Tara Ariano February 22, 2017 Share February 22, 2017 Quote In the first-season finale, Tip and West reach Emerald City with vengeance on their minds. Meanwhile, Dorothy faces off against the Wizard and fights to save Oz; and Glinda brings her power to the battlefield as the threat of the Beast Forever looms. Link to comment
Morrigan2575 March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 Well, that sucked. Seriously, show? Very disappointing. 2 Link to comment
cooksdelight March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 All I could think was, where the hell is Toto?? Ozma is a very wise queen, draining the memory of Eamon's family like that. Brilliant. I hope this show continues another season. Otherwise, Scarecrow is stuck in Kansas with Dorothy and Auntie Em. 10 Link to comment
Primetimer March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 There's no place like home as the weird Wizard of Oz mash-up reaches the end of its rainbow. View the full article 1 Link to comment
Senna March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 Well ... if there were to actually be a second season, then this might've been all right. Ozma took over with West, Frank died, the true Beast Forever appeared. Jack, Eamonn, and Roan have all been broken down and are ripe for new chapters. Glinda and West seemed like they might make an alliance ... maybe. But since I don't think there will be a second season (terrible ratings), and since they didn't even make any attempt whatsoever to tie things up, then this was kind of not great. What was the point of telling us Karen was Dorothy's mother only for it to be Jane instead? Why couldn't Frank have just said it was Jane in the first place? Who then is Dorothy's father? (If it even matters.) How did things go down when Karen and Dorothy first got sent back to Kansas by Jane? Who is the Beast Forever? A skinless dude who can turn into a dragon thing, yeah, but *who* is he? Why was he there? Where did he come from? Who is Mother South? How did Frank take over Oz in the first place? How did Mombi end up with Ozma? I could go on and on ... but I guess we'll never know *sigh* 3 Link to comment
MarySNJ March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 (edited) Lots of thoughts... Need to give it more thought. I wondered last week if the flayed man was in the pit because had something to do with the Beast Forever. Poor, brave, badass Jack. He deserved a better end than that, but at least he went down fighting. I hope Jane had a chance to collect him before bled out, but it's not sounding good. So Sylvie's powers can destroy stone as well as turning things to stone. I didn't think the guns would kill the witches. East's death had been an accidental suicide. And shooting Sylvie was what turned Dorothy against Frank. I was genuinely surprised that Jane is Dorothy's Mother. Dorothy doesn't look like either one of the prospective mothers. Why couldn't she leave with her? How does it protect Dorothy for Jane to remain in Oz? I would like another season to see where this Beast Forever story goes. I enjoyed the episode but feel like too little payoff for all the build-up. I thought Ozma's justice was both merciful and stern. Perhaps the cowardly lion will have a chance to make amends in the battle against the BF. Edited March 4, 2017 by MarySNJ 5 Link to comment
statsgirl March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 26 minutes ago, cooksdelight said: All I could think was, where the hell is Toto?? In Kansas with Dorothy. And that's all I understood from this episode. 3 Link to comment
cooksdelight March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 12 minutes ago, Senna said: What was the point of telling us Karen was Dorothy's mother only for it to be Jane instead? And why show us the same dot tattoo on Karen's hand in the first episode? It's as if the writer's decided midstream, after a few bong hits, to make Jane her mother. Consistency and continuity be damned! 7 Link to comment
Machiabelly March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 Guns don't kill witches. Witches with guns kill witches.Also...it was Dorothy who destroyed the witch temple thing right? Not the little girl. 7 Link to comment
Free March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 37 minutes ago, cooksdelight said: Ozma is a very wise queen, draining the memory of Eamon's family like that. Brilliant. It should've focused more on her and less on Dorothy messing things up for everyone else until the end. 2 Link to comment
zxy556575 March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 I really liked it and hope for another season of striking surprises. I was mostly entranced by the otherness and imagery of Oz, but also intrigued to see how the original Baum stories would be incorporated and/or subverted. I enjoyed being carried along and didn't try to poke the bubble too much. 9 Link to comment
djinn March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 I liked how Ozma turned out - a wise and just ruler. And one with magic. East and West struck up a truce; Eamonn was suitably punished and thankfully, the Wizard died an uneventful death. I really want another season. I want to know if Jane will get out of her imprisonment by the Beast Forever, how she will rebuild (hopefully!) Jack and Langwidere, how Eamonn and Roan will be moving forward, and so much more. It seemed that Sylvie/Leith's magic is to turn anything, including stone giants, into granules of sand. That is, pulverize all to minuscule dry particles that crumble. 3 Link to comment
thuganomics85 March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 Whelp, I guess that was a season finale, alright! Wrapped up a decent amount of stuff, but then set-up a few things incase this show somehow gets renewed (which, I'm guessing if that happens, it will not air on NBC.) Not surprised The Wizard/Frank bit it, since I had a feeling Vincent D'Onofrio would probably only stick around for one season (fingers crossed his Wilson Fisk will be making a comeback on Daredevil.) A fitting end that he ended up turning Dorothy against him by shooting Sylvie, and then Jane being the one to put him down, considering their history. Ozma/Tip takes her rightful place at the throne. Her punishment to Eamonn was actually a pretty solid one. She makes him also lose his family, but doesn't actually kill them. Obviously, it is better that they are alive, but having them no longer remember has to be painful. At least he gets to keep his lion helmet! Man, did Jack get fucked up! It look like Glinda was actually considering West's offer, before The Beast Forever showed up. Gina Bellman's character actually wasn't Dorothy's mother, but Jane instead. Jane sends her back to Kansas again, but now Lucas (?!) returns, and tells her that Jane has been captured and only Dorothy can save her! I guess we'll find out wherever we'll get another installment or not! 3 Link to comment
Morrigan2575 March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 15 minutes ago, Machiabelly said: Also...it was Dorothy who destroyed the witch temple thing right? Not the little girl. That was my impression as well. 2 Link to comment
MarySNJ March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 14 minutes ago, cooksdelight said: And why show us the same dot tattoo on Karen's hand in the first episode? It's as if the writer's decided midstream, after a few bong hits, to make Jane her mother. Consistency and continuity be damned! I enjoyed the show for the visuals and some of the twists, but it is so full of inconsistencies. I binge-watched the previous 9 episodes this week, and they're even more glaring. I was surprised by the twist Jane being Dorothy's mother so I guess it served its purpose, but I agree that it feels like they writers changed their minds about what would motivate Dorothy to return to Oz. I would still like to watch a second season, and maybe if there is one they can tie things together more neatly. Link to comment
phoenics March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 I really want a second season, if for nothing more than to tie things up better. I hate being left hanging. I didn't see Jane as Dorothy's mother coming at all. Lucas and Dorothy have really intense chemistry. I'm sad we probably won't see how that ends up. Oh well. Glinda is exactly what I thought - she's basically Coin from The Hunger Games. Interested in power and winning - basically she'd just be another version of the Wizard, only magical. West seemed to understand how futile that way. I think Glinda was going to reluctantly serve Ozma - but probably only until she could come up with a plan to take over completely. I really don't trust Glinda. And I'm not sure she really loves Roan - her words about survival being more important than love illustrates she'd throw love over to rule if she could. This show has made Dorothy a spoiler from top to bottom. Her interference in everything caused a lot of crazy. I still don't get why the folks of Ev let the Wizard go - did they think HE animated the giants? But anyway - Dorothy destroys the temple and that breaks Glinda's spell? Leaving the witches exposed and vulnerable - but the gunshot wounds don't kill them thankfully. The scene with Dorothy in the middle of the locusts and seeing Glinda reflected briefly before seeing her for real was really visually stunning and amazing to watch. Well done show. Loved the callout to the movie by having the flying monkeys spell out "Ozma" with the Emerald City folks running around and pointing in confusion. That was cool. The whole Lion scene - that was merciful and stern - erasing Eammon from his family's memory. That way only he would be tortured - they would have nothing to be tortured about. It is kinda cruel, but at least they'll never know. Only Eammon, as punishment for killing the King and Queen. Guess he's lucky Ozma didn't kill him. 4 Link to comment
adam807 March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Machiabelly said: Guns don't kill witches. Witches with guns kill witches. Also...it was Dorothy who destroyed the witch temple thing right? Not the little girl. Solid point re the witches with guns. I'm pretty sure it was Sylvie. Dorothy was bringing the giant(s) to use against Glinda. Sylvie has stone-related killing powers. Glinda brought her, she started vibrating, the giants crumbled. Ergo... I could be wrong but that's what makes sense to me. Why would D destroy her own weapon? Link to comment
talktalk March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 I hope this show get a second season. There are so much to be resolved. How are the show's ratings so far? Link to comment
alaynestone March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 (edited) Man, I really hope this gets a second season. There's so much I want to still see explored and answered. I'll admit - I was a total idiot and completely thought the witches were dead. And then duh, lol, witches can only die by other witches. I blame this on it being a Friday and a long work week. Frank is a horrible person and a coward. I'm glad he was taken down from power, I didn't think they would kill him though. My poor Jack. I've grown really attached to him. He was pretty badass swinging at everyone with his axe. I'm thinking he's still alive since we saw him still conscious at the end looking at the beast forever. Ozma's story was really great. My only disappointment is that we didn't see more of it - I would have liked to see the Wizard's reaction to her being alive. A little sad that he died without her officially de-throning him and being all, "Ha! You didn't kill me as a baby like you thought." I would have also liked to see Ozma/West's reactions to the Wizard's & Glinda's war. I thought Ozma's punishment to Eammon (sp?) was pretty just - since she magically took their memories, I'm guessing that means she can always restore them. I'm thinking that if we get a second season, we can see Eammon's redemption arc and Ozma eventually restoring his families memories to them. Although, I wouldn't blame her if she didn't - he did still betray his King and Queen and murder her parents. And... wth... Jane is Dorothy's mother?? That was completely random and unexpected. She really does not resemble Dorothy at all. I wonder who the father could be then? Not sure what to think of the beast forever. edit: I was really worried when those bullets were flying that Jane was gonna get hit. Edited March 4, 2017 by alaynestone 2 Link to comment
WendyCR72 March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 The thing is, I know there's no "Wizard" in this show's title, but I can't see how the show could go on without him. Like Dorothy, the character seemed to be one of the backbones of the story. 2 Link to comment
Camera One March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 (edited) So few replies... I expected more people would watch on finale night. The producers were rather arrogant in assuming there would be a second season. I was wondering how they would answer the entire scroll of unanswered questions in a single hour, but it seems they didn't bother answering any. I really like Jane, so I don't mind that she's Dorothy's mother, but it came out of the blue with nothing we've seen that supports it. The Wizard could use that machine to send his "men" precisely to where Karen could be found? How would the men get back to Oz to tell him the deed was done? How would Lucas have known how to operate that machine to get to Kansas if Jane was a prisoner? Why did Ev's soldiers let the Wizard go? Did he promise to send the rock people away? And why was the one in Emerald City just standing there? Why did Dorothy go to Ev? What exactly was her plan considering she hardly communicated any of her intentions to Glinda during their tete-a-tete of pointlessness and further misunderstanding. Meanwhile, Glinda had no info about West and all the black clothing witches' whereabouts when she marched off to Ev to not-kill the Wizard? They've done a really bad job with Glinda in the sense that she has shown zero human emotions. Even the Wizard was allowed to show his vulnerabilities, but she has to be a cold hearted witch with no soul just because she was too good and boring in the books? She seemed like a maniacal wannabe dictator. Does West and Glinda not know about the flayed man? Why did West leave him there when she freed the other witches? I didn't find Tip's banishment sentence very convincingly spoken. She lacked authority. So much for payoff of all the characters meeting up and her seeing Jack again. The Eamon stuff was very undeveloped. They can't seriously expect us to feel any connection now between Dorothy and Lucas after what happened last episode. The fact that there was so little planning for actual payoff over the course of this season makes me wary of another season. The show was beautifully filmed and I really enjoyed the location shots and costumes, but the story and characters lacked heart (and brains too). Edited March 4, 2017 by Camera One 1 Link to comment
Tim Thomason March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 As I understood it, this was supposed to be a "10 hour miniseries event", so I assumed that it'd be a self-contained story with maybe a final hook in case of a second season. Like the original movie. I was wrong. 2 hours ago, Camera One said: I really like Jane, so I don't mind that she's Dorothy's mother, but it came out of the blue with nothing we've seen that supports it. The Wizard could use that machine to send his "men" precisely to where Karen could be found? How would the men get back to Oz to tell him the deed was done? How would Lucas have known how to operate that machine to get to Kansas if Jane was a prisoner? I'm assuming that the Wizard sent his men on a suicide mission, probably lying to them about his ability to bring them back, and probably with the instruction to kill Dorothy as well. Then again, maybe the twister that took Dorothy was sent by West or even Glinda (or her acolytes?) or perhaps Jane's machine had a retrieval function of some sort. Jane's supernatural steampunk abilities need to be explained. I mean, maybe she's an unknown Ozian (or Evian) in the first place, since she apparently built the first machine in the '90s as well that sent them there. I also assume that West or Glinda or Ozma sent Lucas and Toto to retrieve Dorothy from Kansas. Probably because only her mystical ability to harm everyone she comes in contact with is the only way to stop the invulnerable Beast Forever. 2 hours ago, Camera One said: Why did Ev's soldiers let the Wizard go? Did he promise to send the rock people away? And why was the one in Emerald City just standing there? Why did Dorothy go to Ev? What exactly was her plan considering she hardly communicated any of her intentions to Glinda during their tete-a-tete of pointlessness and further misunderstanding. There were multiple statues. Dorothy only took one with her to meet the Wizard in Ev. She left the one that the Wizard had left out of the Witches' temple as a warning. Dorothy still maintained control over all the statues, I gather, and when Sylvie destroyed the nearby one, she took control over the warning statue and had it smash the temple and the altar room, thereby (likely) destroying the magical essences of many of the witches from before. Previous episodes showed how important this was to witches well-being, and it was likely a spiritually painful and morally shattering event to all witches. Dorothy's 'plan' was to bring back the rock people to force peace on everyone (like before) and then force the Wizard and her to return to Kansas and leave Oz forever. The Evians were presumably convinced enough by the stone man and I assume the Wizard's eloquent tongue. I'm thankful enough that they didn't show us that, as it gave us more time for the show. 2 hours ago, Camera One said: Meanwhile, Glinda had no info about West and all the black clothing witches' whereabouts when she marched off to Ev to not-kill the Wizard? They've done a really bad job with Glinda in the sense that she has shown zero human emotions. Even the Wizard was allowed to show his vulnerabilities, but she has to be a cold hearted witch with no soul just because she was too good and boring in the books? She seemed like a maniacal wannabe dictator. Does West and Glinda not know about the flayed man? Why did West leave him there when she freed the other witches? Glinda probably used magic (a wizard-did it defence works for this show!) to conjure the general location of the Wizard and his friends, and wasn't looking or even sensing West's presence at that time (maybe she can sense the black-clothed witches, but not by location, and just continues to feel their presence even when they were locked up in the Abject Prison). I think they know all about the flayed Beast, even Glinda acknowledges to the Wizard that "witches are not the Beast Forever, you fool". West kept him confined mystically in the Prison even when she freed everyone else. He was only freed because Dorothy showed up and used East's gauntlets to let him out. 2 hours ago, Camera One said: I didn't find Tip's banishment sentence very convincingly spoken. She lacked authority. So much for payoff of all the characters meeting up and her seeing Jack again. The Eamon stuff was very undeveloped. They can't seriously expect us to feel any connection now between Dorothy and Lucas after what happened last episode. The fact that there was so little planning for actual payoff over the course of this season makes me wary of another season. The show was beautifully filmed and I really enjoyed the location shots and costumes, but the story and characters lacked heart (and brains too). That was one crazy afternoon for the common folk in the Emerald City. I know Ozma has all the powers of the Wicked Witch of the East (except for the gauntlets? Where does Dorothy's power come from? Is she sharing hers with Ozma, and is that why they need her back so bad?), but the memory spell threw me for a loop. I mean, I guess it's the same thing that Glinda did to Lucas (but more specialized), but I don't get that Ozma would be so powerful to know how and that she could do this. One of the other witches or better yet, West, should've done this at her behest. My hope for an unlikely second season would be one that is intricately plotted out ahead of time (with no revisions after they start the first episode!). And close the book on the series. And bring us the Shaggy Man in some form or another. 1 Link to comment
cooksdelight March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 4 hours ago, WendyCR72 said: The thing is, I know there's no "Wizard" in this show's title, but I can't see how the show could go on without him. Like Dorothy, the character seemed to be one of the backbones of the story. I don't for one minute think that Frank is dead. IF the show gets a second season, Jane will fix him up somehow... if only as a deal with him to let Dorothy live when she comes back. 2 Link to comment
WearyTraveler March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 3 hours ago, Camera One said: The Wizard could use that machine to send his "men" precisely to where Karen could be found? How would the men get back to Oz to tell him the deed was done? How would Lucas have known how to operate that machine to get to Kansas if Jane was a prisoner? The storm was still raging when Dorothy showed up at Karen´s and the men were there and we saw the funnel of the twister that brought Roan (and Toto!!) to Kansas in the final shot. So, I think that the storm has a window in which people could go back. I´m assuming when they sent Roan to fetch Dorothy, they provided him with instructions on how to get back. Perhaps it's as simple as standing under the funnel before it disappears. Frank could have done the same thing with his men. Also, there was no mention from Dorothy´s aunt as to the amount of time she was missing. From the conversation with her aunt and the timing of Dorothy's return to Karen's house, it seems that in addition to travelling to another world (dimension?), there's some time manipulation as well. So, for all we know, a full year could have gone by in Oz before Roan showed up at Dorothy's, even though for her it had only been a couple of days. During that time, Jane could have taught someone else how to use the machine. 6 hours ago, adam807 said: I'm pretty sure it was Sylvie. Dorothy was bringing the giant(s) to use against Glinda. Sylvie has stone-related killing powers. Glinda brought her, she started vibrating, the giants crumbled. Ergo... I could be wrong but that's what makes sense to me. Why would D destroy her own weapon? You are right and wrong! :D Summarising the sequence of events: Glinda asks if the Wizard awakened the stone giants Dorothy says she did, and that she controls the giants now Dorothy tells Glinda to stop or she'll use the giants against the witches. She has the one giant with her to prove that she can control them. The other giant is still frozen in Emerald City. Glinda summons Sylvie and Sylvie starts to destroy the giant that is right there Dorothy asks Sylvie to stop, but she doesn't. She seems to be in a trance. Dorothy looks at Glinda in defiance, closes her eyes and activates the gauntlets Glinda tells Dorothy that her spells won't help her and that the giant (singular, not plural) is dead Dorothy lifts her head and seems to be in her own trance From Dorothy's face we cut to Emerald City where we see the other giant, not crumbling, but awakening. Perhaps what confused you is that there's some debris falling from this giant, but that's only natural, since the thing is starting to move after years of being frozen. It's covered in dust, and whatnot Cut to Dorothy's intense face again Cut back to the giant pushing its lance through the dome into the heart of the witches' shrine. It's a motion with intent, not an accident. So, Glinda would not have orderd Sylvie to do it. Cut to Glinda acting as if she'd been stabbed in the gut Glinda's spell is broken and all the witches are visible. Sylvie is still working on the giant that is crumbling in the field, and Dorothy tells her to stop again. Sylvie doesn't stop. Frank shoots Sylvie The giant crumbles and its dust covers the field. Mayhem ensues 6 Link to comment
Suzysite March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 Quote And... wth... Jane is Dorothy's mother?? That was completely random and unexpected. She really does not resemble Dorothy at all. I wonder who the father could be then? There was a scientist named Roberto who is supposed to be Dorothy's dad. I assume he is Hispanic, so that might explain Dorothy's looks. http://emeraldcity.wikia.com/wiki/Roberto 2 Link to comment
MarySNJ March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, phoenics said: I really want a second season, if for nothing more than to tie things up better. I hate being left hanging. I didn't see Jane as Dorothy's mother coming at all. Lucas and Dorothy have really intense chemistry. I'm sad we probably won't see how that ends up. Oh well. Glinda is exactly what I thought - she's basically Coin from The Hunger Games. Interested in power and winning - basically she'd just be another version of the Wizard, only magical. West seemed to understand how futile that way. I think Glinda was going to reluctantly serve Ozma - but probably only until she could come up with a plan to take over completely. I really don't trust Glinda. And I'm not sure she really loves Roan - her words about survival being more important than love illustrates she'd throw love over to rule if she could. This show has made Dorothy a spoiler from top to bottom. Her interference in everything caused a lot of crazy. I still don't get why the folks of Ev let the Wizard go - did they think HE animated the giants? But anyway - Dorothy destroys the temple and that breaks Glinda's spell? Leaving the witches exposed and vulnerable - but the gunshot wounds don't kill them thankfully. The scene with Dorothy in the middle of the locusts and seeing Glinda reflected briefly before seeing her for real was really visually stunning and amazing to watch. Well done show. Loved the callout to the movie by having the flying monkeys spell out "Ozma" with the Emerald City folks running around and pointing in confusion. That was cool. The whole Lion scene - that was merciful and stern - erasing Eammon from his family's memory. That way only he would be tortured - they would have nothing to be tortured about. It is kinda cruel, but at least they'll never know. Only Eammon, as punishment for killing the King and Queen. Guess he's lucky Ozma didn't kill him. I loved the mechanical flying monkey droids! Putting on next year's Christmas list. There are so many inconsistencies and much confusion about who caused what to happen, in my opinion. Sylvie was destroying the stone Giants, but was Dorothy somehow able to get one last blast in with the Giant piercing the temple? Or was it an unforeseen consequence of Sylvie's Magic? One of the things I like about this series so far is that the characters all make choices that have consequences that they may not have anticipated. Glinda's attempt to destroy the stone Giant unintentionally led to the destruction of the temple, which broke the spell that protected the girls, whether Dorothy had intervened or not. I don't blame Glinda for wanting to rid Oz of a tyrant who suppresses her sisters' magic, but she and the Wizard share the same hubris and the same disregard for people in their effort to survive. West sees the big picture that Glinda missed. But then West had been humbled and forced to see that magic alone can be just as destructive. I hope there's another season and if so, the writers can take their time to write a coherent story that doesn't seem rushed and thrown together. Edited March 4, 2017 by MarySNJ 1 Link to comment
sjohnson March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 (edited) It appears Glinda and East and West (and the unseen South?) have always known the Beast Forever is in the Prison of the Abject. Which means they've been lying to the Wizard so that he'll act all crazy trying to find ways to fight the Beast? What kind of people do stuff like that? The show says special people who are seeing their own identities. The only real dramatic choice in this episode was Ozma's judgment on Eamonn. The amazing thing was this show very early on made a big deal out of Lucas'/Roan's torments about not knowing who he was. But when we see a woman who just had who swathes of her life ripped out we're supposed to be pleased? She doesn't know where those children came from! The show has really been completely indifferent to the humanity of the non-magical characters but this is possibly a low even for it. Edited March 4, 2017 by sjohnson Link to comment
MarySNJ March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 28 minutes ago, sjohnson said: It appears Glinda and East and West (and the unseen South?) have always known the Beast Forever is in the Prison of the Abject. Which means they've been lying to the Wizard so that he'll act all crazy trying to find ways to fight the Beast? What kind of people do stuff like that? The show says special people who are seeing their own identities. The only real dramatic choice in this episode was Ozma's judgment on Eamonn. The amazing thing was this show very early on made a big deal out of Lucas'/Roan's torments about not knowing who he was. But when we see a woman who just had who swathes of her life ripped out we're supposed to be pleased? She doesn't know where those children came from! The show has really been completely indifferent to the humanity of the non-magical characters but this is possibly a low even for it. Someone knew, but apparently the other witches in the PoA didn't know or I would think that Nahara would have said so. What I'm trying to understand is if the freeing of Beast Forever was destined to happen exactly the way it did, or another catastrophic Dorothy-induced accident. The Alderman of the village that the Wizard visited with Anna earlier in the season said "The Beast Forever comes because it must" and implied it has a purpose. I guess we won't know unless there is another season. 1 Link to comment
AzureOwl March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 10 hours ago, phoenics said: This show has made Dorothy a spoiler from top to bottom. Her interference in everything caused a lot of crazy. And this seems to fit perfectly with what we know of the cycle of the Beast Forever. The presence of the interlopers from beyond Oz is supposed to cause chaos and disruption that paves the way for the coming of the Beast. That is why the coming of the interlopers from the sky is the First True Sign of the return of the Beast. That is why Mistress East said that in Oz they know that nothing good ever comes from the sky. 47 minutes ago, sjohnson said: It appears Glinda and East and West (and the unseen South?) have always known the Beast Forever is in the Prison of the Abject. Which means they've been lying to the Wizard so that he'll act all crazy trying to find ways to fight the Beast? What kind of people do stuff like that? The show says special people who are seeing their own identities. That doesn't compute. If the Cardinal Witches knew that the Beast was trapped in the Prison of the Abject their behavior would've been very different. West for instance, would've spent every waking moment torturing the shit out of the guy. Also remember that the Beast was freely operating in Oz while the guy (who is named Roquat in the credits) was still trapped in the prison. He killed those three prostitutes to taunt the Wizard. In my opinion, this indicates that the beast took possession of Roquat after he was freed. We know that the Beast can possess people, since it's what it did to the three women it had commit suicide. 4 minutes ago, MarySNJ said: Someone knew, but apparently the other witches in the PoA didn't know or I would think that Nahara would have said so. What I'm trying to understand is if the freeing of Beast Forever was destined to happen exactly the way it did, or another catastrophic Dorothy-induced accident. The Alderman of the village that the Wizard visited with Anna earlier in the season said "The Beast Forever comes because it must" and implied it has a purpose. I guess we won't know unless there is another season. If my theory that Roquat is merely a vessel for the Beast, rather than the Beast itself is correct, then the Beast may have chosen its vessel from the options that Dorothy's actions presented it. 5 Link to comment
phoenics March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 8 hours ago, Camera One said: How would Lucas have known how to operate that machine to get to Kansas if Jane was a prisoner? About Lucas - I'm not sure how he got to use the machine or if he did at all. In Kansas, only 10 minutes passed while Dorothy spent 10 weeks in Oz. I think a LOT of time will have passed by the time Dorothy gets back to Oz (if there's a S2). 1 Link to comment
theatremouse March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 Or he's a servant of it, since once his skin was back on he had wings, and nothing good ever comes from the sky. 3 Link to comment
phoenics March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 2 hours ago, MarySNJ said: I loved the mechanical flying monkey droids! Putting on next year's Christmas list. There are so many inconsistencies and much confusion about who caused what to happen, in my opinion. Sylvie was destroying the stone Giants, but was Dorothy somehow able to get one last blast in with the Giant piercing the temple? Or was it an unforeseen consequence of Sylvie's Magic? One of the things I like about this series so far is that the characters all make choices that have consequences that they may not have anticipated. Glinda's attempt to destroy the stone Giant unintentionally led to the destruction of the temple, which broke the spell that protected the girls, whether Dorothy had intervened or not. I don't blame Glinda for wanting to rid Oz of a tyrant who suppresses her sisters' magic, but she and the Wizard share the same hubris and the same disregard for people in their effort to survive. West sees the big picture that Glinda missed. But then West had been humbled and forced to see that magic alone can be just as destructive. I hope there's another season and if so, the writers can take their time to write a coherent story that doesn't seem rushed and thrown together. Agree about West vs Glinda - West does see the big picture, Glinda is just power hungry and blinded by that above all else. Shades of Professor X and Magneto there. Also - Sylvie didn't destroy the giant over the temple. Sylvie was only destroying the giant she could see. Dorothy was controlling all of the giants - she didn't destroy the one in Emerald City - she just used it to destroy the temple by having the giant drive it's spear through the temple, breaking Glinda's spell. Sylvie was still concentrating on destroying the one stone giant on the battlefield, and when she didn't stop and Glinda's cover spell was broken, The Wizard shot her. I hope the writers really think through the full season and give us something amazing and not rushed. The visuals are so pretty and I'm so invested in the story now that I really want it to have a better ending than this. 1 Link to comment
sjohnson March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 1 hour ago, AzureOwl said: That doesn't compute. If the Cardinal Witches knew that the Beast was trapped in the Prison of the Abject their behavior would've been very different. West for instance, would've spent every waking moment torturing the shit out of the guy. Also remember that the Beast was freely operating in Oz while the guy (who is named Roquat in the credits) was still trapped in the prison. He killed those three prostitutes to taunt the Wizard. In my opinion, this indicates that the beast took possession of Roquat after he was freed. The assumption these characters do things to reach their goals seems highly questionable to me. West's refusal to liberate "Roquat" for instance makes little or no sense. Everyone else was freed. Nahara was merely too close to death to leave by herself. The notion skinless man was possessed suffers from the problem that possessing a prisoner makes no sense. If you assume the prisoner was the Beast and his ability to at least possess someone from within was suppressed by East, that at least makes sense. The witches didn't hang themselves until East was dead. I suppose you could just say that West just felt like only women were worth freeing and obviously a man would deserve to stay in prison...but that sort of analysis verges on seeing Emerald City as some sort of demented parody of "feminism." Link to comment
cooksdelight March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 3 hours ago, sjohnson said: It appears Glinda and East and West (and the unseen South?) have always known the Beast Forever is in the Prison of the Abject That was my next question.... 2 hours ago, AzureOwl said: The presence of the interlopers from beyond Oz is supposed to cause chaos and disruption that paves the way for the coming of the Beast. That is why the coming of the interlopers from the sky is the First True Sign of the return of the Beast. That is why Mistress East said that in Oz they know that nothing good ever comes from the sky ....answered here, I think. Nothing good ever comes from the sky..... Dorothy came from the sky and it's been chaos ever since. The Beast Forever is in the sky. Didn't they know what he looked like, where he was? 36 minutes ago, phoenics said: About Lucas - I'm not sure how he got to use the machine or if he did at all Didn't he say Dorothy's mother sent him? Because she's now in prison and needs Dorothy to fight the Beast? Link to comment
attica March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 I hope I wasn't the only viewer exhorting the drones upon their release, "Fly! Fly my pretties!" I don't see how I could be alone in that. I remember wondering in ep 1 if Joely Richardson was playing Em under latex, and I had the same thought for E10. But imdb ids another actor in the role. One who looks quite a bit like Joely. I liked the overhead shots of Dorothy's "companions" (Tin, Lion, Scarecrow) each alone, in the shadow of the winged creature. Very atmospheric. I guess I'll watch another season, if there is one. 3 Link to comment
cooksdelight March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 Just now, attica said: hope I wasn't the only viewer exhorting the drones upon their release, "Fly! Fly my pretties!" I don't see how I could be alone in that No, I want one. Several, in fact. Fascinating little critters. 1 Link to comment
For Cereals March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 Any thoughts on Auntie Em with the black fingernails? I found that a little suspicious. 4 Link to comment
phoenics March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 1 minute ago, Forcereals said: Any thoughts on Auntie Em with the black fingernails? I found that a little suspicious. Me too. I think it was meant to make us suspicious - and make us think things weren't all back to normal for Dorothy... and then Toto showed up with Lucas and well... I think what I'm unsure of is whether Auntie Em was really getting that from cracking walnuts (does that actually happen?) or whether that was just a device to make Dorothy think things were weird at first, only to relax when it was truly only walnuts - only for - dun dun dun!! Toto and Lucas to show up! 2 Link to comment
rollacoaster March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 Apparently it is a thing: http://www.ehow.com/how_5607527_remove-walnut-stains-skin.html I never knew. 1 Link to comment
MarySNJ March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 2 hours ago, phoenics said: Agree about West vs Glinda - West does see the big picture, Glinda is just power hungry and blinded by that above all else. Shades of Professor X and Magneto there. Also - Sylvie didn't destroy the giant over the temple. Sylvie was only destroying the giant she could see. Dorothy was controlling all of the giants - she didn't destroy the one in Emerald City - she just used it to destroy the temple by having the giant drive it's spear through the temple, breaking Glinda's spell. Sylvie was still concentrating on destroying the one stone giant on the battlefield, and when she didn't stop and Glinda's cover spell was broken, The Wizard shot her. I hope the writers really think through the full season and give us something amazing and not rushed. The visuals are so pretty and I'm so invested in the story now that I really want it to have a better ending than this. Okay, I see what you mean about the other giants. So somehow Dorothy and Ozma are sharing aspects of East's magic. How does that even work... Never mind. I'll make myself crazy overthinking this beuatiful mess. 2 Link to comment
theatremouse March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 15 hours ago, cooksdelight said: And why show us the same dot tattoo on Karen's hand in the first episode? It's as if the writer's decided midstream, after a few bong hits, to make Jane her mother. Consistency and continuity be damned! Or it actually has some protective magic and Jane put them on both Dorothy and Karen when she sent them back from Oz together. Although, you know during the previous episode, I realized when I cam here and someone mentioned something about Karen, I'd completely forgotten about the subplot of Dorothy and her mother. Like completely left my mind. So then when this one circled back round to it, it just emphasized even more so how the pacing was disjointed and how the show did not handle well the many moving parts. For example, Game of Thrones has a gajillion characters and ongoing plot threads, and even if some of them might not get screentime for many episodes in a row, the multiple stories hold my attention enough, and hold together enough, that I never forget one existed. In fact I'm usually waiting eagerly for it to be revisited and get more. Meanwhile, with this show, they pulled focus from Dorothy for a bit and I basically stopped caring. I actually almost thought maybe they'd decided to just drop that aspect and do other stuff (although with this originally being planned as a mini-series, that wouldn't have made much sense). But from a viewing perspective, it felt like they dropped it, like an intentionally-ongoing show might for a plot that wasn't working. I feel like this show all the way sort of waffled between deciding it wanted to be a real ensemble vs the "mains" are who you'd expect them to be if you had any familiarity with the source material, but they also just added a lot of other characters and stuff too for world building. If it's supposed to be all about Oz, they needed to make the focus more clear: here's this over here, there's them over there, all this going on and relating and coming together. As it played, it felt like it started off as the Dorothy Show, then forgot about her, then at the end wrapped it up by being the Dorothy Show again. They needed to pick a route. 1 Link to comment
LittleIggy March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 So the BF is the House Bolton sigil! ;-) 5 Link to comment
djinn March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 27 minutes ago, MarySNJ said: So somehow Dorothy and Ozma are sharing aspects of East's magic. It almost seems to me that Ozma had latent magic of her own that was very powerful and that was wakened by drinking East's spells. I haven't read the books and this is not the place for book discussions, but wasn't her mother extremely magical? In the show Ozma has managed to show a mass audience true past events and selectively erased lifetimes of memories from people. 14 minutes ago, theatremouse said: For example, Game of Thrones has a gajillion characters and ongoing plot threads, Game of Thrones also has a massive budget and many, many more hours. The first season of GoT alone had more time than this season of Emerald City (because: no ads on HBO). There are also many plot threads in GoT which are/were left quite sparsely developed (anything in Essos, Dorne, Iron Islands, etc.) I do agree, I would have liked a much better developed first season - with perhaps 16 episodes. Perhaps leave out some of the early West brothel scenes, the Anna-Wizard plot, etc. 1 Link to comment
theatremouse March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 I wasn't trying to get into a big GoT thing. I just meant that if Dorothy had been developed better, I wouldn't have forgotten she was even on the show, and that GoT is an example of a show that does that much better, even within a single season. Yes, they do drop things sometimes, sure. But that when that show sometimes shifts focus away from a certain area or plot, I still care enough and remember enough that it feels fresh when whatever thread does come back, and I'm generally still interested. Whereas they stepped away from Dorothy for about two episodes, and when she came back into focus, for me at least, it felt like "oh right, you're in this". Link to comment
phoenics March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 Oh I finally get the "mark"... In the books, doesn't Dorothy get kissed on the forehead by the Good Witch of the South and that protects her from harm? I think this was meant to be the same - and Karen got it too I guess in case she was lost too? I don't remember her having that mark though... just Dorothy. 1 Link to comment
JustS March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 2 hours ago, rollacoaster said: Apparently it is a thing: http://www.ehow.com/how_5607527_remove-walnut-stains-skin.html I never knew. Maybe Aunt Em's stained fingers was a symbol indicating Dorothy wasn't done with Oz or Oz isn't through with her. At least that's how I saw it. It was unexpected for me... 1 Link to comment
eelpout March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 17 hours ago, Senna said: Who is the Beast Forever? A skinless dude who can turn into a dragon thing, yeah, but *who* is he? Pinbacker, obviously. ;) 1 Link to comment
sjohnson March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 In the Kansas scenes, there were various things that were call backs to Oz characters. The walnut-stained fingers were hinting "West" was Aunt Em transmogrified in a dream. 2 Link to comment
tennisgurl March 4, 2017 Share March 4, 2017 This season was a bit of a mess at times, but I'm still glad I decided to watch it. The plot turned out to be something of a confusing mess by the end, the Dorothy plot totally fell apart, and there are TONS of threads left hanging, even though we don't know if we will be having a season 2, but it was very creative and visually fascinating in every episode. Every location was unique, and it really did feel like we were in a magical world, not just a medieval forest *cough Once Upon a Time cough*. It was well acted as well, even when the characters weren't super consistent. I also really liked the machine monkeys flying around Oz and spelling out Ozmas name. Nice allusion to the movie. You know, I think I missed that too in the last few episodes. The allusions and references to the original books or the movie were few and far between. Not that I wanted them to totally rely on making references to other versions of the story, as that would take away from this story, but it would have been nice to have a few more connections. This is an Oz story after all. And now we might not even have a Wizard anymore. Glinda is just the Wizard but from the other side. West and Ozma seem to be the ones who are going to be the heroes of the story, realizing that compromise between science and magic is the best way to rule the country, without trying to get rid of one or the other. Glinda is just the same boss, but with more whites and floral colors. Not sure how I feel about Jane being Dorothy's mom. It seems rather out of nowhere, and she looks nothing at all like Dorothy. But I do like Jane, so if this means we get more of her, I`ll be ok with it, I just hope she doesn't turn into some kind of sainted mother figure. She's cool as a mad scientist damn it. I also hope Jack shows up again. He`s turned out to be one of my favorite characters. Things will certainly have changed if and when Tip/Ozma and he meet up again. This certainly wasn't an amazing show, but it was very unique and I was never bored, so I will be back next season, if we get one. Just, can we get more Toto next season? #TeamToto 3 Link to comment
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