Tara Ariano January 9, 2017 Share January 9, 2017 Quote Leah gets an ominous letter from the church accusing her of provoking hate crimes and sits down with a young man who committed one of those crimes. Later: she considers other methods of action. Link to comment
shelley1234 January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 I don't know how I feel about this episode highlighting Reisdorf. I get that Scientology played a role in what happened with him, however he still did what he did. He committed an act of violence and that shouldn't be discounted just because he did it against someone who is pretty reprehensible. Reisdorf still seems unwell. I hope he continues to get treatment. I do get a kick out of Sweeney and Rinder now being on the same side now....fighting the good fight. It's also amazing that there is no bitterness towards Rinder. I think that now that he is out and sees everything in the light of day.....they understand that the Rinder in front of them isn't the Rinder that made their lives hell. I also think they realize that Rinder on their side is a huge asset. They get to look behind the curtain in a big way and for a reporter, that has to be exciting. I also think they enjoy that the same passion and vigor that Rinder went after them, he's now going after Scientology. I enjoy that as well. Also, hearing Leah talking about why they deny Xenu. One, they get charged 100K if they do. Zoinks. Two, they really do convince their people that you need to be ready to hear about the aliens or you may get hurt or die. What rubbish in a way that it is almost comical. South Park told me about the alien invasion theory years ago. Still alive!!!! Keep it up Leah! Who knew that she could be such a thorn in Scientology's side. I think they didn't expect her tenacity and IMO, it's delicious! 16 Link to comment
mbaywife123 January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 To be continued.........Yes please!! 21 Link to comment
tawny411 January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 I was so happy to see the "to be continued." I'm going to miss this show until we get the new episode. I admire Leah and Mike so much for what they're doing. Now they've got three journalists working with them. And hopefully lawyers. Maybe something can finally be done about this awful cult. 23 Link to comment
Popular Post HunterHunted January 11, 2017 Popular Post Share January 11, 2017 (edited) I'm not even sure that charging members $100K is legal without a nondisclosure agreement. I feel like they mentioned having them sign a bunch of forms before they revealed the secret. Like if that doesn't give you some indication that this is sketchy, I don't know what would. I thought of 3 things when watching this. We need: A change.org petition to have the IRS reconsider the tax exemption; A Go Fund Me campaign to raise money for members of the production crew who might be harassed and defamed by Scientology; and A Change.org petitions to Google and Bing to have Scientology smear sites appear lower in the search results when searching for Leah, Mike, or any of the other individuals who decided to speak out against Scientology on this program. Edited January 12, 2017 by HunterHunted 26 Link to comment
3girlsforus January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 When does harrasement become illegal? 4 Link to comment
mbaywife123 January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 8 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said: When does harrasement become illegal? When it becomes slander or physical. 2 Link to comment
Popular Post 3girlsforus January 11, 2017 Popular Post Share January 11, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, mbaywife123 said: When it becomes slander or physical. It seems that constantly calling people child molesters, wife beaters, or standing outside their home with a sign saying beware of this person is pretty slanderous. Edited January 11, 2017 by 3girlsforus 25 Link to comment
Wings January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 (edited) This series is necessary and crucial. Everyone who leaves has a horrific story to tell. I want more for season 2. There are many questions to be answered. I want to know more than personal stories. Edited January 11, 2017 by wings707 7 Link to comment
mbaywife123 January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 1 minute ago, 3girlsforus said: It seems that constantly calling people child molesters, wife beaters, or standing outside their home with a sign saying beware of this person is pretty slanderous. True, but I guess it depends on how deep someone's pockets are to defend themselves and their charachter against a billion dollar "church". 9 Link to comment
Popular Post fountain January 11, 2017 Popular Post Share January 11, 2017 I felt bad for Brandon. I don't really think shattering a window is that huge a crime. I think his larger issue in life (compared to the felony) is that he is bipolar, which presents many challenges. If I were hiring and he said "look up my felony, I threw a hammer through a COS window", I would get it. With more and more exposure and Brandon leading with what he felony was for, I am sure he will be okay. He also still has his parents and one brother for support. 31 Link to comment
Popular Post 3girlsforus January 11, 2017 Popular Post Share January 11, 2017 49 minutes ago, shelley1005 said: I don't know how I feel about this episode highlighting Reisdorf. I get that Scientology played a role in what happened with him, however he still did what he did. He committed an act of violence and that shouldn't be discounted just because he did it against someone who is pretty reprehensible. Reisdorf still seems unwell. I hope he continues to get treatment. I don't think they were denying that he did something wrong. I think the point was that they made someone with mental health issues worse and then when he snapped they piled on. They didn't care at all about him at all. It was a hammer through a window. That kind of thing has a large spectrum of possibilities of how to handle it. He spent 19 days in a psychiatric facility so there is no question he was having a serious episode. Like they said, other churches would have looked at the situation and extended mercy. He didn't have a history of hate speech etc. but the CO$ wants him prosecuted like Dylan Roof. It does sound like there is a potential for his record to be adjusted or expunged in the future. If that is true it means that the CO$ got to decide to press charges but they don't get to decide how he's punished. They are only so powerful. I suspect the expunging etc is dependent on his behavior and psychiatric treatment. So that's a good thing. Hopefully the continued harassment from the CO$ won't derail his progress. 34 Link to comment
mbaywife123 January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said: It seems that constantly calling people child molesters, wife beaters, or standing outside their home with a sign saying beware of this person is pretty slanderous. Also remember that the "church" claimed in writing that "Fair Gaming" is not part of is official doctrines any longer. The "church" would just claim that these "unknown" members caught on video are acting under their own "free" will(s) to defend their own religious beliefs. The "church" knows how to walk the legal fine line. Edited January 11, 2017 by mbaywife123 Hit post too soon 4 Link to comment
mbaywife123 January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 I hope Mike, Leah and the rest can find some good attny' to take on Muffin and company. I would contribute to a go fund me for this! 6 Link to comment
green January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 1 hour ago, tawny411 said: I was so happy to see the "to be continued." I'm going to miss this show until we get the new episode. I admire Leah and Mike so much for what they're doing. Now they've got three journalists working with them. And hopefully lawyers. Maybe something can finally be done about this awful cult. Well we have the Reddit extra episode next week to fill in so it isn't like you have to wait 2 weeks for the part 2 of the "to be continued" episode and have nothing in between. Link to comment
zxy556575 January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 Congrats and thanks to Leah, Mike, A&E, and producers Eli Holzman and Aaron Saidman and showrunner Alex Weresow for having the guts to put themselves on the line to do this show. As even hard-nosed reporter Tony Ortega said, it's scary to be followed, smeared, intimidated and perhaps even sued. Such a crock of shit for Scientology to try to make Brandon blame Leah and others for inciting a hate crime. I understand what they went through but still want to mentally shake the Reisdorfs for leaving their sons unprepared to resist Scientology, even after they themselves repudiated it. Sigh. So many people "leave" the organization but never really examine their ingrained thought processes. 14 Link to comment
HunterHunted January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, mbaywife123 said: When it becomes slander or physical. Except that it's rare for a prosecutor to bring an action for criminal defamation. There are probably a dozen cases a year tops. Not that I wish for more deaths, but then a prosecutor might be able to use all of their behavior and actions to charge members of Scientology with criminal conspiracy or bring a RICO case. 54 minutes ago, mbaywife123 said: Also remember that the "church" claimed in writing that "Fair Gaming" is not part of is official doctrines any longer. The "church" would just claim that these "unknown" members caught on video are acting under their own "free" will(s). The "church" knows how to walk the legal fine line. They can claim that, but a prosecutor is entitled to discovery and to subpoena documents. Scientology has tons of money. They're secretive, paranoid, and withholding. It's probably a case you would have to work backwards starting from the harassment, which is not enough of a crime for police to investigate. However, there is a legitimate question about how the individual members found out information about the journalists if Fair Gaming is an outdated practice. It would be hilarious to see Scientology try to defend itself and claim that Fair Gaming isn't a thing, but we disseminated Tony's name, address, phone number, wife's name, and place of business to every member. In all of these videos, we see journalists and critics accosted by 5 or 6 Scientologists outside the centers. Next thing you know, 5 different Scientologists are harassing everyone in the journalist or critic's neighborhood. But somehow Fair Gaming doesn't exist. It doesn't pass the smell test. You've got to love the irony of Scientology using Brandon's Tarasoff letter as evidence of his instability and dangerousness. When I heard Leah read from it, I thought are they fucking serious. The hypocrisy! Edited January 11, 2017 by HunterHunted 7 Link to comment
mbaywife123 January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 A hint to CO$ members who placed charges on their credit cards: Initiate a charge back for never received or unauthorized mail order/telephone order, proof of return, time limits do apply as well as delivery/ return signatures. It will cost the CO$ a shit ton of time and money to send their "book club" members items registered/certified mail. Also if something shows up unannounced USPS or otherwise and you did not order it you can keep it for free, that is the postal law and you do not have to return it, throw it in the garbage and there is not anything the sender can do to you. 1 Link to comment
mbaywife123 January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 15 minutes ago, HunterHunted said: Except that it's rare for a prosecutor to bring an action for criminal defamation. There are probably a dozen cases a year tops. Not that I wish for more deaths, but then a prosecutor might be able to use all of their behavior and actions to charge members of Scientology with criminal conspiracy or bring a RICO case. They can claim that, but a prosecutor is entitled to discovery and to subpoena documents. Scientology has tons of money. They're secretive, paranoid, and withholding. It's probably a case you would have to work backwards starting from the harassment, which is not enough of a crime for police to investigate. However, there is a legitimate question about how the individual members found out information about the journalists if Fair Gaming is an outdated practice. It would be hilarious to see Scientology try to defend itself and claim that Fair Gaming isn't a thing, but we disseminated Tony's name, address, phone number, wife's name, and place of business to every member. In all of these videos, we see journalists and critics accosted by 5 or 6 Scientologists outside the centers. Next thing you know, 5 different Scientologists are harassingredients everyone in the journalist or critic's neighborhood. It doesn't pass the smell test. You've got to love the irony of Scientology using Brandon's Tarasoff letter as evidence of his instability and dangerousness. When I heard Leah read from it, I thought are they fucking serious. The hypocrisy! We are on the same page about this, I brought up RICO many episodes ago. The " church" would probably claim religious cofidentialty in regards to their written communications and auditing file records and dig their heels in HARD. Long court battles ahead, I think the IRS removing their "church" and tax free status is key to "blowing" this can of worms wide open. I think that the minor's files over the years are key to bringing them down. 15 Link to comment
Court January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 I think this was such an important episode. It sheds light on how the church treats people with mental illness. I knew they signed believe in it but didn't know they locked people up for days at a time and then did intense auditing. It's cruel. 6 Link to comment
Vicky8675309 January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 practicing medicine without a license! That's illegal but I'm sure they would find a way around it. They claim brain disorders don't exist (or something like that)....I can't wrap my mind around this! 2 Link to comment
spiderpig January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 Riveted as usual by this episode. Having Sweeney, Ortega and Bunker seated across the table from Leah and Mike gave me hope that together they might actually get something done about this criminal cult. Watching the old footage of screaming Tommy Davis had me wondering once again - whatever happened to him, anyway? Did he run off to Parts Unknown with Shelly? To be continued... 6 Link to comment
dwarmed January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 I can't believe Brandon got a felony conviction. The authorities clearly acknowledged he had a serious mental illness by taking him to a psychiatric hospital instead of jail and forcing him to take medicine by court order. How is that not the best evidence of not guilty by mental defect? Did he have a shitty lawyer or did Co$ bribe the judge? I hope he's appealing that conviction, because that's ridiculous. Nobody said what he did was right, including Brandon, but he didn't have any control of what he did during a manic episode. Furthermore, the episode is proof that Co$ tech didn't do shit to help him It's really too bad this family didn't warn and protect their kids against Co$ just to avoid upsetting family members still in the church. They know the church well. They should have seen that it wouldn't end well. My favorite part was Leah calling Mike a dick for all his fair gaming. I can't imagine how he lives with that and faces the people he's hurt. Good thing he has a sense of humor. 21 Link to comment
Arwen Evenstar January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 All I can say is that I'm riveted. Can't say I knew much about Scientology before this, other than maybe they were a little weird, but wow, just wow--I had no idea just how insidious, pernicious, and messed up this whole institution is. First of all, a church tells you who they are and what they believe in up front, and you are free to come and go as you please. If you decide it's not for you and you decide to go somewhere else, you don't get stalked and followed, and don't make you pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to belong and acquire knowledge.This place is a cult, and a very far reaching, scary, and dangerous one that turns friends and families against one another. Sadly, for years, Leah and others believed they were making a difference and doing good, and I get that it must have been hard for her to denounce something she was committed to 24/7/365. Just glad that she got to leave along with her mother, husband, and daughter. They have got courage to call this institution out for what it is. I'm still cringing from what I've learned already. 17 Link to comment
bosawks January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 Brandon should look into being certified as a peer specialist. With all of his life experience I bet you he'd be good at it. 2 Link to comment
shelley1234 January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 Just being mentally ill doesn't make you not responsible for your actions. It's a very high bar to be found not guilty in that regard. It's too bad he wasn't offered some kind of Mental Health Court to have the felony dropped to a misdemeanor. The way he talked about maybe getting it changed to a misdemeanor let me think that maybe there is something like that going on. I doubt he can appeal the conviction. There are also very few avenues there. However, I just hope he continues to work on getting well. He still clearly isn't out of the forest. Yes, Leah calling Mike a dick for Fair Gaming people was awesome. All of this is so horrible, so sometimes they just have to joke and laugh. And I love the idea that Mike and the group of reporters are now actual, legit friends. I mean...what a kick in the pants to Scientology! In the Going Clear documentary, Mike talked with Sweeney and basically told him the ways they were psychologically messing with him. It was so interesting to watch him lay it out to the person he (and Tommy) were doing it to. 10 Link to comment
Brattinella January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 I missed this episode, was it the finale? I will have to search for it and watch before I comment here. 1 Link to comment
fountain January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 This episode highlighted how bat shit crazy LRH really was. I mean I thought it before but the fact that he used the case of one person as proof of a "treatment plan" working and wrote that it was just one person in actual church documents is just over the top. The old interview with Leah when the talk of aliens and her and the other guy's weird denial kind of explains some of the other celebrity interviews. I had thought others maybe weren't high on the bridge and actually don't know but it is probably the fees and death. 5 Link to comment
Primetimer January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 And more questions sparked by 'Enemies Of The Church'! View the full article Link to comment
tobeannounced January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 (edited) I wish I could have been in on that Reddit AMA. I would love to know, if it weren't for the tiny titan Miscavige, if the bedrock tenets of Scientology are something Leah and Mike, et al, would still practice. Edited January 11, 2017 by tobeannounced 2 Link to comment
laurakaye January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 9 hours ago, wings707 said: This series is necessary and crucial. I get it. Everyone who leaves has a horrific story to tell. We get that. I want more for season 2. There are many questions to be answered. Abuse, disconnection happens, abuse in Sea Or is over the top. Got it. I want to know more than this. I got it! I was riveted by this seasons's background stories, every single one. I'm wondering if this was the season to set the foundation, and the next will show us more of what is happening to Leah, Rinder, etc., as a result of having been on the show. The CO$ is going to be awfully busy dealing with every last person associated with this show, up to and including the camera operators, the lighting guy, Leah's hair and makeup staff, etc. My heart ached for Brandon and his family. They kept showing family pictures and I was thinking, there's a mom and dad with three handsome sons...they should be going on camping trips and watching their boys play soccer and having family dinners, etc. Instead, they are just one of so many families forced to live apart and disconnected. So sad. Leah, keep fighting the good fight! 9 Link to comment
Popular Post alannaofdoom January 11, 2017 Popular Post Share January 11, 2017 Guys I am thrilled to announce that I have just made a major breakthrough in our understanding of the laws of probability. If you flip a coin, it will land heads up one hundred percent of the time. I mean, a sample size of one was good enough for LRH - it's good enough for me! 42 Link to comment
TaraS1 January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 I need someone to do an introspection rundown on me, to rid me of the thoughts I've always had that Tommy Davis - that horrible little weasel - is kinda hot. I'm sorry. If you all need to file knowledge reports on me about this, I understand. 20 Link to comment
Trace January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 This show upsets me and makes me stabby. Certain things echo through my mind while watching, for example: Surely Miscavige is an underground Nazi training others to be so; whatever happened to basic human rights? If the government does not shut this cult down, then they owe Waco an apology! 11 Link to comment
Sew Sumi January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 4 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said: All I can say is that I'm riveted. Can't say I knew much about Scientology before this, other than maybe they were a little weird, but wow, just wow--I had no idea just how insidious, pernicious, and messed up this whole institution is. First of all, a church tells you who they are and what they believe in up front, and you are free to come and go as you please. If you decide it's not for you and you decide to go somewhere else, you don't get stalked and followed, and don't make you pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to belong and acquire knowledge.This place is a cult, and a very far reaching, scary, and dangerous one that turns friends and families against one another. Sadly, for years, Leah and others believed they were making a difference and doing good, and I get that it must have been hard for her to denounce something she was committed to 24/7/365. Just glad that she got to leave along with her mother, husband, and daughter. They have got courage to call this institution out for what it is. I'm still cringing from what I've learned already. @Arwen Evenstar Book club? I am sooo down the rabbit hole that nothing about this episode was a surprise. :( Reading Going Clear has been a revelation; the documentary only touched the surface about the contents in the book. Jenna and Ron Miscavige's books are also must-reads. 4 Link to comment
lovelynn January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 I can't fathom someone from my church billing me for explaining a tenet of Christianity to someone seeking understanding. I have asked friends random questions about their religions in the past and they were happy to satisfy my curiosity. The secrecy Scientology relies on to gain and retain members doesn't mesh with my own experiences with religion. Is there another religion that requires members to sign contracts on joining? Do people actually pay the $100K fee if they slip up? It continues to baffle me that the Reisdorf boys were raised on the periphery of it but their parents allowed them to turn to Scientology knowing the potential consequences. I really feel for Brandon. It's too bad he didn't lash out in a country that doesn't recognize Scientology as a religion. I really enjoyed the conversations with the journalists and wanted more. It was nice to see Leah lighting a candle, it doesn't seem as though Scientology will succeed in breaking her spirit. I wonder if Miscavige regrets the way he dealt with her. 17 Link to comment
PrincessSteel January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 Help me! This show has started me on a Co$ reading jag and I need to stop. If I read one more book by an ex-parishoner or one more LRH biography I may never return to my actual life. It is more than a little sad that the To Be Continued screen made me squeal with joy. Go, Remini & Rinder! Get 'em. Get 'em but good. 22 Link to comment
Neurochick January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 4 hours ago, shelley1005 said: Just being mentally ill doesn't make you not responsible for your actions. It's a very high bar to be found not guilty in that regard. It's too bad he wasn't offered some kind of Mental Health Court to have the felony dropped to a misdemeanor. The way he talked about maybe getting it changed to a misdemeanor let me think that maybe there is something like that going on. I doubt he can appeal the conviction. There are also very few avenues there. I don't think they were saying he wasn't responsible for what he did; the issue is that the church denies that mental illness exists, that all you have to do is lock someone in a room and don't talk to them for a week and then they'll be okay. That's just fucking stupid. So that's what Co$ did and said, "look, he's cured." But he wasn't, he acted out and now the Co$ wants to put him in jail, because their "treatment" didn't work. Well, maybe if they had him see a real doctor, he wouldn't have thrown the rock or whatever it was through the window. Co$ should be prosecuted for practicing medicine without a license. 24 Link to comment
shelley1234 January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 Scientology isn't the only religion that doesn't follow treatments for both physical and mental disorders. Some believe that pray works. Some believe an exorcism will take away mental defects. Some believe essential oils. I think it's all pretty wackadoodle, but Scientology isn't alone in that. 9 Link to comment
zxy556575 January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 (edited) Doesn't it seem like "hate crimes" should distinguish between acts committed by a person with a general bias against the targeted group and someone who has a specific beef due to a bad experience? Compare a random skinhead throwing a brick through the window of the Holocaust Museum to Brandon's anger towards an organization he felt had personally harmed him. Seems clear which is actually a hate crime, strict interpretation of the law notwithstanding. Edited January 11, 2017 by lordonia 19 Link to comment
juliet73 January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 I don't excuse Brandon's behavior, but I think the punishment was extreme considering the circumstances. Due to the "church's" neglect, they should be thankful he didn't do anything worse in his state of mind. Being locked in a room for days, weeks, etc is obviously the wrong solution. Solitary confinement has been proven time and again to cause sane people to go crazy. I can't imagine the harm it would do to someone who already has a pre existing mental illness. I wonder what LRH thought about dentists? From the looks of his teeth, he didn't believe in them either. I loved that Leah called Mike Rinder a dick! Ha! 19 Link to comment
iMonrey January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 Aside from the bonus AMA episode next week this was the season finale, right? Kind of sucks they ended it on a cliffhanger like that. The whole point of the series was trying to "do" something about all this abuse and when they finally get to talk to some lawyers about what they could reasonably and legally do, they just leave us hanging? What if there's no second season? My takeaway from the whole thing with Brandon is that if the CO$ was not officially recognized by our government as a "religion" then his crime would have been considered a misdemeanor. That's really the crux of the problem right there: if somehow they could lose their official designation as a government recognized religion, they would lose everything. This is the first time I've heard that the church charges $100K if their members reveal or acknowledge the Xenu secret to outsiders or that they're taught it would kill an outsider to hear it. Did Leah mention this in her book? Has any former member mentioned it? That sounds somewhat fishy to me. South Park really pulled back that curtain on Scientology and made it something of a laughing stock - I'm sure members and former members alike feel pretty defensive about that particular aspect of it. It makes it that much harder to understand how anyone could be in it or stick with it. 4 Link to comment
AUgirl January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 21 minutes ago, juliet73 said: Being locked in a room for days, weeks, etc is obviously the wrong solution. Solitary confinement has been proven time and again to cause sane people to go crazy. I can't imagine the harm it would do to someone who already has a pre existing mental illness. If I'm not mistaken it also involves not being spoken to by your guards er "caregivers" for the duration of the "treatment". The details are on the Tony Ortega blog about the woman who died during her "treatment" for psychosis. 5 Link to comment
Whimsy January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, iMonrey said: or that they're taught it would kill an outsider to hear it. This part has been mentioned many times. They have said that revealing higher OT levels out of order would cause harm to others. I still don't get how anyone buys into that in any way, but it has been mentioned. 3 Link to comment
geekgirl921 January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 (edited) There is a case that has been covered a couple of times on the ID channel where the family were devoted Scientologists especially the mother. It turns out their the son was a paranoid schizophrenic (only diagnosed after an involuntary psych hold) he was only ever treated with vitamins and things like that as prescribed by the church and he ended up murdering his mother. Scientology is directly responsible for her death. Unfortunately, the father and daughter of the family were only concerned that the church not look bad. Sadly, the tax exemption stuff, besides saving them a billion dollars, gives them a sheen of respectability. You don't have to be appealing your sentence to have a felony reduced to a misdemeanor; there are certain charges where after you do a certain amount of community service for example you can have felony reduced. Once it is reduced you can work on having it expunged. Edited January 13, 2017 by geekgirl921 mistakes 8 Link to comment
TaraS1 January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 I get that you can't go around throwing hammers through windows, but I feel like the COS should consider themselves very fortunate that someone hasn't done much, much worse. Everyone has a breaking point, and when you destroy people's families, and ruin them physically, mentally, emotionally, financially, etc., you should count your lucky, crazyass stars that one of them hasn't shown up somewhere with a gun. Not condoning anything like that, of course, but people have "snapped" over far less. 15 Link to comment
SiobhanJW January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 10 hours ago, spiderpig said: Watching the old footage of screaming Tommy Davis had me wondering once again - whatever happened to him, anyway? Did he run off to Parts Unknown with Shelly? To be continued... http://tonyortega.org/2016/08/15/former-scientology-mouthpiece-tommy-davis-is-settling-into-his-new-role-as-hollywood-exec/ Looks like he is doing just fine. 3 Link to comment
HunterHunted January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 (edited) On 1/11/2017 at 5:56 AM, shelley1005 said: Just being mentally ill doesn't make you not responsible for your actions. It's a very high bar to be found not guilty in that regard. It's too bad he wasn't offered some kind of Mental Health Court to have the felony dropped to a misdemeanor. The way he talked about maybe getting it changed to a misdemeanor let me think that maybe there is something like that going on. I doubt he can appeal the conviction. There are also very few avenues there. However, I just hope he continues to work on getting well. He still clearly isn't out of the forest. You're completely correct. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that at the time of the crime (throwing a hammer through a window) Brandon was so mentally ill that he couldn't appreciate the wrongfulness of his actions. Given that, you can't find him NGRI. The way he described his actions, he appeared to be quite aware that he was doing this out of animus because of the disconnection from his brother. I think the DA would have dropped the charges had Scientology not insisted on the felony. However, many states have penal code statutes that bump the crimes up to felonies just based on the value of the damage. I think Scientology wanted the bias crime charge. Brandon threw a hammer through a big window. Windows are expensive. I can see that it might have been several thousand dollars to replace it and might qualify as a felony based on that alone. Edited January 12, 2017 by HunterHunted Link to comment
tvsoothesthespirit January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 I think the show's decision not to speak derisively about the OT III stuff is well founded. The point isn't that people believe crazy stuff -- that's easy to write off. The point is, the members of Scientology are being abused and, it seems, have signed over their free will to the organization. I was kind of disappointed that Leah won't give up the legal challenge idea. Legal challenges are expensive and they can backfire. IMHO, that money might be better used to persuade people to leave the CO$, or better yet, not join up. The sunlight this show, books, and documentaries have recently shed is a huge help to this. I think most members are of the "public" type. They're hemorrhaging money into the organization. If their heads can be turned, that would be a huge start. For the more indoctrinated, inner circle members (are there many of these at this point?), maybe create safe havens where people leaving Scientology can go, hand out leaflets with helpful information about leaving the church, staff 800 numbers for members to call if they need help, create a rescue force to patrol outside various Orgs to help when people leave and are pursued, etc. Have to do it while the iron is hot, though, before public interest wains. When Scientology can no longer sign new members, when members' kids can see a way out, and when members start leaving, the organization will stop bringing in money. All of the above activities will also drain money from coffers as Scientology fights a war on several fronts. Kudos to this show for making me think about this stuff! 3 Link to comment
3girlsforus January 11, 2017 Share January 11, 2017 I don't think Brandon was charged with a hate crime. Scientology claims it was a hate crime but just because he was charged with a felony doesn't mean it was a hate crime. The fact that Brandon alluded to the conviction being reduced or expunged makes it very unlikely it was a hate crime conviction. It's likely he has required behavior, treatment, and probably community service to complete tied to future change in his record. Scientology will always claim he committed a hate crime but I don't think that's what he was charged with. 1 Link to comment
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