S02.E11: Turncoat

[scarynikki12]

Quote

When The Legends find a new Time Aberration they learn they must travel to the winter of 1776 to protect George Washington and the American Revolutionary War.

 

 

[Lantern7]

Damn. This might be the best episode yet. Or at least the one that screams "Legends" the loudest.

To review: The team saves America, but loses a Spear fragment to Rip. Jax and Stein have power issues. Ray renacts the embarrassing part from "The Talons of Weng-Chiang" (please let me know if I biffed the spelling). Sara dies again, and she's now on her fifth life. Nate & Amaya get hot. Amaya channels a seal, and the spirit makes a goofy noise when she channels it. Mick Rory reveals himself as a real American hero. Oh, and to kick it off? Mick does the narration bit. So cool. Who needs Malcolm and Damien?

[Advance35]

Ok I didn't think I would like it but gotta admit, though corny and cliche in parts of the execution, I actually thought Nate and Amaya were VERY cute.   I really like what she brings out of his character, prior to his interactions with her, I couldn't even picture him in a romance because of his dude/bro vibe, but when he and Amaya are one on one there is definitely chemistry there IMO.   The whole warm up and save from hypothermia made me roll my eyes and giggle, but they managed to have a very romantic vibe to the scene.  Especially in the follow up.  I also liked that it was an experiment in "Casual" for Amaya, you could tell it was more than that for Nate.   I've never seen a guy more NON "chill".   

I also thought this was a really good episode for Jax.  A nice amount of conflict in terms of Rip and his willingness to move forward with Rip as his perceived enemy.   I also continue to love the Brother/Sister vibe between Jax and Sara.

Mick is a treasure as always.

And I like bad Rip more than I ever enjoyed Good Rip.  Does that make me a bad person?

[NorthstarATL]

"Hitler ruins everything" made the entire season for me.

[Sakura12]

Sara's not a Canary she's a Cat.  

I loved this episode, Mick's narration was great. "who writes this crap" .  This had great moments for all of the team, except for Nate who is still the worst historian.

I liked that Jax is Sara's second in command since he's been her confidant. I liked seeing them celebrate Christmas and works on this show since they are outside the timeline. I also loved Sara protecting Jax from being a killer. It reminds me when Oliver did the same thing when he and Sara were on the island. Only he failed.  

Edited February 8, 2017 by Sakura12

[squidprincess]

How is brainwashed Rip Hunter the most effective member of the Legion of Doom by far?  Eobard must be wondering why he's even bothering with Darhk and Malcolm at this point.  Unless it's to keep Rip from deciding he should be in charge.

I loved the episode, but it was so hard to watch in some ways.

And honestly, I really hated the Nate and Amaya bits.  I mean, I might have thought they were cute if they weren't happening while other teammates were fighting for their lives.

[johntfs]

Of the four leads on the DC CW shows, Sara is clearly the best leader.

[bettername2come]

The entertainment to expectation ratio for this show is greater than any other. Enough so that I'm not even mad I forgot "This Is Us" was on at the same time and missed it. Mick Rory hugged General Washington, how can I not love this show?

[statsgirl]

There was good stuff (Mick!) but it was spoiled for me because one again, the British are terrible people and Americans are wonderful.  That overly simplistic version doesn't track if you don't live in the USA.  (The British did what the North did in the Civil War.)

12 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

And honestly, I really hated the Nate and Amaya bits.  I mean, I might have thought they were cute if they weren't happening while other teammates were fighting for their lives.

I hated it for that and because Nate is such a Mary Sue that it was obvious that he was going to get the only heterosexual girl on the ship.  So unearned.

I also was squicked out a bit by how affectionate Stein was to Sara.  You're married, guy.

I enjoyed last week much more..

Edited February 8, 2017 by statsgirl

[Sakura12]

I kind of saw Stein thinking of Sara as another daughter. 

Nate is still the most useless team member, I really hope we lose him instead of Amaya. Sara died while he was trying to get more sexy times. At least Amaya remembered that the world was in danger. 

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I also was squicked out a bit by how affectionate Stein was to Sara.  You're married, guy.

I thought it was a nice gesture because it felt like a father happy to see his daughter alive. I think after all this time, Stein probably sees Sara as his daughter. That's how I took the gesture. 

I enjoyed the episode for all it gave us. General George Washington and Mick Rory teaming up. Who would have thought? 

They really went all out on Evil Rip, which I appreciate. His brain is completely scrambled and they did rewire him, so to speak. I'm glad they stuck to it because we know they'll rescramble his brain back somehow and it'll all work out. I was just stunned that he killed Sara. Speaking of that scene, Franz sounded very British when he said "It's Sara", but it's surprisingly the first time I caught his accent slip noticeably for me.

Amaya/Nate was something I dreaded and I feel like it was tacked on in the middle of all this action, but I will say that they had enough chemistry for me not to hate it...I just hate the circumstances and how it kind of felt forced in this one episode where they introduced it. I'm willing to see where it goes, but it would have been nice if they just had Amaya curious about casual sex and then they could have done the deed either after the mission or at a later date. 

[Proteus]

I loathed Nate and Amaya.

Other than that, excellent episode.

Evil Rip is scary. He killed Sara.:( But AD is killing it.

I loved Ray and the rat.

Also loved Jax this eppy.

[kirinan]

6 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I also was squicked out a bit by how affectionate Stein was to Sara.  You're married, guy.

I saw it as how he might be with Lily, like a daughter. Nothing in the least sexual.

I have to say, I love the way this show has just celebrated its bonkers-ness these last few eps. I much prefer watching the team work together than the focus on the bad guys. 

Mick was definitely the MVP of this episode. Loved his narration at the beginning. It was so...Mick. His character arc continues to amaze me. What they managed to do with Snart, they're doing again with Mick. And Dominic Purcell plays the heck out of it.

[Sakura12]

I think Sara needs to start a support group for the people who have watched her die. 

This was a great Mick episode. He inspired George Washington. 

[benteen]

I loved this episode too.  I thought it was great.  They really embraced the batshit crazy nature of this show.  Redcoats with machine guns, saving George Washington (who fights!), Mick teaming up with him, etc.

Loved Mick's narration, which even topped Darhk's narration last week.  Mick and George Washington was not exactly a pairing that comes to mind but they got a lot out of it.  Loved that Mick has his own statue in DC.

Arthur Darvill is so much fun as a villain...he really knows how to throw himself into that.  He's definitely the most effective member of the Legion of Doom so far.

Strong episode for Jax.

Agreed that Stein looks at Sara like a daughter.

Nate and Amaya have very good chemistry together.

Really loved the Christmas scene at the end, even if it came a couple of weeks too late.

[Primal Slayer]

When they go back this far in time, it just makes me bored. I did enjoy the ending scene with them hanging out celebrating the holidays.

[bmoore4026]

Gideon, isn't it a bit hard to bring someone back from a broken neck?

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, bmoore4026 said:

Gideon, isn't it a bit hard to bring someone back from a broken neck?

Not if they brain activity still.

[Sakura12]

1 minute ago, bmoore4026 said:

Gideon, isn't it a bit hard to bring someone back from a broken neck?

I thought that too. They should've have just gone with Sara still has some LP water in her bloodstream and that's what brought her back to life. It's not like that's a crazier idea. 

[squidprincess]

Gideon's regrown limbs, so I suppose a broken neck isn't out of the question.  (It does raise the question of why she couldn't help conjure up some clotting factor for Nate back in JSA though.)

[bmoore4026]

3 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

Gideon's regrown limbs, so I suppose a broken neck isn't out of the question.  (It does raise the question of why she couldn't help conjure up some clotting factor for Nate back in JSA though.)

Gideon's response

Edited February 8, 2017 by bmoore4026

[bmoore4026]

Also, all this talk with Legion this and Legion that makes me wish they'd get on with introducing the Legion of Super-Heroes already.  I mean, they can't do the Titans, at least the famous ones, so just bring on the LSH.

[thuganomics85]

I was wondering if they would find a way to top Damien's voiceover from last week, but there they go and have Mick do it, in his normal crass, indifferent, and bullish way.  Well done, show!  A great Mick episode to say the least.  He got to hang with George Washington, ends up being the guy who taught him the "hide and pick off the Redcoats in the woods" approach, and now has a statue of himself in D.C.!  Mick Rory: the Hero America Needed!  Dominic Purcell is the gift that keeps on giving.  Again, I never would have predicted that Lincoln from Prison Break would this big of a scene stealer.

As much as I've been loving the Legion of Doom already, Evil Rip is just scary as hell, which is very refreshing.  Arthur Darvill is surprisingly menacing as a bad guy, despite not normally coming off like a physical threat.  Obviously, I figured they wouldn't kill Sara (again), but the way he broke her neck was ice-cold and disturbing.  Now, I'm sure this will end with him being cured, but I'm curious to see how this will change him and everyone else going forward.  Either way, I'm digging this twist a lot.

So, with Sara down for the count, its Jax's turn to be the Captain.  He did the best he could, but its interesting that he did the same exact thing she did by giving up something important to save a teammate's life.  In the long run, it could backfire on them horribly, but it does seems in character for most of the team.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't feel like there is anything inappropriate with the way Martin was interacting with Sara at all.  I feel like Victor Garber is playing it more as another daughter-like figure or someone he respects, and nothing else.  Hmm.

On the other hand, they are totally going there with Nate and Amaya.  Eh, I doubt it will be anywhere as horrible as Ray/Kendra was, but I'm not a fan.  Amaya could do better.

Love that the rat mention in the beginning ends up paying off with it chasing Little Ray through the air ducts.  And now Mick has it!  I wonder what he is going to name it!  

Another great one.  I think this is becoming my favorite of the DC shows, which I never would have predicted last season.

[Primal Slayer]

I hope they dont make Nate, into Mari's grandfather.

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

(The British did what the North did in the Civil War.)

Well, not really.  The North won in the Civil War.

[TDT]

Wonder if theyll actually expand the LoD by a few more members..supposedly Snart may reappear in the season finale and join up himself,as well as adding a female member or two to their side

[Lantern7]

This is me, from "Shogun":

On 10/27/2016 at 9:36 PM, Lantern7 said:

Brandon/Ray did the opening narration. I'm guessing we'll be getting different characters filling Rip's shoes. Can't wait for Mick's turn. Just 25 seconds of growling, followed by "Legends."

You have to admit, I was pretty close to what happened tonight. If anybody transcribed the narration, I'd like to look at it. Heh . . . "Time Pigs."

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

I hope they dont make Nate, into Mari's grandfather.

I hate the idea of Mari waking up and discovering she's a quarter-dork. Then again, time would "cement" in a way that she'd never know that, but I'd feel bad for her.

[Maverick]

 Wow, the Nate/Amaya stuff was just...there are no words.  Nate didn't have much in the positive column to begin with but that was straight up character assassination for Amaya.   She's been consistently portrayed as focusing on avenging the man she loved.   But hey, after a Cliff Notes intro to Tinder and casual sex she decides 'hey, a roll in the sack with my team mate's grandson is totes cool.'  I mean what, did she summon up a dog in heat?   The whole thing was bad enough on it's on, but then that have this foolishness going on during a crisis.  The ship's incapacitated, as is half the team.   They're being stalked by a former ally who knows them inside and out and their current mission to ensure America is still born.   Yeah, totally the setup for sexytimes.  Nate deserved to be bittchslapped back to the Stone Age for suggesting 'hey, do we have time for another go?'.    What's a worthless douchebag.   

[Mellowyellow]

1 hour ago, Proteus said:

 

I loved Ray and the rat.

 

Like an actual rat?

I ADORE Ray but Ray and animals is going to make me totally squeeeeeeee

[Lokiberry]

Damn, maybe they should have cast AD as Vandal Savage last season. He's a helluva lot more menacing than Caspar Crump. This Evil Rip story is awesome! Eobard doesn't even need the other two jokers with him around. I hope they save him at the end, and he doesn't have to die tragically to save the team or something cliched like that ( unless AD has another role lined up, because Peter Capaldi IS leaving Doctor Who, and I've long had  this fantasy that the Doctor regenerates into a familiar face).

Let me join the chorus of what an amazing gift Mick has turned out to be. Everything he touches turns to gold, and every character interaction he has just shines. I'm also with Lantern7 about Ray getting chased by a giant rat ala Talons. That was such a fun touch, and Mick gets a pet!

The only sour note was Nate and Amaya getting it on while they were supposed to be rescuing Washington and Mick. That was unnecessary.

Other than that, this was a fantastic episode. This show has been firing on all cylinders lately.

[Proteus]

19 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Like an actual rat?

I ADORE Ray but Ray and animals is going to make me totally squeeeeeeee

LOL, if you didn't see it yet don't let this thread spoil you.

[Cthulhudrew]

This episode had a lot of silliness (Ray and a rat?) and stupidity (Amaya and Nate decide to have sex in the middle of a crisis?), but the opening narration by Mick and George Washington headbutting a redcoat mostly made up for it. Seriously, they need to have that be the new opener for this show. "Half the time we screw things up even worse." Good to see someone involved with this show acknowledge it. lol

And also? Nick and Amaya. Bleh. She has much more chemistry with Ray and especially with Mick than she ever has with Nate.

"Who writes this crap, anyway?" - Mick "Heat Wave" Rory.

[Jediknight]

Mick's an American hero.  Boy, if they ever cross paths with Kara again, she's going to be shocked.  Everything Mick was great this episode, the narration, the friendship with George Washington, and who knew he was a big fan of Ben Franklin.

Ray still being his complete dork self is always welcome.  And thanks to him, we know the Legends have a chore wheel.  Also nice touch at the end with Ray and Mick being the only ones to wear paper crowns.

[Cthulhudrew]

On another note, maybe it's just because Maisie Richardson-Sellers reminds me of someone I know, but when I watch her onscreen, I feel like the Amaya she plays is a character that I really want to get to know better. It's just not the same character the writers are writing (and badly underutilizing). 

They need to step up their game. And pairing her with Nate is not what I mean.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Cthulhudrew

[rubyred]

Nate/Amaya surprised me. I thought they were hinting towards a Mick/Amaya pairup, which I thought had intriguing possibilities. But I didn't mind their chemistry -- at least they had some. And it was the first time I found Nate the least bit charming. But it was definitely jarring for sexytimes to be going on whilst everyone else was fighting for America and/or their lives.

Wow, Evil!Rip is sooo much better than Hero!Rip, and restores my faith in Arthur Darvill's talent. I knew he had it in him, I couldn't figure out why he was such a charisma vacuum in season 1. Really enjoying how the show has found its legs and just goes bonkers at full speed.

[Starfish35]

I don't mind the Nate/Amaya pairing, but time and place, guys!  

That was really the only complaint I had about an otherwise stellar episode.  Looooved Mick's intro.  He was pretty much the hero of this story.  Sara is turning into a great leader (although please tell me that wasn't foreshadowing when Jax said "she wasn't supposed to die like that").  And AD does a great evil Rip. :)

[Artsda]

I loved this episode, only thing is that it felt like it should have aired in December.

[BkWurm1]

12 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I don't mind the Nate/Amaya pairing, but time and place, guys!  

That was really the only complaint I had about an otherwise stellar episode.  Looooved Mick's intro.  He was pretty much the hero of this story.  Sara is turning into a great leader (although please tell me that wasn't foreshadowing when Jax said "she wasn't supposed to die like that").  And AD does a great evil Rip. :)

The show runners would be insane to kill off Sara. (I mean for good this time) I'm not worried.

Stein's second crack at surgery.  I loved how nervous he was with Sara but how casual he was when it was JUST brain surgery on Mick, lol.  

I really love AD as Rip and I don't care if he's good, bad, or Phil, I've loved him on this show (which blows my mind given how indifferent to annoyed I was with him on Dr. Who. ) Loved how out of everyone, he kept going back to kill Sara IMO because Sara was the only one he really saw as a threat.  

I do hope Rip survives and gets his brain back to normal even if we don't get to keep him on the show.  

Nate and Amaya surprised me since it turned out that she was the one looking for chill rather than Nate.  Nate still bugs me.  As does the random and very handy abandoned tent and the very lax attitude they had toward the mission.  I know it was only Mick and some brainwashed guy they had no loyalty to, but what about poor Washington?  Even if they didn't care about the other guys, they should have been more motivated to fix history.  They didn't know he wasn't going to get hanged 'til dawn.  

Note to Sara, Nate makes other team members dumber.  

[Ariah]

Damn, Evil!Rip is hot! Who would have thought?

Can't we have this cold-blooded Rip as a Legend, alongside Sara and the gang? I dread, once his stint on the Legion of Doom is finished, we'll end up with one of these possible outcomes:

1. "I can't live with what I did when I was evil" Rip sacrificing himself and dying
2. "I can't be around the people I love and hurt" Rip leaving the team forever

I love Arthur and would like to keep him around, so neither of these options pleases me. I'd rather have the team accept him and tease him about his evil shenanigans: "Remember when you broke my neck?" "Hey, people who shot General Washington don't have a say in that" "All those who never sided with an evil speedster, step up"

- - -

Anyhow, amusing 43 minutes of campy fun. Right now, among all those DC shows, this one entertains me the most. The best ensamble, everybody has their moments (even the bad guys) and the show does not shy from tropiness. The "Let's have sex to warm you up" scene was so tv tropes... I agree that Nate did not deserve that (I still didn't warm up - pun intended - to Ray 2.0) but I hope we will be spared drama in the future episodes. I'm burned after Hawks.

- - -

Did I mentioned how I loved an effective villain? Rip went straight for Sara and then immobilized the rest of the team. Ok, sara did say in the end that he picked his crew well, but... Nope. The Legends survived, but didn't win. Washington was never a target, just a diversion, so the villain got the upper hand. Way to go, Evil!Rip.

- - -

Stein's "I'm a physicist not a doctor!" cracked me up.

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

The show runners would be insane to kill off Sara. (I mean for good this time) I'm not worried.

I know! And I know I'm insane to even worry, but somehow when he said it I just had a cold rush of fear.  Lol!

1 hour ago, Ariah said:

The "Let's have sex to warm you up" scene was so tv tropes.

It so was.  I was like "wait they're actually doing this?  How many fanfics have I seen this scenario in?"

[Richness]

I almost always skip the opening narration on the DC CW shows, so damn them for making me listen to it two episodes in a row. It was mostly about Mick this episode, but he isn't that appealing to me. However, I loved everyone saying "it was implied" that they were saving him too. "I'm a physicist not a doctor!" was also cheesy homage goodness, though this is the second episode in a row he's been one.

Otherwise, I continue to dislike Jax. Sorry, but he's the weak link in the show for me, even more so than the Colossus clone. Something about the actor and character just grates on my nerves. And while I've loved Rip in the last few episodes, I really don't want the boring guy from the first season to return. Sara is just so much better as Captain. Actually, Sara is just so much better. Period.

[Starfish35]

Sara's amazing. :)

[Jediknight]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

Sara's amazing. :)

Her soul mate is even better.  I know Katrina Law's busy, but Nyssa needs to pop up in an episode.

[cambridgeguy]

Maybe that will teach the team to wear some armor under their fancy period clothes. 

[squidprincess]

6 hours ago, Ariah said:

Damn, Evil!Rip is hot! Who would have thought?

Can't we have this cold-blooded Rip as a Legend, alongside Sara and the gang? I dread, once his stint on the Legion of Doom is finished, we'll end up with one of these possible outcomes:

1. "I can't live with what I did when I was evil" Rip sacrificing himself and dying
2. "I can't be around the people I love and hurt" Rip leaving the team forever

I love Arthur and would like to keep him around, so neither of these options pleases me. I'd rather have the team accept him and tease him about his evil shenanigans: "Remember when you broke my neck?" "Hey, people who shot General Washington don't have a say in that" "All those who never sided with an evil speedster, step up"

I really doubt we'll see Rip die or leave the team forever.  (Though it wouldn't surprise me if he tried one of the two options.)

If they just wanted to write Arthur Darvill out for good, they could have easily done it earlier.  Instead, it really seems like they put the entire metaplot on hold for his other commitments.

The first half of the season was fun, but in a way, it reminded me of the first season of Agents of SHIELD before the HYDRA reveal.  Fun team dynamics, interesting standalone episodes, but very little movement on the metaplot.  Then finally, Winter Soldier comes out and the series blasts ahead full steam.  This season has been the same way.  Only JSA, Compromised and Chicago Way had any real movement on the metaplot.  Shogun, Abominations, and Outlaw Country were complete filler (albeit fun filler that let us explore group dynamics and Sara's growing leadership role.)    There's no real reason that some of those episodes couldn't have been cut or consolidated for a greater sense of momentum.

We had eight episodes pass where the team was barely aware of the metaplot at all: with no idea of the stakes, the McGuffin, , or half of the players involved.  Then we get Rip back, and the metaplot explodes.  We get more movement in two episodes than the entire first half of the season combined.  That feels intentional to me.  And I could always be wrong, but I don't think a show would do that for a character/actor if they were planning to jettison him at the end of the season.

[darkestboy]

Loved it. Two months too late for a Christmas episode but this was so worth it though.

Mick's opening narration was hysterical along with the decision to pair him up with George Washington for the majority of the episode. It certainly paid off though.

Rip is definitely one to watch as a baddie though. He very nearly finished Sara off for good and he got the other bit of the Spear of Destiny too. Eobard might have been too successful with his brainwashing here.

Ray getting chased by a rat while small was also a rather funny moments and I did love Jax taking command when Sara couldn't. Stein was a little underused this week though.

Not keen on the whole Nate/Amaya romance though. Felt rushed in parts to me.

Did love the gang celebrating Christmas aboard the Waverider at the end of this one, 9/10

[benteen]

3 hours ago, Jediknight said:

Her soul mate is even better.  I know Katrina Law's busy, but Nyssa needs to pop up in an episode.

I think Sara is better but Nyssa is pretty awesome too.  Yes, an appearance by her is long overdue.

[Starfish35]

I love Nyssa, but I don't consider her to be Sara's soulmate.  

[scarynikki12]

I really want to know what Mick was going to tell Georgie about the criminal justice system. 

I was both pleased and saddened that only Sara and Amaya specifically mentioned saving Mick.  The other guys insisted that it was implied, and I'm sure they would have if they'd been there, but the omission was glaring.  Especially since they would have made a point of saying the name of any other team member in that same situation.

Nate finally did something I liked!  He threw in Hamilton as being super important to the Revolution and founding of America when they were talking up Washington.  Then he threw it away later with Amaya but it still happened.

[Sakura12]

I think Rip going for the kill with Sara showed he considers her the biggest threat on the team. And now like most others he saw how hard it is to actually kill her. 

Even when he was Captain, it was Sara that held the team together.