S13.E14: Back Where You Belong

[SimoneS]

9 hours ago, Biggie B said:

Another thing that rankled me a bit was something Riggs brought up. When he and Maggie were watching the parents initially reuniting with their long-lost daughter, he expressed a bit of anger and bitterness towards the parents. He said that they buried an empty box and then went about their lives, drinking cappuccinos (or the like), and sailing along as if nothing happened. I disagree...the mother said that the daughter's disappearance took a toll on her marriage. She mentioned press conferences and searching through the forest. I highly doubt that the past 12 years were a joy ride for her or her now ex-husband. Yes, she perhaps made peace with her daughter's "death," because that's a survival mechanism. But I'm sure she hasn't been full of light and joy in the past 12 years. So hearing Riggs say that the parents should feel like shit now, and deserved to feel shitty, made me angry at him. He has NO idea what the parents' lives have been like since the daughter vanished! I'd warrant a guess that they've been quite miserable, even if they've managed to continue going about their lives - because what were they supposed to do, kill themselves? So whatever Riggs' personal issues were/are about mental illness or people vanishing or whatever - he shouldn't project those onto total strangers, just as Jo shouldn't project her feelings/issues about her abuse onto Kidney Mom.

This. I was enjoying that story until Riggs totally made the family's tragedy and joyous reunion all about him, even for Grey's this was way too self-involved. It really annoyed me.

Edited February 24, 2017 by SimoneS

[OtterMommy]

This felt like another misfire episode for me.  I think there was a lot of potential there, but nearly everything seemed mishandled.

First off, I feel like we're missing a couple episodes between last week's and this week's in regards to Minnick and Arizona.  There was just too much of a jump there on Arizona's part for me to take any of it seriously.  I still really do not like the idea of Minnick and Arizona, but I know it is inevitable.  Blech.  But seriously....no chemistry there (and I'm the sort of person who sees chemistry where most others don't....).  

Minnick as a character just seems so...haphazard!  I don't get here and, worse, I don't *want* to get her.  Sadly, I think that is a result of both writing and acting.  If we compare her to Hahn (about whom I felt similarly), it just feels like the acting is bringing down an already sagging character--where, with Hahn, Brooke Smith's strong acting just couldn't rescue the character from the writing.  The other thing that bothers me--which is no one's fault except the casting agent--is that she looks too much like Arizona for me.  I mean, she almost looks like Jessica Capshaw put on a wig and is doing this all in a split screen--except, if she were, Minnick would be better performed.

I actually liked the kidney transplant story line...until it became all about Jo.  I'm ambivalent about that character so it is not like I resent her presence or anything--it just all lacked any sort of subtlety and felt like I was watching some sort of PSA.  If they did have a message to bring home, I wish they would have trusted Luddington's acting ability to do it, and not hammer it so hard in the script.

The story line with the homeless woman was probably the most successful for me, but that still isn't saying much.  It was interesting an all, but I kept wondering why Maggie and Nathan had absolutely nothing better to do than hem and haw over a patient after a routine surgery.  Since they are apparently the entire cardio department, it seems strange that there were no other cardio cases requiring their attention (although I was glad to say that there is at least one Psych doctor in the hospital).

One thing I'm afraid of is that they are going to try to resuscitate the Nathan/Meredith/Maggie triangle...AGAIN!  Ugh...just...don't!  They seem intent on bring back the Meredith/Nathan angle, which I wish they wouldn't.  Nathan was probably the most interesting to me he's been yet in this show in this episode and I'd much rather have more of that than some run of the mill on-call room shenanigans.

Pouty Jackson was just ridiculous.  It is pretty obvious that they are going towards some big April/Jackson moment--which I am okay with.  I'm just not a fan of how they are setting it up right now.

The whole suspended Meredith mess was cleaned up pretty easily (rolls eyes.).  However, all I could think of in that first scene with her drowning in laundry is that this was the first time in 13 seasons I could truly relate to her...

[cinsays]

If your child is going to die if he does not get a kidney, you'll take a kidney from anyone with a good one, if that means your estranged husband or a mass murderer who was an organ donor, I think you'll take it.  You are not taking on that person's character/bad traits, you're just staying alive.  You don't have to have a relationship with the person.

And, we really don't know the full story of what the father was like.  Sounds like the wife and kid fled in the night and he's been looking for them.  And he seemed concerned about his son, so maybe he is not a totally bad guy.  He still has legal parental rights if they are still married, so forcing him out may have made sense emotionally, but he had a right to be there and see his son.  I didn't think it was necessary to question his motives either, not the hospital staff's role to call him out.  Maybe he wanted to do one really good thing for his son.

I very much dislike Minnick and her role and if Arizona finds her attractive despite her personality and her philosophy, I like her less than I did too.

[Biggie B]

Quote

And he seemed concerned about his son, so maybe he is not a totally bad guy.

He was hitting his wife, so he's a bad guy. But yes, his kidney is all that matters in this situation.

[Deanie87]

7 minutes ago, cinsays said:

If your child is going to die if he does not get a kidney, you'll take a kidney from anyone with a good one, if that means your estranged husband or a mass murderer who was an organ donor, I think you'll take it.  You are not taking on that person's character/bad traits, you're just staying alive.  You don't have to have a relationship with the person.

I agree with this, but at that point, it wasn't 100% certain that there wasn't another option.  Its not like Jo said, "I WOULD RATHER THE KID DIE ON THE TABLE THAN TAKE A KIDNEY FROM THAT MONSTER!!!"  She wanted to consult with the mother at the very least or exhaust other options.  When she wasn't able to do that, she took the kidney.  And, as a survivor of domestic violence, she realized that as much as the father most likely wanted to save his son, he also was looking for any means to exert power and control over his family.  And while obviously saving both patients' lives was the primary goal, doing that in a way that wasn't going to make the rest of their lives a living hell was important to her as well.  Boy, what a bitch!

Also, have I been watching a completely different show all of these years?  Is this the first time that a doctor has made a patient storyline all about them (and I don't even think that Jo did that)?  Isn't that what literally every single doctor does on nearly every single case in nearly every single episode?  Are these NOT the most self-centered people on the face of the earth?  Just Jo?  Okay.

[OtterMommy]

1 minute ago, Deanie87 said:

Also, have I been watching a completely different show all of these years?  Is this the first time that a doctor has made a patient storyline all about them (and I don't even think that Jo did that)?  Isn't that what literally every single doctor does on nearly every single case in nearly every single episode?  Are these NOT the most self-centered people on the face of the earth?  Just Jo?  Okay.

Oh, it's definitely not the first time.  I just felt it was far more blatant than usual in this case....and unnecessarily so.  Let's face it,*every* case on this show is about one of the regular characters.  Personally, I think it works more often than not--but only when some amount of subtlety is used, which was absent in this story line with Jo.

[Deanie87]

MMV, but any episode where Jo doesn't utter the phrase "I lived in my car," is a subtle one to me LOL!  The case clearly mirrored what she has gone through (and it isn't the first one either), but I thought that it was subtle in that she saw the case from an angle that wasn't completely obvious to everyone else (the fact that it was power and control that motivating the father), and she did it without having to give an Oliver Twist monologue detailing every bad thing that ever happened to her.  In fact, she didn't refer to her own experience even once.  After the way that these writers have dealt with Jo, I find that to be subtle.  Which ain't saying much, but here we are.  

And I'm not even Jo's #1 fan by any means, but I do think that she gets held to a different standard and gets called out every single time for stuff that every single character does. And not just called out, but called a bitch, a liar, a psycho, a whiner, a drama queen, a thing....and on and on.  Which isn't to say that she isn't some of those things sometimes because she is, but it gets annoying after a while. 

[dmc]

8 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

MMV, but any episode where Jo doesn't utter the phrase "I lived in my car," is a subtle one to me LOL!  The case clearly mirrored what she has gone through (and it isn't the first one either), but I thought that it was subtle in that she saw the case from an angle that wasn't completely obvious to everyone else (the fact that it was power and control that motivating the father), and she did it without having to give an Oliver Twist monologue detailing every bad thing that ever happened to her.  In fact, she didn't refer to her own experience even once.  After the way that these writers have dealt with Jo, I find that to be subtle.  Which ain't saying much, but here we are.  

And I'm not even Jo's #1 fan by any means, but I do think that she gets held to a different standard and gets called out every single time for stuff that every single character does. And not just called out, but called a bitch, a liar, a psycho, a whiner, a drama queen, a thing....and on and on.  Which isn't to say that she isn't some of those things sometimes because she is, but it gets annoying after a while. 

every time Jo says the car deal I don't believe her...I don't know why...I mean I don't think she's lying...but somehow its not convincing

[St. Claire]

6 hours ago, Biggie B said:

When he and Maggie were watching the parents initially reuniting with their long-lost daughter, he expressed a bit of anger and bitterness towards the parents. He said that they buried an empty box and then went about their lives, drinking cappuccinos (or the like), and sailing along as if nothing happened.

I didn't take it as being bitter and angry toward them- he followed up the "then they moved on with their lives and drank lattes" thing with the explanation of them feeling so guilty for being able to do so. The hardest choice that family made after however long of not being able to find her was to say that life would go on without her, even though they couldn't prove she was really gone. He never claimed that they weren't affected by her loss. When you move on from someone who has died, when you get to bury a body, you get to move on. If you bury an empty coffin and eventually move on, even years later, you've "given up."

I saw the idea of Bad Dad donating the kidney coming from a mile away. I'm just glad that they didn't use this as a way to make him the hero; he had enough humanity to do this one good thing for his kid (who is abused physically and psychologically), but he needed to walk away and not use it as a way to ingratiate himself with his wife and son. Although the gushing from the mom about good people in the world was a bit heavy handed. The docs should just have said that another kidney match became available in the hospital, but that the identify needed to be kept secret. Donor families are allowed to make that decision, so it could very well have been a patient who died whose organ was donated. Although that could blow back up at them, since there is the potential for them to see each other during the hospital recovery- when my husband donated, there was the daily "slug line" of the donors doing their shuffle around the floor with their rolling IV poles, since they were required to get up and move around as part of their recovery.

Edited February 24, 2017 by St. Claire

[Court]

As we all know this show is unrealistic but there is no way in most hospitals, a dr would just take someone to a patient without looking at the records. Every single time the kids or I have been in an hospital, they ask me if it's ok to tell people we're there. Then if they can give the room number out. They also ask if there is anyone that can't know. 

 

Heck, this is even standard practice at my kids elementary school.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Court

[Biggie B]

Quote

I didn't take it as being bitter and angry toward them- he followed up the "then they moved on with their lives and drank lattes" thing with the explanation of them feeling so guilty for being able to do so. The hardest choice that family made after however long of not being able to find her was to say that life would go on without her, even though they couldn't prove she was really gone. He never claimed that they weren't affected by her loss. When you move on from someone who has died, when you get to bury a body, you get to move on. If you bury an empty coffin and eventually move on, even years later, you've "given up."

I disagree. I interpreted Riggs' comments as extremely judgmental. He said the parents felt guilty and "should." That's quite harsh. He has no idea what they went through in those 12 years. To say that burying an empty coffin and continuing with your life is giving up is harsh - what were the parents supposed to do, kill themselves? I would think that they are suffering every day, albeit by now, their suffering is likely internal and non-visible. I truly, truly felt that Riggs was criticizing them for moving on. Well, what would he suggest they should have been doing in the past 12 years? They still need to get up every day, go to work, pay bills, eat, and sleep. Perhaps they had other children to deal with as well. And we don't know how soon they had the funeral after the daughter disappeared. It could have been weeks, months, or even years later, but whenever it was, if that's what it took for them to get through the following rest of their own lives, they get to do that. There's no template for things like this, as they are so completely outside the norm. Having a funeral, and accepting that your child is gone is not giving up, and no one gets to decide how the parents get to proceed or act in the years to come. And that's what I felt Riggs was doing, and I didn't like it.

[funnygirl]

How long was Meredith suspended for? Did they say, does anyone know? 

[dmc]

7 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

IDK, he was rather attractive in Season 1 without the beard.  But it is psych, not surgery, and we all know that any department which isn't surgery on GA is automatically deficient.

Hell, that was a major plot point on a third season episode of Law & Order way back in 1992.

 

Actually there was some discussion of it in the first scene.  Alex brought it up, and Meredith said something about checking the bylaws (or something to that effect) and it was legit.  She commented about that being how bored she was.

I did hear this but I am still surprised she just take her issue straight to the board for a vote. 

[Starscream]

6 hours ago, cinsays said:

If your child is going to die if he does not get a kidney, you'll take a kidney from anyone with a good one, if that means your estranged husband or a mass murderer who was an organ donor, I think you'll take it.  You are not taking on that person's character/bad traits, you're just staying alive.

You just might in Springfield, USA.

Quote

I didn't think it was necessary to question his motives either, not the hospital staff's role to call him out.

That's how they roll.  The prison episode was the latest example.  At least this time there was some decent context for their unwanted moralizing.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Starscream

[nope-later]

On 2/23/2017 at 9:04 PM, chitowngirl said:

i immediately thought that the old pacemaker would have a serial number. Why didn't the heart Doctor?!!

Don't these people watch Bones?!

Edited February 25, 2017 by nope-later

[Deanie87]

10 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

DK, he was rather attractive in Season 1 without the beard.  But it is psych, not surgery, and we all know that any department which isn't surgery on GA is automatically deficient.

Quote

I thought so too.  He and Nurse Tyler both, and what I wouldn't give for Sydney Heron to show up and knock some cheery sense into these assholes!  I will admit, however, that the gray in the Psych guy's beard was an unwelcome reminder of exactly how long I have been watching this show.  Yikes.

[statsgirl]

It's SOP for this show to have the doctors take out their own feelings on their patients. But sometimes, it just crosses the line for me and becomes too much to take.

I suppose it's too much to hope that Riggs/Mer won't happen now that he's blaming the parents for giving up too soon, and ignoring the fact that their daughter's disappearance caused their marriage to fall apart.  Run, Maggie, run.  You have little understanding in common with him and he's not really into you.

12 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

I hate this whole stupid storyline because the #resistance docs are acting like a bunch of idiots. I get being loyal to Webber, I get not liking Minnick, I get not like new people in general especially when they're in the way of the people you like, but for crying out loud! It's work! Stop taking everything so personally! Just do your damn jobs and get on with it. I accept going to Bailey with their concerns and objections, but that should be the end of it. This fake coup they're staging, icing Minnick out of surgery like a bunch of mean girls in high school, Meredith refusing to return to work until Minnick leaves? Grow the fuck up, people. And I don't blame April at all for accepting Bailey's offer to replace Meredith in the meantime. What is she supposed to do? What is the department supposed to do? They need someone running point in general with Meredith out. April refusing the offer would have been just as petty, nonsensical and potentially career-destroying as Meredith's stubbornness in refusing to go back now, and Jackson needs to get off her ass about it regardless of whatever "reason" is behind his real annoyance. I can't wait for this plot to end.

You are too kind.   I've been thinking they're acting like a bunch of kindergarteners who were told that they couldn't play with their favourtie toys.

22 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

I thought that in this instance she wasn't making it about herself at all, she was making it about the mother, who was also her patient.  She understood exactly what would go through the mother's mind and how that kidney may end up tainted somehow, regardless of how much it saved her son's life.  And how much power it would give that father over her and her son.  I thought that the way that they framed all of that was subtle (for Grey's) and that it was clear that unless you had been through what she and the mother had been through,  you wouldn't get it.  She also was more against them doing it without the mother's permission and because she thought that there were other options that, in the end, would be the best outcome for both of her patients.  When she realized that the father was the only hope, that was that, and then her solution was that the kidney was to be given anonymously so that it would save the kid's life AND not be something that wouldn't be traumatizing for the mother going forward.  I know that Jo can absolutely do nothing right for a lot of people and just can't win no matter what she does, but honestly I really think that she did the right thing here for BOTH of her patients.

She didn't know how the mother would feel, she knew how she would feel if she were in the mother's situation.  But she's not the mother, she's never had a child of her own, so she can't know how the mother would feel.   The mother was willing to die to save her son's life, would she really turn down the kidney from her ex even though she hated him?  The damage is done,  her kid already has his genes.

But where Jo lost me was when she told the father to donate anonymously and never contact his son again.  I suspect that was the wrong thing to do medically (in case they ever needed further medical information from the donor) but I know it was the wrong thing to do psychologically.  Right now the kid thinks that his father doesn't care about him at all.  If he learned that his father was the donor, that his father was willing to undergo the pain and the risk of the surgery, maybe he's think instead "My father has major problems but he does care about me as much as he is able."

Having the father's kidney wouldn't give him any more power over them if they decided not to let it.

[Madding crowd]

I agree. It will be helpful to the son to know that his dad did this thing for him. Sometimes children of 'bad' people are scared they are bad themselves or that something is wrong with them if the parent doesn't care. It doesn't mean they need to forgive or have a relationship. I would not want to be in the hospital where an doctor yells at people in an operating room while they are awaiting surgery.

 

I also didn't understand Riggs being so mad at the parents. At some point the police and even private investigators will have given up. What else could they do? 

[Joana]

51 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I also didn't understand Riggs being so mad at the parents. At some point the police and even private investigators will have given up. What else could they do? 

I think he was projecting his own feelings onto them, because he's probably blaming himself on some level for "giving up" on Megan.

I didn't find the usual doctors-patients parallels all that subtle, it was way too obvious right from the start what it's all about. Still, the show has done much worse in the past, so I didn't mind it all that much. The case with the schizophrenic patient was particularly interesting and rather well done. I was almost sure that the woman would calm down completely once she saw her parents and that they could take her home and live happily ever after, so I appreciate it that the show ackownledged that psychiatric conditions are usually a lot more complicated than that. 

I usually like her, but Jo was really insufferable here. I especially hated it when she basically started harrassing the patient and putting him in distress when he was about to undergo surgery. He could be the worst person in the world, still it doesn't mean he deserves it right before he is supposed to be operated, and to save someone else's life, no less. Anyway, I believe this is all the set-up for Jo's BIG REVEAL!!!1 and I really hope they get it over with already. 

Speaking of storylines that cannot be ended soon enough, the whole "April is a job-stealer" nonsense needs to stop. Seriously. 

Arizona and Minnick, ugh. First of all, Arizona's huge turnaround literally overnight is ridiculous. Like someone said, it feels like we've missed a couple of episodes dealing with the development of their relationship. And to me, they are even worse than Callie and Penny. At least Penny was a decent human being, for what it's worth. So far there's nothing that has convinced me that Minnick is not the smug asshole she was when she first showed up. 

[izabella]

Jo still doesn't understand that secrets and lies do more damage than the truth.

[Blonde Gator]

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I agree. It will be helpful to the son to know that his dad did this thing for him. Sometimes children of 'bad' people are scared they are bad themselves or that something is wrong with them if the parent doesn't care. It doesn't mean they need to forgive or have a relationship. I would not want to be in the hospital where an doctor yells at people in an operating room while they are awaiting surgery.

 

I also didn't understand Riggs being so mad at the parents. At some point the police and even private investigators will have given up. What else could they do? 

I suspect Riggs was disgusted with himself, and reflected that disgust on the parents of the schizophrenic patient.  We'll see more Riggs' self-loathing soon, I bet.

On the subject of Riggs, I wish they'd do more with Riggs & Owen, as they did with Derek & Mark, putting their friendship back together.  One of my favorite episodes ever was all of the men working on Derek's deck.  The show could use more real friendship and less made-up drama, IMO.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Blonde Gator
Bad grammar, ACK!

[moonorchid]

When I finally watched the episode today I thought it was a more well put together episode then my impression was from reading reviews from viewers last night.

It seems the only time it bothers people when doctors project their problems onto patients is when it's a doctor you don't like. Funny enough I didn't find that Jo was projecting her issue, it came off as more her relating to the mom in that she also was a victim of domestic violence. This was some of camillas best acting because the writing let her be more subtle than "I USED TO LIVE IN MY CAR". When Jo was talking about not letting the dad give his kidney because he would use this to weasel his way back in and gain control over them...it was the realist moment Jo has ever had. You felt that she HAD been there and knew the fear the mom had. Abusive situations are about the abuser gaining control over a person and keeping it at all cost. So I may not know first hand but I felt that Jo did and feeling that isn't something this show excels had nowadays, so brava. 

Riggs on the other hand was completely projecting his own guilt over moving on with his life after his finance went missing, the anger he dircted at the parents was equal parts "wtf dude you need to chill" and "he's angry with himself and a part of him always will be" with me and I was able to accept it. Now do I enjoy that this was a moment the writers used to show how compatible Riggs and Meredith are? Meh not really but sometimes it's easier to just go with the grain with this show, especially when there are storylines going on that absolutely make my blood boil.

Arizona is a hypocrite in my eyes and while I was able to forgive rattimg it aprils pregnancy to Jackson without so much as a warning, this I may have a harder time with. She has side eyed and smugly gone on about how misguided april is and yet she feels it's ok to "consort" with the enemy, except she doesn't want anyone to know cause she's seen how everyone treated april. So yeah, hypocrite. 

Webber and Jackson talking shit about minnick is so grade school. Minnick may be smug, but guess what, so are Jackson and Webber. I was happy to see some semblance of professionalism this episode. No one likes it that Meredith isn't there but April is the replacement and if you want to continue your profession you need to work with her, and I liked how april handled her role this episode. She had a tough decision to make, listened to both Alex and Webber make their case and heard all the options, ruminated for a second and then confidently made a decision. April is beyond capable and I wish she was given more credit for it,  especially by...

Jackson. He has taken this whole thing super personally and his smug, petulant attitude is not a good color on him. He's completely miscontruting the situation to justify his anger. April didn't steal anyone's job, Bailey gave it to her. Minnick didn't steal webbers job, Bailey gave it to her. I just can't with Jackson and his attitude towards April. This all reeks of him still having resentment over her leaving him for Jordan, and April taking this interim position has triggered it. Which if this is revealed I may understand it all better and have a better idea of where his head is at but it doesn't excuse any of it. He has said and implied that he thinks very little of April as a doctor and this is not the first time. It bothers me as someone who ships japril. 

 I don't need or want to see the kids on this show but I think it's lazy and irresponsible and incompetent to not frame the world your writing around the situations that have been introduced...like the fact that Meredith has three kids, one being at least toddler age by now. Meredith can be bored even having kids at home but oh she's soooo bored that she's looking up bylaws, give me a freaking break. 

Which brings me to my last point, I was glad Meredith mentioned looking up whether she can be suspended. I still think it's a slippery slope but it's nice to know that the board members don't just have free reign. Otherwise what's the point of having a chief of surgery. 

P.S: Amelia is totes preggers

Edited February 25, 2017 by moonorchid

[hellmuch]

10 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

Also, have I been watching a completely different show all of these years?  Is this the first time that a doctor has made a patient storyline all about them (and I don't even think that Jo did that)?  Isn't that what literally every single doctor does on nearly every single case in nearly every single episode?  Are these NOT the most self-centered people on the face of the earth?  Just Jo?  Okay.

Exactly! Thank you! Almost every single one of these doctors has had inappropriate non-professional interaction with a patient at some point. They have all let their personal stuff interfere with their work. That's just how the show works. ... granted, it has been done more subtle ways in the past.

I remember, early in season two there was a pretty similar episode with the whole abusive-dad-organ-transplant storyline.  Back then it was the abusive dad who needed a transplant and his kid was the only available donor. It was not so subtly written to reveal more of Alex's background. Cristina had been the one who thought it was wrong let the kid donate and she straight out said that to the mother. 

Quite honestly, where is the fun in watching a show where everybody acts ethnical perfect 100% of the time?

[dr pepper]

A few more comments:

1. When someone offers a kidney, isn't it sop to check both kidneys to make sure the donor can function with just one left?

2. Please stop messing with the relationships. Arizona and Callie was good, then the writers had to throw in some out of character stress. Leave her alone now. Let's assume that she finds her work fulfilling and that she has an occasional fling offstage that has nothing to do with the hospital. Perhaps she uses some hookup service. Findhr? Seekgrl? Femquestr? There must be something.

3. Bailey needs to put a little nazi back into her work persona.

4. I had completely forgotten about Fuzzy Chick Doctor.

[Chas411]

6 hours ago, moonorchid said:

It seems the only time it bothers people when doctors project their problems onto patients is when it's a doctor you don't like.

Pretty much sums it up.

[Meow25]

Minnick and Arizona are HELLS annoying. Two peppy cheerleader types kissing and being all cheery happy makes me want to barfo allover the TEEVEE. BLECH. They look like an effing toothpaste advertisement. MAKE IT STOP.

I like Arizona. I was never a Callie fan, but she is much preferable to this totes annoying asshole.

[readster]

If I hear about Jo's damn car again, I want to find it in the junkyard and run her over with it. Maybe then she will stop putting in her *fill in the blanks* this week on her tough life and untouchable abusive husband and actually say what the DAMN story really is. Since it changes every other episode.

[Deanie87]

1 hour ago, readster said:

If I hear about Jo's damn car again, I want to find it in the junkyard and run her over with it. Maybe then she will stop putting in her *fill in the blanks* this week on her tough life and untouchable abusive husband and actually say what the DAMN story really is. Since it changes every other episode.

Jo didn't mention her car, her past, or even reference herself one time this episode. Alex was the only one who did and Jo shut him down.  That's the whole reason I liked this episode for her.

What is it that we aren't hearing about her story, other than her real name? She ran away from an abusive husband and started a new life after having a difficult childhood.  We likely won't know the actual details unless or until  the husband shows up. Again, they do this crap with characters all the time. They hinted ominous shit about Alex for nearly 5 seasons until we heard about his mother's mental illness.   

[PepSinger]

On 2/24/2017 at 7:01 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I totally cracked up that Minnick went from "Hey, noobs, you know how you've never done this procedure? Congrats, you're doing it by yourself today!" last week to "The correct answer is that you aren't prepared!" this week. All it took was killing a patient for her to tone down her down just a smidge. After she kills a few more patients, she might be tolerable!

LMAO. I had the exact same thought!  Such whiplash!

I agree with whoever said that the schizophrenic daughter plot should've been the A story instead of the transplant. I love Samaire Armstrong, and I wanted to know more about her illness and family. 

The transplant story line I found to be frustrating because Jo made it all about herself. It reminded of that S5 episode where Meredith gets in trouble for giving shit to the mom of the daughter that shot her abusive father. The only difference was that Richard nipped that shit in the bud where as no one here told Jo to have several seats. Also, words cannot express how TIRED I am of Jo's backstory. This show needs to shit or get off the pot. Either give me Jo's entire backstory or never mention it again. It's such a shame, too, because I do like Camilla.

[Gladrags]

On 2/24/2017 at 1:42 PM, OtterMommy said:

First off, I feel like we're missing a couple episodes between last week's and this week's in regards to Minnick and Arizona.  There was just too much of a jump there on Arizona's part for me to take any of it seriously.  I still really do not like the idea of Minnick and Arizona, but I know it is inevitable.  Blech.  But seriously....no chemistry there (and I'm the sort of person who sees chemistry where most others don't....).  Minnick as a character just seems so...haphazard!

I thought so, too - one minute Arizona is cautioning Eliza about her approach, and the next they're giggling together like a pair of tweens on their way to their first dance. There was no development to their relationship - it just went from 0 to 60 off camera. There's been no development in Eliza's character, either - one minute she's reviled for butting in to an entrenched system, and the next she's the Best Teacher Evah. 

Quote

I actually liked the kidney transplant story line...until it became all about Jo.  I'm ambivalent about that character so it is not like I resent her presence or anything--it just all lacked any sort of subtlety and felt like I was watching some sort of PSA.  If they did have a message to bring home, I wish they would have trusted Luddington's acting ability to do it, and not hammer it so hard in the script.

I'm really tired of Jo ... The pouting, whining, the big, teary eyes - I just wish she'd spill her whole damn story already and be done with it! Until then, I don't care about her or her past.  And I'm still trying to figure out how someone as young as she is could have packed in so much experience in such a short life ... 

20 hours ago, dmc said:

I did hear this but I am still surprised she just take her issue straight to the board for a vote. 

I'm not because at least Meredith understands the hierarchy of the hospital - the hierarchy that she herself helped set up. She knows she can't go throwing her weight around because she's on the board. 

Meredith's suspension is not a board issue - board of directors do not meddle (or at least they shouldn't) in personnel issues. The board's job is to hire a CEO, set policy, and take on fiduciary responsibility for the organization. Nothing more. 

[dmc]

1 hour ago, Gladrags said:

I thought so, too - one minute Arizona is cautioning Eliza about her approach, and the next they're giggling together like a pair of tweens on their way to their first dance. There was no development to their relationship - it just went from 0 to 60 off camera. There's been no development in Eliza's character, either - one minute she's reviled for butting in to an entrenched system, and the next she's the Best Teacher Evah. 

I'm really tired of Jo ... The pouting, whining, the big, teary eyes - I just wish she'd spill her whole damn story already and be done with it! Until then, I don't care about her or her past.  And I'm still trying to figure out how someone as young as she is could have packed in so much experience in such a short life ... 

I'm not because at least Meredith understands the hierarchy of the hospital - the hierarchy that she herself helped set up. She knows she can't go throwing her weight around because she's on the board. 

Meredith's suspension is not a board issue - board of directors do not meddle (or at least they shouldn't) in personnel issues. The board's job is to hire a CEO, set policy, and take on fiduciary responsibility for the organization. Nothing more. 

But she thinks Minnick is bad for the hospital period and her method killed someone last week that's a board issue

[dmc]

15 hours ago, hellmuch said:

Exactly! Thank you! Almost every single one of these doctors has had inappropriate non-professional interaction with a patient at some point. They have all let their personal stuff interfere with their work. That's just how the show works. ... granted, it has been done more subtle ways in the past.

I remember, early in season two there was a pretty similar episode with the whole abusive-dad-organ-transplant storyline.  Back then it was the abusive dad who needed a transplant and his kid was the only available donor. It was not so subtly written to reveal more of Alex's background. Cristina had been the one who thought it was wrong let the kid donate and she straight out said that to the mother. 

Quite honestly, where is the fun in watching a show where everybody acts ethnical perfect 100% of the time?

The doctors all do this.  That being said, Jo irritates me too.  I think it's partly the way she's written and partly the acting. The show writes her poorly and the acting is unconvincing to me.  Her "I lived in my car" never sounds believable to me.  It just sounds whiny and it shouldn't.  The actor has to do a better job selling it.  

This week she was better than she had been but they wrote her better this week.  Also I agreed with her...if I woke with the organ of the person that abused me and my kid I would be pissed. It is a power move by the dad.  Owen's maybe he changed is complete BS.  He hasn't changed and now he has a viable reason to get back in their life.

[statsgirl]

16 hours ago, moonorchid said:

It seems the only time it bothers people when doctors project their problems onto patients is when it's a doctor you don't like.

It was the opposite for me in this episode.  I don't like Riggs (still think he's an arrogant ass) but his projecting his guilt on to the parents didn't bother me because it didn't affect the treatment of either the patient or her parents.

On the other hand, I do like Jo but I couldn't stand what she was doing this episode because it had the potential to kill one or both of the son and his mother. Even at the end, when she gave in and permitted the father to donate his kidney, she was still interfering in their relationship by keeping the father from letting his son know that in spite of  his anger issues, he still loved his son enough to donate a kidney to him.  That manipulation had nothing to do with this family's situation  and what was good for them as a family and everything to do with Jo and her own unresolved issues.

ETA:

Quote

Also I agreed with her...if I woke with the organ of the person that abused me and my kid I would be pissed. It is a power move by the dad.

I thought the mother was keeping her kidney and the kid got the father's.  But even if the mother got the kidney, alive is better than not being alive, especially if you have a kid. (I say that as someone whose kid was 20 when I was diagnosed with cancer and staying around for her was my motivation through chemo and radiation.)

We know the dad have very serious problems but we don't enough enough them to know if the dad still cares about his ex wife or not.  It could be a power move to keep her alive but why bother?  If she's dead, he gets the son all to himself.

Edited February 25, 2017 by statsgirl

[ForeverAlone]

Considering that the mother and father were still married (I believe she had just left him, but had not divorced him) and it didn't sound like she had put a restraining order out on her husband, I don't see how the hospital had a legal right to deny the father information about his minor son or force him to leave the hospital when he wasn't making a scene. I thought Jo was out of line by forcing that particular issue, but I also thought the mother was completely wrong for blaming Jo for bringing the father to see his son. I mean, how the hell is Jo supposed to know that he is an abusive father or that the mother and son didn't want to see him? If the mother was that hell bent to deny access, she should have said something to the doctors in advance. 

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, ForeverAlone said:

Considering that the mother and father were still married (I believe she had just left him, but had not divorced him) and it didn't sound like she had put a restraining order out on her husband, I don't see how the hospital had a legal right to deny the father information about his minor son or force him to leave the hospital when he wasn't making a scene. I thought Jo was out of line by forcing that particular issue, but I also thought the mother was completely wrong for blaming Jo for bringing the father to see his son. I mean, how the hell is Jo supposed to know that he is an abusive father or that the mother and son didn't want to see him? If the mother was that hell bent to deny access, she should have said something to the doctors in advance. 

 It is true the father still had a legal right to see his son (as far as we know on the show), the problem is Jo didn't actually ask for any proof that he was the kid's father (not that we saw, anyway).  I get vetted harder by the college registrar trying to get information on my kids' grades than people do on Grey's.

But honestly, I don't blame Jo for this because Grey Sloan's security is about as robust as Star Labs security on The Flash.  Basically random strangers can wander in and get up all in your business. 

[ForeverAlone]

Even if Jo had asked for proof that he was the kid's father, she had no way of knowing the relationship among the family, so she still would have brought him to the kid's room (because the mother didn't inform the hospital about any issues with the father). And yes, this is not a show that has ever showed any adherence to security procedures, so they aren't going to start now in season 13. 

[dmc]

5 hours ago, statsgirl said:

It was the opposite for me in this episode.  I don't like Riggs (still think he's an arrogant ass) but his projecting his guilt on to the parents didn't bother me because it didn't affect the treatment of either the patient or her parents.

On the other hand, I do like Jo but I couldn't stand what she was doing this episode because it had the potential to kill one or both of the son and his mother. Even at the end, when she gave in and permitted the father to donate his kidney, she was still interfering in their relationship by keeping the father from letting his son know that in spite of  his anger issues, he still loved his son enough to donate a kidney to him.  That manipulation had nothing to do with this family's situation  and what was good for them as a family and everything to do with Jo and her own unresolved issues.

ETA:

I thought the mother was keeping her kidney and the kid got the father's.  But even if the mother got the kidney, alive is better than not being alive, especially if you have a kid. (I say that as someone whose kid was 20 when I was diagnosed with cancer and staying around for her was my motivation through chemo and radiation.)

We know the dad have very serious problems but we don't enough enough them to know if the dad still cares about his ex wife or not.  It could be a power move to keep her alive but why bother?  If she's dead, he gets the son all to himself.

Because abusive people are like that.  It's not a power move to keep her alive.  It's a power move to keep them connected even though she wants nothing to do with him. 

Edited February 26, 2017 by dmc

[kingshearte]

On 2/24/2017 at 9:22 AM, Nobodysfan said:

Yes, true, indeed, he was judgemental over them.

I guess he should look at himself in the mirror how he went about his life after Megan´s disappearance, he sleeps with a woman who can´t stand him randomnly in a car, is all flirty with her.

I really didn´t like how he judged those parents when he himself behaves how he behaves.

It was definitely judgemental. The thing is, that judgement had nothing to do with those parents, and was actually directed squarely at himself. The anvils falling about Megan's imminent reappearance were fast and furious this episode. (Note that I'm unspoiled; just a little bruised from the afore-mentioned anvils.)

As for Jo and the kidneys, I thought that whole storyline was pretty well done. And whether or not one agrees with Jo's stance, it seemed fairly clear to me that it wasn't coming from a place of self-centredness, but that she really was trying to advocate for her unconscious-and-unable-to-advocate-for-herself patient the best she could. In the end, she did get on board with accepting the only viable kidney they had available. They really do need to get on with finishing telling her story, though.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

22 hours ago, PepSinger said:

[In response to Electricboogaloo's comment, "Minnick went from "Hey, noobs, you know how you've never done this procedure? Congrats, you're doing it by yourself today!" last week to "The correct answer is that you aren't prepared!" this week. All it took was killing a patient for her to tone down her down just a smidge]":  

PEPSINGER REPLIED:

"LMAO. I had the exact same thought!  Such whiplash!"

 

So true! And I noticed in this latest episode that there was absolutely no backlash from that boy's death.

A questionable death of a patient (especially a child!) during surgery should have at least triggered Bailey calling for a medical review, even if there is no malpractice suit filed.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Crazy Bird Lady

[tapplum]

1 hour ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

A questionable death of a patient (especially a child!) during surgery should have at least triggered Bailey calling for a medical review, even if there is no malpractice suit filed.

But that would mean, you know, Bailey doing her job, which based on the last few seasons would be completely contrary to her characterisation... They've spent *a lot* of time establishing her as incompetent (even by the standards of the show), I would genuinely be shocked if she made a halfway sensible decision.

[Muffyn]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 7:07 PM, Joana said:

Arizona and Minnick, ugh. First of all, Arizona's huge turnaround literally overnight is ridiculous. Like someone said, it feels like we've missed a couple of episodes dealing with the development of their relationship. And to me, they are even worse than Callie and Penny. At least Penny was a decent human being, for what it's worth. So far there's nothing that has convinced me that Minnick is not the smug asshole she was when she first showed up. 

Their relationship to date:

1.  Minnick:  I think you're great and I am totes attracted to you.

     Arizona:  Um, OK, so it feels like you pushed my good friend out of his job and have not shown respect for his experience or background, I don't trust your methods or your reasoning, and I find the way your talking to me kind of creepy. 

2.  Minnick nicks an artery on a patient as a horrific action teaching opportunity. Arizona is part of the group of doctors who wants Minnick out because she is abrasive and her methods do not seem to be well thought through.  Also, childish loyalty to Richard, let's all get together and pout rather than address this work issue like a work issue and not a school yard tussle. 

3.  Minnick:  I am going to have an intern do surgery on this child.

     Arizona:  Hells no.  It's a child.  You need a peds surgeon.

     Minnick:  Chill.  We got this. 

4.  Surgery, child dies, Stephanie, who has been shown as one of the best interns is struggling with what happened.  Minnick walks off without trying to help Stephanie.  Arizona finds Minnick.  Minnick cries because she's never lost a child.  Somehow this is supposed to soften our and Arizona's feelings toward her because she is distraught.  Dead kid be damned.  Minnick has the sadz.   Arizona's heart softens toward her (rather than the more realistic possibility that Arizona takes further issue with Minnick's methods and pushes to have kids be off limits). 

5.  Minnick:  My car won't start.

    Arizona:  Let me help because I am not a monster and you are horrible regularly, so I don't want to see you after you sleep in your car (TM Jo). 

6.  Minnick:  You're schmoopy.

     Arizona:  No, you're schmoopy.

     Minnick:  You're the cutest.

     Arizona:  No, you're the cutest.

It all makes perfect sense to me.  It starts with Minnick being sort of creepy in the way she expresses her attraction to Arizona, goes through a whole  series of reasons why Arizona should not want a close personal relationship with Minnick, and ends up with them kissing in the parking lot where anyone can happen upon them. 

The unfortunate thing is that no matter how illogical this formula is, it's one we've seen multiple times.  

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 11:01 PM, dr pepper said:

A few more comments:

1. When someone offers a kidney, isn't it sop to check both kidneys to make sure the donor can function with just one left?

To be fair, the mother had two good kidneys when they started.  She threw a blood clot that blocked the other kidney.  It couldn't be cleared in time to keep the kidney viable.  Dramatic, oh so Grey's, but plausible.  Of course, I would suspect they were trying to imply this was  more likely because evil dad had upset her immediately prior  to the surgery, raising her blood pressure.  I'll let that just fade away.   

Edited February 26, 2017 by Muffyn

[jschoolgirl]

The Minnick-Robbins kiss was just cringeworthy. The wide shot looked like they were touching lips and no more.

[Emily Thrace]

On 2017-02-24 at 1:26 PM, Deanie87 said:

MMV, but any episode where Jo doesn't utter the phrase "I lived in my car," is a subtle one to me LOL!  The case clearly mirrored what she has gone through (and it isn't the first one either), but I thought that it was subtle in that she saw the case from an angle that wasn't completely obvious to everyone else (the fact that it was power and control that motivating the father), and she did it without having to give an Oliver Twist monologue detailing every bad thing that ever happened to her.  In fact, she didn't refer to her own experience even once.  After the way that these writers have dealt with Jo, I find that to be subtle.  Which ain't saying much, but here we are.  

And I'm not even Jo's #1 fan by any means, but I do think that she gets held to a different standard and gets called out every single time for stuff that every single character does. And not just called out, but called a bitch, a liar, a psycho, a whiner, a drama queen, a thing....and on and on.  Which isn't to say that she isn't some of those things sometimes because she is, but it gets annoying after a while. 

I think the issue with Jo is two fold. For one the actress has never really pulled off the character and made her believable. For another what characterization Jo does have is paper thin and changes with Shonda's mood. Both problems are interconnected and I think ultimately the actress was just miscast (She comes across as a lovely sweet middle class girl who naturally has no  fucking clue how to play a street kid) but personally I hope she hooks up with DeLuca just so she can have less screen time. I also think a lot of the hate comes from the fact that Alex is a very popular character and many of us don't feel Jo is good enough for him.   

[Chas411]

To be honest up until people had the husband lie to cling to I'd have argued that it was the other way around and that she was too good for him.

Aside from some media sites and maybe this place where it's very focal I don't see the character as that hated. If we go by Twitter I've noticed that there's buckets of hate for whoever gets the most screentime in the episode. To any of my girlfriends who are casual viewers and wouldn't be caught up on the internet followings they quite like her and have found the ex husband storyline exciting. 

Edited February 27, 2017 by Chas411

[Rose-1]

15 minutes ago, Chas411 said:

To be honest up until people had the husband lie to cling to I'd have argued that it was the other way around and that she was too good for him.

Aside from some media sites and maybe this place where it's very focal I don't see the character as that hated. If we go by Twitter I've noticed that there's buckets of hate for whoever gets the most screentime in the episode. To any of my girlfriends who are casual viewers and wouldn't be caught up on the internet followings they quite like her and have found the ex husband storyline exciting. 

Facebook is the worst, it's like an endless stream of hate towards her even under videos that don't even feature her. It's actually extremely boring to do a scroll of the comments and usually find one of the tops ones suggesting her husband come back and kill her. I am also at a complete loss as to why her character is held to a completely different standard than every single other character on this show. Maggie decks a patient in the face and she's a hero, whilst Jo advocates for her patient (whether or not you agree with her position on it) and she's a demon. The double standards are extremely tiresome. But it's not as bad as some sites  make it seem, she still has a lot of support on YouTub, twitter and fan forum, people just get tired of defending her against arguements as reasoned as 'SHES A BITCH!!!1' 

and I agree, Alex is my favourite character and I spent seasons 11 and 12 extremely pissed off at him. She was the best girlfriend he's ever had, supported him more than any of his other partners.. I just don't think it's as black and white that as soon as it's revealed she has a violent husband she's trying to run away from, it automatically negates every positive thing she's done or brought to their relationship. Which is a lot

[Deanie87]

I'm quite sure that many are tired of my epic poem "You Guys, Jo Really Isn't That Bad" told in 50 parts and counting, so I moved it to the Jo thread.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Deanie87

[jaync]

Quote

Leave her alone now. Let's assume that she finds her work fulfilling and that she has an occasional fling offstage that has nothing to do with the hospital.

Why? None of the other characters' flings/relationships happen off-camera.

Edited February 27, 2017 by jaync

[proserpina65]

On ‎02‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 2:11 PM, Deanie87 said:

I agree with this, but at that point, it wasn't 100% certain that there wasn't another option.  Its not like Jo said, "I WOULD RATHER THE KID DIE ON THE TABLE THAN TAKE A KIDNEY FROM THAT MONSTER!!!"  She wanted to consult with the mother at the very least or exhaust other options.  When she wasn't able to do that, she took the kidney.  And, as a survivor of domestic violence, she realized that as much as the father most likely wanted to save his son, he also was looking for any means to exert power and control over his family.  And while obviously saving both patients' lives was the primary goal, doing that in a way that wasn't going to make the rest of their lives a living hell was important to her as well.  Boy, what a bitch!

Also, have I been watching a completely different show all of these years?  Is this the first time that a doctor has made a patient storyline all about them (and I don't even think that Jo did that)?  Isn't that what literally every single doctor does on nearly every single case in nearly every single episode?  Are these NOT the most self-centered people on the face of the earth?  Just Jo?  Okay.

Actually it was pretty certain at that point that there wasn't another option.  They'd already been on the phone with UNOS and hadn't had any luck finding another kidney which could be there quickly enough.  Her resistance, especially after they knew they weren't going to be able to get another kidney, really goes against the whole "first do no harm" thing.

Quote

but I thought that it was subtle in that she saw the case from an angle that wasn't completely obvious to everyone else (the fact that it was power and control that motivating the father),

Except that we don't know what the father's motivation really was, just what Jo assumed it was.

Edited February 27, 2017 by proserpina65

[OtterMommy]

10 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

I think the issue with Jo is two fold. For one the actress has never really pulled off the character and made her believable. For another what characterization Jo does have is paper thin and changes with Shonda's mood. Both problems are interconnected and I think ultimately the actress was just miscast (She comes across as a lovely sweet middle class girl who naturally has no  fucking clue how to play a street kid) but personally I hope she hooks up with DeLuca just so she can have less screen time. I also think a lot of the hate comes from the fact that Alex is a very popular character and many of us don't feel Jo is good enough for him.   

My problem with Jo--even though it really isn't her fault--is that her character is just TOO much.  She's a homeless kid who lived in her car and worked her way through medical school and then changed her name and ran away from an abusive husband.  It's too much.  If it were just one, or maybe even two, of those things, I could buy it.  It also doesn't make any sense--as discussed on another thread.  How could she even be hired by SGMWGSMH if she wasn't using her real name.  If she legally changed her name, it would be a matter of public record.  When exactly did she get her medical degree in relation to when she was married?  None of it adds up.

As for the actress...I agree that she doesn't quite sell the tough street kid, but I've seen worse so that doesn't really bug me.  I think--and this episode is a perfect example of this--is that she's a bit too scripted.  In other words, I think Luddington is a better actress than she is allowed to be on this show.  She's just so bogged down with the script that her acting is limited.  

[jaync]

Quote

If she legally changed her name, it would be a matter of public record.

I did a quick search out of curiosity, and it seems one can request that their legal name change be sealed from the public, if there's a need for their identity to be protected. However, if that's the case with Jo, it doesn't make sense why she feared having to use her former name when testifying in court.