S01.E01: Winter

[starri]

Just now, deaja said:

Personally, I think we've seen that Rory does not have her mom's drive or independence.

Independence, maybe, but people who aren't driven don't accomplish what she accomplished in high school and college.

[Kromm]

I find it interesting that so many hate the episode because Lorelei and Rory are still somewhat shitty people at times.

I do get that people on some level expect to see character growth, but they're still the same people. And that mirrors real life. We like to think we change certain things, and sometimes we do, but more often we really don't.

Then again, I'm one of those people who didn't hate the Seinfeld finale, because in large part it was about peeling back the layers of the show and admitting what shitty people they were. 

I think the KIND of shittiness we saw here for the Gilmores was just subtly different enough that it didn't seem like a retread, and that was what was important to me.

Oh, on another totally different subject... I loved Alex Kingston in this. Not sure if they simply pulled her name out of a hat for this, but... I laughed.

Other things I'm liking a lot: the update/status of Paris. Totally worked. Luke's series of bullshit answers on his so-called Wifi password. Michel, Taylor and Kirk being totally consistent (the whole Ooober thing actually cracked me up). 

Edited November 25, 2016 by Kromm

[readster]

5 hours ago, deaja said:

She was close enough to Richard to come up with something from adulthood then. She's portrayed as an intelligent woman and yet spent her time trying to escape answering instead of just thinking up one suitable story that didn't involve comparing her virginity to the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria. I felt bad for her, but she could have done so much better. 

Completely agree. Now, when Emily went into her rant in the aftermath, that was long needed not only for Emily to bring up the bullshit of what she blamed her parents for. However, at the same time when Lorelai said: "Full freaking circle!" I was like: "About damn time she said that." I agree, with flaws others have pointed out. Rory not having the spine to break up with Paul despite everyone from Lorelai to hints from Luke to end it was too much. I'm sorry at 32, when you are sleeping with someone else, time to move on. Zach has not aged as well as everyone else, but damn I kill for that hair. 

[ghoulina]

1 minute ago, Kromm said:

 

I find it interesting that so many hate the episode because Lorelei and Rory are still somewhat shitty people at times.

I do get that people on some level expect to see character growth, but they're still the same people. And that mirrors real life. We like to think we change certain things, and sometimes we do, but more often we really don't.

 

I didn't necessarily expect their personalities to change. And I don't really find them to be shitty people. Flawed, yes. It just feels depressing because their LIVES haven't changed. I mean, I didn't expect much from Lorelei, she's at the point where she'd be settled, and pretty much is. But Rory left full of so much hope, when she went on the campaign trail with Obama. She wouldn't have a permanent position at a decent paper by now? She's 32, the same age her mother was when this show started. She seems worse off than before the show ended. She seems to have no idea what she's doing in life, and she feels a bit too old for that. 

[JAYJAY1979]

Paul symbolizes to me how men are unimportant in the world of gilmore girls...at least to rory and lorelei.  Compared that mentatlity to emily grieving Richard.

I have to say emily was right on point with her assessment of Lorolei.

Too much Kirk...where is Babette?!?!?

Paris was awesome...as always.  her reactions to lane and her band...made me realize the lack of following through on the comic potential of Paris in Stars Hollow.

Luke/lorelei...no chemistry.  She had more chemistry with Jason in that one brief..imho

[Guest]

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Speaking of Jason, that was such a weird cameo.

[VCRTracking]

Richard's funeral hit me in the gut.

That post funeral fight between Lorelei and Emily was brutal. I can see both sides especially Emily's. Seriously Lorelei? You couldn't think of one story?

Great to see Kirk is still Kirk.

Liza Weil rules both as Bonnie on HTGAWM and back as Paris Gellar. "I'm the Pablo Escobar of the fertility world."

Doyle becoming a screenwriter is a nice meta about Danny Strong.

Liked Jason's "You look like the hottest Italian widow I've ever seen."

[Kromm]

32 minutes ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

Paris was awesome...as always.  her reactions to lane and her band...made me realize the lack of following through on the comic potential of Paris in Stars Hollow.

That was always a weird oversight IMO. Paris and Stars Hollow should have always been like oil and water, and hilarious.

34 minutes ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

Luke/lorelei...no chemistry.  She had more chemistry with Jason in that one brief..imho

Actually it's kind of an example of how Lorelei's apparent fear of getting old has already come true. She and Luke come off as settled, so yeah. No fire, and you have to look hard for a spark even.

[twoods]

I don't know if it's because I'm older while watching the girls now but they seem extra self centered to me. Lorelai could have said one nice story about her father- I saw them sharing some nice scenes together in past seasons. She also could have let the poor chef cook for one damn day- aren't they losing money and customers by not having a full service kitchen? It seemed odd that Michel was the reasonable one.

Dont get me started on Rory and her forgetting about her poor boyfriend while she's screwing her ex. As above posters have mentioned, she is even worse now than before. I did like her following Emily around after the funeral with a concerned look on her face, but that's it. 

I do love seeing the townspeople and Emily, of course. I also like that Lorelai and Luke are in comfort mode. 

[FictionLover]

I thought the dialog was a little flat. Paris and Emily were spot on though.

[Clanstarling]

6 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Has Emily ever dragged Lorelai that hard before? That was brutal.

Stark truth often is. But no, I don't think she's ever been that harsh - which I think was part of the point, in that scene she was a very new widow. And had a little rocket fuel of her own, though she handles it better than Lorelai.

3 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

The whole Paul subplot comes off, to me, as mean-spirited and nasty instead of funny. Especially since Paul seems like a decent guy

This. It's one thing when the butt of the joke is in some way a laughable guy, but he seemed really nice and thoughtful. It makes all of those who can't seem to remember him look bad. But Rory is the worst - and she's cheating on him.

As always, I loved Emily and Michel.

I didn't mind the band practice in the living room - have had it upon occasion in my own, so it doesn't seem strange to me.

Mostly, the reboot just feels tired. I've half a mind just to go to the end and hear the final four words.

[Nanrad]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Emily dragging Lorelai won "Fans' Problems with Lorelai Bingo," my God:

1. Wondering what was so terrible about Emily and Richard's treatment of Lorelai. ("What did we do to fill you with such contempt? Love you? Support you? Love Rory? Support Rory?")

2. Referencing how Lorelai hurt Emily and Richard by distancing herself from them and insulting them. ("What did you mean to do? Break my heart in public? No fun doing it in private anymore?" DAMN.)

3. Mocking Lorelai's obsession with food. ("You, not eaten? Please. (...) I'm surprised you didn't have a pizza delivered during 'Ave Maria.'")

4. Calling out Lorelai's selfishness and self-absorption. ("You never do anything unless it's what you want to do. (...) Nothing matters to [Lorelai] except what she wants and feels.")

5. Pointing out how Lorelai plays the victim and is indulged by everyone in Stars Hollow. ("Go back to your beloved town with its carnies and misfits. Tell them how your intolerable mother yelled at you at your father's funeral. They can all console you and tell you what a witch I am and how perfect you are!" Again...DAMN.)

I recall Lorelai and Emily's exchanges being a little more even-handed in the original series. I don't recall seeing Lorelai ever verbally destroyed like that by Emily before. When Emily goes in, she goes in.

Lorelei does deserved to get dragged for some things, but some of her behavior towards them is not without merit. Richard and Emily didn't abuse Lorelei, but them do come of as somewhat domineering, controlling, and harsh--even back when Lorelei was younger. Most kids will rebel and/or resent their parents for that. The way they loved her sometimes was toxic to their relationship. They think they know more and better than Lorelei about her own life, wants, and needs. 

Admittedly, Lorelei played a role in this situation as well, but the idea that Richard and Emily did nothing wrong isn't something I never personally could get behind. When I watched some of the older episodes, the things they'd say to her in passing or when they were upset was very brutal. And I don't think that was a recent develop as in...when she became an adult. She didn't have a warm relationship with her parents and I doubt that was a lack of trying as a kid--they come off as well-intentioned, but my way only.

And this whole "break my heart in public"--again, I doubt this is a one way street. It seems as if Lorelei gets her stubbornness from both of her parents as well.

[Taryn74]

Finished up with Winter a little bit ago and wanted to share some first thoughts before moving onto Spring.

It's taking a little bit of time to get back into the pace of the show.  I'm okay with that....mostly.  I just hope they do get it back.  And by 'pace of the show' I mean, I want to feel like I'm just creeping on these people in this strange little town.  I want to feel like I'm watching them going about their daily lives, unaware of my presence.  I do NOT want to feel like I'm watching them on a stage acting out their lives for my benefit.  And that's what Winter felt like to me.  I hope that improves.  I'm willing to give the actors the benefit of the doubt, but I do hope that improves.

I thought Luke, Paris, and Emily were spot-on.  Everyone else seemed a bit forced.  

Gil!  OMG.  Was not expecting Gil.  Or Brian!  That was awesome.

I know this is a different world we live in now, but I can't be the only person thinking it's a bit late for L/L to seriously be talking about having a child, even via a surrogate.  Speaking of, is there some reason it would have to be with a surrogate?  It's like they just assumed Lorelai wouldn't be able to conceive and immediately jumped into Plan B.  That storyline would have made a lot more sense if they had been unofficially trying to get pregnant this entire time and were approaching surrogacy as a "okay, we need to face the fact that if we're going to have a child, we're going to have to go about it another way" rather than this being the first time they seriously discussed having a child.

That whole thing did feel like a throwback to L/L's misunderstanding over Luke not going camping anymore and Lorelai not wanting him to miss out on the things HE wants just because he's with her, so good job, show, in sticking to established patterns at least.

Kirk at FND!  There was a reason, and it was a funny one, and it was very Kirk-like.

Damn if that funeral scene didn't make me cry actual tears.  Really like that they kept that scene low-key.  It was perfect.  The after-funeral scene could have been better, but I'm willing to accept it and move on.  Interesting that it's canon now that Lorelai was sleeping with more guys than just Chris, and at the age when she would have gotten pregnant.  I really don't like that direction but okay.  It's a Netflix Original at this point, so whatever.

Speaking of, same with Rory constantly forgetting about Paul and very comfortably having a casual sexual relationship with Logan.  Sigh.  Get off my lawn, and turn down that hippie music, okay?

[ghoulina]

8 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

It's taking a little bit of time to get back into the pace of the show.  I'm okay with that....mostly.  I just hope they do get it back.  And by 'pace of the show' I mean, I want to feel like I'm just creeping on these people in this strange little town.  I want to feel like I'm watching them going about their daily lives, unaware of my presence.  I do NOT want to feel like I'm watching them on a stage acting out their lives for my benefit.  And that's what Winter felt like to me.  I hope that improves.  I'm willing to give the actors the benefit of the doubt, but I do hope that improves

Thank you. That's exactly how I felt, and you put it into words much better than I could. It felt very showy, not authentic. 

[JayInChicago]

I'm thirty minutes in!

wow Scott seems happy as hell to have a job. He's really putting his all in.

loved seeing a longer haired dimple smiled Caeser.

[chessiegal]

I thought the Paul stuff was funny. The character seemed kind of dorky and not someone Rory would date. Plus no one being able to remember him made me laugh. Dang, Logan/Matt looked great/hot. Kelly Bishop looked very thin.

I need to watch it again.

[Anela]

7 hours ago, photo fox said:

All. The. Feels.

I'll have to watch again to form cohesive thoughts, but this just made me so, so happy.

I mostly loved it, too, and I'm kind of wishing I hadn't clicked on this thread. 

Loved Kirk. Loved the opening, mostly. Hated the way Emily ripped into Lorelai. She should have known better than to put her daughter on the spot, when she didn't have the best relationship with her dad - he was still ripping into her years later, over having got pregnant, and choosing her own life, instead of what he wanted for her. So was Emily. Also: I lost my mother, four months ago, and some members of our family are acting like my dad is the only one who lost someone - he lost his wife, but I lost my mother, who was my best friend most of my life. Sometimes, he acts like he's the only one who lost her. So, that was too close to home for me. 

Was surprised to see Paris in her role, and missed her reaction to the band. I kept zoning out, because I haven't had the best week, or day, and the funeral was the one bit I wasn't looking forward to seeing, for the reasons just mentioned. That whole bit with Emily clearing out the house, was something we went through here, too. 

I was really happy to see Taylor, which goes to show how much I was looking forward to this. I did laugh when Rory forgot about her boyfriend, in the diner. I had, too. I DIDN'T like seeing her setup with Logan, though. Cheating on her boyfriend - I know she cheated briefly with Dean, but she was pissed when Logan slept with those girls. 

[rhiamon]

1 hour ago, nosleepforme said:

I screamed when I saw Logan. God, I can't stand him. I think he's the reason why I still haven't made it through season seven. Everybody forgetting about Rory's new boyfriend was a funny running gag to underline how really most of the fan base only cares for her exes. I mean, how many times has Amy Sherman-Palladino been asked who from her exes Rory ends up with ? So I feel like this is her little wink at the audience that she doesn't even bother to take Rory's new boyfriend seriously, while establishing that Rory has had other relationships since the show went off the air.

That's a good thought, and one that makes the whole Paul thing sit a lot easier with me now - thanks!

Also, I've never liked Hep Alien more. I want the album!

I really enjoyed Winter. Like many have already said, it was a little darker but for me still retained enough sparkly SH, GG insanity to get nostalgically immersed in.

[cuddlingcrowley]

I don't wanna jixn the next three episodes, but that was SO MUCH BETTER THAN I EXPECTED! I'm so relieved!

I gotta give it to ASP: the way she instantly made the revival feel like the old show really impressed me. It was like no time had passed at all. I was also very impressed with how she managed to touch-base with so many secondary characters and it didn't feel clunky at all.

Jason! Sweet Jason! I loved his little scene with Lorelai. 

Michel finally came out. Thank frigging God.

THE GIRLS!! OMG!! EXCUSE ME WHILE I GUSH BUT LORELAI AND RORY LOOK SO BEAUTIFUL! It's insane! I've been very vocal about this, but in the trailers and the promotional stills they looked so odd to me and I was dreading getting used to it, but in the actual revival they both look INCREDIBLE.

That Rory Gilmore sure grew up cool didn't she? I love her life! How she seems to thrive in being all over the place, living from couch to couch. There are hints it can be pretty stressfull like the tap dancing scene seems to imply but hey! Everything has its down sides. I also love the new pitch to Alexis Bledel's voice. It isn't as deep as S1 but it isn't the terrible baby voice from the later seasons either. It's like low and soft. Very nice.

I was never Paris' biggest fan but she was a scene stealer here! I loved every scene she was in and I especially loved that Rory and her remained such good friends. They finally actually felt like real friends to me.

Now let's get to a more delicate territory:

- Logan. I'll confess my initial reaction at seeing him and Rory together was something close to panic. I never hated him so I can only imagine how the people who did felt.

I wanna enjoy the story as a whole and if I forget my own shipper bias for a moment I can see that it makes sense. Rory is in London A LOT and it's natural Logan and her would have reconnected. The thing I find intriguing is that they seem to have regressed to the early days of their interactions, doing stringless hook-ups! The difference is that now Rory actually seems to be able to handle that kind of "relationship". I'm not gonna lie: I like it a lot more than I don't. They were at their most watchable at their early days, IMO. At their most beliavable too!

It does seem a little bit...strange that two people who were in a commited relationship and almost got married to each other could pull off something like that. But hey! If ASP wants me to pretend S7 never happened, count me in!

- The Lorelai/Emily fight was VICIOUS and the things Emily said to Lorelai sounds exactly like the criticism of her I've read on his boards for the last few months so I hope it was cathartic for some of y'all.

-I didn't get Lorelai saying Luke never having got to see his child graduate and him replying he got to go to Rory's. Hum. What about April's graduation (s)?

 

- ETA: I'm in the minority that I loved the Paul gag!

Edited November 26, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley
forgot about Paul

[msani19]

On a shallow note, I had to track down the pink coat Lorelai was wearing. I think I found it...if it's the same coat, it's made by Guess and right now it's on sale at Nordstrom :-)

[Anela]

2 minutes ago, msani19 said:

On a shallow note, I had to track down the pink coat Lorelai was wearing. I think I found it...if it's the same coat, it's made by Guess and right now it's on sale at Nordstrom :-)

I was watching with my sister, and when I finally noticed what she was wearing, I gasped and said "I love that pink coat!!! It's from the old series!" I probably can't afford it, but I have to look it up now. Thanks. :)

I also came back to comment on Rory and Logan's casual relationship. I was going to say the same thing as cuddlingcrowley, only I didn't like it. I thought it was odd to see relationship-oriented Rory and Logan, who wanted to marry her, back in a no-strings relationship. I also know that she wanted to see the world, to see *something*, but this groundless lifestyle seems totally opposite to Rory in the first series. At least, to me it does. 

[Miss Slay]

First can I say, I’m so happy Gilmore Girls is back. I loved the show. I’m the same age as Rory – so I literally grew up with it.

Beautiful. Like winter things seem bleak and sad but spring is always around the corner.

I loved the way they dealt with Richard’s death I definitely felt the void of his character and frankly it didn’t feel quite right without him. I would have liked to see Christopher at the funeral – but it seems right that he wouldn’t make it. Loved seeing Digger.

Lorelei and Luke. I’m shocked that they aren’t married. But also not surprised. They seem happy but I thought they wanted twins for the entire series – so I would have liked to see them have children.

Rory is the same. I think ASP is ignoring season 7. Because IRL, Logan would def. be married.  I’m a R/L shipper…and I have a feeling they don’t end up together.

Paris was hilarious. Love her.

And Michel is gay…not a stretch but I guess that brings Gilmore Girls into the 21st century.

And Emily and Lorelei finally go to therapy together. It’s a beautiful thing. Long overdue and should be interesting.

I’m excited for Spring…I hope things warm up.

[cuddlingcrowley]

18 minutes ago, Anela said:

I also know that she wanted to see the world, to see *something*, but this groundless lifestyle seems totally opposite to Rory in the first series. At least, to me it does.

I get that opinion, I really do. But if I could offer a different perspective from someone who could be discribed as sheltered as well, I can see myself in Rory in the sense that it doesn't come easy for her to be daring and be in a unstable enviroment, which is why it takes A LOT of guts to not stay in the comfort zone that leaves you unfullfilled, but be daring and go out there and have the life of adventure you wanna have.

IMHO, revival!Rory(episode 1 at least) would make S1!Rory who dreamed of going to Fez and seeing and doing things proud as hell.

Edited November 25, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[Anela]

5 minutes ago, cuddlingcrowley said:

I get that opinion, I really do. But if I could offer a different perspective from someone who could be discribed as sheltered as well, I can see myself in Rory in the sense that it doesn't come easy for her to be daring and be in a unstable enviroment, which is why it takes A LOT of guts to not stay in the comfort zone that leaves you unfullfilled, but be daring and go out there and have the life of adventure you wanna have.

I was sheltered, too. I still am, in ways. Some of the remarks in this thread had me cringing, because there were ways in which I felt like I was just getting started, in my late twenties/early thirties, and I didn't even have a career.

I've just realized that I did the, "That isn't Rory" thing that bugged me so much on re-watch. She just seemed like she needed some stability. I couldn't picture her in a war zone. Maybe I'm projecting, because I love to travel, to a point, but living out of a suitcase is not my thing, and I most related to bookish, stable Rory. :) Although I dropped out of high school, like Lorelai. 

I'll probably delete this later. I didn't mean to post so many personal details here. I was so happy to finally watch the new episode, but I'm putting off the others until I'm in a better mood.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Anela

[SlackerInc]

12 hours ago, junienmomo said:

Alexis gets better. So much so that I am impressed. The first scene in Winter was a bit clumsy, I'll agree.

Yeah, I thought it was just going to be so-so at that point.  But it got downright great in the back half!

11 hours ago, deaja said:

I didn't like the Paul subplot. Literally forgetting him was supposed To be funny, I presume, but really it just seemed they are still super self-centered. Seeing that Rory's also cheating on him just solidifies that.

Luke's lying about the wifi annoys me as well.

My wife was bothered by this stuff, but I thought it was great.  The reason in our case for the disagreement is that I always thought several of the characters were kind of terrible (while still enjoying the show), although I wasn't sure if the writers meant them to be.  My wife always defended the characters.  So now I loved this, because I felt like they had let the show marinate for a while and decided "yeah, actually, they are pretty mean" and just decided to lean into it and hang a lampshade on that fact.  This for her was pulling the rug out a bit, but I love it.

10 hours ago, junienmomo said:

Yes, too much Kirk in the first episode. Not enough other townies, especially Babette, but Taylor was great.

Good example of how MMV.  Too much Kirk is never enough for me; by contrast, any Babette has always been too much for me.  (And it's not Sally Struthers: I liked her fine on All in the Family.)

9 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Someone on Twitter said that watching the revival turned for them into a referendum on how well the cast members have aged. Lane appears to be married to a man 20 years her senior.

Ha, going by the actors it's actually (slightly) the other way: the actor playing her husband is four years younger than Keiko.

I played this game too.  I thought Luke really aged, while Lorelei actually somehow looked slightly younger than her Parenthood character.  And Michel was incredibly well preserved.  The bandmate who is a former hair metal guy in real life, that they almost refused to let in the band because he was so old, also still looks about the same a decade later.

[zxy556575]

I didn't even understand how Paul could be a boyfriend. Doesn't he live in/near Stars Hollow? Sounded like Rory's only been there 2-3 times a year, so it was a long distance relationship at best and at worst, the boyfriend part was wholly one-sided. Rory couldn't find 15 minutes to have a phone call with him? Casually stringing someone along isn't a good look on anyone.

Edited November 25, 2016 by lordonia

[starri]

I assumed he lived in New York.  Since she seemed to have been based there prior to her decision to become a vagabond, I guess it made sense.

I just chalked it up to being one of those things ASP, and only ASP, thinks is really funny.

[rho]

I rewatched the series recently in preparation and ten years later as an adult I realize I find Lorelai and Rory really grating. I think I knew that at the time but as a teenager watching the show I don't think I minded so much. And maybe it was the stress of being around bickering family members, but watching this opening episode, I was pissed!

I can't believe how cruel Lorelai was at the funeral. Off the top of my head I could think of a few times she connected with her father (probably because they reminded me of moments with my own dad) like when he played dumb and let her sneak out of that miserable blind date. That said, I'm pretty sure most of their bonding moments were also times they conspired against Emily so not sure that would have gone over well either. 

I'm the biggest fan of Logan.. I find him fascinating! Like, I would watch a series that just revolved around him and in my head he gets his shit together and grows up to be Cary Agos from The Good Wife. But, I don't like this arrangement with Rory and I might be in the minority but I think in many ways he's too good for her, not the other way around. I'm really mad that he is still philandering about and hasn't changed. I also hate that Rory is stringing Paul along. In my eyes that's not unlike Logan sleeping with other girls while they were on a break. She has a long history of cheating and it's not a good pattern. I was never a fan of Jess or their romance but I think he might be the right one this time around...if there has to be a one.

But my personal biggest peeve was that 30 minutes of this episode was spent in a flashback to Fall. Sure, it was poignant and relevant but it also felt like poor planning when we missed all the things Lorelai loves about winter.

Emily was at her best more shining emilyness and I loved it! I never expected I'd miss Taylor but he rebounded back true to form. It was even a pleasure to see Kirk back and up to no good. And most shocking of all was my crush on Zach resurfacing after all this time.

Edited November 26, 2016 by rho

[chessiegal]

3 minutes ago, starri said:

I assumed he lived in New York.  Since she seemed to have been based there prior to her decision to become a vagabond, I guess it made sense.

I just chalked it up to being one of those things ASP, and only ASP, thinks is really funny.

Well, I've already gone on record as saying I thought it was funny, so it's not just ASP. ;-}

[cuddlingcrowley]

33 minutes ago, Anela said:

I was sheltered, too. I still am, in ways. Some of the remarks in this thread had me cringing, because there were ways in which I felt like I was just getting started, in my late twenties/early thirties, and I didn't even have a career.

I've just realized that I did the, "That isn't Rory" thing that bugged me so much on re-watch. She just seemed like she needed some stability. I couldn't picture her in a war zone. Maybe I'm projecting, because I love to travel, to a point, but living out of a suitcase is not my thing, and I most related to bookish, stable Rory. :) Although I dropped out of high school, like Lorelai. 

Living out of a suitcase seems pretty hardcore for me, as well, but once upon a time travelling all by myself to a foreign country seemed hardcore as well. By that I mean, I can see Rory living out of suitcase as a natural projection to some places life as journalist took her during the hiatus. She's 32. She didn't stretch her wings overnight. She's grown used to being rootless (to a point at least) and gets a rush from it. 

To be honest, Rory was never my favorite character by any means, but sometimes I feel I have a fundamental different view of her character than other fans. To me, she's a sheltered girl who's lived on the shadow of her brilliant, gorgeous best friend/mother and deeply craves going out there and proving herself to be a lot more than that. To me, she always wanted to live a life worth reading about. 

People always talk she needs stability but I've always seen was the show pushing her out of comfort zone.

Some of the comments around this parts do me make me cringe as well, because it seems a lot people think that in order for someone to achieve those kinds of dreams -- in order to be daring, adventurous and leave a mark on the world-- doing those things must come easy for you. You must have a designed type of temper or personality in order to be happy doing that. And the thing is: for a lot of us, who've gone out there and dared to fullfill some of our crazy dreams, 90% of the time what you feel is fear and anxiety and self-doubt. The other 10%, those moments you realize you're living the life you wanna live that makes it all worth it and some.

Basically, the only thing you need in order to do what Rory is doing is the will for it.

Sorry, rant over.

And yes, I'm also projecting all over the place. But I'm damn proud of her.

Quote

 

Ha, going by the actors it's actually (slightly) the other way: the actor playing her husband is four years younger than Keiko.

I played this game too.  I thought Luke really aged, while Lorelei actually somehow looked slightly younger than her Parenthood character.  And Michel was incredibly well preserved.  The bandmate who is a former hair metal guy in real life, that they almost refused to let in the band because he was so old, also still looks about the same a decade later.

 

Completely agree LG looks younger now than during Parenthood. I... don't wanna know how (I know how). 

Michel looks exactly the same. Maybe better. It's scary. Same for Lane and the hairy dude (Gil?) who looks amazing.

I'm a fan of Cary Agos so I knew Logan would look hot.

Edited November 26, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[SeanC]

I'm a big fan of black comedy, so in theory the whole joke around Paul would be fine with me, but I think that it's way too bleak for this series (or else, the series itself doesn't understand how terrible it makes all the characters look, particularly Rory).  Black comedy only works if you really commit to it.

[Anela]

1 minute ago, chessiegal said:

Well, I've already gone on record as saying I thought it was funny, so it's not just ASP. ;-}

Yeah, I found it funny, too.

 

1 minute ago, cuddlingcrowley said:

Living out of a suitcase seems pretty hardcore for me, as well, but I could see it being a natural projection to some places life as journalist took Rory during the hiatus. She's grown used to being rootless (to a considerable point least) and gets a rush from it.  And frankly, that says all it I need to know for me as far as Rory's character goes.

To be honest, Rory was never my favorite character by any means, but sometimes I feel I have a fundamental different view of her character than other fans. To me, she's sheltered girl who's lived on the shadow of her brilliant, gorgeous best friend/mother and deeply craves going out there and proving herself to be a lot more than that. To me, she always wanted to live a life worth reading about.

Some of the comments around this parts do me make me cringe as well, because it seems a lot people think that in order for someone to achieve those kinds of dreams -- in order to be daring, adventurous and leave a mark on the world-- doing those things must come easy for you. You must have a designed type of temper or personality in order to be happy doing that. And the thing is: for a lot of us, who've gone out there and dared to fullfill some of our crazy dreams, 90% of the time what you feel is fear and anxiety and self-doubt. The other 10%, those moments you realize you're living the life you wanna live that makes it all worth it and some.

Basically, the only thing you need in order to do what Rory is doing is the will for it.

Sorry, rant over.

And yes, I'm also projecting all over the place.

I get it. I wanted a life like that, too, only I didn't want to be in the spotlight. I was moved all over the place, too, so when I finally got some stability in my twenties, I was hesitant to throw myself into another uncertain situation. I lived in two different countries, moved back and forth, throughout my childhood. Born in England, moved to the US when I was a baby, back to England after several years, back to the US when I was 15. And then moved to the most boring town in Ohio (it was actually named that, in a poll). 

[Eeksquire]

Quote

It does seem a little bit...strange that two people who were in a commited relationship and almost got married to each other could pull off something like that.

Actually, it reminded me of Lorelai and Christopher's relationship, only this time with less baggage.  Like, "Hey, we enjoy each other, we're not in the same place in our lives, but we're in geographic proximity to each other periodically, so let's enjoy that time together and what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas." That kind of relationship doesn't bother me at all, so long as everyone is on board with it.

As for Paul, if Rory really cannot remember him without iPhone reminders, then I don't know how seriously anyone is meant to take the relationship.  It could very well be me projecting personal experience onto television*, but I don't think it's crazy to believe that a lot of the seriousness of that relationship is in Paul's mind and really has nothing to do with how Rory feels or how they actually function when they're together.  I cannot be the only person that dated someone that was WAY MORE INVESTED in trying to have a relationship with me than I was with them - I'm willing to grant that an observer that only saw their side of things would think I was a garbage human being for not treating them more considerately when on my side of the fence, I thought we were only casually seeing each other, not getting married.

*Ok, it definitely is, I started to write all kinds of way more personal details but then decided they were OT and deleted.

[cuddlingcrowley]

28 minutes ago, Eeksquire said:

Actually, it reminded me of Lorelai and Christopher's relationship, only this time with less baggage.  Like, "Hey, we enjoy each other, we're not in the same place in our lives, but we're in geographic proximity to each other periodically, so let's enjoy that time together and what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas." That kind of relationship doesn't bother me at all, so long as everyone is on board with it.

I think you're onto something there.

28 minutes ago, Eeksquire said:

As for Paul, if Rory really cannot remember him without iPhone reminders, then I don't know how seriously anyone is meant to take the relationship.  It could very well be me projecting personal experience onto television*, but I don't think it's crazy to believe that a lot of the seriousness of that relationship is in Paul's mind and really has nothing to do with how Rory feels or how they actually function when they're together.  I cannot be the only person that dated someone that was WAY MORE INVESTED in trying to have a relationship with me than I was with them - I'm willing to grant that an observer that only saw their side of things would think I was a garbage human being for not treating them more considerately when on my side of the fence, I thought we were only casually seeing each other, not getting married.

Thank you and goodnight! If I were to put any thought into Paul, I'd say he's a least a sadly self-deluled individual... and we've all met one of those, haven't we? People who seem to rather live in their own made-up reality of the relationship than the actual relationship. 

I'm very surprised some people see Rory with Logan and her cheating on Paul. From what we've seen, I'd be dowright shocked if she was in a exclusive relationship given her lifestyle and her interactions with Paul.

Edited November 26, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[cuddlingcrowley]

18 minutes ago, LeafontheWind said:

Not by name, but Logan does say he isn't trying to hide things from her when she asks to look in the closet. He says he doesn't move things around when she stops by to visit and she is clearly expecting to find some other girl's things in the apartment.

Sorry, that doesn't make any sense. Rory was wary of finding "other girls things" (that's how she puts it, pretty general and not to a especific girl) in Logan's apartment because it's Logan we're talking about and he likes to sleep around. It shows they're not-exclusive. 

Spoiler

Odette

must be a spoiler. Please be more careful, you guys. A lot of us are taking our time and watching one episode a day. Also:

Quote

A thread will be created for each episode.  Please keep all episode specific thoughts in that thread.  Also, please keep in mind not to spoil future episodes (for example, if you've watched all 4 new episodes, don't come into the first episode thread and talk about how it foreshadowed XYZ in episode 3.)

Edited November 26, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[LeafontheWind]

Just now, Taryn74 said:

Yeah my daughter was reading over my shoulder and just completely flipped out.  (I've seen most of Spring but she's only seen Winter so far.)  Now she's mad and is griping at me like it's my fault LOL.

Sorry! Tell her it was my fault! Give me all the blame!!! I am now quitting every thread but Fall and All Episodes.

[msani19]

Spoilers are tough when you've watched all 4 episodes and then comment back into the specific threads with the knowledge you have from the other episodes. I'm trying to keep that in mind and leaving my "complete" thoughts in the Fall episode thread. I'm trying, please yell if I don't keep to that!

[Mrs. DuRona]

Just want to say how much I love that Lane and family are living in Sookie's old house. :)

[bybrandy]

Why wasn't Luke at April's graduation?

[cuddlingcrowley]

8 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

Why wasn't Luke at April's graduation?

Why wasn't he at her highschool graduation and doesn't she have an even major one coming up (College)? Someone has a clue?

[Sweet Tee]

Quote

Thank you and goodnight! If I were to put any thought into Paul, I'd say he's a least a sadly self-deluled individual... and we've all met one of those, haven't we? People who seem to rather live in their own made-up reality of the relationship than the actual relationship. 

By Rory's own admission, they've been together for two years.  If he's delusional or making the relationship more than it is, then she needs to set him straight.  She clearly hasn't.  I have gone out with people who thought we were way more serious than I did and I quickly shut them down when I realized we were on different pages.  She knows they're on different pages and she can't be bothered to tell him so and cut ties with him completely.  The blame is on her as far as I'm concerned.

[kittykat]

Just finished Winter.  Overall it hit most of the buttons I was hoping.  Kirk's latest scheme (his presence at FND was a hoot).  Classic Taylor vs. Luke that actually went somewhere, Hep Alien, Michel married!  I know we didn't see all the townies but I'm glad of that because otherwise it wouldve seemed too scattered.

I don't like Rory stringing poor vanilla Paul around.  Poor guy though he does seem pretty unmemorable.  Totally called it was Logan she was crashing with in London, something tells me their "Vegas" arrangement doesn't end well...whatever gets her back to Jess, which I suspect is the endgame.

As for Lorelei vs. Emily welp that was everything expected in a classic Gilmore squabble.  I agree that Lorelei's behavior during the remembrances was abominable it didn't take Emily too long to snipe back in her classic vicious form.  Yes she's understandably hurt that she lost a husband.  But I didnt see Lor's "I lost a father" as selfish and making it about her.  She was simply relaying to Emily that she was as much in shock over Richard's death.  If anything Lorelai was more subdued than usual during the fight because she knew she was in the wrong but that didn't stop Emily from going for the jugular.

I'm glad they got Chris Eigeman for Jason albeit for a minute or two.  Despite being totally screwed over by Richard in S4 it was classy and in character for him to be there.

I'll admit when they said Sookie was working with Dan Barber at Blue Hill farm I wanted to go to there.

Im a little flummoxed at Paris's choice in career but of course she nailed it.  Great to see her and used just the right amount.

The lighter side:. I'm looking forward to seeing more of Rory with River Song she seems delightfully nutty.  I'll probably watch Spring tomorrow but I absolutely can't wait for the therapy session.  I love how Luke figured it out before Lorelai, the man has learned.

[HooHooHoo]

A few thoughts:

I love the magic of Stars Hollow winter. I live in the snow belt and hate cold/snow, but I would love it if it was like in SH. So, white and sparkly and must not be too cold b/c you can wear skirts, dresses, fashionable hats & boots. 

Rory's new voice is bugging me. I am sure she is just not putting on the baby voice she used before, but it seems weird. Not her fault. I wish her character had some redeeming qualities. She is still self centered and a special snowflake. I do admire that she has kept up relationships with high school and college friends and is working towards the career she wants and hasn't settled for a regular job.  Maybe her relationship with Paul was supposed to be a good thing?  Like, "look at wonderful Rory. So kind and thoughtful she doesn't want to hurt Paul's feelings and break up with him"??? I don't see it that way, but trying to figure out what ASP was going for  

I thought Logan needed it all or nothing with Rory?  He didn't want to continue to date long distance and wanted to settle down. I realize casual hook ups are not the same as dating, but still seems off. Rory being ok with it seems out of character, too. 

Loved the funeral!  Well, love doesn't sound right, but it was very well done and made me teary.  Loved that Emily called Lorelai out. I loved her shock at seeing Emily in jeans and a tee. 

Didn't care for the surrogacy storyline, but I get it as a midlife crisis kind of thing and it as a plot device to put a wedge in between L/L. I don't find it at all out of character that they didn't have a real conversation about it. Luke felt Lorelai out about the situation and she didn't seem in to it, so he dropped it. You don't have a baby unless both partners are committed to the idea. It is called maturity. Luke could let it go because he cares more about Lorelai's happiness. It wouldn't have played out that way though if Lorelai had been the one to want kids. 

I liked seeing the townies. I loved that Kirk was still Kirk, but it was a little much. Loved seeing Michel, but the Sookie explanation seemed lame. Don't remember any mention of Jackson or the kids. Band practice was lame, but I can appreciate them still keeping up with something they love. 

From my comments it seems like I enjoy it, but I did. I just liked the nostalgia of it all and I really do like Lorelai and Rory as characters even though I don't know why when I examine them too closely!

[cuddlingcrowley]

24 minutes ago, Sweet Tee said:

By Rory's own admission, they've been together for two years.  If he's delusional or making the relationship more than it is, then she needs to set him straight.  She clearly hasn't.  I have gone out with people who thought we were way more serious than I did and I quickly shut them down when I realized we were on different pages.  She knows they're on different pages and she can't be bothered to tell him so and cut ties with him completely.  The blame is on her as far as I'm concerned.

It's your prerrogative to think so, but nothing of what we've seen makes me thing it's that big of a deal that would warrant talk of "blame". Maybe we'll be getting more of Paul in the next episodes, maybe not, but from "Winter" alone I'm willing to give Rory the benefit of the doubt that she has made it clear they aren't exclusive.  Nothing about the scene between Logan and Rory made me think we were seeing anything antoward. YMMV.

 

Quote

 

Like, "look at wonderful Rory. So kind and thoughtful she doesn't want to hurt Paul's feelings and break up with him"??? I don't see it that way, but trying to figure out what ASP was going for  

 

IMHO, ASP was trying to show Rory who used to be a steady boyfriend, serial monogamist kind of gal is no more. She's not attached at all to the guy she's been dating and is cool with casual hook ups now.

Edited November 26, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[chessiegal]

I just watched it a 2nd time and liked it much better (not that I disliked it 1st time, just seemed a little off). My husband watched it with me, and I missed a lot of the humor the first time, but we both caught it this time.

I like the kitchen redo in their house - seems fitting how good a cook Luke is. Paul Anka is kind of jarring as the original is probably retired or in doggy heaven.

I loved the last scene with Lorelai realizing she's going to be in therapy with her mother and the fade away shot of Luke putting his arm around her as they walk away.

I also didn't get a lot of the pop culture references although I knew they were there. Am I that old?

Edited November 26, 2016 by chessiegal

[Guest]

I've had to hide a bunch of posts throughout today. I know it's exciting to talk about all the episodes, but put it where it belongs. 

Anyone who continues to post spoilers in violation of the policy that has been posted will find their posting privileges suspended, so please be careful.

[cuddlingcrowley]

16 minutes ago, HooHooHoo said:

I also didn't get a lot of the pop culture references although I knew they were there. Am I that old?

I also didn't, be it because they were said it too fast or because I simply didn't get it. But that's hardly unusual as far Gilmore Girls goes for me. I rarely understood them in the original run.

There was ONE really good that Lorelai made and it stood out to me. Towards the second half of the episode. It'll come to me.

All my love for Paris mentioning "Gone Girl", tho.

[msani19]

7 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

I also didn't get a lot of the pop culture references although I knew they were there. Am I that old?

That's funny! I wonder if people felt that way the first time the show aired? Back then, I knew all the references. I did get the ones they used now, but I spend much too much of my time in pop culture related sites. I hear "how the heck do you even know what that is" from friends.

I know about things, but I don't necessarily know what they even mean!

[cuddlingcrowley]

Favorite reference: "He's a superhero, but his power is no matter how much time you spend with him, you can't remember him. Kinda like every Marvel movie ever!"

Lorelai spoke to my soul with that one.

[Lady Calypso]

So, I finally watched the first two and am taking a small break before I watch the last two (although I accidentally clicked on the Fall episode thread without realizing so I might have caught an accidental spoiler....oops).

I thought this first episode was really just ok. There were moments that I enjoyed and moments that I didn't. I think the Paul subplot is one I definitely did not like. I know it's supposed to be funny, but I just felt bad for the guy. Nobody, not even his own girlfriend, remembers who he is. It actually led to my mom questioning if he was actually her boyfriend or if Rory was just using him as an affront to Logan. I had to ask her back if Paul knew about it if that was the case. I just couldn't stand Rory ignoring and forgetting about him. I think it was a very bad idea to introduce Paul. Also, Rory is about the same person as we knew her from her Logan years. She's cheating on Paul with Logan and is fine with it, and she doesn't really seem to have an idea of what she wants to do. I just found myself not liking Rory at all, and I expected myself to like her again. I just find it worse that she still has not backbone to break up with a guy, and she is a-ok with cheating with Logan and saying "what happens in Vegas/London stays in Vegas/London". And it actually turned me off of Logan, a character I previously loved.  I just hope now that this revival ends with Logan and Rory splitting up because I can't imagine now a world where they would be endgame. They both have now managed to bring out the worst in each other, but mostly in Rory, a character we're supposed to be rooting for.

And honestly, it seems like the perfect way to get these two to move on. It's actually setting up their possible break-up nicely. 

Ok, and there's the whole thing about her age. Am I wrong, or is Rory supposed to be 30 in 2016 and not 32 that they keep saying? Because she would have been 22 when she graduated college and if this is eight years later, then she should be right at 30. Right? Am I math'ing wrong?

Paris was really great. Unlike a lot of the other comedic scenes, hers were the only one to make me laugh out loud more than once. Ok, Kirk and his Ooober subplot was funny to a point. I just never thought Paris would be a fertility doctor and quite frankly, I don't know if I feel like it's the right career path for her. It's good for the subplot with Luke and Lorelai, but I don't think it fits Paris. Also, the fact that she needs a nanny and is divorcing from Doyle. I just thought that Paris would have a more time consuming job and that's why they need a nanny. But I guess Paris' history carried over into her life now. I'm just sad her and Doyle are splitting up, because I really enjoyed them as a couple.

Also, Paris' reaction to Hep Alien was hilarious. Zach did not age well. I also am partially surprised that they didn't have any more kids. 

There's always a bit too much Kirk and this was no different. Although I do appreciate that Kirk had some really funny moments. 

Everything with Emily and her loss was well done. I thought the scene of the service and Lorelai/Emily's fight really hit some good notes. It was raw and rough to watch. Although I could think of some great moments about Richard in regards to Lorelai. For example, the dollhouse that he brings her. It may not be a major moment, but it's recent enough where I can't imagine Lorelai would forget it. She could have said anything, but maybe that speaks to the entirety of their relationship, where Richard had been shown in the original series to be somewhat distant and distracted, even during Friday Night Dinners. 

So, Luke/Lorelai are not married. Ok, then. I'm glad Luke's happy, at least. He seems comfortable just being with Lorelai, so that's fine. I did get inwardly sad to see the pastry cabinet blocking the stairs to Luke's now old apartment. 

It was really good to see snippets of everyone's lives, including hearing about Michel being married. I can't imagine what guy would be drawn to someone as negative as Michel, but there is someone for everyone, it seems! I'm just happy that he's settled down, even if he's still pretty much the same!

I'll move on to Spring now and then get watching the last two before bed.