S06.E11: Tougher Than the Rest

[formerlyfreedom]

With Snow still asleep in Storybrooke, David and Hook race to stop Gideon before he can confront Emma. Gideon makes a startling confession to Belle and Gold about his whereabouts while he was missing. Meanwhile, Regina struggles with the realization that everyone, perhaps even Robin, is better off in the alternate world where the Evil Queen was defeated. And when Emma inspires a familiar face to help her and Regina return home, she discovers the power to change her fate.

 

 

 

[Curio]

“Princess Emma and Pinocchio hanging out in the Enchanted Forest for the entire episode sounds like a great idea for a premiere,” said literally no one ever.

[InsertWordHere]

I'd like to give a shoutout to the people responsible for the sound mixing in this episode. I can only assume they were trying to drown out the awful dialogue using the significantly less awful score and sound effects because I could barely hear what the actors were saying at the start of this episode. Sadly, nothing could cover up the tongue bath that was given to my least favorite character from the woman he sent to prison. I am never going to like August or even find him interesting, Show. At least I got to see the very attractive and deep-voiced Sheriff of Nottingham again. 

[Primetimer]

The show course-corrects as it returns from hiatus. But is it enough?

View the full article

[Worsel]

A few thoughts about the episode:

Gideon is pretty messed up after spending 28 years with grandma.  I hope they explain why his PTSD led him to try to become a savior/hero.  I am wondering why Gideon was able to immobilize Rumple, the darkest of the dark ones with all the combined power, more powerful than anyone else.

I enjoyed how Evil Queen just standing in their midst caused everyone to run away from the tavern.  And seeing Regina roll her eyes while they ran off was the icing on the cake.

How I adored seeing Nottingham again; the poor schlub, in any realm he always ends up beaten.  I also liked seeing Robin and August again too.  I really like looking at all the great looking guys in this show.

I was greatly amused to see older Hook complete with pot-belly.  He still had lovely guy-linered blue eyes beneath those gray eyebrows.

Rumple spilling out Belle’s bones was a bit hard to watch. 

Watching Charming talk to Snow while she was asleep reminded me how much I miss watching both of them together (i.e. awake and interacting.)  Corollary: characters on this show spend a considerable amount of time asleep – Enchanted Forest and Storybrooke, the most rested communities in all the realms.

[Mari]

How stupid are the writers and/or the character, if this episode is the first time it's occurred to them that everyone would've been better off if Regina had not been successful at her vengeance mission?

[FormerMod-a1]

I don't care about the contrivances needed, I just enjoyed having August and Robin back on screen.

[KingOfHearts]

I hate August... like, I really hate him. It's not that he's done offensive, hypocritical things like Regina. It's his smug attitude that grates me like you couldn't believe. No, show - he didn't support Emma. He didn't check up on her now and again. He abandoned her, slept his way through Hong Kong, and let her go to prison. He was not this "big brother" to her. Whether he's in the Wish Realm or the real one, I just want to punch his patronizing face.

* Why the heck was Rumple perplexed at Gideon's aging when just in the last episode he explained to Belle that time moved differently in the Dark Realm?
* If Regina was on the run, why didn't she just use a glamour spell? Why didn't she just poof away when Henry was after her?
* Young August casting... meh. It was okay against adult August, but I will never believe Pinocchio would have turned into that as a teenager. He was a little freckled ginger.
* Regina left a letter instead of just telling her BFF, "Gotta find my boyfriend. Peace!"
* I laughed out loud when the townspeople fled the tavern. Thanks for reminding us of the terror the Evil Queen put in the hearts of her people, show!
* I hate how the Charmings regularly tell Regina to do questionable things for her happiness. They encouraged her to split herself, and now Emma is telling her to bring Holodeck!Robin to Storybrooke. There's totally not going to be repercussions.
* Antimagic braces are just commonplace now? Why are people like Rumple and Cora a threat when all the Sheriff has to do is slap a brace on them?
* Regina explaining Storybrooke to Robin reminded me of what it's like to explain OUAT to someone who has never watched.
* The destiny stuff with Outlaw Queen is way too heavy handed. "OMG! It's the same tavern! Same feather!" You could stick Regina with really any other person, slap some fate on it, and call it the couple of the century.
* August's chisel didn't work because he didn't believe hard enough? Give me a freaking break.
* Suddenly the wardrobe can hold three people?
* Fake!August totally bought their story and wasn't scared of Regina at all. I hate how "mystic" August is in every capacity. Does he just have the forces of the universe on speed dial or something?
* Rumple and Belle walking separate ways after the Gideon/Emma confrontation cracked me up for some reason.
* So Emma's fate can be changed with belief, except it can't? Make up your mind, show.
* Good Guy Rumple is dumb. It's out of character for him to suddenly care about others and not want his son to be like him. There's no explanation behind thie sudden change of heart. It's like 3A Rumple stumbled out of the grave this season.
* The clocktower cliffhanger was dull. Gideon is going to by like Kylo Ren isn't he? Temper tantrums and daddy issues.

I'm still watching to A) laugh at things that shouldn't be funny, and B) point out the obvious plot holes.

[Mari]

Even though the feather thing basically makes him and Regina characters from Dumbo?  :)

6 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

I don't care about the contrivances needed, I just enjoyed having August and Robin back on screen.

[tennisgurl]

I have to say, I was actually happy to see August and Robin pop back up. I don't care about them a lot, but I like the actors, and its just cool to have some old faces back (I mean, relatively).

In any other reality, I would say Gideon's thought process of "I`ll murder this hero, and then I`ll be the hero!" was batshit insane, but on this show? Sure, I buy it. Just look at Regina!  Also, is Gideon giving anyone else Connor from Angel vibes? *shiver*

[Senna]

Well, I'll give the show this: Robin was more interesting this episode than he's practically ever been.  (Which is pretty sad to say.)  But I will not give them that his life would've been miserable if the Evil Queen had been taken out.  Sorry, that makes no sense.

What also makes no sense is spending so much of the episode on August.  I mean, it's nice in a way to remember that there are other characters in the show ... but it's not like there was anything special about him in the wish realm that we needed to see him there at all (especially when Hook was turned into a ridiculous footnote).

I'm glad we've gotten the middle of town showdown out of the way.  I realized during this episode that I forgot a lot about the past half-season over the hiatus -- the shears of fate (lol), Aladdin the genie, etc.

[Mari]

2 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

* Suddenly the wardrobe can hold three people?

* Fake!August totally bought their story and wasn't scared of Regina at all. I hate how "mystic" August is in every capacity. Does he just have the forces of the universe on speed dial or something?
*

* Good Guy Rumple is dumb. It's out of character for him to suddenly care about others and not want his son to be like him. There's no explanation behind thie sudden change of heart. It's like 3A Rumple stumbled out of the grave this season.
 

In order:

I'm so glad the three people thing bugged more people than just me.  I can't decide if it worked because of the show's iffy relationship with math, iffy relationship with logic, or because of Robin's iffy relationship with being real.

Maybe August is mystic in every reality because he's not completely human?  It's the fairy magic drifting out?

 

I agree--good guy Rumple is out of character for this season.  However, since it's also a version of Rumple that has more depth and is less cartoony, I'm going to take it and be grateful.

[Artsda]

Loved seeing Robin back, hope he sticks around.

Hook with the beer belly and the switching to water too drink lines were funny. "I really need to get home and get someone off the rum." LOL

Seeing more of Belle forgiving Rumple for the 580369th time is blah. They need to be done for good.

[ParadoxLost]

I have to give the writers credit for one thing.   Gideon's plan to murder the savior in order to become the savior and be heroic demonstrates that they understand their characters at least a little.

Its the perfect blend of Rumples "I want power" and Belle's idiotic "even murder can be forgiven if you have the potential to do a good thing".  Its so exactly what I'd expect of Belle and Rumple's kid that I'm not sure Gideon needed twenty eight years with the Black Fairy to turn out this way.

Edited March 6, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[Curio]

Old Hook was an amazing comedic spark this show desperately needed (please let Colin stretch his physical comedy muscles more, Show), but he was only on screen for, like, 30 seconds. “Hey! Awesome! This is the fun show I fell in love with!” And then WHAM! Back to boring melodramatic drama no one cares about. These writers seriously don’t understand why we still watch.

Also, I’m side-eyeing Emma for magically throwing Old Hook around when she could have easily just poofed him away without physically injuring him. (But wait! It doesn't matter because the Wish Realm is fake...except when it's not.) She poofed him a few seconds later anyways, so why not poof him before knocking him out cold? Actually, I’m asking the wrong question here. Why wasn’t Old Hook allowed to be in more than 30 seconds of the episode?! Emma, Pinocchio, and Old Hook on a comedic adventure could have saved this episode for me. Because guess what? The Jolly Roger is made of magical wood! Emma and Pinocchio needed magical wood! That’s where Emma poofed Hook! It literally writes itself, A&E! But no, they had to awkwardly make Pinocchio a quasi-love interest for Emma instead. If I had never watched an episode of OUAT before this episode, I would have assumed they were setting Emma and Pinocchio up as a couple based on their interactions in the Enchanted Forest and Storybrooke.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Curio

[tennisgurl]

So, since they brought Robin back, and Regina and everyone are treating him like a real person, then I guess that means Regina really DID murder Snow and Charming in cold blood, for no reason. Sounds about right.

Also, that version of Rumple keeps Bells bones stored in a bag where he can poof them to him whenever he wants to. Again, sounds about right.

Edited March 6, 2017 by tennisgurl

[gik910]

Can someone explain how killing the Savior would make someone the Savior? Come on Darth Gideon- be more interesting than that. Also, why do bad guys always stomp around the middle of town at night?  FFS-Put up some better lighting and cameras Storybook Municipal, maybe a better lock on the clock tower?

At least Colin looked like he was having fun in his old guy getup.  "We're switching to water." "For drinking?" Ha!

I did enjoy seeing August and the Sherif again.  I completely understand why people don't like August.  I really do enjoy the actor though and kinda of dig the mystic angle of his.  I just wish he didn't leave Emma to her own devices/let her go to jail for all those years (which I am going to ignore- I mean the writes ignore their character's history all the time).

I cringed when I noticed now dirty Emma's beautiful cape was getting in the woods- but then it looked just a little wet back at August's and I was jealous of the cleaning properties of magic.

This exchange did make me laugh:

"That's how your getting home? A tree?"

"A magic tree."  Like, duh.

[ParadoxLost]

18 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Seeing more of Belle forgiving Rumple for the 580369th time is blah. They need to be done for good.

I think its going to be worse than that.  I think they were telegraphing pretty clearly that in the conflict between Gideon and Emma, that Belle is going to be the more awful half of Rumbelle when the "war" breaks out.  And that she is going to do things to protect Gideon at the expense of Emma/Hook and the Charmings that is going to make any fans Belle has very, very sad. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[sharky]

13 minutes ago, Mari said:

I'm so glad the three people thing bugged more people than just me.  I can't decide if it worked because of the show's iffy relationship with math, iffy relationship with logic, or because of Robin's iffy relationship with being real.

I'm hand waving it as Robin not technically counting since he was from the wish realm. Because I did like seeing him back so if I have to find a somewhat logical reason to excuse it, that's what I'll do. Who knew I would miss Outlaw Queen?

My bigger issue was with the cliffhanger. We have this huge "OMG! Regina and Emma got a magic bean and then got left behind because Regina got distracted!" at the end of the half season, but never once did Emma call Regina out on the fact that her little distraction cost them a ride home to their son and her pirate. Not one "What the hell is wrong with you" or whatever. I guess Emma is the savior and her default is to just suck it up and try to find a solution to whatever problem she's facing, but it would've been nice to just see her acknowledge the fact that they their chance home because of Regina.

Loved the little bit of Wish!Hook, but it would've been fun to have him on screen a little more. I did love his reaction to seeing Robin again as well. I keep thinking that if this show does get cancelled, Colin would do an awesome job as the new Doctor Who -- some serious heavy stuff with the funny stuff mixed in.

So I guess this second half of the season is all Gideon and the Black Fairy. I mean, I guess. It'll be fine. It just doesn't have the same hook as a fairy tale character.

[PixiePaws1]

Only thing i liked in that whole ep was Killian's saying 'You're amazing, Emma'

[legaleagle53]

2 minutes ago, sharky said:

I'm hand waving it as Robin not technically counting since he was from the wish realm. Because I did like seeing him back so if I have to find a somewhat logical reason to excuse it, that's what I'll do. Who knew I would miss Outlaw Queen?

My bigger issue was with the cliffhanger. We have this huge "OMG! Regina and Emma got a magic bean and then got left behind because Regina got distracted!" at the end of the half season, but never once did Emma call Regina out on the fact that her little distraction cost them a ride home to their son and her pirate. Not one "What the hell is wrong with you" or whatever. I guess Emma is the savior and her default is to just suck it up and try to find a solution to whatever problem she's facing, but it would've been nice to just see her acknowledge the fact that they their chance home because of Regina.

Loved the little bit of Wish!Hook, but it would've been fun to have him on screen a little more. I did love his reaction to seeing Robin again as well. I keep thinking that if this show does get cancelled, Colin would do an awesome job as the new Doctor Who -- some serious heavy stuff with the funny stuff mixed in.

So I guess this second half of the season is all Gideon and the Black Fairy. I mean, I guess. It'll be fine. It just doesn't have the same hook as a fairy tale character.

I see what you did there.  Did you?  ;-)

[Shanna Marie]

22 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

No, show - he didn't support Emma. He didn't check up on her now and again. He abandoned her, slept his way through Hong Kong, and let her go to prison.

Don't forget that he took the money Neal sent her. He bears a great deal of responsibility for Emma's difficult life, so it's insane that they're trying to turn him into some kind of big brother/life guru/best friend for Emma.

Why did no one tell Gideon that killing to get the powers is the Dark One thing, not how it works with Saviors? There's no way that could be how that works, or else Rumple would have been trying to kill Emma ages ago. Plus, becoming a super-good, light magic hero by killing a hero? Not how that works.

25 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Also, is Gideon giving anyone else Connor from Angel vibes? *shiver*

Oh yeah, that's definitely where they got that. They already took the evil hand plot from Angel, so why not steal more?

On the up side, I think Regina and Wish!Robin had more of a conversation here than Regina and Real Robin ever did in the whole time they were together. At least they were talking about something other than being soulmates. They definitely had more interaction here than in the whole season before he died.

[ParadoxLost]

I had a fleeting moment at the end when Emma was disarmed that I thought Robin might just shoot Gideon while everyone else was unarmed and unable to help.  Then they froze everyone and my hopes were dashed.

[sharky]

2 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

I see what you did there.  Did you?  ;-)

I did, and I'm not proud of it. At least it hooked you. :P

On another note, did anyone read the PTV recap for this? Geez. That guy needs to come in here and hang out with us for a bit before writing those things. From the recap:

Quote

I didn't catch any continuity errors or ret-cons (unless you want to count aging a character twenty-eight years overnight, and bringing another character back from the dead with a new version of himself, which, fair).

Emma's wardrobe only held two people. The whole basis of the show is that Emma had to come to this world by herself because the wardrobe only held two people and that stupid Pinocchio screwed things over for her before she was even born! I had to make up an excuse for this to make me feel better because it was so glaring of a continuity error!

And he gave a "No" to green screen fakeness even though Nottingham was clearly not really in the forest when Rumple did away with him.

Although I will give the writer credit for pulling "A true wood carver must always be in conversation with his tool," out of context.

[mjgchick]

Is Gideon suppose to be Kylo Ren of sorts? This is boring.

[Curio]

This is the first episode where I zoned out for good portions of dialogue because of boredom. A lot of the Robin/Regina and Rumple/Belle scenes just seemed so repetitive that I started doing house chores instead. I'll have to go through and read transcripts later to see what was said.

5 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I had a fleeting moment at the end when Emma was disarmed that I thought Robin might just shoot Gideon while everyone else was unarmed and unable to help. Then they froze everyone and my hopes were dashed.

 

That actually would have been pretty cool and would have justified bringing this new Robin back.

[Mari]

But, you're saying that bringing Robin back so that we can watch he and Regina fall in love, yet again, wasn't meaningful enough to justify it for you?

*Headshake*

That's just cold.  What happened to your hope?

Edited March 6, 2017 by Mari

[adam807]

It's a new wardrobe, maybe it's bigger?

[InsertWordHere]

The enchanted wood's older now, so maybe its magic grew stronger. 

[Curio]

2 minutes ago, adam807 said:

It's a new wardrobe, maybe it's bigger?

Bigger on the inside? Sorry, wrong show...

[sharky]

6 minutes ago, adam807 said:

It's a new wardrobe, maybe it's bigger?

It's bigger on the inside! :D Another sign Colin is going to be the new Doctor Who.

(and seriously, I nit picked, but I do give you credit for those recaps. Holy crap, I can't even remember half the canon for this show, but apparently neither can A&E so.....)

17 minutes ago, mjgchick said:

Is Gideon suppose to be Kylo Ren of sorts? This is boring.

I'm starting to get that feeling too, like this is their Star Wars homage they've been really wanting to do.

@Curio -- great minds think alike!

Edited March 6, 2017 by sharky
fist bump for Curio

[MaiLuna]

Well, my expectations were so low that it wasn't that bad.

Robin was interesting for once. 

I don't mind August, I prefer Emma interacting with him than with Regina.

Old Hook wasn't even that funny to excuse that scene. When Emma said "sorry, Hook" and sent him to his ship it was like she was talking to AU Grumpy or Granny, not someone she's in love with. Hook's reaction to drinking water was funny, but it made Emma seem kind of shallow. She treated August with compassion like he was a real person, but not Hook or her parents or her son? 

Same thing with Rumpel, he threw the "woman she loved"'s remains like they were litter. And his scene with Belle in SB at the end was boring. And Gideon seems too whiny. We already have Regina for that. 

Quote

Can someone explain how killing the Savior would make someone the Savior?

Yeah, they're literally the same rules as the Dark One's. 

I love when the show is set in FTL, I wish we could've spent more time there (with a few changes). The episode wasn't bad, but this is the only time we'll see a no-curse scenario, and it could've been 1000 times better. Now we'll never get another chance. Once more, another great idea that underperformed. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by MaiLuna

[woolmintons]

I'm starting to believe there's a Great August Retcon, in addition to the Saintification of Nealfire and Regina Exception Clause. A&E, above all the other writers, try to act like they didn't have August collude with Emma's statutory rapist to send her to prison and completely destroy her. And after he stole her money and bought a motorcycle with it, she lived in her car for the next 9 years, like, you know, still on the streets? Saying you knew she didn't belong on the streets doesn't really mesh with your subsequent actions, dude. Emma, you can forgive people for what they did. You can forgive Neal, you can forgive August, you can forgive Regina, but it doesn't mean you have to forever act like they never cause you all of this pain in the first place.

I don't blame baby Pinocchio for leaving her at the orphanage. He was seven. It was too much to ask of a seven-year-old. I also think he was helpful as a teenager; his advice lead Emma to turning herself in. But I do blame adult August for what he did to her. "He was my friend!" Emma, honey, he only tried to get you to break the curse because he was turning to wood.

I like Sean, but I do not give a single fuck about Outlaw Queen. They didn't give a shit about his character before, they're not going to give a shit about him now outside of how it will affect Regina. My biggest wish for the upcoming OQ storyline is that they could have had Robin react like a normal person to Regina - like... you killed my wife! You're a mass murderer! You live a life of luxury, I help the poor! But I'm guessing they're not going there. Sigh.

On the completely opposite side of the spectrum, FUCK YES to Emma for picking her own name, FUCK YES to getting shit done in the Wish!Realm, and FUCK YES to kicking Gideon's ass to the curb with her Syrio Forel moment. That's my girl. And Charming blaming himself for bringing Gideon? At least some people on this show have self-awareness and take responsibility.

Also, are we making of list of REC moments?

• Regina causes them to miss the portal, Emma isn't allowed to say anything about it.
• Robin's possibly real, even though she murdered people in this realm and constantly went on about how no one was real.
• Only two people in the wardrobe, a HUGE part of the ONCE mythology, unless of course Regina can bring Robin.

I'm probably missing a bunch but my eyes literally glazed over for a good chunk of the OQ scenes.

Poor Belle. At least when Snow wakes up next time she can talk to her about what it's like to meet your 28-year-old adult baby-child. That was an oddly specific age, too? Like in 28 years there will be a savior specific?

[adam807]

11 minutes ago, sharky said:

Holy crap, I can't even remember half the canon for this show, but apparently neither can A&E so.....)

I refer to the fan wiki and past posts A LOT. I'm frankly surprised you guys don't fact-check me more. (This is not an invitation to do so, thank you.)

[Curio]

Quote

When Emma said "sorry, Hook" and sent him to his ship it was like she was talking to AU Grumpy or Granny, not someone she's in love with.

 

Right? Hook is Emma's True Love™. It doesn't matter if he's older in this Wish Realm, she should still care about him. The whole point of the last episode was that Regina loved Henry too much to harm him even though she knew he was fake. Why didn't Emma apply the same concept to Old Hook? If she supposedly loved him, she should have bent down and touched his face before poofing him off to his ship instead of standing a few feet away from him making comments about his weight. Wasn't Emma at all curious about what became of Hook in that realm? The way the scene played, it's as if Hook was a fly Emma had to swat away before she could hang out with her younger and more attractive male friend for the rest of the episode.

Quote

this is the only time we'll see a no-curse scenario, and it could've been 1000 times better. Now we'll never get a chance again.

 

And now I'm depressed again...

Quote

Also, are we making of list of REC moments?

We could probably create a separate thread for it at this point.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Curio

[sharky]

5 minutes ago, Curio said:

Wasn't Emma at all curious about what became of Hook in that realm?

This gets back to the issue I had with Emma not acknowledging that Regina was the reason they were still stuck in this stupid realm. I'm just hand waving it as Emma is the savior. She doesn't care about Regina being dumb or Hook being a different version of himself. She just has to get back to Storybrooke no matter how much hand waving needs to be done and feelings need to be ignored. There was just one focus, forget the distractions. There's a tree, I'm the savior, bring your imaginary dead boyfriend, whatever, let's just get home. Because that's what a savior does, feelings or character development or continuity be damned. No wonder she's getting sick of being the savior all the time.

[Frozendiva]

Until I saw the 'previously' part, I had forgotten what happened. I think I planned to stop watching the dreck the show turned in to last season, but here I was, with nothing else to watch!

It was haircut time!

I liked older, beer/rum-belly Hook. Too bad Emma came across as shallow.  She liked him young and hot. Unfortunately people do age - they gain weight, lose their hair, have illnesses, etc. Appearances do change. It is within and what is in the heart and soul that matters. She still has a bit of growing up to do.

The whole Gideon as Savior thing still rolls my eyes. I'm sure Emma would love to ditch the side-job.

I did like Regina clearing out the tavern. More peanuts for her! Do we really need another Robin Hood again?

With the 28 years stuff being recycled, maybe it's just another Storybrooke chapter end.

[KaveDweller]

Where exactly was August when Emma went to see him at the end? In Storybrook? I really have no memory of the last time he was on, but I thought he was far away. And that his father was dead. Am I mixing up realms?

[tennisgurl]

I don't think I disliked the episode, but I don't know if it made me really pumped for the season either. It just kind of...happened. The Wishverse just isn't that interesting, especially because I still don't get how "real" we should see it, and, as I said last time, this was a real missed opportunity. I wanted to see more of what the characters were up to in this AU world, but we only got a few glimpses. Its a wealth of ideas, and its wasted. And, again, Regina murdered Snow and Charming, and no one cares. Its creepy.

Old Hook was funny, and Colin is great at comedy, but, in retrospect, I didn't really like how it made Emma look. I'm not saying she should have hung onto the guy, considering Emma at least seemed to be on the "this is all fake" train, but she seemed like she didn't even care that the love of her life is apparently a drunken idiot in this world. She just seemed grossed out by him, and it made her look rather shallow. But, since Robin is apparently real, why isn't that Hook real too? I did laugh at Kilian's reaction to Emma telling him to knock off the Rum. He seemed so confused. Almost as confused as confused as was when he saw Robin. He was just like "...everyone else sees him, right?"

Sheriff of Nottingham is hot. I do wonder how Sherwood Forest has a magical cuff. Did Tamara and Greg stop by? Why is she even a threat then?

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Why did no one tell Gideon that killing to get the powers is the Dark One thing, not how it works with Saviors? There's no way that could be how that works, or else Rumple would have been trying to kill Emma ages ago. Plus, becoming a super-good, light magic hero by killing a hero? Not how that works.

Ya know, you could try asking the Savior to help you with your Black Fairy problem, dumb-ass.  No killing needed.  (But where's the fun in that???)

1 hour ago, adam807 said:

I refer to the fan wiki and past posts A LOT. I'm frankly surprised you guys don't fact-check me more. (This is not an invitation to do so, thank you.)

Fact-checking this show (these writers) would be a full-time job.  hey can't keep their own facts straight from one week to the next!

ETA:
"Just believe and you can do anything!  Like me, if I believe hard enough, I can become a master woodworker inspite of the fact that I didn't let my dad train me!"

SMH

From the recap:
 

Quote

Emma's vision -- which Gideon has shared -- comes true! Only she wins! She beats Gideon, but doesn't kill him because Gold asks her not to, and he teleports away. So, guys, obviously that wasn't actually the vision and it's going to happen again later. You're all idiots.

Emma wasn't even wearing the same clothes, which might have been a tip-off (to reasonable people)!

Edited March 6, 2017 by jhlipton

[superloislane]

It was a much better episode than the finale I'll give it that. And it set up a more interesting plot than we got in 6A which was so boring I can barely remember much of it. But unfortunately the winter finale and the first half of the season really soured me on the show and even if this half is better I'm not sure it can undo the damage.

I LOVED seeing little Emma and I want to murder everyone who had a hand in creating that life for her.

I liked August in season 1 and then I hated him in season 2 for sending Emma to prison and stealing her damn money which Emma never got to confront him about! But I always liked him better than his co-conspirator Neal because I just think the character is more interesting and the actor is better. I also always liked the brotherly vibe he has with Emma. And anytime they can use a known character in one of their stories as opposed to them meeting a random guest star and having an adventure with them is always good.

Robin's back and I could not care less. OQ was always so bland and I still can't believe the show used HIM as the cliffhanger for the winter hiatus. Although he had more of a personality in this one episode than he ever had in the two seasons he was on the show.

Emma kicking ass and taking names! I am here for that!

Regina did absolutely nothing to help get Emma back to Storybrooke. She just took off and by the time she was back, Emma and August were standing beside the wardrobe. Thanks for nothing!

I genuinely hope I never see this stupid wish realm again because I've always wanted to see a world where the curse was never cast and we got...this instead. How disappointing.

Edited March 6, 2017 by superloislane

[kitticup]

So I switching between Harry Potter and OUAT and can't say I liked what I saw.  Why are we wasting time on Regina.  Frankly  a woman who killed her father, husband and enslaved boyfriend (graham) has absolutely no business having a true love.  I caught the Hook scene and wasn't that impressed.  I caught the commercial  for time and time again.  I liked the out of time aspect, why didn't A&E do that with their characters.  

[Curio]

I can't help but think of so many different scenarios A&E could have written instead that would have improved the Old Hook/Emma conclusion. Clearly, they weren't willing to give him more than 2 minutes of screen time, but they at least could have been creative and didn't need to destroy characterizations and canon relationships just because something "looked cool" in their heads.

Alternate Facts Version:

Hook: Now, you might have my sword, but I've got your...this thing.
Pinocchio: Chisel.
Hook: Now we duel.

Emma looks at her sword and is struck by an idea.

Emma: Wait! This isn't right. It isn't fair to duel a man who isn't properly armed. You should both have swords.
Hook: The Princess has a point.
Pinocchio: (Whispers) Why are you trying to help him?
Emma: (Whispers) Trust me. (Normal voice) Pinocchio, give the Captain back his sword. It's bad form to fight a pirate using his own sword.
Hook: I'm beginning to like you, Princess...
Pinocchio: Emma, are you serious?
Emma: Just do it.

Pinocchio tosses the sword at Hook's feet. Hook drops the chisel and quickly grabs his sword. Pinocchio grabs the chisel. When Hook clumsily gets balanced onto his feet again, he's shocked to find Emma with her sword drawn at him, ready to battle.

Hook: No, no, no. My quarrel isn't with you, luv. It's with...whoever he his.
Emma: If you want to take me back to my kingdom, you'll have to fight me first. If I win, you must promise to leave me and my friend alone.
Hook: And when I win?
Emma: I will willingly go with you back to my castle so you can collect the ransom. I'll even sweeten the deal and hand over all the gold and jewels my family owns.
Hook: Hmmm...
Emma: ...and our entire stash of rum barrels.
Hook: Okay. But he needs to die too.
Emma: What? Why?
Hook: I'm a pirate! I have a reputation to maintain.
Emma: Sure, fine. If you win, you can kill him.
Pinocchio: What?!
Emma: (Whispers) It's fine. Just get started on that wardrobe.

Emma and Hook sword fight while Pinocchio carves away at the tree in the background. There are numerous shout-outs to Emma and Hook's first sword fight at the beanstalk. Emma is always one step ahead of Old Hook because Hook has taught her better sword fighting skills over the years. When Old Hook asks how Emma learned to fight so well, she pulls a Henry and says, "I had a great teacher. You." When Emma is in a pickle, she attempts to use her Savior magic, but it fails, just like in her vision. (That foreshadows the scene later in the episode when she fights Gideon on Main Street, but instead of failing to use her magic, Emma is successful.) After Emma wins the fight against Old Hook using old-fashioned fighting skills and no magic, she ties Old Hook up to a tree like their first meeting. Then, we actually have a serious scene where Old Hook fills Emma in on how he became the way he is. Emma opens up about how even though she may have won the duel against Old Hook, she's still afraid to duel the hooded figure. ("Why are you so afraid, luv? You bestest me, and if you can best Captain Hook, you can best anyone." "No offense, but it wasn't exactly a fair fight when you're like...this. This other person is much more powerful." "More powerful than you? I doubt it.") Old Hook is surprisingly moved by Emma's story because of their True Love™ bond and instinctually says the right things Emma needed to hear to believe in herself. Emma passes this same advice along to Pinocchio to help him believe in himself and finish the wardrobe. Pinocchio finishes the wardrobe, Emma properly says goodbye to Old Hook by untying him and hugging him goodbye ("Just do me a favor and lay off the rum in this realm."), and she leaves for Storybrooke with Regina and Robin.

This really wouldn't have changed much about the episode, and it would have included a lot more continuity and shoutouts to earlier episodes than the random new retcons they had to build into Pinocchio's story. There's a reason canon and continuity exists...use it!

Edited March 6, 2017 by Curio

[Free]

1 hour ago, woolmintons said:

I'm starting to believe there's a Great August Retcon, in addition to the Saintification of Nealfire and Regina Exception Clause. A&E, above all the other writers, try to act like they didn't have August collude with Emma's statutory rapist to send her to prison and completely destroy her. And after he stole her money and bought a motorcycle with it, she lived in her car for the next 9 years, like, you know, still on the streets? Saying you knew she didn't belong on the streets doesn't really mesh with your subsequent actions, dude. Emma, you can forgive people for what they did. You can forgive Neal, you can forgive August, you can forgive Regina, but it doesn't mean you have to forever act like they never cause you all of this pain in the first place.

I don't blame baby Pinocchio for leaving her at the orphanage. He was seven. It was too much to ask of a seven-year-old. I also think he was helpful as a teenager; his advice lead Emma to turning herself in. But I do blame adult August for what he did to her. "He was my friend!" Emma, honey, he only tried to get you to break the curse because he was turning to wood.

Oh there is, it's why whenever these characters are trot out, it's to push a plot point and being used as a plot device.  The situation itself is never going to be touched on as the writers continually retcon it away each time.

[Dianthus]

More tears for St. Woegina. FFS. Toxic Bitch.

Ships, made of wood, usually have a carpenter aboard to make repairs. Or is it part of the enchantment that the Jolly never needs fixing?

Next week looks somewhat more promising.

[Curio]

Just now, Dianthus said:

Ships, made of wood, usually have a carpenter aboard to make repairs. Or is it part of the enchantment that the Jolly never needs fixing?

 

The Jolly is made out of enchanted wood. So Emma and Pinocchio could have easily just gone to the Jolly Roger, stolen some wooden planks off the ship, and made a wardrobe that way.

[Camera One]

I didn't find the episode that bad, but this episode doesn't provide much fodder for discussion.  It really wouldn't have been much of a cliffhanger if it had aired in December.  It seems like everything is hinging on Gideon and he's a pretty pathetic Big Bad.  What a petulant brat.  I thought the Writers were going to drag out his motivations, but they revealed it surprisingly quickly and talk about lame and nonsensical.  What other land is in need of a Savior?  Was there a job posting he received in Black Fairy Jail World?  Since when does one Savior need to die to get their powers?  Why was Emma sword-fighting him instead of using her magic?  

I did like this Young Emma, so I kind of wanted to see more.  There's no way Saint August would have been such a put-together, on-top-of-things teenager.  I don't remember the actor being so unconvincing in Season 1, but there were some scenes where it didn't feel natural at all.  Maybe it was because the whole "I'm not as good a wood-carver as my dad" wasn't setup properly and I didn't really buy his emotional problems enough to sustain an entire episode.  At least this was better than his pointless stint in 4B.  I thought he and Emma were so BFF that I'm surprised he never told her he was the teenager under the bridge.  

As sharky and others said, it was ridiculous how Emma said absolutely nothing about missing the portal, and Regina didn't apologize either.  It was like a total non-issue.  Why didn't the two of them put on a glamour spell?  What was with hiding behind a log?  Prince Henry isn't too bright thinking they crossed the river, but what else is new.  

I love this Year of Snowing... the whole sleeping curse is looking more and more like a way to sideline them more easily.  David started the episode by giving all the viewers a quick recap and then he's MIA for 30 min.  

Did Pinocchio not age because he was wood?  I thought there was only one last enchanted tree.  Like everyone, I kept on waiting for the "only two fits in the tree" when Emma gave Regina the idea to bring FakeRobin along.  Even Regina didn't think of doing that.  Arrgh.  I agree that AltRobin was better in this episode than much of Season 4 and 5.  

I couldn't comprehend what Rumple nor Belle were saying at the well, but what a pity party.  "My hopes and plans don't turn out the way I want them to."  Who do you think you are, Regina?  Belle, Belle, Belle... it's kind of a red flag when  you have to ask a question like, "So you DON'T want him to kill Emma????"

Edited March 6, 2017 by Camera One

[Dianthus]

I was thinking Killian might actually recognize a chisel when he saw one, but wasn't his reaction just so Haw-Haw funny?!? /s

[KAOS Agent]

That was not a particularly good episode to start the spring season. It was so full of stupid that I don't even know where to start. I do want to laugh that they filmed that all Evil Queen promo especially for the Oscars hyping the new season and then she didn't even appear in this episode. This is the last season of Once, so I'll stick around, but otherwise, I'd be done.

Some notes:

- I like this Robin better. He has personality and isn't remotely into Outlaw Queen. Also, he brings in the super hot Sheriff of Nottingham. He can stay for a bit.

- Young!Emma was completely right that The Ugly Duckling was about how the duckling was a swan all along. Believing it was a swan did not make it so. No wonder the fairy tales are so morally messed up on this show. The writers just make up the moral of the story and think if they believe hard enough, the audience will buy it. 

- Emma kicking Gideon's ass was the highlight of this episode. Can she do that some more? Gideon is such a whiny little bitch. Also, he's dumb as a box of hair just like his brother. Killing a hero makes you a hero? What the hell? And why in the hell do Belle and Rumpel seem to go along with this idea instead of telling him that's not how it works?

- Geppetto never found the magic tree. The Blue Fairy did. There was one left. She brought it into the throne room and they asked Geppetto to carve it. There was not an entire grove of them and neither Pinocchio nor Geppetto would have known where it was found. This Wishverse did seem to have him make the wardrobe, which means no more magic trees, certainly not one that was clearly centuries old.  

- August is a dick. I hate him and the fact that Emma thinks he's her best friend not named Lily or Regina. He is not. He sent her to jail, stole the money and promptly blew it on hookers in Thailand. He returned home because he was turning to wood and needed Emma to fix that problem. Eion's hot, but this whitewashing pisses me off no end.

- David kissed Snow. Why didn't she wake up?

- Belle is totally going to get on board the kill Emma train because apparently we're all believing in the Kill the Saviour, Become a Saviour thing.  

- Where was Zelena? They couldn't even find a way to give her a cameo in the Wishverse.

Edited March 6, 2017 by KAOS Agent

[Camera One]

22 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

The writers just make up the moral of the story and think if they believe hard enough, the audience will buy it. 

This is so totally the Writers' M.O.  It was quite hilarious how the Writers imposed a totally incorrect interpretation of "The Ugly Duckling".  And now Emma is all empowered because she has been reminded (by Sage August) that if she believes it, it will come true.  Does that strategy work for Gideon too?  He thinks if it's fate, it's bound to happen.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Camera One