S07.E12: Feeding A Need

[zoeysmom]

35 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

It's really not that debatable. Most competent behavioral health professionals would consider a patient sober if the patient is taking appropriately prescribed medication for a mental illness that had been previously self-medicated with alcohol or another substance. If you're taking the meds as a substitute high, then that means the meds were misprescribed or diverted (obtained fraudulently or illegally). No decent doctor would prescribe meds that way. It has been a completely acceptable medical practice to treat an addict's underlying mental illness while also treating their addiction.

Enabling can sometimes be about giving money, but an easier way to think about it is the same way to think about any problem behaviors: is this action negatively impacting my life. If Kyle had to lie to cover for Kim or had to ignore her own needs or the needs of her family to attend to Kim, then that's enabling. If helping Kim has caused Kyle and Mauricio to argue more, that's enabling. If assisting Kim hasn't resulted in Kim exploring healthier behaviors, then it's probably enabling. Enabling is about actions that allow the addict to continue their behavior with fewer negative repercussions. For example, allowing Chad to live with the Umansky's could be enabling if Kim tends to try harder to keep sober when her kids are around. These aren't easy or simple distinctions and can sometimes be a little blurry.

I'm pissed that Rinna reignited this discussion instead of just concluding that Kim is just an asshole, who happens to be an addict.

Very succinct description.  Thank you.

I am assuming this is a hypothetical.  Chad is 25 years old and at the time he moved in with Kyle, he had been living on his own in Santa Monica, his mother had just been arrested for the second time, was moving out of her house and began her cycle of running away from rehab and going back in.  So living with Kim was not an option, she had no home.  Way back during the Brandi/Kyle argument, Chad was the unmentionable.  Chad comes with his own set of issues and is an adult, between living with the Davises and living with a Richards' relative, I think Kim would prefer her family but ultimately it is Chad's decision.  Where was Kathy?  Oh her kid missed his sister's wedding because he was on house arrest. 

I always thought the opposite was true about enabling like a spouse who wants out of a marriage but doesn't because their partner may start drinking again.  As you say. lines get blurry. 

[HunterHunted]

@zoeysmom

You're absolutely right about the emotional manipulation to stay in a relationship. That is enabling as well. I wanted get at those weird situations where you might want to look out for the kids, but still acknowledge that having the children around can be stabilizing for the addict. Part of why that is enabling is because the person who is coerced into staying feels like they are solely responsible for the addict's sobriety instead of the addict being responsible.

If we want to talk about enablers, Kathy Hilton is enabler in chief. Gives Kim carte blanche to be awful and defends Kim when her behavior is indefensible. 

Unfortunately, it's late and my brain works worse late at night.

[zoeysmom]

3 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

@zoeysmom

You're absolutely right about the emotional manipulation to stay in a relationship. That is enabling as well. I wanted get at those weird situations where you might want to look out for the kids, but still acknowledge that having the children around can be stabilizing for the addict. Part of why that is enabling is because the person who is coerced into staying feels like they are solely responsible for the addict's sobriety instead of the addict being responsible.

If we want to talk about enablers, Kathy Hilton is enabler in chief. Gives Kim carte blanche to be awful and defends Kim when her behavior is indefensible. 

Unfortunately, it's late and my brain works worse late at night.

I forgot to applaud you for your comment about Kim being an asshole who happens to be an addict.  I think Eden can join that club as well.

[Rosebud1970]

On February 21, 2017 at 7:02 PM, Straycat80 said:

This episode was a snoozefest.

I want LVP to adopt me. Just buy me a house or condo, I can decorate it myself.

Eden is kind of pathetic. She might be getting catfished and it was sad how hopeful she was that Kyle 'might' like her. 

Eden is mistaking politeness on Kyle's part for affection.

Because no.

[Maharincess]

22 hours ago, CrinkleCutCat said:

The low back on her dress exposed her boney spine (yes, spines ARE bones, but hers looks too boney!). Looking like a bag of bones without any youthful 'meat' on her body just ages her. Which is the opposite to the youthful look I presume she aspires to. How dreadful!

Some of us are just naturally very thin. There's nothing dreadful about us, we're just skinny.  I don't understand why fat shaming is so bad but to body shame somebody because they're thin is OK. 

I can't stand Rinna for many reasons but her weight isn't one of them. 

If she were mordibly obese would the skinny shamers be saying "oh my god she's so gross, I could see the fat blubber rolls when she was in that backless dress, how dreadful. She must eat constantly, she must shovel food into her mouth all day long" 

Somehow I doubt they would. I don't mean just here, it happens everywhere.  I get teary eyed coming here sometimes because it makes me feel like people think I look gross because I'm underweight. 

Edited February 23, 2017 by Maharincess

[CrinkleCutCat]

2 hours ago, Maharincess said:

Some of us are just naturally very thin. There's nothing dreadful about us, we're just skinny.  I don't understand why fat shaming is so bad but to body shame somebody because they're thin is OK. 

I can't stand Rinna for many reasons but her weight isn't one of them. 

If she were mordibly obese would the skinny shamers be saying "oh my god she's so gross, I could see the fat blubber rolls when she was in that backless dress, how dreadful. She must eat constantly, she must shovel food into her mouth all day long" 

Somehow I doubt they would. I don't mean just here, it happens everywhere.  I get teary eyed coming here sometimes because it makes me feel like people think I look gross because I'm underweight. 

Maharincess, You did not read my follow up post:

   21 HOURS AGO,  TATTLETEENY SAID: 

Ugh, come on. I get that people have aesthetic preferences for all things, but why do thin women have to be called "bag of bones"? We're all bags of bones--some bags are just not as..."quilted" (like a Vera Bradley, haha!). My "dreadful" spine, not to mention my pokey hipbones (those are definitely dreadful as far as repeatedly bumping into things), might actually like some quilting sometimes, but it doesn't seem to be in the cards, and never has. And I like my food.

But as far as mocking Rinna goes--ugh, yes, that fake laughing at her own lame jokes! It's not that she laughs at all (because that could be endearing in some ways), IMO, but that it's so clearly a forced laugh designed either to prompt others to laugh too, or to fill in the "silent but for imaginary crickets" response to her "humor." And the floppy hand-clapping and falling over sideways along with it. WTF?

My reply was:

Obviously, I'm not pointing out that all thin women are unattractive. Perhaps I should be clearer about my derision being based on Rinna's deliberate withholding of food to be so thin as opposed to naturally thin people. I dislike this worldwide trend that thinner is better.... and this is coming from me, who was nicknamed Annie (re anorexia) because I was so thin. "How dreadful" was a playful quote from what's his name on RH of Atlanta.

To reiterate:

I do not have a problem with naturally thin women, who would?? It's the women who starve themselves to create a thin body for some ridiculous ideal about youth and beauty that bothers me. Until I hit peri-menopause recently I have always been underweight....even after four children (I cheated, two were twins).

Now I'm catching myself on my own argument here: Why do I need to justify myself??!! I have to be thin, or previously thin, to 'get away' with critiquing a thin woman who starves herself in order to be thin (Hollywood beautiful)?

Ps. If societal norms were that luscious weight were the ideal and a naturally thin woman was over feeding herself to meet those norms, well then, yes...your argument about an overweight woman being derided would stand up. Dare I say it, in the spirit of being jestful on a forum we all partake in for entertainment, your argument would have weight.

pps. You do NOT look gross because you are underweight sweetheart! Been there, felt the same! I struggle daily about wishing I was still there!

Edited February 23, 2017 by CrinkleCutCat
Self reflection = extra words required

[Cassye1021]

2 hours ago, Maharincess said:

Some of us are just naturally very thin. There's nothing dreadful about us, we're just skinny.  I don't understand why fat shaming is so bad but to body shame somebody because they're thin is OK. 

I can't stand Rinna for many reasons but her weight isn't one of them. 

If she were mordibly obese would the skinny shamers be saying "oh my god she's so gross, I could see the fat blubber rolls when she was in that backless dress, how dreadful. She must eat constantly, she must shovel food into her mouth all day long" 

Somehow I doubt they would. I don't mean just here, it happens everywhere.  I get teary eyed coming here sometimes because it makes me feel like people think I look gross because I'm underweight. 

They do. 

[snowblossom2]

14 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

This is my best attempt at describing the Munchausen crapfest.  Kyle, Mauricio, Rinna and Harry were out to dinner and Rinna brought up Munchausens.  I believe at the time it had far more to do with Rinna objecting to the fact Yolanda was given a big fat contract to film in her bathrobe and participate whenever she saw fit.

So after the dinner conversation, Kyle passed the information to LVP.  LVP being a good soldier of production apparently told Rinna to express her feelings on camera.  There is a pretty staged moment when Rinna drops the "M" bomb and Kyle and LVP recoil.  So according to Rinna LVP raced after her, according to LVP she walked Rinna out of her home and Rinna went into a diatribe of "what have I done?". 

Rinna then went to Yolanda to try and clear stuff up and Yolanda wasn't buying it.  So Yolanda went to the Erika BBQ and vented.  LVP and Kyle made a major mistake of trying to reel Yolanda in and say it had nothing to do with Munchausen's by Proxy and Yolanda went off and screamed at LVP how dare you defend her.

Rinna with no way out, ,first went after  Yoanda and said she was the most manipulative person in the world.  After some coaching and couching from Eileen, who was still pissed off at LVP for her affair comment decided it was all LVP's fault and Kyle was a dolt for not backing their game.  So Rinna most likely rewrote history and really screwed up LVP's vacation in Dubai. 

It gets worse, because at the finale at Kyle's desert home, Rinna pounces on Yolanda to explain herself and Yolanda's take away is LVP started the Munchausen discussion.  Rinna in her blog, then said it was her and Yolanda was mistaken-LVP didn't bring it up it was RInna.

Then in Dubai Rinna claims that Yolanda and LVP hate each other and poor Rinna is dealing with two highly narcisstic  people. 

Rinna not being satisfied with burying LVP, decides that LVP said out the gate at her birthday party, that Yolanda's Lyme Disease would be the season's entire season's storyline.  Something neither the cameras, Kyle or LVP can endorse,

So at this point is Rinna a reliable source?

I think most people just let things drop unless someone is sleeping with your husband.  

Obviously, LVP feels some vindication because Rinna has now proven herself to be an unreliable historian.

This is the most clear and cohesive account of what likely happened off camera and how it coincided with what we saw on camera. Thank you! brava!

[SunnyBeBe]

I really have mixed feelings about now.   I recall what Lisa R. said to Eden when they were shopping about Kim being close to death and Kyle being an enabler,. HOWEVER, Eden had already said that she picked up on something before then, right?  Has anyone rewatched the episodes before that?  Eden had formed an opinion and had a mission before that conversation.  So, to blame it on Lisa R. seems a stretch.  

Still, Lisa R. did say it.  I'm on Lisa R.'s side on this, HOWEVER, I don't buy that she forgot that she said those things.  I don't see how she could have forgotten.  I suspect that she's saying that due to not wanting to face the confrontation.   I could defend what she said and here's why. Being sober and being in recovery are two different things. Maybe there are things about Kim that scream that she's not doing so well. We all know how she's lied before.  And Kim's acting out does say this. (She was arrested. It's a fact.)  PLUS, she never seems willing to address her recovery.  Does she ever say she's in recovery or that she's sober.  There is a difference. Perhaps, Lisa R. needs to acquaint herself with those terms so she gets it right, if she's going to discuss Kim's status. 

And the comment about Kyle being an enabler.  I'd stand on that one. She obviously is.  She's admitted it multiple times on tv. And a huge indicator that it's true is that Kyle doesn't know what an enabler is.  In this episode she questions what one is and asked, "What does that mean, that I put a drink in her (Kim's) hand?"  With all their history with Kim and substance abuse and Kyle has never obtained adequate education on substance abuse and enabling.....It boggles the mind. Kyle should be very well versed on terminology and protocol for alcoholics and their families in recovery.  It's sad she has chosen to stay so ignorant on the matter.  She's not helping herself or Kim with this put your head in the sand approach.  

I will hand Kyle this.  She showed real class by attending Lisa R.'s fundraiser/tribute event.  AND she did it with a good attitude. That shows me class and maybe a little bit of acknowledging that Lisa R. isn't so far off.  But, Lisa R. needs to take note of that good deed by Kyle and adjust herself.  She needs to figure out another way to be the villain on this show, as the Kim alcoholic/addict story has grown old.  She'll need to get something else.  I can't believe I'm saying this, as I don't really like Lisa R.  But, she is amusing me this season.  lol

I don't believe all this illness with Eileen. What's really going on? 

Edited February 23, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Almost 3000]

8 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Rinna has pretty screwed up thinking when it comes to tough love.  The idea is you stop supporting the person and their using behavior until they perish or take steps to get well.  The idea that Kyle has to tough love Kim because she doesn't get along with Rinna is ludicrous.  The whole world would be a better place if everyone behaved exactly how I wanted them to attitude is what Rinna subscribes to.

Didn't Rinna say she only saw her parents about once a year and also let her half sister care for them? I keep thinking Rinna gave her parents a big old helping of tough love because she didn't want to enable their advancing age and Demetria. Rinna doesn't like dealing with people's limitations unless she can use it as a storyline.

eta: I also think Kyle does know what enabling is but she just doesn't want to get into the semantics of it with the other cast members definition of it. She's in a no win situation with them so she fanes a bit of ignorance. She's really in a tough place and I've always been sympathetic to her.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Almost 3000

[TattleTeeny]

As far as Erika's marriage, I am not naive enough to declare that it is an epic love poem come to life or that money has nothing to do with it. But I will say that it doesn't appear (to me!) to be anything sinister or even shady. Maybe it is an arrangement based on financial security and companionship (which, fine--if both parties know that, who cares?). But maybe they are actually in love (in whatever way they define "in love"). If Tom is some big-time important dude who has to keep his image in check in front of his colleagues and their spouses, would he all-out marry someone that might rock that boat--especially someone who is a combination of significantly younger, a bit out there comparatively, and probably pretty provocative in terms of "socially acceptable" behavior? Probably not, I'd guess.  

Some people are not that concerned with being head-over-heels in love with a partner and instead just want an acceptable, likeminded person with whom they can obtain the other trappings that a marriage/partnership can bring. I myself am not one of those people, but I do have a few peers who operate that way. 

Edited February 23, 2017 by TattleTeeny

[mochamajesty]

Could someone please tell me what a CB is (in reference to Erika)? 

[noveltylibrary65]

This is taking too long to get to where everyone realizes what a fat-lipped liar Rinna is!! 

Also of course she had to overhear Kyle and Eden deciding to get together for a talk.  "Yes let's ALL get together.  That would be GOOD."  UGGGH

[Normades]

13 hours ago, wings707 said:

Rant alert.

AA gave birth to the term enable/enabler in regard to those in an alcoholics life.  AA is an organization based on shame and blame.  So let's nail the drunk AND those who love them!  The word and the organization (AA) are ineffectual.  The word dysfunctional is also and AA term used to describe what happens when an alcoholic in the family stops drinking and everyone in said family no longer functions well do to their changed roles.  It is NOT meant to describe just any family with problems.  The constant misuse drives me up a wall.  

It is up to the alcoholic to stop drinking regardless of how those in their life behave. 

Off soap box, carry on with this nonsense if you insist (directed at Rinna and Eden). 

I have some experience with AA/NA and while I’ve seen some groups who use a lot of shame, I’ve seen many miracles, too.  I don’t define dysfunctional solely according to your definition, but as it has been said before enabling/dysfunction/addiction are very blurry and gray areas.  I’ve seen a lot of love and support and lives saved by these organizations, so my opinion of them is anything but ineffectual. 

You are right that it is up to the alcoholic to stop drinking, regardless of those around them, but there are things that the family can learn to help support the person in recovery and eliminate behaviors that might be triggering or detrimental.  Everyone has their own path and what works for one may not work for another.  There are those who have benefited greatly from AA/NA and I would hate for someone suffering to be discouraged from checking them out.

Sorry for the rant.  Back to the trivial crazy ladies and their diamonds!!

[Wings]

17 minutes ago, Normades said:

I have some experience with AA/NA and while I’ve seen some groups who use a lot of shame, I’ve seen many miracles, too.  I don’t define dysfunctional solely according to your definition, but as it has been said before enabling/dysfunction/addiction are very blurry and gray areas.  I’ve seen a lot of love and support and lives saved by these organizations, so my opinion of them is anything but ineffectual. 

You are right that it is up to the alcoholic to stop drinking, regardless of those around them, but there are things that the family can learn to help support the person in recovery and eliminate behaviors that might be triggering or detrimental.  Everyone has their own path and what works for one may not work for another.  There are those who have benefited greatly from AA/NA and I would hate for someone suffering to be discouraged from checking them out.

Sorry for the rant.  Back to the trivial crazy ladies and their diamonds!!

Differing takes on this topic abound.  Thanks for another point of view. 

  I think we can agree that Kim and Kyle are none of Rinna's business!! 

Edited February 23, 2017 by wings707

[TattleTeeny]

I hate rice cakes. 

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I really have mixed feelings about now.   I recall what Lisa R. said to Eden when they were shopping about Kim being close to death and Kyle being an enabler,. HOWEVER, Eden had already said that she picked up on something before then, right?  Has anyone rewatched the episodes before that?  Eden had formed an opinion and had a mission before that conversation.  So, to blame it on Lisa R. seems a stretch.  

Still, Lisa R. did say it.  I'm on Lisa R.'s side on this, HOWEVER, I don't buy that she forgot that she said those things.  I don't see how she could have forgotten.  I suspect that she's saying that due to not wanting to face the confrontation.   I could defend what she said and here's why. Being sober and being in recovery are two different things. Maybe there are things about Kim that scream that she's not doing so well. We all know how she's lied before.  And Kim's acting out does say this. (She was arrested. It's a fact.)  PLUS, she never seems willing to address her recovery.  Does she ever say she's in recovery or that she's sober.  There is a difference. Perhaps, Lisa R. needs to acquaint herself with those terms so she gets it right, if she's going to discuss Kim's status. 

And the comment about Kyle being an enabler.  I'd stand on that one. She obviously is.  She's admitted it multiple times on tv. And a huge indicator that it's true is that Kyle doesn't know what an enabler is.  In this episode she questions what one is and asked, "What does that mean, that I put a drink in her (Kim's) hand?"  With all their history with Kim and substance abuse and Kyle has never obtained adequate education on substance abuse and enabling.....It boggles the mind. Kyle should be very well versed on terminology and protocol for alcoholics and their families in recovery.  It's sad she has chosen to stay so ignorant on the matter.  She's not helping herself or Kim with this put your head in the sand approach.  

I will hand Kyle this.  She showed real class by attending Lisa R.'s fundraiser/tribute event.  AND she did it with a good attitude. That shows me class and maybe a little bit of acknowledging that Lisa R. isn't so far off.  But, Lisa R. needs to take note of that good deed by Kyle and adjust herself.  She needs to figure out another way to be the villain on this show, as the Kim alcoholic/addict story has grown old.  She'll need to get something else.  I can't believe I'm saying this, as I don't really like Lisa R.  But, she is amusing me this season.  lol

I don't believe all this illness with Eileen. What's really going on? 

The most important thing is Kim is not drinking.  Kim has been clear, she will not discuss the program she is in as it is contrary to the tenets of the program she is working.  What sober means to one person and to another person is on that person.  When all else fails go by the dictionary definition.  As to Kyle, just like LVP an the others they are not professing to know it all about addiction.  We have no idea how much Kyle knows about alcoholics and their families in recovery. As to the terminology, I understood it to mean Kim and Kyle were denying Kyle being an enabler-as in what is she accusing me of? The last person to appear on the show that seemed to grasp addiction was Brandi's friend Jennifer and she stayed out of Kim's life and counseled Brandi on her concerns. I don't think it is a put their heads in the sand approach as much as it is the "none of your f*cking business approach."

In my own little reality I am as interested in another's recovery journey as I am in their finding a religion and spreading the word, the wonderful world of multi-level marketing, or Catya and Eden Sassoon's relationship. The tone of Rinna's accusations about Kyle being an enabler leads me to believe she doesn't realize or it is intentional that she is using them in a pejorative sense and  insulting Kyle.  I have always wondered about these women and if someone suffered from say Bi-polar disorder, depression or some form of mental illness if they would be so quick to throw out their arm chair diagnoses about another's treatment, personality or success in dealing with it. 

This is from Rinna's blog:  ". . . . what I find odd is how Kyle continues this now very long game of telephone with Kim."  She continues with, "My original intent of explaining the dynamics of the Richards sisters to Eden, who asked me how she could help out in this situation has now been mangled into dirty, vicious gossip."  Just my opinion but does Rinna understand the meaning of any of these words? 

I don't think anyone would agree more than Kim that her sobriety storyline is old and they need to move on.  Granted becoming a grandma isn't exactly scintillating but it is where Kim is in her life.

Edited February 23, 2017 by zoeysmom

[eurekagirl mOo]

On 2/22/2017 at 9:46 AM, njbchlover said:

Especially if Max has ANY of the Vanderpump Rules crew over to his new condo, or if he lets his good buddy, James, stay over.  I could totally see James "using" Max's condo, telling his most recent hook-up that it is his own apartment.

I think it's great that Lisa wants to help Max out, and has the means to do so, but I don't think a $1500.00 couch is the right thing for a 24 year old.  As someone said upthread - maybe a nice leather sofa, with some recliners built-in.  I know - not the most upscale of furnishings, but that's what young guys want.  I know - I have two of them (young guys, not recliner sofas, LOL!), and their idea of nice furniture is completely opposite of mine.  A leather sectional with recliners and built-in cup holders, a coffee table that has a top that can pull up to table height, so they can eat comfortably on that sofa, flat screen TV mounted on the wall, and a kegerator in the corner is their idea of a perfect living room!  :-)

I'm a 58 year old woman and,minus the keg, it sounds great to me!

[zoeysmom]

LVP in  her biggest fear in joining the show:  http://people.com/celebrity/lisa-vanderpump-reveals-big-fear-joining-rhobh/  Her son's adoption.

[zoeysmom]

LVP on how she forewarned Kyle, Eden wanted to taqlk to her again and promised Kyle she would repeat the conversation, which LVP correctly assumed would be about Kim and Kyle:  http://toofab.com/2017/02/21/rhobh-lisa-rinna-vs-eden-sassoon-lisa-vanderpump-reveals-what-you-didnt-see-on-tv-exclusive/

Eden not over being hurt by Rinna:  http://toofab.com/2017/02/21/eden-sassoon-hurt-by-lisa-rinna-over-rhobh-feud-far-from-trusting-her-again-exclusive/

A lot of blah, blah, blah how she is helping 20 people a day with her story.  More interesting, to me, is Rinna tells very serious Eden, "it is just a show."

[jaync]

Quote

After all these years Kyle is so uneducated about the disease that is actually killing her sister? She doesn't know what an enabler is? 

For some reason, Kyle thinks it's cute to feign ignorance. It's similar to when she lost her shit after Brandi made the meth accusation, only to later act as if she'd never even heard of the drug. Just unnecessarily dumb.

Quote

They are comfortable with the choices they made.

That's great, because they sure don't act like they're all that comfortable with each other. That lunch scene was like a customer meeting up with his favorite stripper outside of the club for the first time. It's no wonder they choose to spend only one night a week together.

Quote

I think the no food thing comes from the fact that Rinna calls herself a "dirty vegan" and is often seen passing on food that contains dairy, eggs or animal proteins. 

So, she doesn't eat HarryHamlin's meat?

Quote

It's weird and creepy when people are so obsessed with other people's weights.

As is being obsessed with other people's opinions about other people's weights.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

As is being obsessed with other people's opinions about other people's weights.

I would agree if I saw anyone in here doing that.

[zoeysmom]

Boy Eden is an interview a day type of RH:  http://toofab.com/2017/02/22/eden-sassoon-blasts-kyle-richards-over-obsession-remarks-on-rhobh-exclusive/

Kyle may have a point over you obsessing over she and Kim, if you give an interview about it and then claim, Kyle wants to be obsessed over and she would never obsess over Kyle or Kim because her father was so famous. 

So would it be inaccurate to say, given Eden's description of sober women come from a loving, kind place that perhaps Eden is not sober by her own definition?  What is the difference with Kim wanting to address the admitted mean and intentional comments Rinna made about her and what Eden is doing?

[Jel]

10 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Oh, Ok. According to Lisa/Ken, Max has worked hard and they felt this was a way to reward him for that hard work like they did Pandora. Maybe there is a subconscious fear/terror in that Max will want his birth parents more than them but I do believe that this is more about him working hard at the restaurants and on the VPR show than anything else. I also think Lisa/Ken support him searching for the BPs because they know it is important to him, which makes it important to them.

Agree, WW. I don't think one has to be a master of non verbal cue reading to see that Max loves his parents and they love him.  I feel confident saying that Lisa has no competition with Max's birth mother in the mother love department, and she has no need to buy him a condo or anything else to retain her status as him mom. I think her reaction is quite normal for an adoptive parent, and if she really were a manipulative shrew, she'd be saying things more along the lines of, "How could you be interested in them, the people who abandoned you" etc. etc. to secure her position, not buying and furnishing a condo for him.  I agree, they feel Max is on track, she wanted to do something like this for both kids, not just one, and since he's maturing, now is the time.

TL;DR Lisa doesn't need to buy Max's love.

[SunnyBeBe]

I have my issues with just about everybody on this show, save the guys and pets, but, I just get a weird vibe from Eden.  I'm not saying that I don't like her....yet.  I will keep an open mind, but, something just seems off.   I know she's suffered a lot and she has her own addiction issues, so, maybe that explains it.  The way things are going though.....I'm not sure she'll be invited back.  

[zoeysmom]

3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I have my issues with just about everybody on this show, save the guys and pets, but, I just get a weird vibe from Eden.  I'm not saying that I don't like her....yet.  I will keep an open mind, but, something just seems off.   I know she's suffered a lot and she has her own addiction issues, so, maybe that explains it.  The way things are going though.....I'm not sure she'll be invited back.  

I know this sounds odd but in the not so infrequent interviews Eden gives, she makes the Reunion sound like the Super Bowl of RH events.  Short of her losing a limb or something, I cannot see Rinna wanting to share the stage for long. I see her as perhaps a one segment participant in the Reunion and pretty close to zero chances of returning next year.  Well there might be a fabulous beach vacation spot where they have a bonfire and the returning RH burn her in effigy.    

Kyle mentioned in an interview last week, that as the season has unfolded she has wanted to call Eden, but then Eden mean tweets Kyle  and she is disinclined to reach out. 

She also gives way too many interviews.

[Normades]

1 hour ago, wings707 said:

Differing takes on this topic abound.  Thanks for another point of view. 

  I think we can agree that Kim and Kyle are none of Rinna's business!! 

Thanks, wings707!!  It's nice that we can have different opinions and handle it with grace and respect.  That's what makes this board enjoyable.  

And, yes we can definitely agree on Kim/Kyle/Rinna!!!

[Almost 3000]

58 minutes ago, eurekagirl mOo said:

I'm a 58 year old woman and,minus the keg, it sounds great to me!

Oh, you need the frig for your sparkling waters and Champagne! (or whatevers) ;^)

[Almost 3000]

2 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Some people are not that concerned with being head-over-heels in love with a partner and instead just want an acceptable, likeminded person with whom they can obtain the other trappings that a marriage/partnership can bring. I myself am not one of those people, but I do have a few peers who operate that way. 

I've always believed people marry for a combination of love, companionship and lifestyle but they just think saying its about lifestyle is mercenary so its always about the love...

[zoeysmom]

Here is what Kim and Kyle want to talk about: 

Brooke the mother of Kim's grandson.

I just thought I would throw these photos up for people to see how these two have aged.  Kim looks so very happy and wholesome.  Kyle's bathing suit-post Farrah.  I remember the bathing suit style. 

See talking about Kim becoming a grandma is just not all that interesting.

[AndySmith]

Quote

That's great, because they sure don't act like they're all that comfortable with each other. That lunch scene was like a customer meeting up with his favorite stripper outside of the club for the first time. It's no wonder they choose to spend only one night a week together.

Different strokes, I guess...I see them as being very comfortable with each other, and both seem to enjoy each other's company.

[KungFuBunny]

Lisa Rinna hates Kim Richards and Kim Richards hates Lisa Rinna. Kim reminds me of Caroline Manzo in the sense that she gives anyone new to her circle both the side eye and the stink eye. She did this with Taylor, Brandi and Lisa Rinna. She also due to whatever can snipe at someone she is friendly with out of the blue. Rinna’s lunging for Kim in Amsterdam reminded me of Kyle’s lunge in the limo – both were precipitated by Kim alluding to unsavory acts by their respective husbands. For Kyle it was the implication that Mauricio stole her goddamn house and he is in the realty business. For Rinna, I dunno what is was other than I know something about your hubby that will ruin your public image.

Rinna never got over it and she never moved forward. The problem is she has said she wants to move forward and she even said she already did. When she said at Game night, let’s talk about your arrest she should not have apologized to Kim. I guess she will blame Lisa V for manipulating her into an apology. She should have just said, yeah you wanna fight I’ll get down in the gutter with you.

Rinna saying to Eden, Kyle enables her, Kim is mostly sober, and Kim is this close to death was Rinna lobbying for people to be on her side (in this case Eden) Eden already expressed she felt coldness from both Kyle and Kim. So this information from Rinna just “validated” Eden’s own opinion. I don’t think what Rinna said was so “horrible”, it’s been discussed many times. Catty and bitchy comments are gonna be made on this show whether it plays out in a scene or in their TH shots. It will be even cattier and bitchier if it’s with someone you can’t stand. My stance is you’ve got 2 assholes that hate each other, of course they are gonna shit, shart and fart at each other any chance they get.

Rinna remembers. She probably discussed this with her publicist or Harry as soon as they filmed the boutique scene and made a mutual agreement on how they would play this. She chose her path and she is staying firm. I can picture Rinna at the reunion saying a few weeks earlier to that scene, my doctor had prescribed Ambien. One of the side effects is sleepwalking – apparently it affected me in my waking stage too…I seriously don’t remember.

I also think Kyle will forgive Rinna and remain friends with her as her own fuck you to Kim for remaining friends with Brandi.

[Booger666]

22 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Well, we did have Kathryn (last season), who has known Rinna for years, saying that Rinna doesn't eat.

I had totally forgotten about Kathryn until your post. Interesting that we see Camille, Taylor, and other HWs from the past pop up occasionally, but I don't think we've heard or seen anything of Kathryn. Do they all hate her?

[AndySmith]

We haven't seen Joyce or Carlton either since they left, and they were both on years before Kathryn. I think it depends on Bravo and Andy as much as it does on the women themselves.

Also, Camille and Adrienne didn't appear in the seasons right after they left as well.

Edited February 23, 2017 by AndySmith

[HunterHunted]

3 minutes ago, Booger666 said:

I had totally forgotten about Kathryn until your post. Interesting that we see Camille, Taylor, and other HWs from the past pop up occasionally, but I don't think we've heard or seen anything of Kathryn. Do they all hate her?

I think Kathryn just lives too far away. Taylor is farther away, but if she happens to be in LA when they're filming, you know she'll agree to film. Kathryn is in San Diego. It's 2 hours away if everyone in the LA area has been raptured. I have made trips between the two cities when it's been much much longer. Additionally, there are some women that we've never seen again after their first seasons. 

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Kyle's bathing suit-post Farrah.  I remember the bathing suit style. 

Oof, me too! That high-cut leg, man--when I see photos now, I find it so unappealing!

[chick binewski]

4 hours ago, snowblossom2 said:

This is the most clear and cohesive account of what likely happened off camera and how it coincided with what we saw on camera. Thank you! brava!

Agreed. After @zoeysmom 's Munchhausen bullet points I'm tempted to ask her to break down the planets those scientists found this week.

2 hours ago, Almost 3000 said:

Didn't Rinna say she only saw her parents about once a year and also let her half sister care for them? I keep thinking Rinna gave her parents a big old helping of tough love because she didn't want to enable their advancing age and Demetria. Rinna doesn't like dealing with people's limitations unless she can use it as a storyline.

 

7 hours ago, Maharincess said:

Some of us are just naturally very thin. There's nothing dreadful about us, we're just skinny.  I don't understand why fat shaming is so bad but to body shame somebody because they're thin is OK. 

To me these are two Rinna issues that are tied together. Rinna seems to be a woman who regards a)appearance as the most important thing and b)self-reflection as personal kryptonite. Illness in any form makes her extremely uncomfortable. And @Maharincess I know you had more to say regarding body-shaming (which is never OK and I agree with some of your points) but Rinna's weight does not make me uncomfortable; her behavior and words indicating she sees excess weight as an unforgivable character flaw is what makes me uncomfortable. I know I can't speak for everyone here but I think that may be why some of us address her food behaviors with some derision. 

2 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Some people are not that concerned with being head-over-heels in love with a partner and instead just want an acceptable, likeminded person with whom they can obtain the other trappings that a marriage/partnership can bring. I myself am not one of those people, but I do have a few peers who operate that way. 

I know several others have mentioned the marriage with similar thoughts throughout this thread so please don't think I'm singling you out - I just pulled your quote b/c I find the attitude Erika projects (not necessarily the vamping and the zero f*cks stuff; more the directness and understanding) to be in complete conflict with her relationship. Tom lights up when LVP or Gigi walks in a room, but when Erika appears it's like the neighbor he never speaks to comes over to awkwardly hand him some mis-delivered mail. The major flag for me (and this may be in part due to some of my own crap) is the "I can't buy my own (fill in the blank)" and the more problematic "I'm not allowed to (fill in the blank)". If a husband & wife have rules between them to help their lives run smoothly or to prevent discord I get it. But this stuff sounds more...parental? Businesslike? I'm just uneasy watching them. Although - their old pictures make me curious b/c Erika appears a bit more engaged. She also appears to look a bit like Emma Thompson, imo. 

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

I hate rice cakes. 

Well, that's just common sense.

[Jel]

11 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

 Tom lights up when LVP or Gigi walks in a room, but when Erika appears it's like the neighbor he never speaks to comes over to awkwardly hand him some mis-delivered mail.

This had me guffawing. There is, to my eye, something very uncomfortable about their on camera interactions. I thought the lunch came across more as an awkward first date between two people who are each secretly thinking, "Uhm, nope" than a 20 something years married couple. 

I don't care what their arrangement is, true love, convenience, whatever it is is not my business, but they do seem to lack the easy communication of the long married couples I know. (Sometimes that's easy bickering too, btw!)

Edited February 23, 2017 by Jel

[zoeysmom]

11 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

Lisa Rinna hates Kim Richards and Kim Richards hates Lisa Rinna. Kim reminds me of Caroline Manzo in the sense that she gives anyone new to her circle both the side eye and the stink eye. She did this with Taylor, Brandi and Lisa Rinna. She also due to whatever can snipe at someone she is friendly with out of the blue. Rinna’s lunging for Kim in Amsterdam reminded me of Kyle’s lunge in the limo – both were precipitated by Kim alluding to unsavory acts by their respective husbands. For Kyle it was the implication that Mauricio stole her goddamn house and he is in the realty business. For Rinna, I dunno what is was other than I know something about your hubby that will ruin your public image.

Rinna never got over it and she never moved forward. The problem is she has said she wants to move forward and she even said she already did. When she said at Game night, let’s talk about your arrest she should not have apologized to Kim. I guess she will blame Lisa V for manipulating her into an apology. She should have just said, yeah you wanna fight I’ll get down in the gutter with you.

Rinna saying to Eden, Kyle enables her, Kim is mostly sober, and Kim is this close to death was Rinna lobbying for people to be on her side (in this case Eden) Eden already expressed she felt coldness from both Kyle and Kim. So this information from Rinna just “validated” Eden’s own opinion. I don’t think what Rinna said was so “horrible”, it’s been discussed many times. Catty and bitchy comments are gonna be made on this show whether it plays out in a scene or in their TH shots. It will be even cattier and bitchier if it’s with someone you can’t stand. My stance is you’ve got 2 assholes that hate each other, of course they are gonna shit, shart and fart at each other any chance they get.

Rinna remembers. She probably discussed this with her publicist or Harry as soon as they filmed the boutique scene and made a mutual agreement on how they would play this. She chose her path and she is staying firm. I can picture Rinna at the reunion saying a few weeks earlier to that scene, my doctor had prescribed Ambien. One of the side effects is sleepwalking – apparently it affected me in my waking stage too…I seriously don’t remember.

I also think Kyle will forgive Rinna and remain friends with her as her own fuck you to Kim for remaining friends with Brandi.

I so agree with this.  Rinna should have never said she had an epiphany after her father died and how she views things.  She held herself up to an impossible standard for to keep.  People who have impulse control issues should never make these kind of promises.

What Rinna calls people pleasing has blossomed into full blown bullshit. 

What Rinna and Eileen fail to cobble together is Rinna has released so much methane into the air with her attempts to redeem herself that she leaves the target and even her supporters confused.  She said to Kim, "I love you Kim," when a simple compliment about Kim being a mother or even friend to Brandi and Yolanda would have sufficed.  Going shopping with Kim became LVP's fault. Rinna was packing her bags in Amsterdam and I believe production told her, "no way", you have a contract.  After those conversations she turned around, told Kyle what Brandi had said about Kim, and gave Kyle permission to repeat it, refused to back Kyle, then sent Kim the threatening texts. 

Rinna statements in themselves, weren't horrific, compared to saying, you use a strap-on, on your husband, or ask if the rumor is did your husband fuck the dog, but it was the breach of the promises to discontinue with the talk of Kim.  I think Eden would have run with her intensity of Kim's alcoholism regardless of whether or not Rinna said anything.  She even pretty much said as much to her mother.

Rinna just has this way of saying stuff in the most Draconian terms and then tries to soften the blows by either deflection or claiming it was out of context, or the worst one it wasn't her intention.  What I dislike about it the most is she gives Kim a platform as being the reasonable one.

I sometimes think Kyle's friendship with Rinna and LVP, is a major issue for Eileen.  Eileen is rarely even cordial to Kyle. 

Interesting take on the Ambien, except they need to deny the use of drugs to amp up a storyline with Dorit bringing up Rinna's pill usage.

I think season by season the friendship between Rinna and Kyle will slowly erode.

[AndySmith]

Quote

I sometimes think Kyle's friendship with Rinna and LVP, is a major issue for Eileen.  Eileen is rarely even cordial to Kyle. 

Kyle and Eileen seem to be getting along well this season, the few times we've seen  them interact. I don't think there are any real issues between the two of them. 

[Carolina Girl]

6 hours ago, snowblossom2 said:

This is the most clear and cohesive account of what likely happened off camera and how it coincided with what we saw on camera. Thank you! brava!

Let me echo that sentiment!  I didn't get an opportunity to express my thanks.

[zoeysmom]

25 minutes ago, AndySmith said:

Kyle and Eileen seem to be getting along well this season, the few times we've seen  them interact. I don't think there are any real issues between the two of them. 

They just never interact.  Kyle showed for the first lunch and granted interrupting Eileen's family death updates and basically just told her they were discussing something serious.  Eileen asked about Kim, as if she cares, and then makes faces about going to Game Night at Kyle's.  Had no interaction with her in Mexico. 

The issue between the two of them is Eileen dislikes Kyle for not abandoning LVP over her comments to Eileen, or the manipulating Munchausen's mess.  Eileen pretty much called Kyle a simpleton in Dubai.  Just an observation, I think Eileen just doesn't have it to give anymore.  She seems rather robotic.  And her blogs blow.

[AndySmith]

Quote

Kyle showed for the first lunch and granted interrupting Eileen's family death updates and basically just told her they were discussing something serious. 

Wouldn't that make Kyle the one who wasn't cordial? And whether or not Eileen cares about Kim, asking about her was gracious and nice enough.

They have interacted a few times over the current season, at various points. None of it seemed to have a bad vibe, unlike what we've seen between Eileen and LVP. I do remember a few times in Mexico after Kyle grilled LisaR that we saw Kyle and Elieen interact,, and they seemed to be on Ok terms. I just don't see the dislike between Kyle and Eileen this season. They seemed to have moved on from the drama of last season.

Edited February 23, 2017 by AndySmith

[Wings]

49 minutes ago, AndySmith said:

Kyle and Eileen seem to be getting along well this season, the few times we've seen  them interact. I don't think there are any real issues between the two of them. 

Eileen is always sitting poised and ready.  Ever watch a cat look disinterested until THEY WERE.  SLAM KABOOM!   

[Giselle]

5 hours ago, mochamajesty said:

Could someone please tell me what a CB is (in reference to Erika)? 

The hell if I know. 

[Natalie68]

10 hours ago, Maharincess said:

Some of us are just naturally very thin. There's nothing dreadful about us, we're just skinny.  I don't understand why fat shaming is so bad but to body shame somebody because they're thin is OK. 

I can't stand Rinna for many reasons but her weight isn't one of them. 

If she were mordibly obese would the skinny shamers be saying "oh my god she's so gross, I could see the fat blubber rolls when she was in that backless dress, how dreadful. She must eat constantly, she must shovel food into her mouth all day long" 

Somehow I doubt they would. I don't mean just here, it happens everywhere.  I get teary eyed coming here sometimes because it makes me feel like people think I look gross because I'm underweight. 

I used to be quite heavy and had a very small friend who wore a zero/2.   I said something about her being skinny or made a comment when she complained about her pants being too tight and she opened my eyes to this.  She said it doesn't matter what size your pants are when they get too tight and how she would never fat shame anyone so why people feel free to comment when someone is perceived as too skinny is mind boggling.  I stopped and thought about it and agreed.  Then I lost a ton of weight and had my own experience with people telling me I was too skinny.  It IS just as bad.  The only comment I will make to someone is they look fabulous.  Or if we are super close, tell them if asked if something is flattering.  But never unsolicited comments.  I am sorry people can be insensitive!

[Wings]

15 minutes ago, Giselle said:

The hell if I know. 

My guess for CB is.  C the word we are not allowed to type unless quoting someone and B for bitch?  I don't think it is an expression, just two words the poster put together and used the letters for instead?   

[Wings]

2 minutes ago, QuiteContraryMoni said:

That's what I was thinking too. BTW, are we really not allowed to use the C word??

I have used it before with no problem but I read somewhere, I think in this forum rules, that you cannot.  Each forum is a little different with this.  For me it is just another swear word carrying no more weight than another but some women think it is the worst word ever on the face of the planet.   We really need to de-sensitize this word by not reacting strongly.  It is women who are perpetrating its "horror."  

[crgirl412]

15 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

It's really not that debatable. Most competent behavioral health professionals would consider a patient sober if the patient is taking appropriately prescribed medication for a mental illness that had been previously self-medicated with alcohol or another substance. If you're taking the meds as a substitute high, then that means the meds were misprescribed or diverted (obtained fraudulently or illegally). No decent doctor would prescribe meds that way. It has been a completely acceptable medical practice to treat an addict's underlying mental illness while also treating their addiction.

Enabling can sometimes be about giving money, but an easier way to think about it is the same way to think about any problem behaviors: is this action negatively impacting my life. If Kyle had to lie to cover for Kim or had to ignore her own needs or the needs of her family to attend to Kim, then that's enabling. If helping Kim has caused Kyle and Mauricio to argue more, that's enabling. If assisting Kim hasn't resulted in Kim exploring healthier behaviors, then it's probably enabling. Enabling is about actions that allow the addict to continue their behavior with fewer negative repercussions. For example, allowing Chad to live with the Umansky's could be enabling if Kim tends to try harder to keep sober when her kids are around. These aren't easy or simple distinctions and can sometimes be a little blurry.

I'm pissed that Rinna reignited this discussion instead of just concluding that Kim is just an asshole, who happens to be an addict.

This is all true.  Thanks for explaining it so well. 

I wanted to add: It's true that years ago the belief was to be clean and sober, you took no meds for mental/emotional/behavioral issues.  I get why that was the school of thought but now Addictionology is a real field and millions of dollars go into research so we've come a long way in our understanding in a clinical sense.  I think society in general has a different view of addiction and sobriety in a way that helps the addict and those that love them.         

Edited February 23, 2017 by crgirl412
Run on sentence fixed.

[Giselle]

37 minutes ago, QuiteContraryMoni said:

That's what I was thinking too. BTW, are we really not allowed to use the C word??

Nope,  not even a euphemism for it. We can type it and discuss the word only if it was used in an episode and only in regards to its use in the episode. But you can call a man a prick or a dick. Nice double standard.

People give that word too much power.  Not me though if I call you one, male or female you've earned it in my book.

Read fast the mods can delete in the blink of an eye as is their right. Their playground.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Giselle