Sell By Date Expiration: Old Shows That Don't Stand Up To The Test Of Time

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, jennifer6973 said:

Radar's was that his mom was dating after a long time.  He was upset because a 50 year old was too old to be dating anybody.   I would have thrown something at the TV, but didn't want to break it.

I could have accepted him being upset because his mom was dating, the idea of your parent dating can be weird, like thinking about your parents having sex lol, but her age shouldn't matter, unless she was dating someone her son's age, then I totally get his being upset. 

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, Blergh said:

One thing to keep in mind re women performers/characters past 40 seeming to look older than we'd expect through modern eyes: until recent decades, estrogen supplements were not available. Hence once menopause happened, there was little if anything a woman could do to prevent the body from having a post-menopausal appearance in a short time. It's not for nothing that the saying of  '40's the new 30' has come to be

It's not just famous women though is it? There was that meme floating around a few years ago about how Tom Cruise at the time was the same age as Wilford Bromley when he filmed Cocoon.

[Shannon L.]

6 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I have the series and have been watching it recently. They do a really good job for a show from the 70's. I recently watched the episode where Venus dates Andy's sister and Andy gets upset. Venus calls him out and says it's because he is Black. And there is actually a scene where Andy says that he thought about it and even though he and Venus are friends some of his anger was because his sister went out with a Black guy, and he hates that he felt that. Seems like a fairly complicated look at racism for 1980.

Yeah, they did do a pretty good job with a lot of issues, considering the time period that it was filmed.  I guess it's Herb and his treatment of Jennifer that wasn't handled quite as well by today's standards.  Back then, I guess you could say that the way Jennifer was written and they way Loni Anderson played her was their way of addressing it and a big reason that it's still not as bothersome while watching it today.  I don't know that a new sitcom with those two kinds of characters interacting that way would do as well today, though.  I know that the main reason I didn't last more than a few episodes into season one of Abbott Elementary was the principal's treatment of the (substitute?) teacher.  But, imo, she came off a bit more sexual than Herb and the teacher didn't take the principal head on like Jennifer did.

[Kel Varnsen]

51 minutes ago, Shannon L. said:

Yeah, they did do a pretty good job with a lot of issues, considering the time period that it was filmed.  I guess it's Herb and his treatment of Jennifer that wasn't handled quite as well by today's standards.  Back then, I guess you could say that the way Jennifer was written and they way Loni Anderson played her was their way of addressing it and a big reason that it's still not as bothersome while watching it today

That is sort of how I see the Herb/Jennifer thing. I mean I am sure those types of guys were all over the business world at the time. But the show still made it clear that he was an inappropriate jackass. And even though they never really did anything about his behaviour people did tell him to knock it off. She also didn't hide herself or change her looks and wasn't afraid to tell him to get lost. So I guess overall it was kind of good. Plus the show at least implied that they couldn't fire Herb because no one else wanted to work there.

[Bastet]

7 hours ago, Anduin said:

there's an ageing on TV topic, isn't there?

Yep, here.

[DXD526]

Herb was always presented as kind of a clueless braggart, which also helped defuse the creepiness factor in his pursuit of Jennifer. It gave the impression of a dog chasing the car situation; he wouldn't know what to do with the car if he actually caught it.

Hormone treatments were already getting widespread by the time The Golden Girls debuted in '85. In fact, there was a joke about it in an early episode. The house was broken into, and Rose thinks it was probably someone looking for drugs. Dorothy answers, "We have Maalox and estrogen. How many junkies have gas and hot flashes?"

Echoing the Marion Mercer love! I first saw her at a young age, on Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman, and many times after, and she was always funny (MH, MH was also my first exposure to Martin Mull, Dabney Coleman, and Mary Kay Place. Quite a petri dish of young talent that show was). 

It's A Living was a solid show. Nothing spectacular, but always good for a few laughs. These days it's just as fun to watch for the absolutely ridiculous 80s clothes and hair, which are on prominent display!

[Kel Varnsen]

12 hours ago, DXD526 said:

Herb was always presented as kind of a clueless braggart, which also helped defuse the creepiness factor in his pursuit of Jennifer.

That is sort of what made it better I think. If Herb was presented as a cool guy who got lots of women but was constantly being shut down by Jennifer anytime he tried to ask her out or anything, it would have made it much worse. And I can see that another show from that time period might have done something like that.

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

That is sort of what made it better I think. If Herb was presented as a cool guy who got lots of women but was constantly being shut down by Jennifer anytime he tried to ask her out or anything, it would have made it much worse. And I can see that another show from that time period might have done something like that.

Yes, making him the butt of the joke made it acceptable. I can't imagine many men watching thought "oh, I want to be like Herb!". Not just because, well, he's Herb, but because he failed to "get the girl". I haven't watched the show in ages, but I don't think it ever went down the dangerous trope path of him finally wearing her down and her finally dating him. 

[Shannon L.]

31 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

I haven't watched the show in ages, but I don't think it ever went down the dangerous trope path of him finally wearing her down and her finally dating him. 

They kind of tackled that.  She was talking to, I think Bailey, about Herb's behavior and Bailey told her to call his bluff and say yes.  She did and Herb was thrilled, but when he went to pick her up, he got so nervous and started feeling so guilty, that he bungled the whole thing.  It was like @DXD526 said, the dog caught the car and didn't know what to do with it.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Shannon L.

[Haleth]

On 6/16/2023 at 7:41 PM, Mabinogia said:

And holy mother forking shirt balls, I just found out that I am currently the age Rue McClanahan was when the show started. I'm a forking Golden Girl!!!!!!!

Want to freak out even more?  Edith Bunker was supposed to be 52.

I loved how Loni Anderson played Jennifer. So not what you would expect from a sitcom. 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Haleth

[bmasters9]

On 5/6/2019 at 3:06 PM, Lugal said:

And I remember when Married With Children started out, there were "Good Christian Folk" who raised holy hell about how awful the show was before it ever even premiered.  Ed O'Neill even once said: (paraphrasing) thank you Christian nutjobs for promoting our show.

It was the same with Soap in 1977 on ABC-- Donald Wildmon's American Family Association had similar astroturfing with that 70s serial comedy that was a spoof of the daily serials of the time.

[DrSpaceman73]

The simpsons the same way. 

Which is ironic because the simpsons actually are shown  going to church more than any family on tv

[Laura Holt]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

Want to freak out even more?  Edith Bunker was supposed to be 52.

And Jean Stapleton was only 48 when the show premiered!  Would any actress of 48 today play a character like Edith was meant to be?  Dowdy and very middle aged?  I don't think so.

[kathyk24]

3 hours ago, Laura Holt said:

And Jean Stapleton was only 48 when the show premiered!  Would any actress of 48 today play a character like Edith was meant to be?  Dowdy and very middle aged?  I don't think so.

I don't think Edith looked dowdy she looked like a housewife of that era. Lifespans were shorter then so people looked older than they do now. Women weren't as obsessed with looking younger as they are now. My grandma was born in 1920 I remember asking her if she ever thought she would be alive in 2000. She said no and she died in 2014. I think people expect to live to old age and it's shocking when it doesn't happen.

[Mabinogia]

4 hours ago, bmasters9 said:

It was the same with Soap in 1977 on ABC-- Donald Wildmon's American Family Association had similar astroturfing with that 70s serial comedy that was a spoof of the daily serials of the time.

I LOVED Soap. One of my favorite shows of all time. I think it holds up because it was just totally insane. I wanted to be a Jessica Tate but I was always more of a Mary Campbell. 

[Laura Holt]

55 minutes ago, kathyk24 said:

I don't think Edith looked dowdy she looked like a housewife of that era. Lifespans were shorter then so people looked older than they do now. Women weren't as obsessed with looking younger as they are now. My grandma was born in 1920 I remember asking her if she ever thought she would be alive in 2000. She said no and she died in 2014. I think people expect to live to old age and it's shocking when it doesn't happen.

I don't think it's a case of being obsessed with looking younger so much as 48 is younger now than it was then.  All I meant was that if they were going to do a show about a middle aged couple today, even if they were meant to be working class like Edith and Archie were I don't see them having a couple in their late 40s dressing and acting like they are  verging on elderly and IMO that's how Edith and Archie were written.

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I LOVED Soap. One of my favorite shows of all time. I think it holds up because it was just totally insane. I wanted to be a Jessica Tate but I was always more of a Mary Campbell. 

It's mine too. It's just so funny and insane. I loved Mary and Jessica but Burt was my favorite especially when he decides he can make himself invisable. Chuck and Bob were hilarious too.

[Annber03]

11 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

It's mine too. It's just so funny and insane. I loved Mary and Jessica but Burt was my favorite especially when he decides he can make himself invisable. Chuck and Bob were hilarious too.

I like the bit in one episode where Chuck and Bob were doing this thing of Bob being blindfolded and able to guess what Chuck was holding up, and Burt and Danny were just agog at this ability.

Meanwhile, Mary's sitting there with the most perfect, "...dear god, I'm surrounded by idiots..." expression on her face XD. 

[andromeda331]

On 6/18/2023 at 11:50 PM, Annber03 said:

I like the bit in one episode where Chuck and Bob were doing this thing of Bob being blindfolded and able to guess what Chuck was holding up, and Burt and Danny were just agog at this ability.

Meanwhile, Mary's sitting there with the most perfect, "...dear god, I'm surrounded by idiots..." expression on her face XD. 

I love that episode. Another favorite is when Burt disappeared from the mental hospital. Mary, Danny, Chuck and Bob go to the mental hospital to try and find out what's going on. Bob's been an ass as usual and Danny has enough and attacks him. Just then the doctors come in and break up the fight, they assume their all patients of the hospital. 

[kathyk2]

On 12/21/2016 at 7:35 PM, Chaos Theory said:

The first few seasons worked for me.  After awhile though I think it just got repetitive.  I guess not made for binging.  Plus when it was bad it was aweful.  And yeah for guys who were supposed to be on the run they didn't keep a particularly low profile.  Hell I think BA lived in his old neighborhood for awhile.

The fifth season of the A-Team was awful the only decent episode was Without Reservations. George Peppard didn't want any female costars and he got what he wanted.

[proserpina65]

On 6/18/2023 at 4:39 PM, kathyk24 said:

I don't think Edith looked dowdy she looked like a housewife of that era.

I knew a lot of housewives in the 70s.  Most of them dressed better than Edith.  She was dowdy, especially by the standards of the decade, imo.

 

On 6/18/2023 at 4:39 PM, kathyk24 said:

Lifespans were shorter then so people looked older than they do now.

It was the 1970s, not the 1870s.

[kathyk2]

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

I knew a lot of housewives in the 70s.  Most of them dressed better than Edith.  She was dowdy, especially by the standards of the decade, imo.

 

It was the 1970s, not the 1870s.

More people smoked and drank in the 1970's than they do now.

[Danielg342]

On 12/9/2014 at 12:52 AM, giovannif7 said:

Disco started catching on in the mid 70s, then remained mainstream through 1980

I'm not sure disco ever really "died"- it, like other forms of music, just morphed into something else. Lots of the dance and electronic music genres today owe their debt to disco. Heck, a lot of modern pop music has clear disco influences.

I just think that dance music- in general- tends to go through a bit deeper "boom and bust" cycles than most other kinds of music. You get periods where it gets immensely popular- like in the '90s or the EDM craze from the last decade- and periods where you just get one or two hits per year, if that. My guess is that it's because dance never really has shied away from its reputation for being "simple, fun music"- which has its place in the music marketplace but it's not something with a lot of staying power.

To tie it back to the thread, I don't know if I could ever say that a disco scene is truly "out of place". The music and the fashions might be out of place, but the mentality is the same. Every generation seems to have some kind of cheesy dance music fandom- be it the boy bands of yore or the EDM bros of today- to make fun of.

That, I'm sure, will never go away.

[Kel Varnsen]

7 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

More people smoked and drank in the 1970's than they do now.

Sunscreen wasn't really common like it is today. At best people had suntan lotion which let them still get the effects of the sun with less chance of getting a sunburn. But still taking a toll on your skin and making you look older.

[proserpina65]

21 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

More people smoked and drank in the 1970's than they do now.

 

14 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Sunscreen wasn't really common like it is today. At best people had suntan lotion which let them still get the effects of the sun with less chance of getting a sunburn. But still taking a toll on your skin and making you look older.

Very true, and the smoking/drinking would make you look a bit older.  But it didn't make people dress like dowdy old women in the 70s when they were doing that drinking/smoking/tanning.  Edith both looked and dressed older than her character was supposed to be.  I do think she was dowdy even by the standard of the times for the working class.  (Which is what my family and most of my friends' families were.)

[Ohiopirate02]

13 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

 

Very true, and the smoking/drinking would make you look a bit older.  But it didn't make people dress like dowdy old women in the 70s when they were doing that drinking/smoking/tanning.  Edith both looked and dressed older than her character was supposed to be.  I do think she was dowdy even by the standard of the times for the working class.  (Which is what my family and most of my friends' families were.)

I was curious and looked up some pictures of Edith since All in The Family is before my time.  Edith does look dowdy.  She looks stuck in time wearing dresses similar to what she would have worn as a young woman 25 years earlier and not updating her hair.  Compare her to Bea Arthur's Maude and it's pretty apparent that one of them changed with the times while the other one did not.  

[ABay]

I think both Edith and Archie hark back to the 1950s and earlier and it's apparent in Edith's dress as well as Archie's bigotry. The theme song also implies it:

Boy the way Glenn Miller played
Songs that made the hit parade.
Guys like us we had it made,
Those were the days.


 

[meep.meep]

Glenn Miller died in WWII - they're harking back to the '40s.

[ABay]

That's why I said "and earlier".

[Fool to cry]

The new Shogun is great. Thinking of another popular Richard Chamberlain miniseries, no way they could do the Thorn Birds today. Twitter would explode! I'm amazed they were able to do it in 1983!

Edited June 8 by Fool to cry

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Fool to cry said:

The new Shogun is great. Thinking of another popular Richard Chamberlain miniseries, no way they could do the Thorn Birds today. Twitter would explode! I'm amazed they were able to do it in 1983!

About the only thing I remember about the Thorn Birds was that it was a period piece with a woman seducing her Catholic, presumably with an oath of celibacy Priest. Is there something else in the story that is not  doable today?  That main story point I have seen in shows produced from South America to the Philippines ? Did he rise to Bishop with everyone in the church hierarchy knowing of the extramarital sex.

[Notabug]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

About the only thing I remember about the Thorn Birds was that it was a period piece with a woman seducing her Catholic, presumably with an oath of celibacy Priest. Is there something else in the story that is not  doable today?  That main story point I have seen in shows produced from South America to the Philippines ? Did he rise to Bishop with everyone in the church hierarchy knowing of the extramarital sex.

No, the woman was discreet and kept the paternity of their love child secret. She also came from money and they were able to get together without a lot of witnesses during their affair which mainly took place on the huge ranch where she lived.. He rose in the Church hierarchy because he was supposedly a good priest, other than the vow of celibacy thing.

Edited June 8 by Notabug

[JustHereForFood]

9 hours ago, Raja said:

About the only thing I remember about the Thorn Birds was that it was a period piece with a woman seducing her Catholic, presumably with an oath of celibacy Priest. Is there something else in the story that is not  doable today?  That main story point I have seen in shows produced from South America to the Philippines ? Did he rise to Bishop with everyone in the church hierarchy knowing of the extramarital sex.

I wouldn't call it seduction, considering she was a child when they met and he was already an adult. The only thing I can see people having problem with now that they didn't before is how their relationship might come off as grooming. She came from a huge family and was the only girl, so she was often overlooked by her parents and the priest was often the only adult she could talk to. I don't think there was any intentional grooming going on, both of them were usually victims of circumstances, but as an adult, he was the one who should have been more careful about keeping their relationship from becoming romantic and failed at it. It makes for an interesting and tragic story, but I think that many people today especially on social media lack enough media literacy to comprehend when something in a story means that the authors are endorsing the behavior vs. just showing things happening because people are human.

[Ohiopirate02]

6 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

I wouldn't call it seduction, considering she was a child when they met and he was already an adult. The only thing I can see people having problem with now that they didn't before is how their relationship might come off as grooming. She came from a huge family and was the only girl, so she was often overlooked by her parents and the priest was often the only adult she could talk to. I don't think there was any intentional grooming going on, both of them were usually victims of circumstances, but as an adult, he was the one who should have been more careful about keeping their relationship from becoming romantic and failed at it. It makes for an interesting and tragic story, but I think that many people today especially on social media lack enough media literacy to comprehend when something in a story means that the authors are endorsing the behavior vs. just showing things happening because people are human.

There is enough nuance in the source material that The Thorn Birds could be remade.  The characters are complex and all the adults are messy in their own ways.  Did Father Ralph groom Meggie? Maybe he did or maybe he was the only adult in her life besides her older brother Frank who actually gave a shit about her.  Ralph does choose his own career as a priest over Meggie when Meggie's aunt dies and leaves two wills.  He abandons her the first time after that not coming back to Drogheda until Meggie's dad and brother die.  They do share a kiss in the aftermath of the fire and those deaths, but Ralph's reaction to it is to hightail it out of there and abandon Meggie a second time.  He does know what he did to Meggie was wrong that is why he leaves her so abruptly.  But, he assumes incorrectly that Meggie's mother would do something to help Meggie get over her school girl crush instead of doing absolutely nothing despite her history of being groomed by a married man, having that man's bastard, and marrying Paddy in disgrace.  The romantic relationship between Meggie and Ralph does not happen until Meggie is an adult, unhappily married to Luke.

[proserpina65]

On 6/8/2024 at 2:39 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

There is enough nuance in the source material that The Thorn Birds could be remade. 

The book was incredibly nuanced, and I think the miniseries was as well.  I think it could work now, done correctly, but I wouldn't want to see it remade because the original was so good.

On a shallow note: that was my introduction to Bryan Brown and what an introduction it was, all sweaty and shirtless, shearing sheep.

[EtheltoTillie]

4 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

The book was incredibly nuanced, and I think the miniseries was as well.  I think it could work now, done correctly, but I wouldn't want to see it remade because the original was so good.

On a shallow note: that was my introduction to Bryan Brown and what an introduction it was, all sweaty and shirtless, shearing sheep.

If you like Bryan Brown, you should try to watch A Town Like Alice, which was shown on PBS in the 80s.  It's a six episode series about Australians and Brits who were imprisoned by the Japanese in WWII and then follows up with them in Australia.  Based on a novel.  It is impossible to find on DVD. Sometimes it pops up in YouTube videos.  I caught it again last year. 

I think this is  a good link for A Town Like Alice, but it's a horrible print. There's also a 50s movie, but I have never bothered watching it.  It's not the whole story line. 

The British lawyer for the young woman lead is the great Gordon Jackson.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLVRzndIfGI

Edited June 10 by EtheltoTillie