S07.E13: Breaking The Wall / S07.E14: Deja Vu

[ChocolateAddict]

Ok so I just watched the episode and here are some of my personal highlights

Jenelle complaining that "I can't go to jail cause Kaiser will be wondering where I am!" - bitch please, the kid doesn't know where you are on a normal day.  It's kind of hard for him to see out of his playpen prison and if anything he would be wondering why it is so quiet. 

David saying "I wouldn't miss it for the world" - only in the twisted Jenelle/David reality would this sentence be referring to a court case.  I'm graduating from uni!  I'm getting married!  I'm defending myself against an assault charge when I threw a jar at my ex-boyfriend's new girlfriend!  Just another day in the life of Jenelle. 

Kail's friend coming over and asking Lincoln for a kiss and he gives her the side eye and shakes his head.  If you missed it, look up the episode on YouTube and it is after the Great Wasp Scare of 2016/17.  That kid has some serious sass and I love it. 

I actually think that Germy has a really sweet relationship with Addie. He was an arse to the twinses but I don't think he ever really wanted to be their dad.  He wanted to date the "reality TV star" and never seemed completely comfortable with the twinses.  Maybe that is just hindsight.  Anyway, despite his rudeness he seems to really love Addie and she seems to adore him.  I just wish he had given some of that affection to the other girls. 

With that, Leah needs to back the f*ck off.  What the hell was with her telling Addie "It is going to be a tough few months.  You are going to have to be strong" ?!?! (I'm paraphrasing cause Leah doesn't make much sense) She seems to be trying to guilt trip Germy just like she was when they were married.  Yeah it sucks for Addie that her dad has to move away but if he didn't work Leah wouldn't be getting those sweet child support checks each month.  Maybe Germy took that job so that he could earn more and take a few months off.  Maybe he was saving up for something.  Maybe it was an opportunity for a promotion.  Maybe Leah should accept that she procreated with someone who has to move around for a living. 

Not to mention that sometime later in the season this looks like it will continue with Leah saying "Daddy isn't home" to Addie while she FaceTimes him and then telling someone later that it was "hard on her". Addie is a toddler.  Leah could make it into a positive, "Daddy has to go away for a little while but we can FaceTime him every week so you can still see him!  And won't it be exciting when he comes back!  Maybe we can draw a picture and send it to him!" But nooooo it's all about the much-suffering Leah. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

21 hours ago, monagatuna said:

But I mean, you yourself admit you're a statistical outlier.... ;-)

I know that exposure to secondhand smoke isn't an automatic death sentence, and for everyone who dies from lung cancer, there's a mawmaw's aunt's brother-in-law who smoked a pack a day and lived to be 100, but we know it's bad for you and we know it's especially bad for kids. People who grew up in the 50s who didn't know the dangers and got addicted can maybe get a pass because we KNOW how addictive it is, but Leah doesn't have that excuse--she just looks like she was born in the 50s--no matter how unwell the schools are out there.

Smoking is obviously bad and I'm in no way an advocate for it, whether children are involved or not.  (Oh, and another anecdotal data point--a [normal] friend of mine's mother smoked all through her pregnancy to keep her weight down!) 

But it's the absolutes that bother me. 

Take drinking when you're pregnant.  Drinking isn't going to help the fetus at all, but a glass of wine every once in a while is not necessarily going to inflict a sentence of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, and it might do the mother some good by taking some stress off.  I watch a cooking show where one of the people makes a cocktail at the end of every show.  One of the other cooks has been pregnant twice, and each time she didn't take even a sip of whatever concoction the guy came up with.  That's her choice, of course, and I'd probably do the same thing as she did but only because of the fear of outrage over the sight of a pregnant woman taking a sip of a drink just to see what it tastes like.

Like almost everything in life, there's nuance involved, and people aren't very good with nuance.  That said, I doubt any of these chuckleheads would know a nuance if it slapped them on their chuckled head, so they're the last people I'd expect to have made an informed decision about whether to drink, or smoke, or constantly bring new people into their kids' lives.  No, they drink because they drink, and they smoke because they smoke, and that's as far as the inquiry goes.  It's kind of a miracle their kids thrive at all.

[BitterApple]

4 minutes ago, ChocolateAddict said:

  Yeah it sucks for Addie that her dad has to move away but if he didn't work Leah wouldn't be getting those sweet child support checks each month.

Lol, right? I'd love to see the look on Leah's face if Jeremy were to ever say "Hey, you were right. I'm going to quit the pipeline job and work at McDonald's so I can be around more. And oh, we'll have to go back to court to recalculate child support." She'd lose her damn mind. 

[GreatKazu]

1 hour ago, Christina87 said:

Oh I know. I bet a similar line of questioning led to backpackgate.

Exactly what I was thinking. I can see the Messer clan talking to the girls to get information. They read into what the girls are saying and then twist it to fit their narrative which is Miranda is not a good mom.

56 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Lol, right? I'd love to see the look on Leah's face if Jeremy were to ever say "Hey, you were right. I'm going to quit the pipeline job and work at McDonald's so I can be around more. And oh, we'll have to go back to court to recalculate child support." She'd lose her damn mind. 

Word.

[SimonSeymour]

7 hours ago, DoctorWhovian said:

You don't have to be a lawyer to become a judge in multiple jurisdictions, including the Supreme Court, it's just not very common (and no SCOTUS justices have not been, yet). 

Good point. I had forgotten that one doesn't need to be a lawyer to be a U.S. Supreme Court Justice. 

[ChocolateAddict]

I know that I'm basically spamming these boards with all these posts but this really made me laugh.  It's a YouTube recap of the episode and if you don't want to watch the whole thing, skip to 8 mins or so when she talks about Kail and Chelsea. 

[Uncle JUICE]

14 hours ago, ChocolateAddict said:

 

David saying "I wouldn't miss it for the world" - only in the twisted Jenelle/David reality would this sentence be referring to a court case.  I'm graduating from uni!  I'm getting married!  I'm defending myself against an assault charge when I threw a jar at my ex-boyfriend's new girlfriend!  Just another day in the life of Jenelle. 

Not to mention that sometime later in the season this looks like it will continue with Leah saying "Daddy isn't home" to Addie while she FaceTimes him and then telling someone later that it was "hard on her". Addie is a toddler.  Leah could make it into a positive, "Daddy has to go away for a little while but we can FaceTime him every week so you can still see him!  And won't it be exciting when he comes back!  Maybe we can draw a picture and send it to him!" But nooooo it's all about the much-suffering Leah. 

Great post, but these two parts I wish I could like more than once for definite. Leah's prepping that kid for a long life of men abandoning her I guess, the same line of propaganda she got from her mom, I would presume. And how "hard" is it on a 2 or 3 year old? What do they have to do differently? It's really just a way for Leah to make sure the girls see HER as the hero, as the rock. 

[ReadMeLattice]

I do feel bad for Addie, it does look like Jeremy cares more about his girlfriend and her child than his own kid, or at least did for a while. And I hate how he treats the twins. On the one hand that's Jeremy's fault and not Leah's, it's not her job to shield her kid from her dad's neglect entirely-- that's *his* job & responsibility, and he sure does come across as a dick sometimes. On the other hand, prettyyy damn sure she'll make this about herself, just like how she makes Ali's disability (which is *Ali's* challenge more than her parents') all about her. 

All problems with J&L ultimately come down to, you made a series of dumbass decisions and now both of you have to deal with it. Leah married a dude she barely knew and got pregnant with his baby within seconds while still sorta hung up on her ex...And he pursued a girl hung up on her ex with two kids! If you don't have an interest in being a stepfather or don't know the girl, don't freaking do that and you won't HAVE to divorce or cause anybody pain. They both just always seem soooo put upon that they even have to deal with the other one's shit at all, like instead of divorced people with a shared child and two kids they both helped to raise they're each other's irritating ex boy/girlfriend who just won't stop texting/calling for some reason. Use a condom y'all. Simple solution. 

Edited January 6, 2017 by Lm2162

[GreatKazu]

I am still on the fence about Jeremy and the twins.  When Ali got out of the car and approached Leah and Jeremy, he touched her on the head and said something to her. Gracie was still in the car because she was not in view. Suddenly, the scene was spliced and Ali wasn't visible, but Gracie was in the background near a fence. Hard to know what transpired between him and the twins since who knows how much time was spliced.

Overall, Jeremy looks checked out. He seems irritated with the fact he had to film due to the whole season 7B contract loophole. I also think he might be irritated with Leah due to her guilt trips and her constant nagging. I know I am and I don't deal with her.  Leah is good at painting herself as the victim and as the parent who does it all for the girls.

Jeremy is very irritated with her in the upcoming episode when she goes off on him about Addie being with him in Ohio. Leah makes me sick with how she stirs the pot and has to make something out of nothing all the time.

[Uncle JUICE]

@GreatKazu, I'm torn on the Jeremy thing, in that in my view, and I'm not alone, he knew who the hell he was marrying (inasmuch as he knew it was Leah from TM2, not that he really got to know her like a normal person would before marrying and impregnating her). As such, he has VERY little wiggle room to get all aggravated about filming, about Leah's nagging and guilt tripping, etc...let him give the money back. Breach your contract then, Jeremy, I'm pretty sure they're not going to sue you (they didn't sue Maci when she rescinded consent on filming Bentley for twenty minutes when Farrah returned), but they won't pay you, either. Then you're free to be aggravated, without aggravating me :). 

But on the other hand, Leah sucks in general too. I know, not exactly the most nuanced argument, but at the end of the day...

[Tatum]

5 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

@GreatKazu, I'm torn on the Jeremy thing, in that in my view, and I'm not alone, he knew who the hell he was marrying (inasmuch as he knew it was Leah from TM2, not that he really got to know her like a normal person would before marrying and impregnating her). As such, he has VERY little wiggle room to get all aggravated about filming, about Leah's nagging and guilt tripping, etc...let him give the money back. Breach your contract then, Jeremy, I'm pretty sure they're not going to sue you (they didn't sue Maci when she rescinded consent on filming Bentley for twenty minutes when Farrah returned), but they won't pay you, either. Then you're free to be aggravated, without aggravating me :). 

But on the other hand, Leah sucks in general too. I know, not exactly the most nuanced argument, but at the end of the day...

I agree. No sympathy for Jeremy for being stuck with filming and with Leah's shenanigans. Not only did he know about both before signing on the dotted line, but I am sure part of Leah's draw was her MTV fame. Now that he's feeling the heat from Leah's little twitter army, and found a girl that makes Leah's holler trained blowjobs seem amateurish, thus rendering her expendable, he wants out, regardless of the fallout that he's been party to causing. No dice, Germy.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Tatum

[ChocolateAddict]

3 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Great post, but these two parts I wish I could like more than once for definite. Leah's prepping that kid for a long life of men abandoning her I guess, the same line of propaganda she got from her mom, I would presume. And how "hard" is it on a 2 or 3 year old? What do they have to do differently? It's really just a way for Leah to make sure the girls see HER as the hero, as the rock. 

100% 

She might as well have told Addie that at least one of her parents loves her enough to not abandon her and that real love means not leaving someone behind *cue the sad violins* Never mind that the reason Addie has clothes and food is because her dad actually goes to work (we all know where Leah's MTV checks ended up last year). 

[Uncle JUICE]

And besides, are we even sure what sort of visitation Jeremy has with Addie? Let's say he's a weekend dad, which seems...generous if you ask me. A month is eight days, and a two year old has no idea what day of the week anything is happening on...that kid's barely going to notice, especially since Germy's MOM isn't the one who's going to SD. I'm sure Addie will be over there just as much as usual. Yeah, maybe there's a passing "Where is that guy who sometimes is here, gram?" mention, but that's immediately followed up by "I would like a fistful of frosting please, why aren't you giving me one?!?!?"

[GreatKazu]

15 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

@GreatKazu, I'm torn on the Jeremy thing, in that in my view, and I'm not alone, he knew who the hell he was marrying (inasmuch as he knew it was Leah from TM2, not that he really got to know her like a normal person would before marrying and impregnating her). As such, he has VERY little wiggle room to get all aggravated about filming, about Leah's nagging and guilt tripping, etc...let him give the money back. Breach your contract then, Jeremy, I'm pretty sure they're not going to sue you (they didn't sue Maci when she rescinded consent on filming Bentley for twenty minutes when Farrah returned), but they won't pay you, either. Then you're free to be aggravated, without aggravating me :). 

But on the other hand, Leah sucks in general too. I know, not exactly the most nuanced argument, but at the end of the day...

Oh no, I fully agree on those points. I was merely on the fence about his non-interactions with the twins in the pick-up scene. See, that is an example where editing can make a scene look a certain way, but who knows what interactions may have transpired since it was spliced.

I was just giving my observations on how Jeremy looked checked out during that particular scene and why he may be looking that way.

I don't appreciate how Leah does her guilt trips with the fathers of her kids when they are doing their job of being a father. I know Jeremy played a part in that shit when he was with her. This is similar to Javi and Kail. Javi pisses me off to no end and he gets nothing but hate from me for what he did to Jo by playing along with Kail's warped games. Still, there are kids involved and when it comes to the fathers actually doing their job, I hate when the mothers act as if those fathers are non-factors while patting themselves on the back as the best parent ever.

[DangerousMinds]

2 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

I do feel bad for Addie, it does look like Jeremy cares more about his girlfriend and her child than his own kid, or at least did for a while. And I hate how he treats the twins. On the one hand that's Jeremy's fault and not Leah's, it's not her job to shield her kid from her dad's neglect entirely-- that's *his* job & responsibility, and he sure does come across as a dick sometimes. On the other hand, prettyyy damn sure she'll make this about herself, just like how she makes Ali's disability (which is *Ali's* challenge more than her parents') all about her. 

All problems with J&L ultimately come down to, you made a series of dumbass decisions and now both of you have to deal with it. Leah married a dude she barely knew and got pregnant with his baby within seconds while still sorta hung up on her ex...And he pursued a girl hung up on her ex with two kids! If you don't have an interest in being a stepfather or don't know the girl, don't freaking do that and you won't HAVE to divorce or cause anybody pain. They both just always seem soooo put upon that they even have to deal with the other one's shit at all, like instead of divorced people with a shared child and two kids they both helped to raise they're each other's irritating ex boy/girlfriend who just won't stop texting/calling for some reason. Use a condom y'all. Simple solution. 

And it angers me more because Jeremy was the one who pushed for the quick marriage and pregnancy. Leah seemed to want to wait to get pregnant again but Jeremy wanted it ASAP.

[lezlers]

On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 8:36 AM, SPLAIN said:

A real judge wouldn't tolerate it. A magistrate who is not even an attorney? That's another story. A few posters here have given us information about Horny County Superior Court. Yes, I typed it out as HORNY. 

It seems they do things very differently in the misdemeanor courts in North and South Carolina. One doesn't need to be an attorney to be a magistrate, and they only need to have heard ten trials in order to be certified (?) as a magistrate.

What I want to know is, what is the requirement to be a coroner in Horny County? Be a police officer for two years?

@Uncle JUICE that is perfect!

Having just spent a morning in misdemeanor court here in California, I am FLABBERGASTED at the circus act known as South Carolina court.  Just....wow.

[SPLAIN]

38 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

And it angers me more because Jeremy was the one who pushed for the quick marriage and pregnancy. Leah seemed to want to wait to get pregnant again but Jeremy wanted it ASAP.

The only reason Leah wanted to wait was because she wanted Cory back. She was hoping he would snap his fingers and let her know he changed her mind and they can be a couple again. Leah was holding off on anything with Jeremy because her heart was with Cory, as she proclaimed on the reunion show.

With that said, Jeremy should have high-tailed his ass outta there once Leah made it clear her heart was not with him.

35 minutes ago, lezlers said:

Having just spent a morning in misdemeanor court here in California, I am FLABBERGASTED at the circus act known as South Carolina court.  Just....wow.

As a Californian, I am happy to know we have what we have here compared to Horny County. 

[ReadMeLattice]

I don't get the dudes all being irritated with filming stuff. Adam, Jeremy, Ryan, they all bitch and moan about filming-- don't impregnate random girls, particularly not ones on TM (well that one only applies to Jeremy), and/or don't sign up for the show...Problem solved. 

[ghoulina]

6 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Great post, but these two parts I wish I could like more than once for definite. Leah's prepping that kid for a long life of men abandoning her I guess, the same line of propaganda she got from her mom, I would presume. And how "hard" is it on a 2 or 3 year old? What do they have to do differently? It's really just a way for Leah to make sure the girls see HER as the hero, as the rock. 

And it's not like this job is new for Germy. He's been doing it since before Addie was born. I don't know if he's been away for 4 months straight before, but there were definitely plenty of time where he'd be gone for a few weeks at a time and then just come back for a weekend. It's not the end of the world. Leah just loves any situation where she gets to be the long-suffering mother. But you know she will drop Addie off with any grandparent, aunt, cousin, mechanic she can find. 

 

3 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

I am still on the fence about Jeremy and the twins.  When Ali got out of the car and approached Leah and Jeremy, he touched her on the head and said something to her. Gracie was still in the car because she was not in view. Suddenly, the scene was spliced and Ali wasn't visible, but Gracie was in the background near a fence. Hard to know what transpired between him and the twins since who knows how much time was spliced.

I agree. Plus, wasn't there a scene last season of them all being at some function and he was really interacting with Gracie? I remember a lot of scenes of him doing stuff with/for the girlses when he was actually married to Leah. I think he might be a bit standoffish now because he knows full well Leah loves to play games and would pull the whole, "You're not their dad thing!" any time she got mad at him. It's a tough situation. 

 

52 minutes ago, SPLAIN said:

The only reason Leah wanted to wait was because she wanted Cory back. She was hoping he would snap his fingers and let her know he changed her mind and they can be a couple again. Leah was holding off on anything with Jeremy because her heart was with Cory, as she proclaimed on the reunion show.

Yup. And as soon as it was clear that things weren't happening with Cory, she wasted no time letting Germy get her pregnant. 

[leighroda]

I'll give the first set of guys a pass (meaning the original dads that appeared on 16 and pregnant) nobody knew what this would turn into, even the second season dads, I'm not sure the first season aired completely by the time they filmed, even if it did who knows if they actually saw it, I think in most cases it was the girls who actually applied so who knows where the dads were in that decision... but Jeremey sought out Leah on twitter, I'm not sure about Javi... but even if he didn't seek her out, he had more of an idea going into it, so they don't get much sympathy from me. 

I know this is a bit extreme, but Leah's baiting behavior is pretty close to emotionally abusive to me.  How she seems to be trying to make Addie a necessarily sad, it's just like when she was leaving for rehab "treatment" she made things much more difficult than they needed to be... that's just wrong to play with a child's emotions like that to serve your own agenda, like so she could say how much they missed her.

[lezlers]

On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 10:17 AM, rayndon said:

It's common in smaller jurisdictions and for less serious cases for police officers to ask the questions / act as the prosecutor for their own cases.  I've seen it a number of times in N and S Carolina, OH.  

Someone upthread wondered about Nathan and Jess not being prepped for their testimony, etc and that doesn't really happen when there's no formal prosecutor or you don't have  your own attorney if you're the defendant.  The police officer in this case may have run through his line of questions with them but even if that happened it was nothing as extensive or as formal as what you see on tv.   

Wait, what?  If the charge carries a possible jail sentence, you have a constitutional right to an attorney.  The Gideon case is what created public defenders.  I don't know what those yahoos in north and south Carolina are doing but if they're not providing attorneys to defendants in criminal cases, they're violating the constitution.

[GreatKazu]

4 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

I don't get the dudes all being irritated with filming stuff. Adam, Jeremy, Ryan, they all bitch and moan about filming-- don't impregnate random girls, particularly not ones on TM (well that one only applies to Jeremy), and/or don't sign up for the show...Problem solved. 

To be fair, most, if not all, the cast members have bitched about filming at one time or another. The girls from both TMOG and TM2 are the worst when it comes to bitching about the editing. Amber continuously threatens to quit. Amber has walked off how many times now from the reunion couch? Kail has walked off herself from a reunion taping and bitched about editing. We just heard Leah throw a temper tantrum on the behind the scenes special recently. Adam doesn't count because he is one big whiner and douchebag whose complaints fall on my deaf ears. He has no real relationship with his child and never worked hard at being a decent dad while respecting his ex, Chelsea.

I am wondering if Jeremy has any pull on whether Addie can film for another season? I bet he wanted to remove himself and Addie from the show altogether, but Leah threw a shit fit about the extra money and how it unfair it would be to not allow her to be filmed with her sisters, and how unfair it would be to Addie to not have that trust fund money. Not that I think Leah cares about trust fund money. It would just be something for her to throw in Jeremy's face.

Quote

Yup. And as soon as it was clear that things weren't happening with Cory, she wasted no time letting Germy get her pregnant. 

Exactly.

Edited January 7, 2017 by GreatKazu

[lezlers]

On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 0:02 PM, GreatKazu said:

The bolded part is mine. THIS!

That is what I think is happening. They both believe they are helping her enjoy the time she has to enjoy walking and running around before she ends up in a wheelchair permanently.

Exactly. I cannot fathom how Leah has it hard when she doesn't even have the girls all the time. As we saw, Adderrall wasn't even there. Leah doesn't do housework or laundry. She feeds her kids junk food and canned frosting so, there is no cooking going on. What the fuck is she doing with all her time and how is it she is so absent-minded? She is not a SAHM full-time. Jeremy has his kid or his mom takes Addie for at least once or twice a week. Cory has the girlses for at least four days out of the week.  If I had had that kind of ALONE TIME when my kids were young, I would have been finding so much to do in my life. Shit, I did do a lot of things in my life while working full-time, being a wife and a mother. It is possible. Leah and the rest of these failed mothers make it seem impossible and so stressful. Pleeeeeze.

RIGHT?  I've got a four year old and a two year old and work full-time.  I still manage to find plenty of "me" time.  I squeeze it in.  I get massages, facials and go for runs.  These bitches "work" (get filmed) one week out of the month and don't have their kids half the time and THEY'RE stressed out?  Please.  They don't know what stress IS.

[lezlers]

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 0:37 PM, SimonSeymour said:

Yes, only the defendant is allowed to testify this way and it pretty much signals to the judge and prosecutor (but not the jury) that the defense attorney knows that the defendant is perjuring himself.  It is allowed because whether to testify is one of five decisions that only a defendant can make (meaning, defense attorneys have complete control over everything else - like what witnesses to call (or not call), theory of defense, etc.), while at the same time, the defense attorney can't suborn perjury.  So, the defendant gets his constitutional right to testify and his attorney is not committing a crime. 

It is completely INSANE to me that not only are non-attorney police officers allowed to act as prosecutors, but the MAGISTRATE, the person hearing a criminal trial, DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A LICENSED ATTORNEY!!  (Sorry for the all caps, I am just dumbfounded that this is allowed in any state at all). 

I'm a criminal defense attorney and had to pause the show to yell at my husband to come watch.  Then I had to rewind and watch about three more times.  Then I had to text all of my co-workers I'm friends with (thereby admitting I watch this trash) to tell them to turn it on IMMEDIATELY.  I was so incredibly flabbergasted.  And I just learned that a magistrate doesn't have to be a lawyer in this thread.  What in the FUCK?????????  How can you make evidentiary decisions that will affect someone's LIBERTY without even understanding the LAW??  I'm.....I can't.   First Trump, then this shit.  My world, it is a crumbling!

[ReadMeLattice]

@lezlers, I am still dumbfounded by that "trial." Everything else in the episode blurs for me, it was truly bewildering, like the real hearing was about to start any moment. Although it answers my questions about how the fuck Jenelle, Nathan and co have managed to get away with their crimes so many times...

[lezlers]

34 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

@lezlers, I am still dumbfounded by that "trial." Everything else in the episode blurs for me, it was truly bewildering, like the real hearing was about to start any moment. Although it answers my questions about how the fuck Jenelle, Nathan and co have managed to get away with their crimes so many times...

Even in misdemeanor courts here, we are very formal.  In a jury trial (or any evidentiary hearing) rules of evidence are followed.  There are court reporters.  Witnesses do not watch testimony.  Victims do NOT sit at counsel table.  An investigating officer can sit with the DA at counsel table, but that's it.  Witnesses answer direct questions, they do not testify in a narrative (except for under very rare circumstances described above.)  If I were ever to lean back with my leg out smacking my gum next to the jury box while questioning a witness, there'd be hell to pay.  It doesn't matter if the defendant could potentially be serving the rest of their life in prison or a maximum of 90 days jail, it looks the same. 

The Carolinas should be ashamed of the farce they call a justice system.  God, I'm getting angry now.

Edited January 6, 2017 by lezlers

[GreatKazu]

1 hour ago, lezlers said:

RIGHT?  I've got a four year old and a two year old and work full-time.  I still manage to find plenty of "me" time.  I squeeze it in.  I get massages, facials and go for runs.  These bitches "work" (get filmed) one week out of the month and don't have their kids half the time and THEY'RE stressed out?  Please.  They don't know what stress IS.

The girls love to throw around the stress word for every.little.thing! They have no clue.

56 minutes ago, lezlers said:

I'm a criminal defense attorney and had to pause the show to yell at my husband to come watch.  Then I had to rewind and watch about three more times.  Then I had to text all of my co-workers I'm friends with (thereby admitting I watch this trash) to tell them to turn it on IMMEDIATELY.  I was so incredibly flabbergasted.  And I just learned that a magistrate doesn't have to be a lawyer in this thread.  What in the FUCK?????????  How can you make evidentiary decisions that will affect someone's LIBERTY without even understanding the LAW??  I'm.....I can't.   First Trump, then this shit.  My world, it is a crumbling!

Thank you! You said what I have been thinking since I watched that farce. I don't get it. How is it there is no outrage? How many people have been fucked over by their system? How can a peace officer remain neutral on these matters? You have a defendant AND a witness who have criminal records. What if that peace officer had arrested Jenelle or Nathan in the past? Am I making sense here? I have incredible neck pain right now and a headache, so sorry if my rambling is not clear. Can you decipher what it is I am trying to convey here?

[Christina87]

Haha, good old Horny county. ;-) I live in NC, and most people vacation at Myrtle beach. While the county is actually pronounced "Orry," absolutely everyone makes fun of it, because it has a reputation of being a...whorrey and horny place, lol! Myrtle has a huge redneck/trashy reputation in certain areas, but also has very nice areas and is well-known for golf courses. It is totally possible to vacation there and never see the likes of Jenelle and Nathan, but go to the strip, and that type of person abounds!

i wonder if the court system is so informal because a huuuuuge percentage of arrests have to be drinking related, by tourists. Maybe they want to be able to sift through this huge volume of people who haven't committed serious crimes quickly, so they let police officers do it? That's all I can come up with. That being said, you'd still think residents who have criminal records in an assault case would be a little different. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by Christina87

[SimonSeymour]

9 hours ago, lezlers said:

I'm a criminal defense attorney and had to pause the show to yell at my husband to come watch.  Then I had to rewind and watch about three more times.  Then I had to text all of my co-workers I'm friends with (thereby admitting I watch this trash) to tell them to turn it on IMMEDIATELY.  I was so incredibly flabbergasted.  And I just learned that a magistrate doesn't have to be a lawyer in this thread.  What in the FUCK?????????  How can you make evidentiary decisions that will affect someone's LIBERTY without even understanding the LAW??  I'm.....I can't.   First Trump, then this shit.  My world, it is a crumbling!

Ha!!  I am also a criminal defense attorney (I am an appellate public defender), and I just cannot understand how the state of South Carolina gets away with this!!  

I could not enjoy more that you share my outrage!

[SimonSeymour]

9 hours ago, lezlers said:

Even in misdemeanor courts here, we are very formal.  In a jury trial (or any evidentiary hearing) rules of evidence are followed.  There are court reporters.  Witnesses do not watch testimony.  Victims do NOT sit at counsel table.  An investigating officer can sit with the DA at counsel table, but that's it.  Witnesses answer direct questions, they do not testify in a narrative (except for under very rare circumstances described above.)  If I were ever to lean back with my leg out smacking my gum next to the jury box while questioning a witness, there'd be hell to pay.  It doesn't matter if the defendant could potentially be serving the rest of their life in prison or a maximum of 90 days jail, it looks the same. 

The Carolinas should be ashamed of the farce they call a justice system.  God, I'm getting angry now.

I pretty much wrote exactly the same on page five of this thread.  Obviously, again, I completely agree.  

I don't usually have misdemeanor cases but I get one on appeal every few years.  The trials are a little more sloppy than felony trials, but they come nowhere even close to this bullshit.  Even "trials" for scripted drama TV shows (which I can't stand to watch because of all of the errors) do a better job of approximating due process than this nonsense. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by SimonSeymour

[mamadrama]

15 hours ago, leighroda said:

 

I know this is a bit extreme, but Leah's baiting behavior is pretty close to emotionally abusive to me.  How she seems to be trying to make Addie a necessarily sad, it's just like when she was leaving for rehab "treatment" she made things much more difficult than they needed to be... that's just wrong to play with a child's emotions like that to serve your own agenda, like so she could say how much they missed her.

I couldn't decide if she was baiting Addie or if she, LEAH, was depressed to see Germy go and was sharing her feelings by talking through Addie. I am no Leah fan, but I think she's kind of a screwed-up, tragic figure. No matter what she says about Germy or Corey, I think a part of her still idealizes them and their relationships with her. Whether she blames them, or herself, I do think she looks at both men and sees "what could have been" (which is probably nothing close to reality, even IF she she'd been clean and mentally stable). 

[jacksgirl]

Snow day watched Friday.  Leah, you get more flies with honey than vinegar. Encourage Germy to face time or Skype with Adderall insread of bitching at him. You make suggestions. Maybe send pictures or videos of her daily and send to him. Have her draw pictures to send in the mail.You are so lucky her father wants to work and has a job where he can make good money, a lot of which he sends to you. 

[ChocolateAddict]

19 hours ago, leighroda said:

I know this is a bit extreme, but Leah's baiting behavior is pretty close to emotionally abusive to me.  How she seems to be trying to make Addie a necessarily sad, it's just like when she was leaving for rehab "treatment" she made things much more difficult than they needed to be... that's just wrong to play with a child's emotions like that to serve your own agenda, like so she could say how much they missed her.

I wish I could like this more than once.  Pretty much all the moms do this but Leah seems to be the worst.  She flat out manipulates the girlses emotions to make her look like a better parent.  She deliberately winds them up, like when she went to "anxiety and depression" treatment or when she used to drop them off at Corey's.  She has this nifty little trick where she gets them all depressed in the car (Mommy is going to be so lonely when you leave/Mommy is going to miss you so much when you are at Dadddy's/it makes me sad when you go) so that whenever she hands them over, they are teary.  Then of course, Leah get her kicks because her children are so distraught when they have to leave her. 

With the twinses she has always focused on the negatives about them leaving and I firmly believe that Leah is trying to guilt the girls into feeling sorry for her. What she wants is for the girls to feel conflicted whenever they leave and I think it is close to abusive. 

Ditto what she is now doing with Addie.  She tells her that it is going to be a tough few months, WTF???  Addie probably can't even spell her own name so back off on the heart to heart teenage angst. The more upset Addie is about Jeremy leaving, the more she can hit him with later. 

That said, every single girl in the franchise has done something similar but to me Leah is the worst. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

19 hours ago, lezlers said:

Quote

Someone upthread wondered about Nathan and Jess not being prepped for their testimony, etc and that doesn't really happen when there's no formal prosecutor or you don't have  your own attorney if you're the defendant.  The police officer in this case may have run through his line of questions with them but even if that happened it was nothing as extensive or as formal as what you see on tv.   

Wait, what?  If the charge carries a possible jail sentence, you have a constitutional right to an attorney.  The Gideon case is what created public defenders.  I don't know what those yahoos in north and south Carolina are doing but if they're not providing attorneys to defendants in criminal cases, they're violating the constitution.

Jenelle was the defendant, and she had a lawyer.  Maybe even two--I don't know who that man at the defense table was.

 

18 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Thank you! You said what I have been thinking since I watched that farce. I don't get it. How is it there is no outrage? How many people have been fucked over by their system? How can a peace officer remain neutral on these matters? You have a defendant AND a witness who have criminal records. What if that peace officer had arrested Jenelle or Nathan in the past? Am I making sense here? I have incredible neck pain right now and a headache, so sorry if my rambling is not clear. Can you decipher what it is I am trying to convey here?

Are you talking about the cop who was "prosecuting" the state's case?  Prosecutors don't have a duty to be neutral.  I don't think having a cop act as prosecutor is necessarily a good thing, but his possible lack of neutrality isn't the reason. 

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

22 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Plus, wasn't there a scene last season of them all being at some function and he was really interacting with Gracie? I remember a lot of scenes of him doing stuff with/for the girlses when he was actually married to Leah. I think he might be a bit standoffish now because he knows full well Leah loves to play games and would pull the whole, "You're not their dad thing!" any time she got mad at him. It's a tough situation. 

I remember Jeremy being a relatively hands-on and good stepdad, especially in the beginning. There was a brief period of time when the Simms family and the Calverts seemed to be co-parenting together well. Jeremy would often come to Ali's appointments. Granted, that all kind of deteriorated when Leah started pill-popping & sneaking guys into their home when Jeremy was away. I definitely think he's trying to walk the line where he is cordial but can't give Leah anything to say where she can play the "you're not their dad" card. I don't particularly think Jeremy's all that great, but I definitely don't see Jeremy as likely to pull a Nathan and walk right past his former partner's kid without even looking in their direction. 

[Christina87]

3 hours ago, ChocolateAddict said:

I wish I could like this more than once.  Pretty much all the moms do this but Leah seems to be the worst.  She flat out manipulates the girlses emotions to make her look like a better parent.  She deliberately winds them up, like when she went to "anxiety and depression" treatment or when she used to drop them off at Corey's.  She has this nifty little trick where she gets them all depressed in the car (Mommy is going to be so lonely when you leave/Mommy is going to miss you so much when you are at Dadddy's/it makes me sad when you go) so that whenever she hands them over, they are teary.  Then of course, Leah get her kicks because her children are so distraught when they have to leave her. 

With the twinses she has always focused on the negatives about them leaving and I firmly believe that Leah is trying to guilt the girls into feeling sorry for her. What she wants is for the girls to feel conflicted whenever they leave and I think it is close to abusive. 

Ditto what she is now doing with Addie.  She tells her that it is going to be a tough few months, WTF???  Addie probably can't even spell her own name so back off on the heart to heart teenage angst. The more upset Addie is about Jeremy leaving, the more she can hit him with later. 

That said, every single girl in the franchise has done something similar but to me Leah is the worst. 

Couldn't agree more!!! Chelsea is the second worst, but I view her asking Aubree about Adam's crappiness as immature, like a teenager wanting the dirty gossip from another teen. It seems to really break her heart when Aubree feels let down. If anything, Chelsea has an issue with boundaries, and trouble distinguishing between what's appropriate for a parent vs. a friend. Leah seems to delight in her girls being let down by their fathers, which I agree is emotional abuse. 

[GreatKazu]

2 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

 

Are you talking about the cop who was "prosecuting" the state's case?  Prosecutors don't have a duty to be neutral.  I don't think having a cop act as prosecutor is necessarily a good thing, but his possible lack of neutrality isn't the reason. 

I am referring to the idea of the officer being both a "prosecutor" and a witness in a tort or misdemeanor criminal trial in South Carolina.

Law enforcement is filled with crooked cops. What would keep a cop like that from wanting to stick it to someone knowing they would later be the "prosecutor" and witness on that case? 

[HeySandyStrange]

3 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

I remember Jeremy being a relatively hands-on and good stepdad, especially in the beginning. There was a brief period of time when the Simms family and the Calverts seemed to be co-parenting together well. Jeremy would often come to Ali's appointments. Granted, that all kind of deteriorated when Leah started pill-popping & sneaking guys into their home when Jeremy was away. I definitely think he's trying to walk the line where he is cordial but can't give Leah anything to say where she can play the "you're not their dad" card. I don't particularly think Jeremy's all that great, but I definitely don't see Jeremy as likely to pull a Nathan and walk right past his former partner's kid without even looking in their direction. 

This^. I don't particularly care for Jeremy, but I think he was pretty much walking a fine line with the twinses. When he was married to Leah he was working out of town a lot, thus he didn't get to spend a lot of time bonding with any of the girlses. The twinses also have a very involved, caring father so maybe he didn't feel it was on him to try to play dad of the year to the girlses, like Javi (over) did. Also, imo Jeremy just doesn't seem to like kids or be paternal in the way Corey, Jo, Cole or Javi do/are. Adding all that to the overall brief and dysfunctional nature of his relationship with Leah, I'm not surprised nor do I fully blame him for not being a second dad to the twins. I've never been a step-parent but I can imagine it can be a very difficult position to be in, especially in the case of divorce like with Germs and Leah. I do think, at the very least, Jeremy is probably friendly enough to the twins even if we don't always see it.

[AmyFarrahFowler]

13 minutes ago, HeySandyStrange said:

This^. I don't particularly care for Jeremy, but I think he was pretty much walking a fine line with the twinses. When he was married to Leah he was working out of town a lot, thus he didn't get to spend a lot of time bonding with any of the girlses. The twinses also have a very involved, caring father so maybe he didn't feel it was on him to try to play dad of the year to the girlses, like Javi (over) did. Also, imo Jeremy just doesn't seem to like kids or be paternal in the way Corey, Jo, Cole or Javi do/are. Adding all that to the overall brief and dysfunctional nature of his relationship with Leah, I'm not surprised nor do I fully blame him for not being a second dad to the twins. I've never been a step-parent but I can imagine it can be a very difficult position to be in, especially in the case of divorce like with Germs and Leah. I do think, at the very least, Jeremy is probably friendly enough to the twins even if we don't always see it.

During this time Leah was pushing the girlses to tell Jeremy that they loved him. That really left a bad taste in my mouth. I mean, they barely knew him.

[Scarlett45]

On 1/7/2017 at 4:58 PM, HeySandyStrange said:

This^. I don't particularly care for Jeremy, but I think he was pretty much walking a fine line with the twinses. When he was married to Leah he was working out of town a lot, thus he didn't get to spend a lot of time bonding with any of the girlses. The twinses also have a very involved, caring father so maybe he didn't feel it was on him to try to play dad of the year to the girlses, like Javi (over) did. Also, imo Jeremy just doesn't seem to like kids or be paternal in the way Corey, Jo, Cole or Javi do/are. Adding all that to the overall brief and dysfunctional nature of his relationship with Leah, I'm not surprised nor do I fully blame him for not being a second dad to the twins. I've never been a step-parent but I can imagine it can be a very difficult position to be in, especially in the case of divorce like with Germs and Leah. I do think, at the very least, Jeremy is probably friendly enough to the twins even if we don't always see it.

Yeah. I don't get the impression that Jeremy would ever be cruel or unkind to any child (especially siblings to his own child), but it's not as if he was step-dad to the twins for 20yrs (or even a decade) and now pretends he doesn't know them. I also agree that personality wise he isn't the nurturing type of guy Corey, Jo or Javi are (or Gary/Taylor from TM 1). He probably has no qualms about being a "weekend dad" and feels he's doing his job by providing financially. Given the type of job he had when Leah married him this doesn't surprise me. 

Edited January 9, 2017 by Scarlett45

[SPLAIN]

Quote

it does look like Jeremy cares more about his girlfriend and her child than his own kid, or at least did for a while.

I assume you are referencing his social media because Jeremy was hardly shown last season and I don't recall any interactions with his girlfriend and her child.

MyPeopleAreNordic and HeySandyStrange agree to both of your posts.

Quote

When he was married to Leah he was working out of town a lot, thus he didn't get to spend a lot of time bonding with any of the girlses. The twinses also have a very involved, caring father so maybe he didn't feel it was on him to try to play dad of the year to the girlses, like Javi (over) did. Also, imo Jeremy just doesn't seem to like kids or be paternal in the way Corey, Jo, Cole or Javi do/are. Adding all that to the overall brief and dysfunctional nature of his relationship with Leah, I'm not surprised nor do I fully blame him for not being a second dad to the twins. I've never been a step-parent but I can imagine it can be a very difficult position to be in, especially in the case of divorce like with Germs and Leah. I do think, at the very least, Jeremy is probably friendly enough to the twins even if we don't always see it.

Throw in the fact Leah didn't even have her girls all the time due to visitation. They spent almost half their time with Cory and his family. As HeySandyStrange pointed out, Jeremy was, and still is, out of town most of the time due to his job. I remember a few scenes where he was home and only Addie was there. When the girls were around, he seemed to be a good step-dad.

I can nitpick Jeremy to death about his faults, and there are plenty. But, this is a guy who worked to pay for all the bills and tried to give all the girls a stable life by providing a bigger home and doing what was necessary on his end.

[btho1776]

On 1/2/2017 at 10:17 PM, Straycat80 said:

If I was  MTV I would have told Adumb to go to hell. It was sickening how they were kissing his ass while he was being a dick to them. He brings nothing to the show as far as I'm concerned. He's acting like he's a great dad and he's not. I guess the deal with him was that they showed him in a good light, playing in the backyard with Aubree, I'm not buying it. 

I don't buy it either, STRAYCAT80. Aubree asked him at the weightlighting competition, "Daddy, how come you didn't come to the dance?" He said "Cuz I was doing this." (Weightlifting) hmmmm....I think he is so boring that is why he gets commercial break air times and ending credits. He asked the producer "How come you didn't film me going to Aubree's school everyday last week? We had lunch and watched a movie."  Cuz your watching a movie! ! Plus, MTV would have to blur the kids faces all over the place - THEY ARE MINORS!!

Edited January 9, 2017 by btho1776

[Christina87]

1 hour ago, SPLAIN said:

I assume you are referencing his social media because Jeremy was hardly shown last season and I don't recall any interactions with his girlfriend and her child.

MyPeopleAreNordic and HeySandyStrange agree to both of your posts.

Throw in the fact Leah didn't even have her girls all the time due to visitation. They spent almost half their time with Cory and his family. As HeySandyStrange pointed out, Jeremy was, and still is, out of town most of the time due to his job. I remember a few scenes where he was home and only Addie was there. When the girls were around, he seemed to be a good step-dad.

I can nitpick Jeremy to death about his faults, and there are plenty. But, this is a guy who worked to pay for all the bills and tried to give all the girls a stable life by providing a bigger home and doing what was necessary on his end.

True, and didn't Corey have the girls on the weekends back then?

[Christina]

Once again I find myself days behind in reading posts. I worked as a paralegal in WV and OH. Because my attorney had been a prosecutor in WV, he was assigned some public defender jobs for misdemeanors when there were conflicts with the attorneys who usually handle those cases, so I'm pretty familiar with the Magistrate Courts. Felony cases had the option to hire an attorney who worked primarily in criminal law, at a rate higher than what the PD was paid, and it was paid from the fund, so he was mostly appointed to misdemeanor and juvenile cases. In fifteen years, I only remember one felony case, and that, of course, was not handled in Magistrate Court, but the Circuit Court with real prosecutor and real judge.

The defendants always have a licensed attorney. If they don't qualify for the PD, and they show up without an attorney because they can't afford one, the common practice was to grab whatever PD was available and make them appear, with the Circuit Court judge (real judge) ordering the PD fund to pay that attorney for their services. My attorney hated going down there because it happened to him several times, because to qualify for a PD you have to basically have no job, the income cut off was so low. 

Most of the magistrates were retired law enforcement. They were actually the best to go in front of in criminal cases, because they would give time served for the drunken disorderly infractions, and alternative sentencing for shoplifting, etc. They also seemed good at figuring out the liars and the lies when everyone in the room is lying. It is where I first became aware of how screwed up our mental health system was, and the former LE agreed and would often transfer straight to mental health services. Those hearings had an attorney for the people and attorneys for the defense, but not anyone from the actual prosecutor's office, because it was funded differently. The judge in that case was also an attorney, not a sitting judge. The legal standards to commit people are completely different than the rules of evidence in criminal court.

I suspect Janelle was charged under a city or municipal ordinance and that is why she was being tried in Magistrate Court with the police officer presenting the case. The rules of evidence for an administrative hearing are a bit different, and animal control would prosecute the animal cases, the police would prosecute the ordinances, etc. 

If she had been convicted, she would have had the right to an immediate appeal to the Circuit Court which is run by the prosecutor and a real judge and uses the rules of court and evidence you expect to see in a courtroom. Unlike if she started in Circuit Court and would have to request an appeal from an appellate court that they could deny. The Circuit Court has to hear the appeal from a Magistrate Court criminal case, but not a civil one. She wouldn't have to serve time until that hearing happened. It's called a hearing, but it is a brand new trial with the Magistrate Court decision rendered moot by the filing of the appeal. She could have requested it be held in Circuit Court from the beginning, but with the "free chance" being given by starting in Magistrate Court, no one ever does. I think this is why David isn't in jail for his protection order violation; he went through Magistrate and filed his appeal with the Circuit Court. For the most part, you can get your case taken care of in Magistrate Court months before it could be heard in Circuit Court. 

When we first heard about this case I didn't think she would get any serious time. It seemed that it was a mess from the beginning, with Nathan taking his girlfriend there purposely to aggravate Janelle, and no jury or judge would want to weed through this mess. Janelle will eventually kill someone, and then we will see her trial and conviction.

ETA: This assumes NC works the same way as WV does for Magistrate Courts. I didn't read the link that was posted way back when.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Christina
Added paragraph

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I live in Louisiana - our laws are different from most of the other states as they're based on Napoleonic Code. I've never heard of LE acting as the prosecution in any type of court here.

This whole police officers as prosecutors thing is just bizarre to me, especially given how many lawyers I know who have trouble finding jobs (there seem to be way more law school graduates than jobs). If I was a lawyer, that system where LE can act as prosecutors would drive me up the wall.

Edited January 8, 2017 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Christina]

If it is a violation of State law, it is almost always handled by an actual court system like we expect to see. The administrative agencies and some alternative sentencing programs use this type of system to relieve the court system. Drug Courts, Veteran's Courts, Mental Health Courts, etc., often use this type of hearing or use Law Masters, which is practically unheard of anymore in most of the country, but a Law Master is an attorney with a specialty in the field who issues a suggestion for a ruling to the Circuit Court (real) Judge to sign. WV used Law Masters to assist in getting all the domestic relations cases handled, since most everything could be agreed on at mediation, and only certain things actually need a judge to make a ruling. The ruling was typically like, "sell the house and split the profit" for everyone, if one party couldn't pay off another. The attorney I worked for had been made a Law Master for a few complex contract cases because that was his specialty. At some point in complex cases, it is reading hundreds of pages of documents and comparing what both parties claim, and the judges just don't have the time.

When you get things like a ticket from Animal Control, the hearing is based on the administrative rules set forth by The Animal Control Board, so they would hear the argument. It is not a violation of a State law, so the Prosecutor doesn't have a standing in the case, they cannot, by law, have an opinion at that stage. There has to be an option to appeal those rulings, which is why the Circuit Court has to hear them, and at that point, the Prosecutor would have the obligation to present the case for the Animal Control Board. If Janelle was charged under a City Ordinance, like I suspect, it probably caused the administrative rules to be the rules in effect for her trial, which landed her in Magistrate Court. If she had caused a more serious injury to the other woman (whose name I'm forgotten), it probably would have been charged under a different law, a tougher penalty would have applied, and she would have been tried in the Circuit Court.

Basically, Janelle is teflon to the court system for some unexplained reason.

[SPLAIN]

20 hours ago, Christina87 said:

True, and didn't Corey have the girls on the weekends back then?

Yes. 

@Christina thanks for all the insight.

Quote

When we first heard about this case I didn't think she would get any serious time. It seemed that it was a mess from the beginning, with Nathan taking his girlfriend there purposely to aggravate Janelle, and no jury or judge would want to weed through this mess. Janelle will eventually kill someone, and then we will see her trial and conviction.

I didn't expect her to spend a whole lot of time behind bars, if at all. To me, it was a joke how Jenelle was carrying on as if she was facing a felony charge and this would hamper an existing career.

Once Dave entered into Jenelle's life, any job prospects or job searching was no longer a priority. I have a big feeling he is not wanting Jenelle to have any kind of job or to even have any sort of life outside of her home. Going by the information about his previous dv charges, I think it is safe to assume he is just as controlling with Jenelle.  There is a peak preview on Jenelle's thread of an upcoming scene where Dave is pretty damn upset at Jenelle for just texting Nathan a response to his question about having Kaiser overnight. Jenelle seems pretty reasonable about the need to respond. Total DV abuser vibe is all I get from Dave. It is the same one I get with Matt. These guys can't bear to allow their partners to be out of their sight.

Edited January 9, 2017 by SPLAIN

[lezlers]

On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 4:15 PM, GreatKazu said:

The girls love to throw around the stress word for every.little.thing! They have no clue.

Thank you! You said what I have been thinking since I watched that farce. I don't get it. How is it there is no outrage? How many people have been fucked over by their system? How can a peace officer remain neutral on these matters? You have a defendant AND a witness who have criminal records. What if that peace officer had arrested Jenelle or Nathan in the past? Am I making sense here? I have incredible neck pain right now and a headache, so sorry if my rambling is not clear. Can you decipher what it is I am trying to convey here?

Not to mention the fact that people are, in general, predisposed to give more credence to things a peace officer says versus a regular citizen.  It's one of the main things discussed during jury selection in every trial! It's bad enough they're allowed to sit at counsel table during a trial, thereby giving a false sense of legitimacy the prosecutor, but to be the one ACTUALLY prosecuting the case? The defendant is at an automatic disadvantage having an officer, in FULL UNIFORM, telling the jury to convict him or her.  It's appalling.

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 0:50 AM, SimonSeymour said:

Ha!!  I am also a criminal defense attorney (I am an appellate public defender), and I just cannot understand how the state of South Carolina gets away with this!!  

I could not enjoy more that you share my outrage!

Public defender for the past 12 years! *high five*

[Mkay]

The previews for tonight's Teen Mom bother me. Is anyone else grossed out by Chelsea putting the pregnancy tests she just peed on on the counter, or is it just me? Yuck

[Brooklynista]

2 hours ago, Mkay said:

The previews for tonight's Teen Mom bother me. Is anyone else grossed out by Chelsea putting the pregnancy tests she just peed on on the counter, or is it just me? Yuck

Uh yeah!. Please don't expect me to eat at your house any time soon. That will forever be the pee counter.

And what's with touching other people's pee stick? It's urine people!

Edited January 10, 2017 by Brooklynista