S01.E01: Somebody's Dead

[ElectricBoogaloo]

23 hours ago, Eyes High said:

One thing that confused me is why Jane's child would be attending the same school as Madeline's and Celeste's in the first place. Madeline talked about the school being "private school at a public school price," but surely all these wealthy mothers would have their kids enrolled in private school, right?

I have lived in three of the major areas of California (Bay Area, Los Angeles/Orange County, and San Diego) and there is always at least one neighborhood that's so affluent that many of the kids attend public school. As Madeline said, they are getting a private school education at a public school (translation: why spend an additional $20K+ per kid each year if you don't have to?). Depending on the way the school district/city boundaries are set up, sometimes there's a really nice elementary school for a particular neighborhood and eventually it feeds into a less than stellar middle school or high school so the kids don't start private school until later. In other neighborhoods, the entire school district is nice enough that the kids attend public school all the way from pre-K through high school.

[Atlanta]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I have lived in three of the major areas of California (Bay Area, Los Angeles/Orange County, and San Diego) and there is always at least one neighborhood that's so affluent that many of the kids attend public school. As Madeline said, they are getting a private school education at a public school (translation: why spend an additional $20K+ per kid each year if you don't have to?). Depending on the way the school district/city boundaries are set up, sometimes there's a really nice elementary school for a particular neighborhood and eventually it feeds into a less than stellar middle school or high school so the kids don't start private school until later. In other neighborhoods, the entire school district is nice enough that the kids attend public school all the way from pre-K through high school.

A good friend of mine taught in one of those in Orange County, a middle school. She's no longer there, but says she was treated like 'the help.' She's got some stories.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

12 hours ago, Atlanta said:

A good friend of mine taught in one of those in Orange County, a middle school. She's no longer there, but says she was treated like 'the help.' She's got some stories.

I think it definitely depends, but I can see that. There are some perks to working in schools like that. I remember I was on some other forum and there was a thread about what kind of gifts to buy for teachers and there some women talking about how they always by their kids' elementary school teachers Coach purses. I was like man, my teachers were lucky if my mom remembered to write them a thank you card at the end of the year! I don't know if that would make up for having to deal with parents like Renata year after year though.

[Armchair Critic]

On 2/20/2017 at 8:24 PM, Lemons said:

I didn't read the book and am hoping the little boy is innocent

I didn't read the book either, my guess is that one of Nicole Kidman's sons did it.

[lovinbob]

On 2/20/2017 at 10:05 AM, Eyes High said:

I was watching this episode with my husband, who was like "Why is Reese Witherspoon's character married to someone 20 years younger?" When I told him that Adam Scott is in fact older than Reese Witherspoon, he couldn't believe it. 

For me it's Nicole Kidman who looks too old for Alexander Skarsgård. (Who is, by the way, super hot! I have not seen him before. Wow.) Reese always seems young to me -- amazing to me that she has a 17 year old child! Laura Dern is perfectly cast, to me. Renata seems like a "type" who would have said she didn't want kids and wanted to focus on her career, and then decided "late" to have a child. Her husband seems like an afterthought, which fits the bill. Dern is 50, and I know plenty of 50-year-old first grade moms (NYC private school veteran, here). 

I should add ... I know Nicole Kidman is younger than Laura Dern (by a year) but IMO she looks older, and the Celeste character doesn't seem like she is supposed to be older, while Renata does. IMO.

Edited February 25, 2017 by lovinbob

[archer1267]

Quote

Laura Dern is perfectly cast, to me. Renata seems like a "type" who would have said she didn't want kids and wanted to focus on her career, and then decided "late" to have a child.

Exactly...I was about to post the same thing. I didn't read the book so I don't know how "true" the actresses are to their characters and their respective ages, but I live in a Boston suburb which - at least at one time - was notable for the number of first-time mothers over the age of 40. Dern's age wasn't a big distraction to me and her reference to the PayPal board signaled that this was a woman who'd put career first for some time.

Of course I still see Reese Witherspoon as Elle Woods and I think "no way could she have a teenager!" but in real life, she has a daughter that age.

Quote

surely all these wealthy mothers would have their kids enrolled in private school, right?

Not necessarily. My town borders two towns in the Top 10 list for public high schools in Massachusetts. The average single-family home price in each town is roughly $900K. Affluence and a strong public school system usually go hand-in-hand. (Not humble bragging here...I am happy to live next door in a more modest town where I don't have to keep up with the neighbors!)

Edited February 26, 2017 by archer1267

[Rowan]

I'm on the Ziggy is a product of sexual assault train. 

I'm all in on this show. The only performance that left me wanting was Kidman's. 

[DarkRaichu]

On 2/20/2017 at 6:27 PM, riverheightsnancy said:

Big issue that I have, teachers would never have the entire group of kids and parents present and ask the harmed child to point out who hurt her. This would be done in the privacy of the principal's office with the nurse or police. She had a visible bruise on her neck. This is not one kid taking another kid's pencil. This is much more serious and child protective services might be called as well and the district Child Psychologist, if the child who choked another was determined to have some type of issue, he/she would be removed from school at that point. This was not realistic at all with what would happen today at decent schools. Since this school was deemed to be as a good as a private school, I would expect even higher standards. The Principal would absolutely be involved.  Really liking Reese in this. I have never read the book and I know nothing about it, but I think that the twist will be that the dead person is male, but I could be wrong as I often am on these types of things  ;).

This. If I was 1 of the parents in that impromptu after school gathering, I would have complained to the principal about the whole ordeal.  The teacher needed to know something that serious should have been handled privately for many reasons. 

[DarkRaichu]

On 2/26/2017 at 11:04 AM, archer1267 said:

Not necessarily. My town borders two towns in the Top 10 list for public high schools in Massachusetts. The average single-family home price in each town is roughly $900K. Affluence and a strong public school system usually go hand-in-hand. 

This is true in the middle of US too

[BrittaBot]

Quote

In Nicole Kidman's first appearance, I thought, "at least they let her keep her Australian accent." But then later, she seemed to be putting on an American one? I can't tell for sure.  

My husband and I recently watched The Family Fang with Kidman and her "American" accent was REALLY distracting in that too.  At times it feels like she throws a bit of Australian in there, which I could probably forgive - god knows I can't do an accent to save my life and of course you are going to slip sometimes, but then other times, it's like this weird American accent where she's just doing her best impression of what she thinks an American sounds like and failing miserably. Hard to describe. I'm not even that picky about accents. I'm not expecting, like, Hugh Laurie levels here, but better than this. At least Emma Watson in Perks of Being a Wallflower. 

The odd part is I don't remember Nicole Kidman being this horrible at an American accent in some of her older movies. Hell, she was in Cold Mountain and that is my favorite movie, and I don't remember at ALL having an issue with her (southern!) accent. Maybe it's easier for her to do a more "accenty" American-accent than one that is plain? In any case, it's distracting. I don't love her in this role either. Celeste is supposed to be a bit withdrawn and "off," but... Maybe it's so shortly after seeing Family Fang, but not super into her as an actress lately. I actually had the thought that I wish Reese Witherspoon had been cast in her role in Family Fang! I am loving Reese though. I hope she gets an Emmy or at least an Emmy nod for this.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When I was watching the credits at the end of the episode, I saw that someone is listed as Nicole Kidman's dialect coach so someone is getting paid to help her with...something. I don't know how well it's working since I thought she was Australian in this episode (which, honestly, would have been fine with me).

[MV713]

I rewatched this episode after watching episode 2 because I felt like I missed a lot of little things.

And I was right. I even think I know who died now...and I have no spoiler influence.

So if you rewatch and pay close attention to every thing, you will be amazed at what may have slipped you the first time!

[dbklmt]

On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 3:51 PM, mochamajesty said:

And is Ziggy portrayed by the same kid who played MJ Delfino? 

No, he's played by Iain Armitage who is the son of actor Euan Morton and his wife, theatre producer Lee Armitage. 

Here's his story...https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/style/big-little-lies-hbo-iain-armitage-theater-critic.html?_r=1

It was just released that he's in negotiations to play a young Sheldon Cooper in a projected Big Bang Theory spinoff.

http://tvline.com/2017/03/02/big-bang-theory-spinoff-young-sheldon-iain-armitage-cast/#more-801184

[Giesela]

More nepotism in Hollywood, I hate it.  Do actors kids ever do anything else but become actors?  I have to say that makes it sound like something you can learn fairly easy.  Which I don't think is totally true.  So that just means that the talent gets diluted and the bar lowered.  And no I'm not saying this particular kid, I'm speaking generally.  For example now that hockey hasn't panned out for Goldie Hawns kid he is going to act.  I thought the son in Manchester by the Sea was pretty bad.  Actors kid, who actually got nominated despite the worst crying scene Ive ever heard.  

but this is off topic

[justmythoughts]

On 20/02/2017 at 0:55 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I read the book a few years ago and I will watch just about anything that's set in a beach town because I miss living in San Diego, so I was looking forward to this show starting. All the gorgeous shots of the ocean from their various decks/backyards would have made the whole episode worthwhile for me.

The biggest reaction I had to this episode was that I am SO glad I don't have kids because dealing with the politics with other parents would be enough to make me want to home school my kids (and of course, then I'd be like, "GET OUT OF THE HOUSE, KIDS! I NEED SOME QUIET!").

It's been a while since I read this book so off the top of my head, I couldn't even remember any of the characters' names before the episode started. Some of the plot started to come back to me pretty quickly though so things felt familiar (but still new since the people who were cast look nothing like the way I pictured the characters in my head). I don't remember all of the dirty little secrets, so it will be fun to rediscover the book through the show.

The Greek chorus doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I like that they provide additional points of view about the main characters. I can see how some of the characters can come off as unlikable because we aren't getting their inner monologues so we don't understand them quite as well (at least not yet), but I think the pilot did a decent job showing us some of the emotional issues that Madeline, Jane, Celeste, and Renata have so that we can understand them a little better.

I'm used to Maddie being a brat on Nashville, but Abigail is up there too. What a pill. At least Chloe is still a positive kid to be around. Poor Madeline. It's bad enough to have to see your ex and his new younger wife around town all the time, but to have their kids in the same first grade class? Despite Bonnie spouting hippie whatever after yoga, at least she had the balls to tell Madeline she had signed that petition before she knew Madeline was involved. Nathan, the little shit, clearly would have been fine never telling Madeline. Hiding behind his kid and snickering when he saw Bonnie was about to tell Madeline sealed the deal: the principal was right about Nathan being a dick!

Even though I'm not divorced with kids, I can understand why Madeline is so resentful - her husband divorced her and married a younger woman, leaving Madeline to be the disciplinarian while he gets to be the fun parent. And on top of all that, Abigail LIKES Bonnie so she isn't just losing Abigail to being a snarky pain in the ass teenager who doesn't want to be around her mom. Now she's also losing her daughter to her ex's cool new wife. That must be so frustrating and painful.

Laura Dern is making Renata as annoying as I remember her being in the book. The way she refers to her daughter as "my Amabella" makes my eyes roll. One thing I appreciate about Madeline is how quickly she became loyal to Jane. She just met her that day and she was already defending her from Renata's obnoxious assumption that Jane was a nanny.

Hey there fellow Nashville (and maybe other shows)  viewer!

I've just convinced my husband today to watch this show. I also read the book years ago, but parts of the plot came to my mind during the show. I haven't told my husband (I can barely remember all the books I read, let alone he!), because he hates when I know future plots and he doesn't.

Loved the scenery. Liked the episode. It servrd very well the plot in general.

Abigail reminded me so much of Maddie from Nashville (whom I loatheeee) that it was hard to watch her. 

Looking forward to seeing how loyal to the book this show is going to be!

Edited March 4, 2017 by justmythoughts

[Atlanta]

I'm a little glad for the Greek chorus. It goes along with the book. I understand why they included it.

[stillshimpy]

I really enjoyed this and was so intrigued by the performances.  

On 2/22/2017 at 10:05 AM, stanleyk said:

That is exactly my point, though. I don't think (though obviously I could be wrong) that most people watch a movie like Moonlight and say, well, I just can't relate to these characters because I don't live in the Florida projects. They relate to the baseline humanity of the experience and to the emotions of the people, even if it might look very different from their lives. My point was that perhaps people are more open to recognizing those aspects of relatability when the characters are not privileged (or perhaps just more obviously sympathetic) and less open when it comes to settings like BLL, where the characters are very privileged, in multiple ways.

 

 

 

I think that makes sense, though.  I think there needs to be a point of empathy, a defining aspect to a character's struggle that an audience finds compelling in a way that feels like an invitation.  Our compassion tends to be stirred first by elements of pain we can recognize, that commonality, that thing that unites people from different backgrounds and allows people emotional access to characters or situations.   Since most of us can relate to fear for our children, or being held back by our circumstances at some level, something like Moonlight contains that emotionally uniting experience.  The struggle to find joy and safety in an often hostile world.  We can relate to the barriers people face but it's more difficult to relate to people who have what appear from the outside, to be self-created barriers to happiness.  

So stories about people who have so few reasons to feel preyed on, or pursued by, the difficulties of survival that define existence for a lot of people, can be a tough sell.  I'm assuming that's the point of Shailene Woodley's character, she represents the real-world access to the rarefied world of privilege.  Luckily, the actors in this are all of a high enough caliber to render their struggles interesting, even if watching this has that giant stumbling block: Gee, your life looks like Disneyland compared to the reality of the vast crushing majority of the world.  All of the actors here have that ability, I think,  to provide an emotional bridge to their reality, even if the details of their lives are primarily foreign.  

It seems like the series really understands that struggle.  There's a really quiet moment that I thought was perfectly played for gentle comedy and a completely relatable moment for most people in long-term relationships:   When Renata's husband walks out onto a deck that wouldn't look out-of-place at a luxury resort and she's there, having a brood and drinking wine.  He asks her if she's okay and the way she waves him off, there's a moment where he recognizes the "Oh shit, I know where this is heading..." of it all and tries to flee before she launches into the least compelling emotional struggle of all time but Dern just commits to it fully.  The struggle of wanting your friends to approve of your success and then finding it distancing when you become too successful.  

I thought that moment combined with her, "I joined the board of Paypal...like I need another commitment?" statement that anyone with ears would find off-putting.   So she advertises this very rarefied accomplishment in a way that tries to dismiss the success and at first it just looks like a humble-brag-fail.  Then the later scene allows access to why she would do that.  That she has a deep insecurity about being accepted and liked, plus, it's so familiar to her husband he tried to get the fuck out of Dodge the second he heard the verbal cues of where it was headed.  

I thought Dern did the best work with relatively tiny amounts but everyone seemed to be trying to add that access to pain.   People only ever live their own realities, so whereas they are apparently never questioning if they will still be safe a year from then, their difficulties define their existence as much, as if not more, than their blessings which is actually kind of a universal experience.  

I did have to laugh at Alexander Skarsgard playing a jerk.  I get it, I do, the actor has no interest in being viewed solely as beefcake and who can blame him?  He's so good-looking that about the only way to have his looks not define his character is by playing a series of monsters.   It did make me laugh that in a show that really relies on people swiftly moving past the "Okay, so they have lives of great financial security but I'm open to exploring their emotional pain....even if a big part of me thinks they should just get a really good therapist because they can sure as shit afford it..."  there's Skarsgard with his career long struggle against being viewed solely as pretty.  

Edited March 4, 2017 by stillshimpy

[Clanstarling]

On 2/19/2017 at 10:42 PM, PerPlexied said:

I can suspend disbelief for most things-- but am I seriously supposed to go along with Reese Witherspoon's character needing a ride and abandoning her car for rolling her ankle?! That's some real sketchy writing. 

Well, driving a car with a twisted/sprained ankle and no brace is a dicey proposition - it's neither easy nor safe. Speaking as one who has attempted it a time or two.

I tend to have a knee-jerk "not interested" when it comes to books, tv, and movies about rich people. And when you combine mommy-wars with rich people, I gave it a hard pass at first. But given the reviews, and the fact that I love all of the main cast (well, not so much Shailene, but I don't know her work particularly well), I tried it out today and loved it.

I can't relate to the lifestyle, and even when I was part of the mommy contingent (both on the at home and working sides at different times), I didn't relate to the mommy wars. Observed them, but didn't engage with them. But the emotional moments and fine acting grabbed me, so I'm onboard.

[Mabinogia]

I relate to these characters despite my not being a mother, not being rich, married, or a big business woman. I relate to them as people trapped in lives they may or may not have truly wanted. I relate to them as screwed up people doing what they can to get through life. These screwed up people just happen to be rich mommies.

I feel like the actors are what make them relatable to me, which might be why Jane is the least relatable to me. I'm just not a fan of Shailene Woodley's acting so I'm not really connecting to her. I'm liking Madeline more than I thought I would, since Reese Witherspoon is not my favorite actress, I think she can be a bit one note, but this is the perfect character for her.

[Giesela]

7 hours ago, stillshimpy said:

it..."  there's Skarsgard with his career long struggle against being viewed solely as pretty.  

Funny observation!  He could just gain some weight and get a bad haircut though.  

I just want to say he has never seemed that good looking to me.  Oh yea sure, when he is sitting still with makeup and longish hair he looks great.  Some of those True Blood and Tarzan stills.   But  when he is moving around and talking etc. the double bags under his eyes just bother me too much to think gorgeous.  And then from various angles you notice his rabbity looking overbite.  Not saying he isn't pretty but....not that much.  

[guilfoyleatpp]

I'm in on this. 

I was struck by two things about the locale

1) My family is from Monterey county. I've been there a lot. I wasn't aware that it was so sunny and lovely all the time. The Monterey shown there reminded me of North San Diego county (where I've also lived). Most of the nicer homes I've seen in Monterey are Victorians.  But sure, ok. I'm sure there are a number of newer, super nice homes along the coast and that a lot of days are lovely. 

2) The other mommies at school terrify me. Terrify. I worry about these scenarios when a queen bee or queen bee's child has it out for your kid. I try to avoid them. 

Otherwise, I've totally known women (in Santa Cruz, no less) who are a lot like Celeste. Beautiful, quiet, cool, former successful something-that-requires-an-advanced-degree. I was a little surprised at the lack of diversity amongst the children. They only showed Bonnie's child and an asian child. 

[mochamajesty]

7 hours ago, Giesela said:

Funny observation!  He could just gain some weight and get a bad haircut though.  

I just want to say he has never seemed that good looking to me.  Oh yea sure, when he is sitting still with makeup and longish hair he looks great.  Some of those True Blood and Tarzan stills.   But  when he is moving around and talking etc. the double bags under his eyes just bother me too much to think gorgeous.  And then from various angles you notice his rabbity looking overbite.  Not saying he isn't pretty but....not that much.  

 

As someone with an overbite - thanks.

3 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I'm surprised I'm the only one who sees Niles Crane.

If you are referring to AS, then yes you are.

[Giesela]

Hey, I have an overbite too, or more accurately an undeveloped lower jaw which would require jaw cracking surgery to fix,  nothing personal.   With his short haircut I can see the Niles Crane thing.  I bet more people would see it if he were playing a similar part. 

Edited March 5, 2017 by Giesela

[ChelleGame]

On 2/19/2017 at 9:21 PM, CleoCaesar said:

I guess I don't get why "relating" to characters at all is a thing. Is it imagining myself as the characters? That seems pretty pointless to me personally. Is it just sympathizing with the characters? That's more understandable, but some of the best, most complex, most enjoyable characters in literature are irredeemable bastards with no morals or conscience. So I don't need to like the characters in order to enjoy the story. Maybe the issue of relating to characters (what it is and why so many people seem to need it) will have to remain a mystery to me.

This.

[KaleyFirefly]

On 2/19/2017 at 10:16 PM, CleoCaesar said:

Other forums I read are overrun with "I can't relate to this show" complaints about "Big Little Lies". I don't get it. Why do people need to "relate" to something to enjoy it? And it seems to be a common criticism of this show in particular. People seem fine with watching stuff like Game of Thrones, House of Cards, Westworld, etc. and no one says "I can't relate to this". But when it's upper class mothers and their children and all bets are off.

Love the casting most of all so far, especially Reese Witherspoon. The only reason I can guess for the change from Australia to California is they didn't want non-Aussie actors butchering the accent. It's not a great guess but it's all I have.

I'm not a mom, so I guess I can't relate to it, but I am still interested in this show. I watched the first 3 episodes, got hooked, and bought the book. I very much enjoyed the book. It was very well written and raises a number of important topics. 

I think Reese Witherspoon is very well cast but not so much Nicole Kidman. But I guess they wanted at least one Aussie actress. I also love that they cast Zoe Kravitz as Bonnie.

[KaleyFirefly]

On 2/20/2017 at 4:41 PM, Kiss my mutt said:

They need to get Kidman a better wig as usual. I'm surprised at how off her American accent is here. She usually does better. 

I thought it looked like she was wearing a wig. I wonder why?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, KaleyFirefly said:

I thought it looked like she was wearing a wig. I wonder why?

I don't know if Nicole has addressed the reason why, but some actresses prefer to wear wigs because it means less time in the hair/makeup chair (it takes a lot less time to put on a wig that has been mostly prestyled than to sit there while they style your hair), it prevents their real hair from getting damaged from the daily styling, and it allows them to do whatever they want with their real hair (as opposed to having to keep it a certain length/color for the duration of shooting a project).

[KaleyFirefly]

On 3/11/2017 at 2:27 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I don't know if Nicole has addressed the reason why, but some actresses prefer to wear wigs because it means less time in the hair/makeup chair (it takes a lot less time to put on a wig that has been mostly prestyled than to sit there while they style your hair), it prevents their real hair from getting damaged from the daily styling, and it allows them to do whatever they want with their real hair (as opposed to having to keep it a certain length/color for the duration of shooting a project).

I guess so, but the wig looks really fake. And Nicole Kidman has such beautiful natural hair! Why hide it.

[Guest]

I think the wig looks fake but also is intended to make her look younger.  It's fuller and healthier-looking than her own hair, and a prettier color.  

The level of overall fakeness seems to be rising.   I think even many of the child actors on tv now are wearing hair extensions.  

[grandemocha]

I hate annoying teens on television and holy hell is Reese's (character's) daughter annoying, disrespectful, and just downright awful. 

Good first episode, very intriguing.

[MerBearHou]

Why isn't Renata in the opening credit of the show with the other lead actresses wearing outfits from the Audrey Hepburn night?  I don't recognize the other woman who is shown (besides Reese, Nicole, Zoe and Shailene).

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

Why isn't Renata in the opening credit of the show with the other lead actresses wearing outfits from the Audrey Hepburn night?  I don't recognize the other woman who is shown (besides Reese, Nicole, Zoe and Shailene).

She is, she's just wearing a brunette wig so it's hard to recognize her.

[Snowball II]

Finally got around to watching this on HBOGo.  I read the book last year, so I was looking forward to the show but I just didn't have time to dive into it until now.

Overall, I think it's just okay.  I can't help but compare it to the book, and I like the dark comedy tone of the book better.  I think Reese Witherspoon does a great job as Madeline, and Laura Dern as Renata.  I don't much care for Nicole Kidman as Celeste; while I was reading the book, I pictured Celeste as Charlize Theron.  She is supposed to be this blonde, statuesque beauty, so Theron immediately sprang to mind.  Kidman's performance is pretty dull, but my opinion might change after I watch more episodes.  Don't know what to think of Shailene Woodley as Jane.  I didn't picture Jane as SW, but she isn't bad.  I'll just have to get used to it.

I wish they had kept the original setting from the book, but the change to California doesn't bother me too much.  When I saw Zoe Kravitz, I thought it was her mother- man, they look alike.  Perfect casting for that character.

Not sure what to think of the guys.  The Greek Chorus made me laugh.

[methodwriter85]

On 2/20/2017 at 4:55 PM, chocolatine said:

I thought the same thing about Laura Dern and Reese Witherspoon. I think Renata is supposed to be older than Madeline, since Madeline made that jab "[Jane]'s young. You know, like you used to be." But Laura Dern and Nicole Kidman are the same age IRL.

Nicole Kidman's character is also referred to as being older. Nowadays IVF is allowing women in their late 40's to early 50's to have kids. I figured they're both playing roughly their actual age, and they used IVF/surrogates to have their kids in their early/mid-40's.

I think Madeline is supposed to be somewhere around 38-40. She's referred to having had her 16-year old daughter at a young age, probably in her early 20's or just out of high school. (James Tupper is about the same age as Nicole Kidman but I'm guessing he's also supposed to be late 30's/very early 40's here like Madeline.) I think Renata's response to Madeline's age jab was to remind her of the fact that she's either pushing 40 or has just hit it.

Renata and Celeste did remind me of my sister's experience at her kid's "good" elementary school. There were a lot of older parents.

[chocolatine]

17 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I think Madeline is supposed to be somewhere around 38-40.

She turned 40 on orientation day. That's why she, Celeste and Jane were drinking champagne in the morning while the kids were at orientation.

[noveltylibrary65]

On 2/20/2017 at 4:45 PM, RogerDodger said:

 

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Celeste's husband (forgive me as I haven't learned all of the names yet) is the victim.  He's clearly abusive towards Celeste. I also believe he is probably Ziggy's father.   Jane is clearly running from someone, and is clearly scared enough to keep a gun under her pillow.  I believe the woman Jane kept imagining running in the blue dress is herself.  I believe she either had an affair, one night stand or possible prostitute type relationship with Celeste's husband and Ziggy was the result.  Celeste's husband was probably abusive towards her the same as he is towards Celeste. She either came to Monterey for revenge, or perhaps as escape and coincidentally wound up in the same town.  Celeste's husband warned Celeste to keep the twins away from Ziggy only after hearing his name (which is not that common). I'm sure he doesn't want Jane and Celeste putting two and two together.  If one assumes Ziggy did hurt Renata's daughter, it could be presumed that he gets the tendancies from his father.  (I did love that little Ziggy was wearing a Junior wife beater when he startled Jane in bed.)  My guess is that Celeste, Jane, and Madeline (because she just seems like she would have to be involved) all team up to exact revenge on him once all of the relationships come to light, probably with each providing alibis for the other two so that the murder cannot be pinned on any one of them.    

 I know people can have kids at wildly varying ages, but Dern definitely seems much more, ahem, mature than Witherspoon, Kidman, etc.  I have no idea any of these actresses age IRL and am too lazy to look it up, but it seems odd.     

Interesting because I think of NK as being the odd man out agewise.  I can see LD as a RW's contemporary much more easily.

[kdm07]

I just started watching this and I'm intrigued so far. I don't know if it's just me or not but Reese Witherspoon's character had me cracking up for most of the episode (pretty sure it was unintentional too).

Edited September 19, 2017 by kdm07

[Paloma]

On 2/22/2017 at 8:28 AM, stanleyk said:

To me part of the point of some forms of art (or, if that's too high-falutin', media that wants to be art) is to challenge you to find the humanity in - and empathize with - someone who is not like you. It seems to me a form of tribalism to immediately reject the view of another person's life as "unrelatable," and, thus, unworthy of interest or an effort to find the common humanity. If we all just watch movies or tv shows that show people exactly like we are, we're back in our own personal echo chambers, which only encourages unhelpful division (and demonization of the Other).

Good point. Originally I was not interested in watching this series because I figured it was another Dallas-style soap opera about wealthy people who have everything and probably don't appreciate it or care about those less fortunate. (I never actually watched Dallas but had that impression of the type of show it was.) But I needed to kill time on an 8-hour flight and the first three episodes of BLL were available, so I gave it a try. I was surprised to find that after a couple of episodes I could relate to these women whose lives are so different from mine, because I came to understand what motivated their behavior--especially Madeline. In particular, marital and mothering issues are universal.

My only problem now is that I don't have HBO so won't be able to watch past episode 3 unless it comes out on Netflix. But I may want to read the book if I can't watch the rest of the show.

[memememe76]

I watched the first 3 episodes on a flight too, maybe in the same plane?;) I don't have HBO either, so I borrowed the dvds at my public library.

[Paloma]

On 10/15/2017 at 0:09 AM, memememe76 said:

I watched the first 3 episodes on a flight too, maybe in the same plane?;) I don't have HBO either, so I borrowed the dvds at my public library.

I just found that the DVDs are available on Netflix and put them on my list. Got the first one (includes the first two episodes) yesterday and asked my husband if he wanted to watch with me--wasn't sure he would like this sort of thing, but he was hooked also and we watched both episodes last night. Even though I had already seen the first two episodes, it was just as interesting on rewatch and I caught a few little things that I didn't get on the plane--either because of sound quality or because it's easy to miss some things because there is so much packed in the main plot and blink-and-you-miss-them flashbacks. I'm really looking forward to seeing the rest of the season on DVD soon.

[aradia22]

I found the opening disorienting in a bad way. Like it was trying to be cinematic and it just seemed so strained and obvious. Also, everyone was mumbling. The rest of the episode was also disorienting. Like how most of the houses looked the same so I had no sense of place. I feel like the editing was just bad. Like there were too many strange cuts so it was unclear what was happening. The clips cut together were too quick, so you couldn't settle and they would jump from one thing to a completely unrelated thing. Even in simple scenes, you would see someone walk to a door at one camera angle and then there would be an unnecessary cut to the opposite camera angle. WHY!?!

I don't know how I feel about being forced to ally with Madeline (Reese Witherspoon) at the start. She's not a character whose POV I would normally want to follow, the busybody who resents the working moms. Honestly, I kind of hated her and that feeling only grew throughout the episode.

I do think starting with Madeline gave a nice contrast when we met Celeste and Perry. It felt like okay, here's a break. Here are people who are chill in a good marriage that's comfortable but still fun and sexy. (I know enough about the show to know that was an illusion but it was a good set up nonetheless.) 

I disliked everything attempting to be cinematic or artistic in this episode. The shots of the waves. Weird camera angles. Everyone staring through windows. The cop playing with her lighter. It all felt forced and cheap-looking. Like it wasn't clever or effective and it was the cheap TV version of what you would see in a good movie. 

I was worried about the main actors being too recognizable to me but the bigger issue was that so was everyone else. I even recognized most of the actors they cast as the other parents. So there was no question of falling into the illusion of the show and the characters. I was just watching everyone playacting.

Iain Armitage is VERY cute as Ziggy. He was a surprisingly natural actor in a way that he's usually not in more precocious roles/personas like Young Sheldon or his theater reviews.

Renata seems like a good mom. Sure, she's a little arrogant about her Paypal board position and Hamilton tickets and she mistakenly thought Jane was a nanny. But she didn't seem malicious at first and she sweetly cuddled her daughter. She seemed to care about Amabella and not just be disproportionately outraged. Working from what she knew (Amabella accusing Ziggy), I feel like she reacted appropriately.

I'm sympathetic about Ziggy being falsely accused but it was offputting that Madeline and Jane kept downplaying what happened to Amabella. Even Celeste when she told Perry. Choking a child hard enough to leave a mark is more than casual playground roughhousing like knocking someone over.

I don't think Perry was that sinister in this first episode but there was already something weird about how he would keep creeping up on Celeste and pretending to shoot the boys and reading them Edward Gorey. The show was definitely laying the groundwork that something was off. They overplayed it a little at the end when he was warning Celeste about someone whose apparent sweetness hides a violent character. 

Perry grabbing Celeste read very oddly to me. The way he rushed up felt like it would have been out of True Blood if you just sped it up a touch more. Again, the playacting problem.

[Aqua]

On 2/20/2017 at 10:05 AM, Eyes High said:

Do moms nowadays really let their teen daughters talk to them the way Abigail was talking to Madeline in this episode? Is that a thing? Because if I had tried that shit with my mother not so many years ago, I don't think I would have lived to regret it.

I was watching this episode with my husband, who was like "Why is Reese Witherspoon's character married to someone 20 years younger?" When I told him that Adam Scott is in fact older than Reese Witherspoon, he couldn't believe it. 

I was pleased to see that a Quebecois director is directing all seven episodes. Canadians represent!...Although I wasn't loving the camerawork in certain shots, so there is that.

Even more so, the six-year-old Chloe talking to her mother that way. She seemed like a budding sociopath to me.

[Aqua]

On 2/20/2017 at 12:55 PM, chocolatine said:

Second husband. Abigail (the teenager) is Madeline and Nathan's daughter, Chloe (the first-grader) is Madeline and Ed's daughter, and Skye (also a first-grader) is Nathan and Bonnie's daughter.

Who is Ed? I thought Nathan was the father of Chloe as well (i.e., they got back together for a fling long after they divorced). Because Chloe is identified as Bonnie's daughter's half-sister.

[wanderingstar]

Just started watching this after finishing the book. Chloe is a delight.