S01.E12: The Murder of Jesse James

[CooperTV]

Quote

Flynn teams up with legendary outlaw, Jesse James. Together they cut a bloody swath across the American frontier. Hot on Flynn's trail, Lucy, Wyatt and Rufus enlist the help of an iconic Marshal to help bring the fugitives to justice.

Promos

[legaleagle53]

OK, that promo made me laugh to see Lucy back to being something of a klutz (which is one thing that Abigail Spencer loves about the character) and to see Rufus' reaction to the fact that the Lone Ranger was black.  Another fun episode, to be sure!

[Raja]

I  understand Rufus's reaction. Until Marshal Bass Reaves was named dropped on a Justified episode I never heard of him. Now it seems that every new Western drops his name to justify the diverse crew and how a Rufus can be part of the team on their show 

[green]

The "old west" they said on the previews.  Hello.  The James Gang "worked" mainly in their home state of Missouri.  Jesse and Frank started out as Confederate raiders since Missouri was a border state that trended to the south in the Civil War.  Previews made it sound like they were in the wild west.

[Moose135]

5 hours ago, green said:

The "old west" they said on the previews.  Hello.  The James Gang "worked" mainly in their home state of Missouri.  Jesse and Frank started out as Confederate raiders since Missouri was a border state that trended to the south in the Civil War.  Previews made it sound like they were in the wild west.

As a New Yorker, pretty much anything past the Hudson River is "out west". ;-)

[Dowel Jones]

On 1/18/2017 at 1:20 AM, green said:

The "old west" they said on the previews.

I haven't seen the episode yet, but, just for odd reference, Jesse James did hide out in California from time to time, at his uncle's ranch outside of Paso Robles.  I don't know if any crimes were attributed to him, but his reputation did precede him so he did kind of lay low.  This was long before interstate law enforcement.

[Bunty]

I love the ballads that came out of the west.  Here are 2 clips from different movies of the old folk ballad Jesse James.

[JackONeill]

Finally, THIS is the show they should have started with.  

Edited January 24, 2017 by JackONeill

[The Wild Sow]

Yay, Zahn McClarnon!

[Cranberry]

Yeah, I really enjoyed this one. They mentioned Lucy's sister again (which is a plot point I know annoys some people, but she hasn't mentioned her lately and it wouldn't make sense for her to just forget about it), they started training a replacement pilot (as people here have been saying they should), they moved Wyatt's plot forward (and had him act intelligently in confirming that the name Flynn gave him was accurate -- I was afraid Flynn was trying to pull a fast one and have Wyatt take out someone Flynn wanted gone), they brought back a former time traveler, they had the characters debate good and evil and question their mission, and they tied all that up in a great Lone Ranger/Jesse James plot that had some funny dialogue despite the heavier subject matter. This was one of my favorites so far, maybe even my favorite.

[KaveDweller]

I liked this episode, but it was a bit more depressing than usual.

I can't believe Flynn let Jesse James anywhere near a modern gun after hearing him talk about how he basically killed for fun. I know he didn't have much choice at the end, but he brought the gun with him.

I think Lucy did the right thing. There's no guarantee that Jesse will actually go to jail for life, and his not dying when he was supposed to had already resulted in the deaths of at least 8 people who didn't die before. It sucked to have to break their word to Bass, but they couldn't exactly explain themselves.

I love the reveal of another pilot being alive and living in the 19th century for years. I guess it had been ten years for her and not for people in the present, which makes me wonder why Flynn didn't go back to an earlier point. Did he just think he really needed Jesse James's help? Did he think she'd be more desperate to get out of the past after that long? I'm curious what Flynn wants her help with.

[benteen]

Really enjoyed this episode and loved the Western setting.  Once more they had engaging historical figures.  I agree that Lucy did the right thing too.  Jesse would have gone on killing and it restored the timeline.

Been a fan of Annie Wersching since 24.

[JackONeill]

Still don't know where they're heading with all this. Mason is getting more evil. Getting 2nd pilot, but already at odds with her and she knows something is wrong. Sister is back, but only as dream. Wyatt knows who killed his wife, and now...? Rufus is still Rufus. Why did Flynn need Jesse? Why does Flynn need original pilot? I wasn't clear: did she know how bad Rittenhouse is/was and if so, why'd she go with Flynn? To destroy Rittenhouse?

I got goosebumps when they went into the cabin and saw all the gear. I had this vivid Lost flashback. Somehow, in that brief glimpse, I saw what this show should have been.

It did bother me that they killed Jesse. I'm really not sure why. He was giving up and had taken his gun belt off.

[thuganomics85]

Man, A... no, A+ on the guest casting front.  Colman Domingo as Bass Reeves a.k.a. "The Lone Ranger."  Zahn McClarnon as his "Tonto" (I didn't catch the real name.)  I would totally watch a Lone Ranger spin-off with those two!  Just  Victor Strand and Hanzee bringing justice to the Old West!  Sign me up!  Also great seeing Annie Wersching (sounds like she'll be recurring) and Daniel Lissing (who I remember from Last Resort) was a solid Jesse James.

Really enjoyed this episode.  The Old West setting was great (since it's shot in Canada, I think I noticed some locations that they used on AMC's Hell on Wheels), and seeing everyone in the outfits was badass and more (Abigail Spencer in cowboy hat and pants was something I never knew I wanted.)  The dilemma over killing Jesse was solid.  Knowing what they know, I can see why they (or Lucy) decided to take him out in the end, but I can understand why Bass was upset over it.  But it is curious to see how many more people these three will have to kill and how it will effect them.

I do wonder what was the point of Flynn even bringing the assault rife, since he never seemed to use it.  But I did like the change of pace of having him not trying to kill a Rittenhouse dude, but recruit someone they had wronged.

Glad they seem to be finally incorporating Jiya into the main stuff, by having Rittenhouse want her to be the new pilot, and her snooping and getting on the bad side of Mason.  Hopefully, she'll continue to dig and maybe she and Rufus will finally talk, and she can get into the fold.  And, well, not die.

Speaking of Mason, he's kind of back to scaring me now.

Hey, Lucy and the show remember that Amy exists!  Or used to exist!

Oh, boy.  So, Wyatt is going to steal the machine and try to save his wife.  Wyatt, Wyatt, Wyatt!  Have you not seen any time-traveling show or film, ever?!  This never works out!  NEVER!!!

[phalange]

That was a good twist there, introducing another time traveler. I like Emma and I hope she shows up again, though I don't remotely trust Flynn's motives in wanting to work with her. I like that Jiya is getting a bigger storyline, but I'm sure Mason, like Flynn, has ulterior motives. Judging by his look when he was watching them, Rufus feels the same.

I honestly felt really bad for Lucy at the end. Not only is she feeling guilty about Amy, but she killed Jesse James, the first time she's had to kill someone on a mission (if I'm not mistaken), and neither Wyatt nor Rufus thought to check up on her and make sure she was ok. I know they have their own problems right now, but Lucy was there for Rufus after he killed someone for the first time. And by being the one to kill James, she allowed Wyatt to keep his promise to the Lone Ranger. Side-eyeing your lack of support, dudes. 

So Wyatt wants to steal the time machine and go after the guy who killed Jessica. I'm sure this will in no way end badly and is totally not playing directly into Flynn's plan to cause issues within the team.

[benteen]

Zahn McClarnon played Grant Johnson.  Here's an article on the actual historical figure...

http://www.historynet.com/the-tonto-of-indian-territory.htm

Props for Rufus noting "So it's like the scary version of Blazing Saddles."

[Moose135]

2 minutes ago, benteen said:

Props for Rufus noting "So it's like the scary version of Blazing Saddles."

I loved that line!

Although Rufus pretty well screwed himself last week with his threat "I'm the only pilot you have!"  Seriously, what did he think would happen, and what does he think will happen when a replacement pilot is fully trained?

[methodwriter85]

Was that the same Amy actress? She looked really different from the pilot.

This was a solid episode. Was that the Hunger Games book they picked up in the time traveler's cabin?

Edited January 24, 2017 by methodwriter85

[ketose]

25 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Man, A... no, A+ on the guest casting front.  Colman Domingo as Bass Reeves a.k.a. "The Lone Ranger."  Zahn McClarnon as his "Tonto" (I didn't catch the real name.)  I would totally watch a Lone Ranger spin-off with those two!  Just  Victor Strand and Hanzee bringing justice to the Old West!  Sign me up!  Also great seeing Annie Wersching (sounds like she'll be recurring) and Daniel Lissing (who I remember from Last Resort) was a solid Jesse James.

Really enjoyed this episode.  The Old West setting was great (since it's shot in Canada, I think I noticed some locations that they used on AMC's Hell on Wheels), and seeing everyone in the outfits was badass and more (Abigail Spencer in cowboy hat and pants was something I never knew I wanted.)  The dilemma over killing Jesse was solid.  Knowing what they know, I can see why they (or Lucy) decided to take him out in the end, but I can understand why Bass was upset over it.  But it is curious to see how many more people these three will have to kill and how it will effect them.

I do wonder what was the point of Flynn even bringing the assault rife, since he never seemed to use it.  But I did like the change of pace of having him not trying to kill a Rittenhouse dude, but recruit someone they had wronged.

Glad they seem to be finally incorporating Jiya into the main stuff, by having Rittenhouse want her to be the new pilot, and her snooping and getting on the bad side of Mason.  Hopefully, she'll continue to dig and maybe she and Rufus will finally talk, and she can get into the fold.  And, well, not die.

Speaking of Mason, he's kind of back to scaring me now.

Hey, Lucy and the show remember that Amy exists!  Or used to exist!

Oh, boy.  So, Wyatt is going to steal the machine and try to save his wife.  Wyatt, Wyatt, Wyatt!  Have you not seen any time-traveling show or film, ever?!  This never works out!  NEVER!!!

I'm glad to see Annie Wersching again after her short run on Vampire Diaries last season.

You know what would be fun? If Wyatt's mission went off without a hitch and his wife is back. Of course, maybe she dumps him in the new timeline or Wyatt gets super protective of her and that pisses her off.

Also, Jesse James totally nailed it by suggesting Flynn is just going around murdering because he likes killing and Rittenhouse was an excuse.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Even if W&R do succeed in going back and saving Wyatt's wife, its going to blow up in his face big time.  Either the marriage fails horribly, or something happens to Rufus in the process (or in the altered-timeline aftermath) or Lucy's life gets screwed over even more.  Or, some other peripheral change occurs for the worst.  Whatever the end results, its going to end up horrifically disastrous.  Calling it now.

Really not sure why Lucy shot James.  As of right now, it just looks like a vehicle to keep piling the angst on her plate and little else.  Wyatt is the one who's all about preventing further *potential* murders (using knowledge based on historic facts), not the other two. 

Mason just became completely unlikable in this episode.  I was willing to overlook his actions/words before, thinking it was all a product of being under loads of the constant pressure of Rittenhouse, but he literally turned into the same type of guy as the one(s) who holds the sword over his own head.

(paraphrasing, without remembering direct quotes)
"You should have talked to that guy from the paper.  You should talk to a bunch of reporters."
"Why?"
"Because if you don't, you'll be portrayed as a white (dude?) in a mask."

I didn't realize (or remember?) AW was so freckle-y, but regardless, she's still mucho attractive.  Hope she gets plenty of screen time in the show's near-future.

Edited January 24, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[green]

4 hours ago, JackONeill said:

Still don't know where they're heading with all this. Mason is getting more evil. Getting 2nd pilot, but already at odds with her and she knows something is wrong. Sister is back, but only as dream. Wyatt knows who killed his wife, and now...? Rufus is still Rufus. Why did Flynn need Jesse? Why does Flynn need original pilot? I wasn't clear: did she know how bad Rittenhouse is/was and if so, why'd she go with Flynn? To destroy Rittenhouse?

I got goosebumps when they went into the cabin and saw all the gear. I had this vivid Lost flashback. Somehow, in that brief glimpse, I saw what this show should have been.

It did bother me that they killed Jesse. I'm really not sure why. He was giving up and had taken his gun belt off.

Good for you.  It should bother you that Lucy killed Jesse James in cold blood.  Wyatt wanted to as well.  Rufus is right.  They are turning into the people they hate.  Good that Bass has a conscience because both Lucy and Wyatt seemed to lose theirs in their own self-centered needs to save a loved one at the risk of messing up every other person's loved ones in the process.  How does that make them different than Flynn in the end?

Rufus is the lone conscience of the three now and got a nice power boost to remaining so by Bass' example.  Bass was 100% right and glad he told Lucy that she didn't do a good thing.  They are on the same path that lead Jesse James into becoming a mass murderer.  Fighting for a cause at all costs.  Jesse nailed Flynn between the eyes with that comment.  And Wyatt is catching up with Flynn given his lines this episode about not being bothered about killing people.  And now Lucy has crossed the line.  Like I said above, all three are motivated originally by saving their dead or "disappeared" loved ones.  And it is leading all three into a very very dark place.  Only Rufus feels bad about killing another human being.

Finally something different as we get a new character in the pilot that had been hiding for 10 years in the "old west" of Missouri.  But no one knows she is alive.  Rittenhouse seems to have no way to locate her and Mason thought she was for sure dead.   So why was she hiding in the woods?  She is already hiding in time.  Couldn't she hang out back east where she doesn't have to go out and shoot squirrels for dinner every night or something?  Have a gas street light outside her window to read The Hunger Games with?  (And why the hell did she take a novel on a mission?).

Oh well, glad they pointed out it would take 6 months to train another pilot for the time machine.  That's what I estimated the time period should be all along in these episode threads so I figured out something right in this show.  Now to figure out why novels are tucked away in time machines.

Edited January 24, 2017 by green

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

The introduction of Emma was great and interesting and all, but along with that was another mention of the other pilot and it begs the question, where is Anthony?  We haven't seen him since Space Race.  Does Flynn keep him permanently chained to the pilot's seat in the Mothership now, just outside the viewing angle of the opened door, or what?

[shapeshifter]

I'm pretty sure Now Evil Mason intends for Jiya to die in her current training mission, but maybe she won't. Tune in next week, folks.

 

. . . (paraphrasing, without remembering direct quotes)
"You should have talked to that guy from the paper.  You should talk to a bunch of reporters."
"Why?"
"Because if you don't, you'll be remembered as a white (dude?) in a mask.". . .

I'm pretty sure it was "Dick white guy in a mask," because that use of dick was one of many slang words in this episode that took me out of the scene because it didn't sound like it belonged in mid-19th century America, although at least Rufus said it. Jesse James was uttering so many anachronisms that my eyes were rolling like those of a Looney Tunes character that got clobbered on the head.

[Quilt Fairy]

I noticed that Flynn always talked about Anthony in the past tense.  He told Emma, "I can take you to the ship", he didn't say "I can take you to the ship and Anthony".

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I know it was heavily speculated before, but with the dialogue provided tonight, I think its been (mostly) confirmed that Rittenhouse did engineer Jessica's death - or some other manufactured reason other than just a random killer murdering Wyatt's wife when it happened.

"I know exactly who you are, Wyatt Logan.  I knew who Jessica was.  ....  If I could go back and change things, I would, but I can't."

 

26 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I'm pretty sure it was "Dick white guy in a mask," because that use of dick was one of many slang words in this episode that took me out of the scene because it didn't sound like it belonged in mid-19th century America, although at least Rufus said it. Jesse James was uttering so many anachronisms that my eyes were rolling like those of a Looney Tunes character that got clobbered on the head.

I thought he said 'dick', but couldn't be sure, so guessed 'dude' instead.

Edited January 24, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[bros402]

That was a very enjoyable episode.

[redpencil]

Quote

I liked this episode, but it was a bit more depressing than usual.

Yes. I liked it, everything was well done, the guest actors were great. But...it was kind of a downer. I came away from it kind of depressed. Apparently I prefer this show when it's fun romps through time? I guess as long as not every episode is like that.

Quote

Also, Jesse James totally nailed it by suggesting Flynn is just going around murdering because he likes killing and Rittenhouse was an excuse.

Yep. I'm not sure where this is going to go with Rittenhouse and Flynn. Rittenhouse may very well be as bad as Flynn says, in which case the team is going to eventually turn on them. But they've taken Flynn too far to be redeemed in any way shape or form. They could reluctantly team up with him briefly for the greater good, but any attempt to turn him into a good guy would just never work.

And I am glad that the inevitable "Wyatt tries to save Jessica" episode is happening. I kind of want to get that over with (or at least progress to whatever is next, whether it doesn't work and Wyatt finally moves on, or it does and there's some eventual twist to do with her).

Edited January 24, 2017 by redpencil

[The Wild Sow]

4 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

I thought he said 'dick', but couldn't be sure, so guessed 'dude' instead.

Yeah, he said "dick"!

And I'm still cracking up over "Scary version of Blazing Saddles."

But poor Grant -- he should have lived well into the 20th Century.  Lots of people died who shouldn't have (even the Ford brothers!)  And, where was Jesse's wife?  Zerelda James was home (in the kitchen, probably cleaning up after the breakfast she'd just cooked for Jesse and the Ford boys) when Jesse was shot.  No mention of her, or their children.

[Bort]

3 hours ago, redpencil said:

I am glad that the inevitable "Wyatt tries to save Jessica" episode is happening. I kind of want to get that over with (or at least progress to whatever is next, whether it doesn't work and Wyatt finally moves on, or it does and there's some eventual twist to do with her).

Me too. I'm glad Wyatt is planning this because as long as he has access to a time machine and doesn't try, he will never move on.  This inevitably doomed plan will give him closure.

People don't even seem to hire Annie Wersching for just episode, do they? Everything I've seen her in has been a multi-episode arc -- and she does good work, so this Hiding from Ritthenhouse in the Past but Now Teaming Up with Flynn storyline looks promising.

[Randomosity]

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Really enjoyed this episode.  The Old West setting was great (since it's shot in Canada, I think I noticed some locations that they used on AMC's Hell on Wheels),

Anyone else watch Once Upon a Time? The Lone Ranger definitely lives in Zelena's house (Wicked Witch of the West, for the uninitiated), right? Same house that was Colin O'Donoghue's (Captain Hook) in that music video he did, right? Is there only one run-down looking house in all of the Vancouver area??  And Timeless Emma (as opposed to OUAT Emma) was living in the cabin where August was held during the Ursula episode, no?

7 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Was that the same Amy actress? She looked really different from the pilot.

This was a solid episode. Was that the Hunger Games book they picked up in the time traveler's cabin?

I recognized her as the same person. And yes, pretty sure I saw Hunger Games too.

6 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

I know it was heavily speculated before, but with the dialogue provided tonight, I think its been (mostly) confirmed that Rittenhouse did engineer Jessica's death - or some other manufactured reason other than just a random killer murdering Wyatt's wife when it happened.

I had this thought too, and I had no knowledge of spoilers or speculation.

I'm definitely intrigued by this new Emma person. I like that she appeared to get to Flynn and shake his confidence when she insisted she knew more than he could ever know. Can't wait to find out more of whatever's going on.

The only thing that didn't sit well with me was that there was nothing shown of the guys trying to talk to Lucy after she shot Jesse James. Wasn't Rufus super rattled after killing for the first time? So much that he talked about it again in this episode? I'm assuming it's the first time Lucy has killed anyone, so it just seemed odd to me that they didn't try to help her deal with that mentally.

Does anyone know how many episodes this season will have? (And how things are looking regarding possible renewal or cancellation?)

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

Me too. I'm glad Wyatt is planning this because as long as he has access to a time machine and doesn't try, he will never move on.  This inevitably doomed plan will give him closure.

People don't even seem to hire Annie Wersching for just episode, do they? Everything I've seen her in has been a multi-episode arc -- and she does good work, so this Hiding from Ritthenhouse in the Past but Now Teaming Up with Flynn storyline looks promising.

 She did just the one episode on Supernatural, about 10 years ago.  But, otherwise, yes she does seem to get (at least) 3 episode arcs in [most] TV shows she's hired to act in.

[JackONeill]

9 hours ago, JackONeill said:

Still don't know where they're heading with all this. Mason is getting more evil. Getting 2nd pilot, but already at odds with her and she knows something is wrong. Sister is back, but only as dream. Wyatt knows who killed his wife, and now...? Rufus is still Rufus. Why did Flynn need Jesse? Why does Flynn need original pilot? I wasn't clear: did she know how bad Rittenhouse is/was and if so, why'd she go with Flynn? To destroy Rittenhouse?

I got goosebumps when they went into the cabin and saw all the gear. I had this vivid Lost flashback. Somehow, in that brief glimpse, I saw what this show should have been.

It did bother me that they killed Jesse. I'm really not sure why. He was giving up and had taken his gun belt off.

Yeah, I'm quoting myself. I'm lonely, what can I say?

About a point I raised, about how I had a Lost flashback watching this episode, and how the show could be made better (IMO). 

Here's what I mean:  what happens if there had been a number of earlier pilots, and many of them didn't come back (crashed or maybe stayed on purpose)? Then Headquarters notice a lot of strange anamolies. So, they theorize that it's the pilots (or pilot) who got stuck in the past that's causing things to change. So, they send our team back to find the pilots (or pilot). And they have to also try to "correct" the timeline.

if it's just one pilot, they can have that person know that the team is coming to get them, so he/she "jumps" to a new time. And since the battery is weakening the jumps have to be short, a year or two, or maybe only months. So, the team would has to stay, say, in the cowboy era until they found the pilot.

maybe our team could have some kind of a communications device so that they can keep in touch with modern times, only to find out more and more bad stuff is happening. Of course, the unltimate bad thing would be if our team calls into headquarters only to hear: "Who are you and how did you get this frequency?"

[Sandman]

9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Hey, Lucy and the show remember that Amy exists!  Or used to exist!

Oh, boy.  So, Wyatt is going to steal the machine and try to save his wife.  Wyatt, Wyatt, Wyatt!  Have you not seen any time-traveling show or film, ever?!  This never works out!  NEVER!!!

This is one part of the episode that didn't really work for me: I didn't buy how Wyatt went from "Nobody's that good," to an acknowledgment that Bass is, in fact, just that ethical -- to "Hey, I'll steal the Eyeball! That'll fix everything! In spite of the evidence provided by every single mission we've been on."

8 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

I know it was heavily speculated before, but with the dialogue provided tonight, I think its been (mostly) confirmed that Rittenhouse did engineer Jessica's death - or some other manufactured reason other than just a random killer murdering Wyatt's wife when it happened.

"I know exactly who you are, Wyatt Logan.  I knew who Jessica was.  ....  If I could go back and change things, I would, but I can't."

That's how I read his "confession," too; he may not know everything that's going on, but I'm sure he knows that somebody planned for Jessica to die.

9 hours ago, green said:

They are turning into the people they hate.  Good that Bass has a conscience because both Lucy and Wyatt seemed to lose theirs in their own self-centered needs to save a loved one at the risk of messing up every other person's loved ones in the process.  How does that make them different than Flynn in the end?

This is the central question the show means to ask, I'd say.

I did love the moment where Lucy, wearing her scandalous trousers, heaves herself into the saddle and right over the other side. I thought Spencer's timing of that physical gag was exactly right.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Sandman
Because this show needs more physical comedy, consarn it!

[Randomosity]

9 hours ago, green said:

Now to figure out why novels are tucked away in time machines.

Obviously Rufus is involved in all of the whatnot of the adventures, but it appears Anthony is only involved with Flynn's doings some of the time. Perhaps Anthony is sitting in the mothership reading the rest of the Hunger Games series. Maybe Emma was only ever left to sit around in the time machine, thus necessitating a book? Or hell, she had a lot of stuff with her - maybe it was part of something planned at one point, to have someone stay longer term in certain time periods?

[JackONeill]

Another thing that struck me odd last night waswhen Wyatt got on his high horse about how "events are going to change." Sure, that's a possibility, and always has been. Yes, we've some changes, most notably, Lucy's sister disappearing. But I don't quite understand why Wyatt was so adamant about it last night?!?

Then Wyatt becomes obsessed about killing Jesse James. Well, if Wyatt killed Jesse, doesn't that change history? Not to mention, when the team got there, Jesse had already outlived his "actual" death at the hands of Ford. So, history had ALREADY changed. Sure, it would have continued to change with Jesse living, but do we actually know that for sure?? 

And I thought Wyatt's sole mission was to stop and kill Flynn...not everybody else he runs into that he doesn't Iike.

and the whole thing with Wyatt's wife -- how the hell does that fit into anything? (I guess next week may tell us.)

Edited January 24, 2017 by JackONeill

[Bort]

20 minutes ago, Sandman said:

I did love the moment where Lucy, wearing her scandalous trousers, heaves herself into the saddle and right over the other side. I thought Spencer's timing of that physical gag was exactly right.

I loved how it happened so fast, by the time the camera made the journey, Lucy is just standing next to the horse, trying not to look embarrassed.

[Primetimer]

But screws it all up by letting bad boys play with big guns.

View the full article

[benteen]

These three are proving why they shouldn't be allowed to time travel in the first place or be near a time machine.  Not that I blame Wyatt for wanting to use it to save his wife or Lucy trying to save her sister's very existence.  But their complete inability not to become emotional involved in what they are doing makes them a severe security risk.

Jesse James completely called out Flynn for being someone who enjoys killing and Flynn's indiscriminate killing, regardless of consequence, is proof of that.

Edited January 24, 2017 by benteen

[JackONeill]

Yes this is petty. I admit it. But when you shoot that kind of weapon from such a short distance into a wooden structure, anybody who's standing, or even attempting to get down, is going to get hit (maybe not killed). I find this unbelievable in every show and movie in which I see it. But, hey, it's just me.

Edited January 24, 2017 by JackONeill

[basiltherat]

Flynn likes to  kill people . . . just like Jesse James, and that's how he pegged him so easily.  Why would Flynn need Jesse as his  muscle if he has a Gatling Gun?   Jesse is such a loose cannon that he could have killed Emma when Flynn wanted her alive.

Jesse surrendered too easily; I wouldn't have trusted him in captivity not to haul off and shoot everyone.  He did, after all, kill "Tonto"

Jessica better be a damned saint, for all this blessed buildup.

[JackONeill]

There's no denying Jesse is/was a bad guy. He killed people, robbed banks, etc. And, true, he might have tried something after being captured. But I think I'd put my money on the Lone Ranger in that situation. Plus, this happened after the historic timeline ended. According to history, our team got there after Flynn had killed the man who was about to kill Jesse.  Who's to say that if he had lived that extra day or so AND then gone to jail wasn't preferable (from a new history standpoint) to him getting killed by some "stranger (a woman wearing pants, at that) from the future?" I mean, which of those scenarios would be more likely to screw with "new" history?

[Randomosity]

11 minutes ago, basiltherat said:

Jessica better be a damned saint, for all this blessed buildup.

Which just makes me wonder, if as someone mentioned above, how much of her death is wrapped up in Rittenhouse. What happens if she is PART of Rittenhouse, what does Wyatt do then?

[JackONeill]

We only have a handful of shows left. I'm feeling less and less confidant of a satisfactory conclusion. And I want this show to continue, that's the kicker.

[rose711]

Does this show remind anyone else of something that might have been written in 1960? The writing just feels really old and tire to me. It's another show that could have been good.

[withanaich]

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I think Lucy did the right thing. There's no guarantee that Jesse will actually go to jail for life, and his not dying when he was supposed to had already resulted in the deaths of at least 8 people who didn't die before. It sucked to have to break their word to Bass, but they couldn't exactly explain themselves.

I don’t know that Lucy did the right thing, because she doesn’t even argue her case. When Wyatt brought it up, it seemed like she was leaning more toward Rufus’ way of thinking. Then: BANG! She shoots an unarmed, injured man in the back. Um, why? Because she was sad about her sister’s birthday? And it did nothing to “fix” the timeline. It may have prevented it from getting even more out of whack (we'll certainly never know), but the extra people Jesse James killed were already dead and still are.

Maybe I’m just struggling with it not because it was “wrong” but because Lucy seemed in no position to be making any kind of decisions this episode. Was she grieving, or was she drugged? She should have called in sick. I’m sorry, but I don’t care about Lucy’s sister. We never got to know her. (Seriously, we got to know Jesse James – the BAD GUY – more in this single episode than we got to know Lucy's sister or Wyatt's damn wife.) We never hear about her unless Lucy’s throwing a temper tantrum or going catatonic because she had a bad dream.

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Good for you.  It should bother you that Lucy killed Jesse James in cold blood.  Wyatt wanted to as well.  Rufus is right.  They are turning into the people they hate.  Good that Bass has a conscience because both Lucy and Wyatt seemed to lose theirs in their own self-centered needs to save a loved one at the risk of messing up every other person's loved ones in the process.  How does that make them different than Flynn in the end?

Exactly. I don’t know who I’m supposed to root for or even like anymore, except Rufus. Lucy used to be likable, but they’re turning her into the same kind of whiny useless baby as Wyatt.

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So why was she hiding in the woods?  She is already hiding in time.  Couldn't she hang out back east where she doesn't have to go out and shoot squirrels for dinner every night or something?  Have a gas street light outside her window to read The Hunger Games with?  (And why the hell did she take a novel on a mission?).

Oh well, glad they pointed out it would take 6 months to train another pilot for the time machine.  That's what I estimated the time period should be all along in these episode threads so I figured out something right in this show.  Now to figure out why novels are tucked away in time machines.

 

I assumed she was supposed to hang back in the machine while Anthony went to check things out on their missions? (Which would actually be a smarter role for Rufus, if not as much fun to watch.) Or maybe they even took turns babysitting the ship and exploring. I think I also saw a video game controller in the cabin, so it seems like the pilot had plenty of stuff in the ship to pass the time. Or maybe she grabbed a bunch of supplies on her last trip because she knew she wasn't coming back.

She was most likely hiding in the woods so that if Anthony ratted her out to Mason, they still wouldn't be able to find her. Anthony knew she wasn’t dead and Flynn knew when she was, but wouldn’t have known where she was without Lucy’s journal. Plus, maybe the pilot actually cares about not changing history and was trying to hang back in the woods to avoid civilization altogether. The more people she interacts with, the more chances she has to screw up the timeline. (Which is bad for its own sake, but might also alert Rittenhouse to her presence in the past.) All those creepy animal skulls outside her cabin certainly said, "STAY AWAY."

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I'm pretty sure Now Evil Mason intends for Jiya to die in her current training mission, but maybe she won't. Tune in next week, folks.

My husband suspects that Mason hasn’t gone Full-On Evil, that he’s playing both sides against the middle. It could be that he’s trying to scare Jiya out of being the pilot without actively trying to discourage her. He left her a trail of breadcrumbs he knows she's curious and resourceful enough to follow. If Jiya decides she doesn't want to pilot the ship (or indeed, to work for Mason's suddenly super-scary ass at all), Mason would be "forced" to keep using Rufus and Rittenhouse wouldn't be able to go after him. Which would make a lot of sense and still be in character, but might be too well-thought-out for this show. (Which I love, but I don’t think they’ve fleshed everything out the way that they should have.)

[DoubleUTeeEff]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

 

These three are proving why they shouldn't be allowed to time travel in the first place or be near a time machine.  Not that I blame Wyatt for wanting to use it to save his wife or Lucy trying to save her sister's very existence.  But their complete inability not to become emotional involved in what they are doing makes them a severe security risk.

Is there anyone for whom a time machine wouldn't be a massive temptation?  Most people have regrets and many have had someone close to them die. Imagine being able to go back and spend time with someone you love who has passed away.  And then there would be people who had good intentions, like changing some event in history that killed a lot of people.  Not to mention the people who would be greedy and want to profit.  Maybe there should be some sort of screening process.  Wyatt would definitely fail, considering his wife died prematurely in a violent way.  Plus the fact that the last moments he had with her were contentious.  Lucy might pass as a historian who would want to preserve history.  It's interesting that Lucy only wants to go back and change things back to what they were after they had already changed things.

[iMonrey]

The big question this episode failed to answer is why Flynn couldn't simply land his time machine right outside Emma's house. Why did he need to first collect Jesse James, show him a map and travel on foot several miles to reach Emma's house? Apparently they can "land" the time machine anywhere they want, otherwise they risk landing in the ocean or on a lake or something. What we needed was a scene where Anthony techno-splains why they can only land in certain areas, but apparently Matt Frewer was only available for a limited number of episodes - or, the show could only pay Frewer for a limited number of episodes. In any case, his absence is rather glaring. 

Also, Flynn had some incredible timing, managing to walk into the house at the split second Jesse James was about to be shot. That's incredibly lucky on his part, considering the fact that the exact time of day James was shot is probably not a matter of historical record. The day? Sure. Approximate time? Maybe. Split second? I don't think so.

There is also a certain amount of irony in a gloomy Lucy proclaiming she doesn't want to do this job anymore. Then kill Flynn already. You've had 12 chances, you should have been fired by now.

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Daniel Lissing (who I remember from Last Resort) 

I spent most of the episode furiously scanning imdb.com because I couldn't figure out where I'd seen him before and he isn't credited in the cast list for this episode. He bears an uncanny resemblance to figure skater Evan Lysacek.

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Then: BANG! She shoots an unarmed, injured man in the back. Um, why? Because she was sad about her sister’s birthday? And it did nothing to “fix” the timeline. It may have prevented it from getting even more out of whack (we'll certainly never know), but the extra people Jesse James killed were already dead and still are.

If nothing else, Lucy & Co. have returned to a world where the movie The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford was never made.  Is there a movie in the new timeline called The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Lucy Preston?

Edited January 24, 2017 by iMonrey

[CooperTV]

I have so much mixed feelings about this episode! For me it was definitely better than the last week's episode but this one also had too many things going on in it at once, and it was sending really confusing messages.

The lost Eyeball pilot lady was the most interesting part of the entire episode. The plot and mythology are finally moving forward, and her hiding in the past was intriguing. I even liked Flynn for those 30 seconds while he was trying to convince her to come back with him. So many interesting  possibilities there, I hope they won't drop this until the finale (which I suspect they'll do *sigh*).

Flynn needed Jesse James... to kill everyone because... reasons, right? Since Flynn had this machine gun Jesse was salivating over, I'm pretty sure he'd do that all by himself. Also, Flynn's indignation over Jesse James calling himself a natural born killer, more or less, and then saying Flynn is the same was again, the most random thing about the episode. Dude, you're a killer. You murdered a lot of people, and nobody knows how your actions affected the lives of others. Stop being such a hypocrite.

Lucy was checked out the entire episode, and only came to at the every end. She probably shouldn't have, though.

All that stuff about how killing bad people is B.A.D. from Bass (and the writers) towards the Eyeball Trio was annoying, nothing else. We had this thing in the last episode when Wyatt killed an unarmed scumbag who would've sell his story to the press if he'd lived, and it was fine. But killing an unarmed scumbag who would've sell his story to the press if he'd lived in this episode is ~dishonorable? Why?!

I need Reeves/Grant tv show like, right now! They were so entertaining, I'd watch them for ten hours straight. On related note, Rufus and Wyatt fangirling over Lone Gunman was great character moment.

[Sandman]

Not for nothing, but if the Lone Gunmen had access to a time machine? Hoo boy! (Pretty sure you meant to type "Lone Ranger," above, CooperTV.)

[tennisgurl]

59 minutes ago, benteen said:

Jesse James completely called out Flynn for being someone who enjoys killing and Flynn's indiscriminate killing, regardless of consequence, is proof of that.

Yeah, Jesse totally called him out, and it seems like he was 100% right. Flynn can go on and on about how Rittenhouse is the literal worst and how he is just trying to stop them, and how he wants to make the world a better place, but, from everything we have seen so far, Flynn is just a murder happy asshole who keeps screwing up history without giving a thought to the consequences. And, even worse, he's also a dumbass. Like, yes Flynn, you will so clearly need that ASSAULT RIFLE in the Old West! I see no problems here.

However, this was actually a step in the right direction for the show. We actually had some forward motion! I am just glad Flynn had a plot this week other than just killing random Rittenhouse guys or just randomly screwing with history (next, I shall assassinate the first starting line up of the Harlem Globetrotters! Muahahah!),even though I have no idea what he plans on doing now that he has teamed up with this pilot. I guess he finally realized that his plan of "just shooting everyone" wasn't really working, so now it was time for plan B.

Normally, I would totally be calling out Lucy for killing an unarmed, injured man who had already surrendered, and I can totally see why Bass was pissed, but I think this one is pretty justified, mainly because, really, Jessie should have died already. This was just righting the time stream. Maybe. On the other hand, those law men in the bar, those Native Americans, Grant, the Ford brothers, and who know who else was affected by all these hijinks, are all dead early, so the time stream is already a mess. So... at least its asking some interesting questions?

I loved all the Old West stuff, and Real Life and More Awesome Lone Ranger and Not Tonto were so entertaining and fun to watch. The guy playing Jesse James was also solid. I would watch a show where Grant and Bass travel around chasing Jesse James through the Old West. It continues the trend this show has of "historical character of the week is awesome and would easily defeat Flynn in five minutes" they have had going for quite awhile. When Flynn saved Jesse James, I thought at first that he was recruiting various villains from throughout history, to create some kind of historical Legion of Doom kind of thing, which would lead to Our Heroes recruiting heroes from throughout history to stop their evil plans. Basically, the same thing I wanted to happen last week. Yeah, I know yanking famous people (or any people) out of history is a Bad Idea, but since when has that actually made any difference to anyone? Amy is the only real change we have actually seen anyway.

22 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

If nothing else, Lucy & Co. have returned to a world where the movie The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford was never made.  Is there a movie in the new timeline called The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Lucy Preston?

So, because The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford never existed, does that mean Casey Affleck never got to become a respectable actor? Does that he didn't get nominated for an Oscar this morning, and his brother was the star of Manchester by the Sea? The possibilities are endless!