S04.E12: The Vision

[formerlyfreedom]

The Kattegat locals chide Ragnar that the gods have deserted him as he struggles to crew his voyage to Wessex. It's Bjorn who has charisma now as he prepares to fulfill his long-held dream to explore the Mediterranean in a sleek new boat built for him by Floki. By contrast, Ragnar must accept weathered boats and a crew he has bribed but when Aslaug foresees that the fleet will be lost in a vicious storm her warnings go un-heeded by Ragnar and her precious son, Ivar.

 

[BitterApple]

Poor Ragnar. All the cool kids want to ride with Bjorn now.

Edited December 2, 2016 by BitterApple

[attica]

So, wait: Paul Bettany shows up?

[Primetimer]

He's probably going to kill someone for no good reason, but did you see him on those crutches?

View the full article

[benteen]

That was another great episode.  I'm glad we got another episode focusing totally on the Vikings.

The scene with Ragnar's kids and Aslaug in the beginning was great.  Intense dynamics.  Love the dynamics between Ragnar and Ivar once again.

That guy had every right to be upset with Ragnar but still, I wanted Ragnar not knock him the hell out. 

I do love the various feasts and reunion scenes.  The show always does that so well.

Aslaug, you do NOT want to piss of Lagertha.  Curious to see how this all turns out.

[Babalooie]

Loved seeing more of the sons' personalities.  We might as well get used to them because they're here for the long haul.  I agree about Ragnar and Ivar.  Fun combination, those two.  Now we know Ivar's phobia.  He needs to remain a landlubber.

[rozen]

Oh, poor little Ivar. He paid all that gold for the Viking armor and weapons kit of his dreams and it's got his balance all screwed up on those crutches. Also, were those metal crutches? Geez, that boy must have hands made out of elephant hide. The gloating little rat brother can die, his slave lover is literally in fear of her life and all he wants to do is crow over Ivar not being able to get it up. None of those boys love you, girl. Shoulda picked up a shield, jumped on the ship w/ Wannabe King of Norway, and hoped for the best.

Handing out all that gold and Ragnar could only pull together three boats to raid all of England? And he had to watch Bjorn sail off with his boats and his mates, and his friends. He should have just let Rollo kill him 8 years ago, this shit is just embarrassing. I wonder if we'll see Rollo now that he's old and Frenchified. Be interesting to see if there's any of Viking Beserker Rollo still left in him.

Ragnar continues sucker punching people right in the feels on his AA-esque apology tour. Aslaug's actress was *great* in that scene, going from pure revulsion of having his dirty hand on her face to confusion, to validation, to suspicion and finally just plain resignation. TBH, that is something I've never given Aslaug credit for, all her kids are momma's boys and yet they still love Ragnar (sort of) despite all the shit he's done to her. They certainly don't dislike Ragnar *because* of anything he's done to her, which is a feat. 

Oh, yea, I had almost forgotten Lagertha is someone who will carry a vengeance to the ends of the earth. But then again, Aslaug seems to be a precog so we'll see who comes out on top. 

What was going on with Aslaug at the end? It almost seemed like she was having a miscarriage, but that doesn't make any sense?

Edited December 8, 2016 by rozen

[benteen]

That Aslaug scene with Ragnar was amazing.

I'm pro-Lagertha of course but I found her line that she could never forget what Aslaug has done to Kattegat puzzling.  Aslaug turned it into a thriving market town.  She's done pretty good in that area!

I'd like to think that Lagertha's anger also comes from her granddaughter dying under Aslaug's watch.  But little Siggy seems to be completely forgotten by everyone.  Accept maybe the Jesse Plemmons...I mean Sigurd.  Seriously, he looks so much like Jesse Plemmons it's distracting.  If he remembers what happened to his cousin, then he has every right to be mad at Aslaug and Ivar told him "who cares?" at the time.

Edited December 8, 2016 by benteen

[alvajon]

8 minutes ago, benteen said:

 

I'd like to think that Lagertha's anger also comes from her granddaughter dying under Aslaug's watch.  But little Siggy seems to be completely forgotten by everyone.  Accept maybe the Jesse Plemmons...I mean Sigurd.  Seriously, he looks so much like Jesse Plemmons it's distracting.  If he remembers what happened to his cousin, then he has every right to be mad at Aslaug and Ivar told him "who cares?" at the time.

When I first saw the adult Sigurd, I immediately thought of Erlender, Torvi’s former. They look a lot alike as well. 

[FlowerofCarnage]

 Kattegat has grown very prosperous over the last 7 years so what exactly is Lagertha's beef with how Aslaug is running things? ETA: seems like I forgot about little Siggy just like everyone else. I can see Lagertha placing her trust in Aslaug and feeling betrayed that she neglected Siggy. 

Viking Jan Brady aka Sigurd...what a little shit! lol He's  mad at Ivar for taking his,Ubbe and Hvitserk's girl but then promptly puts said girl's life in danger by revealing something she told him in cofidence. Obviously, you don't love her that much.

Edited December 8, 2016 by FlowerofCarnage

[LittleIggy]

Glad to see Torvi with Bjorn and their kids. Lagertha, as usual, looked amazing. She has aged better than Asslog (intentional). I want to see Lagertha kick her butt. BTW, looking forward to the Real Vikings epic on Viking Women.

Ragnar's mainly geriatric crew made me laugh.

King Harold's brother's greasy long bangs hanging in his face was just plain nasty!

Ecbert next week! :-)

[Knuckles]

Ivar is giving me major creeps...the actor is killing it. And the scenes with Ivar and Ragnar are wonderful and raw. I am liking Ragnar, as I always have, but now I like his determination, and his willingness to start at the bottom again. he needs to avenge the Wessex massacre in order to appease the gods. 

Aslaug...I had forgotten how much I despise you...even though I had forgotten your cruelty to little Siggy. I find your smugness and your loathsome son Ivar too much to bear. I kept hoping that Lagertha would whack you this episode...but I will keep hope alive. After all, she kept her promise to Kalf...even when it seemed unlikely. 

Always glad this show is  back...but the Odd Brothers reappearance does not bode well. I always figured they wanted to take out Ragnar...maybe they are after Bjorn this time. And Rollo...can't wait to see him again...is he overweight and bearded too. Is Gisla overweight and bearded? Is Ecbert still as crafty and evil as ever? Good times. Glad to have you all back.

[green]

Anyone notice that scene at the feast where Bjorn just kind of stood there watching everyone quietly getting a feeling for everything going on.  Like father, like son.

Speaking of dear old dad it was kind of funny watching Ragnar suddenly becoming a daddy again with Ivar this time.  What a weird combo those two are and yet you can feel the chemistry.

I decided Astrid isn't really working for me.  She looks too modern with her hair and clothing and make-up like she escaped from a really bad road company tour of Peter Pan or something.  She and the Chinese woman in the first half of the season smack of Season Fouritis wherein production starts throwing odd stuff into the mix just to do something different.

Next week Ecbert!  And finally the big throw-down between Lagertha and Aslaug.

Edited December 8, 2016 by green

[thuganomics85]

Watching Ragnar give away all of his past loot just to get a bunch of men (who weren't even good enough to sail with Bjorn and the rest), has got to be one of the most saddest and pathetic things on this show.  Ragnar really has become a pale shell of himself now.  How quickly the mighty can fall!  But I'm glad it's happening and Ivor is with him.  Those two together are really interesting.  There is a lot of ways where they are so different, and Ivor understandably still has issues with him, but I there still seems to be a bond between them that neither can shake.  Both Travis Fimmel and the actor playing Ivar are great together.

Fun seeing Harald and Halfdan again.  Naturally, Floki went all crazy getting to see his buddies again.  Bjorn was interesting in all of those scenes. Agree that he seems to be taking a page from his father's book, by being more quiet and just observing everyone else.  He's becoming quite the leader himself.

Oh, boy.  Lagertha is gunning for Aslaug.  That is going to be bad.... for someone.  I'm totally Team Lagertha, but I really don't want to underestimate Aslaug.

Still haven't gotten all the other son's names yet, but I like that I can get a sense of their personalities now.  One of them is clearly the more level-headed of the group, while another (the youngest, I think), is more of a hothead and likes to go out of his way to needle Ivor.  But I get the sense that a lot of it is because the sons do think Aslaug favors Ivor over the rest of them.  Ah, families!

There was a lot of great scenic shots in this one.  Ireland really is a beautiful place and this show is one of the best at taking advantage of it.

Looking forward to next week, where it seems some of the rest of the regulars will be making their grand returns.  Can't wait to see how they have changed during the time jump.

[ghoulina]

I know a lot of people love Ragnar, and I do too. But I have to say, I am glad to see him suffering some humiliation back in Kattegat. He left his people. He left his sons. He was a self indulgent asshole and it did give me a bit of glee to see how he is regarded right now. He is really going to have to FIGHT to get his reputation back. Good. 

Seeing him give away all his treasure was at once sad AND awesome - because it's not the treasure he cares about, but the way he got it. He'll give it all up and start from scratch, just to experience the glory of raiding again. I'm curious how it will go for him, though, considering his boats are filled with old and starving men. 

I do love his relationship with Ivar, though. Not only does he not coddle the boy, but he pushes him. Telling him to "hurry up". Bah! It's great because Ivar gives as good as he gets. 

The relationship with Ivar and his brothers is really complicated, and interesting. There is concern and pity at times, but there's also a lot of bitterness and resentment. Aslaug has clearly always favored him. And I liked seeing Ubbe openly admit that Ivar terrified him. Me too, Ubbe, me too! Sigurd clearly can't wait to use what he knows about Ivar against him, which is going to be a BIG BIG mistake. 

LOVED Lagertha letting Aslaug know that she is NOT over the past and she's coming for her. Get it, girl. I literally cannot wait. 

I really enjoyed Ragnar's scene with Aslaug because it was so not what I expected and it left me questioning Ragnar's true motives. Both actors were amazing. 

Bjorn and Torvi are just perfect together. I loved their goodbye. She is a good woman. I'm excited about his quest, way more so than Ragnar's. It will be interesting to see what becomes of his attempts to reach out to Rollo.

21 hours ago, green said:

I decided Astrid isn't really working for me.  She looks too modern with her hair and clothing and make-up like she escaped from a really bad road company tour of Peter Pan or something.  She and the Chinese woman in the first half of the season smack of Season Fouritis wherein production starts throwing odd stuff into the mix just to do something different.

I totally agree. I hate both of these additions, just smacks of trying too hard. 

[Straycat80]

This was a powerful episode. I was literally holding my breathe during the last scene. I didn't understand the shots of Aslaug and the blood though. 

[attica]

10 hours ago, FlowerofCarnage said:

Kattegat has grown very prosperous over the last 7 years so what exactly is Lagertha's beef with how Aslaug is running things?

My impression was that Lagertha's comment wasn't about the village, but about Aslaug's insobriety, which is unbecoming behavior for a ruler. But I'm willing be persuaded otherwise.

[BitterApple]

Idk, I thought this was a decent episode, but I feel like the show is starting to lose its' edge. Astrid brings nothing to the table and I agree that the addition of her character feels very Cousin Oliver-ish. 

I do like the dynamics between Ivar and Ragnar, although I'm a little confused as to how three boats of elderly men are going to wreak havoc on Wessex. I'm starting to think the writers are deliberately making Ragnar such a pitiable character so that when he finally dies the audience is glad to see him put out of his misery.

Lagertha seeking revenge on Aslaug after nearly twenty years seems like an exceptionally long grudge to hold, but I'm curious to see how it plays out.

Next week, yay! Rollo and Ecbert are back.

[Ohwell]

9 hours ago, green said:

Anyone notice that scene at the feast where Bjorn just kind of stood there watching everyone quietly getting a feeling for everything going on.  Like father, like son.

I also noticed him giving Astrid a side glance when they were introduced, and I couldn't tell if it was because he just found her intriguing, or if he was suspicious.  I suspect it was the latter. 

I can understand Lagertha taking revenge on Aslaug because she did take her husband and ruin her family.  However, I also think it's because she's jealous that Aslaug is ruling over a successful community.  In any event, I want Lagertha to take her down.

When Ivar was creepy crawling like a giant lizard towards the sleeping servant girl, I thought for sure he was going to slit her throat.

I love the Viking feasts.

Can't wait until next week!

45 minutes ago, attica said:

My impression was that Lagertha's comment wasn't about the village, but about Aslaug's insobriety, which is unbecoming behavior for a ruler. But I'm willing be persuaded otherwise.

Actually, now that you mention it, I think that's Lagertha's problem with Aslaug, rather than jealousy. 

[Babalooie]

Cool photo of the breakout star of this half of the season.  Looks like here he's in an army other than Ragnar's rag-tag troop.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5405979/mediaviewer/rm3421838592

Edited December 8, 2016 by Babalooie

[benteen]

Quote

I know a lot of people love Ragnar, and I do too. But I have to say, I am glad to see him suffering some humiliation back in Kattegat. He left his people. He left his sons. He was a self indulgent asshole and it did give me a bit of glee to see how he is regarded right now. He is really going to have to FIGHT to get his reputation back. Good. 

Ragnar is definitely getting what he deserved.  He's a man who loves his children but ultimately, his actions are about The Greatness of Ragnar Lothbrok.  He wants to return to England for his own issues and nothing else.  But yeah, I like the character so much that it's hard to me to root for him to be brought so low even though he is very deserving of it.

[LittleIggy]

I hope Rollo has kept himself in shape so he can take his shirt off on the raids! ;-)

My hairstylist told me, when I mentioned Vikings, that they had a customer come in and ask them to give him the hairstyle Bjorn is wearing now - shaved all around, long on the top. He showed them a pic of Ragnar when he sported that do. The guy had hair extensions put in so he could have the long braid. Wish I could have seen that!

[ghoulina]

4 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I'm starting to think the writers are deliberately making Ragnar such a pitiable character so that when he finally dies the audience is glad to see him put out of his misery.

I already felt this way last year. I'm ready for the adventures of Bjorn! 

 

1 hour ago, LittleIggy said:

I hope Rollo has kept himself in shape so he can take his shirt off on the raids! ;-)

I hope he grew his hair back out. 

[Ohwell]

I felt so bad for Ragnar trying to get the band back together and failing miserably until he offered up the spoils of his raids. The look on his face is like he knows he's a pitiful replica of his former self, yet he soldiers on.  

Fimmel really is an underrated actor.

[mccartygirl]

I am so glad this show is back. I forgot how much I disliked Asslog. 

Can someone tell me why the 2 other boys didn't go with Bjorn?

[ghoulina]

6 minutes ago, mccartygirl said:

Can someone tell me why the 2 other boys didn't go with Bjorn?

I believe they said they needed to stay back and look after their mother. 

[leisawoo]

Yeah, they do cuz Lagertha is coming for her!!! So excited.  I must have complete silence in my home for this, lol! I want to relish every second. Blood eagle is too good for  Asslog. Please do something worse to her Lagertha! Poor little Siggy baby. I also better see bjorn mad as hell about it at some point. I get it, though, that it HAS been years since they got back. 

Edited December 8, 2016 by leisawoo

[green]

15 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Still haven't gotten all the other son's names yet, but I like that I can get a sense of their personalities now.  One of them is clearly the more level-headed of the group, while another (the youngest, I think), is more of a hothead and likes to go out of his way to needle Ivor.  But I get the sense that a lot of it is because the sons do think Aslaug favors Ivor over the rest of them.  Ah, families!

There was a lot of great scenic shots in this one.  Ireland really is a beautiful place and this show is one of the best at taking advantage of it.

Looking forward to next week, where it seems some of the rest of the regulars will be making their grand returns.  Can't wait to see how they have changed during the time jump.

"Level-headed" is the oldest of Aslaug's brood, Ubbe. 

The youngest is actually Ivar.  The next youngest is Sigurd the Snake-Eye who is not just snake-eyed but apparently in this show the snake in his blabbing to his brothers thus putting the servant girl he pretends to love in mortal danger.  Also he seems to really be the most jealous of the bunch of Ivar in general.  Maybe the writer's imagined backstory is that is because he is closest to Ivar's age and felt as a youngster the sudden love and attention taken off of him and shifted onto Ivar by his mother.

[Ohwell]

Assuming Ivar makes it back to Kattegat, Sigurd is toast. 

[Straycat80]

Wouldn't Bjorn be upset with Aslaug for little Siggy's death? She was his daughter.  He doesn't appear to be.

Aslaug  gave Ivar, when he was little, to  Floki to teach him to be a Viking. He didn't do a very good job. You'd think he would have been taken sailing since that is a big part of Viking life. Ivar acted like this was his first ever in a ship. 

[wlk68]

29 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

Wouldn't Bjorn be upset with Aslaug for little Siggy's death? She was his daughter.  He doesn't appear to be.

Aslaug  gave Ivar, when he was little, to  Floki to teach him to be a Viking. He didn't do a very good job. You'd think he would have been taken sailing since that is a big part of Viking life. Ivar acted like this was his first ever in a ship. 

His mom coddled him terribly so it may very well be his first time. And even if it's not, I doubt he voyaged out into open sea but rather stayed in the fjord because again, coddling.

I quite like how Ragnar doesn't treat him like an invalid. And I think Ivar finds it refreshing as well after being smothered by his mother all his life.

[Haleth]

I was surprised we didn't see a shot of the slave girl with her throat or belly cut open. Surely Ivar didn't let her go this time. 

It doesn't really make sense that Ubbe and Sigurd would say "no thanks" to two raiding voyages so they could hang out in the village with mom.  It doesn't speak well for their bravery, especially since their crippled brother did go.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Haleth

[rozen]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

I was surprised we didn't see a shot of the slave girl with her throat or belly cut open. Surely Ivar didn't let her go this time. 

It doesn't really make sense that Ubbe and Sigurd would say "no thanks" to two raiding voyages so they could hang out in the village with mom.  It doesn't speak well for their bravery, especially since their crippled brother did go.

Kattegut was, frankly, a shithole the first time Ragnar went all out raiding and he ended up having the whole town snatched out from under him. Even with Lagertha's help, he had ended sacrificing at least one warrior per square meter of the place to get it back. Now, Kattegut is rich is hell, no way there aren't hal fa dozen earls and wannabe kings sniffing around at all times. Having some of your best soldiers stay home to protect the roost is just smart business.

I'm sure Harald has left behind a bunch of warriors to start shit the minute he and Bjorn have sailed out of view. And everyone else would be happy to pile on just to get a shot of looting a sliver of Kattegut's riches. Which is not helped by Ragnar literally giving out the entire treasury of France as if it were lollipops. That alone could fire all the calamities that Ragnar allegedly brings to pass.

[TaurusRose]

I don't like Aslaug and think she's really unattractive, but the scene between her and Ragnar was golden.  Kudos to both actors.  I agree that Astrid is off-putting and seems too modern and out of place for Vikings.  I liked Ivar telling his mother that he didn't want to be pitied and wanted to spend one day as a man with his father.  I was also impressed by Ivar's determination to board the ship on his own.  Kudos to the actor because I know that was harder than it looked.  I'm really not liking Sigurd.  He's a snake like his mother.  And I'm wondering if there is going to be a physical altercation between him and Ivar somewhere down the line.  I felt sorry for Ragnar in all situations.  Whereas the old Ragnar would have done some serious damage to the villager who spit on him, I couldn't help but feel pity (and sadness) when he said, "Thank you for your time" and shuffled off after the abuse.  Again, I didn't miss England or Paris; although, it will be interesting to see what happens when Bjorn approaches Rollo for safe passage.  I hope we get a little bit of fireworks because I still can't stand Rollo.  I'm amazed the slave girl didn't end up dead and was as confused as others were as to what was going on with Aslaug in the last scene.  One thing Aslaug should never do though is cover her face with blood (not a good look) and it gives me a happy knowing that Lagertha still doesn't like her.     

[Ravenya003]

I'm typing this before reading the other replies, so apologies if I repeat anything:

Most viewers hate Aslaug, and I can certainly understand why - though I have a weird compulsion to defend the female characters that fandom hates, and I think Aslaug gets a raw deal sometimes. It's disappointing that the writer has decided to ignite a rivalry between Lagertha/Aslaug when it was so refreshing that it was avoided in all the preceding seasons. Lagertha has a right to be pissed at Aslaug, but she was proud and big enough to rise above vengeance - that's part of the reason we love her! Now suddenly she's come back for revenge? And her words: "look at what you've done [to Kattegut]" didn't make any sense. Under Aslaug's rule it became a flourishing Viking metropolis! 

But hopefully Hirst hasn't completely thrown her under the bus: it was nice to see the return of her prophetic powers (we haven't seen them in a while) and her scene with Ragnar was beautiful, especially when he gave her credit for not turning their sons against him. 

Poor Ragnar is pretty pathetic these days; it's enough to make me want to revisit the glory days of the second season. It's a great dramatic choice though: if a Viking doesn't die in glorious battle, he's doomed to fade and wither - and it's been a downhill slide since Athelstan's death. 

Ivar is turning out to be a more interesting character that I thought. I felt for sure the slave girl would die this episode, but he spared her, and later he tells his mother he loves her despite her smothering nature. Looking forward to how he fares in England. 

The goodbye between Lagertha and Bjorn was beautiful, especially that little pat. And Torvi - damn girl, looking good in turquoise. I've grown surprisingly fond of Bjorn/Torvi as a couple: they were sort of thrown together randomly, yet they've built a happy life together. I suppose that means Porunn will be making a reappearance in the near future. 

Those Viking brothers are back - urgh, I hate those two. Here's hoping a gruesome death is on the cards. 

It's been nice to get reintroduced to the Vikings, but I'm ready to see what's been going on in Paris and England.

[cathy7304]

Yay, next week Rollo and that magnificent bastard Ecbert !

[Captanne]

They really outdid themselves with this episode.  In every way.  I don't have a single complaint or sideways compliment.  Just brilliant over the entire 45 minutes.  Well done!

[LennieBriscoe]

"Vikings," I just can't QUIT you! Violence, betrayals, a color scheme best called "brown," bring it on!

Don't care for extra-long beards, though. Or the literally serpentine Ivar. Or the really bad eyeliner on Aslaug. Heh.

Always love the scenes of Ecbert and England, though! So next episode.....

[HunterHunted]

I'm one of those viewers who loves Lagertha, but can't stand Aslaug. My problem with Aslaug is that she's smug and condescending. She doesn't seem to be interested in the lives and well being of her citizens. I really did like her during the early parts of her relationship with Ragnar. She used to have a little bit of a sense of humor back then. Now, she seems so cold and bitter. She actually reminds me of Katelyn Stark from Game of Thrones.

Aslaug has done a great job of not raising the boys to hate Ragnar. She and Bjorn have done a fantastic job of transforming Kattegut into a thriving city.

I've sort of worried for a while about whether this show could handle the loss of Ragnar. I worry less now that I've seen what a complex manipulative psychopath Ivar is. His actor is great.

16 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I felt so bad for Ragnar trying to get the band back together and failing miserably until he offered up the spoils of his raids. The look on his face is like he knows he's a pitiful replica of his former self, yet he soldiers on.  

Fimmel really is an underrated actor.

Ragnar is a victim of his own success. Had his first raids not been so scary and bloody, the English and French wouldn't have reacted they way they did and all of the other Scandinavian kings, earls, and other chieftains be so quick to come to Kattegut. He's become a king who is known and feared by a lot of people England and the European continent. Ragnar's initial dreams were to raid and farm. I get the sense that Ragnar is trying to get back to the man he used to be.

[Captanne]

Ragnar is an aging Viking king.  He is who he is but the decline isn't that far off of Gabriel Byrne's.

I absolutely agree that the show has cast an amazing guy as Ivar.  

I never liked the character of Auslag and never liked the actress.  What they did in this episode was to make her absolutely two dimensional for me (rather like Floki has been forever).  On the other hand, the episode did everything brilliantly and her two dimensions are more than enough to keep me occupied -- the visuals are amazing.

[BitterApple]

4 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

. Now, she seems so cold and bitter. She actually reminds me of Katelyn Stark from Game of Thrones.

 

I always thought Katelyn was a miserable hag. I never understood why GoT fans had such reverence for her. Aslaug is definitely her boozy and bitter equivalent. With that said, I don't really understand what Lagertha is gunning for next week. She wants to reclaim the home she left twenty years ago? The city has changed and grown, are the residents really still that attached to her? 

[ghoulina]

13 hours ago, Ravenya003 said:

And her words: "look at what you've done [to Kattegut]" didn't make any sense. Under Aslaug's rule it became a flourishing Viking metropolis! 

It seems no one understood what Lagertha's point was. I certainly didn't get the ire. I asked my husband about it last night when we went to bed. He said something about her being upset that Aslaug was intoxicated and engaging in trances so publicly? I don't know, I didn't really see the sense in that either. Maybe she felt Aslaug has made the relationship with the gods a mockery or something? He was really tired and dozed off while we were talking, so I'll try to get more out of him tonight. 

 

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I always thought Katelyn was a miserable hag. I never understood why GoT fans had such reverence for her.

Is this a show perception? I've only seen a few episodes, but I've read all available books and I've never seen Kat that way. 

[TaurusRose]

4 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I always thought Katelyn was a miserable hag. I never understood why GoT fans had such reverence for her. Aslaug is definitely her boozy and bitter equivalent. 

Meet one GoT fan who despised Catelyn from the moment her pinched, hateful face appeared.  The comparison to Aslaug is a fair one I think.

Edited December 9, 2016 by taurusrose

[mccartygirl]

4 hours ago, taurusrose said:

Meet one GoT fan who despised Catelyn from the moment her pinched, hateful face appeared.  The comparison to Aslaug is a fair one I think.

Fan number 2 who hated Catelyn!!! She was evil and if it wasn't for her Rob would be alive!!

[whoknowswho]

Well, another season of Vikings has landed. My husband--this is the ONLY other TV show he'll watch next to Lucifer, and he loves it--we'll do a whole marathon of Vikings, and then another.

He came out half way through me watching the first episode late at night, and I said "This may be the year I quit Vikings". I love Lagertha,  but I was pissed at Lagertha's new paramour--not so much that she's lesbian--but I don't like Astrid with her boy cut hair and tunic and kohl eye shadow--she is far too modern, too butch. I can't see homosexuality, especially among women, as being ok in Viking society--it wasn't ok in any other society at that time, they'd have been hung, drawn and quartered for less in England or France, or burnt as witches. I also, and this is picky--didn't like them wrestling barefoot because while I know the actress who plays Lagertha is a Martial Artist--I really can't see 900 something AD women wrestling barefooted, somewhere in Scandanavia. Maybe they did, but it looked wrong to me. Too modern, again.  

I'm sad for Ragnar, now a broken man who is a pariah. I think they are setting us up for his death, perhaps as history has always remembered him as King Aelle's victim. I won't say more so as not to spoil what history has told us, because spoiler tags, well I learned last year and forgot them this year...he just makes me sad--he was so beautiful and ferocious, and now he meekly says "thank you for your time" instead of smiting whoever wronged him.  My favorite part about last week was Floki and Ragnar, becoming bros again.  I've always loved that little deranged elf, though he's grown and matured and suffered greatly, he still loves Ragnar--his only friend, Ragnar's only friend. 

Always hated Aslaug--and always will, so if Lagertha gets all ninja on her, I won't be one bit sad, except sad it's taken so long.  She's cold and calculating and very much like a cat.  She has proven to be cunning, cruel, and only doting on Ivar. I'm not invested in any of the kids--except weirdly, Ivar--I'm fascinated by him--by his absolute psychopathy. He nails it.  I quite like Ubbe, who looks so much like Will Wheaton we snicker when we see him, pay not much attention to Hvitserk, and Sigurd just looks too much like Torvi's ex/dead husband whose name escapes me. They must be related, they are very much alike. But Ivar is the breakout star for me this year, he will be great if he can just manage to keep from drowning.  His vengeance--will be terrible when or if it comes. 

Bjorn--not too invested in him either, he is a decent character and well played, but- if this season kills off my favorite characters, I am not sure what I'll do. 

My heart does sing at the thought of seeing Rollo again, and that magnificent scoundrel in Wessex. Looking forward to that, at least.

Hopefully I'll find some redemption with some blood and guts--these episodes have been sloggy when you're used to the constant battles and murder and mayhem that was integral to the previous years.  I miss the year of Lord Harrolson and Lagertha and Ragnar on the farm. They've come so far from where they started. 

[Captanne]

I'm also baffled by Lagertha's comment to Auslaug (I can't spell her name) about "look what you've done to Kattegat."  If she's complaining about large population and merchantry -- okay, I guess?  I mean - when did we see her all "I just want to have babies and a farm?"  That was Ragnar -- except his wanderlust and powerlust and, well, lust got in his own way. 

If she's complaining about the pagan ritual?  First of all -- it was cool as hell and a great spectacle.  All about L.'s very son and wishing him luck -- so what's not to like?  

If she is suddenly Christian and is complaining about the Pagan shit, well, darling, only a season or two ago you were having a great time dropping acid in Upsalla and killing your own goats.  Also, that's a big IF because I don't recall seeing HER baptized (the way we did Ragnar.)*  

It makes me think something got left on the cutting room floor.  There must have been one scene (or one upcoming?) that will explain that --- because it's very important.  We need a reason why Kattegat is the reason Lagertha is suddenly going after Auslaug after all these years she's been Queen and raised four of Ragnar's children to adulthood.
 

*Awwwwwwwww.  I miss Athelstan.

(Eep.  That image moves?  If it's not cool, just let me know and I'll delete it.)

Edited December 10, 2016 by Captanne

[MaggieG]

Count me in as being confused about the "look what you have done to Kattegat" comment. Also, what the heck was going on with Aslaug at the end? It looked to me like she was having a miscarriage but do we know if she is having sex with anyone? Odd. 

[green]

18 hours ago, whoknowswho said:

...   I was pissed at Lagertha's new paramour--not so much that she's lesbian--but I don't like Astrid with her boy cut hair and tunic and kohl eye shadow--she is far too modern, too butch. I can't see homosexuality, especially among women, as being ok in Viking society--it wasn't ok in any other society at that time, they'd have been hung, drawn and quartered for less in England or France, or burnt as witches. I also, and this is picky--didn't like them wrestling barefoot because while I know the actress who plays Lagertha is a Martial Artist--I really can't see 900 something AD women wrestling barefooted, somewhere in Scandanavia. Maybe they did, but it looked wrong to me. Too modern, again.

I agree way to modern and totally out of place.  She and the Chiness woman the first half of this season were major missteps I feel like I said up thread.

But I don't see any persecutions going on in Viking society regards homosexuals.  If you have a link to a history of the Vikings that mentions that I'd be interested to read it.  Otherwise why would they be?  Pagan societies were usual fine with it.

And I don't know if there was any major persecutions of the death making kind in England and France back then either.  Sure there was a thing in one verse in the Bible about it but there was even more stuff against eating pork which they all ate.  The Catholic Church was the only church in western Europe then and only the educated class, mainly the priests and monks, could read Latin which was what the Bible only was in.  Most commoners would have no idea about any verse about anything unless the priest read it at a service or the Pope issued an edict. 

Most people knew that there were people who were gay but as long as they didn't hold Gay Pride parades people just looked the other way.  Worst case, some might get shunned or become outcasts but not drawn and quartered I should think.  Not the best fates but not some mass witch burning equivalent either.  More a don't ask, don't tell environment unless some ruler of some fiefdom or some individual bishop got on their high horse about the issue.

It wasn't until the Protestant Reformation when anyone leaving the Catholic Church could make up any old church they wanted for themselves that you got into a lot of weird niche stuff as small sects could get riled up about this and that thing.  Also at that time because of same the Bible started to be translated into the common every day languages for the first time on any real large scale.  So there may have been some increase in public prejudice starting around about that time I guess.  But never a death sentence.

Again I could be wrong.  Maybe there were small flare-ups of prejudice that could result in death but no generalized history shows any massive death sentences for homosexuality until Hitler and the Nazis that I know of.  And they didn't like Christianity much either. 

Again maybe I'm wrong.  I'm no expert of the history of gay people.  I just know it wasn't a big deal in most pagan cultures like Greece and Rome so I'd assume the same for the pagan Vikings.  I figure that is the whole point Hirst is making by having a token gay character.  "Look, Vikings, they are really the progressives of the age."

Edited December 11, 2016 by green

[green]

I think this should be a separate post since it is about a separate thing.  About Lagertha's comment about what Aslaug did to Kattegat.  Here is some of my take.

Remember when Ragnar (and Lagertha when Ragnar was out raiding) ruled in person?  The longhouse was always open for people to hang out it.  Eat, drink, work, have animals sheltered there, hang out with friends.  Not just for feasts.  All the time.

Look at it now.  Except for a feast like in the last episode we always see it totally empty now except for the "royal family".  The long tables have been replaced by a very upscale looking table with chairs with high backs to them numbering enough for said "royals" to sit around but not anyone else.  There it sits alone in the middle of a big, open space of nothing.  I noticed that camera shot immediately in that episode (last week's or the finale of the first half probably, forget which) and thought just that.  "Look what Aslaug has done to Kattegat."

What I think Lagertha was getting at was back in the day the Kattegat ruler was a first among equals.  Now there is a "royal" separation from the common folk.  The beginning of a true "class" society a la the Saxons and Franks.  And with it the beginning of a loss of a lot of freedom.  As well as caring about the lot of the common folk.

Added to the not caring about the common folk is Aslaug's whole attitude with the sporting of "the smug" which she always projects.  And now she seems a total alcoholic as well. 

And screwing around with the Wanderer in the past isn't exactly setting a good example either and ended up with the dude deciding in turn to share his "wealth" with any and every female in Kattegat he could.  I bet that had some repercussions when the men returned from their Paris raid to find a baby boom going on there.

Also when Aslaug and her boys were sitting around the table talking this episode you will note that she made it clear that these young "kings" could have unlimited women because of the royal blood.   Lagertha took a dim view of women being treated that way and let Ragnar know right off it was NOT permitted with her and then left.

Markets and growth are not always a good thing either.  They lead to more people then can possibly know each other and so have each others back.  The whole feel of community has been way diluted as a result.  Some growth, fine.  But Kattegat does look a mess now to me.  Too much growth too fast.  (Yeah I'm not a big fan of capitalism and more wealth = better life so that is my pov here).

So yeah I can see how Lagertha thinks Aslaug messed up Kattegat. 

Edited December 12, 2016 by green

[PatsyandEddie]

Great explanation green! Kattegat seems crowded and impersonal and Aslaug is quite far removed from her people. Not just by arrogance but by her wine cup.