S05.E01: Amber Waves

[Cosmosgravitation]

40 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

She did not raise him. She left him with her parents in Russia. She lived in Montreal as a spy in deep cover, much like Philip and Elizabeth did in DC. She and Philip met and conceived their son while they were both in the KGB training program. They were coupled up at first, but then Philip was "assigned" to Elizabeth. 

I don't remember that being said for certain, although admittedly it has been awhile since I watched the other seasons.  Which conversation are you basing it on?  When we met Irina she was in deep cover in Montreal, but I don't think it was said when she went undercover.  According to the script, here is the conversation she had with Philip about their son.

Quote

Irina: Do you remember the last time we saw each other?
Philip: Of course I do. 

Irina: I told you that --

Philip: That you were ending the relationship because I was going away, and you've met someone else.

Irina shows the photo.
Irina: That's my son.  Our son.  When you were admitted to the academy, I was pregnant.
Philip: Why didn't you tell me?

Irina: Because you never would have left.  You would have been true to me and the baby, and you wouldn't have followed your dream -- our dream.  He's a good boy.  He's going into the army before the university. He wants to serve.  I cried for a long time after you left. I prayed that one day we'd be together. I didn't believe in god, but I prayed. I'm ready now, mischa.

Makes it seem like only Philip was leaving Russia, that she stayed for a time to raise their son, and that she feared if she told Philip he would also have stayed to raise him.  Irina talks like she knows her son, and in Mischa's scenes he talked like he knows her too, quite different from how Mischa talks about his father.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Cosmosgravitation

[kokapetl]

Margo Martindale had 60 seconds of dialogue. That Emmy is hers! 

Edited March 9, 2017 by Kokapetl

[SlackerInc]

@chocolatine, I was with you...but I think we both misinterpreted her.  Looks like @Cosmosgravitation wins this one.

[stagmania]

Definitely a table-setter of an opener, but there are several plots I'm already feeling invested in. Excited to have the show back!

I think I'm most looking forward to whatever is going to happen with Mischa. And I wonder if they're going to make Henry significant again. Seems like a good potential opportunity for some tension between Phillip's sons and his relationships with each.

[BradandJanet]

I wondered if the "America" song was by the Red Army Choir. They were a favorite of mine when I studied Russian in high school in the '60s. Of course, then everything was in Russian, which greatly expanded both my language skills and my music appreciation. Now, apparently the choir's repertoire has greatly expanded. I couldn't find the song on Youtube.

[TimWil]

Quote

5 hours ago, maraleia said:

Showrunners make mistakes about the weather all the time. It used to be worse before people could voice their opinions online.

As much as I loved The Crown I still find it unforgivable that they had That Other Philip taking flying lessons over an extremely green, lush looking English countryside when it had been firmly established to be a few weeks before Christmas.

Edited March 9, 2017 by TimWil

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, SlackerInc said:

@chocolatine, I was with you...but I think we both misinterpreted her.  Looks like @Cosmosgravitation wins this one.

I think that dialogue is still open to interpretation. It sounded to me like she was allowed to keep in touch with her parents (like Elizabeth was with her mother), and that's how she knew that Misha Jr was serving in the military. And that her parents always sang her praises to Misha Jr, along the lines of "your mother is a hero and not being able to raise you was a sacrifice she made so she could serve our country", which is why he seems fond of her. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[RedHawk]

2 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

A season or two back there was a ton of snow everywhere because they shoot in New York and there was a big blizzard that year. I'm sure it was inaccurate for DC in the time period portrayed. And I'm sure deep down the OCDness of Joe and Joel was making them grit their teeth, but they just can't do anything about it.  It would be cool to see what they would do with a huge budget though.

Yes,  I didn't mean to imply that the weather inaccuracies are actual "mistakes"; it is just that they shoot at different times of year and don't have the budget to make the actual outdoor shots perfectly reflect the time of year it's supposed to be. 

I also wonder how the show would look if they had a bigger budget and wish they had been given one for the final two seasons.  Most of all I wish they had shot more of it in DC because there are areas that still look basically like they looked in the '80s and it would've been more authentic. A couple of times there were scenes that were supposed to be historic buildings or monuments and it was clear they were not the Washington DC monuments.

before this episode I didn't think I care about the Misha storyline but now I do and really look forward to his interactions with the Jennings family.

[maraleia]

So the house has always been the same but they shot the exteriors from a different angle in previous seasons. The house is weird because IRL it's a three dwelling structure.

[JennyMominFL]

1 hour ago, TimWil said:

As much as I loved The Crown I still find it unforgivable that they had That Other Philip taking flying lessons over an extremely green, lush looking English countryside when it had been firmly established to be a few weeks before Christmas.

I don't know, my experience in the UK at Christmas was that it was still pretty lush green.. Especially in the Cotswolds where i usually go. At least, it was green when not raining

 

1 hour ago, BradandJanet said:

I wondered if the "America" song was by the Red Army Choir. They were a favorite of mine when I studied Russian in high school in the '60s. Of course, then everything was in Russian, which greatly expanded both my language skills and my music appreciation. Now, apparently the choir's repertoire has greatly expanded. I couldn't find the song on Youtube.

OMGosh, That who I saw sing Sweet Home Alabama on an awards show once.

Edited March 9, 2017 by JennyMominFL

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Because it's not realistic for someone who grew up in the Soviet Union, has never been out of the country until now, and had no special training, to be fluent in English.

We don't know what training he could have had. He doesn't have to speak perfect English. Pasha's perfectly understandable with broken English. It just seems silly to suggest that it's not realistic for a person who grew up in the USSR to speak English when the show is full of them. How did Oleg learn to speak it? How did Nina? How did Arkady? If the choice is between saying Mischa Jr. put in the effort to learn English enough that he could at least brokenly communicate in English or forcing MR, MM or FL to do too much dialogue in Russian, they might go with the former. It would have been possible to seek out teachers for this. He's from Moscow.

Quote

Phillip didn't seem disgusted to me at all. Elizabeth was the one who took major offense. It seemed to me that he was agreeing with her so she won't suspect how he really feels...which is that he does not want to ever go back there and loves the lifestyle in the US of A. 

I don't think that's true either. Just because Philip can acknowledge the benefits of the USA doesn't mean he can't think this guy is a jerk for talking shit about the country he still cares about. The wife and son weren't too happy listening to that either, which I'm sure Philip could see. I don't think the story about his mother was just supposed to be him placating Elizabeth or him suggesting the USSR sucked. When they were young it was just after the war and they'd feel very defensive about all they'd lost.

Quote

I don't remember that being said for certain, although admittedly it has been awhile since I watched the other seasons.  Which conversation are you basing it on?  When we met Irina she was in deep cover in Montreal, but I don't think it was said when she went undercover.  According to the script, here is the conversation she had with Philip about their son.

I think it's impossible to know exactly how this was supposed to work. To me Irina continues to seem like an unfortunate attempt to be two women in one--another spy (so that she could meet up with Philip again and reflect his own misgivings about the work) and the girl he left behind (everything else). Why can Philip not be a spy with a baby if she's a spy with a kid? Did she work part time? Take a deferment for X years and then be a spy? When she talked to Philip she sure sounded like she'd been doing it for many years. How does no one know she has she has a kid (as Gabriel suggested) if she raised him? Or did she just keep in touch without raising him? Wait, how could she have kept in touch like Elizabeth and her mother if nobody knew she had a kid, as Gabriel implied. (Or did he just imply they didn't know who the father was?) That's what I assumed when they had that first conversation (that she hadn't raised him but only gotten updates), but that then raises the question of why she didn't just terminate the pregnancy.

Honestly, it seems like all her choices were just guided by how best to annoy this poor kid she met at a train station. Ending by running off (something that ought to have put Mischa Jr. in danger given the way she was apparently sending him fake passports in the mail after she became a hunted woman) and then pointing the kid like a missile straight at an unsuspecting, undercover Philip.

Quote

And I wonder if they're going to make Henry significant again. Seems like a good potential opportunity for some tension between Phillip's sons and his relationships with each.

Seems like we've got a long way to go to those two having any actual relationship. Henry can't know his dad was ever in Russia yet, Mischa Jr. hasn't made it to the US where the Centre is waiting and he doesn't know exactly how to find Philip. Whatever happens he can't just show up like he would on a soap and get introduced to the other kids.

Edited March 9, 2017 by sistermagpie

[chocolatine]

4 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

How did Oleg learn to speak it? How did Nina? How did Arkady?

KGB and Foreign Service training.

[benteen]

3 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

Margot Martindale had 60 seconds of dialogue. That Emmy is hers! 

LOL, so true!  I love Margo, she's a great actress.  But they literally gave her an Emmy two years ago for the 120 seconds she was on the show that season.

I did love Philip not answering Elizabeth when she asked when would be the right time to go home.  It was kind of funny, like he was saying to himself "Please don't ask me again, please don't ask me again!"

[BradandJanet]

1 hour ago, JennyMominFL said:

I don't know, my experience in the UK at Christmas was that it was still pretty lush green.. Especially in the Cotswolds where i usually go. At least, it was green when not raining

 

OMGosh, That who I saw sing Sweet Home Alabama on an awards show once.

Excellent! They are so good. 

My sixteen-year-old-self was in love with every Red Army Choir tenor--the tenors were dreamy, although I never saw a picture of any one of them. Someone who sings in such a pure, sweet voice must be dreamy, huh? When I hear the singing on the Americans, I immediately thought it must be the Choir. Who else?

[sistermagpie]

6 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

KGB and Foreign Service training.

Touche! But I meant in a more general way--they all grew up in Russia, Nina and Arkady were poor, and yet they learned to speak English. It wouldn't confuse the audience to have Mischa have English lessons despite not being KGB. Especially since he had incentive to pay attention in English class and really try to learn it practically.

 

2 minutes ago, benteen said:

I did love Philip not answering Elizabeth when she asked when would be the right time to go home.  It was kind of funny, like he was saying to himself "Please don't ask me again, please don't ask me again!"

Philip was the one who wanted to go home. I mean, he was the one more pushing for it. Of course he'd prefer to be able to continue on in the US--and so would Elizabeth, given her reactions last season.

Edited March 9, 2017 by sistermagpie

[TimWil]

Quote

 

 

12 minutes ago, BradandJanet said:

Excellent! They are so good. 

My sixteen-year-old-self was in love with every Red Army Choir tenor--the tenors were dreamy, although I never saw a picture of any one of them. Someone who sings in such a pure, sweet voice must be dreamy, huh? When I hear the singing on the Americans, I immediately thought it must be the Choir. Who else?

One hasn't really lived until one has heard the Russian Army Choir in their rendition of "Skyfall."

 

https://youtu.be/-F832ZZNRV0

Edited March 9, 2017 by TimWil

[chocolatine]

Just now, sistermagpie said:

Touche! But I meant in a more general way--they all grew up in Russia, Nina and Arkady were poor, and yet they learned to speak English.

Other than universities, there weren't really any non-governmental resources to learn a foreign language to fluency. Even at the university level, there weren't any native speakers to teach you, and it was nearly impossible to travel abroad for an immersion course (per my mother, who was an English major in the late 70s). Nina, Oleg, and Arkady were taught as part of their training programs, after they were recruited (as were Philip and Elizabeth). Everyone else just had a few years of foreign language instruction in high school. Unless the story of him fighting in Afghanistan was just a cover and he was actually in KGB training for all of that time, I just don't see how Misha Jr would have had the resources to learn conversational English.

[J-Man]

7 hours ago, SWLinPHX said:

By the way. Martha, Alison Wright, has a small part in the AMC series, "Feud".

"Feud" is on FX, the same as "The Americans."

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, chocolatine said:

Other than universities, there weren't really any non-governmental resources to learn a foreign language to fluency. Even at the university level, there weren't any native speakers to teach you, and it was nearly impossible to travel abroad for an immersion course (per my mother, who was an English major in the late 70s). Nina, Oleg, and Arkady were taught as part of their training programs, after they were recruited (as were Philip and Elizabeth). Everyone else just had a few years of foreign language instruction in high school. Unless the story of him fighting in Afghanistan was just a cover and he was actually in KGB training for all of that time, I just don't see how Misha Jr would have had the resources to learn conversational English.

But we're not talking about him needing to learn it to fluency. If the kid's motivated, he'll make do with whatever he has. The family we met in this ep all spoke English having been in the US for 2 months. They don't speak well, but they're communicating. They wouldn't have had extensive training and just being in the US wouldn't be a magic bullet in itself. Especially for mom.

And if Mischa had a relationship with his mother, the woman is literally bilingual. If she cared for him in his early years he might have spoken it from the cradle at home. Maybe she hooked him up with some other English-speaker she knew like she hooked him up with fake passports.

To me it just seems like the main question will be what actors he's expected to interact with.

[gwhh]

5 hours ago, JennyMominFL said:

Once again, My Soviet baby Boomers book comes in handy. They interviewed around 30 kids,  some from a school in Moscow and the other from the "closed" city of Saratov. And I must once again reiterate that these were kids who were a bit better off, but most of them took English classes from childhood. On graduation night the kids in Saratov sang 16 Tons in English. According to other  academic sources I've read, in the 1960's  kids spent, from middle school on 4 hours a week on foreign language. English and French were the most popular. English and French literature were also commonly taught, in those languages. Leningrad actually had 26 English Language schools in 1987

Soviet baby boomers book??   Tell us more about it. Can we get one?  What it's real title?  Can we get it in English?  

 

Someone needs to tell Paige the guy mom killed was going to rob, rape us both (twice) and than kill us. Maybe even tell her about her rape and her daddy good kill on the guy who did it. Plus, Paige seems to be creep magnet. So she needs to go to KGB fight club!

Edited March 9, 2017 by gwhh

[scartact]

9 hours ago, jjj said:

About Elizabeth's ice-coldness:  you know that part of her was thinking, "huh, this is convenient" when they rolled Hans into William's coffin.  No clean-up.

Part of me was going to go, "Well, she wasn't that callous!" But on a practical level, I can see the probable appeal of them not having to do much to get rid of Hans's body (vs. other situations, like cracking bones into a suitcase!).

That being said, I kept thinking about the look Elizabeth and Philip shared right at the end. I kinda loved that image of Philip's and Elizabeth's face masks moving erratically as they seemed to by kinda hyperventilating at the end, especially Elizabeth (it seemed her breathing filled the diegetic sound at the very end, and it sounded pretty deep and almost like trying to control panic).

It's interesting cos to me I connected that reaction to Paige in a sense, since they began to address Paige's PTSD from seeing her mother slash that dude's throat last season. I also connected Elizabeth's fluid and practically automatic reaction to shoot Hans (speaking of, the quick mental calculation and efficiency of that in some ways reminded me of Nina's execution, and how the J's talked about the Soviet POV on it being that it was less cruel to immediately execute people, since they wouldn't have to wait in emotional agony/turmoil) to Tuan and his reaction to Alexei and the look Elizabeth particularly gave him.

I'm basically starting to project all kinds of potential mirrors to Tuan (all of which could be silly/wrong since the season just started). He could be a mirror of the Jennings children, or maybe Mischa Jr (frankly, this is interpretation is grasping at straws and there's no other reason for it other than Mischa Jr is male and so is Tuan), possibly even Elizabeth (perhaps his implied staunch idealism will serve as a contrast to where Elizabeth is at this point in the series). I'm definitely interested to see where the story go wrt Tuan.

[scrb]

Maybe the guy who badmouths the USSR was some high-level defector.

Phillip and Elizabeth are going to try to convince him to return to the Soviet Union?

But if he refuses, they're going to kill him?

Its got to be more than him talking trash to any stranger he meets because why would they care unless they're pathologically vindictive?

Did they try to go after Solzhenitsyn or other more famous defectors who publicly revealed how bad things were in the USSR?

[VCRTracking]

Well at least William Crandall's not alone anymore. Yikes.

That Vietnamese kid is hard core. I guess if my country was bombed to hell I'd be too.

Love Elizabeth training Paige and look forward to more of those scenes

As the digging scene kept going on and on MY muscles were sore watching it!

I'm interested where Oleg's story goes.

Wow, Henry got freakin' tall.

Edited March 9, 2017 by VCRTracking

[AllyB]

I have to say I really missed the goings on in the Rezidentura and hope that we will still see what goes on there. While I love Oleg and want to keep watching him no matter where he is, what happens in the Rezidentura tends to have a direct impact on or be effected what Philip and Elizabeth do. I know that with Oleg and Arkady gone, Tatiana is the only character we know working there. And I don't think anyone cares for her character in the way that we cared for Oleg, Arkady or Nina, but I still want to see what's happening in the Rezidentura. I also really miss Arkady, ever since The Colonel when he literally rolled up his sleeves and got to practical work to save his agents, I've really admired him.

One thing I'm not loving about the show is how certain plot strands are built up as important and then forgotten. Gaad and Beeman's investigation into the suspicious nature of Colonel Rennhull's death (the Colonel who tells Philip that the Star Wars programme is not credible) at the start of the second season seemed like it might go somewhere important. On two different occasions that we saw, the mail robot passed in the hallway while potentially important conversations happened, but Oleg and Tatiana never came across the transcripts. Kimmy was such a huge part of season 3 but she has one scene and one mention in season 4. Fine, we can accept that Philip is continuing his operation with her in the background but that operation was the one that he really couldn't cope with and was coming close to breaking him. Sure not having to work Martha anymore and the 'vacation' lessened his day to day pressure but he has guilt about how Martha ended up and still has to visit Kimmy every week. Which has got to be taking a toll because it is just so, so unlikely that Kimmy would still be happy to have this old guy call around every week for a smoke and a chaste chat. It would be really weirding her out.

Narratively it's irritating to invest emotion in a great, deeply uncomfortable storyline and then have to accept that it's still ongoing but we just aren't seeing it or it's effects on Philip anymore. It was fine during the first half of season 4 when the Martha story was taking up huge amounts of screentime. But we should have seen Kimmy more than once since then and we should be seeing that Philip is finding it to be a trying assignment. And I'd like to feel a bit more upset about Hans but as he was dropped from being an important part of the third season to a glorified extra last year, it's hard to care as much as I would have if Elizabeth had to kill him in the season 4 opener.

6 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Other than universities, there weren't really any non-governmental resources to learn a foreign language to fluency. Even at the university level, there weren't any native speakers to teach you, and it was nearly impossible to travel abroad for an immersion course (per my mother, who was an English major in the late 70s). Nina, Oleg, and Arkady were taught as part of their training programs, after they were recruited (as were Philip and Elizabeth). Everyone else just had a few years of foreign language instruction in high school. Unless the story of him fighting in Afghanistan was just a cover and he was actually in KGB training for all of that time, I just don't see how Misha Jr would have had the resources to learn conversational English.

I know a couple of older Czech and Ukrainian people who speak excellent English from listening to the BBC World Service English lessons that were broadcast via radio signal. While the Soviets certainly worked hard at jamming the BBC Russian Service there were still people who managed to listen enough to covertly learn to speak English.

[stagmania]

10 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Yes,  I didn't mean to imply that the weather inaccuracies are actual "mistakes"; it is just that they shoot at different times of year and don't have the budget to make the actual outdoor shots perfectly reflect the time of year it's supposed to be. 

The show films in my neighborhood, and given the erratic weather we've been having this year (it's winter! no wait it's spring! nope summer! back to winter!), I expect the filmed weather to be all over the map. I guess the one upside of climate change is that there are no more consistent seasonal weather patterns, so shows won't have to stress about having them match. 

8 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Seems like we've got a long way to go to those two having any actual relationship. Henry can't know his dad was ever in Russia yet, Mischa Jr. hasn't made it to the US where the Centre is waiting and he doesn't know exactly how to find Philip. Whatever happens he can't just show up like he would on a soap and get introduced to the other kids.

Yeah, I didn't mean relationships in the sense of him bringing Mischa into the family and Mischa and Henry having some kind of brother tension. I meant the way Phillip feels about his two sons, one who he raised and loves but had as an assignment, and one who he never knew but was the product of a loving relationship. I like all the spy stuff, but for me this show has always been about family dynamics at its core, and I hope to see them get back into that in the final two seasons. I'm very interested in Phillip's reaction to Mischa and what kind of thoughts and feelings it might inspire in him about the family he's built in America versus the life he might've had in Russia. They can do that with Paige, as well, but it seems like a missed opportunity with Henry so minimized in the story.

Edited March 9, 2017 by stagmania

[Chaos Theory]

8 hours ago, J-Man said:

"Feud" is on FX, the same as "The Americans."

And Alison Wright is playing a secretary.   

[benteen]

Alison Wright also has a recurring role on a great Amazon Prime show called Sneaky Pete.  Graham Yost also happens to be the showrunner of that show too.  Margo Martindale is one of the main cast members of Sneaky Pete (she got cast before Yost's arrival).

Edited March 10, 2017 by benteen

[PinkRibbons]

16 hours ago, crgirl412 said:

I was going to ask you about that!!!  It was beautiful and haunting at the same time.  Keep us posted!!  

From what I could tell, bafflement was the chief feeling. For a bit they didn't realize it was even America the Beautiful because the style was so perfectly Soviet. I think they'd appreciate the magnificent irony more if they were continuous watchers of the show. Mama did comment that the translation was excellent.

(BTW, I always panic when this forum starts up because it moves SO FAST, so for my own sanity I allow myself to call it quits and not try to catch up after the first couple of pages [I'm a slow reader, which is maddening to me], so please tag me or quote me if you'd like my thoughts on anything!)

One final thing: I don't know if anyone has said it, but the High-Ranking Official at the end of "America the Beautiful" was not eating a Danish, he was eating a Vatrushka. They sell them at most Russian bakeries; I remember being obsessed with them when I was about ten. Yummy!

[AllyB]

To the Russian speakers. Was there much lost in the translation of the subtitles? When Oleg was in the meeting with his new boss he said 'Yes Colonel' according to the credits, but he seemed to say much more than 2 words. It's the worst part of watching subtitled shows, I've come to suspect that I'm missing some of the subtleties of the dialogue. I normally don't notice when it comes to The Americans because I haven't the first clue about Russian but Deutschland 83 was a bit of a nightmare because I understand enough German to know that he dialogue and the subtitles weren't always matching up but not enough to be able to follow without them. 

[sistermagpie]

8 hours ago, scrb said:

Phillip and Elizabeth are going to try to convince him to return to the Soviet Union?

 

I think he's hooked up to what's going on in the US government regarding grain shipments to the USSR and they're trying to learn about that.

4 hours ago, AllyB said:

Which has got to be taking a toll because it is just so, so unlikely that Kimmy would still be happy to have this old guy call around every week for a smoke and a chaste chat. It would be really weirding her out.

It clearly isn't, though. I think the story was telling us that Kimmy ultimately wants a friend and father figure and actually likes having him that way. He's a good friend to her. If it starts weirding her out he'll have to switch it up, but given everything she said she really is genuinely lonely and missing that more than desperate for an older boyfriend.

2 hours ago, stagmania said:

I meant the way Phillip feels about his two sons, one who he raised and loves but had as an assignment, and one who he never knew but was the product of a loving relationship. I like all the spy stuff, but for me this show has always been about family dynamics at its core, and I hope to see them get back into that in the final two seasons. I'm very interested in Phillip's reaction to Mischa and what kind of thoughts and feelings it might inspire in him about the family he's built in America versus the life he might've had in Russia.

Ah, there I agree. And I think it's even more complicated because his relationship with Elizabeth *is* loving and for him it always was to some degree, just unrequited. I mean, even when they started trying with Paige they'd been working together for a few years. It was painful in that she didn't love him and the sex was just a job, but they still cared about each other. Meanwhile Irina may have seemed like the love of his life, but she betrayed him, lied to him, hid the child from him. He's got no reason to love her at all. 

I think he might feel even more confused because he'd regret abandoning this child (even if he didn't intentionally do so) and be upset that he was lied to, but at the same time there's just no way he can really regret Irina's lie at this point because it gave him Elizabeth, Paige and Henry. Given the chance to go back and do it over I don't think he'd hesitate to choose the family he has now over Irina.

46 minutes ago, AllyB said:

Was there much lost in the translation of the subtitles? When Oleg was in the meeting with his new boss he said 'Yes Colonel' according to the credits, but he seemed to say much more than 2 words.

I think he may have just said "Comrade Colonel" in Russian instead of just Colonel because that's what his title would be. Don't know why I remember that but who knows? He might have said a lot more!

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, PinkRibbons said:

One final thing: I don't know if anyone has said it, but the High-Ranking Official at the end of "America the Beautiful" was not eating a Danish, he was eating a Vatrushka. They sell them at most Russian bakeries; I remember being obsessed with them when I was about ten. Yummy!

Thank you for your insightful observations.  I like reading comments from people who have inside knowledge of the culture during this time period. 

This show is going to make me gain weight with all the amazing looking Russian pastries that I now have to try.

I sometimes resent Elizabeth for being able to juggle running a business, maintaining a family and a clean house, being a top notch KGB agent, having Phillip madly in love with her, being surrogate family for Stan, and always looking as good as Kerri Russell.

I once joked to somebody it must be her superior Russian genes...I would be a mess.

Edited March 9, 2017 by qtpye

[Sarah 103]

11 hours ago, gwhh said:

Someone needs to tell Paige the guy mom killed was going to rob, rape us both (twice) and than kill us.

I think Paige knows that, but that doesn't make what happened in front of her any less disturbing or scary. In her mind, she could be going back forth between the awful thing that actually happened (her mother killing their would be attacker) and the awful things that might have happened (assault, rape, murder) if Elizabeth had not reacted so quickly.

[Inquisitionist]

23 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Thank you all for straightening some things out for me. I didn't realize that that was William's body; to me it looked like a female.

Whew, glad I'm not the only one.  I kept wondering who that woman was.

 

22 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Oleg looks great. I'm not sure if he looks better than usual, but I am thrilled we got to see him. I'm totally okay with a season of Oleg in the USSR. As long as we get to see him on a regular basis, and not always in a suit. He looks great in 1980s casual wear.

He looks great in nothing, too.

[Sarah 103]

6 minutes ago, Inquisitionist said:

He looks great in nothing, too.

Agreed, but I didn't want to sound like a perv or creepy. More scenes of Oleg shirtless would be greatly appreciated.

[General Days]

23 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Thank you all for straightening some things out for me. I didn't realize that that was William's body; to me it looked like a female.

Henry looked so grown up. How much longer can they expect him to be clueless?

My husband and I thought it was a woman, too, Inquisitionist and Auntie Anxiety. I had already lost patience with the digging scene, so then when it appeared to be no one we knew, I no longer regretted falling asleep the first time I watched the episode, and wished I'd fallen asleep a second time. 

22 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I didn't get the impression that the USSR sent Pasha's father to the US to work diplomatically. I got the impression that he had defected somehow (like the Jewish scientist who Philip smuggled back to the homeland). And now that he's in the US, he's more than happy to share secrets with the US government.

This was my impression as well. 

17 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Ah, I didn't think of that. I was thinking they'd use the tarps to pour the dirt back in, which of course after a certain point would be impossible due to the amount of dirt. 

Yeah, they have to work with what they have while they're shooting. Sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn't.

I really hated the digging scene. I wish I had found it suspenseful. Instead, I felt like they quit writing the episode 2/3s of the way through. 

Still, I'm glad the show is back. I can't wait to see where it goes from here. I think it's good that Joel & Joe know their end date and can plan accordingly. 

[JennyMominFL]

12 hours ago, gwhh said:

Soviet baby boomers book??   Tell us more about it. Can we get one?  What it's real title?  Can we get it in English?  

 

S

Soviet Baby Boomers: An Oral History of Russia's Cold War Generation (Oxford Oral History Series by Donald J Releigh. It's available in English on Kindle. It follows two groups of students, via interviews, through childhood, School, adulthood and the collapse of the USSR. It's a bit dry but it's also pretty interesting.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Americans Land In A New Op

When Elizabeth and Philip aren't in airline drag for a job they're working on a recent Soviet emigré, they're trying to keep Paige from losing her mind.

[kokapetl]

I don't understand Pasha's dad's attitude. Hadn't the Soviet Union been importing grain for decades at that point? Why would either side employ this man for his expertise? I wonder if he's an expert on some sort of agricultural polywater type thing.  

Edited March 9, 2017 by Kokapetl

[AllyB]

Pacha's dad is probably much more important than he lets on. The KGB wouldn't have organised a complex mission involving a pair of illegal agents and an allied agent in order to get close to some mid level agricultural worker. The FBI wouldn't have permanent minders on him either.

Edited March 9, 2017 by AllyB

[dubbel zout]

4 hours ago, AllyB said:

To the Russian speakers. Was there much lost in the translation of the subtitles?

Not a Russian speaker, but I asked my cousin, who is, and she said the subtitles are pretty accurate. Certain phrases/constructions are longer in one language than the other, and that accounts for the seeming mismatch sometimes.

[JasonCC]

I can't remember but had Elizabeth had sex with Hans when recruiting him?

[chocolatine]

7 minutes ago, JasonCC said:

I can't remember but had Elizabeth had sex with Hans when recruiting him?

She hadn't. He made a pass at her, but she said it would "complicate things". Which, in retrospect, has a whole new significance.

[Chaos Theory]

3 hours ago, AllyB said:

Pacha's dad is probably much more important than he lets on. The KGB wouldn't have organised a complex mission involving a pair of illegal agents and an allied agent in order to get close to some mid level agricultural worker. The FBI wouldn't have permanent minders on him either.

It's funny but this brings me back to Stan.  Stan is waaaay to forthcoming about what he does for a living.  It was almost the first thing out of his mouth when he met the Jennings.  He told Pastor Tim.  Then again for Stan it's forgivable because the show needed a quick and dirty way to make conflict.  

It does remind me of a running joke on Archer.  Archer tells everyone he meets that he is a spy often just to get laid.  Anyway most people with any sort of security clearance have a ready made lie for the expected question of "what do you do for a living?"

Pascha's dad probably does  have a job with a higher security then he tells people.   P&E are smart enough to realize they couldn't turn a guy who hates Russia but turning or tricking his kid or even using his kid as a bargaining chip is a who other bowl of borscht.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[sugarbaker design]

20 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

P&E are smart enough to realize they couldn't turn a guy who hates Russia but turning or tricking his kid or even using his kid as a bargaining chip is a who other bowl of borscht.

Right, it could be just like Elizabeth infiltrating that Asian-American family last season.  There was no convincing or turning there, it was straight up extortion.

[sistermagpie]

22 hours ago, Cosmosgravitation said:

Makes it seem like only Philip was leaving Russia, that she stayed for a time to raise their son, and that she feared if she told Philip he would also have stayed to raise him. 

In the flashback scene he says he's been admitted to a "leadership program." I don't know if "leaving" there refers to Russia or just going to the Academy, because he tells her in that scene that he's going to be away for a year. So she may be saying that she lied about the baby so he'd go to that program for a year and she hoped they'd be able to get back again together.  

But then, we know Elizabeth was recruited, seemingly knowing it was to be an Illegal, at 16. And Philip was in Moscow with Irina. So...I got nothin'. Makes no sense. Did she realize she accidentally sent him away forever and then decide there was no point in the baby anymore and become an Illegal herself? Was she just not good enough when he was? Ugh.

1 hour ago, JasonCC said:

I can't remember but had Elizabeth had sex with Hans when recruiting him?

Sex isn't a standard part of recruitment. Hans was obviously recruited because he wanted to fight Apartheid. Elizabeth might not have even been the one to do it. We saw her training him, not recruiting him. 

51 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

Right, it could be just like Elizabeth infiltrating that Asian-American family last season.  There was no convincing or turning there, it was straight

Yup, the guy didn't hand over any secrets or betray anyone. He just left people alone in his office while he went to the bank.

Edited March 9, 2017 by sistermagpie

[Knuckles]

On 3/8/2017 at 7:56 AM, Ina123 said:

By the way. Martha, Alison Wright

She also has a great supporting role in Sneaky Pete, the Amazon original..with Bryan Cranston. She's terrific, and the series is great.

[Sarah 103]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Stan is waaaay to forthcoming about what he does for a living.

This is only a guess, because I have no idea how the FBI actually functions. If someone is an undercover agent for the FBI, they are most likely not allowed to say what they do (because of the whole undercover thing). However, once they are no longer an undercover agent and are going to be spending the rest of their career behind a desk in headquarters or a field office, I would assume it would be okay to tell people you work for the FBI, just not reveal anything specific about what you do or any state secrets/classified information. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Did anyone else get the feeling that Oleg got a really crappy position? When the guy was describing it, I got the feeling that this is not a good position.  You are likely to step on some toes and you might go down over this.  

Quote

 

[Chaos Theory]

2 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Did anyone else get the feeling that Oleg got a really crappy position? When the guy was describing it, I got the feeling that this is not a good position.  You are likely to step on some toes and you might go down over this.  

I got the feeling that his boss was after his father and using him to do it.    

[SunnyBeBe]

3 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I got the feeling that his boss was after his father and using him to do it.    

OH, I didn't think of that. Just that he might  have to go after people his family has known for years.  A part of me just wondered why....I mean, isn't that the way things in the USSR worked at that time?  It was difficult for me to imagine someone going after higher ups with criminal charges.  Oh, well....maybe, I just don't know much about the the Soviet Union during that time, though, I did used to read about them A LOT in the 70's. 

Edited March 9, 2017 by SunnyBeBe