S01.E15: Jack Pearson's Son

[Phoebe70]

Too many unrealistic things in this episode.  

1.  Kate being "kicked out" of camp just because Duke's parents own the camp.  And Kate didn't seem too bothered by it.

2.  Hospice nurse not allowing William to drink a Coke.  My father had hospice the last few months of his life and they were incredible.  At that point in a patient's life, they are not going to deny someone a Coke.

3. Rebecca never mentioning that she dated the piano player.  Really?  It seemed out of character for her to never mention that little tidbit to Jack, ever.

4.  Kevin walking out of the play seconds before it starts.  That was ridiculous.  I know it was supposed to tug at our heartstrings that he left to comfort Randall, but all I could think of was how screwed Sloane and all the other actors were.  I mean, the New York Times was there to review it!  And he just leaves without any explanation to Sloane?  I'm not a Kevin fan to begin with, but this actually made me think less of him.  It was obvious he was very nervous before the play started, and it seemed like Randall's breakdown was the perfect excuse for him to bolt.

[ShadowFacts]

16 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

Issues of trust or lies or jealous or fidelity aside, I don't quite get all the piling on Rebecca for taking a couple weeks to do this thing she wants to do. No, she's probably not going to get famous. Yeah, it's an inconvenience to Jack and the kids. Yeah, she's a parent, and that's a full time job. But the kids are teens, not little kids, and it's a short period of time to be away. For something that fulfills her, that is her job, in essence, even tho she probably makes very little $$. It's not an ideal situation, but I don't think it makes her a bad parent.

I agree, it doesn't make her a bad parent.  The writing had to overdo how much these teens need parental oversight, what with Kevin having sex and Randall strung out and Kate wearing eyeliner, but they are in school during the day and Jack can arrange to be home a little earlier, etc.  It can be done.  And after all, they are having sex and anxiety attacks and eyeliner while she is there right now.  Jack is a super-involved parent so he can handle it for a short stretch. 

[Clanstarling]

25 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

I don't think this an UO. Pretty much everyone seems to be anti-Rebecca-touring. I'm a little surprised at it, tho I also get it, on some level. My significant other is a musician, teaches music, plays in several bands locally. If he were suddenly to go on a 5 city tour, I'd be less than delighted. He's never given me reason to not trust him, but as has been discussed in the 'Social Issues' thread, people are human and temptations exist and some find monogamy an outdated premise that nobody lives up to anyway. Add booze and dark bars and yeah, I'd be not happy. Add a hot bandmate who was a former ex, and yeah, no,  I get Jack's reaction.

Issues of trust or lies or jealous or fidelity aside, I don't quite get all the piling on Rebecca for taking a couple weeks to do this thing she wants to do. No, she's probably not going to get famous. Yeah, it's an inconvenience to Jack and the kids. Yeah, she's a parent, and that's a full time job. But the kids are teens, not little kids, and it's a short period of time to be away. For something that fulfills her, that is her job, in essence, even tho she probably makes very little $$. It's not an ideal situation, but I don't think it makes her a bad parent.

My husband is a musician too. I'm not crazy when he sings duets with women (that may be a mild statement vs reality), but fortunately most of his bands have been all male. I get the worry and the jealousy, and I wouldn't be happy if he toured with someone who had the hots for him (though he has played gigs with the same), but my trust in him is rock solid. And in 30+ years together, there's never been a moment that gave me any reason to doubt. Though there is one former girlfriend I might go all Jack about if that ever occurred. LOL.

Totally agree about not getting the piling on about Rebecca's tour - and that teens are not toddlers. And while Kevin having sex at 16 is not ideal (though it is realistic), I think it is worth noting that he is having sex with someone he loves, and has loved for years, and not cutting a swath through the cheerleaders.

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Totally agree about not getting the piling on about Rebecca's tour - and that teens are not toddlers. And while Kevin having sex at 16 is not ideal (though it is realistic), I think it is worth noting that he is having sex with someone he loves, and has loved for years, and not cutting a swath through the cheerleaders.

Was helicopter parenting a thing yet in the '90s?  Honestly, these kids are supposed to be move out ready (or close to) in two years.  They really ought to be able to survive with just one parent around for a few weeks at this age.  I'm not saying it's OK to decide to up and abandon your teenagers, but assuming she's planning on calling and checking in, and available for emergencies, I don't see the big deal.  When I was 14(?) my parents left for a week and dropped me off a a friend's house, which I guess still technically gave me two adults but I'm still one kid (plus their 3), but anyway, I assure you I wasn't emotionally scarred in any way.

[topanga]

On 2/15/2017 at 4:26 AM, chocolatine said:

I was glad to see Jack finally speak his mind to Rebecca, even if it wasn't a noble sentiment; it was a refreshing change from the perpetually self-sacrificing, grand-gesturing hero. As for "relapsing", we saw him have one drink. I know this is a heavy-handed TV show, so that drink will probably have a greater meaning, but in real life, plenty of people have a drink at the end of a sucky day without it meaning anything. 

Teenage Randall's first anxiety attack interrupted the sex talk Jack and Rebecca were having with Kevin. You could see Kevin's face fall when his parents immediately turned all their attention to Randall and forgot about him, and that's why I think he didn't go in to comfort Randall when he was having another anxiety attack in his room. It was petty of him, but also in character for a teenager. As for present day Kevin, I agree that it was unacceptable that he didn't even tell Sloane. The way he handled it made Sloane the collateral damage of his big "I'm my father's son" epiphany.

But recovering alcoholics (is Jack an alcoholic?) usually can't have just one drink without slipping in to a full relapse. 

I've been Kevin in the situation you described--you're having a discussion with your parents, and your sibling comes into the room (not bleeding or dying, mind you), and all of their attention turns toward that sibling. So I get Kevin ignoring his crying brother. It is nice to see that as an adult, he's reaching out to help Randall in his time of need. But, yeah, Sloane got screwed. 

BTW, does Kevin do anything at Randall's house? I'm assuming he offers to cook, clean, pick up the girls from school, run errands, etc. since he's this freeloading millionaire who sits around their house all day. 

 

On 2/15/2017 at 7:06 AM, Crs97 said:

He didn't pressure her.  When he realized she couldn't talk about it, he gently told her he would wait until she was ready.  Then he suggested a long engagement because they need this time to know each other and be comfortable enough to tell each other these kinds of stories.  Most mature thing Toby has done so far on this show.

That's the way I interpreted Toby's words. But I've always liked him. He can be selfish, and his humor is sometimes inappropriate, but it always seems like he cares about Kate and thinks he's giving her what she needs. 

 

On 2/15/2017 at 11:08 AM, scarynikki12 said:

I was totally on Rebecca's side in that fight.  I get that Jack was feeling insecure and jealous but, like she said, they dated for a couple of months when she was 19, which is nothing compared to her actual marriage.  Also, Jack's jealousy clearly prevented him from hearing the part of the conversation where the guy mentioned that Rebecca had told him she didn't even want to be married.  If he had been paying attention he could have responded with "she just hadn't found the right guy" and left it there.  Rebecca mentioned in their fight that, even though them dating for two months was nothing, she didn't want to tell him because she knew he'd get jealous.  I hope this wasn't a throw away line and we get to see the times Jack did express jealousy over nothing.  I'm one who believes that we're getting Saint Jack at the beginning of the series (though I would argue we've seen plenty of flaws already that the show just hasn't drawn our attention to) so that we will forgive and accept Human Jack when those flaws get explored.  I hope the jealousy is one of those things that get explored. 

I must admit that I only saw bits and pieces of that fight. I fast-forward through most of the Jack-Rebecca scenes now. For some reason, they've really started to bore me. Even with this argument and Jack's jealous outburst, everything else I've seen from this season tells me that their epic love is soooooooo perfect--they're soul mates that complete each other.  I'm waiting for one of them to say, "You had me at 'Steelers.'" And of course, Jack is the perfect husband and father while Rebecca is always wrong. Even when Jack starts drinking at the end of the episode, it's her fault: Rebecca drove him to drink with her lying, sneaky ways.  

But I absolutely love the Big 3 as teenagers. Yes, their performances were great. And the three young actors do resemble their adult counterparts. For example, I noticed that even though young Kevin doesn't look exactly like adult Kevin, they have the same nose and the same mannerisms. 

[Guest]

I thought the romantic song they had Rebecca sing, paired with all the longing looks between her and Ben, was kind of hammy.   The song was about wanting to get back together with someone from your past even.  Even if Rebecca didn't know Jack was there, it was so over the top.  

I never noticed what a few people said about Moore's mouth when she speaks but I guess maybe that is why I find myself watching her mouth in every scene.  I thought it was the chicklet teeth but it probably is some exaggerated shaping of her words or something?  

[MsChicklet]

This is just the beginning of the long reveal about Jack. There are reasons everyone loved him, and there are passions and insecurities which drove him for better or worse. And we're going to be learning about them little by little. Jack's outer layer was the amazing, loving husband and dad. But underneath that is someone who grew up in financial insecurity, in a home dominated by addiction and abuse, and possibly other issues that haven't been revealed.

I'm liking Toby more. Not just because he's in contrast to Fat Camp Douchecanoe. When he instantly backed off when he saw talking about Jack's death was hard on Kate, and when he spoke of waiting to get married, he showed real maturity. 

I can see why Kate's not upset about being booted from Fat Camp. She may have been relieved to get away from a bad situation. There are other options, other fat camps, other ways to work on her issues. And I'm glad Douchecanoe Duke's nastiness didn't crush her.

Edited February 16, 2017 by MsChicklet

[Cardie]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

I graduated college in '94 (yes I'm old)

I graduated college in 1971. You are not old.

[Arcadiasw]

I deleted the episode but how long is Rebecca's tour and when does it start? 

[kili]

Quote

BTW, does Kevin do anything at Randall's house? I'm assuming he offers to cook, clean, pick up the girls from school, run errands, etc. since he's this freeloading millionaire who sits around their house all day. 

He babysat the kids one night. He also ran an errand to pick up the crackers and the hot dogs. He mostly seems to sleep and jog.

I think the Randall household has a maid or something. If Randall is working long, long hours and Beth is a lawyer - they might have some help. Either that or Beth is a superwoman (Randall's boss says that he is the first to arrive and last to leave at a competitive NY investment firm, so that translates to long hours in my brain. Plus, he has homework. I can't see him prioritizing his downtime to spend with his kids rather than scrubbing down the bathroom).

Jack's long hours are also what make Rebecca's trip hard. They should use the wages from her tour to get in some help. Sure, they could get the kids to do extra, but Randall is already having panic attacks from how much school work he has. Down the pressure on everybody and get in a maid and have simple food/take-out. Jack is going to have to adjust hours to get the kids to all their events (you can't drop out of the debate club/football/whatever and expect to get back on the team a month later), if they can backfill Rebecca's job somewhat it can help. Remember, her being a homemaker is a full-time job. If you think you can replace it with an extra half hour of Jack's time, that's not saying much about her job.

Edited February 16, 2017 by kili

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, kili said:

and Beth is a lawyer

Has the show said she's a lawyer?  I know she said she was "about to go back to work full time" in The Game Plan.  (Which, by the way, included another heart-to-heart with a couple just hanging out on a bathroom floor that isn't theirs.)  

[Baltimore Betty]

I was saddened by Kate leaving her camp, she was so passionate about it she was willing to forgo seeing her fiancé so she could give it 100%.  Kate left without so much as a whimper. If that was my business and I found out my son had been talking to the campers and threatening them with kicking them out my son would be out the door not a paying customer.  I call BS on that and the hospice nurse telling William he couldn't have a coke and Kevin walking out of the play but it is still a well done show.

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, kili said:

Down the pressure on everybody and get in a maid and have simple food/take-out. Jack is going to have to adjust hours to get the kids to all their events (you can't drop out of the debate club/football/whatever and expect to get back on the team a month later),

They're in Pittsburgh.  PIttsburgh has buses right?  I mean, I realize that evening debates and Friday night football teams would need to be driven to and from, but surely after school practices and whatnot could be navigated by the kids on their own.

[Clanstarling]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

They're in Pittsburgh.  PIttsburgh has buses right?  I mean, I realize that evening debates and Friday night football teams would need to be driven to and from, but surely after school practices and whatnot could be navigated by the kids on their own.

Not to mention car pools.

[howiveaddict]

4 hours ago, Phoebe70 said:

2.  Hospice nurse not allowing William to drink a Coke.  My father had hospice the last few months of his life and they were incredible.  At that point in a patient's life, they are not going to deny someone a Coke.

I found this totally unbelievable.  Hospice is about helping the patient and family be comfortable. Let them eat, drink what they want, or not eat or drink at all.  

[meep.meep]

13 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

I get that, but would have far preferred if he had shouted, "I've got to go now!" to someone - anyone - as he ran out.  There was no need for a plan of action.  Just let someone know that you're leaving.  I'm also not so sure there will be other plays.  Disappearing like that could easily be professional suicide.  I'm not saying he shouldn't have gone, but the way he handled it made no sense.  Dumb and unrealistic, IMO.

He needed to tell the Stage Manager that he was leaving.  It is SOP in any theatrical production that the Stage Manager is in charge of the actual production.  From Call to when the curtain goes down.  Presumably, they would stop the show with "technical difficulties", get the understudy into costume, and restart in a few minutes.

But if the lead, especially a celebrity lead, doesn't do the show on opening night, it's going to be a big deal.

My mother's hospice nurses were always incredibly helpful.  No way would they have said no, if she actually wanted to eat/drink something.  He's not dying of morbid obesity - he needs calories anyway he can get them.

[Guest]

That was kind of comical, too.  He was standing there talking to Sloane and then she walked out on stage and said the first line and he was already outta there.  He could've easily, easily said, "I can't do this.  I've got a family emergency."  It was almost like he thought he might make it back on time and no one would notice he slipped out.  Heh.  

[Katy M]

Just now, Winston9-DT3 said:

That was kind of comical, too.  He was standing there talking to Sloane and then she walked out on stage and said the first line and he was already outta there.  He could've easily, easily said, "I can't do this.  I've got a family emergency."  It was almost like he thought he might make it back on time and no one would notice he slipped out.  Heh.  

LOL.  I think he didn't say anything, because he literally made the decision after she had already stepped out, but he could have called her back.  Can you imagine your first time ever on stage, and you're hung out to dry like that?

[Guest]

I guess it was meant to show the depth of his love but it also kind of showed the depth of his stupidity and lack of professionalism.  

I would like to imagine that Sloane stood there for about 3 seconds then walked off stage and that was the end of her on-stage humiliation.  

[MelGoLightly]

6 hours ago, Biggie B said:

Oh dear...if you graduated from college in 1994, and you're "old," what does that make me? I graduated from college in 1984!!!! A few years later, in 1990, I was working in a mid-sized law firm in Manhattan, and they phased out paper/Styrofoam coffee cups and replaced them with mugs with the firm's logo on it. Each mug was numbered on the bottom, so you could have "your" own mug. They were run through the dishwasher each night by the cleaning staff. I lived and worked in NYC from 1984 to 1993 but I'm not a coffee drinker, so I can't remember when Starbucks rose to prominence. Most folks seemed to buy coffee from a local deli or market and these cups were common:

I think those cups are a pretty Manhattan specific thing. I've lived in Philly, DC and been to NYC a lot and I've never seen them outside of NYC. I am the same age of the B3 (down to the month) and there were coffee cups and sleeves around when I was in high school and college. I remember going to a coffee place near the movie theatre in my pretty ho hum North Carolina town called the "Coffee Scene" and people definitely got cups with the sleeves and all from there to-go. Starbucks was in Pittsburgh by the 90s, and I (also having a slow day) found an article I posted over in the "This is our Minutiae" thread that confirms that the cup and sleeve combo were a thing by the 90s.  http://www.bonappetit.com/entertaining-style/trends-news/article/disposable-coffee-cup-history

[ShadowFacts]

Something just occurred to me about the hospice nurse and the Coke -- it seems like a no-brainer to give the patient what they like, but Coke or anything carbonated can be very tough for a person like me with GERD, so I imagine for someone with Stage 4 stomach cancer, it could be really painful or kick up some kind of pain crisis.  Though William did recently have an egg cream which I guess is carbonated.  If the nurse was brand new to William, she may have just been trying to spare him some pain, or trying to explain why it may not be the best idea, and it spiraled out from there. 

[jhlipton]

11 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

Toby OTOH apparently has/had some kind of high paying job (that paid for his therapist's Lexus). 

Tesla.  Lexus is soooo 2000!  LOL

[SlackerInc]

9 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Like many others, this is a pet peeve of mine as well. It doesn't take much to put water (at least) in a cup and take an actual sip when you're supposed to. Not ever actor is a mime (clearly, as so many of us can tell when the cups are empty).

And you would have to be an extraordinarily talented mime to fake the appearance of inertia.

9 hours ago, Katy M said:

I saw Lauren Graham on a talk show (don't remember which one) and the host told her there had been complaints about how she holds the coffee cups unrealistically, and that they need to have something in them so that she doesn't do that.  She said that stuff like that actually drives her crazy and there is always coffee in her coffee cup.  So, I suppose she could be lying, but it also goes to show that we don't all do things the same way.

Love LG, but I call bullshit on this claim after having watched many seasons of Gilmore Girls.  There is no individual difference that can explain someone moving a heavy object like it is a light one. As I said above, a very talented mime could do the reverse, but I don't think there is a human on earth who could do that, no matter how much they tried.

BTW, you and I are right about the same age, it sounds like, but I would strongly recommend against calling yourself old. At least here, where there are a lot of posters who are decades older than we are.  If you're on some other site dominated by millennials, knock yourself out.

9 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I also don't see Rebecca as some potentially huge music star, at least based on what we've seen so far.

Buuut...she's being played by a huge music star. So doesn't that kind of inherently imply the potential?

[Biggie B]

Quote

Toby OTOH apparently has/had some kind of high paying job (that paid for his therapist's [car]).

I think it was more that Toby was in therapy so long that he in effect paid for the therapist's car, not that he necessarily had such a lucrative job. Although, we've never been given any indication, so who knows what the heck Toby did back then, after his divorce, or what he does now to earn a living.

[chocolatine]

13 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

Buuut...she's being played by a huge music star. So doesn't that kind of inherently imply the potential?

"Huge" is an exaggeration. She was a moderately successful teen pop singer in the 90s. She had nowhere near the success of Britney Spears or Christina Aguilera, or even Jessica Simpson. She's never won, or even been nominated for, a Grammy. None of her songs are considered classics.

[Guest]

Not huge compared to Britney but huge compared to Rebecca, I guess.  

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

Love LG, but I call bullshit on this claim after having watched many seasons of Gilmore Girls.  

I might believe her if she said the cups had water or something.  Who would want to drink cold prop coffee potentially all day?  You'd deserve an Emmy just for stifling the inevitable grimace.  

[SlackerInc]

I guarantee there was nothing in LG's cups, not even water (unless it was a teaspoonful).

31 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

"Huge" is an exaggeration. She was a moderately successful teen pop singer in the 90s. She had nowhere near the success of Britney Spears or Christina Aguilera, or even Jessica Simpson. She's never won, or even been nominated for, a Grammy. None of her songs are considered classics.

 

12 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Not huge compared to Britney but huge compared to Rebecca, I guess.  

Exactly.  I'm sure Rebecca would be content with the following (from. Wikipedia):

--------

As of 2009, Moore has sold more than 10 million albums worldwide, according to Billboard. In 2012, Moore was ranked #96 on VH1's list of "100 Greatest Women in Music",[1]

[MamaMax]

23 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

Funny that there is no emphasis on the Randall-Kate relationship at all.  At least none I can think of offhand.  Something for next year?

And I'm sorry, but the way they handled Kevin continues to bug.  You find out your 15-16 year old son is having regular sex with his girlfriend and all you can say is condoms and respect?  Really?  No discussion of the comparatively high failure rate of condoms, compared to other forms of birth control? And then to totally abandon the discussion to tend to Randall's panic attack?  I understand having to intervene before Randall totally lost it, but at the very least tell Kevin that the discussion was not over.  

But you are making assumption that, in show world, they didn't ever go back to this.  Or that they never discussed it before. Jack's 1. Condoms, 2. respect,might have been bullet pointed reminders of conversations they already had.  I read shock that Kevin was having sex, rather than disapproval or panic.  Their 16 yo son is having sex, this is not necessarily a code red.

20 hours ago, jhlipton said:

4 words, Randall: Federal Family Leave Act.  The boss has to grant it, can't make a big deal about, and bring him back at the same place when Randall is ready.

Sure, he could take time off, but his line of work is pretty dog-eat-dog, and if they reassigned his clients,  he may never get them back. 

 

10 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I also don't like people ordering in a restaurant, saying their lines, and then leaving either before the food even gets there or after taking only a bite or two.  Pulls me out of the scene very quickly.

Jesus asks Himself that very question. 

I was going to say the same thing!!!  My daughter asked me why I don't do the whole "cook a big breakfast" before school for the whole family? And I said: Don't you watch movies and TV? The family never eats it!!  There will be a fully set table with glass carafes of orange juice an a floral centerpiece and a giant platter of pancakes and bacon. They sit down for like 30 seconds, take one bite of toast and are like, "Gotta catch the bus! Bye!"

[Tiger]

6 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Has the show said she's a lawyer?  I know she said she was "about to go back to work full time" in The Game Plan.  (Which, by the way, included another heart-to-heart with a couple just hanging out on a bathroom floor that isn't theirs.)  

I think it was a throwaway line on the show or aftershow or in some interview someone did . . . maybe theyd have time to delve into what Beth does if Toby didnt take up at least a third of the show every week.

[DebbieM4]

5 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Something just occurred to me about the hospice nurse and the Coke -- it seems like a no-brainer to give the patient what they like, but Coke or anything carbonated can be very tough for a person like me with GERD, so I imagine for someone with Stage 4 stomach cancer, it could be really painful or kick up some kind of pain crisis.  Though William did recently have an egg cream which I guess is carbonated.  If the nurse was brand new to William, she may have just been trying to spare him some pain, or trying to explain why it may not be the best idea, and it spiraled out from there. 

My sister had GERD, and was told to drink seltzer slowly to alleviate her symptoms, and it did help.   So clearly there are different schools of thought re carbonated beverages.  

 It's also possible that she just wasn't a very good hospice nurse.  Even in a profession that attracts incredible people who make the final days of patients far easier, certainly there are some who aren't as good as others. 

[Katy M]

5 minutes ago, DebbieM4 said:

My sister had GERD, and was told to drink seltzer slowly to alleviate her symptoms, and it did help.   So clearly there are different schools of thought re carbonated beverages.  

 It's also possible that she just wasn't a very good hospice nurse.  Even in a profession that attracts incredible people who make the final days of patients far easier, certainly there are some who aren't as good as others. 

It could have been that she thought it would upset his stomach.  She could have just been being a jerk.  Or, it could have been a miscommunication.  Such as, he had just eaten something, or taken his meds, and it would be better for him to wait 10 minutes to half an hour before having a Coke.  Considering the fact that he locked her out of the house over this, he wasn't being very rational anyway--which is fine.  Like someone pointed out earlier, when you're dying, that's the one time you can make everything about you.

[chocolatine]

But how would it have been physically possible for William to lock the nurse out of the house? The man could barely carry a dish to the sink earlier that day.

2 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

Exactly.  I'm sure Rebecca would be content with the following (from. Wikipedia):

--------

As of 2009, Moore has sold more than 10 million albums worldwide, according to Billboard. In 2012, Moore was ranked #96 on VH1's list of "100 Greatest Women in Music",[1]

I guess you and I have different definitions of "huge music star". To me, a "huge" female music star would be someone like Adele or the late Whitney Houston.

[theatremouse]

On 2/14/2017 at 9:18 PM, Gemma Violet said:

Wouldn't the actors in the play have had understudies?  I mean, I know it's not Broadway or anything, but a play starring The Manny that the NY Times is reviewing you would think would have a back-up plan in case one of the headliners got sick or something.

In a production that small it would not be unusual for there to be no understudies. Also it bugged me they kept saying it was Opening Night when it appeared to be only the first performance which I'd usually think would be a preview. Which I mention only because understudies often have until the end of previews to get off book, so even if there were an understudy, if the understudy went on, it would almost certainly be script-in-hand if this is the first perf.

10 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

I deleted the episode but how long is Rebecca's tour and when does it start? 

Previous episode referred to it as "five state" which gave no indication of time, but during her list-making conversation with Jack he said something about "for the next month".

[SlackerInc]

37 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I guess you and I have different definitions of "huge music star". To me, a "huge" female music star would be someone like Adele or the late Whitney Houston.

My definition is not that strict, no.  But I think you are also losing track of the context.  I was responding to someone saying "I also don't see Rebecca as some potentially huge music star, at least based on what we've seen so far." Do you really interpret that as "From what we've seen so far, middle class lounge singer and SAHM Rebecca may end up selling ten million albums, but she'll never equal the success of Adele or Whitney Houston"?  I sure didn't.

[kat165]

Reading about the hospice nurse makes me wonder if she was actually a hospice nurse. Was that said? Because now I am wondering if she was just a nurse brought in to keep an eye on William and not specifically a hospice nurse. A regular old nurse might try to dictate to William, that maybe coke would not be the best thing for him to have. She's dealing with day to day care while a hospice nurse is dealing with end of life. So what the hell, let him have the coke. Follow? So possibly this scene is not all that unrealistic.

Except the part about William locking her out of the house. I would have liked to have seen how that came to be.

I don't feel either way about Miguel, only that I don't care much for the actor. So I am neither defending him or putting him down. But it bothered me that Kevin came into his house - when upon finding out his mom was not there he could have left - and proceeded 
to dump his troubles onto Miguel. Miguel tried to give him some good advice, and Kevin didn't even have the manners to thank him. So what Miguel brought up "you don't like me,"  it seemed the perfect opportunity to do so. He helped Kevin out, maybe Kevin could help him out with a little enlightenment. But Kevin, as usual, was too wrapped up in his own issues.

It also bothered me that Kevin showed up at Randall's office. And just sat there. While Randall was obviously busy/preoccupied and then got the call about his father. Kevin could have volunteered to go help so Randall could stay at work, but Kevin is just so tone deaf to others' problems/lives. I generally like Kevin but his selfishness/self-centeredness is really annoying. And well done/completely believeable.

Perhaps I am forgetting but did Kevin and Kate have a falling out? Why wasn't she on his list of people to visit/cry to about his insecurities about the play?

I loved him going to Randall, but yeah, he should not have run out on Sloan, the play. I do hope we see that he let someone know that he was leaving.

[kili]

Quote

But how would it have been physically possible for William to lock the nurse out of the house? The man could barely carry a dish to the sink earlier that day.

He probably tricked her into going outside for something and then locked the door. Or they have one of those locks that you can open from the inside, but they are still engaged so if you go outside, you are automatically locked out.

Once she was outside, he wouldn't let her back in and probably told her to go home.

I think William's tantrum was one part because he was just feeling horrible and one part because he didn't want to deal with some nurse he'd just been introduced to. He either wanted to be with family/Jessie or alone. He's dying - he's allowed to want to be picky and a little prickly.

[Sayla Vee]

1 hour ago, kat165 said:

.

It also bothered me that Kevin showed up at Randall's office. And just sat there. While Randall was obviously busy/preoccupied and then got the call about his father. Kevin could have volunteered to go help so Randall could stay at work, but Kevin is just so tone deaf to others' problems/lives. I generally like Kevin but his selfishness/self-centeredness is really annoying. And well done/completely believeable.

But he did offer, and Randall rejected the offer.

 

[kat165]

Thanks, Sayla, I didn't catch him offering.

[NutMeg]

1 hour ago, kat165 said:

Perhaps I am forgetting but did Kevin and Kate have a falling out? Why wasn't she on his list of people to visit/cry to about his insecurities about the play?

 

Kevin tried to call her several times and she didn't return his calls. We saw him call one time and say something like "Damn, Kate, where are you? Can you call me back?" (Wording uncertain, but the idea was that it was not his first call)

Kate being awol with nothing better than shop with Toby for a fugly jacket is a extreme change from the way she dropped everything whenever he sneezed in the early episode. Too extreme if there is nothing to explain why she went from over available to not even interested. My theory is that the writers had her not pick up or return the call so that, with Kevin also unavailable and Sophie working, Kevin had no other choice that to turn to Rebecca (who of course wasn't there for him! :D Not reason that would change after 36 years) so that we got the "What would Jack do?" talk from Miguel. But I do agree that the whole convoluted way to get there was a disservice to the characters.

That's a good example of how some interactions that I don't find super interesting (such as Kate and Toby shop for an unfortunate jacket) have seem to take the place of some that would bring any combination of the 3 together, and without any other character if possible, so that they can more easily be fully honest with each other, the way siblings can be when alone together.  

[kat165]

Thanks, Nutmeg. I didn't catch that either. I agree with you about the convoluted set up to get Kevin w/ Miguel. I could do with a lot less Toby. Now that the siblings are all on the east coast I would like to see them interact more.
 

[Haleth]

8 hours ago, theatremouse said:

Previous episode referred to it as "five state" which gave no indication of time, but during her list-making conversation with Jack he said something about "for the next month".

I thought she said five city?  I was imagining they were touring Rust Belt cities and wouldn't really be that far from home.  Honestly, the band isn't great and probably wouldn't be booked outside of the local-ish (Rust Belt) area.

[ShadowFacts]

13 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I thought she said five city?  I was imagining they were touring Rust Belt cities and wouldn't really be that far from home.  Honestly, the band isn't great and probably wouldn't be booked outside of the local-ish (Rust Belt) area.

I think it's a stretch that a group of middle-aged lounge singers would be booked for any tour, short of them being outstanding or with some sort of "catch."  Unless maybe a summer festival situation, or as openers at state or county fairs, but it's not summer.  Maybe someone with more music/entertainment life experience can set me straight, but this is kind of a hard sell for me. 

[luna1122]

7 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think it's a stretch that a group of middle-aged lounge singers would be booked for any tour, short of them being outstanding or with some sort of "catch."  Unless maybe a summer festival situation, or as openers at state or county fairs, but it's not summer.  Maybe someone with more music/entertainment life experience can set me straight, but this is kind of a hard sell for me. 

My guy is in a few bands, and several of HIS friends are in other bands, and they're only a little younger than this band is supposed to be, I think. Occasionally, some of them go 'on tour', but what it really means, generally, is they've booked a few club gigs in other states, just for exposure and a new experience. It's not really a tour in any classic sense, just some new gigs in new places. Maybe that's what this is.

[Crs97]

7 hours ago, kat165 said:

wonder if she was actually a hospice nurse. Was that said

Yes, Randall said to William that he needed the "nurse from hospice."

I know we have seen Kevin get the short end of the stick, but we've also heard Rebecca talk about scouts coming to watch Kevin play his football game.  We know they attend all the games.  We know Jack leaves early from work to get them from all their practices.  I wonder if we are supposed to be seeing this through Kevin's eyes of feeling neglected, and maybe later on we realize he wasn't?  I have a sister who acts like that.  Her friends are stunned when we mention all the special times she had with one or more parents.

[Baltimore Betty]

What exactly does Kate do for money and where does she live?

[Lady Calypso]

29 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I know we have seen Kevin get the short end of the stick, but we've also heard Rebecca talk about scouts coming to watch Kevin play his football game.  We know they attend all the games.  We know Jack leaves early from work to get them from all their practices.  I wonder if we are supposed to be seeing this through Kevin's eyes of feeling neglected, and maybe later on we realize he wasn't?  I have a sister who acts like that.  Her friends are stunned when we mention all the special times she had with one or more parents.

He's not neglected in the sense that his parents don't go to any of his games or help him when he needs help. But I think he's neglected in the sense that his siblings come before him. If Randall or Kate have a problem, they're helped before Kevin. I don't think Rebecca or Jack ever had a clue, even when little Kevin pointed it out in The Pool. We know Randall has acknowledged that at least Rebecca seemed to favour Randall and he did try to apologize for Kevin having moved into the basement as a teen. So I think Kevin has had his moments, but it's not enough when you see your parents share more of a bond with your other siblings. 

It also doesn't help that we haven't seen Kevin have a meaningful conversation with either of his parents, besides in The Pool, while Randall and Kate have gotten several. 

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, kat165 said:

Perhaps I am forgetting but did Kevin and Kate have a falling out? Why wasn't she on his list of people to visit/cry to about his insecurities about the play?

@NutMeg answered this better than I did, so I'll just add that when Kate shopping with Toby, I was kind of surprised not to see a moment when she turned off the phone, or chose not to answer, given that she always jumped to answer his call before.

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think it's a stretch that a group of middle-aged lounge singers would be booked for any tour, short of them being outstanding or with some sort of "catch."  Unless maybe a summer festival situation, or as openers at state or county fairs, but it's not summer.  Maybe someone with more music/entertainment life experience can set me straight, but this is kind of a hard sell for me. 

 

1 hour ago, luna1122 said:

My guy is in a few bands, and several of HIS friends are in other bands, and they're only a little younger than this band is supposed to be, I think. Occasionally, some of them go 'on tour', but what it really means, generally, is they've booked a few club gigs in other states, just for exposure and a new experience. It's not really a tour in any classic sense, just some new gigs in new places. Maybe that's what this is.

I was going to say the same. The music scene where I live is full of bands made up of people considerably older than Rebecca's band, the mister has been in a few. They have a lively circuit, and some of the top ones tour. So I didn't find that at all implausible - there are a lot of levels of touring bands. Even the geezers, like the mister and his band, who were once hired for a gig a couple of states over and paid an ungodly amount that was more than we'd ever seen. And they didn't even know the guy who hired them.

After saying that, it now occurs to me, Rebecca is not just indulging herself - she will actually be earning money. Maybe not a lot, but her tour will allow her to contribute financially to the household. So she is also helping the family.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Clanstarling

[ShadowFacts]

Thank you, luna1122 and Clanstarling, it's kind of great to learn that musicians around Rebecca's supposed age (45-ish?) can actually make good livings.

[Clanstarling]

I'd hesitate to say good living, though some of the more successful bands probably have a pretty decent income.The high paying gig I mentioned was an exception for our family.  But, nonetheless, Rebecca would be contributing some income to the family.