S07.E11: Hostiles and Calamities

[ganesh]

5 minutes ago, ElleMo said:

Anyway, Eugene mentioned having several PhDs and being part of the Human Genome Project.  So that makes people think Medical doctor.

Aside from the fact that I would have called BS on having multiple PhDs, I didn't think medical doctor. There's plenty of biological science related PhDs that people would have who worked on the project. Which is why I thought it was weird that Negan was pointing out Eugene as the new doctor. I would concede that it's reasonable of Negan to jump to the conclusion that Eugene meant MD. This could be a flaw in Eugene's plan though, if in fact he can't perform as a doctor. 

Just say engineering. People will just think you know how to fix things. 

[Portia]

Jeez, that was some boring shit.

[ElleMo]

I guess I wasn't paying attention to the episode when Darryl escaped.  Did we know that Sherry had anything to do with his escape? I thought it was just Jesus involved.  So I guess Jesus worked with Sherry to get Darryl out?  Do we know how she escaped the compound?  Was she with Darryl and Jesus when they first escaped?   Did any of this happen on screen?

Edited March 1, 2017 by ElleMo

[Raven1707]

The Sunday Cable ratings are in for "Hostiles and Calamities":

"The Walking Dead” took a bit of a ratings hit Sunday — not surprising since it was airing opposite the Oscars. The show nonetheless easily maintained its clear No. 1 status on cable.

Sunday’s episode earned a 4.9 rating in adults 18-49 and 10.42 million viewers, down from 5.3 and 11.08 million the previous week. [10.423 million]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/sunday-cable-ratings-feb-26-2017/

Here are the Live + Same Day ratings for Season 7 so far:

10-23-16 “The Day Will Come When You Won’t Be” 17.029 million
10-30-16 “The Well” 12.455 million
11-06-16 “The Cell” 11.721 million
11-13-16 “Service” 11.402 million
11-20-16 “Go Getters” 10.996 million
11-27-16 “Swear” 10.403 million
12-04-16 “Sing Me a Song” 10.481 million
12-11-16 “Hearts Still Beating” 10.583 million

02-12-17 “Rock in the Road” 11.996 million
02-19-17 “New Best Friends” 11.075 million
02-26-17 “Hostiles and Calamities” 10.423 million

I wonder how much of that drop is actually attributable to the Academy Awards...

[TigerLynx]

2 hours ago, HighMaintenance said:

I get the feeling that Eugene is getting the lay of the land at the Sanctuary.  He's got to play along to survive - and he has to survive to be able to ever see his "family", CDB again.  Sure, he's socially awkward and nerdy, but I believe he thinks pretty quickly on his feet.  So far, the Negans haven't asked him to do anything detrimental to CDB or anyone else - however that will probably come as the top Negan constantly needs reassurance that his people are willing to do anything for him.

If Eugene is trying to figure out Negan, the Saviors, how many there are, their weak points, etc., then it's the first smart thing these people have done in years.

Something I've noticed about Jesus, guy at the Kingdom who wants to go to war (can't remember his name) with Negan and tried to get Daryl in on his scheme, Gregory at Hilltop, etc., is they keep wanting to drag someone else into their scheme, or get them to lead, handle things, etc.

Rick and Co. went to Hilltop with Jesus because he said the people there were open to trade.  That's when the whole let's take out the Saviors outpost began, and fools that they were they didn't bother to ascertain if those were the only Saviors and if that was their only location.

All these guys who want to go to battle with the, "Hey just join us, do such and such, it will work out great, we will kill the bad guys, I have the perfect plan," have me rolling my eyes.  If their plan is so great, why do they need someone else to implement it?  Answer, they need someone else to do the killing, the dying or both.

I don't understand how Negan keeps control of all those people unless there are several other Negan henchmen with lots of weapons that haven't been shown on screen yet.

[Dakisela]

3 hours ago, HighMaintenance said:

I get the feeling that Eugene is getting the lay of the land at the Sanctuary.  He's got to play along to survive - and he has to survive to be able to ever see his "family", CDB again.  Sure, he's socially awkward and nerdy, but I believe he thinks pretty quickly on his feet.  So far, the Negans haven't asked him to do anything detrimental to CDB or anyone else - however that will probably come as the top Negan constantly needs reassurance that his people are willing to do anything for him.

Now as far as the Saviors overall: why would anyone willingly want to be a part of this group?  The only ones eating well and having a good time are the upper 25, who seem to be the bullies, sadists and assholes.  Everyone else is paying points for pickles and looking like they live in a dumpster and attend face brandings on a regular basis.  Hell, even if you try to leave and make it on your own, you're hunted down and brought back and maimed or killed.

As far as the show overall:  an ever shrinking part of me hopes that something interesting or exciting will happen on this series.  I personally hate watch more than for enjoyment - because it's a one note show.  Glimmer of hope for the future, destruction of that glimmer of hope.  Lather, Rinse, Repeat...  Our favorite characters are no longer interesting, the walkers are no longer a viable threat, other groups are either the biggest evil that ever eviled, or are just ignorant/quirky due to their isolation from the rest of society.  CDBs arrival at Alexandria is when the story became tedious, for me.

OK, I'm sorry, can someone remind us what CDB means?????

[Bishop]

On 2/26/2017 at 10:23 PM, Raven1707 said:

I am so incredibly tired of Negan's scenery-chewing act.

I actually thought he was toned down quite a bit this episode.  I think the writers realized their mistake in the last few episodes in the first half of the season.  JD was still his smiley self as Negan, but I didn't find it over-the-top like he had been written in the beginning.  I also thought Negan was downright scary when Eugene opened the door, and Negan was there with his bat but without a smile or a smirk on his face at all.   Negan was much more palatable this episode than the last few, imo, but at the same time, I can't understand how/why the Saviors haven't taken him out yet.  Then again, the Sanctuary has really evolved into a world of take-what-you-can-for-as-long-as-you-can mentality.  I think if Negan were killed, another Savior would simply rise up and take over as the new asshole.  Rick's "rule" is based on love and devotion to those he leads whereas Negan rules by fear and intimidation.  It's why everyone wants to kill him and others want to join Rick and his group.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Bishop

[ghoulina]

2 hours ago, ElleMo said:

 

I guess I wasn't paying attention to the episode when Darryl escaped.  Did we know that Sherry had anything to do with his escape? I thought it was just Jesus involved.  So I guess Jesus worked with Sherry to get Darryl out?  Do we know how she escaped the compound?  Was she with Darryl and Jesus when they first escaped?   Did any of this happen on screen?

 

Sherry was the one who let him out. Negan was gone, at ASZ. Sherry must have unlocked the door and she slipped a note under it telling him to go. Jesus had nothing to do with it. 

[ElleMo]

2 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Sherry was the one who let him out. Negan was gone, at ASZ. Sherry must have unlocked the door and she slipped a note under it telling him to go. Jesus had nothing to do with it. 

 

So Jesus and Darryl just happened to run into each other?

[TVJunkee]

1 hour ago, Dakisela said:

OK, I'm sorry, can someone remind us what CDB means?????

Camp Dinner Bell.  The original name for the group when they were making lots of noise at the quarry and drawing the walkers to them.

[nodorothyparker]

Yep, Daryl and Jesus just happened to run into each other outside after Daryl had beaten Fat Joey to death.  Jesus was apparently loitering unnoticed the entire time Negan was playing tour guide to Carl after their stowaway mission.  We've still never seen a single character call Jesus on how he seems to be all these places and know all these people but never felt compelled to share any of that information until it became convenient for him to do so.

[heisenberg]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Given what has occurred since then, Eugene probably should of told Rosita to fuck off and not made the bullet. 

 

In his own way, Eugene is more brave than the rest of them, simply because of his ability survive and battle through that weakness.  His weakness is what is currently keeping him alive.  In Nagen's eyes, Eugene is already broken, there was no point in giving him the Daryl treatment.

There are far more Eugene's in the ZA, than alpha males.  Eugene has to manipulate when he has to, and lay low when he has to, in order to survive.  He is probably the most dangerous person that Nagen has to deal with.  Nagen is too arrogant to know it.

I agree with you and this is why I find Eugene so interesting to follow.

I can transpose the situation in real life to complete what you are saying.  I used to work at a place where the boss was stiff,  I was always rushing, doing overtime, redoing work from others, etc...  Meanwhile some others were constantly complaining or crying about their conditions, their difficulties, about how hard it was, (Playing violin finally).  on the long run I am the one who is not there anymore while they are still working there...  My bad.

 

But something else is bothering me and it is why I think Eugene is one of the most stable emotionaly of them all. 

Brain and science. 

All of those apocalyptic shows have something in common.  They fight to gather ressources like ants, rats or squirrels and this is so dumb!   The technology around them is not gone,  they can use it, they can reconstruct or repair everything with a little learning,  but no...

It is better to fight over a can of beans.   In this serie only Eugene seems willing to do something "technical".  

Edited March 1, 2017 by heisenberg

[ByTor]

3 hours ago, ElleMo said:

 Often the surgeon was also the barber and dentist (which back then meant tooth extractions).  

I would like a knee replacement, along with a haircut :)

[Dodginblue]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

 Barney Fife is more competent than Rick. 

I am surprised that some of the members of the group haven't taken a long look at Rick, since he seems in no hurry to get Eugene back.  It is abundantly clear that Rick cares more about the original little group than he does about Eugene.  There definitely seems to be a pecking order.

I think the last thing Eugene would need right now is Rick mounting a rescue attempt.  I think Rick is competent within his core skill set, which thanks to the early episodes we know more about who he was pre-ZA than a lot of the other characters.  He's good with weapons, he has a lot of physical courage and he will make decisions quickly and act on them with whatever information is at hand.   He's an operator, not a strategist.  

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

We've still never seen a single character call Jesus on how he seems to be all these places and know all these people but never felt compelled to share any of that information until it became convenient for him to do so.

Exactly.  Which is why I've never trusted the ninja weasel.

[Raven1707]

From the Cable Top 25:

“The Walking Dead” declined some opposite the Oscars on Feb. 26, but here’s how dominant it still is on cable:

In adults 18-49, the show’s 4.9 rating was 2.9 times higher than that of the second-place show, “Talking Dead” at 1.7.

In viewers, “The Walking Dead’s” 10.42 million was 2 1/2 times greater than the second-place show — the Thursday edition of “The O’Reilly Factor” at 4.16 million.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/weekly-ratings/cable-top-25-for-feb-20-26-2017/

[oakville]

On 2/27/2017 at 6:26 PM, Dobian said:

I'm pretty sure that this is my final season watching the show, so I am going to enjoy these last five episodes for what they're worth and reminisce about how cool this show used to be.  The writing for both Negan and the Saviors has been awful, and the wacky communities in this post-ZA world make no sense.  The show is too much cast of thousands, which is compounded by the fact that they keep giving feature episodes to lesser characters like Tara and Eugene while major characters like Carol and Maggie are hardly ever seen.  That, plus the character writing in general on this show sucks.  It's almost like they go out of their way to make even the CDB people as uninteresting and un-compelling as possible.  I just don't care about them anymore like I did back in season 4.  If they defeat the Saviors in the finale, I will consider the story over.  How these different factions rebuild civilization doesn't really matter to me.  This is a great jumping-off point.

I agree. I haven't watched the last 3 episodes but am following the show through this forum. I can't stand Negan. His antics are ridiculous. His group should have been able to take over a shopping center & get whatever they wanted . Furthermore, they could have gone to a library & figured out how to start farming & raising livestock.

[Raven1707]

Random thoughts:

• Negan knows there's a doctor at the Hilltop, so why worry about a vacancy at the misnamed Sanctuary?
• Very little time has passed since Eugene was taken from Alexandria, so how much time has Rick had to "rescue" him?
• Given that a successful rescue of Eugene would require weapons and reinforcements, doesn't it make sense that Rick & the others would need to (a) find weapons, and (b) enlist reinforcements? (The Internet is down, after all.)
• This episode was written by David Leslie Johnson, who also wrote Episode 706, "Swear" which featured Tara. I can't find any other episodes credited to him, so is this a case of giving the new guy the less interesting episodes to write, or are the episodes less interesting because the new guy wrote them? 
• Found his bio on IMDb:   David Leslie Johnson was raised in Mansfield, Ohio. He developed an early interest in storytelling and began writing plays in the second grade. He attended The Ohio State University in Columbus, Ohio, and graduated with a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree in Photography and Cinema.  Not long after, he found himself back in his hometown working as a production assistant on The Shawshank Redemption, which was filmed on location at the historic Mansfield Reformatory, where Johnson's great-grandfather had been a prison guard. He spent the next five years as assistant to Frank Darabont, the film's Academy Award-nominated director and writer.

• Is it a small world after all?

Edited March 2, 2017 by Raven1707
Format issues

[TigerLynx]

53 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Exactly.  Which is why I've never trusted the ninja weasel.

LMAO!  That's it from now on Jesus is ninja weasel.

2 hours ago, heisenberg said:

It is better to fight over a can of beans.   In this serie only Eugene seems willing to do something "technical".  

Since the technology is still there, and there are ways to learn to operate it, it baffles me that so many of these people run around doing nothing but destroying stuff.

The idiot garbage people actually waited around for someone else to come along and get the supplies from the boat because they don't bother or barter or whatever, they take.  {face palm}  Eventually, there will be nothing left to take.

Something else that apparently hasn't dawned on Negan and the Saviors when they are beating people to death with baseball bats, burning their faces off, and throwing them in ovens to die, is humans have also become a scarce resource (or that was the original premise of the show before all these other groups started popping up out of nowhere).  If they are actually going to rebuild a livable society, not simply just survive waiting for Negan to bash their heads in, they need people who can actually do useful things.  That is one thing the Kingdom has going for it.  They seem to be trying to rebuild, and move forward.

Edited March 2, 2017 by TigerLynx

[oakville]

11 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

LMAO!  That's it from now on Jesus is ninja weasel.

Since the technology is still there, and there are ways to learn to operate it, it baffles me that so many of these people run around doing nothing but destroying stuff.

The idiot garbage people actually waited around for someone else to come along and get the supplies from the boat because they don't bother or barter or whatever, they take.  {face palm}  Eventually, there will be nothing left to take.

Something else that apparently hasn't dawned on Negan and the Saviors when they are beating people to death with baseball bats, burning their faces off, and throwing them in ovens to die, is humans have also become a scarce resource (or that was the original premise of the show before all these other groups started popping up out of nowhere).  If they are actually going to rebuild a livable society, not simply just survive waiting for Negan to bash their heads in, they need people who can actually do useful things.  That is one thing the Kingdom has going for it.  They seem to be trying to rebuild, and move forward.

I think it would be an interesting show on to focus on rebuilding society like Survivors,  the British TV show from the 1970's. However, don't they have to follow whatever is in the Comic Books? Isn't this why we have a cartoon villain like Negan?

It was an idiotic move by Negan to kill the Doctor.

[SnarkyTart]

3 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Yep, Daryl and Jesus just happened to run into each other outside after Daryl had beaten Fat Joey to death.  Jesus was apparently loitering unnoticed the entire time Negan was playing tour guide to Carl after their stowaway mission.  We've still never seen a single character call Jesus on how he seems to be all these places and know all these people but never felt compelled to share any of that information until it became convenient for him to do so.

Jesus is one of the biggest plot holes in the show, imo.  We don't know where he came from, how he knows of all the different survivor groups, and we really don't know of any reason whatsoever why he's even on this show. 

[ByTor]

8 hours ago, ganesh said:

Are these people watching the same show?

Right?  Especially this little gem:

Quote

while we can pretend that we’re upset about the cruelty of his leadership, his greatest sin is opposing Rick.

 

I'm certainly upset about the cruelty of his leadership, he & his group are pieces of shit to the Hilltop & the Kingdom.  Didn't the Negans murder the Ocean women's men?  The only "pretending" I see is that his greatest sin is opposing Rick!

Edited March 2, 2017 by ByTor

[Mu Shu]

3 hours ago, ByTor said:

I would like a knee replacement, along with a haircut :)

Get a haircut, and get a real job.

my view is that Eugene is topping from the bottom.  He did it with Abe for a minute, and now he's doing it with Negan.  He's good at letting people underestimate him and using that to his advantage.  However, this episode was tiresome, and he didn't connect with the Savior actors at all, IMO.  Probably no one would, their lair and overall vibe with all the broke down serfs sucks balls. 

[spiderpig]

1 hour ago, Raven1707 said:

 

• This episode was written by David Leslie Johnson, who also wrote Episode 706, "Swear" which featured Tara. I can't find any other episodes credited to him, so is this a case of giving the new guy the less interesting episodes to write, or are the episodes less interesting because the new guy wrote them? 

Very interesting point.  Both eps meandered all over the place, leaving audiences (well, me) confused.  To feature a completely uninteresting character like Tara in one, and then render a previously interesting personality (Eugene) boring, causes me to wonder what somebody else might have been able to do with the material.

Come on, show - I've been with you since Day One, but lately it's requiring a lot of effort.

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, TigerLynx said:

If they are actually going to rebuild a livable society, not simply just survive waiting for Negan to bash their heads in, they need people who can actually do useful things.  That is one thing the Kingdom has going for it.  They seem to be trying to rebuild, and move forward.

This is the fundamental limitations of TPTBs. They seem to think that the collapse of society leads to total savagery in less than 3 years, so all we see are the same people over and over. 

I don't know if they know what the show is that they have. We have weird 90 minute episodes that go nowhere mostly. It's so uneven.

This actually isn't a bad episode on its own, minus the huge interlude with Dwight reading a letter. We found out Eugene is playing it cool and being smart by biding his time. He formed an alliance with Dwight. And Negan is in fact as dumb as we thought he was. 

[Nashville]

13 hours ago, kia112 said:

I don't think I can buy that. They treated him like a coward because he lied to them and put them in danger by trying to get them up to D.C. Because that's cowardly. And I don't even know that all of them treated him like a coward; it was mostly Abraham and Rosita that were super salty to him. Understandable, because they were with him the longest. For the most part, they just let him be, shaking their head at his Eugene-isms, living their lives and still protected him when need-be. When Eugene decided he wanted to step up, give advice, show them he could do stuff, they were always appreciative (if a little wary, because of the, you know, lying). Let me know if I'm misremembering. 

I can go along with a large chunk of that.  Eugene has made a post-ZA career out of trying to get maximum credit for minimal expenditure of effort.  Given that consideration, I think CDB has walked the walk in generosity to Eugene, even if their talk hasn't been so sweet.

 

9 hours ago, Dakisela said:

OK, I'm sorry, can someone remind us what CDB means?????

The answer to this and other exciting questions of a similar nature may be found in this thread.  :)

[AngelaHunter]

19 hours ago, HighMaintenance said:

I get the feeling that Eugene is getting the lay of the land at the Sanctuary.  He's got to play along to survive - and he has to survive to be able to ever see his "family", CDB again.

I never saw CDB as "his" family. The only people with whom he seemed to have a relationship of any kind was Abe and Rosita. Abe blew hot and cold with him and I don't recall Rosita speaking to him without a sneer in her voice. Not saying anyone else had a reason to be buddies with him, but I don't think he would have any special alligiance to any of them. Of course I could be dead wrong and he could be plotting some great coup to dispatch Negan, and hightail it back to Alexandria. Or maybe he should try the Kingdom. At least they know how to feed themselves.

[Lady Iris]

16 hours ago, heisenberg said:

It is better to fight over a can of beans.   In this serie only Eugene seems willing to do something "technical".  

Hee! on the can of beans! I've thought the same thing myself. Unless all the brainy people have been eaten where are they?

[qtpye]

I think Eugene is working something from the inside and will die a violent death in the finale to help Rick's group.  This is pure speculation on my part, so I am not spoiler tagging it.  Eugene was born a cowherd, but will die a hero.

It will be too bad...he really could have done something with a traveling Mr. Wizard show.

[ByTor]

15 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Exactly.  Which is why I've never trusted the ninja weasel.

Hmmmm....are you thinking what I'm thinking?  It's been in the back of my mind for a while that he's actually working for Negan by infiltrating other groups, but then I think nah, they'll never do that.  Besides, he's too hot to be bad :)

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, ByTor said:

Hmmmm....are you thinking what I'm thinking?  It's been in the back of my mind for a while that he's actually working for Negan by infiltrating other groups, but then I think nah, they'll never do that.  Besides, he's too hot to be bad :)

I've never read the comics so I don't know if he's working for Negan, but there has always been something secretive and mysterious about him.  So yeah, he could very well be working for Negan.

[AngelaHunter]

13 hours ago, ganesh said:

This actually isn't a bad episode on its own, minus the huge interlude with Dwight reading a letter.

Who is he paying off, that we continually get huge and silent interludes focused on him? The whole on the road with the bike thing, him standing outside staring at the fence walker for what seemed an hour, and now this meandering down Memory Lane - all of which (IMO) were totally pointless. Each time I expected Something to Happen, and absolutely nothing did. With the huge cast they have, they really feel it's important to point the camera at silent Dwight - of all people -  for large chunks of time? The writers really feel this is a good use for the little bit of showtime squeezed in between commercials? Seriously?

[Ohwell]

12 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Who is he paying off, that we continually get huge and silent interludes focused on him? The whole on the road with the bike thing, him standing outside staring at the fence walker for what seemed an hour, and now this meandering down Memory Lane - all of which (IMO) were totally pointless. Each time I expected Something to Happen, and absolutely nothing did. With the huge cast they have, they really feel it's important to point the camera at silent Dwight - of all people -  for large chunks of time? The writers really feel this is a good use for the little bit of showtime squeezed in between commercials? Seriously?

Not to mention that opening montage a couple episodes back where he's making a sandwich.  I just don't get it.

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, ByTor said:

16 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Exactly.  Which is why I've never trusted the ninja weasel.

Hmmmm....are you thinking what I'm thinking?  It's been in the back of my mind for a while that he's actually working for Negan by infiltrating other groups, but then I think nah, they'll never do that.  Besides, he's too hot to be bad :)

What if Jesus is actually Negan's secret son?  That could be why they are called the Saviors.

We have traveled through the looking glass, people.

Edited March 2, 2017 by qtpye

[Jel]

Eugene himself admits he's a coward. Being cowardly is intolerable to Rosita and Abraham, but Abe lightened up about that towards the end. There were times when both Abraham and Rosita treated Eugene like crap, and Rosita was still doing it right up to the end.  Not so much the others.

I'll take a sec to point out that Eugene is not 100% cowardly though -- he was very afraid of Negan, but he did admit to having made the bullet. Despite his fear, he did it anyway. That is courage.  He also, on the long road to Negan, offered to act as decoy for the group by driving the RV himself so the others could escape. Despite the fact that the plan failed, the act itself was a courageous one.

The thing that Rick and pretty much everyone else didn't do that Negan did do was give Eugene respect for his resourcefulness and intelligence.

I think Eugene is a very smart guy with a high IQ, but who is pretty much self-taught, so no Ph.Ds in anything. 

Edited March 2, 2017 by Jel

[ByTor]

49 minutes ago, qtpye said:

What if Jesus is actually Negan's secret son?  That could be why they are called the Saviors.

We have traveled through the looking glass, people.

That's part of where my suspicion comes from!  I have no idea about the comics, but I think it would be a good twist.

Edited March 2, 2017 by ByTor

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

Not to mention that opening montage a couple episodes back where he's making a sandwich.  I just don't get it.

I don't get it either, but as far as the sandwich montage went, I didn't mind it because by the end of that ep I realized that was the most interesting and suspenseful part.

 

23 minutes ago, Jel said:

The thing that Rick and pretty much everyone else didn't do that Negan did do was give Eugene respect for his resourcefulness and intelligence.

Not everyone can, or has to be, a fighter and if they have certain important skills (doctor, scientist, etc) it's better they aren't fighters. Someone who knows how to make candles is probably important by now!

[festivus]

2 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Not to mention that opening montage a couple episodes back where he's making a sandwich.  I just don't get it.

Well, that was to show how the Saviors work, with the point system and all except for Negan's inner circle who can do whatever they want. Not that that made it any less boring though.

[walnutqueen]

4 hours ago, qtpye said:

 Eugene was born a cowherd, but will die a hero.

Now all I can see is Eugene, in a meadow, contemplatively chewing his cud.  :-)

[Jel]

Real minor gripe here, but that jar of pickles Eugene was holding looked suspiciously like a big ol' jar of baby cucumbers, like someone in the props department just bought some mini cukes, shoved them in a jar and filled that jar with water, so when Eugene took a bite of one it looked like a fresh cuke and not a pickled one.

(Hey, I said it was a minor gripe!)

[ghoulina]

6 hours ago, qtpye said:

Eugene was born a cowherd, but will die a hero.

This would have worked better for me at the end of last season, when he volunteered to basically be the decoy. Now there's too much back and forth with him and I'm, sadly, tiring of his character. 

 

19 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

Jesus is one of the biggest plot holes in the show, imo.  We don't know where he came from, how he knows of all the different survivor groups, and we really don't know of any reason whatsoever why he's even on this show. 

I don't find it that odd, or suspicious. He came from Hilltop. Beyond that, we don't know any more background about him than anyone else at Hilltop. He knows The Saviors because THEY seek out other groups in the area to work for them. He knows ASZ/CDB because he went on a scouting mission per Gregory's request to find someone that could help take down The Saviors. Presumably that's likely how he met Ezekial and The Kingdom as well. I don't see his scouting other groups out much different than what Aaron and Erik's original jobs were with ASZ. Having general knowledge of the groups in your area is a good thing. 

[nodorothyparker]

I don't have any opinion on whether Jesus is at all mysterious or if there's anything more to him that what we've been presented with.  I also don't find it unusually suspicious that he does know members of all these different groups either.  

My issue is that he did know of all these other people and their particulars when he happily sent Rick and his crew off a murderin' with very little intel and the apparent impression that if they didn't do it there simply wasn't anyone else who could or would.  But he didn't think any of that was worth mentioning.  I also find it curious that it's apparently extremely easy to sneak into the Saviors' compound and while away some time there, as he did during Carl's visit until Daryl showed up, but he never suggested doing that first either.  I know we're supposed to think that at the time he only knew about the satellite outpost, but with trucks already coming to the Hilltop and all his super secret ninja skills, it seems a bit suspect that he never once got curious until Sasha suggested it. 

[Raven1707]

21 hours ago, spiderpig said:

Very interesting point.  Both eps meandered all over the place, leaving audiences (well, me) confused.  To feature a completely uninteresting character like Tara in one, and then render a previously interesting personality (Eugene) boring, causes me to wonder what somebody else might have been able to do with the material.

Re: David Leslie Johnson, I did not go back far enough in my search for writer credits (and/or blame, I suppose); he actually wrote two episodes way back in Season 2, "Chupacabra" and “Triggerfinger.” Of course, the first of those featured Daryl at arguably the height of his popularity, and the other gave us Randall.

Mea culpa.

[maczero]

On ‎2‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 4:38 AM, GreyBunny said:

I think he was a high school science teacher.

Is that speculation or was it mentioned in the show?  In any case, I can't imagine someone as socially awkward as Eugene running a classroom.  Someone here suggested that he worked at a comic book store and since reading that, I can't see him working anywhere else.

Speaking of socially awkward, the ending with Dwight and Eugene made me chuckle.  IIRC, didn't Eugene bite Dwight's dick last season?      

[Nashville]

15 hours ago, ByTor said:

Hmmmm....are you thinking what I'm thinking?  It's been in the back of my mind for a while that he's actually working for Negan by infiltrating other groups, but then I think nah, they'll never do that.  Besides, he's too hot to be bad :)

 You sound like some my older daughter's girlfriends. By the way, their taste in men is generally for shit. :>

 

8 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

My issue is that he did know of all these other people and their particulars when he happily sent Rick and his crew off a murderin' with very little intel and the apparent impression that if they didn't do it there simply wasn't anyone else who could or would.  But he didn't think any of that was worth mentioning.  

 Seems like I recall this being addressed in one of the earlier episodes of this season, when CDB had a post-Negan-intro confab with Gregory and Jesus.  In it Jesus said they had not previously seen very many of the Saviors, just the ones who came to pick up the tribute loads; based on that observation, the Hilltoppers hadn't thought the Saviors numbered much more than 15 or so.  That ring a bell with anybody else?

 

3 hours ago, maczero said:

Is that speculation or was it mentioned in the show?  In any case, I can't imagine someone as socially awkward as Eugene running a classroom.  Someone here suggested that he worked at a comic book store and since reading that, I can't see him working anywhere else.

I did, a while back.  Yeah, I don't see pre-ZA Eugene doing much else besides either fondly fondling Batman first editions, or working the return counter at your local GameStop.  :D

Edited March 3, 2017 by Nashville
Proofing

[nodorothyparker]

7 hours ago, Nashville said:

Seems like I recall this being addressed in one of the earlier episodes of this season, when CDB had a post-Negan-intro confab with Gregory and Jesus.  In it Jesus said they had not previously seen very many of the Saviors, just the ones who came to pick up the tribute loads; based on that observation, the Hilltoppers hadn't thought the Saviors numbered much more than 15 or so.  That ring a bell with anybody else?

I honestly don't remember but it certainly wouldn't be the first time I've zoned out and missed the point of some conversation between the nearly 5,000 characters we're supposed to be following in this interminable Saviors arc.

If that's what he said, that actually makes it even worse.  The Hilltoppers and Ezekiel and the Kingdom crew and whoever else were all cowering from 15 or so people?  With their numbers and resources they conveniently couldn't figure out any solution that didn't involve giving up the products of their labor or letting their people be brutalized or killed by such a small force until Rick showed up?  That makes every community involved look dumb and lackadaisical at best.  Oh wait, I just remembered what show I'm watching where multiple communities have gone up in flames at the hands of Rick's group, which is also about that size.

[GreyBunny]

On 3/1/2017 at 6:58 PM, ganesh said:

If they are actually going to rebuild a livable society, not simply just survive waiting for Negan to bash their heads in, they need people who can actually do useful things.  That is one thing the Kingdom has going for it.  They seem to be trying to rebuild, and move forward.

I don't know why they stay at Alexandria.  This whole ramp-up to some big fight feels like a bunch of territorial idiots fighting over a worthless pile of rocks.  After a run-in with Negan I'd pack my bags and keep moving.  There are other planned communities with defensible perimeters farther north (or west or wherever).  Go find one that isn't being menaced by a cartoon villain with a baseball bat.

Edited March 3, 2017 by GreyBunny

[paigow]

16 hours ago, Nashville said:

Yeah, I don't see pre-ZA Eugene doing much else besides either fondly fondling Batman first editions, or working the return counter at your local GameStop.  :D

Or lowballing people selling Spider Man memorabilia. Like that idiot Walt constantly does on Comic Book Men 

[Raven1707]

16 hours ago, Nashville said:

Seems like I recall this being addressed in one of the earlier episodes of this season, when CDB had a post-Negan-intro confab with Gregory and Jesus.  In it Jesus said they had not previously seen very many of the Saviors, just the ones who came to pick up the tribute loads; based on that observation, the Hilltoppers hadn't thought the Saviors numbered much more than 15 or so.  That ring a bell with anybody else?

Are you referring to this scene from Episode 611, "Knots Untie"?

Rick: We heard the name, Negan.  A while back, Daryl and Abraham had a run-in with his men. Who is he?
Jesus: Negan’s the head of a group of people he calls the Saviors. As soon as the walls were built, the Saviors showed up. They met with Gregory on behalf of their boss. They made a lot of demands, even more threats. And he killed one of us– Rory. He was 16 years old. They beat him to death right in front of us. Said we needed to understand, right off the bat. Gregory’s not exactly good at confrontation. He’s not the leader I would’ve chosen, but he helped make this place what it is, and the people like him.
Maggie: He made the deal.
Jesus: Half of everything. Our supplies, our crops, our livestock, it goes to the Saviors.
Glenn: And what do you get in return?
Jesus: They don’t attack this place. They don’t kill us.
Daryl: Why not just kill them?
Jesus: Most of the people here don’t even know how to fight, even if we had ammo.
Rick: Well, how many people does Negan have?
Jesus: We don’t know. We’ve seen groups as big as twenty.
Daryl: Now, hold up. So, they show up, they kill a kid, and you give them half of everything? These dicks just got a good story. The bogeyman, he ain’t shit.
Jesus: Well, how do you know?
Abraham: A month ago, we took his guys out PDQ. Left them in pieces and puddles.
Daryl: You know, we’ll do it. If we go get your man back, kill Negan, take out his boys, will you hook us up? We want food, medicine, and one of them cows.
(Jesus looks from Daryl to Rick)
Rick: Confrontation’s never been something we’ve had trouble with.
Jesus: (considering) I’ll take it to Gregory.

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, Raven1707 said:

Are you referring to this scene from Episode 611, "Knots Untie"?

Rick: We heard the name, Negan.  A while back, Daryl and Abraham had a run-in with his men. Who is he?
Jesus: Negan’s the head of a group of people he calls the Saviors. As soon as the walls were built, the Saviors showed up. They met with Gregory on behalf of their boss. They made a lot of demands, even more threats. And he killed one of us– Rory. He was 16 years old. They beat him to death right in front of us. Said we needed to understand, right off the bat. Gregory’s not exactly good at confrontation. He’s not the leader I would’ve chosen, but he helped make this place what it is, and the people like him.
Maggie: He made the deal.
Jesus: Half of everything. Our supplies, our crops, our livestock, it goes to the Saviors.
Glenn: And what do you get in return?
Jesus: They don’t attack this place. They don’t kill us.
Daryl: Why not just kill them?
Jesus: Most of the people here don’t even know how to fight, even if we had ammo.
Rick: Well, how many people does Negan have?
Jesus: We don’t know. We’ve seen groups as big as twenty.
Daryl: Now, hold up. So, they show up, they kill a kid, and you give them half of everything? These dicks just got a good story. The bogeyman, he ain’t shit.
Jesus: Well, how do you know?
Abraham: A month ago, we took his guys out PDQ. Left them in pieces and puddles.
Daryl: You know, we’ll do it. If we go get your man back, kill Negan, take out his boys, will you hook us up? We want food, medicine, and one of them cows.
(Jesus looks from Daryl to Rick)
Rick: Confrontation’s never been something we’ve had trouble with.
Jesus: (considering) I’ll take it to Gregory.

That's it - don't know why I had it in my head it was post-bash.  Much appreciate your finding it. I was looking in the wrong season, and wondering if I was going nuts - not that one has much to do with the other....

In any case, I think it supports the position that Jesus did not deliberately attempt to mislead CDB on the size of the Saviors.  CDB and the Hilltoppers were both, unfortunately, making incorrect assumptions based on a lack of hard data.