S02.E01: Safe / S02.E02: Doors & Corners

[catray]

Season 2 premiere! Double header.

Quote

Miller (Thomas Jane), Holden (Steven Strait) and the crew of the Roci deal with the aftermath of their narrow escape from Eros. We meet Martian Marine Gunnery Sergeant Bobbie Draper (Frankie Adams) and her platoon when the "Cuban Missile Crisis" between Earth and Mars heats up.

[sjohnson]

Making gestures towards real-world physics made this space battle much more intense and exciting, competitive with a Star Wars budget and a giant screen with a theater sound system. At least it did for me. 

Scripting such an easy murder for Fred Johnson was to my eyes clearly the writers trying to make us hard for the character. As for the dueling psycho routine between Miller and Amos, I haven't been able to muster a scrap of sympathy for the view that a pure and chaste love is the best love, or that it is a real motive, or, least of all, that its purity redeems a kill-crazy thug. Naomi at least has the good taste to prefer screwing Holden. But approving Amos' shenanigans seems awfully self-serving. And allegedly being a principled pacifist repelled by OPA's evil revolutionary ways who just happens to have a conscienceless killer devoted to her so that she can safely waive her pacifist principles for a well-deserved exception does not make her a strong woman. I think the show plainly means to tell us she's stronger than everybody else from the Canterbury. But to me it seems like they're inadvertently showing she's not, which leaves being hot as her real defining character trait. 

Obviously not every one feels that contorting plots so that the coolest heroes just have to kill somebody to save us is little than rightwing PC. I guess this is why Alan Sepinwall decided the show is getting better.

Edited February 2, 2017 by sjohnson

[mjc570]

That was great.  I loved every minute of it, and appreciated that it was easy to pick up from last season.  I'm glad to see that Miller still has a pretty prominent role (love his snark), and I thought it did a wonderful job of meshing the various story lines into a cohesive whole.  Also, it looked super realistic, and I liked the occasional touches (like the gravity) that reminds us that it is actually set in space.

[Danny Franks]

Really good opening to the second season. A perfect reintroduction to everything I like about the show. Politics, interpersonal tension, cool as balls space battles.

I liked how they depicted Miller trying to integrate into the crew. Not sure of his place, but bonding with Holden and Naomi, while learning that Amos is not to be messed with. It was necessary for them to have that scene where he thinks to get vengeance for Sematimba, and again the writers and Wes Chatham are nailing it with Amos' blankness and utter lack of emotion when it comes to violence.

The thread with Alex wanting to help the Eros survivors, and his den mother dinner night, were nice developments for his character, and I appreciated the splashes of humour through it. The show does need lighter moments like that, and just one or two characters who are uniformly likeable. Alex seems to be one such.

Naomi and Holden? I felt it was a bit rushed. Hot, but rushed. And I hope that some of the precursor stuff that was in the book is added after the fact, to flesh their dynamic out a bit more. But as individual characters, they both worked well in these episodes. Naomi seems to be the one who everyone else gets on with, and she's using that to iron out the wrinkles amongst the crew. Holden still hasn't really had time to stop and think about anything, and at the very least, the airlock sex will have let them both blow off some much needed steam.

I loved Bobbie Draper. The actress was a bit one-note, but then she is playing a disciplined, no-nonsense military figure. But they showed us both her jingoistic passion and the gentler, more idealistic vision of what she wants Mars to be.

The episodes did a very efficient job of sketching out the mounting tension between Earth and Mars, with the Belt not quite figuring in just yet. But if those two superpowers go to war, the Belt will be crushed between them. Which is what Fred Johnson cares about most, I guess. And why he wanted to get to the bottom of Eros and Phoebe. I think he would have taken up Dresden's offer, if Miller hadn't been there to answer. Though I don't think Holden would have stood for it either.

Loved seeing the Roci in action again, and the visuals of the PDC rounds tearing through the ship, missing various people by inches, were amazing. The crew is starting to work well together, although this made it look a bit like Alex was doing everything, which wasn't the case in the books. But they will need to carry out a bit of repair work before their next excursion.

[Jimmy McNulty]

Solid start, although these 2 episodes could have been the end of the first season.

Kept waiting for Bobbie's story to materialize before I realized that the show is still finishing up Book 1.

[Haleth]

Doors and corners!  That's where they get you. 

Loved it!

[rozen]

 Fred Johnson's actor seems like he's low-key channeling Vincent D'Onofrio's take on the Kingpin. He's like a walking grenade with the pin half pulled. He seems like a man desperate for redemption, so I have to grudgingly accept that Miller shooting first and asking no questions was probably the best choice before Johnson took Ebil Scientist out of gun-range permanently. That scene was a perfect example of why having a bunch of guns and minimal brains is always a bad idea. Hand back the entire data processing center with no restrictions? Are you stupid? The man probably could probably seal himself in a bunker and emergency call in a fleet of stealth ships in the time it takes to sneer "Earther". 

I love how Johnson just stood there, slack-jawed, staring at Miller while he fired a few more rounds into the corpse for good measure. Crazy, meet other crazy. Shit, Amos should watch his 6, because I'm pretty sure Miller is just waiting for an opportunity to blow his brains out, too. That's a guy who takes his Arya Stark murder list very seriously. 

Not interested in Naomi and Holden, but I suppose they made it almost a dozen episodes since the last 'sex in spaaaaaaaaaaaace' scene, so I can't get too irritated. The actors have almost negative chemistry though. Amos is supposed to be her murderous adopted son, but they honestly make more sense together to me. I never read the books, so I don't know what Naomi is supposed to be like. But the fact she is so...perpetually unphased by Amos's attempted murders and the carnage around her while keeping a jolly personality to get on with everyone is perturbing. Makes me think she's crazier than all of them if she has to roll up her sleeves and take care of things herself. 

Jingoistic, head strong arrogant Martian hurtling towards Earth. Perfect spark for the current powder keg. Excited to see what comes next. 

Edited February 3, 2017 by rozen

[thuganomics85]

The Expanse is back!  I've been missing this show and looking forward to seeing where this goes next!

Glad that it looks like we will be following this Mars crew too, since I'm curious to learn more about them and their culture.  Bobbie Draper is pretty badass and I'm looking forward to seeing more of her.  Never heard of this Frankie Adams actress, but she seems to be a pretty good fit so far.  I did like that the rest of the crew was filled by some of those "Hey, it's that Canadian actor!", like Mpho Koaho (Falling Skies), Sarah Allen (Nikita), and Dewhane Williams (Defiance). 

Still, it's the Roci crew that I'm really glad to see again.  I love all four of them and all the craziness each one brings, and now Miller unofficially being part of it has made things even more insane.  Not surprised that he and Amos would clash; even less surprising that Amos would be Miller's ass in a one on one fight.  But I think my favorite scene of the entire episode was the dinner scene, and just all of them laughing and enjoying each other's company.  I love the little family they have become and I'm curious to see if Miller will fit in, especially after the final scene.

I did think Holden/Naomi was rushed though.  I remember hints about something going on between them in past episodes, but them already hooking up is a pretty big step.  Of course, like with any show, I suspect something will happen that put that on pause.  Probably something to with Amos if/when he finds out.  As long as it isn't Holden getting spaced without a helmet!

Poor Alex.  He just wants to help people, but they just keep dying.

Took me a second to place the guy who was annoying Miller.  He was the kid that was moving asteroids with his uncle, they got harassed by Mars folks, and then his uncle spaced them, and drove their ship into Mars' ship.  Interesting how various characters keep popping back up.

It was so obvious that Fred was going to space the guy trying to make a move on him.  Really, the guy was an idiot to turn his back on him.  Fred is not someone to fuck around.  Chad L. Coleman is still bringing it!

Still a little bit confused with some of Chrisjen's stuff, but I think I'm getting a better handle.  Basically, she knows Sadavir/Shawn Doyle is dirty and was likely the one who blew up her ship making it look like the OPA, but she is playing along for now, but is trying to get a message to Fred, in order to go against him and prevent war.  Loved seeing Nick E. Tarabay (Ashur!) as the spy she is working with, even though I'll never fully trust him (because, again, he was Ashur!)  Also spotted Byron Mann as one of the generals.  Weird seeing him in a role where he isn't kicking ass or trying to teach Oliver Queen how not to get himself killed!

So, I'm guessing Miller killed the scientist because he believes no one should have that knowledge/power?  And he pretty much doomed him and Holden since they're still sick, right?  This is going to cause some trouble!

Welcome back, show!

[Mars477]

Who is Fred Johnson's female adjundant?  She has a good command voice.

Avarsala is the best.  And I can't wait to have more Bobbie.

[Elentari]

Is it me or is the portray of Bobbie Draper really bad? She seems way to angry and full of hate for some reason and the actor I thought would be more jacked.

[Mars477]

4 minutes ago, Elentari said:

Is it me or is the portray of Bobbie Draper really bad? She seems way to angry and full of hate for some reason and the actor I thought would be more jacked.

I didn't think so.  It's a nice set up for a woman who should eventually be (book spoilers)

BFFs with the de facto leader of Earth

.

And yeah, the description of Bobbie Draper in the books is one of those things that doesn't really work on screen with a real woman in today's society.  But the actress is super tall for a woman, and super jacked as is.  She's never supposed to be a body builder, as Holden (who, granted, is Holden) describes her as a "Polynesian beach bunny blown up 150%" and it's made clear in no uncertain terms that men find her attractive.

[Elentari]

3 minutes ago, Mars477 said:

I didn't think so.  It's a nice set up for a woman who should eventually be (book spoilers)

  Hide contents

BFFs with the de facto leader of Earth

.

And yeah, the description of Bobbie Draper in the books is one of those things that doesn't really work on screen with a real woman in today's society.  But the actress is super tall for a woman, and super jacked as is.  She's never supposed to be a body builder, as Holden (who, granted, is Holden) describes her as a "Polynesian beach bunny blown up 150%" and it's made clear in no uncertain terms that men find her attractive.

I guess Ill see how this plays out, books are always better :p  After reading the lastest book, I liked the ending with you know who getting a job.

[Danny Franks]

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Took me a second to place the guy who was annoying Miller.  He was the kid that was moving asteroids with his uncle, they got harassed by Mars folks, and then his uncle spaced them, and drove their ship into Mars' ship.  Interesting how various characters keep popping back up.

He's also the kid that Miller busted for illegally siphoning water on Ceres, right back at the beginning of the show. It's a small solar system. But I do think it's fun when people turn up repeatedly, especially when they're as positive and enthusiastic as Diogo (I think that's his name).

I liked Johnson's second in command as well. Good voice, good look. Not sure about the name yet, because some people think she's one character from the books, some think she's another.

Quote

And yeah, the description of Bobbie Draper in the books is one of those things that doesn't really work on screen with a real woman in today's society.  But the actress is super tall for a woman, and super jacked as is.  She's never supposed to be a body builder, as Holden (who, granted, is Holden) describes her as a "Polynesian beach bunny blown up 150%" and it's made clear in no uncertain terms that men find her attractive.

Yep. This is the real world problem with converting books to the screen. In a book, you don't have to worry about realistic human depictions or about your budget. I think Frankie Adams looks the part of a badass soldier, even if she's not quite as imposing as she is in the books. 

[Haleth]

I thought she did great, being all bad ass but vulnerable (wistful?) when it came to her home.  I know the description in the books but when reading I couldn't help but picture Brienne of Tarth.

And on another shallow note, I covet Shohreh Aghdashloo's wardrobe.  They nearly blew the budget on those gorgeous fabrics.

[marinw]

13 hours ago, Haleth said:

I thought she did great, being all bad ass but vulnerable (wistful?) when it came to her home.  I know the description in the books but when reading I couldn't help but picture Brienne of Tarth.

 

This!  I am glad to see such a powerfully built woman in this role. Also liked that we get a bit more of a look at Martian society.

I liked the political machination back at the UN on Earth. Trying to figure out what Mars is up to when you can't just ask them.

I also liked Tycho station. I really appreciate how all the stations look different, some are richer and better run than others.

So much to unpack with these two episodes. Overall, it's nice to see a future that is neither a post apocalyptic wasteland or glittering Utopia.

Edited February 4, 2017 by marinw

[marinw]

One more thing: Was that a Fed Ex logo I saw on the Trojon Container?

[Haleth]

Yes, it was!  I laughed at that.

[raven]

19 hours ago, marinw said:

Overall, it's nice to see a future that is neither a post apocalyptic wasteland or glittering Utopia.

I agree, there is a lot that feels real about it, right down to the Earth/Mars/Belt conflicts.

I thought it was a good season premiere, picking up where we left off and jumping right into what's going on.   I wish I felt a bit more of the "small family" loyalty with both Holden and crew (thought the med lab scene with Holden and Miller was a good one) and also with Bobbie's unit.   I'd like to see more of Naomi being the intelligent engineer that she is - we see some of it, but it's background.  I remember Alex saying the reason they can fly the Roci is because Naomi is so good at what she does.  These are minor complaints as I like the casting pretty much overall and there is a lot of ground to cover. 

I don't have too much issue with Amos slamming Miller around because Amos, in his way, was trying to explain what happened.  I get why Miller was pissed off but he really have should let it go; the guy did pull a gun on Naomi.   I enjoy Miller anyway and you could really see the different emotions on his face when the scientist was going on about the protomolecule blah blah and slowly convincing everyone to let him live.  Miller was having none of that, LOL.

I liked Holden telling Miller his room on the Roci would be waiting for him when he got back - that's Holden to a T and that kind of action is one of my favorite things about him.

I enjoy watching Avasarala work the room and also think her wardrobe is gorgeous, as is her hair.   I think the show is doing a nice job of showing the Earth/Mars tension and could feel her frustration with everyone wanting to strike back. 

[marinw]

Not much traffic on this forum. If this show was on Netflix or HBO I think we would be on page three of comments by now.

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, marinw said:

Not much traffic on this forum. If this show was on Netflix or HBO I think we would be on page three of comments by now.

Yeah. I think SyFy is a brand without a whole lot of cachet to it. Their own fault, given the garbage output they've generated over the last few years. But if this show was on a 'prestige' channel, more people would be watching it, that's for sure. 

It's a real shame that this show isn't catching the eye, even with consistently good reviews and recommendations. Hopefully SyFy will be more interested in the long term rehabilitation of their name, and stick with it.

[KaleyFirefly]

I'm on book 4 now so when I was watching this I had to try to remember what had happened in book 2. I liked this 2-ep premiere and I like Miller hanging out with the Roci crew. Miller's shooting of the scientist at the end was perfect and totally in character for him -- one piece of his revenge for Julie Mao.

[phoenyx]

Just finished watching this double episode, good stuff :-). I got hooked on this in the first season, glad to see the start of the new one. I didn't even know the series was based off of novels, already put a hold in at the library for the first book. 

[xaxat]

I thought it was a great episode. I think the most impressive thing is that, as complicated as this show is, they managed to lay out each characters/faction's allies and rivals and the motivation for their actions.  I'm intrigued by Draper. Christian throwing the other UN official the option of bombing Deimos was a subtle indicator that she's playing chess amongst a group of checkers players. And it had the most exciting space battle since the liberation of New Caprica. (So happy Alex got to blow the hell out the stealth ship.) 

2 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Yeah. I think SyFy is a brand without a whole lot of cachet to it. Their own fault, given the garbage output they've generated over the last few years.

I agree that the Syfy brand probably has something to do with it. But they have really upped the overall quality of the network over the last 3-5 years. Gone are the crappy movies and incessant ghost hunter shows. Replaced by solid shows like Continuum, Dark Matter, good shows like 12 Monkeys and The Magicians, and a great show in The Expanse. 

(I'll give you Aftermath. That show was garbage.)

[AlliMo]

It's definitely a much different experience having watched season 1 never having read any of the books, and starting this season having gone through the entire series. That being said, I'm enjoying where they're going with this. I hope SyFy sticks with it, even though it must be terribly expensive, because it's just gorgeous.

[Cosmosgravitation]

7 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Yeah. I think SyFy is a brand without a whole lot of cachet to it. Their own fault, given the garbage output they've generated over the last few years. But if this show was on a 'prestige' channel, more people would be watching it, that's for sure. 

It's a real shame that this show isn't catching the eye, even with consistently good reviews and recommendations. Hopefully SyFy will be more interested in the long term rehabilitation of their name, and stick with it.

Netflix bought the global rights to stream the Expanse, and Amazon has the rights in the United States, so there are probably significantly more people that watch the show than the Syfy ratings would suggest.  

Other forums have a lot more traffic for the show too.  Reddit's discussion thread about the first two episodes of this season has well over a thousand comments, more than a lot of popular shows get over there.  Not sure if it's just a demographic thing with previously tv or what.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Cosmosgravitation

[WearyTraveler]

I really liked these two episodes.  It was a lot easier to follow the stories this time around; and I thought that I wouldn't remember much from last season unless I watched it again.  But, it turned out I didn't need to do that.

I think they fixed whatever problems they were having with sound mixing last year, as well; as I didn't miss a single line of dialogue and the background noises and soundtracks did not overpower anyone.  Also, a lot more light has been brought in, which was great.  Last year, there was a lot squinting and monitor adjustment on my part before I could see what was happening.

I haven't read the books, so, quick question for the book readers:  how long before these three societies (Earth, Mars, Belt) realise they have to stand together against whoever it was that sent the protomolecule to take over Earth?

Edited February 5, 2017 by WearyTraveler

[marinw]

On 2/4/2017 at 10:30 PM, xaxat said:

I agree that the Syfy brand probably has something to do with it. But they have really upped the overall quality of the network over the last 3-5 years. Gone are the crappy movies and incessant ghost hunter shows. Replaced by solid shows like Continuum, Dark Matter, good shows like 12 Monkeys and The Magicians, and a great show in The Expanse. 

(I'll give you Aftermath. That show was garbage.)

Also, remember that SyFy (or Space in Canada) also brought us the rebooted Battlestar Galactica, the show to which The Expanse is often compared. Personally I like The Expanse better because it is a bit less hopeless.

On 2/5/2017 at 7:58 AM, WearyTraveler said:

I think they fixed whatever problems they were having with sound mixing last year, as well; as I didn't miss a single line of dialogue and the background noises and soundtracks did not overpower anyone. 

Good point. The fact that I didn't notice the sound problem means TPTB have fixed it. The overall look of the show is georgeous and matches any feature film IMHO.

Edited February 6, 2017 by marinw

[Netfoot]

3 minutes ago, marinw said:

The fact that I didn't notice the sound problem means TPTB have fixed it.

I watched Season 1 carefully, and never found there to be anything wrong with the sound.  So, the difficulties others have reported must come from somewhere other than the original source material.

[Haleth]

2 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

I haven't read the books, so, quick question for the book readers:  how long before these three societies (Earth, Mars, Belt) realise they have to stand together against whoever it was that sent the protomolecule to take over Earth?

It's complicated.  :)

[WearyTraveler]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

It's complicated.  :)

All right, I guess I´ll head over to Wikipedia, then.  I don't mind being spoiled, and although I'd much rather read the books, if the series is not completed, I will not start it.  Blame George RR Martin for that.

[raven]

4 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

I don't mind being spoiled, and although I'd much rather read the books, if the series is not completed, I will not start it.  Blame George RR Martin for that.

Responded in book thread :)

[Danny Franks]

6 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

All right, I guess I´ll head over to Wikipedia, then.  I don't mind being spoiled, and although I'd much rather read the books, if the series is not completed, I will not start it.  Blame George RR Martin for that.

I wouldn't worry about that as much with these guys. They put out six books in five years, and expect to be releasing the seventh before the end of 2017. They'll probably get this whole series finished before GRRM gets his next book out.

[ribboninthesky1]

On 2/3/2017 at 0:11 AM, rozen said:

Not interested in Naomi and Holden, but I suppose they made it almost a dozen episodes since the last 'sex in spaaaaaaaaaaaace' scene, so I can't get too irritated. The actors have almost negative chemistry though. Amos is supposed to be her murderous adopted son, but they honestly make more sense together to me. I never read the books, so I don't know what Naomi is supposed to be like. But the fact she is so...perpetually unphased by Amos's attempted murders and the carnage around her while keeping a jolly personality to get on with everyone is perturbing.

Supposedly, she is afraid of Amos (or perhaps that was left behind in season 1), but she certainly doesn't act like it.  And yes, the two actors have better chemistry, though I'm fine with their friendship. 

I wasn't planning to watch this season, given how disappointed I was in the last half of season one.  But I really want to like the show.  I'm still ambivalent, mainly because I always want (or mentally will Amos) to punch Miller and/or Holden in the face whenever they're onscreen.  They're the least interesting characters for me.  I kept wondering when Miller got military training, but I guess cop is shorthand for military training in this world. I probably wouldn't have questioned it if I liked Miller. 

And I know that Avasarsala is supposed to be ten steps ahead of everyone else, but almost being killed takes the edge off.  She IS smug, and it makes me appreciate the character less.  I'm glad the (former) Admiral openly expressed his disdain. He's also trying to playing chess, but that council is too busy being played like a fiddle by Errinwright and Mao. At some point, you have to step away for your own sanity, and he did just that. 

I think there was some middle ground between murdering the lead scientist guy and giving him carte blanche to resume his "work," but unfortunately, we'll never know what that might have been because Miller is in love with some woman he never met.  Whatevs. 

Edited February 6, 2017 by ribboninthesky1

[gibasi]

I have been a fan of science fiction for a very long time.  But I don't know if I want to go on with this. No one else seemed to have a problem picking up the story but I didn't remember much of the previous season and definitely not any of the details.  I don't remember the relationship between Holden and the lady on Earth.  I don't even remember most of the characters' names.  I had to go to Wikipedia.  It is probably my problem but I am not too interested in the politics of this fictional world.  I like the ethical questions that come up but the politics and alliances?  No.  

I haven't seen the episode yet.  I started but could not follow it since I didn't remember much.  I came here for a refresher and see that everyone just jumped back in with no problems.  I guess it is just me then.

[call me ishmael]

3 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

I think there was some middle ground between murdering the lead scientist guy and giving him carte blanche to resume his "work," but unfortunately, we'll never know what that might have been because Miller is in love with some woman he never met.  Whatevs. 

I'm not convinced that he killed him because he was in love with Julie.  I think that first he didn't trust that anyone would be able to control the scientist who was so fanatic that he was happy to experiment on a space station filled with people (and I mean happy) and second I don't think Miller wanted Fred Johnson to control whatever weapon might be developed out of it.  The scientist (assuming he was being honest, I think Mao wanted the protomolecule just for power) was assuming that it had been fired as a weapon, that it was the first stage of an invasion, that they needed to weaponize it in order to survive the invasion etc.  That is a lot of assumptions to let something that has clearly been used to assassinate a large numbers of belters to just continue on.  And if the scientist was the only one who could access it what control would they really have?

[AnnaMayWong]

4 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

Supposedly, she is afraid of Amos (or perhaps that was left behind in season 1), but she certainly doesn't act like it.  And yes, the two actors have better chemistry, though I'm fine with their friendship. 

I wasn't planning to watch this season, given how disappointed I was in the last half of season one.  But I really want to like the show.  I'm still ambivalent, mainly because I always want (or mentally will Amos) to punch Miller and/or Holden in the face whenever they're onscreen.  They're the least interesting characters for me.  I kept wondering when Miller got military training, but I guess cop is shorthand for military training in this world. I probably wouldn't have questioned it if I liked Miller. 

And I know that Avasarsala is supposed to be ten steps ahead of everyone else, but almost being killed takes the edge off.  She IS smug, and it makes me appreciate the character less.  I'm glad the (former) Admiral openly expressed his disdain. He's also trying to playing chess, but that council is too busy being played like a fiddle by Errinwright and Mao. At some point, you have to step away for your own sanity, and he did just that. 

I think there was some middle ground between murdering the lead scientist guy and giving him carte blanche to resume his "work," but unfortunately, we'll never know what that might have been because Miller is in love with some woman he never met.  Whatevs. 

Agree with ALL of your perspectives/sentiments/comments.

[AngelKitty]

I finally got to watch this last night and I'm so glad I only watched the first season a few weeks ago because I'm a little confused about the political stuff although I love it and eventually I'll figure it out. I'm just not sure why Mao wants a war between Earth and Mars.

I'm presently reading The Saga of the Seven Suns and the belters remind me of the Roamers.

[ribboninthesky1]

11 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

I'm not convinced that he killed him because he was in love with Julie.  I think that first he didn't trust that anyone would be able to control the scientist who was so fanatic that he was happy to experiment on a space station filled with people (and I mean happy) and second I don't think Miller wanted Fred Johnson to control whatever weapon might be developed out of it.

Having recently watched the first season, I never got the sense Miller cared much about Belters until he started investigating Julie's disappearance.  She seemed to inspire him out of his indifference and lethargy.  I just don't think he would have cared as much about what about happened on Eros if Julie hadn't been the catalyst, especially contrasted against characters like Holden or Naomi or Alex. And I'm okay with that - I don't need every character to be high-minded.  But his unilateral decision to kill the lead scientist struck me as ill-conceived.  

I'm sure he'll be shown as justified in some manner because he's one of the leads, but Fred Johnson, up to that point, was shown to be reasonably shrewd.  Even if he agreed with the scientist in that moment, there's no guarantee that would have been the permanent arrangement. If the lead scientist wanted to alert his allies, he had plenty of time to do so while they were storming the castle (and perhaps he did and we don't know it yet). In any case, finding out who's behind Belter genocide just got that much more difficult. 

On a separate note, my favorite moment was Amos paying that woman to sit there and listen to Alex pontificate. It was particularly funny since she seemed to be sincerely listening to him.                 

[sjohnson]

There wasn't enough time for Amos to pay the woman, nor was it really possible for Amos to get up without Alex noticing. That scene was BS designed to make Amos look cool. But a creature like Amos, who is simultaneously an emotionless killer who loves Naomi, both an extraordinarily cunning mind who mindlessless takes orders from his beloved...stuff and nonsense, to put it politely. 

Also, Avasarala isn't that smart. Her torture of the Belter early last season actually failed, but she certainly didn't take the lesson from it. 

Lastly, Miller dead ended the investigation into who was responsible. Of course, finding that out would have done vastly more to avert war than anything else. I'm afraid I expect the show is either absurdly delaying the resolution of the war plot to milk it for scenes. Or, even worse, it really does think Miller is cool for killing. 

In the context of the show's fetishization of violence, Holden is something of an anti-hero. Nobody likes anti-heroes.

[Andrew Wiggin]

3 hours ago, sjohnson said:

There wasn't enough time for Amos to pay the woman, nor was it really possible for Amos to get up without Alex noticing. That scene was BS designed to make Amos look cool. But a creature like Amos, who is simultaneously an emotionless killer who loves Naomi, both an extraordinarily cunning mind who mindlessless takes orders from his beloved...stuff and nonsense, to put it politely. 

 

I think in the Books Amos describes the realationship with Naomi in that way: He knows he is a Bad Person, thats way he follows Naomis lead because she is a Good Persone and will do the right Thing.

That didnt change that he is a Sociophat that will kill whitout hesitation or remorse if its necessary.

Sociophat could be a little to strong description,very little Emotions might be more true.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Andrew Wiggin

[sjohnson]

44 minutes ago, Andrew Wiggin said:

I think in the Books Amos describes the realationship with Naomi in that way: He knows he is a Bad Person, thats way he follows Naomis lead because she is a Good Persone and will do the right Thing.

That didnt change that he is a Sociophat that will kill whitout hesitation or remorse if its necessary.

Sociophat could be a little to strong description,very little Emotions might be more true.

For some reason although I read the first I can't remember anything except 1) disbelief that any space habitat wouldn't know exactly where and how many people were using oxygen every second and 2) some sort of apotheosis...which may be my memory playing tricks on me. I usually remember things better if I liked them. For some reason, I'm finding the TV more bearable so far, despite my strong reservations about the Amos love. 

[Clanstarling]

On 2/5/2017 at 6:00 AM, Netfoot said:

I watched Season 1 carefully, and never found there to be anything wrong with the sound.  So, the difficulties others have reported must come from somewhere other than the original source material.

Or you have really great ears. I had trouble with the sound both when watching the first episode on Syfy, and when rewatching it last week on Amazon Prime. In both cases I(and for a lot of season 1) I made a lot of use of closed captioning. However, this episode was pretty clear.

10 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

Having recently watched the first season, I never got the sense Miller cared much about Belters until he started investigating Julie's disappearance.  She seemed to inspire him out of his indifference and lethargy.

I just watched the first season too. My sense was a little different, in regards to the Belters anyway. He seemed like a man who always needed a personal connection to truly care - the friend that Amos killed, the woman on Ceres, and Julie. But in addition to finding Julie dead from such horrible circumstances, and seeing the atrocities committed on Eros  has broadened his zone of connection. I think he killed the scientist because he is somewhat like Amos - he acts rather than calculates consequences.

[jhlipton]

On 2/6/2017 at 5:44 PM, gibasi said:

I am not too interested in the politics of this fictional world.  I like the ethical questions that come up but the politics and alliances?  No.  

I like the politics.  I also like that Avasarala, while smarter than almost  everyone in the room, isn't as smart as she thinks she is.

[Danny Franks]

On 08/02/2017 at 0:33 AM, Clanstarling said:

I just watched the first season too. My sense was a little different, in regards to the Belters anyway. He seemed like a man who always needed a personal connection to truly care - the friend that Amos killed, the woman on Ceres, and Julie. But in addition to finding Julie dead from such horrible circumstances, and seeing the atrocities committed on Eros  has broadened his zone of connection. I think he killed the scientist because he is somewhat like Amos - he acts rather than calculates consequences.

I think Miller was looking for someone to vent his pain on, as much as anything. The pain of losing his job, being humiliated by Dawes,  then losing Julie, and Sematimba. And then almost dying from radiation sickness, as well as the trauma of seeing all those people on Eros die. He found someone to kill last season, when he saw that big, bald Belter who had impaled Havelock, and shot him during their escape from Eros. But that was just a fleeting moment of satisfaction.

He made Dresden the target of his anger before he ever met him. Righteous anger, at least in part. Vengeance for Julie, but also for everything Miller has gone through. He'd already said he was going to kill him, before he even met him. Then when he does meet him, he finds Dresden is an awful human being who feels absolutely no guilt or remorse, who wants to be given licence to kill even more people, under a new benefactor. 

So to Miller, I think killing Dresden was as natural as breathing.

[TDT]

The opening battle kind of looked like a cutscene from a Halo game..was almost expecting Master Chief to walk out before the title credit sequence..

Frankie Adams is doing a good job as Bobbi Draper,even if she doesnt resemble how she is described in the books

Edited February 10, 2017 by TDT

[WildPlum]

Haven't read the books, but Bobbie as portrayed here strikes me as an unpleasant, absolutely one-note fanatic and pretty much more of a loose cannon than Miller can be, as far as ignoring what is best for the bigger picture and only concentrating on her small mental world. At this point I wouldn't trust her NOT to start the war between Mars and Earth despite orders to the contrary.

All in all a pretty good start, like the 2 hour intro - although that is not what I call "limited commercial interruptions," fortunately I watch episodes recorded on DVR, I don't watch anything live if I can help it.

I was surprised to hear the OPA guy claim credit for ChrisJen's shuttle, I was sure that was her boss's doing.

[Danny Franks]

On 14/02/2017 at 10:21 PM, WildPlum said:

Haven't read the books, but Bobbie as portrayed here strikes me as an unpleasant, absolutely one-note fanatic and pretty much more of a loose cannon than Miller can be, as far as ignoring what is best for the bigger picture and only concentrating on her small mental world. At this point I wouldn't trust her NOT to start the war between Mars and Earth despite orders to the contrary.

It'll need interesting to see whether her views will change if and when she meets some non-Martians. Or if some other event will cause her to reassess her priorities. She's being shown as an idealist who has completely bought in other the jingoistic culture of her people.

[johntfs]

On 2/7/2017 at 8:03 AM, ribboninthesky1 said:

Even if he agreed with the scientist in that moment, there's no guarantee that would have been the permanent arrangement. If the lead scientist wanted to alert his allies, he had plenty of time to do so while they were storming the castle (and perhaps he did and we don't know it yet). In any case, finding out who's behind Belter genocide just got that much more difficult

I think Miller believed the scientist and that's why he shot the guy.  As shrewd as Johnson and Holden were, they'd end up believing the scientist as well, because he was telling the truth completely as he saw it.  The scientist would have happily sold out his previous benefactors just to keep doing his work.  So, Miller murdered the guy because he knew that otherwise the scientist would escape justice and moreover ultimately continue his work.

[ribboninthesky1]

I guess my thing is - the point of them going there was to find out who was behind it and if I recall, if some kind of vaccine could be made. Dresden should absolutely be held accountable.  But there were bigger things at stake than immediate vengeance for Eros (plus, I'm not convinced justice was shooting him - I would have dumped him on Eros so he could have first-hand experience with the "experiment").  

We'll never know what Johnson and Holden would have done because they didn't get the chance. Miller made that choice for all of them. 

[lidarose9]

I am coming late to the party. I just finished watching Season 1 and these first 2 eps of Season 2. I had watched the whole first season a second time before moving on to Season 2, and it all made a lot more sense and was a whole lot more enjoyable. I feel like everything in this show was build-up to s02e02. That episode was all kinds of awesome. I was knocked out. 

The hair on the back of my neck was standing up as Dresden was talking. As soon as Miller shot him, I said to myself, "I'm OK with that." Scientist or not, the man was a raving murderous lunatic. Obviously he would stop at *nothing* to continue his "work" and I do mean nothing. He'd been responsible for the genocidal carnage on Eros, which both Holden and Miller will never forget, and he is responsible for Julie Mao's death, which Miller takes very personally. She has become a symbol to him, and seeing what had been done to her on Eros rocked him to his core. It was a horrible, horrible way to die, alone, locked in that shithole, waiting for help, being consumed by the fuzzy blue/green fungus shit. He will devote the rest of his life to pursuing justice for her death and the others on Eros, the same way Holden is haunted by the dead of the Canterbury and the Donnager. I have no problem with him shooting Dresden. I would have too. 

The whole scene inside the stealth ship was, for me, fucking hauntingly bizarre and chilling. 

As to Amos and Naomi. I think Amos realizes he is not the brightest guy in the room, and he knows Naomi is smart. Really smart. Not just with engineering/mechanical things, but big picture stuff too, where he knows he is out of his depth. So at some point he decided to treat her like she is his boss. He calls her boss. It works for them both. She is his brains, he is her muscle. Whether he has romantic or sexual feelings for her, I don't know. I have to think Naomi had other lovers on the Cant/before this story began, which ostensibly he had no problem with. 

Edited March 25, 2017 by lidarose9