S03.E09: The Present

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Barry goes to Earth-3 to get advice from Jay Garrick on how to stop Savitar. Wally wants to help Barry fight Savitar and reveals that he's been training with H.R., which doesn't go over well with Barry. Meanwhile, old wound are reopened when Cisco faces his first Christmas without his brother Dante.

[cambridgeguy]

I'm not sure why tossing the box into the speed force is a better option than locking it in a room with airtight security or having the Legends drop the thing off on the moon.  I'd rather know where the thing is instead of just hoping it never reappears, especially since Savitar's little speech pretty much guarantees a future encounter.

[Lantern7]

Oh, good. More manpain for Barry. Just what we needed for Christmas. I'm guessing Iris will be safe because she's canon, but it's still annoying.

And Barry takes the mask off. Again. Aside from Capt. Singh, who doesn't know Barry is Flash? Of course, Julian/Albert winds up okay with it because he's "cured."  Also, he probably went to the same archeology class as June Moone.

Hey, we'll be getting Plunder before the end of the season. And he will come off better than Riverdale. Is the CW that averse to Mark Waid that they'd ignore his Archie revamp?

And Wally will finally fulfill his destiny. He's still a bit of a dumbass, which will remind Barry of himself. Still waiting for Joe to beat the living shit out of Huckster.

Hi, Jay! And hi, Mark Hamil! You didn't add anything to the plot, but it's nice to see him not being Old, Old Luke Skywalker. You think Jay knows he's a variant of Barry's dad? At least JWS makes the old school look work for him. Here's hoping we get a little more of Earth-3 down the line.

[bettername2come]

So can we assume that per Savitar's prophecy:

Cisco's going to turn on the team (Caitlin not the bad one in the vision). 

Iris is going to die (per Barry's trip to the future)

Barry suffers a fate worse than death (vanishing in the Crisis)

Overall I liked it. Tell me, what set did they redo for that apartment?

[unlfan03]

27 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

Overall I liked it. Tell me, what set did they redo for that apartment?

Felicity and Oliver's from Arrow.

[KirkB]

Am I the only one who thinks throwing the box either containing or connected to the so-called God of Speed into the Speed Force itself is a bad idea? It's not too different from trying to douse the Human Torch with gasoline. Or rocket fuel. But I'm probably overreacting. I'm sure sure it'll turn out fine.

Wally gets a costume. Hooray. I still find him annoying. Though I am also annoyed by the way Barry and Joe and Iris are treating him. Annoying or not, he is an adult (or is he? How old is he supposed to be?) and if he wants to put on a funny suit and break the sound barrier that's his business. Joe and Iris can voice their concerns but in the end the decision is his. On the subject of the suit itself, I have two issues. 1) Who decided to use colors so similar to the Reverse Flash's it ought to be giving Barry nightmares and 2) Why is his head and most of his face uncovered, which seems to defeat the purpose of a mask?

Soo...Caitlin is so in control, and no longer afraid of her powers turning her evil, she can just casually manipulate the weather?

Other than having a god complex, I still don't see what Savitar gets out of having worshipers. And even if he does feel the need to have people bow to him why does he insist on them being metahumans?

Oh, so the very first speedster is an actual thing. So well known he's a legend on Earth 3. It's too bad Barry has never been in the Speed Force, the source of all their powers, so it could tell/warn him about such a potential treat. For that matter, Savitar has shown up because Barry got it's attention, but he never seemed to notice Zoom? Who had used his speed to take over a whole world?

[Maverick]

37 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

And Barry takes the mask off. Again. Aside from Capt. Singh, who doesn't know Barry is Flash?

 Joe's girlfriend, who was also the only one at the party not in on the secret.   Being at a festive event with people your comfortable being around around, chugging alcohol...I'm sure no one will slip up about Barry running to France for coffee.  Or Wally new suit.  Or Dr. Snow making it snow.   Or Cisco vibing what in the packages under the tree.

[Solara19]

I'm a relative newbie to this show - I started watching it late last year.

The glimpse given of Earth 3 with its zeppelins reminded me a lot of one of my favorite shows - Fringe. 

I was wondering if the show runners were fans of that show. The speech from the elder Flash also reminded me of Fringe. So did the ending of the episode, which I thought quite effective.

Are the zeppelins just a coincidence then?

[johntfs]

On 12/6/2016 at 8:20 PM, Lantern7 said:

 You think Jay knows he's a variant of Barry's dad? At least JWS makes the old school look work for him. Here's hoping we get a little more of Earth-3 down the line.

Jay does know.  It was part of the conversation when they went to Eaarth 3 1998 and had the "Don't break time, Barry!" discussion.

I did like they they didn't end on some silly cliffhanger.  They set up the future story to appear right in time for May sweeps but otherwise left everyone in a pretty good place.  I liked that Julian wasn't really evil, just mind-whammied.  Also, apparently Caitlin has enough control of her power to produce a white Christmas.  Cisco is over the Barry-hate but still grieves for his brother.

As for the Stone, Jesus, just lock it up.  Or call the Legends and them drop it into a black hole.  Or, hey, give it to Kara on Earth-who-gives-a-crap to store with the DEO, you know the place with alarm and people with guns and the cute blond girl that could bitchslap Savitar through several walls that also doesn't get broken into on a near constant basis for those very reasons.

Edited December 8, 2016 by johntfs

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm so sick and tired of these writers just regurgitating the same plots over and over again. That scene of Savitar stabbing Iris through her back and chest is EXACTLY how Zoom killed Henry.  If I am forced to watch this dreck, then I damn well expect the show to let Grant sing ? during a Christmas ? episode!!!

Then there's the stupidity of throwing the stone in the speedforce/eternity, something that Savitar told them that's what Barry had done didn't occur to them? Barry should have contacted Kara to take it off his hands and then have her throw it out in her Earth's space !! ?

Is this the show runners' idea of returning to some lightness? They can all just fuck off.

im going back to watch season one now, thankyouverymuch.?????????

Edited December 7, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[SimoneS]

Did I miss Barry and Iris having sex? Because it is strange that they are moving in together when they have never had sex. That being said, they are a good looking couple and have taken the chemistry up notch. She looked sexy as hell in that tight red dress seating partially on his lap.

Edited December 7, 2016 by SimoneS

[bluvelvet]

Hmmm.. Savitar said that Barry damned him to eternity, for some reason I think that has to do with Barry throwing him in the speed force, since the speed force is also "eternity." Somehow this is gonna loop back in some way..

Barry and Iris were very cute but them living together is not such a big deal, as they did grow up living in the same house etc..

 

I definitely think Cisco will be the betrayer or H.R

[RedVitC]

I'll probably have more thoughts later, but for now.

I cried during that scene with Barry and Iris and then I cried again during that scene in their new home. Well done to the actors! 

Since it seems the rest of the season will be about preventing this, I don't think it'll actually happen.

[catrice2]

I think it was Henry  betraying them by telling him to throw it into the Speedforce, or Jay or whomever he is.   I agree, it seems like just one episode ago they were still questioning the relationship.  Are we to assume Barry took out the lease before he saw the vision of Iris dying?  Cisco is so annoying, but not as annoying as Wally.  

Honestly HR bothers me less than any other version of Wells.  Joe will probably "fall," but nice to see him with a love interest! 

[benteen]

Tom Felton is playing a character looking for The Philosopher’s Stone…they’re not even trying to be subtle with the Harry Potter references, are they?

Despite several issues, I ended up enjoying this one a lot.  Maybe it was the Christmas theme but I liked it.

I’m glad Cisco acknowledged that his relationship with his brother wasn’t a close one.

Iris looked smoking at the end of the episode.

Good lord though, I agree.  Savitar killing Iris by stabbing her in the back and Barry begging him to stop was THE SAME EXACT SCENE from last season with Zoom and Henry.  That was a pathetic rehash, even by Flash standards.

Nice to see John Wesley Shipp and his BRIGHT WHITE caps back.  Seriously, he sounds like he’s talking with dentures now that I like the Jay character a lot.

Nice to see Mark Hamill as Earth-3 Trickster.

[ruby24]

17 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Did I miss Barry and Iris having sex? Because is strange that they are moving in together when they have never had sex. That being said, they are a good looking couple and have taken the chemistry up notch. She looked sexy as hell in that tight red dress seating partially on his lap.

No, I was thinking the exact same thing. I couldn't believe it, actually. That scene seemed to imply very clearly they've already slept together (he referenced her place) and I guess we just didn't even get to see it or know about it.

WOW. That's pretty fucked. I feel robbed, actually. They wrote a post-coital first sex scene with him and Patty (it was deleted but posted on itunes last season) and they give NOTHING to their so-called main couple? Nothing?

FUCK that. I'm super pissed. That's bullshit. Flat bullshit. It makes me think the actors don't like each other or the writers don't really like them together or something. I'm sorry, but what the hell other show would do something like that? I seem to remember Oliver and Felicity getting a pretty heavy sex scene.

Edited December 7, 2016 by ruby24

[TobinAlbers]

35 minutes ago, KirkB said:

Am I the only one who thinks throwing the box either containing or connected to the so-called God of Speed into the Speed Force itself is a bad idea? 

It'll either power him up something fierce or taint the speed force. I like someone's idea of burying the sucker on the moon.

Are we sure Jay didn't shoot Barry into the future on purpose? Like he's somehow testing him? Something about that was shady.

HR needing some mint tea and a lay down after Savitar laid out his prophecy had me chortling so hard I had to pause the TV. He got me again when he was drunkenly blurting out Caitco and Ciscan. You will know shit is real when/if HR loses his shit and gets serious.

Can't believe I'm saying this after bitching about her nearly killing him two episodes ago, but I could be in on a Julian/Caitlin ship. But like Sam Winchester the girl has the crappiest luck with men so and Julian will either die like Ronnie or go irreversibly evil like Zoom. In any case, Felton acted his ass off tonight. Well done, sir!

Pauses, like commas, are important. You could interpret Savitar as saying 'I'm the future, Flash' or 'I'm the future Flash.' I wouldn't put it past this crew to play semantics/word games and the Savitar mask drops and we get a raided up Barry. Having said that human Savitar before he donned his suit was quite ripped! And they made a point of not showing his face.

I've never been passionately for or against WestAllen as I can accept a noncanon coupling if the chemistry is right (see Olicity) but I've also always believed in Barry's deep aching love for Iris;  I've been looking for a moment of them as a couple where I could start believing in them. Tonight when he brought her to that loft and they celebrating their new beginning might've been that moment.

Edited December 7, 2016 by TobinAlbers

[Cthulhudrew]

You'd think with all the time travel shenanigans he himself has pulled over the past three seasons, Barry wouldn't have such a hard time believing that the future he ended up in may just be a possible future, right? An alternate timeline?

Is it just me?

[SimoneS]

4 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

No, I was thinking the exact same thing. I couldn't believe it, actually. That scene seemed to imply very clearly they've already slept together (he referenced her place) and I guess we just didn't even get to see it or know about it.

WOW. That's pretty fucked. I feel robbed, actually. They wrote a post-coital first sex scene with him and Patty (it was deleted but posted on itunes last season) and they give NOTHING to their so-called main couple? Nothing?

FUCK that. I'm super pissed. That's bullshit. Flat bullshit. It makes me think the actors don't like each other or the writers don't really like them together or something. I'm sorry, but what the hell other show would do something like that? I seem to remember Oliver and Felicity getting a pretty heavy sex scene.

So you think that they were implying that Barry and Iris had sex previously and they just didn't bother showing it? I couldn't figure out what the show was trying to say there. However, that makes sense. The writers have never been invested or cared about Iris or Barry and Iris' romance so it follows that they wouldn't bother showing any intimate scenes between them and just have them move in together.

[dirtypop90]

3 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

So you think that they were implying that Barry and Iris had sex previously and they just didn't bother showing it? I couldn't figure out what the show was trying to say there. However, that makes sense. The writers have never been invested or cared about Iris or Barry and Iris' romance so it follows that they wouldn't bother showing any intimate scenes between them and just have them move in together.

Yep. Westallen is the main couple but TPTB are not invested in them or Iris, just Barry and GG

[ruby24]

7 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

So you think that they were implying that Barry and Iris had sex previously and they just didn't bother showing it? I couldn't figure out what the show was trying to say there. However, that makes sense. The writers have never been invested or cared about Iris or Barry and Iris' romance so it follows that they wouldn't bother showing any intimate scenes between them and just have them move in together.

I mean, that's the impression I got.

I still can't believe they did that though! I mean, I can't think of another show (much less a CW show) that would flat out skip right over a first time sex scene for their MAIN COUPLE. You don't think...it's not because they're an interracial couple is it? Like they don't want anything too intimate?

I know that sounds nuts, but I'm just trying to think of a possible reason why the supposed main couple would not get any sort of sex scene, post-coital, anything. I know the show's fairly tame, but man. That's really, really pointed, imo. To just leave that out altogether. I feel completely cheated.

Edited December 7, 2016 by ruby24

[Cthulhudrew]

Also: Wally continues to be annoying. First he tells HR that he understands his concerns and will keep things secret for now, then almost immediately reneges on that promise and throws HR under the bus. Ugh. 

I did like that convo between HR and Joe (Tom Cavanagh manages to salvage even the worst writing situations). I really wish they'd have given a scene to Joe and Wally to discuss, rather than having everyone just shrug and laugh it off when they presented Wally with a costume. Jesse Martin would have rocked the heck out of that scene, and why bother having these dramatic conflicts if you're not going to give them a suitable emotional payoff? (Or any payoff, for that matter?)

The CGI villain still bugs, but otherwise, it was a pretty decent episode.

[Lady Calypso]

The training scene with HR and Wally was supposed to be funny, but I'm so annoyed by Petulant Child Wally and HR that I rolled my eyes instead and wanted Savitar to be after Wally instead. I really did like Wally last season too. All the characters have become quite annoying. Wally's too enthusiastic to run into danger. He doesn't seem to care about saving people; all he cares about is looking cool and proving to people that he has a superpower like Barry. That's not exactly a good way to start out being a hero.

I know it's such a thing, but I almost cried from laughter at Julian uttering the words "Philosopher's Stone".

It was nice to get Iris actually doing some reporting/researching of her own. I honestly probably would have been more sad at the future Iris death if we hadn't already seen it with Henry, with almost the exact words. I assume if Barry saves Iris, someone else will have to replace her in death. I vote Wally. 

The Jay/Savitar fight looked so fake and kind of comic book-y. The Alchemy reveal probably would have been better if we didn't already know. But I am glad that Julian doesn't seem like he's actually evil. As for the "resolution" to the Speed Box, that's soooo not coming to bite them in the ass six episodes from now. 

You see, the Cisco seeing his dead brother thing and getting tricked by it would have been a better reason for Cisco to stop blaming Barry, not whatever happened in the crossover. So I'm going to pretend Cisco opening the book led him to forgive Barry. I know Cisco was mind whammied but it makes more sense to me.

I can't help but wonder if Julian will have to die to get rid of Savitar on E1. I don't want him to, but it's a possibility, though I'm a little confused by the whole Savitar/Julian connection. Also show, don't do the Caitlin/Julian thing. Not because I don't see the potential, but because her love interests have turned out dead and/or evil. 

Savitar said betrayal, fall, and fate worse than death. So technically, he never said anyone died. So if Iris does get stabbed and killed, maybe she doesn't die but her soul or something gets trapped somewhere like the Speed Force. 

I guess Barry is going Option B, which is not breaking up with Iris to protect her from the future, but moving forward in their relationship. I mean, I hate that we probably missed their first sex scene, but I'm glad we don't have them breaking up. Most shows would have broken them up. 

[catrice2]

A wallet??  Really?  That so does not fit Iris' personality....even though it fits Barry.  Right, you are supposed to have a "creative" mind as a reporter and you get the man who travels not only the world, but to other timelines a wallet? 

I find John Wesley Shipp distracting, and the Trickster at the beginning was unnecessary.  Clearly I am not as invested because the other posts have told me at least 10 things I didn't notice in the episode an I watched the whole thing! 

[SimoneS]

18 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I mean, that's the impression I got.

I still can't believe they did that though! I mean, I can't think of another show (much less a CW show) that would flat out skip right over a sex scene for their MAIN COUPLE. You don't think...it's not because they're an interracial couple is it? Like they don't want anything too intimate?

It is so odd that they skipped Barry and Iris' first time that it is believeable that it is because they are interracial couple. I cannot come up another reason. This is CW where every main couple on every single show that I have watched has at least one hot sex scene. 

Edited December 7, 2016 by SimoneS

[catrice2]

Who is the mystery daughter always calling Cecile?  So Savitar is Eddie? I hope not?

[mtlchick]

Chomp on that scenery, Hamill!  Now with funky hair, zany suit and flower, you remind me of another prankster from Gotham...

looks like they spent all of their budget last week as this week the CGI were a mess and now we're recycling apartments. It's Vancouver, dammit!  You can at least get them a water view!

Edited December 7, 2016 by mtlchick

[GHScorpiosRule]

I don't know why they refuse to show Barry and Iris having sex, or being intimate. It can't be because they're interracial, because they showed Iris in bed with  Eddie in the first season.

And I forgot to mention how Earth 3's Trickster looked like some freaky version of the Joker and Tim Curry!?

Edited December 7, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[ruby24]

10 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

It is so odd that they skipped Barry and Iris' first time that it is believeable it is because they are interracial couple. I cannot come up another reason. This is CW where every main couple on every single show that I have watched has at least one hot sex scene. 

Exactly! I can't believe it. This is making a huge statement, whether they realize it or not!

And I'm thinking now that there is absolutely no way in HELL that they would leave out a first time sex scene for a white couple (because they didn't, as I mentioned before, with that scene that happened with him and Patty).

It's such an egregious omission that it really, really stands out to me. I honestly never thought they wouldn't have one. I thought there's no way the main couple of a CW show has sex offscreen and is brushed off. This is the final straw for me- there's a strange reason they don't want to let Barry and Iris be too intimate, and this episode was all the proof I need. I don't know what it is, but something's going on.

Edited December 7, 2016 by ruby24

[thuganomics85]

Man, so Savitar is a speedster from the future, that Barry apparently fucks over, somehow?  Poor guy is pissing people off before he's even done anything, yet!  But Barry goes to the future (accidentally, at least!), and see that Savitar will kill Iris, so this will no doubt cast a huge shadow over him (and the season.)  Also, according to Savitar (through Julian), someone in the team will betray them and another will have a fate worst then death.  I so think Cisco is going to be the one that betrays them, and that is what is really going on during the Vibe vs. Killer Frost "vibe."

Julian being obsessed with something called the Philosopher's Stone is such an obvious nod to Harry Potter, that they might as well have him confess his real last name is Malfoy.  At least he wasn't evil, and was being mind-controlled.  Still hilarious that Barry's already revealed his identity to him, considering how long he drug his feet over it for Iris, who is suppose to be the most important person in his life.  But I hope Julian sticks around, because Tom Felton has easily been one of the highlights of the season.

Joe and Iris finally let Wally be Wally, and even give him a suit for Christmas.  Yippee, I guess.  He's still a dummy, and still reckless, so I don't see him going for too long without screwing up.  And as much as I love Tom Cavanagh, I think I've accepted that I don't really find H.R. entertaining.  I miss Dickish Harry.  Can't they just find some way to have him and Jesse Quick have to come back and hang out?

 Throwing the box inside the Speed Force portal actually sounds like a very bad idea and there were so many other options.  Hand it off the Legends gang and they can hide it.  Or Kara and her planet.  I get not wanting anyone else to have it, but you probably need to at least have an idea where it is.  It's going to so end up in someone else's hands, despite their efforts.

The visit to Earth 3 was a fun diversion, especially with Mark Hamill camping it up again as another version of The Trickster.

Midseason finale kind of went out on a downer note.  Not sure if they'll pick it back up from the break or not.

[catrice2]

Did they get new writers? In the first season there were scenes that they were able to write sexual tension with Barry and Iris.  What happened?  They need to do more with Julian.  No other information on how Caitlyn is progressing with her powers?  They pretty much telegraphed Iris being in peril a few episodes ago, so that was not a surprise.  

The whole problem with the crossover is just as was stated above...when confronted with certain things it will be hard to explain why Barry doesn't get Supergirl, or Supergirl doesn't call Barry, etc. 

The egg nog banter was cute. Has it even been said if Eddie existed in this new timeline?  Don't get me wrong..I am glad they are not talking about him because it was tiring last year. 

Was it explained why only speedsters can see Savitar?  The Alchemy mask has got to be one of the worst I've ever seen.

[TobinAlbers]

17 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

A wallet??  Really?  That so does not fit Iris' personality....even though it fits Barry.  Right, you are supposed to have a "creative" mind as a reporter and you get the man who travels not only the world, but to other timelines a wallet? 

Especially when she was giving him the 'You didn't get me anything?' eyebrow raise. Girl, c'mon a wallet? 

I will admit it being odd that Barry and Iris didn't get a first time together love scene. I could say it's because it's at the 8pm family hour but we did see Barry with Patty in bed and Arrow comes on at 8pm and Oliver/Felicity are all out there with the sexy times. Maybe WestAllen haven't had their first time and are keeping it chaste until the they're married? Maybe? I know, I know, highly unlikely.

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

As for the Stone, Jesus, just lock it up.  Or call the Legends and them drop it into a black hole.  Or, hey, give it to Kara on Earth-19 to store with the DEO, you know the place with alarm and people with guns and the cute blond girl that could bitchslap Savitar through several walls that also doesn't get broken into on a near constant basis for those very reasons.

Kara lives on Earth-38.  HR is the one from Earth-19.

[catrice2]

Exactly! And after saying that she shopped all day until she dropped..and a wallet is the best that you can do?

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, KirkB said:

On the subject of the suit itself, I have two issues. 1) Who decided to use colors so similar to the Reverse Flash's it ought to be giving Barry nightmares and 2) Why is his head and most of his face uncovered, which seems to defeat the purpose of a mask?

Because that's the iconic look for Wally, aka Kid Flash, in the comics.

[ruby24]

14 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

Especially when she was giving him the 'You didn't get me anything?' eyebrow raise. Girl, c'mon a wallet? 

I will admit it being odd that Barry and Iris didn't get a first time together love scene. I could say it's because it's at the 8pm family hour but we did see Barry with Patty in bed and Arrow comes on at 8pm and Oliver/Felicity are all out there with the sexy times. Maybe WestAllen haven't had their first time and are keeping it chaste until the they're married? Maybe? I know, I know, highly unlikely.

Yeah, no. There's something else going on there. And Grant Gustin is very lackluster in these love scenes still. I don't think he likes doing them.

[Lantern7]

2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

I'm not sure why tossing the box into the speed force is a better option than locking it in a room with airtight security or having the Legends drop the thing off on the moon.  I'd rather know where the thing is instead of just hoping it never reappears, especially since Savitar's little speech pretty much guarantees a future encounter.

1. Two words: Lord Zedd. Actually, the first name I thought of was "Rita Repulsa," since she's going to be in the movie. Savitar kinda looks like Zedd as it is. Would you want him on the moon, launching plot-specific menaces on Central City? Then the gang would be piloting mechanized beasts, guided by the disembodied head of (a) Harrison Wells.

2. These are the Legends we're talking about. "I had the box in my hands, and I wasn't gonna mess with it. Then Snart comes out of nowhere, calling me a pansy with matches. So I opened it. And that's how the team died. Except for Palmer. Haircut was too annoying to get killed."

[TDT]

3 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Hey, we'll be getting Plunder before the end of the season. And he will come off better than Riverdale. Is the CW that averse to Mark Waid that they'd ignore his Archie revamp?

I dont know about that show..if it were a comedy/drama similar to No Tomorrow,Crazy Ex Girlfriend,etc and somehow sticking to the format of the rebooted Archie comic id be interested in watching it

Instead of throwing the box into the Speed Force why not toss it into the sun instead..

Edited December 7, 2016 by TDT

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

-  Well, color me pleasantly shocked and surprised that Meanwhile, old wounds are reopened when Cisco faces his first Christmas without his brother Dante. didn't become more of the old "(censored for TV) Fuck you and your 'screwing the timeline that killed Dante' BS, Barry!" angst.  I was so dreading it I almost put off watching the episode for (much) later.

-  Oh, if only that (possible) future storyline of Savitar killing Iris held any real water in terms of needing to worry about it later.  Iris is the female lead, she's safe (thank God!).

-  I love [/s] how the synopsis makes things sound so much more than they are.  Case in point; Wally wants to help Barry fight Savitar and reveals that he's been training with H.R., which doesn't go over well with Barry.  So, of course, a "we'll talk about this later" after learning about Wells training him - a talk which Barry never had any part in - turns into welcoming him on to the team with his KidFlash suit, and from all of them, to boot.  What?!  My neck is sore from the bad case of whiplash that turnabout caused.

-  Great practical use of your powers and working hard to keep yourself sane, Caitlin.  I'm totally sure that nobody is going to notice the forecast and wonder how rain just mysteriously turns to snow.  I know it was only used for light-hearted 'xmas spirit' fanfare, but c'mon.

-  I hate to see the bad or shady side in everyone, but I think this 'let's be buddy-buddy' turn by Julian is an act.  He wants the sorcerer's stone back or something else.  [no, I will not call it philosopher's stone, the name of the movie "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone"!]

-  I honestly have to admit that I am almost afraid for the future of WestAllen as how its been shown on The Flash (so far) this season, because the first half of this season was as about as perfect as a couple can get [& not just on TheCW].  I'm actually concerned that it's only downhill from here, if they feel they need to create dramatic tension by messing with the WA so they have big fights or some other such contrived crap, etc.

Oh, and calling it now... this season will end with another timeline 'ooops', but it won't be Barry this time, it'll be Wally (possibly +Jesse) - and most likely by accident, but maybe pre-planned.

[Trini]

2 hours ago, Solara19 said:

I'm a relative newbie to this show - I started watching it late last year.

The glimpse given of Earth 3 with its zeppelins reminded me a lot of one of my favorite shows - Fringe. 

I was wondering if the show runners were fans of that show. The speech from the elder Flash also reminded me of Fringe. So did the ending of the episode, which I thought quite effective.

Are the zeppelins just a coincidence then?

I'd have to go look up the name(s), but at least one writer and/or producer was a writer/producer for Fringe, so the references are totally intentional.
 

2 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I mean, that's the impression I got.

I still can't believe they did that though! I mean, I can't think of another show (much less a CW show) that would flat out skip right over a first time sex scene for their MAIN COUPLE. You don't think...it's not because they're an interracial couple is it? Like they don't want anything too intimate?

I know that sounds nuts, but I'm just trying to think of a possible reason why the supposed main couple would not get any sort of sex scene, post-coital, anything. I know the show's fairly tame, but man. That's really, really pointed, imo. To just leave that out altogether. I feel completely cheated.

I can think of two shows where they pulled this Main Couple Offscreen First Time nonsense; and it did not go over well either time. It is indeed confusing.

I mean, I wasn't actually expecting them to get half naked*, but if they had made that scene with them at the apartment longer - taking off more clothes, going to the floor - that would have been decent; but no, they refuse to do more than the minimum for these two.  :(

*(Although Iris did with Eddie, and Barry with Linda)

1 hour ago, catrice2 said:

...

Was it explained why only speedsters can see Savitar? ...

I assume that only people connected to the Speed Force can see him. My speculation is that Savitar has somehow become one with the Speed Force.

[Lady Calypso]

4 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

-  I hate to see the bad or shady side in everyone, but I think this 'let's be buddy-buddy' turn by Julian is an act.  He wants the sorcerer's stone back or something else.  [no, I will not call it philosopher's stone, the name of the movie "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone"!]

Actually, you might know this already but for anyone who doesn't, the proper name is actually Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. America's the place that decided to change the name to Sorcerer's Stone to appeal to more kids, but JK Rowling's original book, as well as other copies such as in Canada, has the name as Philosopher's Stone. Scholastic Corporation didn't think that any kid would read a book that has the word Philosopher in the title, so that's why they changed it. So it all depends on where you live, of course! I grew up in Canada, so it's always been Philosopher's Stone and I got so confused every time I saw Sorcerer's Stone! 

[Lantern7]

Anytime I hear "Philosopher's Stone," I think Fullmetal Alchemist. Biggest dumbass: Barry Allen or Edward Elric?

[twoods]

I hope Julian doesn't turn out to be bad again. I like him on team Flash and I saw something there with Caitlin. I'm wondering if HR is going to be the one betraying them. I hope Wally doesn't die- I like him and Jesse even though she's on earth 2. I'm glad they finally let him be Kid Flash.

The ending made me cry. I'm sure they won't kill off Iris but it was nice to see WestAllen be couply together. I'm sure we will get some post-sex scenes now that they are living together. I don't think it's because they are interracial because like others said, there was Iris and Eddie, and the CW has plenty of interracial couples.

[ruby24]

6 minutes ago, twoods said:

 

The ending made me cry. I'm sure they won't kill off Iris but it was nice to see WestAllen be couply together. I'm sure we will get some post-sex scenes now that they are living together. I don't think it's because they are interracial because like others said, there was Iris and Eddie, and the CW has plenty of interracial couples.

Then what could it possibly be? What was it? I don't get it.

To me this was a total betrayal.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

17 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Actually, you might know this already but for anyone who doesn't, the proper name is actually Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. America's the place that decided to change the name to Sorcerer's Stone to appeal to more kids, but JK Rowling's original book, as well as other copies such as in Canada, has the name as Philosopher's Stone. Scholastic Corporation didn't think that any kid would read a book that has the word Philosopher in the title, so that's why they changed it. So it all depends on where you live, of course! I grew up in Canada, so it's always been Philosopher's Stone and I got so confused every time I saw Sorcerer's Stone! 

I understand, and did know.  I was just going for a sarcastic-y 'haha', riffing on "Draco" himself specifically mentioning the stone.

[twoods]

Just now, ruby24 said:

Then what could it possibly be? What was it? I don't get it.

To me this was a total betrayal.

Who knows- maybe Grant is uncomfortable doing those scenes? I will wait until the second half and if they don't show anything despite the two of them living together, then I will be pissed. 

[ruby24]

25 minutes ago, twoods said:

Who knows- maybe Grant is uncomfortable doing those scenes? I will wait until the second half and if they don't show anything despite the two of them living together, then I will be pissed. 

He probably is, but he can suck it up for ONE scene. I don't even care about them living together later, I think it was a complete betrayal to not make a big deal out of their first time. That's all I was expecting. It's even worse that it apparently happened randomly offscreen, not even alluded to at any point on the show. Come on, that is bullshit for a show's main couple. No other show would do that.

I don't think this is too much to ask. Even a show like Agents of Shield made a big deal out of Fitz and Simmons having sex for the first time (and they're supporting characters). This is a jip.

Edited December 7, 2016 by ruby24

[Trini]

It's a shame we always have to wait after the crossover pause for the season story arcs to really go forward.

Nope. Still not liking HR. Still think he's useless dead weight. Savitar called him 'Fake Wells' -- haaaaaa!

So hopefully we're done with 'Wally wants to be a Flash, everyone says "no"' ? Because that was already annoyingly one note. Hopefully, they can find something for him to do; because I do like him.

When they said Dante was going to be in this episode, I thought it would be a flashback. Savitar 'Dante' was spooky! I did like that Cisco was fighting it at first.

Speaking of spooky: Savitar prophecies! And the time jump! Barry already told Jay, but anyone want to takes bets on how long until the rest of Team Flash (or maybe just Iris) finds out about Iris' death?

Savitar didn't say "die", but if they did want to kill off anyone, I think HR or Julian are the likeliest. I know, the new people, but I don't think they'd actually kill off any of the other regulars. At worst, I see one or two characters going off to another universe by the end of the season.

But then what would be "a fate worse than death"? Getting trapped in the Speed Force is a thing in the comics, right? It would have to be either Barry, Iris, or Wally for maximum effect, I think.

Glad for Jay Garrick in this one; I love the mentor/father figure dynamic he has with Barry. One day he's going to have to tell how he's able to find Barry when he time travels.

I assume they get Mark Hamill to cameo by promising him that he can do whatever wacky voice he wants.  :)
Wacky outfits are a bonus.

Man, in the same episode showing Iris' death, they had some really cute Barry/Iris moments! THe sitting on the lap! Barry saying moving in together wasn't a big step for him -- aww! (however, full cuteness not achieved because they already have lived together.) I think that apartment used to be the Jitters set.

Joe and Cecile were cute, too! Alcoholic grandmothers, heee!
 

11 minutes ago, twoods said:

Who knows- maybe Grant is uncomfortable doing those scenes? I will wait until the second half and if they don't show anything despite the two of them living together, then I will be pissed. 

Answering in the Relationships thread.

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don't know why they refuse to show Barry and Iris having sex, or being intimate. It can't be because they're interracial, because they showed Iris in bed wit Eddie in the first season.

And I forgot to mention how Earth 3's Trickster looked like some freaky version of the Joker and Tim Curry!?

I get that feeling that the show runners see Barry and Iris's love story to be too...I want to say PG but I mean more like Disney, a wondrous magical tale where it's all about the romance and not the physical side.  So no focusing on the first time sex scene.  That's not supposed to be the important part.  Either that or they just kind of forgot to do it and ran out of time to make it fit.  Oops.   

I loved Mark Hamil showing up like that.  Third time so now it's tradition.  They better start lining him up for next year as well.  I really  liked Jay in this one as well.  I'm enjoying him so much more than Henry.  He gets to do stuff AND have the emotional chit chats.  

I officially am an HR fan.  Loved what he a was doing in the episode.  Adored him at the party.  

Wally only bugged me a little, when he right away let the cat out of the bag.  Don't tell him any secrets.  

Cisco had me rolling my eyes.  The mind control stuff only happens once you open the box.  He willingly and stupidly opened the box.  Sigh.  But fine, still, tell me, why couldn't one of the THREE speedsters zip in and take the box away from him?  Hmm?  Anyone? 

Julian is great and points to Flash for not making him just another bad guy.  And I'm impressed by TF as an actor.  He handled a lot of exposition really well and people don't get enough credit for making something that could be really boring actually really interesting. 

There is something weird about Joe's date's daughter.  Why do they keep bringing her up?  

Quote

I've never been passionately for or against WestAllen as I can accept a noncanon coupling if the chemistry is right (see Olicity) but I've also always believed in Barry's deep aching love for Iris;  I've been looking for a moment of them as a couple where I could start believing in them. Tonight when he brought her to that loft and they celebrating their new beginning might've been that moment.

It was all very sweet but I really was too distracted by the fact that they've turned the Loft apartment on Arrow into Barry and Iris's love nest. (Where I'm sure there will be post sex canoodling in the future) And they did more than just dress the set up a little.  The bones stayed the same, but they changed enough that I don't expect we'll see it on Arrow again.  So the crossover appearance was probably it's swan song.  I think the only person that has an apartment now on Arrow is Quentin Lance and it's tiny.  Arrow is seriously lacking sets these days.  

Edited December 7, 2016 by BkWurm1

[ruby24]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I get that feeling that the show runners see Barry and Iris's love story to be too...I want to say PG but I mean more like Disney, a wondrous magical tale where it's all about the romance and not the physical side.  So no focusing on the first time sex scene.  That's not supposed to be the important part.  Either that or they just kind of forgot to do it and ran out of time to make it fit.  Oops.   

Since when can that not be romantic though? How many shows have we seen that have overly romanticized the hell out of first time sex scenes? I can't believe they didn't get one.

I'm very suspicious of this. I can see the "purity" argument ringing true in the writers room, but would they do this to a white couple? I don't think so. At all. Arrow's big Oliver/Felicity scene speaks to that.

Edited December 7, 2016 by ruby24