S08.E01: It's Worse Than We Thought

[LilWharveyGal]

1 hour ago, RazzleberryPie said:

The LDS church wants nothing to do with polygamy today. They don't have to accept anyone who doesn't want to say polygamy is wrong. 

A whole organization shouldn't have to bend its rules - especially when it believes these rules were direct commands from God - for two people. 

It doesn't matter if I don't think the rules make sense or if I think Joseph Smith or whoever made up these rules. I'm not trying to be a member of the LDS church. 

Oh, I'm totally with you there.  They absolutely have the right to accept people or not based on their own rules.  But after hearing here that they accepted one of the Darger kids, it just doesn't seem like they're applying the same standards to all potential members and that strikes me as unfair.

 

1 hour ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Except this family does nothing quietly. The Browns say the purpose of their show is to bring attention to polygamy to decriminalize it. 

Here I have to disagree.  The Browns have ignored, omitted, or twisted tons of facts over the years that don't suit their narrative.  

[Galloway Cave]

5 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Since Kody is not adopting Robins kids, Meri should insist he remarry her.  I am dead serious.  She should insist after they work things out and they very well may. To what point, who knows, but something better than what they have now.  

Kody DID adopt the kids. When he is asked if he will now divorce Robyn to remarry Meri, he says why would he do that? It's just a piece of paper. Doesn't matter if Meri wants him to remarry her, Kody will never do it because he will do what Robyn wants. Meri was a done deal the moment Robyn came into the family. She says she wants to live polygamy but what she REALLY wants is to be associated with a semi-famous plyg family, monogamously married (because that is all she really knows) and have the assumed benefits of polygamy (babysitter sister wives and legal wife/head bully status).

If they ever saw a real therapist, Kody's head would explode and the women would sit there looking like deer in the headlights. They see a plyg counselor, someone who is trying to keep them together as a plyg family rather than see the light and grow as people. That is why Kody loves her. She supports him and he uses her to keep the wives in line. And that is why she also is on the show. No real therapist would agree to filming.

[RazzleberryPie]

43 minutes ago, LilWharveyGal said:

Oh, I'm totally with you there.  They absolutely have the right to accept people or not based on their own rules.  But after hearing here that they accepted one of the Darger kids, it just doesn't seem like they're applying the same standards to all potential members and that strikes me as unfair.

 

Here I have to disagree.  The Browns have ignored, omitted, or twisted tons of facts over the years that don't suit their narrative.  

I totally agree with you. They may say they want political activism, and Christine may genuinely want that, but Kody wants attention. They rest are just along for the ride. 

Who are the Dargers?

[Wings]

23 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

I totally agree with you. They may say they want political activism, and Christine may genuinely want that, but Kody wants attention. They rest are just along for the ride. 

Who are the Dargers?

Cody's family . 

[Wings]

To those familiar with LDS. 

I can walk into any church and listen to the sermon and whateverelse goes on.  Is the situation with Mykelti that she is not allowed inside the church with Tony?  Or she cannot become official by being baptized or whatever ritual they have?

Tony was a Catholic not that long ago and he is young. I think he will move on if they do not accept his wife. He is exploring, it seems. 

Funny Kody assumed they have not had sex. They very well may have. 

[RazzleberryPie]

2 minutes ago, wings707 said:

To those familiar with LDS. 

I can walk into any church and listen to the sermon and whateverelse goes on.  Is the situation with Mykelti that she is not allowed inside the church with Tony?  Or she cannot become official by being baptized or whatever ritual they have?

Tony was a Catholic not that long ago and he is young. I think he will move on if they do not accept his wife. He is exploring, it seems. 

Funny Kody assumed they have not had sex. They very well may have. 

1) Kody is an egocentric idiot that thinks things don't happen if he doesn't give permission. Premarital sex is a HUGE no no for fundamental Mormons and LDS, and we have no idea if these couples did or didn't have sex, but STFU Kody. None of his business. 

2) any person can go into some parts of a Mormon temple, but only LDS can go into certain sacred areas, and only active LDS with a temple recommend can go into even more sacred areas. It's just how they roll.

I personally know two childhood friends (from Pennsylvania and Virginia - LDS, not not nearly as immersed as Utah LDS or AUB like Kody) who married in the temple in Baltimore. It took months of counseling (standard with most church marriages, just more extensive), and a temple recommend from somebody high up.

Their dad is not Mormon and could not attend even to walk his daughter down the aisle. I could not attend. Only active Mormons in good standing could attend, and there was some part of the ceremony that only the couple and the officiant took part in. My friend had a huge reception for everyone a few days later and she wore her dress. Her dad walked her in and 'gave her away' there. 

3) the Kodsters are not LDS. They are AUB. They were all baptized into the AUB, or into Kody's home church. The LDS does not recognize any other branch of Mormonism as 'legit' in terms of being in good standing and able to enter the more sacred, non public areas of the church. Mykelti nor Tony would be permitted to go in the LDS only areas.

[Absolom]

Perhaps the Darger kid was accepted because his parents aren't on TV.  They had a very short-lived time where they were shown. 

I think possibly the discussion is on two different things.  One is the regular services and the other is the temple.  Non-mormons can attend the regular services as they aren't held in the temple.  However, a temple wedding would definitely be out. 

[Zahdii]

2 hours ago, wings707 said:

 

Christine seems to be the one wife that is the most positive and easy.  She is pretty, too.  Doesn't seem like Kody Is all that into her.  Is it just about him being all about Robin?  Or did something happen that I missed?

Christine is positive, easy going, and pretty.  And she's considered polyg royalty because of her lineage.  She had dreams of being the third and final wife in a polygamous marriage because she considered that to be the sweet spot.  She wouldn't have to have the responsibilities of the first (and traditionally) legal wife, and she wouldn't have to be the second wife that came in and took attention away from the first wife.  She figured that by the time she got there, the first wife would have become accustomed to sharing a husband and she could slip in and take up the slack by keeping house and babysitting all the kids while the first two wives held jobs.  She wanted to be the stay at home mom and the fun one that Kody could turn to when he wanted smiles and cuddles.

It kind of worked out.  She married Kody and became a buffer between Meri and Janelle.  She was the one who was always home for the kids, and Kody could turn to her when things got too difficult with the other wives.

But there was a problem.  Kody was then and still is a narcissistic ass.  When he only had two wives, and his loins got itchy for some more strange stuff and his ego required another wife, he was initially interested in Christine.  Her face was pretty enough, and she was thrilled to jump on board, but he saw her enjoying a plate of nacho's a bit too enthusiastically and he was turned off.  Kody was a pretty good looking man back in the day, and I think he felt he deserved an equally good looking wife, but he also wanted a polygamous marriage and that is understandably a turnoff for most women.

Meri filled his need to be wanted to the point that she reluctantly agreed to share him.  They all realized later that she couldn't do it, but as stressful as it must have been to have Meri constantly at odds with Janelle, I think Kody still had some loyalty to her because she was his first wife, and it was flattering to him that she was constantly trying to be his only wife.  Janelle was calmer and much more low key, so that was probably nice when Meri got to be too much for him to deal with.  Kody also seems to have a need to have a lot of children and Meri was only able to have one, while Janelle was pumping them out with ease.

But, as I said before, Kody has an incredibly large ego, and he felt that getting another wife would be just the ticket.  I think the bit about his religion also says that a man with three wives is better than a man with only one or two, cosmically speaking, was an afterthought.  Christine was dangled in front of him as his next wife, and he was somewhat concerned that she wasn't a supermodel because she was already a size 12, but he really wanted to hurl when he saw her noshing down on a plate of nachos.  He wanted to end it right there, but couldn't.  A newbie to polygamy doesn't just toss away polyg royalty like Christine without a good reason, and Kody wasn't swift enough to come up with a good reason.  So Kody married Christine, fathered six kids with her, and used her as his port in the storm when things weren't going well with Meri or Janelle, but he never quite got over the feeling that he was forced to marry Christine.

She was always last place with him until things went wrong with Meri.  I wouldn't be surprised if part of his newfound closeness with Christine was a big FU to Meri.

2 hours ago, wings707 said:

Since Kody is not adopting Robins kids, Meri should insist he remarry her.  I am dead serious.  She should insist after they work things out and they very well may. To what point, who knows, but something better than what they have now.  

I fail to see what good could come of Meri insisting that Kody remarry her.  He wouldn't do it anyway, and I think even Meri knows that you can't put the genie back in the bottle.  Kody moved on and wanted Robyn as his legal wife, and at this point I think that even if he didn't want to be legally married to Robyn anymore, he still wouldn't want to remarry Meri.

I'm also not sure if he really adopted Meri's kids from her first marriage, or if it was all a ruse to get Meri to agree to a divorce and TLC staged the adoption proceedings to keep the show going.

[Zahdii]

2 hours ago, wings707 said:

I would like to come out of retirement, fly out there and offer my counciling services free of charge.*  I know exactly how I would approach it.  I don't believe Nancy is a real therapist.  My guess is that she is a retired social worker or school councilor from their religion (or a branch) they recruited because she is part of this incestuous get up. Google brings up zip about her.  I doubt Nancy is even her name. 

* couples councilor

I think it's spelled 'counselor'.

[Marigold]

In a LDS baptism interview, you are asked about polygamy. 

How did the Brown girls respond? Did they say  "will, I'm not personally into polygamy. Joseph Smith had 40 wives so I don't think it's a sin.  It's just not for me."  HUGE alarms will go off in this scenario. 

Caleb Darger might've simply renounced polygamy. He still loves his family but renounces polygamy.  Period.

I'm LDS and we all have family members doing things that the LDS church does not agree with.  That's life.  It's how the member feels about it that matters. 

[Wings]

1 hour ago, Zahdii said:

I think it's spelled 'counselor'.

It is. I know the word well. I am posting on a very old and screwed up iPad right now. Old one from my granddaughter. The autocorrect or what ever it is on this thing wouldnt let me correct that word. Sometimes it types the letter z, 20 times. 

  I have given up. If I get the gist out I consider myself lucky.  It is random in many things.  It does fine foe an hour or two and then screws up.  She is using my phone at the moment. 

My loptop comes back on Monday.  Oy

Thank you Razzle and Zahdii.  It had no problem spelling those words! 

I appreciate you answering my questions.

[Wings]

Christine learned of Kody's horror at her nacho eating when she watched the show, certainly. Was there any backlash on tape or SM from her?  

[laurakaye]

21 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

When have the Browns ever cared about fairness or equal distribution of resources? 

See also: "Meri's McMansion," which was built specifically to include a wet bar, at great expense - as well as a re-drafted blueprint to accommodate said wet bar.

[AZChristian]

4 hours ago, wings707 said:

To those familiar with LDS. 

I can walk into any church and listen to the sermon and whateverelse goes on.  Is the situation with Mykelti that she is not allowed inside the church with Tony?  Or she cannot become official by being baptized or whatever ritual they have?

Tony was a Catholic not that long ago and he is young. I think he will move on if they do not accept his wife. He is exploring, it seems. 

Funny Kody assumed they have not had sex. They very well may have. 

There's a difference between a local Mormon church and a temple.  Anyone can go into a church; I even sang at a funeral once in a Mormon church.  But the TEMPLE is different.  As was posted above, some parts are open to the public, but non-Mormons cannot attend a temple wedding - even families of the brides and grooms.  

We live in an area with a large population of Mormons.  It used to be, if someone was found to be an elected representative in one of the cities, the first question was "what ward?" because it was assumed you were LDS if you got elected.

[RazzleberryPie]

3 hours ago, Marigold said:

In a LDS baptism interview, you are asked about polygamy. 

How did the Brown girls respond? Did they say  "will, I'm not personally into polygamy. Joseph Smith had 40 wives so I don't think it's a sin.  It's just not for me."  HUGE alarms will go off in this scenario. 

Caleb Darger might've simply renounced polygamy. He still loves his family but renounces polygamy.  Period.

I'm LDS and we all have family members doing things that the LDS church does not agree with.  That's life.  It's how the member feels about it that matters. 

Thank you for some clarification coming firsthand from someone who is LDS. 

I think the Brown girls were asked something like that and that's how they responded. I'm trying to remember if it was on the show or in an interview, but that's how it went down. They were honest, the church was honest, and every one just wasn't compatible. I don't think the church did anything wrong with asking them adhere to the church's beliefs before accepting them as members. Believe something else, then go to a church more in line with your beliefs. 

[jacksgirl]

Phew, 12 pages lots of snark. I'm one of 8 children,  spaced closely together. Younger brother was married in May,  I was an August bride the same year. Planned weddings around college graduations and jobs. Guess what, neither of us felt slighted or hurt because we weren't the star of the year. I got my day, my brother got his. My mom was busy, but loved it. Planning a wedding isn't a full time job unless you are a wedding planner. Gosh, these people are lazy.

On a more shallow note, Truely's room was filthy, there was also crayon drawing on the wall.

Edited December 3, 2016 by jacksgirl

[Galloway Cave]

4 hours ago, Zahdii said:

I'm also not sure if he really adopted Meri's kids from her first marriage, or if it was all a ruse to get Meri to agree to a divorce and TLC staged the adoption proceedings to keep the show going.

After I posted my comment this morning, I realized this was more what I should have said. I too don't think there was an actual adoption of the kids but maybe just a guardianship or formal paperwork allowing the kids to remain with the Browns if something happened to Robyn. But if David Preston Jessop DID give up his parental rights, there had to be a huge pay-off for him, like maybe more time with the kids.. Two of them are going to be of age soon anyway, so it doesn't really matter at a personal level. But like Zahdii said, gotta keep the gravy train going.

Re: LDS situation. Tony is being filmed with the Browns, so it can't simply be the church doesn't want their members publicly associating with plygs (or even just being televised with them). Something else had to have gone down with Maddie and Mykelti during their interviews with the church. Whatever it was, it definitely plays right into Kody's persecution wheelhouse.

[AnnieBeez]

16 minutes ago, jacksgirl said:

Phew, 12 pages lots of snark. I'm one of 8 children,  spaced closely together. Younger brother was married in May,  I was an August bride the same year. Planned weddings around college graduations and jobs. Guess what, neither of us felt slighted or hurt because we weren't the star of the year. I got my day, my brother got his. My mom was busy, but loved it. Planning a wedding isn't a full time job unless you are a wedding planner. Gosh, these people are lazy.

On a more shallow note, Truely's room was filthy, there was also crayon drawing on the wall.

Thank you! I've never understood this stealing thunder business. With THAT many kids THAT close together, it's bound to happen. Just like birthdays, I imagine. 

[3girlsforus]

1 hour ago, MischaMouse said:

Thank you! I've never understood this stealing thunder business. With THAT many kids THAT close together, it's bound to happen. Just like birthdays, I imagine. 

I firmly believe that it was all about what TLC would or wouldn't pay for. I doubt they'd pay for 2 weddings in one season and Maddie got there first. Kody doesn't have the money to pay for a wedding and even if he did, he wouldn't spend it on his kids. Money is for him. 

[Galloway Cave]

10 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

I firmly believe that it was all about what TLC would or wouldn't pay for.

Exactly. Not only what TLC would pay for but what would extend the contract. December! Because really, it's only four months later than August and for a normal family that was having financial difficulties, that would still be a close timeframe. A December wedding allows TLC to film yet another lead-up to the wedding: all the wacky planning hijinks, all the angst of blending an LDS and plyg couple, and will they have Kodouche officiate yet another wedding? Of course, the viewing audience really doesn't give a rat's ass at this point but Kody doesn't see it that way.

[Wings]

16 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

I firmly believe that it was all about what TLC would or wouldn't pay for. I doubt they'd pay for 2 weddings in one season and Maddie got there first. Kody doesn't have the money to pay for a wedding and even if he did, he wouldn't spend it on his kids. Money is for him. 

I don't think it is the money with TLC, it is more likely an entertainment issue.  They have to keep it interesting and 2 weddings in the same season is redundant. 2 flower shops, 2 dinner tastngs, 2 cake tastings etc... Does not make for a nail biting wait to see what.happens promo.  And I believe they all  knew that. So much is staged because so little happens. 

They had to have the hour of "but we don't know him angst."   They are saving the Meri/Kody/Nancy (who is really a clerk at Walgreens) drama to span the next few weeks to recive wedding viewers. 

Edited December 4, 2016 by wings707

[RedheadZombie]

On November 29, 2016 at 1:05 PM, DeeReynolds said:

One thing that surprised me this episode was the talk about Tony being a member of the LDS church and that like Maddie, Mykelti wanted to join but was rejected. I cannot imagine wanting to join a church congregation and not being able to not based on my own merits or actions, but because of the choices my parents made. Maddie and Mykelti didn't choose to be born into a polygamist family, nor did they consent for their lives to be made public and put on tv. They were minors at the time. I suppose they do have a choice now about being filmed and they do choose to continue their association with their family. Good for them for not bowing to the church and cutting off their own family just to become a member of an (IMO) oppressive and controlling religious sect. 

It would be very hard to believe the same way and want to join a church but to be told that essentially, you aren't worthy. And I believe to LDS members, getting married in the temple is super important. I feel bad that it isn't an option for them based on choices that Kodouche made whenever they went public however many years ago. 

It certainly doesn't speak well of the LDS church.   If they had accepted Maddie and Mykelti, it would have encouraged children of FLDS to leave the life of polygamy and join LDS.  It reflects a small-minded and petty attitude, especially for a church so desperate to recruit they send young men door to door.

On November 29, 2016 at 1:34 PM, gonecrackers said:

Exactly. Maybe the parents should encourage them all to get their degrees & careers at least somewhat established, THEN they will help as much as possible with the wedding costs when that time is right & they are really ready. They have the rest of their lives to have sex. They need to get their education & personal selves established right now, while young & unencumbered.

I'm concerned they'll end up stuck someday, but I guess 'divorce is not an option' Kody isn't concerned... even though 2 of his wives are divorced. Go figure.

I think they were entirely education first, marriage later.   But they let their personal feelings for Caleb, and their belief that Maddie was uber mature, influence them.  As usual, no foresight - Mykelti is simply following the example that Maddie has now set.  And BTW, I don't think Caleb has a post- high school education, and Maddie has been dickmatized, and has apparently given up her grand plan to be an attorney.   So Maddie is no longer the good example for her younger sisters.  I guess Aspyn now wears that badge.  She's young, enjoying herself, and apparently continuing her education.  Go Aspyn!  I always preferred her over Maddie, and don't get why Janelle's kids get all the love and credit.  Why are they so much better than the rest?  Because Janelle got an associates degree?  Big deal.  

[Nowhere]

I hope they don't make us do this again for Mykelti. I don't need an entire season dedicated to a wedding followed by a two-hour wedding special for anybody in the world, much less these two spoiled brats. Just because the audience is predominately female doesn't mean we all want to sit through every second of boring ass wedding planning. 

It would be more interesting if they did both weddings in one season because then we'd find out how they really feel about each other. Two bridezillas, two bride moms, one dad they all have to fight over, all of this while playing happy family. We'd see some true colors.

[Absolom]

59 minutes ago, wings707 said:

They are saving the Meri/Kody/Nancy (who is really a clerk at Walgreens) drama to span the next few weeks to relieve wedding footage. 

I always get the central casting vibe from most of their additional people so Walgreens is a real possibility that main job.   I don't expect TLC is going to change their pattern too much.  SW is doing well in comparison to the rest of their schedule.  I'd like to see things change but I'm not expecting it. 

[RedheadZombie]

On November 29, 2016 at 1:39 PM, 3girlsforus said:

I'm curious about this. Do we have outside confirmation that this is the case? After all, these are people who still are trying to convince us that they "escaped" from Utah when they moved to Vegas. It would be awful to have a church you want to be a part of turn you away for your parents beliefs and lifestyle. Certainly that could have happened here. But I'm wondering if it was more subtle than that. I can see them being turned down for membership if they refuse to say that they don't believe in polygamy as part of the religion. That is a huge deal now for the LDS as they try to distance themselves from the polygamist history of their sect. I would be different if they were told they couldn't join if they still associate with their parents, that would be awful. But I can see denouncing polygamy as it relates to the religion being necessary to join the church. After all, why would you want to be part of a religion where you don't believe in a major portion of the church. I see the view on polygamy in LDS being a much bigger deal than wanting to join and still wanting to drink caffeine. It would be like someone wanting to join a Catholic church but saying they aren't really sure about Jesus. 

Certainly they could have been turned away because they are Browns. It would be horrible and I hope that didn't happen to them. But I'm wondering if our only source for this info is the Browns themselves. They aren't really reliable when it comes to fairly evaluating their "discrimination'. 

I'm not sure Catholicism and Jesus are a good comparison.  I would hope expressing doubt in Jesus would get you more time, versus getting booted from the church.   Yes, LDS is now anti-polygamy.   That only happened because it was the only way to get statehood.  They don't disavow Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, or any of their polygamist forefathers.  In fact they re-tell this history as Smith, Young, and the others, saving widows and orphans.  As if you can't help widows and children without having sex with them.  And why always marrying the young girls?  I don't wish to slam LDS, but facts are facts.

On November 29, 2016 at 5:05 PM, gonecrackers said:

When Meri & Kody were talking, I sensed an odd, condescending tone from Kody, almost like he was trying to calm a person in hysteria. I thought he also has a convenient memory; just what maybe he's comfortable remembering. He has a way of presenting himself as being open minded, but I don't feel this is really the case with him, unless it serves him personally. I haven't watched this show much, but when I do I see markers of someone manipulative & emotionally abusive.

I'm so ambivalent on Kody.  I'm completely on Meri's side in this matter, but I tend to empathize with Kody.  As compared to his father, I think Kody is a damned food father.  His father was cold, withheld affection, and didn't have much respect for women (or Kody).  Kody is also a lot more honest with his wives.  He never pretended he wasn't drawn to polygamy, whereas Wynn (is that his name?) had his big revelation when Kody was on a mission.   Kody's poor sweet mother apparently had no choice in the matter.  I thought he was a pretty typical SOB.

I actually think Kody has lived his life seeking his father's approval, but never got it.   No matter how good of an athlete he was, Wynn never bothered - not once - to come see a match.  Waited until Kody was in high school to even get him proper work gear for Wyoming outdoor winters.  And then when he did buy this gear, he gave it to Kody as a gift, and coincidentally had it boxed within a package for the letter men's jacket that Kody had asked for.   That's just cruel.  And I completely believe Kody, who tells the story in a positive way, and how his father was teaching him a valuable lesson.

i also think Kody decided on polygamy to please his father.   Kody was a young man with feminine mannerisms, and I'm sure his father held it against him, and railed it him to "be a man".  So he saw polygamy as a way to prove his manhood.  I don't think Kody's heart has ever been in polygamy, and he's always been overwhelmed, unprepared, and lacking in the ability to be a "proper" polygamist.     And it could not be more obvious in his choice of wives - outspoken women who don't want to be bossed around.  

All my opinion, but strongly felt.  Doesn't excuse his short comings, but maybe helps explain them.  And it seems that Kody was a very involved father for the first eight or so.  Of course they all should have had the sense to stop then.  

On November 29, 2016 at 5:50 PM, SongbirdHollow said:

Janelle, Robyn and Meri are all divorcees!

Christine still has time!  

[Marigold]

43 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

It certainly doesn't speak well of the LDS church.   If they had accepted Maddie and Mykelti, it would have encouraged children of FLDS to leave the life of polygamy and join LDS.  It reflects a small-minded and petty attitude, especially for a church so desperate to recruit they send young men door to door.

 

Other FLDS families and children have switched to LDS. Caleb Darger is a public example and is serving a mission, which is a really intense interview process etc.

 I really believe that Mykelti and Maddie did not denounce polygamy and stated that they were fine with it but it wasn't for them. They have said that on camera numerous times.  They are "high profile" to begin with so you know they are going to get asked to clarify their beliefs on polygamy. I never heard them say that they feel polygamy is wrong just that they don't want to be a polygamist wife. 

It's not unreasonable for the LDS to ask its converts to agree with their doctrine.  If not, maybe another branch of Mormonism might work out better. The LDS are not the only Mormons out there. 

And the Browns have been known to bend things to fit their narrative...who knows what the truth really is?  "Getting rejected" by the LDS adds to their persecution persona. 

[jacksgirl]

Ok, how the hell didn't the flower shop lady not know Janelle is Maddie's bio mom? The wide set eyes are a total giveaway. 

[Wings]

44 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

It certainly doesn't speak well of the LDS church.   If they had accepted Maddie and Mykelti, it would have encouraged children of FLDS to leave the life of polygamy and join LDS.  It reflects a small-minded and petty attitude, especially for a church so desperate to recruit they send young men door to door.

I think they were entirely education first, marriage later.   But they let their personal feelings for Caleb, and their belief that Maddie was uber mature, influence them.  As usual, no foresight - Mykelti is simply following the example that Maddie has now set.  And BTW, I don't think Caleb has a post- high school education, and Maddie has been dickmatized, and has apparently given up her grand plan to be an attorney.   So Maddie is no longer the good example for her younger sisters.  I guess Aspyn now wears that badge.  She's young, enjoying herself, and apparently continuing her education.  Go Aspyn!  I always preferred her over Maddie, and don't get why Janelle's kids get all the love and credit.  Why are they so much better than the rest?  Because Janelle got an associates degree?  Big deal.  

The majority of these kids will probably not go to college.  People without degrees are integral to our society.  Who would check us out at the grocery store,  drive an Uber, maintain our highways, repair our cars, cut our hair? 

They will all find there way and what works for them.  Or they won't, I guess!  LOL.

[Marigold]

I think it was Kody's mom who got involved with polygamy first and convinced Kody's dad to join in. I swear I read that in their book. 

 

Edit: Kody's mom did get involved with polygamy first, then his father

http://starcasm.net/archives/90922

Edited December 4, 2016 by Marigold

[RedheadZombie]

4 minutes ago, Marigold said:

Other FLDS families and children have switched to LDS. Caleb Darger is a public example and is serving a mission, which is a really intense interview process etc.

 I really believe that Mykelti and Maddie did not denounce polygamy and stated that they were fine with it but it wasn't for them. They have said that on camera numerous times.  They are "high profile" to begin with so you know they are going to get asked to clarify their beliefs on polygamy. I never heard them say that they feel polygamy is wrong just that they don't want to be a polygamist wife. 

It's not unreasonable for the LDS to ask its converts to agree with their doctrine.  If not, maybe another branch of Mormonism might work out better. The LDS are not the only Mormons out there. 

And the Browns have been known to bend things to fit their narrative...who knows what the truth really is?  "Getting rejected" by the LDS adds to their persecution persona. 

It smacks of thought control, but I get what you're saying.  Is there any other religion that so heavily vets, and requires a "very intense interview process", that requires you be in lock-step with every single belief, and actually speak those beliefs verbatim?*  That's not trying to bring people closer to God, it's to recruit yes-men and women who won't question some of the wacky and bizarre teachings.  IMO, anyway.  

*Just realized there is another religion that conducts itself in this way - Scientology.  

BTW, I was pretry much harassed by two very clean-cut blonde automaton LDS men.  Repeated returns to my house.  Actually told me - yes, we saw you sleeping on the couch last time we were here.  My saving grace when I finally opened my door - they are forbidden from entering a house with a woman alone.  Yet they continued to harangue me as I stood at the door, trying to control my dog from going at them.  I finally said, look my dog doesn't like you. Can you leave?   Turns out my LDS co-worker sent them because I had politely asked her questions about her faith.  That has never happened becore or since, and I've talked religion with a wide range of people and religions.  Like I said, people so desperate that they repeatedly returned to my house, and I had to practically slam the door on, think that they're too good for others?  I don't buy it.  And I completely believe Maddie's story.   But I respect your right to think they're lying.  I just don't agree. 

11 minutes ago, Marigold said:

I think it was Kody's mom who got involved with polygamy first and convinced Kody's dad to join in. I swear I read that in their book. 

 

Edit: Kody's mom did get involved with polygamy first, then his father

http://starcasm.net/archives/90922

If true, it's utterly tragic.   That woman clearly struggled with it, and openly admits it.  

[Wings]

Good post RedheadZombie! interesting and you make a lot of sense. 

[RedheadZombie]

13 minutes ago, wings707 said:

The majority of these kids will probably not go to college.  People without degrees are integral to our society.  Who would check us out at the grocery store,  drive an Uber, maintain our highways, repair our cars, cut our hair? 

They will all find there way and what works for them.  Or they won't, I guess!  LOL.

Of course.  But as long as those jobs pay a non-livable wage, parents will continue to hope their children don't  grow up to do these jobs.  Plus, many people do these jobs while attending high school and college.  They are not mutually exclusive. 

And trades are different.  Get a union job and you're practically set for life.  And trade school is an advanced education.  

[Marigold]

I don't know if they are deliberately LYING.  I think the Browns see things in unusual ways.  They enjoy that persecution drama.  They really are a nutty group so I'm not putting too much credibility in their story. 

And they can still attend an LDS church.  Just being a formal member is an issue.  Why would they even want to join the LDS when they so intensely hate polygamy?  If I were Maddie or Mykelti, I would not be interested. I wouldn't join a church that put up such a fuss about my family. 

Why don't they join the AUB?  Kody has said that you don't HAVE to be a polygamist to be AUB.  Maybe that would work better for them? Can't Caleb and Tony join the AUB and say they aren't into polygamy but support it?  Can Caleb and Tony join the AUB and say polygamy is a sin? 

The whole thing is mysterious...they only give us bits and pieces of their religion which is annoying because their polygamy religion is why they have a show. 

 

Edit: Apparently Kody's mother entering the FLDS first was discussed in an episode.  i remember it from the book. 

http://cynicaljinxwelcome.blogspot.com/2014/02/sister-wives-recap-tragedy-in-family.html

Edited December 4, 2016 by Marigold

[RazzleberryPie]

I'd honestly think worse of the LDS church if they'd given a pass to allowing someone who does not adhere to their tenants if faith become a memeber.

Why would the girls even want to be members if they have to deny their own beliefs or lie about them. It just wasn't a good fit all around.

Allowing someone to attend services and learn, great. Allow someone to pick and choose what they want to believe when your faith is very specific about certain things, not a good fit. 

I see it as Maddie and Mykelti rejecting the LDS church as much as the church rejecting them. 

[waterytart]

On 11/27/2016 at 8:50 PM, toodles said:

Boy.  This guy sounds like a huge doofus.

Wiveses.

[RealityCowgirl]

I think it's a comfort zone thing with LDS being their go-to if not AUB. Certainly, there are other conservative denominations that share similar values beyond polygamy. I'm drawing a blank on Caleb's dad's church at the moment, but it was a good example.

Whether or not they'll figure that out, or care enough to do the work to find a good match, that's another question. 

ETA I think they also have a persecution complex that comes naturally in that family. Easier to bitch and moan about LDS rules than move on and find a better spiritual match.

Edited December 4, 2016 by RealityCowgirl
RTA

[Kohola3]

10 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Like I said, people so desperate that they repeatedly returned to my house, and I had to practically slam the door on, think that they're too good for others?

What makes Mormons so full of BS about being so picky is that they have no qualms about baptizing the dead no matter what their ancestry or religious beliefs.  Frankly I don't know why anyone would want to be part of the cockamamie cult.

[ladle]

21 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Christine may genuinely want that, but Kody wants attention.

That reminds me!  I thought it was pretty rich when Kody mentioned that his kids like telling people about their plig parents "for the shock value."  That's you, dude. 

[b2H]

On 12/2/2016 at 10:02 AM, wings707 said:

I don't believe I am saying this.  I hope this season has more focus on Meri and Kody's relationship.  

[snip]

I would like to know her credentials.  

Nancy's credentials may be legit, but the only credential she needed was to allow filming of her sessions, which a truly legit therapist would want no part of, in my opinion (disclaimer - my degree is in psychology).

[TurtlePower]

On 12/2/2016 at 8:02 AM, wings707 said:

I don't believe I am saying this.  I hope this season has more focus on Meri and Kody's relationship.  

I would also like Meri and Janelle to get to the meat of their very deep conflict.  Nancy is a lousy therapist.  They are no where near being able to sit next to each other on the couch.  More on that next week. 

 

I'd really like to see Meri and Janelle get to the root of their issues and build a better relationship. Problem with being filmed while in therapy, it's gotta be hard to truly open up. 

And hi all I'm new here! Been watching the show on and off for several seasons; just found this comments spot. Lovely that it remains respectful and civil!

[Marigold]

2 hours ago, ladle said:

That reminds me!  I thought it was pretty rich when Kody mentioned that his kids like telling people about their plig parents "for the shock value."  That's you, dude. 

THIS may be why the LDS put the brakes on Mykelti and Madison. 

Just as an aside, Maddie and Caleb were joking and laughing about definitely serving alcohol at their wedding.  That is another huge no-no for the LDS.  The LDS don't drink it and they wouldn't be part of serving it either. And if an LDS couple was gonna party a bit, would they announce that on TV?  They would keep that to themselves knowing they were breaking rules. Caleb and Maddie thought it was funny? Maybe the LDS church dodged a bullet with those two! 

I really don't think this "LDS rejection" thing is too legit. Sounds like Caleb and Maddie aren't too serious about the LDS.  

Edited December 4, 2016 by Marigold

[BlackWidow]

14 hours ago, Nowhere said:

I hope they don't make us do this again for Mykelti. I don't need an entire season dedicated to a wedding followed by a two-hour wedding special for anybody in the world, much less these two spoiled brats. Just because the audience is predominately female doesn't mean we all want to sit through every second of boring ass wedding planning.

 This^  TLC stop with the endless 'event' distraction. The purpose of a plyg show is to show how the people interact, we can watch some other show for parties and weddings, if we wanted that,there's only tons of them. It' almost as if the plyg factor isn't even a thing anymore and all this staged, orchestrated stuff has taken over (and dopey music and cut scenes).  That said, I did find it hilarious that this season opened with what looked like a donkey (jackass?) braying out in the desert. LOL!

That whole bit with Meri and Kody out on the patio thing, he was totally passive-aggressive even as he was saying he wasn't. "but you told me to go" when it has been like a year later and she was under the impression they were all trying to work things out?
 Him not wanting to talk to her without Nancy to me equaled 'I don't want to be on camera discussing this, let's save this talk for when they aren't around (or maybe, not aat all).'  It's only so obvious he is either actually hurt or angry or he only has wounded pride, because he was too busy on his #4 merry-go-round to really care what Meri was feeling post the whole 'have to divorce Meri for the kid adoption' -

I kind of think it is more wounded pride than actual hurt or he wouldn't be playing these cowardly games. He would have embraced her, camera or no camera and said something to the effect of 'I still love you and want to be with you, and we will work this out..' THEN he could have talked about going to whatever therapist, but get the message across that you still love the person and want things to be improve. Better yet, own your contributions to how screwed up things have gotten. Whether or not she still believes she 'needs him' for spiritual reasons, she seems to have outgrown him. Even if the clothes thing is totally pissing in the wind, at least she is getting out of the house and meeting people and going places.

I believe the other posters are spot on with saying he will do anything to keep the gravy boat afloat- hence the suggestion of adding a couple more wives.  That is probably when #4 lost it. The other stuff- someone's getting married, someone's having a kid, someone's having a party- meh.. same old stuff. The orchestrated 'talks' that we are supposed to be seeing for the first time or 'real-time' but still have that re-enactment feel. The endless 'events' that distract away from the awkwardness and the fact no one is buddy-buddy and hasn't been in forever...

The Mykelti/Tony thing? Probably the directors told him to look kind of slackery because it adds fake-drama. Probably they will both be living back with Christine soon enough, or when they have a kid and don't have the income they once had.  It's just another person on the Brown payroll really. Bottom line, whether or when they get married, he still appears on the show, still gets paid, and money that he gets helps Mykelti out , money that kody doesn't have to shell out for her apartment, medical, whatever.  BTW, when Maddie has her baby , does it count as far as adding to the gravy train as a child actor?

Like I said way back in some other thread, I would bet the LDS not wanting the kids on-board has to do with their getting paid/being on the show- they don't want to have members who are profiting off the plyg thing. It would look bad on them to rail against it all this time, while maybe taking tithing money/having semi-famous plyg-family members, even if they are not plygs themselves, they are still attached to the gravy train.  That could also cause people who are super against it to want to look into the church books(money, IRS. taxes, donors) just for spite, and other unwanted attention. No doubt there has been some unwritten truce that has held up for a while, you leave us alone and not make trouble and we'll do the same.

[Marigold]

The truth is: Meri wants a man all to herself. 

So, she will always be miserable because deep down, this is not the life that makes her soul happy.  Kody will never be able to be what Meri wants.

I almost think I'm defending Kody.       Ugh.  

[RazzleberryPie]

36 minutes ago, Marigold said:

THIS may be why the LDS put the brakes on Mykelti and Madison. 

Just as an aside, Maddie and Caleb were joking and laughing about definitely serving alcohol at their wedding.  That is another huge no-no for the LDS.  The LDS don't drink it and they wouldn't be part of serving it either. And if an LDS couple was gonna party a bit, would they announce that on TV?  They would keep that to themselves knowing they were breaking rules. Caleb and Maddie thought it was funny? Maybe the LDS church dodged a bullet with those two! 

I really don't think this "LDS rejection" thing is too legit. Sounds like Caleb and Maddie aren't too serious about the LDS.  

This. I was really surprised when they did hay beer tasting on a episode, and mention drinking wine. No way would LDS do that. Christine was the most excited. Robyn was the only one who didn't want to be near it (she wasn't pregnant either). That made me raise a brow. 

[toodles]

13 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I'm not sure Catholicism and Jesus are a good comparison.  I would hope expressing doubt in Jesus would get you more time, versus getting booted from the church.   Yes, LDS is now anti-polygamy.   That only happened because it was the only way to get statehood.  They don't disavow Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, or any of their polygamist forefathers.  In fact they re-tell this history as Smith, Young, and the others, saving widows and orphans.  As if you can't help widows and children without having sex with them.  And why always marrying the young girls?  I don't wish to slam LDS, but facts are facts.

I'm so ambivalent on Kody.  I'm completely on Meri's side in this matter, but I tend to empathize with Kody.  As compared to his father, I think Kody is a damned food father.  His father was cold, withheld affection, and didn't have much respect for women (or Kody).  Kody is also a lot more honest with his wives.  He never pretended he wasn't drawn to polygamy, whereas Wynn (is that his name?) had his big revelation when Kody was on a mission.   Kody's poor sweet mother apparently had no choice in the matter.  I thought he was a pretty typical SOB.

I actually think Kody has lived his life seeking his father's approval, but never got it.   No matter how good of an athlete he was, Wynn never bothered - not once - to come see a match.  Waited until Kody was in high school to even get him proper work gear for Wyoming outdoor winters.  And then when he did buy this gear, he gave it to Kody as a gift, and coincidentally had it boxed within a package for the letter men's jacket that Kody had asked for.   That's just cruel.  And I completely believe Kody, who tells the story in a positive way, and how his father was teaching him a valuable lesson.

i also think Kody decided on polygamy to please his father.   Kody was a young man with feminine mannerisms, and I'm sure his father held it against him, and railed it him to "be a man".  So he saw polygamy as a way to prove his manhood.  I don't think Kody's heart has ever been in polygamy, and he's always been overwhelmed, unprepared, and lacking in the ability to be a "proper" polygamist.     And it could not be more obvious in his choice of wives - outspoken women who don't want to be bossed around.  

All my opinion, but strongly felt.  Doesn't excuse his short comings, but maybe helps explain them.  And it seems that Kody was a very involved father for the first eight or so.  Of course they all should have had the sense to stop then.  

Christine still has time!  

First of all, Christine has never legally married, so any divorce would be a "spiritual" divorce.

Second, polygamy is kody' s loophole for different nookie with different women.  He told meri in an early episode that it skeeved him out to think of her being with another man when she brought it up in the context of adding another husband to the mix.  Meri was jealous and unhappy from the start.  She tried to tell him how she felt and his answer was basically tough shit.  He has also said that no one woman can satisfy all his needs.  Ewwww.

I think he saw his parents go polyg and thought he hit the jackpot.  Marry more than one wife and it's OK?  SCORE.

What he didn't factor in to the decision was that wives would expect him to be an actual husband to them.  And a father to their mutual children.  

I think he is a better father than his father was, but that bar is pretty low.   Sucks to be you, kody.  

[Galloway Cave]

22 minutes ago, Marigold said:

The truth is: Meri wants a man all to herself. 

So, she will always be miserable because deep down, this is not the life that makes her soul happy.  Kody will never be able to be what Meri wants.

I almost think I'm defending Kody.       Ugh.  

And I think that is how they had the marriages set up Before Robyn. I bet behind closed doors, Kody assured Meri she was the real, only wife and the others were just to fulfill the religion requirements. Meri and Kody were the legally married couple, always running off for vacays together, openly affectionate. Their relationship felt more complete than Kody's relationships with the other two wives. Janelle was the Business Wife and Christine was the Fun Wife and both of them were the breeders. Then Robyn arrived. And Kody's "complete" relationship switched from Meri to Robyn and Meri couldn't handle it. Kody of course doesn't have a clue what he has done because he is all about Kody. In their talk on the patio, Meri was asking him if he knows what he wants and he said he does but won't tell her unless Nancy is there. Meri wants him to say she is still his one real wife and Kody knows that isn't true. He wants her to stay for the show and MAYBE the celestial planet thing and definitely his ego. He knows if Nancy isn't there to buffer that answer Meri will break. Yes, Kody will never be what Meri wants now. She wants things to go back to the way they were and Kody has long moved on. I think it was 3/4 Robyn and 1/4 Catfish that got him to that point. But it was a lost cause once Robyn arrived and until Meri accepts that she is just spinning her wheels and making herself miserable.

[Wings]

3 hours ago, b2H said:

Nancy's credentials may be legit, but the only credential she needed was to allow filming of her sessions, which a truly legit therapist would want no part of, in my opinion (disclaimer - my degree is in psychology).

She could be legit.  If client agrees there is no  problem!  I highly doubt any of the Browns will expose anything they don't want taped. No serious progress can happen under this condition. it is fluff and not a big deal. 

Edited December 4, 2016 by wings707

[laurakaye]

18 hours ago, Galloway Cave said:

After I posted my comment this morning, I realized this was more what I should have said. I too don't think there was an actual adoption of the kids but maybe just a guardianship or formal paperwork allowing the kids to remain with the Browns if something happened to Robyn. But if David Preston Jessop DID give up his parental rights, there had to be a huge pay-off for him, like maybe more time with the kids..

I am beyond amazed that not once has Jessop come forward with his side of the story.  There's definitely tabloid money to be made if he ever decided to share his side of Robyn's decidedly biased story about losing her cookie - and don't get me started on that horrifying portrait she had done of young Kody and her kids - that had to have hurt Jessop (if he even knew about it).  The fact that he's remained silent may just tell of his character.  Maybe he doesn't want to be associated with the Browns, or his ex-wife, or perhaps he recognizes what it might do to his kids if he talks.  I find it interesting that Robyn has painted him as somewhat abusive, yet she has no qualms about sending her kids off to see their dad for an extended stay.  Heck...she probably had some new Victoria's Secret undawares to model for Kody once her pesky kids were gone.

 

15 hours ago, Nowhere said:

I hope they don't make us do this again for Mykelti.

You mean you're not riveted by scene after scene after scene of Kody and HIS FOUR WIVES sampling cake after cake after cake?

 

3 hours ago, b2H said:

Nancy's credentials may be legit, but the only credential she needed was to allow filming of her sessions, which a truly legit therapist would want no part of, in my opinion (disclaimer - my degree is in psychology).

@b2H...this interests me.  We know all about the background of Meri and Janelle...their previous relationship as sisters-in-law, Janelle wanting Kody, etc.  This seems to be the ginormous elephant in every room when the two of them try and make nice with Nancy.  Is it possible that Nancy doesn't know this information?  Isn't is kind of her job to explore their past and how they came to be this way?  I mean, there's Nancy looking at the two women who can barely stand sitting next to each other on a couch for two minutes...and she suggests they listen to a tape on vulnerability?  Of course, this could all be sanitized for TV and there may be absolutely no intention on anyone's part to get to the root of Meri and Janelle's issues.  I'd like to believe (naive as it may be) that no one - not Meri, Janelle, Nancy or the viewers of this show - really want to waste their time on "therapy" that will never amount to anything.

Edited December 4, 2016 by laurakaye

[DakotaJustice]

I think they found Nancy from the same place they got the venture capitalists a few years ago when trying to raise money for MSWC. 

Craigslist looking for actors.

[laurakaye]

Oh, I feel so duped! :)

Not really, but I keep thinking we might actually see a true breakthrough with one or more of these women.  I know the chances of it happening are less than zero, since this lifestyle makes each of them better and all.