S23.E15: The Finale

[RedFiat]

1 hour ago, LadyMustang65 said:

There was no lift in the paso.  That leap Laurie did is the same one she did entirely by herself in her freestyle - the one that was slow-mo'ed.   Sour grapes are not a good diet for anyone.

That was a Tango lift. in a Paso Doble. That wasn't a gym jump.  You cannot swing up like a pendulum without assistance. 

58 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

I agree Laurie's foxtrot didn't look like one, but James' quickstep didn't look like much of a quickstep either. I didn't even recognize what dance it was. It isn't just Laurie that got away with bending the rules. Most everyone does these days. The judges were a lot more strict before crap like contemporary and jazz and trios came along.

Of course it was a Quickstep.  And Carrie Ann told everyone  the rules for  Cirque Night before the show started. It would be good to pay attention.  That foxtrot was crap however. Hated most all of Laurie's ballroom. Too harsh, no flow.  

Edited November 23, 2016 by RedFiat

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Dancing With The Stars Hauls Out The Holly (And The Mirror Ball Trophy)

A holiday-themed finale brings back all of this year's competitors before crowning a winner.

[OnceSane]

If you think a post crosses the line, report it, DO NOT engage.  And if you have stated your opinion several times, you need to MOVE ON.  

Several posts have been removed for ignoring our "Be Civil" and "No politics talk outside the Current Events & Politics forum" rules.

[saber5055]

Well, the final placement order was as I figured, although I was hoping to be wrong and my teevee boyfriend James would win. But whatever. He does have a real job to go back to whereas Laurie only has the DWTS tour now. Plus the winner doesn't get anything besides that mirror ball, right? I've been watching since S1 and can't tell you even a fraction of the winners, so there's that, winners can be forgettable. This show being two hours meant I got to watch The Voice and miss all the fluff and puff of the first hour, so was surprised about the ice rink stage. WTH! How is the camera person who took a header? I wondered how far the studio is from The Grove to allow Tom, Laurie and Val to get there during commercial break. Or were those studio dances taped? In any case, bye James and Calvin. Nice job boys, you made this season worth watching.

[mtlchick]

Quote

I wondered how far the studio is from The Grove to allow Tom, Laurie and Val to get there during commercial break.

About 1/2 mile; when you map it, they're within the same block plus they probably took some back alleys to get there faster.

 

Quote

Plus the winner doesn't get anything besides that mirror ball, right?

Extra cash...the longer you stay on, the more money to get.

[Archery]

I missed some of the intro to Maks' dance with the "hot" women who had the tulle on their butts (they looked like turkeys).  One lady had a pink butt that matched Maks.  When they showed a close-up, she looked really . . . mature.  I was expecting them to introduce her as, I dunno, Shirley Ballas or something, but they didn't.  Is she a regular troupe member? She had short dark hair and looked not to be in her twenties. 

[realdancemom]

1 hour ago, Archery said:

I missed some of the intro to Maks' dance with the "hot" women who had the tulle on their butts (they looked like turkeys).  One lady had a pink butt that matched Maks.  When they showed a close-up, she looked really . . . mature.  I was expecting them to introduce her as, I dunno, Shirley Ballas or something, but they didn't.  Is she a regular troupe member? She had short dark hair and looked not to be in her twenties. 

That was Jenna.  She was a pro this year but her star was the first one to go.  Before that, she was a troupe member.  She's only in her twenties. 

[realdancemom]

Congratulations to Val and Laurie for the win!!  I was fine with any of the three winning but they did finish in the order that I preferred.   

I like the filler on the finale night.  It was like a Christmas special.  I do think that the three finalists should have done their favorites after the fusion dances.  All of them danced them better the first time.  I don't know if it was nerves because they knew they had the fusion dances coming up.  Jana and Gleb danced their favorite just as well but they didn't have any pressure on them anymore.  I did wonder if that shower bit was a good idea since Gleb was recently sick.

I really like the Macy's dance that had Nutcracker music.  Sometimes, I like Mandy Moore's routines.

I finally saw dynamics in Laurie's fusion dance.  There was light and shade. 

From CAI's comment to James and Sharna, it sounds like the pros pick the two styles for the fusion dance.  Sharna did pick the right two for James but it also meant I didn't see a different side of him. Their dance was beautiful and  genteel.  What the judges mentioned was James' negative was what I've been saying the past few weeks.  He's a good dancer and he can act.  But he needs to WOW me.   I'm sure that he wasn't holding back or being careful but that's how it felt when he danced IMHO.  

I think it was good that the show didn't announce who was going to be on the tour until last night.  That way, everyone voted by then.  As somebody mentioned, the ones on tour don't necessarily win.  Alek and Hayes went on tour and Hayes wasn't even a finalist.  Is Laurie still doing a gymnastics tour?  I'm just worried that she's going to burn herself out.  I hope she gets some vacation before the DWTS tour. 

[Archery]

36 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

That was Jenna.  She was a pro this year but her star was the first one to go.  Before that, she was a troupe member.  She's only in her twenties.

Yikes, then. 

[anonymiss]

James and Sharna were robbed. But that's what happens when you let everyone vote instead of the qualified like the judges. So disappointing.

[Mystery Author]

Quote

 Plus the winner doesn't get anything besides that mirror ball, right?

They get money, lots of money. The money goes up (way up) for the semi-finalists, then again for the finalists.

The celebs start with a base of $125,000
Weeks 3 & 4: $10,000 per week ($20,000 total)
Week 5: $15,000
Weeks 6 & 7: $20,000 per week ($40,000 total)
Weeks 8 & 9: $30,000 per week ($60,000 total)
Weeks 10 & 11: $50,000 per week ($100,000 total)

If a celebrity makes it to the final episode, his or her earnings can go up as high as $360,000.

So, obviously, it pays to make the finals :)

Edited November 23, 2016 by Mystery Author
missing word

[Vinyasa]

Quote

I mean, I wouldn't be sad if they stopped inviting the gymnasts on. 

Exactly, what challenge does an Olympic winning gymnast really have to learn these dances? Half of the dances aren't ballroom anymore on this show!

[Vinyasa]

7 hours ago, Carousel said:

Laurie was certainly an excellent dancer, but I am very disappointed that she won.  Maybe I'm not understanding the point of this show anymore, but she was already a dancer from night one.   C'mon, she's been and Olympic competitor since she was 5.   James, OTOH,  boggled everyone's mind with his dancing for a race car driver.   And Calvin -- holy cow  what a super star he turned  out to be.

I agree! This was not second nature to James and Calvin. Did they even stand a chance with Laurie in the cast?

[Callaphera]

Much love to the recapper. However,

Quote

Calvin and Lindsay reprise their "Hotel California" Argentine Tango, and I have to say, the guy singing it has that Don Henley rasp. I'm impressed. 

I think that was actually The Eagles. No way in the world the "worst band on TV" could have pulled off that guitar opening.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Callaphera

[LizDC]

2 hours ago, anonymiss said:

James and Sharna were robbed. But that's what happens when you let everyone vote instead of the qualified like the judges. So disappointing.

Well, the judges had Laurie and Val in first place before the general public got a chance to vote.  It looks like James and Sharna might not have been robbed. 

1 hour ago, Callaphera said:

I think that was actually The Eagles. No way in the world the "worst band on TV" could have pulled off that guitar opening.

That was definitely The Eagles.  They made an acoustic version of Hotel California in the 90s.

[Michel]

18 hours ago, sinycalone said:

James and Sharna may not have won the shiney trophy....but they made the last three months an amazing time for many of us.  And I see from Twitter and FB their fans were certainly plentiful.

Not plentiful enough, it seems.  Thank goodness for that, because all of the overpraise I saw -- here, in particular -- for just decent to good dances was making me vomit each week.  Glad to see the upset that's been brought about over him not winning.

And I liked James, mind you all.  I just didn't see him as God's gift to the show or women like all of you treated him.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Michel

[saber5055]

Ha ha, if god gave James to me, I would be more than grateful for the gift. Thanks for the money facts, Mystery. I knew they got paid, but I guess Laurie doesn't need a job after raking in final week dough. Yowza. Yeah, it literally does pay to make it to the end.

And thank you, mtlchick, for distance from studio to The Grove. (I am unable to "like" posts.)

[photo fox]

I don't claim to be a dance expert, but I know what I like.  James was just so entertaining to watch, even though I certainly don't think he was perfect.  The way I think about it - if I were given an opportunity to watch the three final couples perform in different locations on the same night, there would be no contest.

That said, I like Laurie, too - I watched this show for the first time ever to see her - so I wouldn't say I'm disappointed at the outcome.  I do think she had an advantage coming in because of her training, but where do you stop with that kind of reasoning?  So no figure skaters or gymnasts... what about musicians?  Or actors?  The argument could be made that they both come to the show with skills (emoting, performing on stage) that others lack.

In the end, I thought all three were deserving finalists, and as a first-time DWTS viewer, they set a really high bar for next season.

[sinycalone]

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

Ha ha, if god gave James to me, I would be more than grateful for the gift. Thanks for the money facts, Mystery. I knew they got paid, but I guess Laurie doesn't need a job after raking in final week dough. Yowza. Yeah, it literally does pay to make it to the end.

And thank you, mtlchick, for distance from studio to The Grove. (I am unable to "like" posts.)

I agree...a very nice gift especially at this time of year.  

I think if reading here made me sick every week, I'd avoid this place.

As to where to draw the line....I'd say anyone who had training in dance (of any kind) and/or performed as a dancer at any time should be excluded if you are still promoting your show as a place for contestants with no experience, etc. learning to dance.  Gynmasts certainly have dance training in their histories...and so do many ice skaters.  However, musicians and actors with no dance history/training would still qualify as novices IMO.  Plus, it's not as if Laurie was competing after being away from gymnastics for years.  

Laurie is hardly the first to be labeled a ringer by show fans....those claims date back to season 3 (maybe earlier).  I understand DWTS desire to want names to draw a substantial audience...but that goal often makes for a very uneven playing field.

[TiredMe]

I'm ok with whoever won. I never get very wrapped up in it.

as for the finale, I really enjoyed it. Seeing a lot of Artem and Maks was a highlight. 

For me the only low point was Janas singing. And when I say low point, I mean really low. Oy!

[crowceilidh]

As a Canadian, I have been angry every time the show has cut me off from voting.  I devote (<--ha ha!> hours to watching this show, reading about it, muttering on chatboards and then I don't get to VOTE??  However, it is definitely NOT the only time we've been cut off - it's the second or third time.  It's like tptb change their minds randomly about it every once in a while and then change their minds back. 

Amazingly, I can't make up my mind who I would rather not see dance with Maks -- Amber or Jenna?  

[Steph619]

I disagree with the notion that just because you're a gymnast, you're automatically going to win. Let's look at the gymnasts besides Laurie who've competed on the show in the past.

Shawn Johnson won season 8, but not season 15. (P.S. I'm still pissed about that outcome)

Aly Raisman finished in fourth and Nastia Liukin finished in fourth as well.

In my opinion, yes, you have advantages coming in as a gymnast, but like most of the contestants, they don't come in knowing ballroom. I also think there has to be something else that makes people want to vote for you. Besides being a great dancer, Laurie is charismatic, very likeable, and a great performer. Aly didn't have musicality and as beautiful as Nastia's lines were, she lacked that performance aspect and came off as having a cold personality. Ultimately, neither of them won.

I like Laurie and I voted for her because I'm a fan of her from gymnastics and I loved her on DWTS. I don't think the fix was in for her. As positive as the judges' critiques were for Laurie most of the time, it always seemed to me that they leaned more towards James anyways, especially Carrie Ann and Julianne.

[Snarklepuss]

I think the difference between Laurie and James is like the difference between digital or CDs and vinyl.  Digital sounds snappy and precise, while vinyl just has an extra dimension that digital lacks.  For me, James had an extra depth of feeling to his dance that Laurie lacked.  It's like the child prodigy pianist whose performance dazzles with technical perfection and youthful exuberance, but lacks in emotional depth and maturity.

So that's why I wanted James to win.  Plus yes to being more impressed with him because he was not an athlete or had any dance experience at all.  And yes to not being unhappy if they just stopped with the gymnasts on this show.  My 89 year old father watched this with me - He introduced me to the tango when I was young and have loved it all my life.  After this episode he said that the dancing on this show was more like "calisthenics" than dancing.  Well, it's no wonder he got that impression with Laurie.  I think his impression is also a result of the trend in dancing style these days.

Calvin was great but I always have difficulty with the really tall men as they always seem a little lead foot to me.  Calvin, though, was amazing considering his size.

I enjoyed the Christmas Special aspect to this finale but I was totally with Len on "getting on with it".  It just seemed like they were dragging things out a little too much.  I was fast forwarding like crazy toward the end.

[sinkwriter]

I loved revisiting Calvin and Lindsay's Hotel California dance. When I heard they were going to dance to that song, I thought, that's not going to be good. It just seemed like one of those songs that wouldn't fit the dance and I'd end up feeling disappointed. But I was completely surprised at how great they were, dancing to that song. So it was a treat to see them do it a second time. Definitely one of my favorite of their dances.

[majormama]

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but it seemed like in the past the fusion challenge had more difficult pairings. But Foxtrot and VWaltz are pretty similar aside from the time signature, and same with Jive and Quickstep. I wanted to see something where moving from one style to the other would really show how good a dancer someone was. Like Rumba and Quickstep. That's a Fusion Challenge!

ETA: Looked it up, and yeah, there have been much harder combinations. The Fusion was first introduced in All-Stars and became a regular finale feature in Season 17. Some hard ones include Rumba-Samba, Paso-Salsa, Foxtrot-Paso, and ATango-Foxtrot.

Edited November 24, 2016 by majormama

[nsharma21]

I am So happy for Laurie and Val!!!

[MsDiva2007]

Not sure there is a problem with Laurie winning? Just because she is a gymnast doesn't mean you can dance. The athletes are used to being coached and taking direction that is something alot of people can't do. Dancing requires discipline and thats why athletes are a natural fit on here. The show is called dancing with the stars not dancing with those who have no coordination. There has never been a rule you have to have 2 left feet to be on the show. 

Laurie worked her butt off for that ugly mirror ball trophy and she has been humble and a joy to watch the whole season. This is the first time I watched the entire season without wanting to scream at the behavior of some star, not even lochte who I loathe.  I fell in love with Calvin and James and their bromance.

[mrsmit7]

This whole no ringers allowed discussion gets brought up every season, and It will never make sense to me. No where in any DWTS rule book does it say that the point of this show is about teaching people with absolutely zero dance experience how to dance, no where-Because that's not what the show is about. DWTS is a reality variety show with a dance competition element with the sole purpose of entertainment, that's it. The producers have always wanted a mix of contestants to bring the most value. They want ringers who will give excellent performances, they want novices with potential, they want absolute trainwrecks all for the same reason, because they each bring their own entertainment value.

The fairness in this competition is that the audience decides who they want to vote for for their own personal reasons, this isn't blackpool. You can vote because of showmance, growth, excellent performance, humor, pity...however you feel like it. 23 seasons of this show, with ringers in every season, highlights that having dance experience doesn't guarantee winning, heck or even doing really well (Cody, Christina Millian, roshon, Elizabeth Berkley, etc). Too many other factors are involved.

[ocelot]

11 hours ago, Vinyasa said:

Exactly, what challenge does an Olympic winning gymnast really have to learn these dances? Half of the dances aren't ballroom anymore on this show!

I honestly don't think that gymnasts have as much of an advantage on this show as it seems. At least not that much more than any other athlete. Gymnasts lack the things that are most important for a dancer: they have horrendous feet and lines, and they don't have anything to do with musicality. If they were inviting rhythmic gymnasts on--that would be different. The only gymnast on this show who had nice lines was Nastia. The rest of them do really sloppy, visually unappealing leaps and again the feet. It's not like this show does a lot of tumbling and acro tricks in dances?

I agree for base physicality, body awareness, etc it's very helpful, but I think people equate gymnastics too much with dancing when really they require polar opposite strengths.

Edited November 24, 2016 by ocelot

[katha]

There have been plenty of so-called ringers on this show since the second season, for the most part they haven't won. Often they have been "shocking eliminations".  Since the popularity contest/voting aspect comes into it, all their advantages can't compensate for the audience not taking to them. People watch and vote for varied reasons: They want to see the best dancers, they want to root for underdogs, they vote for "most improved", best partnership, best story, most likable, most heartwrenching drama, most inspirational, etc. Mostly they want to be entertained and everyone is entertained by different things. There's only so much the show can do to make someone happen. Sabrina Bryan, for example, was a case of the show pushing for her in two seasons, and twice the audience said "No, thank you".

I'd also agree that gymnasts on this show are a bit of a "special case". They are clearly some form of ringer, but far removed from people like Nicole Scherzinger or ice dancers. They come with great core strength, athleticism, they are used to being coached, they have some form of performance ability. But all the gymnasts on this show had a basic rigidness to their movements in the beginning, music is just background noise in their floor routines, they don't perform with partners, being stiff and posing a lot seems a requirement in gymnastics while it's mostly a big no-no in the dancing done on DWTS. This all played out to various degrees with the four who have done the show.

Val was talking about this as well: Laurie's fallback performance mode is "cute", she's used to performing solo and only outwards to the audience, she has the basic gymnast rigidness and punchiness (really a problem when you do dances with hip movement, or when you do softer dances). She's also a teenager and that brings its own set of issues: Zendaya and Willow could do nuance and character, but they are actors. The teenagers on this show usually struggle more to give correct interpretations of the character of a variety of dances because they lack the life experience. And I thought you really saw Laurie work on all these things and markedly improve throughout the season in both dancing and performance.

Coming back to the ringer thing: One interesting aspect of having ringers on is seeing what the various pros do with them. Worst case scenario: They try to furiously design themselves to a mirror ball and throw everything and two, three, four kitchen sinks at the wall. This usually ends in a trainwreck because the audience will pick up on all that strain and tension. That was my worst fear before the season, seeing how intense Val can get. But he seemed to have a clear idea about what he wanted to do throughout the season, he stayed firm about only focusing on dancing, not on gymnastic abilities. IMO he found a good middle ground about doing things that pushed Laurie out of her comfort zone, but still rang true for her as a dance persona. And last week, when he was all "Yeah, I think we have a cool concept for the freestyle. Hopefully people will like it" instead of the usual freestyle meltdown, I knew everything would work out fine.

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

No where in any DWTS rule book does it say that the point of this show is about teaching people with absolutely zero dance experience how to dance, no where-

This. I have watched this show from the first season and I have never seen it stated that the show is for people who have no experience dancing ever. That belief is like an urban legend that's just been repeated so many times that it's taken as fact. Far as I know, the show only deemed itself as watching celebrities perform ballroom dancing. But this notion that it's for non-dancers, it's a fallacy in my opinion. 

Not to mention that people can't even agree on who are really ringers. Some people think if someone took a dance class when they were in their teens and they're in the 40's, that that still makes them a ringer. Remember how Marilu was deemed the biggest ringer ever, when this season started. Yeah...

I remember all the ringer claims about Drew Lachey and as someone who saw 98 Degrees very, very poor man version of Backstreet Boys and N'Sync, that was laughable to me. And it's the same with gymnasts. Some are adamant that gymnasts are ringers and automatically amazing dancers and yet we have the proof in someone like Aly Raisman, who had no musicality and spent the whole season stompy and awkward, in my opinion. 

The fact is, people watch this show and like who they like for different reasons. Some people are insistent on this idea of being more impressed with someone who has zero background and that's fine. But this whole notion of that's what the show is supposed to be about and if someone has any type of advantage, they must be a big ol' ringer and it's so unfair is ridiculous to me. Frankly, as I've said, I don't care about ringers and never have. Because I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want to see two hours every season of a bunch of two left feet people lumbering around and if we're lucky we get one person who has some natural talent. Yeah, no thanks. 

Edited November 25, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[saber5055]

I think the complaint about gymnasts is that they are so bendable and flexible, they can kick higher, jump farther, flex in two backward ... all the things "regular" people can't do. So they are more like professional dancers in that flexibility is already there. As for musicians having an advantage: Michael Bolton and Master P, anyone? The viewing public likes to watch dances that are good, so the right final three made it this year IMO. If popular public figures cannot dance, they just don't make it very far. If all the contestants were Rick Perry level, this show would have no one watching. Besides, having "ringers" gives us something to chat about here. I'm just glad Laurie wasn't partnered with Derek. That's a plus!

[crowceilidh]

Quote

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but it seemed like in the past the fusion challenge had more difficult pairings.

They used to be quite a bit more difficult IIRC, but I also think that they weren't chosen by the pro.  Somebody said something about the pros getting to choose which two dances they were going to fuse, but I seem to remember them being assigned.

[tessaforever]

4 hours ago, saber5055 said:

I think the complaint about gymnasts is that they are so bendable and flexible, they can kick higher, jump farther, flex in two backward ... all the things "regular" people can't do. So they are more like professional dancers in that flexibility is already there. As for musicians having an advantage: Michael Bolton and Master P, anyone? The viewing public likes to watch dances that are good, so the right final three made it this year IMO. If popular public figures cannot dance, they just don't make it very far. If all the contestants were Rick Perry level, this show would have no one watching. Besides, having "ringers" gives us something to chat about here. I'm just glad Laurie wasn't partnered with Derek. That's a plus!

Right, and Wynonna Judd! Musicians do not always make great dancers!

[Andie1]

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For me, James had an extra depth of feeling to his dance that Laurie lacked.  It's like the child prodigy pianist whose performance dazzles with technical perfection and youthful exuberance, but lacks in emotional depth and maturity.

This is what I liked about a mature partnership.  Just so much more to savor.  As far as winners who have had training  I thought her dancing was inferior if you compare her to Shawn for example, Laurie was kind of terrible.  The runner up though, in comparison to other people with no dance experience who have won is probably one of the best.  So comparing apples to apples you have Laurie below the standard set by Shawn,  and you have James raising the standard set by  Drew Lachey.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Andie1

[Andie1]

On Wednesday, November 23, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Mystery Author said:

They get money, lots of money. The money goes up (way up) for the semi-finalists, then again for the finalists.

The celebs start with a base of $125,000
Weeks 3 & 4: $10,000 per week ($20,000 total)
Week 5: $15,000
Weeks 6 & 7: $20,000 per week ($40,000 total)
Weeks 8 & 9: $30,000 per week ($60,000 total)
Weeks 10 & 11: $50,000 per week ($100,000 total)

If a celebrity makes it to the final episode, his or her earnings can go up as high as $360,000.

So, obviously, it pays to make the finals :)

This is pretty old, 2008 when TMZ revealed Shawn's salary.  This would be significantly higher now I think.

[realdancemom]

12 hours ago, ocelot said:

I honestly don't think that gymnasts have as much of an advantage on this show as it seems. At least not that much more than any other athlete. Gymnasts lack the things that are most important for a dancer: they have horrendous feet and lines, and they don't have anything to do with musicality. If they were inviting rhythmic gymnasts on--that would be different. The only gymnast on this show who had nice lines was Nastia. The rest of them do really sloppy, visually unappealing leaps and again the feet. It's not like this show does a lot of tumbling and acro tricks in dances?

I agree for base physicality, body awareness, etc it's very helpful, but I think people equate gymnastics too much with dancing when really they require polar opposite strengths.

I agree that out of all the gymnasts, Nastia was the one that moved the most like a dancer and had the nice lines.  It might be because her parents helped train her and they're Russians.  When I watch the Olympics, it looks like the Russian gymnasts and ice skaters do more ballet.  USA athletes are more power tumblers and jumpers.  This is a generalization since there are exceptions.  The problem for Nastia is her performance quality and she had a reserved personality.  Her performances and chemistry with Derek improved but people vote on how they like.  Also, Noah proposed right before finals voting.  The proposal was Sharna's idea to do on that day.  Nastia would most likely have made the finals if he didn't do that.  This is just speculation since war heroes get a lot of votes so maybe he still would have made it anyway.

In some ways, it's harder to unlearn a habit than it is to learn new habits.  That's why Laurie still danced like a gymnast.   She still was better than Aly who had no musicality.  Aly also danced clunky and heavy.  She is more similar to Shawn although I do think Shawn was a better dancer.  However, I only saw Shawn during the All Star season so I don't know how she was in her first season.  The problem I had with Shawn was that Derek kept putting gymnastics and tricks in her routines.  I liked how Val didn't rely on that.  Even in Laurie's freestyle, it only had one simple forward flip.   He did use other gymnasts' strengths like flexibility and her ability to do great jumps.  But at least, it was used to match the style of dance.

Also, I watch this show to be entertained and see good dancing.  I would not watch it if we just had people with no dance experience.  People like James are rare and I don't want to see a bunch of people with no coordination     

[Andie1]

On 11/23/2016 at 9:06 AM, boyznkatz said:

I agree Laurie and probably Calvin were killing it in votes. If Calvin scored higher, he might have had a chance, but he didn't dance as well as Laurie. Does James have that much of a fanbase? I don't follow car racing, but I had never heard of him, and I've heard of most of the more famous racers living in Dixieland.

Dixeland?  Helio was a Brazilian. The season he won a lot of voters were from Brazil,  I remember them on message boards they had just a cute way of writing. 

 

On 11/23/2016 at 3:23 PM, anonymiss said:

James and Sharna were robbed. 

 We have seen the story of a gymnast who was a gold medalist fresh off of the Olympics win because of that fan base and the big hype before the season even started.  I don't think it does anything to advance the show when the winner is pre-determined, because this was a very low rated season.  The finale was at  25% lower than the previous season. Either they want to run a dead formula into the ground or they decided it was worth it to take away any international interest.  

[Andie1]

7 hours ago, realdancemom said:

Also, I watch this show to be entertained and see good dancing.  I would not watch it if we just had people with no dance experience.  People like James are rare and I don't want to see a bunch of people with no coordination

I am in a totally different mind-set. I want to see good dancing because the pros do a great job at teaching and coaching so well that they can bring a non-dancer to the point of great entertainment. That is the far more exciting journey.  I remember great season 8  where not only Gilles Marini dazzled, but bull rider Ty Murray went from a really stiff dancer to a great ballroom dancer.  People loved his weekly blog because it was so honest in the struggle he had to do well.  That is also why I just enjoyed James so much this season with his weekly vlog.  Funny, self-effacing, which is a welcomed relief from a lot of the big headed camera hogs on this show, he just seemed so committed to doing well, and he had the added bonus of being a natural mover. 

Edited November 25, 2016 by Andie1

[Andie1]

6 hours ago, realdancemom said:

She is more similar to Shawn although I do think Shawn was a better dancer.  However, I only saw Shawn during the All Star season so I don't know how she was in her first season

For me, Shawn had far more dance talent than Laurie, but she was overshadowed by Gilles for most of the season in terms of scoring. I did like Gilles a lot that season, but I appreciated that  Shawn had a beautiful flow to her Viennese Waltz,  and Foxtrot,  and a gorgeous Rumba that looked sexy and mature. There was no talk of her not doing rumba because of her age, they just did it to Slow Dancing in a Burning Room by John Mayer a very sexy song.  I think Mark being a superior choreographer and coach had a lot to do with that, even though he was less theatrical than he is now and was very faithful to traditional ballroom dancing back then,  he just looked better with Shawn than Val looked with Laurie. Mark is shorter to match up better in height, and Season 8 Mark would have been 22 to Shawn being 17.  Val is now twice Laurie's age and it for me that's too much. He looks more like a player who found out Laurie was his kid.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Andie1

[vibeology]

1 hour ago, Andie1 said:

 We have seen the story of a gymnast who was a gold medalist fresh off of the Olympics win because of that fan base and the big hype before the season even started.  I don't think it does anything to advance the show when the winner is pre-determined, because this was a very low rated season.  The finale was at  25% lower than the previous season. Either they want to run a dead formula into the ground or they decided it was worth it to take away any international interest.  

What do international viewers have to do with US television ratings? Besides, CTV made the choice to take away international interest by airing The Voice live and pushing DWTS to CTV2 and Sunday airings. 

[Andie1]

32 minutes ago, vibeology said:

What do international viewers have to do with US television ratings? Besides, CTV made the choice to take away international interest by airing The Voice live and pushing DWTS to CTV2 and Sunday airings. 

 But Neilsen also takes into account and measures "spill in" of other markets that would be accessing say, the Detroit local station that may get viewership from real time in Toronto.  The fact that they were willing to drop international interest doesn't mean that interest wasn't there.  It means that the Canadian network could get more advertising dollars by running the Voice in real time because their ratings are much better in the 18-34 demo and that's what advertisers sell to.  Many Canadians found a way to watch in real time be it via sattelite or directly through an unfiltered feed to the US. 

Edited November 25, 2016 by Andie1

[Andie1]

On 11/23/2016 at 8:40 PM, sinycalone said:

Laurie is hardly the first to be labeled a ringer by show fans....those claims date back to season 3 (maybe earlier).  I understand DWTS desire to want names to draw a substantial audience...but that goal often makes for a very uneven playing field.

 

2 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

Laurie isn't a ringer. Her dancing just isn't good enough, to be considered someone taking this on dancing alone.  But she was the pre-determined winner by all the hype coming off the Olympics.  

Edited November 25, 2016 by Andie1

[Zuleikha]

That wasn't a gym jump.  You cannot swing up like a pendulum without assistance.

She pushed off Val, but that's allowed. Most of the jumps and partnered leaps they do are done with the flyer balancing or pushing off the base. Val did not assist the height of her rotation, which is what woud have turned it into a lift. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by pendulum effect, but I'm guessing you're talking about the curve created by her extreme back flexibility.

[katha]

Is there a thread for "Unpopular DWTS opinions" or something? Because the general discussion here sorta reminds me of some of mine in that area.

[Mittengirl]

To completely change the subject,  the AP is reporting the Florence Henderson has passed away.  I could swear I saw her in the audience either Monday or Tuesday.  I hope Maureen is doing O.K.  She seemed so fragile emotionally on the show.

[Diana Berry]

I know she was pretty much there for all of Maureen's time on the show not sure about the finale.  Rest In Peace.

[vibeology]

Oh no, Florence! She was such a lovely woman. This is so heartbreaking and surprising. 

[Snarklepuss]

3 hours ago, Mittengirl said:

To completely change the subject,  the AP is reporting the Florence Henderson has passed away.  I could swear I saw her in the audience either Monday or Tuesday.  I hope Maureen is doing O.K.  She seemed so fragile emotionally on the show.

Yes she was in the audience, see this:

http://www.justjared.com/2016/11/25/florence-henderson-was-at-dwts-days-before-she-died/

[McManda]

Ausiello's report (which is super accurate, I'm sure /s) mentions that the cause of death was heart failure. I can't tell if he knows something no one else does (because she looked pretty well on DWTS for being in  the end stages of heart failure) or if it's supposed to be slightly facetious, like she died because her heart stopped beating. But then the article say she died surrounded by friends and family and I can't tell if that's supposed to be because everyone knew it was coming or because they had gathered for Thanksgiving.

Mostly I'm confused about the timing. I thought she looked well when she appeared on DWTS this season for Maureen and then she dies three days later. It's so sad.