S07.E09: Rock in the Road

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

I think the real reason Negan took Eugene is he got wind of this part of Eugene's resume and he had an opening for the position of offical "watcher" at his harem.  It's Eugene's dream job and a great career move for him.

Daryl, where's that mop and bucket!?

[maystone]

18 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I find Ezekial's act perplexing to the point of being a detriment to the show.  My main reason is that I can't figure out what the benefit is of presenting himself to outsiders like he's out of his mind.  And its definitely a mask he puts on primarily for outsiders.  The 'knights' let their act drop when they recognized Jesus. It seemed like Jesus might be more used to interacting with the Kingdom normally and he had to keep remembering to play the part that Ezekiel wanted.

Is it a test?  Is he trying to find out if outsiders will fit in with their make believe world and be cheerful about it?  Do they want to separate the good people from the bad by rooting out the people who would try to take advantage of the "mentally ill"?  Convince the outsiders they weren't a threat?

Did that work with Neegan?

That's my biggest problem with Ezekiel.  I can't see anything in his act that would convince Neegan to let Ezekial maintain the fiction that Neegan isn't really in charge.  Neegan escalates.  It doesn't seem like routine deliveries would placate Neegan.  He wants more and more.  And he would want the entire community cowed.

Rick's smile at the end was basically relief that he didn't have to count on a nuttier version of Morgan.  And damn, I hadn't really thought about it before now but Morgan really fits in with the image Ezekiel is presenting of the Kingdom.

Rick is thrilled to find an army of Michonnes. 

IIRC, Ezekiel had the role of playing king kind of thrust on him by the people in the community. Here was this guy with a huge tiger and there had to be a story behind that, right? So they made one for him. Not being a complete idiot, Ezekiel went along with it and gave the people what they wanted: a fully functioning fantasy world to block out the horror outside the kingdom. You have to admit that he's been successful.

I honestly have no idea who outside of Carol knows his real origins. I'm positive that Jerry doesn't, and I'm not even sure about Richard or Benji. I think it's certain that it will all become public at some point.

As to Negan and the Kingdom, I'm going to guess that Negan's point man who deals with the Kingdom has something to do with the (so far) hands-off policy. He seems like a decent sort for a Savior; Ezekiel has always kept his word and met his tribute quota, and up until recently it's been a peaceful, businesslike exchange. That's changed since that douchey guy started coming along and picking fights with Richard. Things look like they're going to go south pretty quickly now, so maybe Negan will be making a call after all.

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, Dodginblue said:

Seeing as how Rosita put her life on the line for Eugene for weeks / months?  to keep him alive when they were doing the whole get Eugene to DC so he can save the world routine, I get where she might not feel terribly respectful towards his lying ass.   And I think Rosita can stand around feeling guilty when every other character's who gotten people killed, starting with Rick, show how remorseful they are. 

There are some valid points in your comments... You're right that maybe Rosita might not feel have felt respectful towards Eugene and was justified in insulting him the way she did. Even after that, however, Eugene did, if not save her life, at least save her well-being, because she was about to get cut up pretty badly until Eugene stepped forward - bravely in my opinion - putting his life on the line on her behalf this time.

Also maybe the difference for me is that I think Eugene went through more penance than Rosita did. When Eugene's lie was found out, he got the shit beat out of him, and he had to work his way back into the groups' good graces slowly over time, enduring instances of questioning his loyalty, bravery, and character. He admitted what he did was wrong and showed remorse for it, and we the viewers witnessed this. How many viewers bought his remorse and usefulness is another question altogether, I admit. But Rosita just seemed to get a pass even though she directly got an innocent person killed. It might be because of the timing of the episodes, but we didn't get to see Rosita admit to any wrong-doing or really verbalize regret for getting Olivia killed. Whereas Eugene had to admit his failings and his weaknesses and be judged for them, we didn't see this with Rosita. We never saw Rosita say something like "I never should've taken that shot." We don't see any members of the group questioning whether or not she's going to do something else rash or ill-advised or whether she'll follow orders. She's just a member of the group same as before despite what just recently happened. I understand that this can be argued for other characters at times as well, but those characters also often get called out by us viewers when they seem to show callous or less than remorseful behavior.

Quote

I don't know if Rosita is feeling hurt, I think she just didn't want to play nice with Sasha.  And why should she?  It's not like they were besties before the whole Abe thing.  I don't remember any real interaction between the two of them before.    So she blew her off.  Just keeping it real.  Sasha's a big girl, she can handle it.

Then Rosita has no cause to complain if Sasha treats her coolly in return. Rosita might want to consider who is going to be left for her to be close with, however, since Abraham is gone, Eugene is now gone, anyone who was good friends with Olivia might not be feeling too happy with her, and I wouldn't expect Sasha's going to want to be buddies any time soon either. As long as Rosita is fine with a limited pool of people to connect with, I guess there isn't a problem, but I think eventually she might want to connect with someone.

[magemaud]

7 hours ago, spiderpig said:

 

10 hours ago, magemaud said:

But here is the thing that is REALLY bothering me...WHERE IS JUDITH? Wasn't Gabriel her babysitter? Maybe I missed it, but when they got back and found Gabriel had left with supplies and a car, was there any mention of her whereabouts? 

Yeah - what happened to Judith?  Isn't Carl even interested?  (We know Rick tends to forget about her a lot).  FPP is her default guardian and he took off.  Last time we saw her Negan was dandling her on his knee on the front porch in Alexandria.

 

I watched the end again and noticed that Carl disappeared shortly after they got back to Alexandria and were distracted when Simon and the Saviors showed up. He wasn't in any scenes after that, so maybe he went off to locate Judith after Gabriel handed off the babysitting duties to someone else because he was on watch. 

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

I feel like the characters are becoming even more one dimensional lately. Like each one only exists for one personality trait, one job to do, etc. Or maybe I'm finally falling out of love with this show. I did enjoy the episode, but there seems to be so many instances where people do (or don't do) things uncharacteristically. For the sake of moving the plot forward? I don't know. Maybe  the cast has just become too large so they've had to simplify people.

[Dodginblue]

4 minutes ago, SpaghettiTuesdays said:

I feel like the characters are becoming even more one dimensional lately. Like each one only exists for one personality trait, one job to do, etc. Or maybe I'm finally falling out of love with this show. I did enjoy the episode, but there seems to be so many instances where people do (or don't do) things uncharacteristically. For the sake of moving the plot forward? I don't know. Maybe  the cast has just become too large so they've had to simplify people.

Maybe it's because it's written in comic book style.  Some of the lines, I feel it would be appropriate to have them appear in a bubble over the character's head.  The characters are one dimensional and the plot jerks along, frame to frame.  A lot of talking it forward and then walking to the next spot, talk some more, walk again.  With one big scene, the zombie herd kill.  Which was impressive, I guess, how they were able to find cars you can still hot wire, but I didn't really understand why they did that.  They talked about moving the cars back so Negan wouldn't know they'd been through there but wouldn't he notice the sliced up walkers lying in the median and wonder about that?   

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

26 minutes ago, SpaghettiTuesdays said:

I feel like the characters are becoming even more one dimensional lately. Like each one only exists for one personality trait, one job to do, etc. Or maybe I'm finally falling out of love with this show. I did enjoy the episode, but there seems to be so many instances where people do (or don't do) things uncharacteristically. For the sake of moving the plot forward? I don't know. Maybe  the cast has just become too large so they've had to simplify people.

Cut down on 90% of Negan's monologues and I'd be pretty much ready to fall right back in love with this show.

[AngelaHunter]

7 minutes ago, Dodginblue said:

Maybe it's because it's written in comic book style.  Some of the lines, I feel it would be appropriate to have them appear in a bubble over the character's head.

I feel that way especially about King E. As someone who never read the comics, I can imagine he'd fit perfectly there, but in a dramatic show with real people he just looks silly and self-aggrandizing, if not delusional, to me. But since he's so far over the top, I can't help but wish he'd made himself a crown with cardboard, tinfoil and paste-on jewels.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

11 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I feel that way especially about King E. As someone who never read the comics, I can imagine he'd fit perfectly there, but in a dramatic show with real people he just looks silly and self-aggrandizing, if not delusional, to me. But since he's so far over the top, I can't help but wish he'd made himself a crown with cardboard, tinfoil and paste-on jewels.

But the tiger is soooo realistic!  And the fact it survived a zombies-looking-to-eat-all-living-meat apocalypse to get where its at.  Totally buy it.

[Giselle]

47 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

But the tiger is soooo realistic!  And the fact it survived a zombies-looking-to-eat-all-living-meat apocalypse to get where its at.  Totally buy it.

Trying to be a wise guy huh! ;-)

I just find it odd that everybody else looks lean and starving but Tara has packed it on.

I would have told her to lose the weight if she wants  to come back. It's not realistic

Edited February 14, 2017 by Giselle

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

2 minutes ago, Giselle said:

Trying to be a wise guy huh! ;-)

Nyuk-nyuk.  Hey, Moe!  :-P

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

5 minutes ago, Giselle said:

I just find it odd that everybody else looks lean and starving but Tara has packed it on.

I would have told her to lose the weight if she wants  to come back. It's not realistic

To be fair, not everybody looks lean.  Just for the easily remembered off-the-top of my head, both Olivia and Eugene were both on a little fuller diets than the vast majority [of non-Saviors].

[ShadowSixx]

3 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Then Rosita has no cause to complain if Sasha treats her coolly in return. Rosita might want to consider who is going to be left for her to be close with, however, since Abraham is gone, Eugene is now gone, anyone who was good friends with Olivia might not be feeling too happy with her, and I wouldn't expect Sasha's going to want to be buddies any time soon either. As long as Rosita is fine with a limited pool of people to connect with, I guess there isn't a problem, but I think eventually she might want to connect with someone.

Who exactly is Rosita close to? She's so damn hot and cold with everyone she comes into contact with. Practically giving everyone lip. Is Rosita bipolar?? Her emotions are all over the place. Already mentioned the respectful nod to Sasha only to jab at her, she's hot and cold with Tara as well. When Tara returned Rosita acted like she cared but when Tara heard of Denise's death Rosita just stood there like she could give a damn, didn't even try to comfort her, and made some comment how backing away from the bomb isn't going to save her and did it in a bitch way, gave Rick some lip, and she was hot and cold with Spencer too, one minute she's warming up to him and the next she's all angry and in bitch mode to him. She makes no sense. She can jump into a herd of walkers or Arat can cut up the rest of her face Leatherface style. 

At least when Michonne, Rick, Shane, Carol, Morgan, Daryl, & Sasha were in angry, standoff grieving mode they were consistent. 

[Nashville]

20 hours ago, Haleth said:

Best thing was no Negan (even if we had to suffer his speechifying over the walkie

I'm beginning to suspect JDM has a minimum-one-monologue-speech-per-episode in his contract.

 

15 hours ago, MaggieG said:

So what should we call the new group? The Jets, the Sharks or the Greasers?

In my head I'm already calling them The Hoodies.

 

10 hours ago, ToniG said:

Two words: Dolphin. Smooth.

Aaaand, now I feel unclean just writing that.

As well you should.  Somehow I had managed to forget that line, until you refreshed my memory.  So thank you very fucking much.

[AngelaHunter]

4 hours ago, Nashville said:

15 hours ago, ToniG said:

Two words: Dolphin. Smooth.

Aaaand, now I feel unclean just writing that.

As well you should.  Somehow I had managed to forget that line, until you refreshed my memory.  So thank you very fucking much.

I had forgotten it too, or blocked it out. Seeing it again, and the terrifying visuals it conjures up, has traumatized me. Dolphin smooth in general is revolting enough, but dolphin smooth Abe? Jesus H...

[jackjill89]

I'm going to agree with those who think Morgan's idea to pick off Negan isn't the worst one in the world. Seriously, just ambush him next time he comes to Alexandria. Kill Simon and Dwight. I think without their leaders the other tough guys wouldn't be nearly as tough. Go top down. There seems to be a lot of people that are with the Saviors because they don't think they have a choice. I'm sure they'd turn on a dime if given the opportunity. 

If they go in for all out war, the soldiers will protect their leader no matter what. They need to get to Negan.

[Ocean Chick]

12 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

But Rosita just seemed to get a pass even though she directly got an innocent person killed. It might be because of the timing of the episodes, but we didn't get to see Rosita admit to any wrong-doing or really verbalize regret for getting Olivia killed. Whereas Eugene had to admit his failings and his weaknesses and be judged for them, we didn't see this with Rosita. We never saw Rosita say something like "I never should've taken that shot." We don't see any members of the group questioning whether or not she's going to do something else rash or ill-advised or whether she'll follow orders. She's just a member of the group same as before despite what just recently happened. I understand that this can be argued for other characters at times as well, but those characters also often get called out by us viewers when they seem to show callous or less than remorseful behavior.

I'll expect Rosita to express remorse for Olivia's death right after we get Daryl's remorse for Glenn's death.

[Boofish]

17 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Rick's smile at the end was basically relief that he didn't have to count on a nuttier version of Morgan.  And damn, I hadn't really thought about it before now but Morgan really fits in with the image Ezekiel is presenting of the Kingdom.

 

This made me laugh so hard. I personally don't have a problem with Ezekiel's act because it's not so he can take advantage of anyone. It's to bring about a calm to his community and there really is no harm in that .. 

The leaders on this show seem to fall into 3 categories

I didn't want this but people need me; I am flawed and sometimes make bad decisions but I'm always trying to protect people - Rick, Guillermo (the Vatos), Ezekiel

I am basically a coward and keep my head in the sand and encourage my people to do the same. So far everyone is safe but God forbid we actually have to defend ourselves - Gregory, Deanna

I am a psycho.  - The Governor, Negan, Gareth 

4 hours ago, jackjill89 said:

I'm going to agree with those who think Morgan's idea to pick off Negan isn't the worst one in the world. Seriously, just ambush him next time he comes to Alexandria. Kill Simon and Dwight. I think without their leaders the other tough guys wouldn't be nearly as tough. Go top down. There seems to be a lot of people that are with the Saviors because they don't think they have a choice. I'm sure they'd turn on a dime if given the opportunity. 

If they go in for all out war, the soldiers will protect their leader no matter what. They need to get to Negan.

He didn't want to kill him, he wanted to capture him. That's the flaw in his plan

Edited February 14, 2017 by Boofish

[GodsBeloved]

43 minutes ago, jackjill89 said:

I'm going to agree with those who think Morgan's idea to pick off Negan isn't the worst one in the world. Seriously, just ambush him next time he comes to Alexandria. Kill Simon and Dwight. I think without their leaders the other tough guys wouldn't be nearly as tough. Go top down. There seems to be a lot of people that are with the Saviors because they don't think they have a choice. I'm sure they'd turn on a dime if given the opportunity. 

If they go in for all out war, the soldiers will protect their leader no matter what. They need to get to Negan.

I agree. Morgan said a lot of lives would be lost on both sides. I doubt it would happened but if they go with all out war I'd like for most of CDB to bite it to give Rick and Michonne's eye rolls an Didn't I say it on GP.

[Boofish]

18 minutes ago, GodsBeloved said:

I agree. Morgan said a lot of lives would be lost on both sides. I doubt it would happened but if they go with all out war I'd like for most of CDB to bite it to give Rick and Michonne's eye rolls an Didn't I say it on GP.

But people are dying anyway. It's just that they are dying based on Negan's mood that day. Rick and Michonne aren't the only two people who want this war - they were just the first to stand up and say ENOUGH. They are not forcing anyone to fight. This is an all volunteer Army. When the Hilltop said no they left. When the Kingdom said no they left.  Anyone still standing at the end will be better off with the Saviors dead; not captured. 

[AngelaHunter]

31 minutes ago, Boofish said:

He didn't want to kill him, he wanted to capture him. That's the flaw in his plan

Well, Morgan does have that nifty jail cell he wasted so much time and resources to build. He can put Negan there and take food from the mouths of Negan's victims to feed him. (Whereupon I would hope Rick would say, "You give him one crust of bread and I'll kill you." And then do it.)He doesn't want to kill Negan because all life is precious, or it is until Morgan's noggin is Lucille's target when Negan's life would no longer be so precious.

[GodsBeloved]

12 minutes ago, Boofish said:

But people are dying anyway. It's just that they are dying based on Negan's mood that day. Rick and Michonne aren't the only two people who want this war - they were just the first to stand up and say ENOUGH. They are not forcing anyone to fight. This is an all volunteer Army. When the Hilltop said no they left. When the Kingdom said no they left.  Anyone still standing at the end will be better off with the Saviors dead; not captured. 

My problem is what I perceive to be Rick and Michonne dismissing out of hand an idea that at least merits consideration, which smacked of arrogance. When Rick decided to take out that outpost, he said this is what they were doing and if you don't like it too bad. That action lead to Glen and Abraham's deaths. Could they have died anyway? Sure but the situation they ended up in was because they declared war on that outpost. 

Am I saying they shouldn't go to war? No. I'm just saying there is nothing wrong with considering making Negan the target. 

To quote The Wire's Namond Brice, it ain't that you do shit, it's how you do it.

I will say I think the writers are doing a better job with Ezekiel than with Morgan when it comes to having an oppposing view. Ezekiel doesn't want war because he is holding on to the "peace" with Negan in the hopes of saving the lives of his people. Part of Morgan's argument was about saving "derserving" lives as well but that seems to be overshadowed.

[Boofish]

8 minutes ago, GodsBeloved said:

My problem is what I perceive to be Rick and Michonne dismissing out of hand an idea that at least merits consideration, which smacked of arrogance. When Rick decided to take out that outpost, he said this is what they were doing and if you don't like it too bad. That action lead to Glen and Abraham's deaths. Could they have died anyway? Sure but the situation they ended up in was because they declared war on that outpost. 

 

In all fairness - everyone except Ezekiel rolls their eyes when Morgan talks LMAO

IIRC Daryl suggested it, Maggie made the deal and Rick was in charge of execution. He gave everyone a chance to speak. Not one person stepped up when Morgan disagreed. We all know the people of Alexandria never had a problem before with telling Rick where to go and buzzing behind his back about what an awful person he was. They could have easily eliminated Rick and but did nothing including taking a small leap and backing up Morgan.  

Honestly the plan DID WORK. It was well executed based on what they knew and the small amount of time they had to get the Hilltop guy back alive. Gregory and Jesus had been dealing with the Saviors for months and yet they didn't even know there were several outpost and hundreds of them. Not sure how Rick was supposed to gather that type of important information in a day. Yes they could have just walked off and said "not my monkeys; not my circus" or they could have just taken what they wanted and left since Jesus had already spilled the beans that his people were basically defenseless.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Boofish

[GodsBeloved]

14 minutes ago, Boofish said:

In all fairness - everyone except Ezekiel rolls their eyes when Morgan talks LMAO

Ok. You won that one ? 

[piequinn35]

On 2/12/2017 at 7:17 PM, cherrybomb said:

That mass kill with the wires was awesome.

It was like in the ghost ship but not walkers though.

[Raven1707]

The Sunday Cable Ratings are in for "Rock in the Road":

“The Walking Dead” got some good ratings news with its return Sunday. The show posted a 5.7 rating in adults 18-49 and just under 12 million viewers [11.996 million], both improvements on the last episode before its hiatus.

The fall finale drew a 5.1 and 10.58 million viewers; Sunday’s episode was up 12 percent in the 18-49 demographic and 13 percent in viewers. In Seasons 3 through 6, the post-break episode on average was about 12.5 percent higher than the one before the break (Season 6’s second-half premiere was down slightly from the fall finale, Season 5’s was up 5 percent, Season 4’s spiked 34 percent and Season 3’s improved 13 percent).

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/sunday-cable-ratings-feb-12-2017/

And here are the Live + Same Day ratings for Season 7 so far:

10-23-16 “The Day Will Come When You Won’t Be” 17.029 million
10-30-16 “The Well” 12.455 million
11-06-16 “The Cell” 11.721 million
11-13-16 “Service” 11.402 million
11-20-16 “Go Getters” 10.996 million
11-27-16 “Swear” 10.403 million
12-04-16 “Sing Me a Song” 10.481 million
12-11-16 “Hearts Still Beating” 10.583 million

02-12-17 “Rock in the Road” 11.996 million

Edited February 14, 2017 by Raven1707
Fixing it

[AwesomO4000]

3 hours ago, Ocean Chick said:

I'll expect Rosita to express remorse for Olivia's death right after we get Daryl's remorse for Glenn's death.

True, but like Eugene, Daryl also did a penance of sorts. He was kept in crazy-making confinement at Negan's compound where - for me anyway - it looked like Daryl almost thought that he belonged there and deserved the treatment, because he felt guilty about Glen. Again, miles may vary on whether Daryl was really showing remorse there or not, or whether Daryl had paid enough for his mistakes or not, but the potential was there.

Something may still yet be coming up for Rosita to make amends in some way also. We'll see what happens. And I could change my mind - it's been known to happen - but as of now, I'm going to question it, just as many questioned what Daryl did when it came to Glen.

[Dobian]

1 hour ago, Raven1707 said:

02-12-17 “Rock in the Road” 11.996 million

The first episode of the second half is always going to have a ratings bump, but I expect after this one it will hold the numbers since the plot direction is more positive and hopeful and CDB is doing something about their situation and not just sitting there being flogged by Negan.

[ghoulina]

4 hours ago, Ocean Chick said:

I'll expect Rosita to express remorse for Olivia's death right after we get Daryl's remorse for Glenn's death.

To be fair, with Daryl they had just met Negan. They weren't yet aware that he operates by taking out anyone BUT the person who just offended him. Granted, I still think Daryl was super stupid in that moment, but he only thought he was risking himself at that point. After the clearing, all who were there know that's how Negan operates. And Rosita still tried to get cute. 

[Mu Shu]

Eh.  I'd like to give Rosita an award for getting a dullard of a character offed.   If she can find a way to dispose of Tara, I'll give her another award.  And some piano wire.   It didn't  happen if no one saw it....and that damn stupid CGI tiger.  And that stupid fat Joey  type who sits by the dweeby ass king of fools. 

since there are so many Neganites, why wasn't some one tasked to provide surveillance of the roadblock?  What do all those people do with their time?  Mop up pee  and clean the burnt skin off irons?   Shuffle around in gunny sacks grinding wheat? 

[ShadowSixx]

4 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Well, Morgan does have that nifty jail cell he wasted so much time and resources to build. He can put Negan there and take food from the mouths of Negan's victims to feed him. (Whereupon I would hope Rick would say, "You give him one crust of bread and I'll kill you." And then do it.)He doesn't want to kill Negan because all life is precious, or it is until Morgan's noggin is Lucille's target when Negan's life would no longer be so precious.

 

Morgan is just stupid, since he feels this way he needs to be holed up with Carol in that little shack and disappear forever since they no longer want to fight or kill. Capturing Negan would bring more harm than good because he doesn't think that the Saviors would harass them and possibly kill them until they found Negan. Simon already said what would happen if they find Daryl with Rick. I can't believe Morgan would want to capture Negan after hearing how Glenn & Abe died and Olivia and bitch Spencer's death. In the zombie apocalypse someone like Negan can't be reasoned with and death is the only option. That man made cell more than likely has some flaws in it. If I was Rick I would tell Morgan that since he wants Morgan captured, Morgan can be the one to watch him 24/7.

[ShadowSixx]

4 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

Eh.  I'd like to give Rosita an award for getting a dullard of a character offed.   If she can find a way to dispose of Tara, I'll give her another award.  And some piano wire.   It didn't  happen if no one saw it....and that damn stupid CGI tiger.  And that stupid fat Joey  type who sits by the dweeby ass king of fools. 

since there are so many Neganites, why wasn't some one tasked to provide surveillance of the roadblock?  What do all those people do with their time?  Mop up pee  and clean the burnt skin off irons?   Shuffle around in gunny sacks grinding wheat? 

 

Neganites are dumb as hell. Nothing but bullies with guns. They can't take a shit without Negan's say so and I bet they have to report the frequency and color of their fecal matter to him as well. I can see it now, "I took a 3 minute shit, it was green and runny, and used half a roll of toilet paper."

[Boofish]

2 minutes ago, ShadowSixx said:

 

Neganites are dumb as hell. Nothing but bullies with guns. They can't take a shit without Negan's say so and I bet they have to report the frequency and color of their fecal matter to him as well. I can see it now, "I took a 3 minute shit, it was green and runny, and used half a roll of toilet paper."

You have to EARN toilet paper

[ShadowSixx]

1 minute ago, Boofish said:

You have to EARN toilet paper

lol true, then they used their hands or item of clothing

[AngelaHunter]

39 minutes ago, ShadowSixx said:

I can't believe Morgan would want to capture Negan after hearing how Glenn & Abe died and Olivia and bitch Spencer's death.

Yes, but - he wasn't there to see it so it doesn't matter. His beliefs (which he's willing to discard in an instant if it's expedient for him) are something everyone should understand and honor. The ego - to stand there and go into the way he killed someone because he had no choice and expecting everyone to have some sort of major reaction to it had me screaming, "OH, FFS, just shut the fuck up! No one cares!"

Which reminds me: As Rick was telling that long, drawn-out ridiculous parable his mommy read to him in his childhood? And everyone stood there with Serious Faces, absorbing it? OMG. I was hoping people would start doing what they did in the movie "Airplane":

"I hope this hasn't been boring for you."

[spacefly]

I always kind of half watch an episode the first time and then after reading here I go back and watch again keeping in mind some of the comments I have read here. All I have to say is that while watching the Hilltop discussion with Gregory I could not get "Bad Lip Syncing" out of my head. Watch that scene again it is pure gold for a "Bad Lip Syncing" video 

[ParadoxLost]

6 hours ago, Boofish said:

This made me laugh so hard. I personally don't have a problem with Ezekiel's act because it's not so he can take advantage of anyone. It's to bring about a calm to his community and there really is no harm in that .. 

But I think there is a significant potential for harm.  That's why I quibble with the way he acts with his community versus outsiders.  He dials his shtick  up to eleven with outsiders.   Nuttier than a squirrel turd, and not in an intimidating way, is not a particularly safe persona to present to outsiders.   Most of the groups we've seen would be more inclined to try to take what the Kingdom has because they are using this coping mechanism.  Even the Rick that rolled up to Alexandria would have tried to make them see their peril and forcibly save them from themselves because its dangerous out there.

There are clearly people who go along with the charade but don't need it to cope.  Why doesn't Ezekiel use these people to help him deal with outsiders and keep the theatrics internal where its safer.

I guess my other question is around the Saviors.  Ezekiel somehow managed to make a deal to keep their support secret out of fear his people would want to fight.  So why is that?  Is he afraid that the coping mechanism would collapse under the reality of a fight with the saviors?  Or are some of the community so far removed from reality that they think they are Knights of post-Zombie apocalypse Camelot and doesn't want them to get slaughtered?

[Gobi]

I still don't get how Negan keeps the Saviors loyal. CDB wipes out an outpost of Saviors, then another group on the road, and maybe more I've forgotten. Negan's reaction? Kill one of them in retaliation (and another, unplanned). That wouldn't go over big with me, especially if I knew any of the Saviors that were killed.

And still somewhat related, it seems awfully inefficient to have the Saviors constantly monitoring the other groups instead of just doing  the work/scavenging themselves. It seems that would be a better way to keep them busy.

[magemaud]

2 hours ago, ShadowSixx said:

"I took a 3 minute shit, it was green and runny, and used half a roll of toilet paper."

Could "green and runny" be the result of eating those pigs who fed on Walkers? 

Changing the subject, I still think Dwight and Sherry may be recruited to lead an inside coup against Negan. 

[Gobi]

1 minute ago, magemaud said:

Could "green and runny" be the result of eating those pigs who fed on Walkers? 

Changing the subject, I still think Dwight and Sherry may be recruited to lead an inside coup against Negan. 

Sure seems to be heading  that way.

[nodorothyparker]

4 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

But I think there is a significant potential for harm.  That's why I quibble with the way he acts with his community versus outsiders.  He dials his shtick  up to eleven with outsiders.   Nuttier than a squirrel turd, and not in an intimidating way, is not a particularly safe persona to present to outsiders.   Most of the groups we've seen would be more inclined to try to take what the Kingdom has because they are using this coping mechanism.  Even the Rick that rolled up to Alexandria would have tried to make them see their peril and forcibly save them from themselves because its dangerous out there.

There are clearly people who go along with the charade but don't need it to cope.  Why doesn't Ezekiel use these people to help him deal with outsiders and keep the theatrics internal where its safer.

I guess my other question is around the Saviors.  Ezekiel somehow managed to make a deal to keep their support secret out of fear his people would want to fight.  So why is that?  Is he afraid that the coping mechanism would collapse under the reality of a fight with the saviors?  Or are some of the community so far removed from reality that they think they are Knights of post-Zombie apocalypse Camelot and doesn't want them to get slaughtered?

Rick and his crew were specifically brought in to Alexandria to help defend the place and Deanna really was that clueless.  She said in her first appearance they hadn't seen anyone else in a long time and so didn't see the need for anyone to be armed.  Rick could walk around insisting he was going save them from themselves because they really weren't doing anything but having cocktail parties and hosting book clubs.  Those people weren't fighters by any stretch and had been surviving mostly on sheer dumb luck.

In contrast, Jesus tells our crew from the jump that Ezekiel's people really can fight.  As they walk around, Michonne notes that the Kingdom does have significant numbers.  They're staying in fighting shape and learning to shoot with the weapons they have.  They're not defenseless.  Ezekiel does have his crew that deal with the Saviors and go outside the walls who are very much aware of what's going on.  The Kingdom's actually in much better shape than Rick's people because they can feed themselves without having to trade murder sprees for canned goods or scavenge across increasingly dangerous and picked over territory.  Sure, the king with the pet tiger act is as goofy as hell, and Ezekiel is definitely playing the part.  But as our crew is sizing up the place, you can see them quickly assessing that for whatever else they may think about it, the place is well run.  Life there seems about as pleasant as any place we've seen post ZA, so at this point who knows if living in what's essentially a never ending medieval cosplay is a coping thing or a lifestyle choice? 

The only explanation Ezekiel has so far offered for keeping his dealings with the Saviors secret is that he doesn't want his people to die.  Considering they don't seem to have a ton of firepower and the Saviors are mostly a nuisance with their quotas rather than an ever present terror the way they have been with Rick's group, that seems as good a reason as any.

[mightysparrow]

I was disappointed to see Michonne forced to play cheerleader for Rick, AGAIN.  I think the Tammy Wynette routine is getting pretty fucking old.  Michonne is a smart woman and she should know by now that the last thing CDB needs is Rick feeling 'confident'. I'm still trying to figure out what Michonne gets out of a relationship with Rick other than the privilege of taking care of Rick's kids and the chance to ride 'Little Rick' now and then.   I'd like to see Michonne as Queen of the Kingdom.

I can't believe that NOBODY even rolled their eyes when Rick told Ezekiel how he 'beat' the Saviours.  Gregory might be an asshole, but he's right not to have any respect for Rick, who not only got his own people killed but made life worse for the people at Hilltop too.  Ezekiel is being very wise to pass on Rick's scheme.  If Rick wants to get his own people killed, that's on him.  But why should Ezekiel risk his community when things are going pretty good for them? 

I know that dismissing anything that comes out of Morgan's mouth is the 'in' thing, unless it's 'yes, Rick', but it's a shame that NOBODY takes a second to consider what he's saying.  He did say that the attack on the outpost was a bad idea.  I'm sure that Glenn and Abe, wherever they are now, agree with him on that one.

Edited February 15, 2017 by mightysparrow
proofreading is a good thing

[ganesh]

I'm also rolling my eyes at the 'kingdom'. Dude, come on. This is real now. Though I appreciate Morgan actually thinking somewhat strategically. You'd think someone would have had similar thoughts in the prior weeks, when, oh I don't know, Neegan was completely exposed 15 times or so? I also don't see why they couldn't do this "go around and talk to the towns sooner", since we all knew they were going in this direction. They could have had longer negotiations/strategizing plot development. 

Though I appreciate the quicker pace of the show and actual things happening. Do TPTBs know that the show is actually good when they're out doing stuff?

The problem I have is that it seems like nearly all the groups CBD meet are either completely psychotic or bonkers. 

Edited February 15, 2017 by ganesh

[ganesh]

9 hours ago, GodsBeloved said:

To quote The Wire's Namond Brice, it ain't that you do shit, it's how you do it.

Or, "you come at the king, you best not miss" also appropriate. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

18 hours ago, Nashville said:

As well you should.  Somehow I had managed to forget that line, until you refreshed my memory.  So thank you very fucking much.

 

13 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I had forgotten it too, or blocked it out. Seeing it again, and the terrifying visuals it conjures up, has traumatized me. Dolphin smooth in general is revolting enough, but dolphin smooth Abe? Jesus H...

C'mon you two.  What says "Happy Valentine's Day" more than celebrating the greatness that was 'dolphin smooth'??!

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to step away for a bit........

*hurries to the bathroom and tries to stifle the noise of his retching*

[Nashville]

12 hours ago, ghoulina said:

To be fair, with Daryl they had just met Negan. They weren't yet aware that he operates by taking out anyone BUT the person who just offended him. Granted, I still think Daryl was super stupid in that moment, but he only thought he was risking himself at that point. After the clearing, all who were there know that's how Negan operates. And Rosita still tried to get cute. 

And also to be fair - if Negan hadn't gotten ridiculously lucky with swinging Lucille up at exactly the right moment to interpose the bat square into the line of fire, Rosita would have removed the Negan problem right then and there.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I got Negan figured out.  He'll go apeshit violent on men, but can't seem to lift a finger against women or children.

He should have turned Rosita's head into ground beef, but instead had what's-her-face take someone out before taking off with 'Peeper', no 'Haircut', still not right, its 'Sausage Biter'.   Damnit, I mean Eugene. 

Edited February 15, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[AngelaHunter]

14 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

I know that dismissing anything that comes out of Morgan's mouth is the 'in' thing, unless it's 'yes, Rick', but it's a shame that NOBODY takes a second to consider what he's saying.  He did say that the attack on the outpost was a bad idea. 

Not because it's "in", but I haven't heard anything come out of his mouth that was helpful or made any sense. Yes, he did say the outpost attack was a bad idea, and maybe if he had said it was poorly planned, strategically bad and reckless and detailed why, instead of droning on and preaching sanctity of all life (would he have thought Gareth's life was sacred, I wonder?) someone might have listened to him. I don't think he DID see it as strategically bad, just morally, and morals in a kill or be killed world surely are not prime considerations.

[mightysparrow]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

Not because it's "in", but I haven't heard anything come out of his mouth that was helpful or made any sense. Yes, he did say the outpost attack was a bad idea, and maybe if he had said it was poorly planned, strategically bad and reckless and detailed why, instead of droning on and preaching sanctity of all life (would he have thought Gareth's life was sacred, I wonder?) someone might have listened to him. I don't think he DID see it as strategically bad, just morally, and morals in a kill or be killed world surely are not prime considerations.

Is Morgan required to be all-seeing and all-knowing?  Morgan said it was a mistake because it was a bad thing to do and IT WAS.  Attacking people while they slept was one of the lowest things that CDB has done.  But Morgan wasn't the only one with misgivings.  Michonne didn't think it was a good idea.  Glenn hated what he had to do.  Perhaps if Michonne or Glenn or any of the others had had the guts to stand up to King Rick, Negan wouldn't have been sitting in Rick's kitchen, holding Judith and drinking lemonade.  If Rick wants to be the all-powerful leader, he should be man enough to take responsibility for his MANY fuck-ups.

[mandolin]

I don't have a ton of comments to make, but I do feel strongly enough in my Tara hate to chime in. I don't understand how she is out there with the main characters on "missions." When Glenn found her, she was worthless (that wasn't that long ago!). And now, she's some badass? I can't stand her, and her stupid fist-bumps, even when she isn't doing them. GAH. Her expressions even make me angry.

Good to see some of the gang together and some hijinks. I didn't quite understand Rosita's disgust towards Sasha, because I thought they'd bonded with a head nod last half season or something.