S14.E03: Choke Holds and Clammy Hands

[GaT]

2 hours ago, Giselle said:

I've always understood a "progressive meal" is when a group of people come together and a different person prepares and serves a course  another facet to the progressive meal is to then move to a different venue for the next course and so on till completion.

I thought it was when people move to different locations too, but obviously nobody moved for this, so I have no idea why they're calling it a progressive meal.

[hks]

Loved this episode.  Love the mise en place challenge - it's fast-paced, exciting, and I'm always SUPER impressed with how fast the chefs can chop things.  I cannot for the life of me figure out how they don't cut off their fingers.  

And then I loved the head-to-head challenge.  Even if I am sure the "reality TV" aspect got us into a dessert tie-breaker.  They needed suspense and redemption for Brooke.  Still! I was excited for her.  She and Sheldon are my favorites.  And Jim, I guess, because he seems like a weirdo. 

Someone above commented, the best episodes are when everyone cooks well.  It's totally true, especially for this one.

[snarktini]

My impression is progressive means not simply any 7 plates, but 7 plates in an order that makes sense. A fancy way to say the courses are individual and equal (not different in size like app v. entree courses) but need to work together, like a tasting menu. The chefs have to work together to coordinate and plan so that the courses complement each other, selecting dishes that vary in intensity (starting light and building to heavy, or interspersing light between heavy), and ordering them in a way that creates an overall arc of eating experience.

[le bordel chaud]

I laughed when Richard Blais popped up, only because I find the hatred of him by some to be amusing and more than one person had professed their joy that he wasn't going to be on this season (oops!). I recently re-watched Season 4, and it holds up really well! Richard doesn't bother me at all, and he even gave one of his Elimination Challenge wins to Stephanie. He never put down Steph either; he was just genuinely disappointed in his finale performance. I LOVE Stephanie though and I hope there's an All Winner Season somewhere down the line.

[avecsans]

4 hours ago, archer1267 said:

I'll try to articulate why Richard bugs me (though there are winners/contestants I dislike far more than him). It was his attitude that Season 4 was his to lose, despite Stephanie having won the same number of challenges as him going into the finale. There's been a tendency on TC for male chefs to not take female competitors seriously. I'm not saying Richard fell into that trap and Stephanie's gender could have had nothing to do with that. But it still bothered me. And maybe it was editing, but whenever someone else won a QF or elimination challenge, the camera would often pan to Blais and he'd have a sour little look on his face. What made the sense of entitlement odd was his comment "I hate everything I put out." So...are you really that insecure, Richard? Or is it false modesty? How can you hate everything you do yet think you deserve to win?

This x 1,000.  Stephanie came in and calmly did her thing and won several challenges with no drama.  Blais never seemed to regard her as serious competition.  He really seemed to believe he was entitled to the win, and I would like to remind him that he came in behind Lisa Freaking Fernandes, the most intolerable cheftestant in Top Chef history.  And he still doesn't give Stephanie credit for the win because he claims he choked.  She had to revise her menu at the last minute after Dale left her pork belly out all night and she still kicked Blais's ass.  So, I can't speak for anyone else, but this is why I dislike Richard Blais.

[DHDancer]

I can't believe this is the best meal Padma has ever eaten in 15 seasons, sigh.  Radishes, seriously?  Also, why wasnt the tasting "blind"?  Oh, wait, silly me expecting a TRUE result based solely on the quality of the food.  The very least they should have done was a "this is Team Blue's Dish" vs "Team Green" with no specific person seen or mentioned.

Still, it is "must watch" for me, as it has been since Season 1.     BTW, can we quit with the Blais hate and the Who the hell is Amanda?  It's all been said already and frankly I doubt many of us care anymore.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Mise En Down The Road With Top Chef

Who wouldn't want to eat fourteen variations on radishes?

[twilightzone]

Eh, I could have done without Richard Blais coming back.

Sam did have a positive attitude re his elimination.  I think he will hang around LCK for a while.

I also can't believe Padma's claim that this is the best meal she had in 15 yrs?

I am rooting for Shirley or Brooke.  I also like Sheldon.  Of the newbies, the only ones that stands out are Sylvia and Sylva.

[sugarbaker design]

58 minutes ago, twilightzone said:

I also can't believe Padma's claim that this is the best meal she had in 15 yrs?

On Top Chef.

[FormerMod-a1]

And I think she was talking about complete meal, not just compared to a individual stellar dish.

[DHDancer]

I was referring to Top Chef and yes the entire meal.  Think back to all the finale meals for instance.  It's like Tim Gunn saying this season has the most talented designers ever:  smacks completely of short term memory and is a touch condescending to the folks who have been watching since time began....

Each to their own with regards to opinion.

[Bastet]

5 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

And I think she was talking about complete meal, not just compared to a individual stellar dish.

That's what I figured she and Tom were referring to when they both said it was the best in all their time on the show -- the idea that normally in challenges where they're doing individual dishes but have to work as a team to put them together into a meal, there are a couple of dishes that turn out just okay, or don't really fit in with the rest, but this time they really liked every single dish, and liked the way the dishes all worked together as a meal.

[spiderpig]

2 hours ago, twilightzone said:

 

I also can't believe Padma's claim that this is the best meal she had in 15 yrs?

 

To me it sounded scripted - to add to an otherwise lackluster season.  Radishes?

[VintageJ]

I thought I read that Padma is actually a vegetarian and only eats meat during Top Chef

[biakbiak]

5 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

They are SAG or AFTRA actors, paid to be on the show. I applied a bunch of times to be a diner on different shows, and every single application asked if I was in either union. Nope. Therefore, I never heard from them. A good friend who is an actress has been a taster or a focus group person on two different shows.

I know three people who have been on TC as diners and none of them were in SAG/AFTRA. 

I love radishes, my favorite snack since I was a child is radishes with butter and salt so I was salivating over the meal.

Sad to see Sam go.

Edited December 16, 2016 by biakbiak

[chiaros]

21 minutes ago, VintageJ said:

I thought I read that Padma is actually a vegetarian and only eats meat during Top Chef

Yes, that is true.

http://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/padma-lakshmi-im-mostly-vegetarian-off-of-top-chef

But Gail Simmons is also largely vegetarian in her everyday diet "although she is not a vegetarian".

http://www.bravotv.com/top-chef/season-6/blogs/gail-simmons/shes-a-vegetarian

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/12/health/la-he-five-questions-gail-simmons-20120512

There have been discussions elsewhere about how credible they are as judges on TC where most of the dishes tend to be meat-centric** or at least pescatarian, if they actually cook so little meat themselves; and it isn't clear that they dine out AND eat meat dishes THAT frequently when not on the show.

** Cooking a vegetarian meal on TC has, over the years, been second only to "making dessert" as the horror-of-all-assignments to the majority of the cheftestants.

[JunebugTx]

7 hours ago, Giselle said:

I've always understood a "progressive meal" is when a group of people come together and a different person prepares and serves a course  another facet to the progressive meal is to then move to a different venue for the next course and so on till completion.

They did what I always thought a progressive meal was on the Texas season - they went to one house in Dallas for appetizers, another house for the entree, and a 3rd house for dessert.  I think my parents may have done that with a church group once or twice.  Or we did it for youth group.  Or something like that.

[meowmommy]

4 hours ago, DHDancer said:

BTW, can we quit with the Blais hate and the Who the hell is Amanda?  It's all been said already and frankly I doubt many of us care anymore.

I for one will never tire of people validating my distress at Blais's inexplicable elevation to judge, and nerdy, finicky, pedantic judge at that.  

[VintageJ]

Thanks Chiaros.  Thanks for the links.  

[rho]

6 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

They are SAG or AFTRA actors, paid to be on the show. I applied a bunch of times to be a diner on different shows, and every single application asked if I was in either union. Nope. Therefore, I never heard from them. A good friend who is an actress has been a taster or a focus group person on two different shows.

Really? Seems like the opposite would be true. No production wants to blow their budget on a hired audience. Pretty sure they're asking so they don't have to pay the appearance fee. That said, a select few might be plants but I doubt everyone is getting paid to sit pretty and eat.

I was actually starting to warm up to Sam this episode. He kept cheering on Sylvia which was really nice. But then again it only meant the editors were about to treat us to a season-long romance between the two, or one of them is getting the boot. Glad it wasn't her.

[cooksdelight]

@rho, that's what I was told by my friend who appeared on 2 shows. As BiakBiak said, not all are paid actors, but the ones they interview who speak usually are. Everyone, regardless of their affiliation with SAG/AFTRA, is paid to appear and signs a release form allowing production to show them on TV. At any rate, it's why I don't give these audience voting episodes a whole lot of credence. Ultimately, it's Tom & Padma who have the final say of who stays and who goes.

[zxy556575]

Have there been many instances of blind judging on the show? They always want the dishes explained to them and to be able to grill the chefs on ingredients and preparation techniques, not to mention quibbling over the fucking names.

I haven't taken a crack at Blais yet so I'll add that my distaste stems from what a fame whore he's become. His IMDB page lists 35 appearances on separate shows as "self," several of them multiple times. Go away, already! (I also admit that Carla Hall has 27 such credits and I still adore her, so there's something else at play with Richard and his supercilious face.)

I appreciate everyone's suggestions for Amanda prodding, but I still don't remember her.  ;)

Edited December 17, 2016 by lordonia

[Dahmerdoll]

I have to echo all of the previous (negative) comments about Blais, and no, I will NEVER "quit with the Blais hate", not as long as his smug face, annoying voice, and cheesy comments darken my television screen.

I didn't recognize Amanda by sight; it's the bangs.  During Season 7's school lunch challenge ep, Amanda used sherry to make a chicken dish, and when she was dinged for it by JT (mostly for the cost of the wine) she said something akin to "It's not like I poured it down their throats".  She also made some gray tuna for a challenge at a DC Nationals game. 

[spiderpig]

My big peeve with Blais is "this dish isn't good" (long dramatic pause) "it's fantastic!"

(spidy rolls her eyes and refills wineglass...)

[bitchin camaro]

My stupid uverse receiver died this week so I couldn't watch last night, and the Bravo streaming site cut out the elimination portion of the show. I like Sam, and really wanted terrible-pork-guy to go home, but apparently that's not how it worked out. Terrible-pork-guy's gross messy hands while he was plating made me hate him even more. I usually like bearded hipster dudes, so I'm not sure why I dislike this one so much (so much that I can't even remember his name.) Boo hiss.

[Spunkygal]

9 hours ago, hks said:

Loved this episode.  Love the mise en place challenge - it's fast-paced, exciting, and I'm always SUPER impressed with how fast the chefs can chop things.  I cannot for the life of me figure out how they don't cut off their fingers.  

And then I loved the head-to-head challenge.  Even if I am sure the "reality TV" aspect got us into a dessert tie-breaker.  They needed suspense and redemption for Brooke.  Still! I was excited for her.  She and Sheldon are my favorites.  And Jim, I guess, because he seems like a weirdo. 

Someone above commented, the best episodes are when everyone cooks well.  It's totally true, especially for this one.

Huh? Jim's the weirdo in this group? 

[Happytobehere]

I knew Sam was gone the minute he said he didn't bake the bread,

Hate the faux drama of which team would win.  These things always lessen the enjoyment of the show for me.  I want to see a cooking competition not Amazing Race, the Food Edition.

[queenjen]

17 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

There's a great variety of flavors, and intensity of flavors, in radishes.  This is true even in the same type of radish, and then add in the different types of radishes these chefs had to cook with, I can see it making for a very good meal.  I like radishes, but not all.  Some are mild and almost sweet and more light and crispy than crunchy.  Some are quite spicy.  Some are rather crunchy, almost hard.  And so on.  The soil they are grown in has a huge impact on the flavor and/or intensity of flavor.  That's why sometimes even the same radish type can vary greatly each time you have them.

My first introduction to Daikon radish was from an antique book of Chinese/Indian Kama Sutra plates. I was a kid. There was an illustration of a woman being 'pleasured with a daikon'. I had to look up Daikon. I snicker even now when I see them in my local Asian fruit and veg store. In Australia, before the daikon, we were lucky to see the little redskin ball shaped, white flesh radish. I know it's peppery and it might appear occasionally here in a salad or a relish, but radish has never really been a phenomenon in my part of the world. So this challenge was kinda curious to me. To say the least.

[wallflower75]

I should have seen that it was going to be Sam this week over B.J., who yet again seemed to underwhelm the judges.  But given the choice between underwhelming and calling something what it isn't, the latter loses every time, I guess.  *shrug*  Oh well.  I also should've guessed that when everyone praised Silvia's dessert to the heavens and Brooke was struggling with hers that it wasn't going to go down like I figured.

If I hadn't been before, I am now officially over Katsuji.  I know there's a little bit of gamesmanship in every competition, but Katsuji's blatantly being an ass.  I may be saying this now because he was picking on Jim, but I found his attempts to get under John's skin just as annoying.  (Wait, did I just subliminally take John Tesar's side in something?  EEP!!)

[Texasmom1970]

On 12/15/2016 at 10:19 PM, Court said:

I find Casey irritating. The other dude messed up the pork last week, right? I wanted him to go for that still. I also think that they partly felt they needed to send a veteran home. 

Thank heavens it's not just me, she bugs the shit out of me. Don't know if it's her attitude or what, can't quite explain why!

[spiderpig]

Casey reminds me of over-confident kids in elementary school who nonetheless got the "doesn't seem to play well with others" comment on their report cards.

I'm leaning toward Team Jim.  He seems like an endearing dork.

[Wings]

Just now, spiderpig said:

Casey reminds me of over-confident kids in elementary school who nonetheless got the "doesn't seem to play well with others" comment on their report cards.

I'm leaning toward Team Jim.  He seems like an endearing dork.

Yes and yes!

[cooksdelight]

It's the way Casey holds her nose up when she talks. Brooke does the same thing, and I'm starting to see a little of Casey in her. I understand how hard it is for women in the chef world so I don't hold it against them for trying to be over-confident. But it's how Casey says things that bugs. Watch them in the THs next time.

[lh25]

23 hours ago, hks said:

And then I loved the head-to-head challenge.  Even if I am sure the "reality TV" aspect got us into a dessert tie-breaker.

And the minute it came down to desserts, I know the cake was going to lose, because of how much everyone was praising it earlier. 

[micat]

21 hours ago, chiaros said:

There have been discussions elsewhere about how credible they are as judges on TC where most of the dishes tend to be meat-centric** or at least pescatarian, if they actually cook so little meat themselves; and it isn't clear that they dine out AND eat meat dishes THAT frequently when not on the show.

** Cooking a vegetarian meal on TC has, over the years, been second only to "making dessert" as the horror-of-all-assignments to the majority of the cheftestants.

That's funny. As if being a vegetarian normally makes it so you can't taste a dish with meat in it properly? Can't judge its balance, flavor, seasoning, spiciness, sweetness, depth of flavor, etc? Hmm, as a long-time vegetarian, I'll have to mull that one over. I'm pretty sure the way I taste food is the same as always. Padma and Gail know what meat and fish taste like, they have eaten a wide variety of cuisines. If anything, I would say that they could be fairer as judges, having a wider notion of what food can be good, than the meat-eaters we sometimes get who act like if there's no bacon there's no possible flavor, or are so limited as to think that the only way you can develop flavor is with animal products.

Chiaros, even though I quoted you, this is a rhetorical question, not directed at you personally.

To the comment that vegetarian dishes are anathema on Top Chef - I have been rather pleased in the later seasons because there has been less and less of that attitude. There is so much of world cuisine that is naturally vegetarian and even vegan - it makes me happy to see other ways of developing flavor be embraced rather than categorically shunned.

Edited December 17, 2016 by micat

[dleighg]

On 12/16/2016 at 1:52 AM, Court said:

Also, co-sign on Amanda. Who is she? I've watched every season.

She's gained some weight in her face and does not look as much like "herself" in her season as the other returnees. But she certainly was in the D.C. season!

http://www.tvguide.com/celebrities/amanda-baumgarten/photos/304711/

[backgroundnoise]

As soon as they said that only the chefs losing their individual courses would face elimination, I knew it had to come down to a tie, because it wouldn't be fair to not include someone for consideration just because they hadn't shown their course yet.

I like the one-on-one nature, but I'd rather it be a completely blind test.  Everyone eats all the courses without knowing even which team made what, and vote on all courses before the results are revealed.  I would think that would provide enough drama.

[biakbiak]

4 minutes ago, backgroundnoise said:

As soon as they said that only the chefs losing their individual courses would face elimination, I knew it had to come down to a tie, because it wouldn't be fair to not include someone for consideration just because they hadn't shown their course yet.

 

Well if their dish wasn't judged they wouldn't have lost so they wouldn't have been up for elimination. I mean it was obvious it was going to go all rounds because of the dessert storyline but people who weren't judged would not have been up for elimination under the guidelines. That said there was absolutely no reason they shouldn't have just done a head to head all the way through and not done the first team to four course "twist" because it didn't really add any tension.

[biakbiak]

Oops.

Edited December 17, 2016 by biakbiak

[meowmommy]

18 minutes ago, backgroundnoise said:

As soon as they said that only the chefs losing their individual courses would face elimination, I knew it had to come down to a tie, because it wouldn't be fair to not include someone for consideration just because they hadn't shown their course yet.

It's happened before.  In All-Stars, the team competition was decided before Top Scallop Jamie, who hid under a table, would have had to present.  So she got a bye.

That said, it was painfully obvious here that the judges were going to make it come down to the dessert round.  There were so many better ways to have managed this competition, most of which would have included secret or blind judging.

[snarktini]

But why stop presenting just because a team wins before all the rounds are served? Each head to head could still proceed, so there's a winner/loser for each round. The suspense would be over, but it seems more practical and would give every chef a chance to serve what they created. I'd also guess it might prevent judge interference (if there is any) to keep it an even race until the end.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

As if being a vegetarian normally makes it so you can't taste a dish with meat in it properly? Can't judge its balance, flavor, seasoning, spiciness, sweetness, depth of flavor, etc?

It wasn't MY experience - I went vegetarian and then vegan for a year and a half and returned to rare as hell filet mignon with a great big YUM! But I have vegetarian friends who enjoyed meat before they turned vegetarian and now find the taste of meat quite off putting

[theatremouse]

On 12/15/2016 at 7:38 PM, spankydoll said:

I am confused by the attitude that the returning chefs are superior in their talents. They gave just been in the TV show. Been on the TV show and lost to boot!

They're not necessarily superior in their talents but they should be superior at this game, because the show is absolutely a game, and the never-played-before chefs do have that disadvantage.

On 12/15/2016 at 10:29 PM, Bastet said:

I don't bat an eye at chefs who stick a spoon back in the food after tasting it, but those who drip sweat into it gross my out (I'm completely blasé about germs in general; I just have a major thing about other people's perspiration), so watching John was making me ill.

Amanda was grossing me out as she was tapping her tasting spoon on the edge of the container, as if to intentionally drip the stuff back in, both after having someone else taste with said spoon and then tasting from that spoon herself. Fucking gross. I only hope it got cooked again and to a hot enough temp to kill anything.

[queenjen]

What is it that Sylvia is doing in her THs? She sort of throws her head back when she's speaking. It kind of looks arrogant or defensive, but her Italian accent kind of mitigates that. It's strange. Not annoying, kind of ...peppy?

[snarktini]

1 hour ago, queenjen said:

What is it that Sylvia is doing in her THs? She sort of throws her head back when she's speaking. It kind of looks arrogant or defensive, but her Italian accent kind of mitigates that. It's strange. Not annoying, kind of ...peppy?

A lot of people tilt their heads back in still photos...maybe video is the same? "Drop your chin" is the number one tip I have to give people when taking photos. It's like people are trying to get farther from the camera or something.

[HunterHunted]

On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 5:33 PM, chiaros said:

Yes, that is true.

http://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/padma-lakshmi-im-mostly-vegetarian-off-of-top-chef

But Gail Simmons is also largely vegetarian in her everyday diet "although she is not a vegetarian".

http://www.bravotv.com/top-chef/season-6/blogs/gail-simmons/shes-a-vegetarian

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/12/health/la-he-five-questions-gail-simmons-20120512

There have been discussions elsewhere about how credible they are as judges on TC where most of the dishes tend to be meat-centric** or at least pescatarian, if they actually cook so little meat themselves; and it isn't clear that they dine out AND eat meat dishes THAT frequently when not on the show.

** Cooking a vegetarian meal on TC has, over the years, been second only to "making dessert" as the horror-of-all-assignments to the majority of the cheftestants.

Vegetarian meals are so often terrible on Top Chef because the cheftestants are so protein focused. It's funny because they all make fantastic veg and starches, but tell them that they can't use animal protein and their brains short circuit. Remember the neighborhood challenge on the California season. The vegan group self destructed, which did include Philip and explains some of that disaster. However, the group cooking in the Tehrangeles section of town made 2 vegetarian dishes without realizing.

I'm glad that Chris Cosentino of all people made them focus on radishes.

[biakbiak]

15 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I'm glad that Chris Cosentino of all people made them focus on radishes.

He actually does great vegetarian/vegan dishes. Two of my Vegan friends favorite SF restaurant was his old restaurant Incanto.

[wallflower75]

14 hours ago, theatremouse said:

They're not necessarily superior in their talents but they should be superior at this game, because the show is absolutely a game, and the never-played-before chefs do have that disadvantage.

As we saw in the first elimination challenge when the veterans, having done the rapid shopping with a budget thing before, knew what they were doing--whereas the rookies didn't and got hamstrung as a result.  It may not seem like a big thing, but every little advantage helps.

[theajw]

On 12/16/2016 at 7:39 PM, rho said:

Really? Seems like the opposite would be true. No production wants to blow their budget on a hired audience. Pretty sure they're asking so they don't have to pay the appearance fee. That said, a select few might be plants but I doubt everyone is getting paid to sit pretty and eat.

*raises hand*

South Carolinian here.  In May there was call to be a diner on the show, actually in their words "several dining opportunities."  I sent in an email and got a canned response about the "overwhelming number of responses."  I hate radishes, so in this case, I'm glad I never heard back.  

I really hope we see more of the city.  What have we seen so far?  Boone Hall and the Whole Foods in Mt. Pleasant, and the interstitial cliched images of carriages and church steeples.  

[cooksdelight]

@theajw, maybe they'll cook for the cast of "Southern Charm" and drunk Thomas will show up. LOL