S07.E16: Homecoming

[BitterApple]

6 minutes ago, Maharincess said:

 

When Jenelle and Barbra were fighting in the car, Jenelle said "the only time we fight is because of Jace", so now on top of everything else this kid has to go through he'll now feel like it's his fault every time they fight.  

Aw, man, I didn't catch that when I watched on Monday. So in addition to all the other burdens the poor kid bears, he's responsible for the dysfunction between Jenelle and Barb. He's too young to understand that the fights have nothing to do with him, they're all about Jenelle acting like a spoiled brat because Barb is no longer jumping through hoops for her. 

[Maharincess]

I kept hoping Jace would get an explanation like "i don't mean it's your fault when we fight, i just mean we both love you so much we want the best for you but it's NOT your fault".  I know that's way too much to expect from Jenelle but I was hoping. 

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

On January 17, 2017 at 10:27 AM, FlowerofCarnage said:

I feel like no one has sat down with Isaac and had a serious conversation about what is happening.  It looks like they tell him things when the situation warrants it and expect him to just roll with it. 

 

On January 17, 2017 at 7:16 PM, BitterApple said:

That's actually not too horrible in the scheme of shitastic baby names. It's not something I'd pick, but I've heard much, much worse. A woman my mother works with named her son Elmo Phoenix. Let that one sink in for a minute. 

I can kind of see both sides of the spectrum regarding the Isaac/Javi issue. Yes, Javi inserted himself as a father figure into Isaac's life, but a lot of that was Kail's doing and she's already actively campaigning to make things as difficult as possible. As someone noted above, Javi is just a brief blip on the radar of Kail's dating history. Isaac is unfortunately going to have a long list of stepfather's by the time it's all said and done, so I don't know which is the better path to take: be honest and make the break now, or let Isaac believe the relationship will continue only to have it taper out when Kail and Javi refuse to meet in the middle? It's just such a messed up situation. 

 I feel so sorry for Isaac. He obviously thinks that whenever parents/step-parents spilt up, the kids get a room at each parent/step-parent's house. If it did work like that, poor Isaac (and many of the TM kids) would have a different bedroom in a different home for every night of the week by the time he's 17. I feel for the poor kid but I don't know how to go through this divorce without setting a precedent that Isaac gets visitation and a room with every one of Kail's future partners after they split.  I hope Javi, Kail, Jo, and Vee can work it out where Isaac still sees Javi while understanding that in the future, this isn't going to happen with any future exes. And the first step to that would be Kail not pushing that her new guy is a replacement dad for Isaac or Lincoln. I hope Jo and Vee stay together and happy - they can be the one stable, long-term relationship Isaac sees and their house can provide him stability,

Edited January 20, 2017 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[GreatKazu]

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

It's hard to say, but I think even without the outside articles and whatnot, I'd still have the same view of the girls as I do now. I don't need an article to tell me that Jenelle is a selfish, nasty bitch. No, I can just watch her berate the only person who has ever cared for her son full-time, while the poor kid sits in the backseat listening. 

That's what I meant about having eyes. I can clearly see the BS these girls are pulling. They think they can hide their addictions and dick-hopping ways. They can't.

59 minutes ago, Maharincess said:

I haven't watched the show in a long time but I watched the repeat of this episode last night.  I wish I hadn't. 

When Jenelle and Barbra were fighting in the car, Jenelle said "the only time we fight is because of Jace", so now on top of everything else this kid has to go through he'll now feel like it's his fault every time they fight.  

Jenelle shouldn't be allowed custody of a goldfish. 

Word.

You know, that wasn't the first time Jenelle has said that to Barb. She has mentioned that same comment to her dicks of the month as well. She may not have said it in front of Jace, but he will watch the show and hear what she said all those times.

Edited January 19, 2017 by GreatKazu

[BitterApple]

31 minutes ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

If it did work like that, poor Isaac (and many of the TM kids) would have a different bedroom in a different home for every night of the week by the time he's 17. 

See, and that's where the issues arise. As much as I think Kail's a miserable hosebeast, I have to admit, I wouldn't want my child rotating between three households either. I think that would cause way too much disruption for a six year-old. I think an ideal situation would occur if Kail could stop being such a bitch and have a somewhat fluid arrangement where Javi could pop over on his non-custody days and take the boys to the park or out for pizza for a couple hours. That way Isaac could see Javi without throwing off his whole schedule. But who am I kidding? It's never that easy with Kail.

Edited January 19, 2017 by BitterApple

[shelley1234]

To add to some of the TMs family history, Leah's mom got married and pregnant with her when she was 16 from a man she met at her church.  She married him and had the 3 kiddos by him.  They then divorced from Dawn's report because of Leah's bio dad's womanizing and drug abuse.  Dawn did remarry and Leah had a pretty consistent step dad for most of their growing up.  They separated and maybe divorced, but there are always rumors they are back together.  

Leah's story other than having twins and cameras around...is pretty similar to her mom.

[leighroda]

29 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

See, and that's where the issues arise. As much as I think Kail's a miserable hosebeast, I have to admit, I wouldn't want my child rotating between three households either. I think that would cause way too much disruption for a six year-old. I think an ideal situation would occur if Kail could stop being such a bitch and have a somewhat fluid arrangement where Javi could pop over on his non-custody days and take the boys to the park or out for pizza for a couple hours. That way Isaac could see Javi without throwing off his whole schedule. But who am I kidding? It's never that easy with Kail.

I agree, I don't think being shuffled between 3 houses is the best idea.  If it was my child I think I'd be ok with Isaac spending tim with Javi, and maybe even occasional sleepovers, but I wouldn't want him in the regular overnight rotation.  My issue with the whole thing is more over how it was handled by stringing Isaac along instead of coming up with a plan (which she said herself she always has) and implementing it in a way that doesn't alienate Javi, or Jo for that matter.

[MissMel]

Leah's mom had three kids by one man, and a second husband, until her kids were grown?  Thats a lot of years of with just 2 live-ins.  Leah has had 3, that I know of, in less than 7/8 years?  That includes two different visitation schedules for young children.  The only similarity I see is being pregnant at 16.  Did Momma Dawn have a sneak-in/back-up Robbie, too?

Edited January 20, 2017 by MissMel

[ChristmasJones]

I can picture a point in the future where Javi has a wife and a kid, and they are all hanging out with Jo and Vee at a BBQ.

Not much to post but just had to say I'm glad to see a few references to Karl on this thread. Makes me laugh every time.

And then there is Uncle ID Channel - living up to his nick name every time!!!!

[ChristmasJones]

also- I love seeing Chelsea, Cole and Aubrey so happy together. Aubrey is just the cutest little girl. I'm not a kid person, but she is my favorite on this show. I think they will be a great family. Cole seems very stable and I love how he is so loving toward Aubrey.

[Ziz]

Chelsea is handling the baby issue with Aubree perfectly. She was excited about the sonogram picture and showed it to Aubree. But it wasn't ALL ABOUT THE BABY. Because she then switched to showing Aubree pics of her own sonograms and baby pictures. To me, it showed that Chelsea was sharing her excitement with Aubree, but without making her feel left out or a second priority. 

[SheTalksShit]

On 1/16/2017 at 11:00 PM, Christina87 said:

Am I the only one who thinks Leah's family and friends are over her stupid rants? It seems like this season so far, and a lot of last season, the other person basically smiles and nods, but contributes nothing to the conversation. I love how Victoria just kept repeating, "he knows he's in the wrong because _____," dismissively, like she just wanted Leah to shut up and move on. Chasity has been like this lately too. It makes me wonder if they all get together and say, "Leah's drugged up AF, but let's agree with her on camera so she'll look better," but unfortunately are horrible actors. Another possibility is that maybe they just don't understand why she's so upset, so they find one decent point and cling to it for the duration of the conversation. In the past, Leah's supporters were so gossipy, and hanging onto her every word, but now they seem checked out. 

I think it's because Leah is always dramatic about things and repeats the same complaint/concern over and over and over and they've learned to just deal with it by nodding and smiling and half-listening because they've probably had these kinds of conversations a million times with her and discussed Jeremy at length. I think that, before, they weren't used to being filmed as much, so they were more alert and attentive to what she was saying while on camera - sort of performing for the cameras. 

Edited January 20, 2017 by SheTalksShit

[SheTalksShit]

On 1/17/2017 at 11:20 AM, CofCinci said:

Truth.  Javi should have added that both boys would share a room and Isaac would avoid 3 years of therapy  

Da real MVP award goes to: Jo Rivera.  He could be very petty and hurtful to Kail/Javi but he isn't because he is a father.  He has matured a lot in the last few years. It's clear how much he loves his son and tries to make decisions in his kid's best interest. 

I agree. Joe is lazy but he's also a kind person, methinks. And able to have a stable, functioning relationship, from the looks of it - he's been with Vee for like 5 years now. 

[SheTalksShit]

Kail was super bitchy and standoffish towards Javi when he got back.

It's pretty obvious she is DONE. 

I think Javi is trying to hang onto something that's been over for a long time. This woman has abused him in every way - verbally, physically, mentally, emotionally. She's made it more than clear that she feels smothered by him, but Javi just continues to hope for any sign of love or feelings towards him. 

[Brooklynista]

23 minutes ago, SheTalksShit said:

Kail was super bitchy and standoffish towards Javi when he got back.

It's pretty obvious she is DONE. 

I think Javi is trying to hang onto something that's been over for a long time. This woman has abused him in every way - verbally, physically, mentally, emotionally. She's made it more than clear that she feels smothered by him, but Javi just continues to hope for any sign of love or feelings towards him. 

I don't know how much Javi wants to hang on to Kail but he for damn sure wants to hang on to his MTV appearance check.

[HeySandyStrange]

46 minutes ago, SheTalksShit said:

Kail was super bitchy and standoffish towards Javi when he got back.

It's pretty obvious she is DONE.

Kail's head was never truly in their relationship in the first place. Their marriage was all about what she got out of it (stick it to Jo, benefits, have the "perfect" nuclear family).  Javi was just a young dope who liked getting his willie wet. Doomed from the start.

I think even if Kail had the nicest, kindest, greatest guy/girl in the world, the second they displeased her, she got bored, or something better came along she would toss them to the side. She'd be smart to stay single for a while. Javi will probably get married again soon. One would hope he matures a little and settles down this time with someone he is more compatible with. Jo and Corey did it, there might be a smidgeon of hope for their whinier second gen. counterpart.

Quote

I don't know how much Javi wants to hang on to Kail but he for damn sure wants to hang on to his MTV appearance check.

Hee, yeah, I wasn't getting from their scenes together that Javi was still head over heels or anything. He seemed fairly resigned. I wouldn't be surprised if half the reason that he was trying to open communication with Kail was because he was working with the crew to get a story. Living on an Airman's salary would be a hell of a let down after rolling in sweet MTV money.

Edited January 20, 2017 by HeySandyStrange

[poopchute]

49 minutes ago, SheTalksShit said:

This woman has abused him in every way - verbally, physically, mentally, emotionally.

Oh yes how could I have forgotten how she put  her hands on him!  She grabbed and forcefully shook his head if I'm remembering correctly.  What a piece of shit!

[Uncle JUICE]

This was also during tha ttime that they announced their divorce, then decided it'd make for better TV if they pretended to try to reconcile, which is why I think Javi seemed so out of sorts. I think he was expecting to have to act more, and Kailyn was just like nah, fuck that, we're really just getting divorced. Maybe it was right after MTV told them no, you cannot go on Marriage Boot Camp. 

[woodscommaelle]

Has it been discussed yet why Leah had a sticker on her shirt that said BATHROOM #3?

And Kail has a friend named Bone?  Ugh.

[SheTalksShit]

1 hour ago, Brooklynista said:

I don't know how much Javi wants to hang on to Kail but he for damn sure wants to hang on to his MTV appearance check.

Could be that, too, although Nathan and Adam and Jeremy and Corey are still on the show (and get paid almost as much as the Teen Moms, from what I hear) even though theyre not w/Leah anymore. Sometime last year, Adam went on an IG rant about having to pay child support to Chelsea and said MTV pays her about $250k per year, if I recall correctly, and he said they don't pay him as much, but pretty close. 

1 minute ago, woodscommaelle said:

Has it been discussed yet why Leah had a sticker on her shirt that said BATHROOM #3?

And Kail has a friend named Bone?  Ugh.

Maybe the kids are assigned bathrooms at school? Just a guess. 

[SheTalksShit]

1 hour ago, HeySandyStrange said:

Kail's head was never truly in their relationship in the first place. Their marriage was all about what she got out of it (stick it to Jo, benefits, have the "perfect" nuclear family).  Javi was just a young dope who liked getting his willie wet. Doomed from the start.

I think even if Kail had the nicest, kindest, greatest guy/girl in the world, the second they displeased her, she got bored, or something better came along she would toss them to the side. She'd be smart to stay single for a while. Javi will probably get married again soon. One would hope he matures a little and settles down this time with someone he is more compatible with. Jo and Corey did it, there might be a smidgeon of hope for their whinier second gen. counterpart.

Hee, yeah, I wasn't getting from their scenes together that Javi was still head over heels or anything. He seemed fairly resigned. I wouldn't be surprised if half the reason that he was trying to open communication with Kail was because he was working with the crew to get a story. Living on an Airman's salary would be a hell of a let down after rolling in sweet MTV money.

Yeah, he did seem resigned to the situation, but I saw in this season's trailer that Kail abruptly cuts him off, at some point, when theyre sitting face to face and says, "no, we're getting divorced, period! it's not like we were this happy couple!" 

Also, Kail kept saying how Javi keeps going back and forth on whether he wants the divorce. So I think maybe the reason Kail was so standoffish is because she felt that being more welcoming and open to talking to him would give him hope of reconciling. 

[guilfoyleatpp]

2 hours ago, woodscommaelle said:

Has it been discussed yet why Leah had a sticker on her shirt that said BATHROOM #3?

 

To label the moving boxes. Master bath, bathroom 2 and bathroom 3. They're pre-printed labels.

Edited January 20, 2017 by guilfoyleatpp

[shelley1234]

Javi wasn't holding on to anything IMO....especially since he was regularly getting fucked while he was deployed.  The Snapchat "friend" who then became his girlfriend when he was in the free and clear.  

[SheTalksShit]

10 hours ago, shelley1005 said:

Javi wasn't holding on to anything IMO....especially since he was regularly getting fucked while he was deployed.  The Snapchat "friend" who then became his girlfriend when he was in the free and clear.  

oh that's the same girl? I didn't know that. 

[HeySandyStrange]

Kail was also snuggling up to her male and female"friends" in pictures, so what was good for the goose was good for the gander. 

[GreatKazu]

57 minutes ago, HeySandyStrange said:

Kail was also snuggling up to her male and female"friends" in pictures, so what was good for the goose was good for the gander. 

Word.

[lovesnark]

On 1/19/2017 at 3:34 PM, shelley1005 said:

To add to some of the TMs family history, Leah's mom got married and pregnant with her when she was 16 from a man she met at her church.  She married him and had the 3 kiddos by him.  They then divorced from Dawn's report because of Leah's bio dad's womanizing and drug abuse.  Dawn did remarry and Leah had a pretty consistent step dad for most of their growing up.  They separated and maybe divorced, but there are always rumors they are back together.  

Leah's story other than having twins and cameras around...is pretty similar to her mom.

And, Dawn's parents agreed to let her marry the guy when she was a teenager only if they promised she wouldn't get pregnant for a few years. I think she was pregnant almost immediately after the wedding. Maroons, I tell ya, maroons!

[SheTalksShit]

2 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

Kail was also snuggling up to her male and female"friends" in pictures, so what was good for the goose was good for the gander. 

Oh, I'm sure Kail was the one who cheated, first and who moved on, first. She may not have admitted it to Javi at the time, but I remember during one of the episodes where they were fighting on FaceTime, Kail got a text from someone and quickly swiped it out of the way, but the cameras caught it, as did fans, and I forget the guy's name but Javi said it was the same guy who they'd previously fought about her texting. But she was talking to that guy before she even filed and I think that's at least part of what made her ultimately decide to divorce him. 

Once it was clear Kail wanted a divorce, Javi decided to move on, too, but I don't think he would have cheated on her before she said she wanted a divorce, IMO. Javi was insecure and needy in the relationship but he was also very eager to please Kail and eager to make it work, IMO. He was committed until she flat out told him she wasn't. 

[DangerousMinds]

Having male friends and texting them does not mean she was sleeping with them. Maybe she was, but hiding a text from the camera doesn't prove that, IMO. I would have hidden texts too because Javi was such a controlling little douche.

[HeySandyStrange]

See, while I agree Javi was acting very insecure and needy, I can't say he didn't have a reason. In my mind, if you have nothing to hide you shouldn't have a problem letting your spouse see your messages once in a while. To me Kail's behavior was very suspicious, regardless if Javi was being a nagging jerk or not.

Also, there is more then just physical cheating. There is also emotional cheating and also complaining and tearing down your partner behind his/her back. I wouldn't have put that past Kail either.

Edited January 21, 2017 by HeySandyStrange

[shelley1234]

I'd never ever ever let my partner have access to my phone or my email or FB or my bank account.  I can be in a relationship with someone and still demand respect of my autonomy.  

I will say I am glad those two are done with one another.  They both abused one another.  They both tried to control one another and often succeeded.  It seems like they both cheated.    I just hope they can at least try to be co-parents to Lincoln.  I have my doubts like everyone else, but I do like how positive both are talking about each other in social media in current time.  I'll just cross my fingers and toes that it lasts.

[Maharincess]

In a real and secure relationship there should be no problem with your partner having access to your phone/email whatever.  If you're secure and trust your partner you shouldn't have a problem with them having access to your accounts or your money.  It's sad to me that people hide their passwords and don't let their partners have access to their accounts, any accounts, including bank accounts.  If you trust the person enough to lie with them every night but you don't trust them in other ways, your relationship isn't very secure.   I've been in a relationship for 28 years this May, I have all of his info and he has all of mine.  If a person doesn't trust their partner to have their info, it's not much of a relationship in my opinion.  I have his info and he has mine because we trust and respect each other.  As far as I know he hasn't been into my accounts but I couldn't care less if he did.  

The types or relationships where you hide and keep stuff from your partner will go the way of Karl and Javi.  

Edited January 22, 2017 by Maharincess

[mamadrama]

9 hours ago, shelley1005 said:

I'd never ever ever let my partner have access to my phone or my email or FB or my bank account.  I can be in a relationship with someone and still demand respect of my autonomy.  

 

4 hours ago, Maharincess said:

In a real and secure relationship there should be no problem with your partner having access to your phone/email whatever.  If you're secure and trust your partner you shouldn't have a problem with them having access to your accounts or your money.  It's sad to me that people hide their passwords and don't let their partners have access to their accounts, any accounts, including bank accounts.  If you trust the person enough to lie with them every night but you don't trust them in other ways, your relationship isn't very secure.  

I agree with Maharincess. I've been married for a decade and I could access any of my husband's accounts if I wanted. I don't, unless he's away and wants me to look something up for him, because I have no reason to. He could get into mine if he wanted. I have no idea if he does and I don't care. We keep the romance alive by still maintaining some mystery with one another, but we don't actually have secrets from each other. We tell each other everything. Heck, I check out other men in front of him and sometimes tease him about pretty women. It's just fun banter. I enjoy this kind of openness. I was in other serious relationships before him and never felt satisfied. I was a very jealous, controlling person with low self esteem. With our level of trust, though, I've never felt like that in our relationship. We still have autonomy. I have interests outside of our marriage-hobbies I enjoy, TV shows I like that he doesn't watch with me (hello Teen Mom!), friends that I have "girls' nights" with, etc. But knowing that we almost literally have nothing to hide from one another is what has made me feel more confident in our relationship, and what has resulted in the decade of marriage we've had so far. The trust doesn't stem from the fact that I get into his emails and accounts and see that I have nothing to fear-it's knowing that those things are open to me if I wanted to. 

 

Kail, on the other hand. Who knows. These guys and girls are still young and still incredibly immature in a lot of different ways. Having children has made them grow up in one sense, but they still have some emotional growing to do. 

[Maharincess]

@mamadrama, I'm the same way.  I know what my "husband" likes in women and I'm always pointing out pretty girls to home when we're out.  I've never been a jealous person, if I was in a position where I felt I should be jealous, I wouldn't stay in the relationship. I also wouldn't stay in a relationship where we fought all the time.  I don't understand that shit. 

I put husband in quotation marks because we've lived together for almost 27 years and 8 months but we're not married and have no plans to be.  We don't want to rush into anything. Lol. 

[SheTalksShit]

1 hour ago, mamadrama said:

 

I agree with Maharincess. I've been married for a decade and I could access any of my husband's accounts if I wanted. I don't, unless he's away and wants me to look something up for him, because I have no reason to. He could get into mine if he wanted. I have no idea if he does and I don't care. We keep the romance alive by still maintaining some mystery with one another, but we don't actually have secrets from each other. We tell each other everything. Heck, I check out other men in front of him and sometimes tease him about pretty women. It's just fun banter. I enjoy this kind of openness. I was in other serious relationships before him and never felt satisfied. I was a very jealous, controlling person with low self esteem. With our level of trust, though, I've never felt like that in our relationship. We still have autonomy. I have interests outside of our marriage-hobbies I enjoy, TV shows I like that he doesn't watch with me (hello Teen Mom!), friends that I have "girls' nights" with, etc. But knowing that we almost literally have nothing to hide from one another is what has made me feel more confident in our relationship, and what has resulted in the decade of marriage we've had so far. The trust doesn't stem from the fact that I get into his emails and accounts and see that I have nothing to fear-it's knowing that those things are open to me if I wanted to. 

 

Kail, on the other hand. Who knows. These guys and girls are still young and still incredibly immature in a lot of different ways. Having children has made them grow up in one sense, but they still have some emotional growing to do. 

I think all of you have a point. I agree that everyone's entitled to privacy and that demanding free and unlimited 24/7 access to each other's phone and emails is probably a bit much for some people - myself included - but if there was a specific guy that my guy was concerned about and I had nothing to hide, I'd show him our convo just to put his mind at ease. The fact that Kail wouldn't do that doesn't mean she's sleeping w/him, but given her track record, it sure seems likely, to me. She cheated on Jo with Jordan, who she met at work. So, it wouldn't surprise me if she also cheated on Javi (even if it was just emotional, at first) with some guy she met at school. 

[shelley1234]

If someone said they didn't trust me and only would if they had access to my phone anytime or we had to have one of those IMO pathetic couple FB accounts then I would drop that person like a hot potato.  Not how I roll.  Also doesn't mean my relationships weren't real relatiopnships or were doomed for a fate like Javi and Kail either.  IMO.  YMMV.  

Edited January 22, 2017 by shelley1005

[imjagain]

On 1/19/2017 at 6:01 PM, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

 

 I feel so sorry for Isaac. He obviously thinks that whenever parents/step-parents spilt up, the kids get a room at each parent/step-parent's house. If it did work like that, poor Isaac (and many of the TM kids) would have a different bedroom in a different home for every night of the week by the time he's 17. I feel for the poor kid but I don't know how to go through this divorce without setting a precedent that Isaac gets visitation and a room with every one of Kail's future partners after they split.  I hope Javi, Kail, Jo, and Vee can work it out where Isaac still sees Javi while understanding that in the future, this isn't going to happen with any future exes. And the first step to that would be Kail not pushing that her new guy is a replacement dad for Isaac or Lincoln. I hope Jo and Vee stay together and happy - they can be the one stable, long-term relationship Isaac sees and their house can provide him stability,

The more I think about poor Isaac,  the more pissed I get.  Kail totally pushed Javi into the replacement daddy  situation.  Yes,  Javi took part,  but as Isaac's mother it's her job to set boundaries and put her child first. The part that pisses me off is not even that she wanted  Isaac to see Javi as a father,  it's that she did it to try and hurt/replace Jo.  She wanted to get back at Jo because Jo had moved on with Vee.  Now this poor kid is confused.  Every time he said "but why?" my heart hurt for the little guy. 

[zenme]

Kail was playing games and using Isaac, and now it's Isaac that's having to deal with the hurt. Some mother! 

[Christina87]

3 hours ago, shelley1005 said:

If someone said they didn't trust me and only would if they had access to my phone anytime or we had to have one of those IMO pathetic couple FB accounts then I would drop that person like a hot potato.  Not how I roll.  Also doesn't mean my relationships weren't real relatiopnships or were doomed for a fate like Javi and Kail either.  IMO.  YMMV.  

I agree. I've luckily never been cheated on, so I guess I can be trusting and naive to a fault. If my boyfriend was concerned about some guy, I would gladly hand my phone over and let him look, but always having the password is a bit much for me. There are some conversations I just don't want him to see, and what about other peoples' privacy? Do I really want him reading about my best friend's marital problems? 

It's so easy to cheat nowadays that you're never going to catch everything. There is always a newer, sneakier way to contact someone that doesn't leave a trail. I'd rather just trust him, and hopefully he will never do anything to break that trust. 

[BitterApple]

I think regardless of what kind of guy Kail's with, clingy like Javi or a guy who gives her space, she'll never be happy. For whatever reason she doesn't function well as a unit. Her mindset is always "I" versus "we". A good relationship is give and take, and Kail isn't big on giving or compromising. It's her way, all the time, and she doesn't seem to be maturing in that department as time goes on. 

[GreatKazu]

Maharincess has posted it before and she posted it again and I can't give her enough likes about the trust issue. ShetalksShit I agree. Love your username btw.

Kail started out her relationship with Javi in a rocky way. One month after she pushed him to move in with her, she began abusing him. The trust and respect in that relationship went out the window at that moment. There is more to trust in a relationship than what is being expressed with this issue about male friends and texts. Trust comes in many forms.

Javi was being abused. He was no different than any female who is in an abusive relationship. He continued with the relationship, sadly, as many victims tend to do. Having been in a similar relationship many years ago, I can understand the dynamics of a DV relationship. Kail knew once she laid her bear claws on Javi and he returned to her, she was in control. Trust was never regained and therefore, trust in other matters would never be established. We then watched Kail as she manipulated and encouraged Javi into forcing Jo out of Isaac's life. This is a guy who is now married to this abusive person. He better go along with her bullshit. That does not mean he is not at all accountable for his part in what he played as I have mentioned my disgust at him for all of that, I just try to wonder how much of this was due to him not wanting to feel he is responsible for causing discord by not going along with Kail's plans. The thing with Kail is, she will paint the picture she wants to paint regardless of the truth. She is the martyr, the the victim, the one who is always getting shitted on. In some instances, yes, she has been. But that was not always the case. Her outlook is, she will be the one to get you before you get her. Javi believed her claims of Jo, the Riveras, everyone who ever did her wrong and no doubt, felt like he had to protect her and be there by her side against all who did her wrong.

With no trust there, it only gets worse as time goes by. Kail is clearly not happy in the relationship. Per her words in one episode to her friend, the five years were not happy ones. It was no longer two years, it is now FIVE years. Kail being a social butterfly and being in college was likely looking around at what is out there and feeling regrets at the choice she made with Javi. With that mindset, cracks would begin to show in the relationship. Javi picks up on her behavior, perhaps she is feeling distant and not showing him a lot of affection or PDA, the kind of things that happen in a broken relationship. He then begins to wonder what is going on. Kail is not going to tell him the truth. No communication. No honesty in therapy. It was now on Javi to figure out what is going on. Not unusual for any partner to wonder if there might be any kind of cheating going on when things begin to go sour.

BTW I have had males text me. But, before any texts are exchanged I always let my husband know I met a male and will now be in contact with this guy for whatever reason. It is called courtesy. It has nothing to do with trust issues. I do the same with any new females I am in contact with. I have even met a couple of males for lunch when we needed to get together to discuss projects we are working on. No problems. We have a trust that I wish many couples could have. We started out our relationship on a strong, healthy foundation with no lies, no abuse, no dishonesty, and without luggage. Kail has none of that.

Edited January 22, 2017 by GreatKazu

[HeySandyStrange]

8 hours ago, SheTalksShit said:

I think all of you have a point. I agree that everyone's entitled to privacy and that demanding free and unlimited 24/7 access to each other's phone and emails is probably a bit much for some people - myself included - but if there was a specific guy that my guy was concerned about and I had nothing to hide, I'd show him our convo just to put his mind at ease.

This is my stance, as well. I don't think someone's partner deserves unlimited access to all social media, phone, or bank accounts, but a trusting relationship is built on not having a problem with your partner being able to see those things without you freaking out. Something similar happened to a friend of my husband's that happened between Javi and Kail-he was with a girl who was constantly texting male "friends", including her ex-husband, and guarding her phone like Ft. Knox. And yes, she was having flirtations with those men as he found out. He was paranoid with his new girl but she had nothing to hide and tossed him her phone. Needless to say, him and his fiancé are doing great. So it is hard to totally blame Javi since that secretive behavior is usually an indication of something more going on, at least on a dangerous emotional adultery level.

Quote

I think regardless of what kind of guy Kail's with, clingy like Javi or a guy who gives her space, she'll never be happy. For whatever reason she doesn't function well as a unit. Her mindset is always "I" versus "we". A good relationship is give and take, and Kail isn't big on giving or compromising. It's her way, all the time, and she doesn't seem to be maturing in that department as time goes on.

I think the best case scenario would be for Kail to stay single for a good, looooong while. Like GreatKazu  was saying, I think her buyer's remorse over marrying Javi so young and wanting to be a free, glamorous, college girl/Kardashian knockoff will keep her single for a while, which is a good thing. She either needs to seriously mature and get some therapy or come to a realization about how capable she really is at having long-term relationships. But I also see her being single for a while and when her college friends start marrying and having kids, feeling like she has to be a part of the herd and jumping into another serious relationship without thinking. She always wants to keep up with the Joneses but doesn't think about how suitable that lifestyle is for her. I'd actually give her some props if she could admit that she isn't cut out for marriage or monogamy and needs some help, but I doubt she'll have that self-awareness for a very long time. Self-awareness is a 4 letter word to these girls, lol.

[zenme]

I agree. Kail needs to be alone AS she visits a therapist regularly. Until she fixes herself, every relationship is going to be unhealthy.

[leighroda]

I'm somewhere in the middle, I'll preface that I'm not currently in a relationship, but my last one ultimately ended because he cheated. 

I prefer privacy, and don't need to share every detail with anyone, that being said I have also not given anyone any reason not to trust me. I also don't think a little transparency is too much to ask, if someone doubted me, my feelings would undoubtedly be a little hurt, but I like to think I'd understand and would be willing to show whatever it is they need to see... I don't have anything to hide, I just keep to myself. 

I cant say that I blame Javi, I think he's a bit extreme and takes the controlling too far, but Kail cheated on national television, so I wouldn't have a high bar for things she wouldn't do. But, I also wouldn't want to be in a relationship where I couldn't trust someone so much that I want to see everything. I hate to keep saying that he knew what he was getting into, but he did, Javi had something most of us don't have when we start dating someone, he had seasons of footage on her behavior... yes I would give someone some space for editing etc, but for the most part he knew what Kail was like.  Not only did he have the advantage of video footage, but they had mutual friends, what more did he need?

[shelley1234]

We all know when Javi came home from deployment he wouldn't have handed his phone over to Kail to look through.  No way.  No how.  Nope.  Or any other time for the matter.  He had different rules for his wife he considered his property than he did for himself.  

[heatherchandler]

1 hour ago, GreatKazu said:

Maharincess has posted it before and she posted it again and I can't give her enough likes about the trust issue. ShetalksShit I agree. Love your username btw.

Kail started out her relationship with Javi in a rocky way. One month after she pushed him to move in with her, she began abusing him. The trust and respect in that relationship went out the window at that moment. There is more to trust in a relationship than what is being expressed with this issue about male friends and texts. Trust comes in many forms.

...

I agree with every word of your post but I shortened it for reader sake.

It really has to do with the dynamic set up by Kail, abusive and manipulative in her actions.  

Also want to add that my husband and I have access to each other's passwords, etc - but have never felt the need to use them, or maybe we are just too lazy and don't feel like digging into anything.  

Having your password available to your partner does not take away your autonomy.

[SheTalksShit]

1 hour ago, shelley1005 said:

We all know when Javi came home from deployment he wouldn't have handed his phone over to Kail to look through.  No way.  No how.  Nope.  Or any other time for the matter.  He had different rules for his wife he considered his property than he did for himself.  

No, but it was already decided they were getting a divorce, at that point, so it woulda been none of her business who he talks to. But I think, before they decided to divorce, he would have showed her his phone if she had asked. 

[shelley1234]

I think Javi would never ever ever ever ever with an extra side of never.  IMO.  

[SheTalksShit]

And I don't believe for a minute that Kail would be all about privacy and trust if SHE were the one feeling jealous/insecure in the relationship. no way, no how. she'd be going through her guys phone, emails and Facebook like it's an FBI investigation. 

1 minute ago, shelley1005 said:

I think Javi would never ever ever ever ever with an extra side of never.  IMO.  

how can you say that? when he asked to see her phone, remember he said, "we should have each other's passwords." keyword being EACH OTHER. I think he woulda just been happy Kail even gave a shit enough to want access, bc I think he sensed, for years, that Kail didn't really love him or care about him in that way. 

[GreatKazu]

8 minutes ago, SheTalksShit said:

No, but it was already decided they were getting a divorce, at that point, so it woulda been none of her business who he talks to. But I think, before they decided to divorce, he would have showed her his phone if she had asked. 

Bingo.

I sure as hell wouldn't have expected him to do any phone sharing especially since the Hulk decided to check out of the relationship at least two years prior and papers had been filed. What should have happened is, Kail should have told Javi two years prior she was no longer wanting to be in the marriage rather than continue her bullshit.

Edited January 22, 2017 by GreatKazu