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S06.E11: Tougher Than the Rest

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8 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Where exactly was August when Emma went to see him at the end? In Storybrook? I really have no memory of the last time he was on, but I thought he was far away. And that his father was dead. Am I mixing up realms?

August is in Storybrooke, in season 4 he was aged from a child (after being de-aged by the Blue Fairy a while back) by Gold and the Queens of Darkness so they could torture him for information on the Author.  And Geppetto is still around but we never see him (regrettably most of the time the ancillary characters are rarely seen.)  Apparently in Wish Realm Geppetto is dead, unclear how or when that happened.

 

4 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

 

- David kissed Snow. Why didn't she wake up?

 

Because they are still under the curse cast by the Evil Queen that forces one to wake and one to sleep when they use True Love's Kiss.  I'm hoping this nonsense ends soon.  

And by the way, who is watching the Evil Queen/Snake?  Grumpy and the other Dwarves?  

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Yes, there must be a Storybrooke babysitting service: "No one has time to watch the kids when they have a realm to save. You be the hero, we will be the Hero's Helper."

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Ugh. For many of the reasons already mentioned above. The one part that had potential was old Hook, but it was so campy and not done right in terms of how Emma reacted to him that I couldn't even really enjoy that.

I won't belabor any other issues, like the wardrobe capacity or stupid Pinocchio, but I will just say that I don't even like Emma's princess look - that red lipstick is way harsh with the white outfit and the blonde hair, and too much of a callback to the stark DarkEmma look. Why couldn't they give her a softer look, like in Camelot?

Meh.

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Belle: "It can be so easy to rationalize doing the wrong thing."  Speaking the writer's credo.

SO much wrong with this episode on so many levels.  I can't watch anymore even for Robert Carlyle's sake.  I think I'll check in here periodically to see how bad it's getting.  Hopefully, this is the last season.

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Geppetto never found the magic tree. The Blue Fairy did. There was one left. She brought it into the throne room and they asked Geppetto to carve it. There was not an entire grove of them and neither Pinocchio nor Geppetto would have known where it was found. This Wishverse did seem to have him make the wardrobe, which means no more magic trees, certainly not one that was clearly centuries old.

 

Have they ever explained why the wardrobe had to be carved out of an enchanted tree trunk? Would any enchanted wood work? I'm still trying to figure out how A&E completely missed the fact that the Jolly Roger is made of enchanted wood, but yet again, they created a magical deus ex machina (this time, a random grove of trees we've never heard about) instead of using continuity.

Gideon and everyone else on this show are such dumbasses. "I need to kill the Savior so I can save the Dark Realm!" Dude, how about just saving the Dark Realm by yourself? You don't need a name change to do it! It's the same stupid reason why Jasmine keeps bugging Aladdin to save Agrabah, but now their situation makes less sense because Aladdin doesn't even have the Savior title anymore. If it's the "Savior" name on the business card that is the most important, shouldn't Jasmine be bugging Emma to save Agrabah instead of Aladdin? And why haven't these people learned that anyone can be a savior?! Just do something heroic, and voila, you're a savior! Why must the writers always try so damn hard to create drama where none exists?

Also, screw you, August...

Young Emma: I guess I should thank you for giving me hope. I'll keep these Ugly Duckling pages to remind myself I need to believe in myself.
August: Cool, well I'm glad I taught you a very valuable lesson. Later, kid!
Young Emma: Wait! Where are you going?
August: Uhhh...I have some other place to be now.
Young Emma: Do you have a family?
August: What? No.
Young Emma: Where are you going then? Can I come with you?
August: Ummm...this place is only for, like, cooler older kids. I don't think you should come.
Young Emma: Oh...
August: I was kind of just hoping you'd go back to the foster care system after our little chat...but hey! I'll walk you to the police station and ditch you for another seven years! Maybe I'll swing by your middle school graduation and remind you to not throw away your diploma. See ya later, kiddo!
Young Emma: I may have no friends right now, but I can tell that boy is going to be my best friend in the future.

Seriously, why did we spend an entire premiere episode whitewashing this character again?

Edited by Curio
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1 hour ago, Worsel said:

 

Yes, there must be a Storybrooke babysitting service: "No one has time to watch the kids when they have a realm to save. You be the hero, we will be the Hero's Helper."

 

I don't know why they bother introducing babies on this show. If they're not being kidnapped or aged up to adulthood, they don't have a purpose.

 

The August stuff bugged. So, he checked in on her now and then? Riiight. He still just left her when he was supposed to be taking care of her. I liked that he was typing about Pleasure Island.

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I had several issues with this episode:

(1) David deciding to stay awake until he could get Emma back from Wishland. First of all, I loathe when characters turn into self-flagellating barrels of guilt. Secondly, David should know by know that Snow thinks of the two of them as a team, which means she would be furious if he stayed awake for weeks trying to fix this mistake himself without even telling her what's going on.  Thirdly, sleep deprivation is terrible for you. It affects your reaction time, your decision making skills, cognitive function - in other words, all the things you might need in a case like this so it's actually better for you to get some sleep.

(2) Robin's back? Really? Does no one stay dead on this show anymore?

(3) When Regina was telling Robin #2 what a great life Robin #1 had back in her world, she said he helped people, he loved his friends, he loved her, and she conveniently left out the fact that he has two kids. Speaking of which, how is Roland going to react to seeing someone who looks exactly like his dad but isn't actually his dad and has no memories of him? And will Zelena try to make the new Robin fall in love with her? Please no!

(4) S5 Gold: Saying you believe doesn't make it so.
S6 Pinocchio: If we believe in something strongly enough, we all have the power to change our fate.
S6 Emma: If you believe you're a puppeteer, you will be a puppeteer. But if you believe you're a master carver and as good as your father was, then your fate changes.

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41 minutes ago, Curio said:

Gideon and everyone else on this show are such dumbasses. "I need to kill the Savior so I can save the Dark Realm!" Dude, how about just saving the Dark Realm by yourself? You don't need a name change to do it! It's the same stupid reason why Jasmine keeps bugging Aladdin to save Agrabah, but now their situation makes less sense because Aladdin doesn't even have the Savior title anymore. If it's the "Savior" name on the business card that is the most important, shouldn't Jasmine be bugging Emma to save Agrabah instead of Aladdin? And why haven't these people learned that anyone can be a savior?! Just do something heroic, and voila, you're a savior! Why must the writers always try so damn hard to create drama where none exists?

I feel like there's more to this that they hopefully unravel this season. Maybe Gideon has been told that he needs to kill the savior to be a savior because the Black Fairy brainwashed him into thinking that. With the savior dead, her son and grandson have no one blocking them from being an evil super duo. And then she can come in to the family business and that would be so fun!

35 minutes ago, Writing Wrongs said:

I don't know why they bother introducing babies on this show. If they're not being kidnapped or aged up to adulthood, they don't have a purpose.

I honestly think it's because A&E are men. "OH MY GAHD! An actress is having a baby! We have to write it into the script because pregnant ladies are weird and we aren't creative enough to find a way to write around a pregnancy on screen." Same goes for Eduardo. I know he's a great costume designer and comes up with some awesome pieces, but Ginny has been dressed like a frumpy old mom since season 3 when she was pregnant. I know she's gained a little weight since her two kids and she's not a size 2 anymore, but you don't have to dress her in dumpy trash bags with no shaping. It's like breasts on this show somehow dictate how to treat a character. When breasts are fun, the writers know how to write for them and the designers know how to dress them. But when an actress' boobs go from fun to functional, it short circuits something in the brains of so many people developing this story.

Anyways, feminist rant over.

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Why didn't Emma go to August for counselling earlier in the season instead of talking to Archie?  Clearly, August has the magic touch.  And the town is in crisis but he's writing another novel?  He doesn't feel the need to help his BFF?  I know he's just a "guest star", but they need to explain why these characters' "friends" aren't rallying around them.  

Too bad the Dream Realm doesn't provide a special tunnel to the Wish Realm, because "A Dream Is a Wish Your Heart Makes", right?  Then, we could have gotten a Emma/Snow adventure while Regina walked off to find Robin (which was hella selfish... did she really think Emma was going to leave without her?).  It was also completely lacking in tension how Emma and Regina were not at all concerned about whether they might be stuck in the Wish Realm.  It's like they knew they would escape.  

Edited by Camera One
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I know my first comment was about this, but I'm still relatively enraged.

They had Regina finally figure out that people would've been happier and better off if she hadn't killed, cursed, and tortured them.  She was surprised.  

We're six years into a show with a basic premise of "Regina tried to destroy the lives of most of the people she knew to get back at Snow, and succeeded for about 30 years."  She deliberately made as many people unhappy as possible for decades.

Why was it a surprise that if you tried and mostly succeeded to destroy an entire kingdom or two, people might've been better off if you'd disappeared?    This shouldn't be a surprise.  If it is a surprise, it should've happened much earlier into the 'redemption' process.

It's like being surprised your hair is green, after you spent a lot of time finding someone to do it and paying him/her a small fortune to dye your hair green.  

How little thought did they put into this?  And why, oh, why did it seem to be a moment we were supposed o feel bad for her?

TS, TW.  

Edited by Mari · Reason: Oops.
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11 minutes ago, Mari said:

They had Regina finally figure out that people would've been happier and better off if she hadn't killed, cursed, and tortured them. She was surprised.

Well, I mean, Regina should have been a little surprised. Because you know who didn't have better lives in the Wish Realm? Apparently Snow and Charming, who are now dead because of Regina. Also, Neal died, Emma never got to fall in love with her True Love, and Hook became a bumbling alcoholic. But no, everyone was so much better off...

So on the one hand, A&E wanted to show us a world where things sucked for our main characters, but they also wanted Regina to be sad because everyone seemed happier without her. How do they not see the major contradiction here?

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7 minutes ago, Curio said:

 

So on the one hand, A&E wanted to show us a world where things sucked for our main characters, but they also wanted Regina to be sad because everyone seemed happier without her. How do they not see the major contradiction here?

REC:  It keeps on giving.  Sort of like an infectious disease.  Not so much like Santa.

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3 hours ago, Curio said:

Gideon and everyone else on this show are such dumbasses. "I need to kill the Savior so I can save the Dark Realm!" Dude, how about just saving the Dark Realm by yourself?

He even had magical powers of his own. Why does he need to become a Savior? What would he gain that he doesn't already have? A doomed fate? A requirement to run around saving other people and put his own mission on hold? The need to follow an impossibly high-minded and unrealistic set of hero rules instead of doing what works?

While Colin was having way too much fun playing Old Hook, that costume was really awful. He looked like he got a last-minute invitation to a themed 40th birthday party in which you were supposed to wear a costume that was aged up, so he put on an old pirate costume from Halloween or a Renaissance festival, stuck a pillow under his shirt, held on by his belt, wore a cheap wig from another costume, and dusted his wig and beard with flour. I guess it would have been pointless to do a more elaborate costume for that amount of screen time. It was like he was only there to answer the "where is Hook in this reality?" question in a humorous way. I could barely follow the scene because I was so distracted by that pillow that was so painfully obviously a pillow.

Also, as a big-time fan of tea the drink and the meal, I have a nitpick. Pinocchio talked about Emma being a princess only interested in dresses and "high tea." It's a very common misconception, and fighting it may be like tilting at windmills, but a princess wouldn't be interested in "high tea." "High tea" is not the fancy afternoon meal of tiny sandwiches and dainty little cakes. It's a more working-class evening meal (one possibly source for the "high" term is that it's a meal taken at a regular, or "high" table, as opposed to a fancy afternoon tea, served on a lower table, like a coffee table, in a parlor). "Tea parties" might have been a better way of stating it.

1 hour ago, Mari said:

Why was it a surprise that if you tried and mostly succeeded to destroy an entire kingdom or two, people might've been better off if you'd disappeared?    This shouldn't be a surprise.  If it is a surprise, it should've happened much earlier into the 'redemption' process.

The problem is that there has been no redemption process. Regina just changed sides and declared herself redeemed, and her victims went along with it. There has never been a point at which she's realized and acknowledged where she went wrong or that she even was wrong. She merely stopped trying to kill people, for no reason that we know of, other than maybe that it was the only way to get Henry to love her. She's never had that moment of realizing the impact her actions had on other people, and she's never shown any sign that she cares. Really, even here it wasn't like she felt bad for the people she'd harmed. She seemed to be feeling sad for herself because people were happier without her rather than sad for them that she'd caused that much harm.

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Yup.  I completely agree.

Hence the quotation marks around redemption.  :)

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Yeah, that was pretty hilarious on Regina's part. "You mean people are actually better off without a murderous dictator running the land?!?! Who could have POSSIBLY foreseen this?!?!" I just have no idea where the writers got their ideas on how to write a redemption arc. A redemption arc should have a former bad guy realizing they did something wrong, and work to make up for it, not just announce that they're good now, and assume that they were actually good all along, and blame it all on mean heroes or an evil side or some shit. And be amazed that some people didn't get the memo that their evil was ret conned!

Kind of thee same thing with August. I was happy to see him here, because he is still an interesting character, at least as a concept, and I'm always just happy to see old characters come back, but there's no way I buy him secretly looking after Emma. In fact, this makes it worse. I don't blame him for leaving her when he was seven. He was seven! But as an older teen? He knew where she was, and still didn't do much of anything, and would still go on to throw her into jail because of...reasons. And would do some stupid Baelfire reveal that made no sense. I didn't forget, show!

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3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I had several issues with this episode:

(1) David deciding to stay awake until he could get Emma back from Wishland. First of all, I loathe when characters turn into self-flagellating barrels of guilt. Secondly, David should know by know that Snow thinks of the two of them as a team, which means she would be furious if he stayed awake for weeks trying to fix this mistake himself without even telling her what's going on.  Thirdly, sleep deprivation is terrible for you. It affects your reaction time, your decision making skills, cognitive function - in other words, all the things you might need in a case like this so it's actually better for you to get some sleep.

(2) Robin's back? Really? Does no one stay dead on this show anymore?

(3) When Regina was telling Robin #2 what a great life Robin #1 had back in her world, she said he helped people, he loved his friends, he loved her, and she conveniently left out the fact that he has two kids. Speaking of which, how is Roland going to react to seeing someone who looks exactly like his dad but isn't actually his dad and has no memories of him? And will Zelena try to make the new Robin fall in love with her? Please no!

(4) S5 Gold: Saying you believe doesn't make it so.
S6 Pinocchio: If we believe in something strongly enough, we all have the power to change our fate.
S6 Emma: If you believe you're a puppeteer, you will be a puppeteer. But if you believe you're a master carver and as good as your father was, then your fate changes.

In your point #2 you are only dead if you are the Huntsman and starring in crappy movies. (lol)

In regards to Gideon killing the Savior to become the Savior is like cutting your nose to save your face.  The logic there is so wishy washy that I'm sure if they checked the boards, the writers could have used thousands of reasons. For example, Gideon kills Savior which would turn back time and have his past with Black Fairy erased. Bam. Done.  Perfect motive.

I'm starting to hate watch.

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Maybe Saviors have an old school Klingon system of job promotion? Kill the Savior, and you get their place as the superior warrior!

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5 hours ago, Arnella said:

Belle: "It can be so easy to rationalize doing the wrong thing."  Speaking the writer's credo.

SO much wrong with this episode on so many levels.  I can't watch anymore even for Robert Carlyle's sake.  I think I'll check in here periodically to see how bad it's getting.  Hopefully, this is the last season.

Bobby is a really good actor, but even he couldn't mask his 'da fuck?!?' reaction to what Gideon was saying.  

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So is Charming just leaving Snow to be burned in the sleeping curse burning room?  I'm glad that he's taking responsibility that his "wish" had consequences but really you're just going to leave your wife to be tortured?

And I love Eion but even my love for him does not negate the douche things his character has done to Emma.  So at 10 she can't be on the streets but then it is fine at 15/16 and sending her to jail? I'm mean the moral of this whole series has been that Emma should eat the shit served to her from her so called parents, friends, son and lover (Neal) and not only thank them all for the privilege but ask for seconds!

On its own this episode was okay if you didn't relate it to any other episode in the series. I'll respond in the writer's thread with a theory about the genre they are writing.

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I didn't care for old man Hook.  The actor was just channeling his inner Captain Jack Sparrow, and it was a bit too much for me.  I'm glad it was only for a brief period of time.

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Here's my "the day after" thoughts.

The episode was better than the majority of 6A, and a significant improvement over the season premiere. It wasn't awful, but it was riddled with plot holes and retcons. It steered the show back to its normal formula, and most of the characters had good moments. I'm sort of happy to have Robin back, since this version of him actually has a backbone. My biggest gripe with the episode was August, who unfortunately took up the most time. It was obvious that Hook was sidelined in favor of him, which was really unfair. A&E once again whitewashed someone who did Emma wrong. But, that being said, I enjoyed seeing Emma be a badass again. At least she wasn't sitting around brooding like she did in 5A and 6A. Her new attitude is, "I'm going to protect those I love, even if I have to die", and that's a triumph. Finally, something is true to her character.

Quote

I agree--good guy Rumple is out of character for this season.  However, since it's also a version of Rumple that has more depth and is less cartoony, I'm going to take it and be grateful.

Whenever he sweet talks Belle about how he wants to do the right thing for Gideon, I have this nagging feeling that he's just going to betray everyone. I'm skeptical to just take it because these writers like to make Rumple pull a 180 for big!shocking!twists.

Quote

The problem is that there has been no redemption process. Regina just changed sides and declared herself redeemed, and her victims went along with it. There has never been a point at which she's realized and acknowledged where she went wrong or that she even was wrong. She merely stopped trying to kill people, for no reason that we know of, other than maybe that it was the only way to get Henry to love her. She's never had that moment of realizing the impact her actions had on other people, and she's never shown any sign that she cares. Really, even here it wasn't like she felt bad for the people she'd harmed. She seemed to be feeling sad for herself because people were happier without her rather than sad for them that she'd caused that much harm.

As far as Regina goes, this episode just handed what she wanted on a silver platter. She got something free with very little effort. I hate how she can be a raging hypocritical bitch to Zelena, then a hero of faith in the Swan Queen adventures. Here she gets her boyfriend back, and this time she doesn't have to worry about Marian or Roland! That's right - there's no baggage this time. She didn't even need to convince him of her love, he just went along with it. Meanwhile, Zelena is at home with a baby and crying into her cereal. Stupid REC.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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I wasn't able to pay full attention to the episode becasue I am staying with friends and they have a year old baby.

Robin was the most interesting he's been in the whole series. But OQ is still drippy, and I have no patience for self-pitying Regina. How convenient that Regina failed to mention his kids.

Gideon is such a whiny emo brat! Rumple is offering him help, and Belle maybe isn't going to be trying to stop him from killing Emma.

Old Hook should have played the part given to wish!August. I'm not saying Emma should only interact with Killian. But the pairing up of Emma with young virile August instead of "unattractive" Old Hook was terrible. Old Hook wasn't even really Hook--it was impossible to recognize one whit of the original character in this interpretation. He doesn't even know what a chisel is?? And way to make Emma seem superficial and shallow. Blackbeard would have served the purpose better. The Wishrealm's versions of Hook and Emma were completely illogical and OOC, and made their loved ones look bad (Snowing in wish!Emma's case, and Emma in wish!Hook's case).

Why was Nottingham still young? Did a part of Robin's soul end up in him too?

So, Snow and Charming need to kiss each other in the mouth to make the TLK work? Ooookay...

Poor little Emma. My heart breaks for her. And we are supposed to glorify Regina, August, and Neal for the shitty life she had??!

Thank goodness we've finally done with the dumb wishverse!

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It's weird that this episode is technically an "Emma Centric" and she had the most screen time, but it didn't feel at all like Emma was the focus of the episode.

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Oh, right, Once Upon A Time is back.  A long time ago, I would have been really excited and bummed that I had to wait till later to watch it, but now not so much.  Still pissed how they wasted a perfectly cast Karen David as Jasmine...

Anyway, so basically Emma and Regina are able to get back, after Emma finds an Alt-August in their fake universe (or whatever the hell it is), and he is able to rebuild the wardrobe for them to go back home.  Of course, that was only after they had to fend of a fat, old, drunken Hook (Colin O'Donoghue was having so much fun in that scene), and then Emma had to give August a pep talk, after he got all mopey when the magical tool got destroyed.  Whatever works!

Meanwhile, Regina uses all this time to hunt down Alt-Robin, and find out if he is leading a happy a life without her.  He says yes at first, but after first getting kidnapped by Nottingham (Will Traval was great as always), and then Rumple, he finally admits that Marion died and he's actually just your average selfish criminal.  But they break out, Emma convinces Regina to take a chance and bring him along, and... it works? So, Robin is back, I see.  Congrats to Sean Maguire for getting back on this show, despite getting killed off.  Of course, with this show, it might not really be a good thing.

So, Gideon is here and he basically wants to kill Emma, because he wants to be the Savior, and I guess he thinks whoever kills one will claim all of their powers or something.  Kind of underwhelmed by all of this.  I know there is no way they are actually going to kill Emma, so there is just no suspense.  I guess the only thing that has any curiosity is how far will Rumple and Belle go to try and protect him?

For some reason, there was a lot of random moments that made me laugh for no reason.  Like Rumple just casually dropping Belle's bones on the ground.  Or Henry trying to be all kingly on top of a horse (sorry Jared Gilmore.  That isn't your strong point.)  Just a lot of random stuff going on.

I did enjoy the "Regina sees Robin at the pub" flashback, for the brief appearance of Tinkerbell and Rose McIver.  Can't wait for iZombie to come back!

Charming feels guilt over bringing Gideon here, so he keeps Snow knocked out.  Or, in other words, Ginnifer Goodwin wants more time with the baby, so Josh Dallas gets some extra shifts in!

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2 hours ago, Curio said:

It's weird that this episode is technically an "Emma Centric" and she had the most screen time, but it didn't feel at all like Emma was the focus of the episode.

Its because Emma doesn't get to have any feelings about anything.  That is what I realized last night.  I enjoyed the Regina storyline (I know) but it was because Robin was more interesting and Regina was having feelings.  Whether they are deserved or not is debatable but I understood why she felt that way from Regina's point of view.

Emma was relegated to trying to get Pinocchio to have confidence and that her savior destiny is to die. 

The former isn't about Emma.  The latter?  Who cares.  If Emma doesn't have feelings about her dual set of memories and they never spend time on any of her familial relationships then the 'savior destiny' loses its heft as an emotional arc.

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I haven't seen the episode yet. Everytime I think "I'm going to watch it", I see a pic or a gif of old Hook in Tumblr and I decide against it. I don't know, maybe I would watch it tomorrow, but for the clips I've seen and the things I've read, it looks awful.

Edited by RadioGirl27
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I watched the premiere and got the feeling there was two episodes mic in one without developing very well either side.

First, all the very very soapy elements.

The rumbelle family drama and adding the tension between The Charming clan and Belle.

2) all the OQ stuff degoulinait de soapy sentiments.

3) the snowing conversation also remember me of the coma trope.

On the other side there was the Emma and August classic more fairytale touch from Once including the moral that the characters learn link to a flashback.

I did liked the Young Emma and old Hook did make laughed. For me it was the best part the rest... I have one world ordinance!

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So David says to Hook, "The only way Emma will get to see [that hooded figure] is behind bars!"  This is a supposed magical supervillain we're talking about.  And he's totally serious about putting him in jail instead of killing him. 

I had difficulties hearing some of the dialogue last night, so I was looking at the transcript, and saw some gems.

Quote

- What happened here? Was that really Gold and Belle's baby?

- We'll fill you in later. Hopefully, he won't be back for a while.

Uh, based on what?  For all they knew, Gideon could come back for another round 5 minutes later.  I know we need to wait til next week for another episode, but the characters shouldn't.

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EMMA: When I was a kid and you told me to go to the police station, did you know it was me?

No, he didn't know it was you.  He was just *that* caring and a budding teenage social worker.

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RUMPLE: My whole dark life, I've sought out those who are light like you.

To rob them?  WTF else is he referring to?

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19 minutes ago, Camera One said:

So David says to Hook, "The only way Emma will get to see [that hooded figure] is behind bars!"  This is a supposed magical supervillain we're talking about.  And he's totally serious about putting him in jail instead of killing him.  

Its a step in the right direction compared to letting him roam free because reasons.

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32 minutes ago, Camera One said:

To rob them?  WTF else is he [Rumple] referring to?

Well, he had to get those True Love babies, somehow.  He had a fairly lucrative, albeit gross and creepy, trade going.   And based on what we've seen, the "Light" side are more likely to be stupid enough or naïve enough to make bad deals.

Edited by Mari · Reason: clarification
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I'm not sure what the Writers were trying to say there.  Here was the context:

Quote

I know you don't believe that's what I want, Belle, but it's true.
When Baelfire rejected my magic, I respected it.
I just wasn't brave enough to follow it.
My whole dark life, I've sought out those who are light like you.

Edited by Camera One
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7 hours ago, tri4335 said:

So is Charming just leaving Snow to be burned in the sleeping curse burning room?

Silly person, the sleeping curse burning room is sooooooooooooooooooo Season 4!  Do you really expect these writers to remember that?

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Apparently, the Sleeping Curse is restful and can recharge you to fight another day.

From Season 1: "Evil Queen: It won’t kill you. No, what it will do is far worse. Your body will be your tomb, and you’ll be in there with nothing but dreams formed of your own regrets.

Yeah, Snow, savor it for another night.

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3 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Its because Emma doesn't get to have any feelings about anything. 

That's one of this show's biggest weaknesses. Emma is never allowed to have feelings about what she's experienced and is barely allowed to have feelings about things that are happening to her right now (she does get to smile or shed a tear occasionally, but it's forgotten before the next scene). That, then, makes her character unrelatable, which is used as an excuse to sideline her. Lather, rinse, repeat.

So we had Emma, who now has yet another set of fake memories for a life she might have wished she could have had but didn't in reality. To go with her fake memories of bringing up Henry on her own she now has fake memories of growing up as a princess in a palace with loving parents -- and we have absolutely no idea how she feels about that because the whole episode was focused either on how Pinocchio felt about himself or on whether this world's version of Robin was happier than the real world version or on how Regina felt to find out that everyone other than maybe Robin was happier with her having been defeated before she could cast the curse. She didn't get to have feelings about how Hook turned out without her in his life, no feelings about watching her mother be killed by Regina yet again. Emma is basically a robot carrying out duties to serve others.

Plus, we had yet another case of the characters having read the script because there was no urgency whatsoever in the Wishverse side of the plot. Emma didn't seem at all worried that she wouldn't get to see her Hook again, that she'd be trapped in a world where her parents were dead. Meanwhile, Regina was so unconcerned that she had time to run off and find out what was going on with Robin. I guess they both flipped to near the end and knew they'd get home okay, so they might as well enjoy their time.

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I just watched the episode earlier, and haven't read through the comments yet.  I thought it was pretty boring.  In fact, I kept nodding off and it wasn't even that late.  Now, that could be because I think I'm coming down with a cold (can feel it in my throat) but it's probably just because it was boring.  That scene with Robin and Regina (I know - you're wondering 'which one?  That was practically the entire episode' - and well, yes, you are correct about that) where they were in the tower room: I know I backed that up at least 4 times to find out what was actually said, because almost as soon as the door shut, so did my eyes.  That is not an exaggeration.  

Fat, drunk, old Hook was even worse than I feared.  Who thought that was funny?  Maybe the actors had a great time playing with that, but it was painfully disgusting to watch.  It was also completely pointless.  They could have easily left it out.  It could have been practically any other character, especially since they weren't by the sea anyway.  It was pretty obvious it was only there to pander to the Hook-hater crowd.

So, it was Emma's wish, but it wasn't Emma's wish and people there aren't real except when Regina wants them to be so they can go back to the real world with her.  Got it.  That explains everything.  And why the HELL would Emma, of all people, suggest that Not!Robin come back after what happened with Marian?  Did Emma bump her head on that magical tree?

Pretty boring and awful.  You know it's bad when you think Not!Henry was the best thing about the show.  

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I would love, love, love it if Not!Robin is playing Regina. There's a twist I could get behind. He seemed to go with her we're in love & soulmate tale way too easily. His life was crap and he was on the run constantly and now the hot Evil Queen is offering him everything and a get out of Wishverse hell free card. She's the perfect mark. Please be evil and playing Regina, Robin! I will take back every bad thing I said about your bland counterpart if you redeem yourself by messing with Regina.

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I wanted to like it.  I really did, but it was just sooo boring!  It was like the writers knew that they had to get Emma and Regina back to Storybrooke, but they didn't really know how to do it.  Hoping for better next week!!

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Was this episode and the one before meant to be an epic 2-hour finale?  I guess I really should leave epic out of it...

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22 hours ago, Curio said:

I can't help but think of so many different scenarios A&E could have written instead that would have improved the Old Hook/Emma conclusion.

This would have been awesome!  So, if you kill A&E, do you assume their powers as showrunners/writers?  ;)

16 hours ago, Worsel said:

And by the way, who is watching the Evil Queen/Snake?  Grumpy and the other Dwarves?  

They're feeding her tacos for lunch, I hear.  

14 hours ago, Curio said:

Gideon and everyone else on this show are such dumbasses. "I need to kill the Savior so I can save the Dark Realm!" Dude, how about just saving the Dark Realm by yourself? You don't need a name change to do it! It's the same stupid reason why Jasmine keeps bugging Aladdin to save Agrabah, but now their situation makes less sense because Aladdin doesn't even have the Savior title anymore. If it's the "Savior" name on the business card that is the most important, shouldn't Jasmine be bugging Emma to save Agrabah instead of Aladdin? 

So does this mean that Aladdin is going to have to kill Emma to regain his savior status in order to save Agrabah?

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

(3) When Regina was telling Robin #2 what a great life Robin #1 had back in her world, she said he helped people, he loved his friends, he loved her, and she conveniently left out the fact that he has two kids. 

Yeah, I noticed that too.  It was pretty glaringly obvious.  Did the writers think we'd miss it?

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Maybe it's to setup a big fight in the next episode so there'd be drama.  A bunch of crying along with a passionate makeup kiss.

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2 minutes ago, Camera One said:

A bunch of crying along with a passionate makeup kiss.

Will that take place in the crypt as well? Right by the cage where EQ!Regina is stashed?

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1 hour ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

This would have been awesome!  So, if you kill A&E, do you assume their powers as showrunners/writers?  ;)

No, all I have to do is believe in myself that I can become a showrunner, have a random flashback of that one time a boy accosted me on the street and told me not to throw away my OUAT DVD collection, and then it will magically happen.

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2 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

This would have been awesome!  So, if you kill A&E, do you assume their powers as showrunners/writers?  ;)

I think we have to find out!  Discovery requires experimentation!

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After reading this recap, makes me glad I stopped watching at the end of the season before they introduced Cruella de Vil as a witch. Yuck. I can't believe this show still manages to pull the ratings necessary to keep pumping out craptastic stories week after week.

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Good returning episode. Liked the Emma/August flashbacks, even if once again we've seen that August is kind of a crappy big brother and whatnot.

Regina getting her own Robin again seemed a little too convenient but I guess maybe we'll see some problems with the pair further down the line.

Gideon might need to up his game if he's going to be the main threat for the second half of this season. He's just tepid so far. Did like Emma kicking his ass though.

Alternative Hook was funny though, 7/10

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On 3/5/2017 at 9:56 PM, sharky said:

I did, and I'm not proud of it. At least it hooked you. :P

On another note, did anyone read the PTV recap for this? Geez. That guy needs to come in here and hang out with us for a bit before writing those things. From the recap:

Emma's wardrobe only held two people. The whole basis of the show is that Emma had to come to this world by herself because the wardrobe only held two people and that stupid Pinocchio screwed things over for her before she was even born! I had to make up an excuse for this to make me feel better because it was so glaring of a continuity error!

And he gave a "No" to green screen fakeness even though Nottingham was clearly not really in the forest when Rumple did away with him.

Although I will give the writer credit for pulling "A true wood carver must always be in conversation with his tool," out of context.

Was it that the wardrobe would only "hold" two people, or was it about the strength of the magic. Didn't Pinocchio take a solo trip, which used up one portion of the magic? What I'm trying to ask is: was it an issue of physical capacity or magical potency? I forget more than I remember about this show.

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