Leah's 20/20 Episode: Scientology, A War Without Guns

[zxy556575]

Ex-members of the Church of Scientology who crusade against it; actress Leah Remini discusses her fight against the church and her goal of making it lose its tax exempt status.

[Brattinella]

Wow after seeing Monique Yingling speak a few times (only 19 minutes in) I see she does NOTHING but lie!  Easy to see!  Hasn't she ever watched her own face on camera?

[zxy556575]

Jeez, I forgot how much I dislike 20/20 and their urgent, breathless narrative style. They sure bent over backwards not to appear to be favoring the people who left and repeating that Leah and Rinder as producer and consultant for the show were paid. Like any other TV producers!

Even if the producers paid an appearance fee to some of the people who told their stories, so what.

That Yingling is the best/only person Miscavige can get to respond to accusations these days is pretty telling. If he's got nothing to hide and all the people who left Scientology are liars and thieves, then show your own damned face to the world and say so.

Edited January 7, 2017 by lordonia

[Brattinella]

I read somewhere that some of these interviewed active Scientologists were removed from the Hole, cleaned up and made to participate in this program.  (Sorry, I don't remember where!)

[HunterHunted]

9 minutes ago, lordonia said:

Jeez, I forgot how much I dislike 20/20 and their urgent, breathless narrative style. They sure bent over backwards not to appear to be favoring the people who left and repeating that Leah and Rinder as producer and consultant for the show were paid. Like any other documentary filmmakers!

Even if the producers paid an appearance fee to some of the people who told their stories, so what.

That Yingling is the best/only person Miscavige can get to respond to accusations these days is pretty telling. If he's got nothing to hide and all the people who left Scientology are liars and thieves, then show your own damned face to the world and say so.

Seriously!!! She was terrible. Honestly, they shouldn't have even responded because they look and sound weirder and worse than they realize. I imagine we'll see a couple of change.org petitions pop up asking the government to reconsider tax exemption.

[maraleia]

Monique is a lying liar that lies and you can tell this because of how her eyes kept moving in the back of her head and the constant blinking.

Compare that to Leah and the other ex-Scientologists featured on this program and the A&E show.

[Brattinella]

6 minutes ago, maraleia said:

Monique is a lying liar that lies and you can tell this because of how her eyes kept moving in the back of her head and the constant blinking.

Compare that to Leah and the other ex-Scientologists featured on this program and the A&E show.

How in the world is she an attorney?  Don't you have to make eye contact with the jury, etc?

[juliet73]

Monique the "lawyer" failed horribly!!!  She better kiss whatever life she had goodbye because DM is ordering her to the hole!!!

I really wish 20/20 would have talked about the forced abortions, the children (and adults) forced to do hard labor for 14 hours a day, 7 days a week, and all the money parishioners "donate" to the "church".

I'm disappointed the show spent so much time on Marty Rathbun since he basically washed his hands of all it.  

[Maizie131]

The "lawyer?"!!!   That's the best they can do?

Okay... check this out:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/200912/the-body-language-the-eyes

As several above have mentioned -- her constant blinking.  That drove me nuts!

Did I actually hear "Second Season" for Leah's expose', or was it only my wishful thinking? 

[Stuffy]

5 minutes ago, Maizie131 said:

Did I actually hear "Second Season" for Leah's expose', or was it only my wishful thinking? 

I recovered my deleted episode, and they said Leah's in talks for season two. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by Stuffy

[juliet73]

When asked about her making money off of this, I wanted Leah to say, "Yeah, I get paid. So does the church. The difference is I don't force people to mortgage their homes,  cash in their 401k's,  and max out their cards!" 

[Maizie131]

13 minutes ago, Stuffy said:

I recovered my deleted episode, and they said Leah's in talks for season two. 

Thanks, Stuffy, but with any luck, maybe a second season won't be necessary 'cuz the damage has been done (thanks to Leah!) and this abomination of a "church" is left in ruins -- where it belongs.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Maizie131

[green]

Just now, juliet73 said:

Monique the "lawyer" failed horribly!!!  She better kiss whatever life she had goodbye because DM is ordering her to the hole!!!

 

He can't.  She isn't a Scientologist.  Just the group's lawyer and apparently she played a large part in getting them tax exemption from the IRS way back in the day.    She was just a practicing lawyer living in Clearwater.  Remember in an early episode when Mike Rinder mentioned he was the one that actually went out and hired her back in the day.  That got a good chuckle out of Leah as I recall.

But after her poor performance tonight she better look for a new profession herself.  What weird answers she kept giving while blinking at 90 mph.

And the taped testimonials they kept giving.  Some of those people were speaking in dead, monotone voices looking totally uncomfortable.  Others were way over the top trying to look like the most ultra cheerful and happy people on the planet.  There didn't seem to be a natural human feel about any of them.  Sad.

Also says something that the group can't educate anyone enough to get into college let alone law school so they could produce their own in house lawyer. Of course if they educated their own they would probably break free and turn around and sue the heck out of the group.

A little OT:  I have a hard time with the lawyer's name.  I'm sure it is a legit name but I always misread it as YinYang.  Then I apologize to all Taoists for making such a connection.

Finally, Leah was really on and at the top of her game in those interviews.  The cross-cut editing contrast between her and The Lady of a Million Blinks was something else.  So now her plan is to go after their IRS status.  Excellent, excellent.

Edited January 7, 2017 by green

[3girlsforus]

Is this the same Monique Yingling who used to work for a D.C. Law firm and went to Vassar? Now she lives in Clearwater as the COS mouthpiece and apparently not a very good one. I haven't seen it yet but can't wait. 

http://www.nytimes.com/1983/09/25/style/monique-edwige-yingling-weds-gerald-a-feffer.html

[Ina123]

They spent a lot of time discussing how inappropriate those questions were for a 14 year old. Hell, those questions were inappropriate for adults!

Go, Leah!

[Court]

Dangit, the weather preempted this episode. I can look outside and see the ice, tyvm. 

[hoosiermom]

If Scientology does a nosedive and they are in danger of loosing their tax exempt status due to all this negative publicity, I bet that weasel DM vanishes into thin air to live the rest of his life off of other people's blood,sweat,tears and money. And, won't lose a moments sleep over it.

Edited January 7, 2017 by hoosiermom
Spelling error

[tabloidlover]

This wasn't good - I am now twitching due to watching the lawyer's eyes during questions....  I'm sure there is a lawsuit in there for me somewhere. 

My husband and I decided to watch Going Clear while we waited for this to start...... Waaay too much crazy for a 3 hour time frame.

[pinguina]

Just some things that I noticed

"Disagreeable people make a better story than happy people" said with a big toothy smile

My life is so much better with the things Scientology has given me - or words to that effect said with a somber affect.

All the blinking that the lawyer did as she gave several non-answers. IF it happened it was just one or two... Saying that the people who left cult are acting!!

Leah was so steady as she spoke.  I really admire her for coming out the other side strong and confident.  I hope she does not let up.  And by the way, so what if she is being paid, she should be paid - she is working and people who work get paid (unless you are Sea Org!)

Sergio's story was interesting because he is confirming others' stories.  He showed his own strength too.  Deciding to let go of the hope of ever getting back his family must have been a difficult thing.  Hearing your father and sister call you a liar and saying basically that you are untrustworthy - wow! 

The cult members who spoke sounded like recordings, mechanical and as if memorized their "lines" (now, who was acting? Maybe the lawyer meant the cult members!)

Okay, I think I'm done.  :)

[Matryoshka]

Monique Yingling is seriously the worst liar I have ever seen. I'm just astonished that CO$ feels she's their best choice to represent them.

[hoosiermom]

Where is everyone watching "going clear"?

[spiderpig]

Ms. Yingling looked like she was having an extended seizure whenever she was on camera - the speed of light blinking, plus her eyes seemed like they rolled back in her head. This was accompanied by the canned answers she burbled out without hesitation in response to any question.  It was very disturbing.

What's the deal with Rathbun?  Did they finally get to him over his continuing to practice core "values" of $cientology, without the blessing of The Cult, and he found himself in legal doodoo?   Very strange.

[CatMomma]

1 hour ago, spiderpig said:

What's the deal with Rathbun?  Did they finally get to him over his continuing to practice core "values" of $cientology, without the blessing of The Cult, and he found himself in legal doodoo?   Very strange.

Money. Very disappointing, considering he was one of the first outspoken ex-members of the "Church".

[Tiger]

7 hours ago, juliet73 said:

When asked about her making money off of this, I wanted Leah to say, "Yeah, I get paid. So does the church. The difference is I don't force people to mortgage their homes,  cash in their 401k's,  and max out their cards!" 

She didnt use those exact words, but she said essentially this when she said, and Im paraphrasing here, 'I dont work for free but I'm not telling people give me your money and children and Ill give you all the answers'.  

And I dont see what Leah and Mike being paid has anything to with their credibility.  They should be compensated for their time.  And it's not like they're getting Big Bang Theory money; it's a show on basic cable being watched by about 2 mil people per episode.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Tiger

[Isle Of Why]

I loved Leah's sarcastic comment to Dan Harris about how cheesy his question was concerning what she'd like to say to Miscavige if he was there. "Do people really buy that?"

Asking Leah about her supposed lack of career after King of Queens was pretty low, and not even true. Seems like them fancy investigative journalists at 20/20 don't even know how to use IMDB. The implications that she and Rinder are doing this solely for the money chaps my hide. "Semi-professional critics" indeed.

Questions Dan Harris neglected to ask Yingling:

• Are you getting paid by Scientology to do this interview?
• Are the Scientologists in the smear videos allowed to look at non-Scientology info to determine if any of the critics' claims are true?
• Are you trying to blink out "help me" in Morse code?

[kittle1974]

5 hours ago, hoosiermom said:

Where is everyone watching "going clear"?

It's on HBO. You can watch it on demand or on the HBOGO app. It may also be available somewhere else, but that's the only place I've seen it.  

[DrSparkles]

8 hours ago, Court said:

Dangit, the weather preempted this episode. I can look outside and see the ice, tyvm. 

Here too!!! Ended up being a non-event (here in ATL). Is it worth trying to find a repeat??

[spiderpig]

9 minutes ago, DrSparkles said:

Here too!!! Ended up being a non-event (here in ATL). Is it worth trying to find a repeat??

Try ABC News' website:

http://abc.go.com/shows/2020/episode-guide/2017-01/06-010617-Scientology-A-War-Without-Guns

[Dixie Sugarbaker]

The entertainment industry is very unionized. Could Leah and Mike even produce and participate in the show without being paid? I would think that the union rules would prohibit any person for working for free. Anyway, that argument is a big fat nothingburger in my opinion.

[AZChristian]

Someone above asked why Miscavage doesn't agree to be interviewed.  He did.  Once.  Here's the link.  He looked like such a fool that he won't ever do another interview.  He was doing so poorly that the show didn't end the interview, but kept running over its allotted time, with no commercial breaks.  At last that's what I read in one of the Scientology tell-all books I've been reading.

[Court]

23 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

Try ABC News' website:

http://abc.go.com/shows/2020/episode-guide/2017-01/06-010617-Scientology-A-War-Without-Guns

Thanks!

34 minutes ago, DrSparkles said:

Here too!!! Ended up being a non-event (here in ATL). Is it worth trying to find a repeat??

Well, hello neighbor! We got a nice layer of ice  and a tiny bit of snow but I know not to drive in it. Our street is a steep hill and we like to sit on the porch and watch cars slip and slide down it when there is ice. 

[AZChristian]

2 hours ago, kittle1974 said:

It's on HBO. You can watch it on demand or on the HBOGO app. It may also be available somewhere else, but that's the only place I've seen it.  

I just requested the DVD from our local library.  

[Lizzing]

4 hours ago, Tiger said:

And I dont see what Leah and Mike being paid has anything to with their credibility.  They should be compensated for their time.  And it's not like they're getting Big Bang Theory money; it's a show on basic cable being watched by about 2 mil people per episode.

ITA & I'd wager that Leah makes many times over her A&E salary on reruns of The King of Queens, since that show is always on somewhere.  She probably really does not have to work again since she's quit bleeding money to CO$.

I was disappointed by Rathbun's change of position.  His wife's suit against the anti squirrel attack seemed like it had the most legs because, IIRC from Going Clear, she was never a member of the "church" so she never voluntarily signed on for their doctrine/discipline, a defense CO$ could use under the 1st Amendment on ex members.  (I'm not sure if that defense would work on the level of harassment the anti squirrels did to the Rathbun's, but her not being a member ever removed that obstacle.)

[juliet73]

I'm curious why the "church" does not have a PR person?  Monique Yingling is a tax attorney. From what I have read about her, she basically inherited the Co$ business when her husband passed away. He's the one that got them tax exempt, not her. With all the "church's" money, I'm surprised a PR firm wasn't hired on day one.   

[Almost 3000]

26 minutes ago, juliet73 said:

I'm curious why the "church" does not have a PR person?  Monique Yingling is a tax attorney. From what I have read about her, she basically inherited the Co$ business when her husband passed away. He's the one that got them tax exempt, not her. With all the "church's" money, I'm surprised a PR firm wasn't hired on day one.   

I found this odd too. I googled her before any of this was shown last night and there was mention of her blinking. I didn't click on the link but her appearance seems to have caused mention before.

[Ruprecht]

33 minutes ago, juliet73 said:

I'm curious why the "church" does not have a PR person?  Monique Yingling is a tax attorney. From what I have read about her, she basically inherited the Co$ business when her husband passed away. He's the one that got them tax exempt, not her. With all the "church's" money, I'm surprised a PR firm wasn't hired on day one.

I can think of two reasons:

1. Mike Rinder is not available.
2. CO$ is indefensible.

[SunnyBeBe]

Well, I'm glad that my opinion of that poor excuse for a spokesperson is shared by so many.  lol  I actually got tickled watching this lady.  I think she knew she was sunk early in, but didn't know how to ESCAPE. (Pardon the pun.)  Apparently, she was provided the questions in advance, based on how she was familiar with some of the cases, such as the young man who they featured on the special last night.   I can't imagine how she would have held up under a serious interview or cross examination.  IMO, the attorney looked beaten down from the beginning.  This display makes their organization appear even more outrageous.  I sense they are sitting on a powder keg of frustration, panic and desperation about now.  I hope Leah has arranged for good security detail.  I don't think she underestimates them, despite her bold attitude.  She knows what they are capable of. 

What I would have liked to see is LEAH DO THE INTERVIEW WITH THAT ATTORNEY.  NOW THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN SOMETHING TO SEE! 

I'm not sure how the organization will continue, because they seem to have lost sight of just how pathetic their lies appear.  They are not credible and their protests are pathetic.  If Miscavage was a ball buster before, man, I can only imagine how irritated he is about now!  I bet he's really going off. 

To me, the guy who gave up the lawsuit, just gave up.  I can see how it would be exhausting physically, mentally and financially. Of course, I suspect that he may have had a secret settlement that no one can reveal.  I can't fault him. I mean, how much can a human take of that harassment? 

One thing that the COS doesn't have is transparency.  Apparently, it would sink them fast. Without it, they may also implode as well.  

[Sup wit dat]

Aside from the twitching eyes why would their only spokesperson be a lawyer?  Like we'd all believe a lawyer anyway.

There was one Co$ chick who was smiling and she said, "I'm living life on a higher level."  Wtf does that even mean?  Ugh...cult lingo...

1 hour ago, Lizzing said:

I was disappointed by Rathbun's change of position.  His wife's suit against the anti squirrel attack seemed like it had the most legs because, IIRC from Going Clear, she was never a member of the "church" so she never voluntarily signed on for their doctrine/discipline, a defense CO$ could use under the 1st Amendment on ex members.  (I'm not sure if that defense would work on the level of harassment the anti squirrels did to the Rathbun's, but her not being a member ever removed that obstacle.)

I don't think after all that harassment there's any way Rathbun or his wife would drop the case because they "lost motivation" to fight them.  That's just absurd!  Co$ silenced them.  

Anytime a lawsuit is brought against Co$ it's always mysteriously dropped.  Always.  Google "lawsuit against Miscavige dropped."  It's not only mind boggling how many have been dropped but it's a red flag that there are so many in the first place.  And how often is there a celebrity divorce without one or both celebrities hanging out the dirty laundry to the tabloids?  Like, never.  But look at Nicole Kidman and Katie Holmes...neither ever spoke a word against the Co$ golden boy Tom Cruise.  

This cult is pro at silencing people.  Except Leah.  Get 'em Leah.  She must be having an effect if the cult actually participated in this show.  They usually so secretive.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Sup wit dat

[Bibliophile]

Was is just me, or did it look like Mike Rinder's son had make up under his right eye (possibly covering a black eye from a Miscavige beat down)?

Also I felt like the most compelling aspects of the "war without guns" we're largely unexplored. If the focus of the expose on Scientology was its "war" over tax exempt status and the abuse that has been the fall out of that then why didn't they bring up scientologys PI's and underhanded coersive tactics like of the scores lawsuits scientologists filed against IRS workers and the IRS as an entity to blackmail them in reversing the ruling that revoked scientologists tax exempt status. Or talk about how they had tax exempt status but lost it over using money for personal benefit of persons in the church including scientology's   mentally unstable messiah. Disconnection was hardly even brought up and though they did talk about the RPF they practically mentioned it in passing and only mentioned that those in the RPF have to dress in black, call people sir, and run every where they go. What about the hours spent doing hard labor and being given only table scraps to eat and being stuffed into filthy shared lodging 40 people to a room for the minimal time you are allotted for sleep. and all of this being protected under the banner of freedom of religion all due to the IRS status as a religion. 

for those without HBO looking for Going Clear it's also available on Amazon video at a reasonable price as well as a few other documentaries on Scientology that are free for prime members. If you are interested in Louis Theroux's documentary My Scientology Movie you can stream it for free at 123movies  

Edited January 8, 2017 by Bibliophile
Wrong website referenced

[DrSparkles]

4 hours ago, Court said:

Thanks!

Well, hello neighbor! We got a nice layer of ice  and a tiny bit of snow but I know not to drive in it. Our street is a steep hill and we like to sit on the porch and watch cars slip and slide down it when there is ice. 

Hey neighbor! Mine is already melted!! Thanks to spiderpig for the link!

[HunterHunted]

7 hours ago, Tiger said:

She didnt use those exact words, but she said essentially this when she said, and Im paraphrasing here, 'I dont work for free but I'm not telling people give me your money and children and Ill give you all the answers'.  

And I dont see what Leah and Mike being paid has anything to with their credibility.  They should be compensated for their time.  And it's not like they're getting Big Bang Theory money; it's a show on basic cable being watched by about 2 mil people per episode.

Woodward and Bernstein notable investigative volunteers. Or all of those hobbyists at the Boston Globe who uncovered the Catholic Church sex abuses. I know that the comparison isn't precise. Lea and Mike are more akin to the Catholic sex abuse victims who formed support and advocacy groups, but honestly who cares. Except for Tony Ortega, news outlets have been hesitant to cover this. Lea has enough clout that she can basically act as victim, whistle-blower, and quasi journalist. 

There is a reason we've passed whistle-blower protection and compensation legislation in this country. It's because we realize that the desire to provide food, safety, and shelter for your family and yourself can squelch your desire to report even the grossest of transgressions and violations of the law. There are other laws like this. There are public policy reasons for all of these things. For the Co$ to act like Lea's motivation is money is ludicrous, but it also demonstrates how disconnected they are from the world because you could make that argument to them and they'd never understand.

[Wings]

Yingling lost her retainer, for sure!   DMs wrath will descend upon some who he deems responsible, in his mind.    I would pay a lot to have seen his melt down as he watched.  

Yingling doesn't have a clue how bad COS is.  Her lawyer hat was firmly in place.  Surely she is horrified after watching.   "It depends on the child" was an answer to the question is it reasonable to ask a 14 year old to imagine how it would feel to be raped?  

I wonder if they paid Rathbun or threatened him.   No way his 180 was a change of heart.  I think they paid him and handsomely, blackmail is risky.  They have to be losing their power at some point soon.  The exposure is accelerating and widening.  

DM is probably devising more ways to keep his flock sheltered and in fear with the media now giving him more focus now than ever before.  

Going Clear from amazon is,  $3.99  I am about to watch it again.  

The many questions we have will, hopefully, be covered in season 2.  There is so much more.  

[AUgirl]

1 hour ago, Bibliophile said:

Was is just me, or did is look lik Mike Rinder's son had make under his right eye (possibly covering a black eye from a Miscavige beat down)?

I remember reading he was treated for melanoma and was miraculously "cured" by Scientology. However, as a melanoma survivor that looked like the standard excision of the cancerous area. 

[3girlsforus]

I would be very interested to hear how the COS really viewed the interview. Clearly the woman did terribly but I wonder if they understand that. These are the same people who think those 'X is a wife beating, lying monster' letters are a reasonable response to Leah's show. COS continues to believe their statements will be believed on their face. 

[toodles]

5 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Someone above asked why Miscavage doesn't agree to be interviewed.  He did.  Once.  Here's the link.  He looked like such a fool that he won't ever do another interview.  He was doing so poorly that the show didn't end the interview, but kept running over its allotted time, with no commercial breaks.  At last that's what I read in one of the Scientology tell-all books I've been reading.

Hey, friend.  Looks like we have another topic of conversation.  I know why they don't let him talk.  Can we say, Can We Bring On The Crazy?  Holy cow.

I have this on YouTube now.  Ted Koppel is making mincemeat out of little Davey.  The more questions that Ted has the faster little Davey talks.  

Edited January 7, 2017 by toodles

[Diane Mars]

2 hours ago, Bibliophile said:

... If you are interested in Louis Theroux's documentary My Scientology Movie you can stream it for free at 123video.com  

Is it normal that I land on a XXXhardcore page ?!? #perplexityAtLeast

[CofCinci]

3 hours ago, Ruprecht said:

I can think of two reasons:

1. Mike Rinder is not available.
2. CO$ is indefensible.

Co$ lost a major asset with Mike Rinder's departure.  If Miscavige wasn't such a narcissist he would regret sending Mike to dig ditches.

[aamankwah]

What disturbs me about Monique is that she isn't even a Scientologist! How could you even defend these people?! Do you not know how many live they've ruined!? Or are they paying you that well? She was a horrible spokesperson for them. We legit need to get a petition started for the IRS to review the COS tax exemption! 

[Sup wit dat]

10 hours ago, Tiger said:

And I dont see what Leah and Mike being paid has anything to with their credibility.  They should be compensated for their time.  And it's not like they're getting Big Bang Theory money; it's a show on basic cable being watched by about 2 mil people per episode.

I'm with ya.  I don't see any problem whatsoever with Leah getting paid.  It's not like a person has to live in poverty and take a vow of chastity to do good work and help people.  Journalists get paid to expose shit all the time, and that's basically what Leah is doing.  She should set up a Go Fund Me page.  I'd donate.

[3girlsforus]

I just finished watching. I had to take a break because for some reason my family thought watching and reading Scientology stuff all the time wasn't as important as feeding them LOL.

I do have to ask, did anyone else think 20/20 was pretty soft in general? There weren't many tough questions or evidence of the lies presented. I have to wonder if I watched that without knowing anything about COS if I would really be as appalled as people should be.