S05.E09: Nicole's Story

[aliya]

On 3/3/2017 at 0:58 PM, tpel said:

 Why not give them a food list? If it is on the list you can eat it, if not, don't. Or even pre-planned daily menus with a few choices? True, the more functional patients might benefit from figuring this out for themselves, but for someone like Nicole, it might short-circuit some of her excuses.

He gives them a food list. These WLS centers have all kinds of lists, what not to dos, etc. As we've seen, though, many patients act as if they've never seen the plan he's provided. They are lying. 

[Tabbygirl521]

6 hours ago, Hockeymom said:

 This makes perfect sense. Hearing it strikes such a jarring cord though!

Growing up, my mom was very much into psychology and devoured every self help book, and theory out there. As a result, we were always being dragged to therapy. If I forgot to empty the dishwasher, I was having a "power play" with her. If I got a bad grade, I was "openly rebelling".  If I didn't clean properly, I was "trying to usurp her position and be the woman of the house".

When I was in junior high, I cleaned out my locker and got rid of some notebooks from the beginning of the year. I just didn't realize there would be a final exam and I would need them for review. Really. That was it. I'm sure the teacher mentioned it, but I had Mono that year and missed quite a bit of class time.

Well, when mom found out, I was back on the couch, because it was clear that I was purposely "challenging her authority" and "trying to ruin her life". In her words, " Your F*** You couldn't be any louder."

My point with this, is that when she took us to a new therapist, if he didn't immediately agree with her, she never went back. It was on to the next! One even said, "Why are you here? You have a wonderful daughter." Of course, then, he was a quack who didn't have the intelligence to grasp the severity of my defiance. I can't tell you how many schools I got yanked out of because the guidance counselor challenged her view. 

So, yes, I get the bait and switch. I wish some of my therapists had tried it!

My condolences. Seriously. That sounds so awful. 

[Elizabeth9]

2 hours ago, aliya said:

He gives them a food list. These WLS centers have all kinds of lists, what not to dos, etc. As we've seen, though, many patients act as if they've never seen the plan he's provided. They are lying. 

Like when Nicole acted like she didn't know she had to lose 30 lbs.

[Granny58]

speaking of falling in the hotel room.  You'll recall it was because she tried to hoist herself up onto the bed and it rolled to the side.  Pandemonium set in!!!  I couldn't figure out why she didn't go to the foot of the bed and get on from that end.  It would push against the wall and stay put.  No need for hysterics.  

5 hours ago, hookedontv said:

Nicole was afraid he would turn on the hot water and I was afraid he would drown

I didn't hear her say about burning himself, so that brings up a new level of horror.  If the child had slipped, she COULD have called grandma and retrieved him pretty quickly.  However, if the water heater is set too high and he turned the hot on he could have burned himself severely before anybody got to him.  That happened to my great uncle as a baby and he had permanent disabling damage.  

[GoddessofFolly]

Quote

Is being 600 pounds some kind of class issue? Almost without exception, the people we see each week are living in total or near poverty.

I think the main reason we tend to see people on this show living in poverty is simply because they are the ones who are willing to be on the show.  They wouldn't be able to get this surgery any other way.  The middle class or affluent people I've known who had weight loss surgery had good insurance that covered it before they got to 600lbs or they could pay out of pocket.  They certainly weren't desperate enough to expose themselves taking a shower, and in most cases wouldn't be willing or able to pick up and move to the family to Houston.

[SouthernCross]

I'm assuming they all went to Houston because they were following the one who gets the check. They live marginally in one house I cant imagine supporting two. 

When she was having her chat with the therapist, she whined about how she gets no support.  The screaming, yelling, tension blah blah and how difficult it made life especially for her and mouth breather. 

There is zero situational awareness with this woman. What about the little kids in the middle of all this swearing and screaming and disfunction.  Ya think it might suck for them?

I can only hope with all the assorted professionals and police involved, and with the video evidence that someone will look out for those kids or at least call these people out on their behavior. Those babies are growing up in a worse environment than Nicole did....because in addition to having at the very least, drugs in their home (and likely more) they have 4 bickering idiots, and none of them appear to have a clue how to be a functional adult. 

The whole situation is just disgusting. 

Edited March 7, 2017 by SouthernCross

[MidKid]

This whole episode sent me over the edge. Those poor babies! The toothless grandma/evil witch, the mouth breather BF, the screaming narcissistic "heroine" of the show--my gosh, I couldn't watch and I couldn't NOT watch. The family dynamic is such a mess. WHERE do they find these people??

I have never commented on a show I've watched, but this mess is real and heartbreaking. Also, I  have a daughter who lives in Houston and it's such a miserable climate there. I can honestly see why nobody wants to go "exercise"--still, no excuse.

This show made me feel utterly despondent. I don't see a happy ending to any of this. I doubt there is enough therapy in the world to fix this hot mess.

(I cannot fathom the enablers in these shows. My hubby and kids wouldn't bring me a cold diet coke if I could get up and get it for myself!!)

And I wish CPS could just go take those poor kids (altho Nichole whines incessantly about  how she's living her life for them, yet ignores them and lets them see all the dirt in the family) and get them away from this disaster of a family.

And (shudder) the filthy furniture.......why even bother to MOVE that junk.

[Hockeymom]

5 minutes ago, MidKid said:

And (shudder) the filthy furniture.......why even bother to MOVE that junk.

It was so gross! I would be mortified to have people see I live that way. It has nothing to do with Nicole being fat. There were three other able bodied people living in that house. Wouldn't you do a once-over before the film crew showed up? I actually give Charlie a pass. He had his hands full being at Nicole's beck and call. He may be a dirt ball, but he was an obedient dirt ball. 

[gonecrackers]

Did she really give her kids to the grands to take back to OH??  She talked about how she wanted her kids to have a better life, without the abuse & drug addiction she grew up with, without the negativity & constant yelling, yet she sends them back with the same parents who abused her... what is wrong with this picture?

In the "Supersized" I thought it said her mom was going to try to find a job back in OH, & that she had a background in nursing & childcare. My first reaction is to just shudder in stunned silence. But also, if she's going back to work, supposedly, where will the kids be going?

[Hockeymom]

2 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

In the "Supersized" I thought it said her mom was going to try to find a job back in OH, & that she had a background in nursing & childcare. My first reaction is to just shudder in stunned silence. But also, if she's going back to work, supposedly, where will the kids be going?

 

No one is going to hire a nurse who looks like she just raided the medicine cart.

[SouthernCross]

51 minutes ago, MidKid said:

 

And (shudder) the filthy furniture.......why even bother to MOVE that junk.

Nothing they had was anything that couldn't be found on the curb on bulk trash day.

In fact, the stuff on the curb would probably be cleaner because I can't imagine normal people allowing furniture get to that state of broken/disgusting before tossing it. 

Renting the truck to move that trash didn't seem to be the smartest use of what little resources they had. 

I think this episode bugged me so much because there was a level of viciousness  unsurpassed in previous episodes...yes, even taking Penny into consideration.  Penny was maddening ...but I didn't feel malevolence coming from her like I did from some of these people at times.

All I could see were those two little ones lost in the middle of all that filth and self centeredness.  

Edited March 7, 2017 by SouthernCross

[SouthernCross]

30 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

In the "Supersized" I thought it said her mom was going to try to find a job back in OH, & that she had a background in nursing & childcare.

Well if it hasn't happened yet, I'm thinking that ship sailed as soon as the episode aired. Nobody sane is going to hire her to care for children or patients. 

[AZChristian]

In "reality world," a background in nursing often means she emptied trash cans in a nursing home.  Same for childcare.

[TicketToHellPaid]

The Mom has been unemployed always.  That is why they were homeless when the dad went to prison.

 

If anything, Nursing background could mean that she collects old needles for drugs and insulin.

I doubt the mom can even read.

[Hockeymom]

So let me get this straight, Nicole told her parents they had to leave because they were back on drugs and she didn't want that in her house. Brilliant! Is that a ray of light?

Then she sends her children home with these two scumballs (or one, is the dad still in jail)? Really? Nicole can't be around them, but two babies can? This is the same genius hag who left a baby in the bath tub alone!

I take it back. I don't wish her well. Young and immature is one thing. Sending your kids to a life of hell so you can be a "recording artist" is quite another.

I hope we're wrong.

[Muffyn]

I thought at the end she sent her parents packing and Nicole, Charlie and the kids were staying in Houston.  She presented it as they would act as a family unit now.  She was more mobile and able to care for them (with the minimum level of care they seemed to feel children require).  Can some confirm that she actually sent the kids back to Houston? 

Since we learned in the supersized episode that Daddy dearest was actually in prison, I think it was only toothless Mama that she sent home. 

[DC Gal in VA]

25 minutes ago, Muffyn said:

I thought at the end she sent her parents packing and Nicole, Charlie and the kids were staying in Houston.  She presented it as they would act as a family unit now.  She was more mobile and able to care for them (with the minimum level of care they seemed to feel children require).  Can some confirm that she actually sent the kids back to Houston? 

Since we learned in the supersized episode that Daddy dearest was actually in prison, I think it was only toothless Mama that she sent home. 

Yes, that was my impression too Muffyn. It was during her heart to heart with her mom where Nicole actually did thank her and MIA dad--though I've read here that he was in jail--for all their help but that it would be best if she and Charlie and the kids stayed and the grandparents went back to Ohio. At least that's what I took away from the conversation. I really hope that's the case but if anyone knows anything different, please correct me if I am wrong.

BTW, I tried to find out what the next episode would be but got conflicting information. One site mentioned a woman named Tanisha I think. Another didn't show any episodes beyond Nicole. Anyone know?

[SouthernCross]

Tanisha shows up in my scheduled recordings on Verizon. 

I was under the impression she sent the parents (or whoever wasn't incarcerated at the time) packing.  No idea how they were supposed to go home as they didn't strike me as be able to come up with $10 between the 4 of them.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn they were all still under the same roof. 

[MidKid]

I'm confused--I watched the episode on my Kindle and it was an hour and 25 minutes. It ends with her talking about wanting to do better, having a heart to heart with mom, Dad was MIA (probably back in jail) and no final "closure". I'm still shuddering at the utter filth and poverty they live in, and seem fine with. How did they afford the move and the stay and all the FAST FOOD. Literally, it costs 4xs to eat FF 3 times a day than to buy fresh. In a way, I feel really sorry for Nichole...she's been a dealt a rotten hand, for sure, and she has zero coping skills, whether it be mothering, "partnering" dealing with her emotions and of course, eating. I just can't abide these episodes where the whole dang family is a huge enabling trainwreck. Those "voiceovers" drive me insane. Most of the people who don't do well, just have SO many issues. I know a lot of people who have had this surgery and they have all been motivated and all been successful in losing massive amounts of weight. It kills me to see the resources going to someone who obviously doesn't care. The "meatloaf dinner" bit made me gag. I had MADE meatloaf for dinner, but no way in the world would I stuff it with crackers(?) top it with sugary BBQ sauce AND serve it up with Kraft mac'n cheese AND potatoes. This woman wouldn't know a veggie if it bit her.

 

And I thought Penny from a couple years ago was the worst. Ugh. At least she had Edgar, the world's wimpiest man.

Sheesh, this comment section is bringing out the nasty in me. I really tried to feel some compassion for Nichole, but failed.

[ChristmasJones]

I also thought she sent the mother home and decided to stay with her partner and the kids.

I can't come down as hard on Nicole as I can someone like Penny, and here's why:

She truly has had an atrocious childhood - addict parents, dad in prison, homeless.  These are major, major strikes against anyone.

She is only 23.  Yes, she has two kids. But she is only 23. That is very young in our modern society. This is not the 1950's when most women were married and starting families by that age. So even though Nicole has two children, emotionally and developmentally, due to her upbringing, she is still very much a child.

Her response to the therapist suggesting she write her feelings in a journal. This seems like an obvious thing to most of us, but it appeared to be a revelation to Nicole. And she seemed to take to it. I saw this as another sign of how neglectful her childhood was - she literally doesn't even know any healthy way of expressing her own emotions. The thought that she could write down how she was feeling as a way to cope seemed novel to her.

Back to her age. Given that she is only 23, she hasn't had decades for her negative behavior patterns to become entrenched. So time is on her side.

She strikes me as someone who, if she could stick with therapy, and if her fiance/husband doesn't need her to stay fat in order for them to be happy together, I think could start to turn things around. I think she would really benefit from a weight loss support group. I could see her really taking to the older ladies in that group and relating to them as mother figures (since she essentially has never had a healthy mother/daughter relationship).

of course, she wouldn't be unusual if she is never able to rise above the dysfunction. We wonder how a person like Nicole comes to be that way... and then we see this episode, and we do not wonder why her kids might turn out to be troubled when they are older...  the cycle either continues, or someone at some point decides to break it.

[aliya]

21 hours ago, GoddessofFolly said:

I think the main reason we tend to see people on this show living in poverty is simply because they are the ones who are willing to be on the show.  They wouldn't be able to get this surgery any other way.  The middle class or affluent people I've known who had weight loss surgery had good insurance that covered it before they got to 600lbs or they could pay out of pocket.  They certainly weren't desperate enough to expose themselves taking a shower, and in most cases wouldn't be willing or able to pick up and move to the family to Houston.

Insurance plans are all different, but when I looked into the gastric sleeve, my plan would have paid for everything except for $400 - and I would have taken that out of my flex plan. So yeah, why would I get hosed off on my back patio and drag 10 of my closest relatives with me to Houston? Having a job and some choices makes a big difference.

[brilliantbreakfast]

On 3/1/2017 at 9:10 PM, okerry said:

As an aside: Can anybody explain "chubby chasers?" Nicole's husband certainly is one. Why would men be attracted to this? Usually it's the appearance of youth and health that attracts men. This is the polar opposite. I got nothin'.

And yes, these people have got to be the epitome of white trash. Sorry, but it's true. If nothing else, the way they all treat their kids proves that.

Why does it have to be explained?  To each his own.  To me the only glimmer of light in this story is that this is a guy, however much of a loser he may seem to us, who at least SEEMS to genuinely love this horribly flawed woman.  Obviously he has a strong need to be a caregiver, and I'm sure this has something to do with HIS background (maybe his mother was an invalid, or also morbidly obese) but so what?  It seems to work.  MY late husband would have probably left if I'd been the one who got cancer, because he couldn't deal with it.  So who am I to question?  Now obviously, that he enables her is a sign that his mental health is not all that and (pardon the expression) a bag of chips, but there's got to be a strong bond there for him to hose down her butt.  

[brilliantbreakfast]

On 3/2/2017 at 9:02 AM, Kellyee said:

Is being 600 pounds some kind of class issue? Almost without exception, the people we see each week are living in total or near poverty. They always seem to be in some crappy house or welfare apartment, wearing rags (or just a cheap sheet), and none of them ever seem to have had a decent job EVER. Does the obesity make them poor, or is being poor a risk factor for extreme obesity? Or does this show just always look for the biggest train wrecks?

I think it's obvious that they look for the biggest train wrecks, they make better TV.  But this one touched me more than they usually do...and gave me some more hope, because I do think that around midway through, Nicole was getting a handle on the pain of her upbringing and how she uses food.  She was unloved by her mother, and her father would show his love by giving her treats.  So for her, food = love.  And in her dynamic with Charlie, she demands he show his love by taking her food shopping.   We may not understand why he loves her, and it may be codependent, but it seems to work for them.  Whether it works still if she is able to get down to, say, 300 pounds, is another story and we probably won't find out.  It's no accident that when he gave her a ring, she became more motivated to not have him indulge her food cravings.

Now these people have a car and access to supermarkets.  But in many areas, poverty means no access to healthful foods -- fresh produce, quality meats, etc.  When your only grocery store is a little bodega with a few pieces of wilted produce, and you have no car, and you can send the kids to McDonald's with five bucks and they come home with a burger and fries in their bellies, or if you have no money after the second week of the month and you can put something in your and your kids' bellies for two bucks a head, you're going to go for the burgers and fries.   Add to this that it's hard enough to teach kids that vegetables can be tasty because their friends are growing up on fast food, and there you go, lo unto the generations.

Look at the meal these people ate during the "meat loaf" shot -- meat loaf, mac and cheese, AND mashed potatoes.  It's filling and it's cheap and it's carbo heaven.  And it's comforting.  VERY comforting.  People at this socioeconomic level are raised on salt and sugar and trans fats so that's what they have a taste for.  This is a bigger problem for which weight loss surgery is only addressing a symptom, not a cause.  

[ethalfrida]

The epidemic is not limited to economics and under educated nor just to under achievers. It is world wide and documentary after documentary reveals this. 

[Tabbygirl521]

1 hour ago, ethalfrida said:

The epidemic is not limited to economics and under educated nor just to under achievers. It is world wide and documentary after documentary reveals this. 

I know that's true of obesity, but is it true of supermorbid obesity? 

[ethalfrida]

2 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I know that's true of obesity, but is it true of supermorbid obesity? 

Yes, it is unfortunately and it is a most fascinating subject.

Definition of morbidly obese:  A person with a BMI of 40 to 49.9 is morbidly obeseand an individual with a BMI of 50 or more has super obesity or super morbid obesity, according to a 2009 article published in "Archives of Surgery."Jul 2, 2015...

And this from Britain:  According to figures released last week by the UK’s National Obesity Forum at a parliamentary reception called ‘Obesity: The Real Costs’, more than a million people in the UK have a body mass index of between 40 and 50 – double the 18.5 to 24.9 BMI considered to be healthy. But it’s the new class of super-obese that really has experts worried. There are a staggering 100,000 of them with a BMI of 50 or more. 

Then there is Mumbai where the new epidemic has hit the very, very rich. Individuals can afford to pay for surgery themselves so even extend it to their children.

[brilliantbreakfast]

20 minutes ago, ethalfrida said:

Definition of morbidly obese:  A person with a BMI of 40 to 49.9 is morbidly obeseand an individual with a BMI of 50 or more has super obesity or super morbid obesity, according to a 2009 article published in "Archives of Surgery."Jul 2, 2015...

Sweeping generalization.  My BMI is 40.  My BP last time I had it taken was 106/70.  My LDL is 128, my HDL is 57, and my fasting glucose is 94.  My only health issue is hyperthyroid, which is not weight related.  

Granted, most people at this BMI do have serious health problems.  But there  are always outliers like me.

[ethalfrida]

4 minutes ago, brilliantbreakfast said:

27 minutes ago, ethalfrida said:

Definition of morbidly obese:  A person with a BMI of 40 to 49.9 is morbidly obeseand an individual with a BMI of 50 or more has super obesity or super morbid obesity, according to a 2009 article published in "Archives of Surgery."Jul 2, 2015...

Sweeping generalization.  My BMI is 40.  My BP last time I had it taken was 106/70.  My LDL is 128, my HDL is 57, and my fasting glucose is 94.  My only health issue is hyperthyroid, which is not weight related.  

Granted, most people at this BMI do have serious health problems.  But there  are always outliers like me.

Totally not my definition. I got it from sites I've used in the past. Here is another definition:
What is Super Morbid Obesity?

Here is the link to the original statement I posted earlier:
What is Super Morbid Obesity (defined by Livestrong)

I think the information is only dealing with the definition of the body mass and not potential problems. Good that you don't have any of those.

[Armchair Critic]

On 3/6/2017 at 6:57 PM, Tabbygirl521 said:

Growing up, my mom was very much into psychology and devoured every self help book,

I remember my mom reading 'I'm OK You're OK'. My mom's favorite phrase to say to me was "act like a normal person". One time I came home late and she threatened to put me in the local teen psych ward. The ironic thing is I was a good kid, my mom just always overreacted. They would have laughed her out of the place for having me locked up for coming home late, I wasn't doing drugs or drinking alcohol, just got home late because I was out with friends and we lost track of time.

[aliya]

Just a thought. I actually paid for Sean's story and watched it a few times. I'm watching Nicole's rerun now (or kinda watching). I notice that they frequently say that they crave something. And of course, they give in to the craving.

Now, if I get hungry, I tell myself it's time to eat. I like certain foods, but I don't really think I crave anything. I can't think I've ever told myself, I'm craving a pizza or ice cream; I have to have it now.  I might like to have those foods if I see them in the store or at a buffet, but I can't really say I want them until I see them (lotsa danger there, but let's move on...).   Do people crave stuff out of the blue? I wonder if this craving thing, and giving in to it all of the time, is part of why they get so big. 

I should have been working, but I was thinking about this all day.

[AdorkableWitch]

I am a food addict and compulsive overeater, and while my weight never got to 600 pounds, it has gotten over 400. Watching Nicole, it is humbling and a very "there but the grace of my Gods go I" experience. Her behavior reminds me so much of myself before I decided I needed help.

Being a control freak is incredibly common among those who have any kind of eating disorder. Nicole's discussion about having to cook because no one does it right rang incredibly true for me. I also grew up in an abusive environment similar to Nicole's minus the drugs (our drug of choice was food all around.)

When I was in the food, I can't even begin to describe the insanity regarding food. I can exhibit tremendous willpower, except for food. Sugar and simple starches turn me into a junkie. It's not unlike being a drug addict. I even went through physical withdrawls when I "got off the sugar." I would restrict and restrict and lose weight, but it all came back once something bad happened. I know many of you see it as a character flaw, but having experienced this, I feel it's a disease.

I wish we treated morbid obesity like we treated eating disorders. Nicole could have benefited from an inpatient stay at a facility that deals with eating disorders. Hell, every single patient I have seen on this show would benefit from this. I just lost my outpatient eating disorder clinic (rural area, ran out of money) and I am still trying to figure out what is next in my treatment. I hope Nicole is able to continue therapy and maybe seek out other support like Overeaters Anonymous or a group for those who had bariatric surgery.

[Armchair Critic]

18 minutes ago, aliya said:

Do people crave stuff out of the blue?

I do. Doesn't mean I'll get it because I am not the type to run out and buy it, I make do with what I have at hand. But if I was rich I probably would have somebody fetch it for me. ;)

[ChristmasJones]

There is some research that questions the theory of "food deserts" being connected to obesity.

This is one article from 2012, but if you google "myth of food deserts" you can find more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/health/research/pairing-of-food-deserts-and-obesity-challenged-in-studies.html

Here is one from 2014:

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/food/2014/02/food_deserts_and_fresh_food_access_aren_t_the_problem_poverty_not_obesity.html

"Unfortunately, more fresh food closer to home likely does nothing for folks at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. Obesity levels don’t drop when low-income city neighborhoods have or get grocery stores....

In fact, researchers who focus on health disparities have suspected for decades that people who live in poverty die early because of the stress of poverty itself rather than the poor health choices low-income people make. That’s not to say that poor people don’t make decisions about diet and exercise, but in general they are preoccupied with very different choices than wealthier people are: Should I pay my electricity or my water bill? Can I pay my rent and buy my kid a pair of school shoes? The immediacy of these pressures may make it more difficult to think about how eating choices today will affect health 10 or 20 years from now."

[Maggienolia]

On 3/1/2017 at 8:27 PM, 55Unicorns said:

Her parents don't seem "all there"...

None of them seem all there. I'd bet a year's salary that Charlie (though probably a good-hearted person) is seriously developmentally challenged. Whatever potential her parents had, I'd say the drugs just fried 'em. 

[Elizabeth9]

54 minutes ago, AdorkableWitch said:

I am a food addict and compulsive overeater, and while my weight never got to 600 pounds, it has gotten over 400. Watching Nicole, it is humbling and a very "there but the grace of my Gods go I" experience. Her behavior reminds me so much of myself before I decided I needed help.

Being a control freak is incredibly common among those who have any kind of eating disorder. Nicole's discussion about having to cook because no one does it right rang incredibly true for me. I also grew up in an abusive environment similar to Nicole's minus the drugs (our drug of choice was food all around.)

When I was in the food, I can't even begin to describe the insanity regarding food. I can exhibit tremendous willpower, except for food. Sugar and simple starches turn me into a junkie. It's not unlike being a drug addict. I even went through physical withdrawls when I "got off the sugar." I would restrict and restrict and lose weight, but it all came back once something bad happened. I know many of you see it as a character flaw, but having experienced this, I feel it's a disease.

I wish we treated morbid obesity like we treated eating disorders. Nicole could have benefited from an inpatient stay at a facility that deals with eating disorders. Hell, every single patient I have seen on this show would benefit from this. I just lost my outpatient eating disorder clinic (rural area, ran out of money) and I am still trying to figure out what is next in my treatment. I hope Nicole is able to continue therapy and maybe seek out other support like Overeaters Anonymous or a group for those who had bariatric surgery.

YESSSSSSS I said the same thing in another thread, as an ED sufferer who has undergone treatment twice.  There's only one difference between a bulimic and someone like Nicole.  She needs just as much help.  When she was describing her trip to the grocery store with love and adoration, all I could think was- classic ED behavior.  All emotions deaden or go away...except those involving food (and/or losing weight).  Then the person can become incredibly emotional.  

I think most of these people can benefit from some sort of intensive treatment program.  Every week they show up and see Dr Now.  He tells them to lose weight.   They don't.  Month two- no weight loss.  Go see a therapist.  Month three- what do you know- weight loss????

[agnesnitt]

1 hour ago, aliya said:

Just a thought. I actually paid for Sean's story and watched it a few times. I'm watching Nicole's rerun now (or kinda watching). I notice that they frequently say that they crave something. And of course, they give in to the craving.

Now, if I get hungry, I tell myself it's time to eat. I like certain foods, but I don't really think I crave anything. I can't think I've ever told myself, I'm craving a pizza or ice cream; I have to have it now.  I might like to have those foods if I see them in the store or at a buffet, but I can't really say I want them until I see them (lotsa danger there, but let's move on...).   Do people crave stuff out of the blue? I wonder if this craving thing, and giving in to it all of the time, is part of why they get so big. 

I should have been working, but I was thinking about this all day.

Cravings: yeah, they do come out of the blue. Sometimes it's easy to figure out where they come from (see something on TV or walk past a restaurant). Most of the time, a stray "hmmm, some ice cream would be good right about now" pops up and latches on. For about a month, I had a craving for donuts (I don't even LIKE donuts). I could not stop thinking about them. I've had therapists tell me that cravings go away in a few minutes if you distract yourself. I find this laughable. My cravings generally last for days, and in the case of the donuts, a full month (that turned out to be related to a BC implant--once the implant was removed, the craving went away. I've taken one bite of a donut since then and remembered why I don't like donuts, threw the rest of it away). I distract myself, I do work, I take a nap, but it pops back up. Sometimes, having whatever I'm craving ends the craving (chocolate cravings are easy for me to manage--a square or two of good chocolate and I'm set). Sometimes, it sets off a craving spiral for days. Generally, though, the faster I give in, the faster the craving goes away. But that's led me to being 100 pounds overweight.

My brother and I once had a conversation that went something like this:

Him: I'm hungry, are you?

Me: No, I'm not, but I want something to eat.

Him: What's the difference?

For him,  "being hungry" and "wanting food" are synonyms. For me, they're two totally different experiences. They're not quite antonyms, but they are distinct, and the rarely go hand in hand.

[Armchair Critic]

2 hours ago, agnesnitt said:

For him,  "being hungry" and "wanting food" are synonyms. For me, they're two totally different experiences.

I call it "eating for sport" when you want food but aren't hungry.

[steff13]

On ‎3‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 10:12 PM, fonfereksglen said:

But you don't go to the top of the line.  And Houston bore the brunt of the refugees from NOLA.  

WIC is far more important to this family.  A benefit I doubt they take full or any advantage of because ................. just because.  Look at the WIC limitations in food options.  Nobody in that family cares a rat's ass about those two little ones who  are already way too heavy.  Yet I continue to read posts about how mommy needs to care for herself or find herself or whatever.  Must be some of her juggalo buddies posting here.  

You can get WIC and Food Assistance (SNAP/Food Stamps) both.  WIC restricts what you can purchase, but Food Assistance doesn't.  Or, doesn't to the extent WIC does.  You can get chips, candy, cookies, etc., on Food Assistance.  The gross income standard for Food Assistance is 130% of the FPL.  For Nicole, Charlie, and the two kids, the gross monthly income standard would be $2633.  He could work 40 hours a week at $15 per hour and be under that (40 hours per week x $15 PH = $600 x 4.3 = $2580).  $15 an hour is an above average wage for that area, so it's like he's earning less than that.

[brilliantbreakfast]

11 hours ago, ChristmasJones said:

There is some research that questions the theory of "food deserts" being connected to obesity.

This is one article from 2012, but if you google "myth of food deserts" you can find more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/health/research/pairing-of-food-deserts-and-obesity-challenged-in-studies.html

Here is one from 2014:

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/food/2014/02/food_deserts_and_fresh_food_access_aren_t_the_problem_poverty_not_obesity.html

"Unfortunately, more fresh food closer to home likely does nothing for folks at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. Obesity levels don’t drop when low-income city neighborhoods have or get grocery stores....

In fact, researchers who focus on health disparities have suspected for decades that people who live in poverty die early because of the stress of poverty itself rather than the poor health choices low-income people make. That’s not to say that poor people don’t make decisions about diet and exercise, but in general they are preoccupied with very different choices than wealthier people are: Should I pay my electricity or my water bill? Can I pay my rent and buy my kid a pair of school shoes? The immediacy of these pressures may make it more difficult to think about how eating choices today will affect health 10 or 20 years from now."

Well, there is also the question of learned behaviors.  You can plunk a Publix in Podunk, but it's not going to change what people have been doing for years.  But you bring up a good point, and that is the STRESS of being poor.  Stress is the 800-lb. (pun intended) gorilla of the whole obesity discussion, and it's the one no one wants to face, because all of U.S. culture is built around stress, and not just that of the poor.  

Yes, people like me fight this battle because our Depression-era mothers felt deprived of meat in their childhoods and so they would put two shoulder lamb chops on a child's plate so the child grew up thinking this was how much meat she needed.  Never mind that said mother withheld sweets and treats from her children and forbade them to have any while she would sit up at night with a spoon and a half-gallon of Breyers.  

But stress DOES have an effect on the body and makes it store fat for what it thinks is the famine to come.  There are the stresses of being poor -- juggling multiple minimum-wage jobs, child care, crime, etc....but if you are in the middle classes there is the stress of the white collar workplace as well.  There's this sense that if we don't work 80 hours a week we'll be the first to be let go when the offshoring happens, the office politics, the insane requirements of today's workplace in the service of stock price and CEO compensation.  It's very easy to point at fat people, but we need to look at other factors in American life as well.

[Elizabeth9]

Being overworked is another problem, I suppose in both social classes (middle and low).  Low income people often work several jobs because one ain't paying the bills anyway, and these jobs don't want to give anyone 40 hours a week- so they string together an existence on 2 or 3 part-time jobs (often exacerbated because of the time it takes to bus it in between jobs).  And middle class people (me) also often work more than one job, or they're on salary and that means they have to work however long it takes to get something done.

At the end of the day, it means less cooking, more fast/processed foods and less exercise.

[TicketToHellPaid]

Anyone else wonder if and how she bathed after leaving her beautiful porch outdoor shower at home? 

 

I will never ever look at a hotel pool the same again, I'm sure her old poop in the rolls is floating in every pool she bathed in.

 

To clear things up, the parent's did not take the kids back to Ohio.  Nicole and her #1 Jugg were supposedly going to stay in Houston as a family and the mom and dad were to movebto Houston after the lease on the drug den ran out.

I suspect they are all still living together in Houston.

[TurtlePower]

3 hours ago, brilliantbreakfast said:

Well, there is also the question of learned behaviors.  You can plunk a Publix in Podunk, but it's not going to change what people have been doing for years.  But you bring up a good point, and that is the STRESS of being poor.  Stress is the 800-lb. (pun intended) gorilla of the whole obesity discussion, and it's the one no one wants to face, because all of U.S. culture is built around stress, and not just that of the poor.  

Yes, people like me fight this battle because our Depression-era mothers felt deprived of meat in their childhoods and so they would put two shoulder lamb chops on a child's plate so the child grew up thinking this was how much meat she needed.  Never mind that said mother withheld sweets and treats from her children and forbade them to have any while she would sit up at night with a spoon and a half-gallon of Breyers.  

But stress DOES have an effect on the body and makes it store fat for what it thinks is the famine to come.  There are the stresses of being poor -- juggling multiple minimum-wage jobs, child care, crime, etc....but if you are in the middle classes there is the stress of the white collar workplace as well.  There's this sense that if we don't work 80 hours a week we'll be the first to be let go when the offshoring happens, the office politics, the insane requirements of today's workplace in the service of stock price and CEO compensation.  It's very easy to point at fat people, but we need to look at other factors in American life as well.

I used to laugh at people who claimed stress in the office. I always thought that if no one was shot and bleeding out on the ground, then things were fine (and I still do to an extent). But between graduating college and the agency I work for now, I had to work in an office for a few months and there definitely are stressors there--most are unnecessary stressors, but they're there. I was taken aback at what people were "stressing" over and wound up quitting that shit show after a few months.

And as far as access to fresh food/obesity/poverty, even when presented with free, fresh food, many poor families don't want it. They want hotdogs and Spam (my dad managed a food bank/community garden). My dad would come home with heaps of vegetables that nobody wanted. There were exceptions--many Hmong families who came to the food bank DID want vegetables because that's what they like to eat, so there's a cultural component as well. There were some very poor Hmong families who were not overweight at all. 

[ChristmasJones]

Serious social problems such as the obesity we see on this program are multifactorial.  There is not single silver bullet to explain it.  I think its a human tendency to want simple answers to complex problems. We all fall into that trap. But we do better when we acknowledge that for a person to get to 600 lbs, many factors had to come into play to make that possible. Those factors influence each other as well. 

There is research that shows that food costs began decreasing in the US in the 70's due to government policies. This led, gradually over the next few decades, to the extensive fast food we have now, widespread snacking, etc. If you take a person who was genetically predisposed to gain weight/have a larger body, and put them in an environment where its easy to get lots of calories, you end up with obesity (this research article explains that).  Then you take someone like that who also has mental health problems, who suffered abuse and trauma in their childhood, who had no role models for eating healthy food, has genetic predispositions toward addiction, etc... and its really not too difficult to see how there can be folks like the ones on this show.

Here is an interesting article about how the stress of being in poverty causes people to make bad decisions that focus on the short-term rather than the long term. Its not about obesity, but going back to the idea that there are many factors leading to obesity, it adds another layer to understanding how people get trapped in patterns of poor decision making.

[ShoePrincess]

My first post on this particular forum. I watch this show on Wednesday nights as an incentive to get to the gym early on Thursday mornings for a workout with my trainer. I've had my own issues with weight and turning to food for comfort, but I've managed to lose 50# and keep them off for several years.

Nicole's episode was the most horrifying for me. I've seen some of the same pathologies in my own family (in-laws, actually) -- the lack of education, neglect, abuse, drugs, anger, poverty, the any man is better than no man mantra for the females, etc. No one has reached that level of obesity, but there's plenty of overweight and poor relationships with food.

However, I did find one moment of levity, and I hope you will make some room in the handbasket to hell for a newbie. When Charlie sais his jaw dropped when he first saw Nicole, all I could think was ...

and it's been that way ever since.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[TicketToHellPaid]

57 minutes ago, ShoePrincess said:

My first post on this particular forum. I watch this show on Wednesday nights as an incentive to get to the gym early on Thursday mornings for a workout with my trainer. I've had my own issues with weight and turning to food for comfort, but I've managed to lose 50# and keep them off for several years.

Nicole's episode was the most horrifying for me. I've seen some of the same pathologies in my own family (in-laws, actually) -- the lack of education, neglect, abuse, drugs, anger, poverty, the any man is better than no man mantra for the females, etc. No one has reached that level of obesity, but there's plenty of overweight and poor relationships with food.

However, I did find one moment of levity, and I hope you will make some room in the handbasket to hell for a newbie. When Charlie sais his jaw dropped when he first saw Nicole, all I could think was ...

and it's been that way ever since.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Stop pretending to be like Nicole..wanna be! Lol 

jk, you sound educated so I couldn't resist,

This family was really the depths of things I shouldn't post.

 

I will admit to watching it several times now just to make sure I saw it right.  oh boy.  

 

Q, did the car have air conditioning? Or was the ac Nicole referenced when throwing her sandwich the windows being rolled down?

They had 2-4 cats in the car, 2 filthy dirty kids who were in some hillbilly coma and "needed their asses changed", A driver that looked like walking BO and a fatty that hadn't been hosed down, literally, in days.

The smell..ugh..the smell

oh ya, Charlie was smoking some brown things too.

[TicketToHellPaid]

On 3/6/2017 at 7:38 PM, GoddessofFolly said:

I think the main reason we tend to see people on this show living in poverty is simply because they are the ones who are willing to be on the show.  They wouldn't be able to get this surgery any other way.  The middle class or affluent people I've known who had weight loss surgery had good insurance that covered it before they got to 600lbs or they could pay out of pocket.  They certainly weren't desperate enough to expose themselves taking a shower, and in most cases wouldn't be willing or able to pick up and move to the family to Houston.

I disagree to a degree.

People that are well off tend to be thin and fit.

Come to Ca, anyone that grew up on the coast of SoCal or NorCal are not fat and come from homes with money. 

Inlanders as we snotty people call the rest are fat and ugly.  

It's money and beaches and cute clothes and plastic surgery when wanted and education! We know what to eat and not to eat.

If you don't believe me come to a southern CA beach, locals are playing in the ocean and eating fruit and drinking water, inlanders..the fat and ugly losers..are sitting with bags of chips and soda.

ugh, disgusting people. Should stay home. Always.

[Hockeymom]

37 minutes ago, TicketToHellPaid said:

inlanders..the fat and ugly losers..are sitting with bags of chips and soda.

ugh, disgusting people. Should stay home. Always.

Ouch

[crazycatlady58]

Good to  know, I will keep  my fat ugly self in Texas  where people  are not quite  so judgmental. 

[Brooklynista]

1 hour ago, TicketToHellPaid said:

I disagree to a degree.

People that are well off tend to be thin and fit.

Come to Ca, anyone that grew up on the coast of SoCal or NorCal are not fat and come from homes with money. 

Inlanders as we snotty people call the rest are fat and ugly.  

It's money and beaches and cute clothes and plastic surgery when wanted and education! We know what to eat and not to eat.

If you don't believe me come to a southern CA beach, locals are playing in the ocean and eating fruit and drinking water, inlanders..the fat and ugly losers..are sitting with bags of chips and soda.

ugh, disgusting people. Should stay home. Always.

I'm a bit of an asshole so this literally has me in tears. But again, I'm a bit of a dick and I look down on others.

[SouthernCross]

1 hour ago, TicketToHellPaid said:

Q, did the car have air conditioning? Or was the ac Nicole referenced when throwing her sandwich the windows being rolled down?

They had 2-4 cats in the car, 2 filthy dirty kids who were in some hillbilly coma and "needed their asses changed", A driver that looked like walking BO and a fatty that hadn't been hosed down, literally, in days.

The smell..ugh..the smell

oh ya, Charlie was smoking some brown things too.

....a succinct summary of 20+ minutes of airtime. 

BTW...I believe she was squawking that the cats needed AC (which it would appear consisted of rolling the windows down).