S01.E08: Trace Decay

[DarkRaichu]

10 minutes ago, beeble said:

If Steve Jobs had killed Steve Wozniak and built a robot to look like him and called him something other than "Woz," people would start to ask questions. 

It depends. Can bot!Woz ride one of those Segways ??? :P

[paigow]

Do guests only get fake concussions??? Or is Teddy gently head / face punching MiB?? 

[sneakyflute]

I did spot Maeve in the dancing scene, but I'm not sure if that has any significance. She doesn't share any scenes with William nor does she appear in the saloon where she's presently a madame. That gives more credence to the idea that William = MiB.

[DarkRaichu]

1 minute ago, paigow said:

Do guests only get fake concussions??? Or is Teddy gently head / face punching MiB?? 

The supercomputer in TEddy's brain calibrated the punches to miss any MiB's vital organ by a few milimeters :P

[arc]

17 minutes ago, beeble said:

I think I have face blindness because I did not recognize the blond whom the MIB assumed had been retired. Most pretty blonds on TV all become blurry to me  but seriously - I cannot keep bit players in my head. But if it is the same person, and she is has been repurposed from welcome lady to damsel in distress, why is she still in the video that Maeve saw? Is Maeve in an earlier timeline?

I'd just assume Angela has always been in the video and Westworld/Delos saw no reason to recast and reshoot just because she was no longer a greeter.

[DarkRaichu]

5 minutes ago, sneakyflute said:

I did spot Maeve in the dancing scene, but I'm not sure if that has any significance. She doesn't share any scenes with William nor does she appear in the saloon where she's presently a madame. That gives more credence to the idea that William = MiB.

It gave more credence to 2 timelines story mode.  It had nothing to do with speculation that William = MiB

[DarkRaichu]

5 minutes ago, arc said:

I'd just assume Angela has always been in the video and Westworld/Delos saw no reason to recast and reshoot just because she was no longer a greeter.

Point.  They were at least 1 year behind since Maeve was still frontier woman in that video. 

Lol, imagine the surprise (or delights) on guests' faces when they saw the frontier woman of their dreams "working" in Maraposa instead.  Good luck explaining that to the kids  :D :D :D 

Edited November 21, 2016 by DarkRaichu

[Goatherd]

2 hours ago, Lamima said:

Could Theresa, who was just killed last episode, be Logan's sister who was supposed to marry William???

 I considered this a few episodes ago, but:  Logan's sister "rode a few cowboys" when she visited the park. And Theresa said she had visited the park once, as a child. So....eww.  Also, Theresa is referred to as Danish, and Logan doesn't seem to be, so that would be a bit of a stretch to explain.

 

As for the "welcome" video, I don't see it as odd that it uses the greeter host who has been repurposed for an in-park role (likely very recently), any more than it's still showing Maeve as a farmer when she hasn't been in that role for a year.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

If The Gunslinger Can't Be Hurt, Then Westworld Needs To Get Rid Of Him

Mark Blankenship is not a crackpot; it just makes good dramatic sense.

[beeble]

Regarding the lady in the welcome video, if she had been the welcome lady 30 years ago, there would be subtle and not-so-subtle changes in hair styles and clothing as well as technology that the guests would spot immediately. Even though everybody is in our future (and disappointingly enough, nobody is wearing silver spandex) they will see the differences. Plus, it makes them look like cheapskates once the damsel in distress is seen. It would like Goofy having to show you where to park AND do his entertainment thing inside the Disney park.  The jig is up and some of the magic is lost.

 

Edited for embarrassingly bad spelling

Edited November 21, 2016 by beeble

[Shipper]

At this point I consider time-slippage/2 timelines to be confirmed.  The greeter-host was a greeter in Wiliam's timeline.  She is a Wyatt-plant/damsel in Ford's current plot line. She has clearly been reassigned as has Lawrence.  

 

William =MIB theory still has wiggle room (though I think it highly likely).  But there seems to be far too much circumstantial evidence + a supplied in-world explanation (re: the way host's memories work) + Delores outright saying she can no longer tell the difference for me to think that there aren't at least 2 time periods being shown.

 

 (I tend to agree with theories of there being at least 3 timelines --Delores in the old town where they're dancing and gun to her head/ Delores returning with William-quest / Delores traveling there now alone ).  

 

Re: greeter host 'blowing the magic'.... they have Maeve the motherly settler in the video as well and she is repurposed as a madam in Sweetwater.  Greeter Host is on the outside edges of the park beyond leveling up Pariah.  Maeve would be a greater chance of 'blowing the magic' than greeter-host.  

Edited November 21, 2016 by Shipper

[CouchTater]

5 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I'm still confused about Bernard killing Elsie? Wasn't she on the phone with him when she was grabbed from behind? I am disappointed that Theresa is gone for good. If the plot requires a duplicitous board member, I would much rather watch her than Charlotte. The writing for Charlotte is tedious and the actress (IMO) is not delivering. Waking Abernathy will hopefully be a bad decision for her.

She wasn't talking to Bernard when she was taken.

I wish there had been some obvious reason for why Charlotte chose Abernathy.  She walked past scores of hosts, and coincidentally settled on a host that the audience happens to already know?  Too easy/lazy.

But whatever.  I love this show! 

[jeansheridan]

24 minutes ago, Goatherd said:

 I considered this a few episodes ago, but:  Logan's sister "rode a few cowboys" when she visited the park. And Theresa said she had visited the park once, as a child. So....eww.  Also, Theresa is referred to as Danish, and Logan doesn't seem to be, so that would be a bit of a stretch to

Also MIB said his wife died from pills.  Clearly Teresa did not.  And if Teresa & MIB are both in the now loop, it really doesn't work.  But hey if they want Mads Mikkelsen to show up to collect her body, I am so okay with that.  Or Nikolas from GOT.  Crossover!

[kokapetl]

1 hour ago, Netfoot said:

Didn't Ed Harris say he's only been playing cowboys and Indians for only a few years, since his wife died and his daughter said she hated him?

[arc]

Nah, he said in the pilot that he's been coming here for thirty years. I highly doubt that meant "once a long time ago and then I took a thirty year break, then started again last year."

[iMonrey]

Quote

Speaking of Wyatt's men, are they supposed to be Minotaurs?

Or Vikings? What's with the weird headgear? This show seems to go for the cool visual at the expense of logic a little too often.

Thanks for the timeline explanation, Izeinwinter. Unfortunately, even if that's accurate, it makes the show a little too complicated. I think this show would be better if it was about 25% less ambitious. I think there's enough going on with Maeve, the techs, the political intrigue with Delos, the board, Ford, Bernard, Theresa, and Elsie without throwing in a bunch of different timelines, the MIB's search for the maze, and the side trip with Dolores and William. 

[Netfoot]

42 minutes ago, Shipper said:

Delores in the old town where they're dancing and gun to her head

Dolores approached the town, she wore khaki trousers & shirt, and had a hog-leg on her hip.  And the town was empty.

<blink!>

Dolores wears a blue dress and has no gun; there is a brown leather purse of some sort on her belt.  The town is full of people, some dancing.  (We get a brief glimpse of Maeve.) The church bells ring, the little girl asks her if she found what she was looking for.  We hear gunfire (little girl reacts to it), and see slaughter.  We hear the hammer cock, and see Dolores -- in the blue dress with a purse and no holster, bringing the pistol to her head.  (Where is it supposed to have come from?)

<blink!>

Dolores holds a pistol to her head.  William snatches it away.  Dolores is in trousers & shirt again.

[SoothingDave]

44 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Or Vikings? What's with the weird headgear? This show seems to go for the cool visual at the expense of logic a little too often.

 

The "headgear" is supposed to be terrifying.  

[Hanahope]

I feel like I might spend some time this weekend watching from the beginning again to look for evidence to confirm William = MIB (i.e. William's time line: no Maeve in Sweetwater; Teddy otherwise occupied, so Delores is alone when ranch attacked when she finds William; references to Delos taking over or increasing stake and Arnold's death.  MIB timeline: Dolores again alone so she heads off by herself to retrace journey with William; any interaction with Maeve as madam).  And try and get more of the timeline straight with Dolores' flashbacks.

Also whether there is sufficient information to confirm Bernard is Arnold, pay closer attention to the "talks" between Bernard and Dolores.  I could see where that could be the case.  I noticed that other than Ford and Bernard, none of the employees are older.  Even Theresa, who looked the oldest, had said she'd been there as a child (who probably wouldn't have known what Arnold looked like).  So I could see where Ford simply waited until no current employee/board member could recall Arnold's likeness, and then made Bernard.

I think Bernard killed Elsie because she was smart and figured out the hack.  If she figured that out, she'd figure out other things.

I was wondering if Charlotte could be Arnold/Bernard's daughter, perhaps one Ford didn't know about?  And that's another reason she's after Ford?

[maystone]

2 hours ago, CouchTater said:

I wish there had been some obvious reason for why Charlotte chose Abernathy.  She walked past scores of hosts, and coincidentally settled on a host that the audience happens to already know?  Too easy/lazy.

But whatever.  I love this show! 

We know Abernathy for a specific reason: He was the first host we'd met who started to recall his past build(s). And he was infected with the "virus" that seems to me to be the key to the recipient hosts starting to unlock their past stories in the park. "These violent delights have violent ends." He said it to Dolores, then she started having flashbacks; Dolores repeated it to Maeve, and then she started flashing back, too. Ford and Arnold obviously built voice codes into the robots' memory to get them to access various modes of behavior when the tech teams needed to do some work on them. It sounds like someone (I'm betting it was Arnold) added the "violent delights" code to activate their memories of previous lives. Maybe Charlotte picked Abernathy because she knows more than she's letting on.

[Ellaria]

3 hours ago, Netfoot said:

What part of bot-Bernard is Arnold?  Does bot-Bernard look like Arnold?  Surely somebody other than Ford is still alive to notice the similarity?  Does bot-Bernard think like Arnold?  If so, wouldn't he be just as deleterious  to Ford's plans as human-Arnold?

I agree. I'm still not aboard the Bernard = some form of Arnold train. The "big reveal" was that pensive, quiet, gentle Bernard was actually a host who kills on command. (That, in and of itself is quite frightening.) Why does he need to be Arnold as well?

[maystone]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Or Vikings? What's with the weird headgear? This show seems to go for the cool visual at the expense of logic a little too often.

They appear to me to be based on Hopi/Navajo Kachina spirit dolls. If you do an image search on them, you'll find a lot of similarities between them and Wyatt's groups' costumes. Also, Wyatt's philosophy reads like a corrupt version of the Kachina mythology.

[Jack Shaftoe]

So Ford created a robot creative enough to program emotions and then kept on working on other, far less advanced robots for decades? Really? 

Maeve can start programming herself and the others just like that? Really?

New Clementine is even prettier than the old one.

Man in Black is sooooo boring.

I miss Elsie.

What kind of a company puts explosives in every "toy" in a freaking theme park? 

[feverfew]

7 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

 

The thing is I think William/MIB is truly compassionate. But its compassion like a surgeon feels for a patient; cutting into people inflicts pain, but the pain is necessary for the surgeon to fix what's truly broken so that the patient can be free of what's ailing them.

From what he explained if he did visit the park between 30 years ago and when his wife died he was probably playing a white or, at worst, grey hat. It was only after his wife died and his daughter called him a monster who drove her to suicide that he decided to play a black hat for once to see how that made him feel.

That's when William/MIB saw Maeve break free of her normal loop for a brief time and he made the connection that pain and suffering is what allows the Hosts to "wake up." Its probably when he made the connection between what he lived through with Dolores and that's why he went back to Dolores in the present to inflict some type of pain upon her to help her wake up and start her present journey.

As the saying goes "Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind." One thing that strikes me is that its very likely William/MIB is part of the Delos board and so he would be aware of the reveries (i.e. allowing the hosts to remember events as fake dreams). Maybe he put two and two together and realized that by being cruel to certain hosts (note that Lawrence would also be an older model since he was there on the first play through 30 years ago) he could trigger the hosts remembering the pain of past loops and that the pain would help them to wake up.

If you're right (and I really hope your are - I simply cannot connect William-in-the-past with the MIB as he plays out now. Also, I need someone good in this story, because frankly, Ford scares the crap out of me) perhaps the reason Maeve, not Dolores was the MIB's trigger is because whatever happens at the end of their journey breaks William. If Dolores doesn't manage to break free, but instead reverts to her robot self (either by never finding the maze or outside forces like Ford 'opening her up' to show William that she's only a robot) I can see William getting completely dillusioned. That he continues to go to the park is like an addict chasing that elusive first high.

3 hours ago, Lamima said:

Also wondering if Charlotte is MiB's daughter.

Didn't MIB refer to his daughter as "Emily"? I mean, Charlotte Hale can be "Emily Chalotte Hale", but that would be cheating, I think...

[CouchTater]

5 minutes ago, maystone said:

We know Abernathy for a specific reason: He was the first host we'd met who started to recall his past build(s). And he was infected with the "virus" that seems to me to be the key to the recipient hosts starting to unlock their past stories in the park. "These violent delights have violent ends." He said it to Dolores, then she started having flashbacks; Dolores repeated it to Maeve, and then she started flashing back, too. Ford and Arnold obviously built voice codes into the robots' memory to get them to access various modes of behavior when the tech teams needed to do some work on them. It sounds like someone (I'm betting it was Arnold) added the "violent delights" code to activate their memories of previous lives. Maybe Charlotte picked Abernathy because she knows more than she's letting on.

Yes, you're right Maystone.  I'm very familiar with Abernathy's show history, and it did occur to me that Charlotte had some prior knowledge of Abernathy, as well.  I would like to have seen that connection.  I can only take so many mini mysteries before I get cranky.

[Netfoot]

2 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

What kind of a company puts explosives in every "toy" in a freaking theme park? 

It isn't likely to be a brick of C4.  Probably a piece the size of a match-head.  Only enough to destroy the spine & central nervous system.

[Lebanna]

Now that we know that the MIB has a daughter, I'm assuming that's the young woman who was in the photo that drove Abernathy crazy in the first episode. I think he planted it there on purpose. I wonder if he wanted Abernathy out of the park for a reason.

Why did Charlotte pick Abernathy? With a hall full of equally capable dead robots, she leads the idiot writer straight for him. As if she knew there was something special about him. There's an interesting difference in the treatment of the malfunctioning robots - Clementine mk1 we see being lobotomised, while Abernathy was just lined up in the basement and his body decommissioned. He was still completely compos mentis at the time, because Bernard whispers a message to him and he seems to understand.

Is this discrepancy in treatment because Clementine's body is to be repurposed with a different brain, while Abernathy was to be physically decommissioned? Or was Abernathy decommissioned at a different moment from Clementine? Or was Abernathy specifically put in the basement with his brain intact on purpose? Perhaps to be waiting there, for Charlotte. 

Edited November 21, 2016 by Lebanna

[Avaleigh]

5 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I feel like I might spend some time this weekend watching from the beginning again to look for evidence to confirm William = MIB (i.e. William's time line: no Maeve in Sweetwater; Teddy otherwise occupied, so Delores is alone when ranch attacked when she finds William; references to Delos taking over or increasing stake and Arnold's death.  MIB timeline: Dolores again alone so she heads off by herself to retrace journey with William; any interaction with Maeve as madam).  And try and get more of the timeline straight with Dolores' flashbacks.

Also whether there is sufficient information to confirm Bernard is Arnold, pay closer attention to the "talks" between Bernard and Dolores.  I could see where that could be the case.  I noticed that other than Ford and Bernard, none of the employees are older.  Even Theresa, who looked the oldest, had said she'd been there as a child (who probably wouldn't have known what Arnold looked like).  So I could see where Ford simply waited until no current employee/board member could recall Arnold's likeness, and then made Bernard.

I think Bernard killed Elsie because she was smart and figured out the hack.  If she figured that out, she'd figure out other things.

I was wondering if Charlotte could be Arnold/Bernard's daughter, perhaps one Ford didn't know about?  And that's another reason she's after Ford?

Regarding the bit in bold, I've considered this as well. I lean against it but considered the possibility that Charlotte inherited her power and position and that's the explanation for why such a young person is in the post. 

4 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I agree. I'm still not aboard the Bernard = some form of Arnold train. The "big reveal" was that pensive, quiet, gentle Bernard was actually a host who kills on command. (That, in and of itself is quite frightening.) Why does he need to be Arnold as well?

I'd say because it adds up with everything that we've been shown and know about the characters so far. Ford has created host versions of all of the important people in his life including a young version of himself, so to me it makes perfect sense that he'd create a host version of Arnold that would be in his control. He talks about Arnold more than any other character and still seems to need him on some level. 

Ford was very evasive with his answers regarding how much truth is in Bernard's backstory. I also think that there's a reason Ford has asked Bernard more than once if something is before his time because the way he asks, it's like he's testing Bernard to make sure that he tells the truth. 

I also think it was telling that when Theresa is looking at the drawings and that the one of Bernard is the only one whose name is covered. 

I fully expect us to learn who Arnold was and think there has to be a reason that we haven't seen his picture or seen him in a flashback. 

I also don't see why the "big reveal" about Bernard has to be limited to one thing. 

Edited November 22, 2016 by Avaleigh

[Redneck Bear]

Hi,

and I'm sorry for such a lame question, but ... why the heck keep Sylvester and Felix doing what Maeve tells them to? Are they only afraid for their jobs? Or so much scared of her? Or why? Perhaps I missed something as I'm not a native English speaker - but I really don't know ...

I can understand Felix being unable to "kill" Maeve but apart from that I'm quite clueless.

[Ellaria]

11 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

I'd day because it adds up with everything that we've been shown and know about the characters so far. Ford has created host versions of all of the important people in his life including a young version of himself, so to me it makes perfect sense that he'd create a host version of Arnold that would be in his control. He talks about Arnold more than any other character and still seems to need him on some level. 

Ford was very evasive with his answers regarding how much truth is in Bernard's backstory. I also think that there's a reason Ford has asked Bernard more than once if something is before his time because the way he asks, it's like he's testing Bernard to make sure that he tells the truth. 

I also think it was telling that when Theresa is looking at the drawings and that the one of Bernard is the only one whose name is covered. 

I fully expect us to learn who Arnold was and think there has to be a reason that we haven't seen his picture or seen him in a flashback. 

I also don't see why the "big reveal" about Bernard has to be limited to one thing. 

Thanks for a thoughtful response.

I agree that it fits with Ford's proclivities. And I also agree that we need to learn all about Arnold (the man, the myth and the legend); he seems crucial to this story. And the photo of Ford, his dad and the empty space was odd. Surely, something is missing...something that Bernard was not programmed to see.

So while it would fit with the clues laid out, I would not be thrilled with that outcome. I'm getting concerned with the intricacies of some of these mysteries. I've been burned so many times with so many other shows.

[blackwing]

Still really confused as to what is ultimately going on.  The William / Man in Black theory might still hold true.  But it doesn't settle me with fully, because didn't we see her remembering the old Man in Black after she had set off on her journey with William?  I could have sworn we saw her remembering that scene at least once.  If William and Dolores are supposed to be in the 30 years ago timeline, when the park was new, then how come she is remembering something that wouldn't have happened for years?  Also, in her flashback, she sees her hometown as it was when she lived there.  It must have been when the park was first opening because all of the hosts were getting dance lessons.  In the William/Dolores timeline we see the burned out church.  In the Teddy/Man in Black timeline, we also see the burned out church.  So is the park even older than 30 years?

I do admit that the host who greeted William when he first arrived and offered him clothes and what not being the same girl that Teddy and MIB run across, and MIB recognising her, does give a point in favour of the two timelines.

But it's all still so confusing to me.  Only two episodes left, hope they make the most in giving us some real answers.

[Hootis]

I wasn't sold on the love story between Bernard and Theresa they showed us tonight.  I mean, they were sleeping together, okay, I could believe that.

But the little lovey notes?  Bernard's declaration of love?  Did anything before this episode even HINT that she saw him as anything more than a convenience?  Or that she was capable of anything more?

On a completely unrelated note - where are these robots getting the programming for hand to hand combat?  Clementine didn't just haymaker that securitybot during the demonstration, she whupped his ass.  And Bernard seemed plenty sure of his one-punch kill on Theresa.

[arc]

20 minutes ago, Redneck Bear said:

and I'm sorry for such a lame question, but ... why the heck keep Sylvester and Felix doing what Maeve tells them to? Are they only afraid for their jobs? Or so much scared of her? Or why? Perhaps I missed something as I'm not a native English speaker - but I really don't know ...

I think it is mostly explained in the early stages as Maeve's been designed to be good at manipulation, plus a bit that Sylvester is dumb and Felix is dumb and naive. Now, it's their stupidity combined with a healthy fear of Maeve.

 

6 minutes ago, Hootis said:

On a completely unrelated note - where are these robots getting the programming for hand to hand combat?  Clementine didn't just haymaker that securitybot during the demonstration, she whupped his ass.  And Bernard seemed plenty sure of his one-punch kill on Theresa.

They'd need to be good at it for the Good Samaritan reflex to have any bite. Like, if hosts needed to prevent guests from killing each other, they would need some skill even if they're faster and stronger than humans. That doesn't quite explain why they'd have lethal moves programmed in instead of just submission moves, but... well, they can improvise dialogue, maybe they can improvise combat too.

[jbrecken]

It's a pity that they didn't give Lost a shout-out and make Ford's cover story be that Theresa fell down the stairs.

[Bill1978]

Well this was the first episode where I was left utterly confused with what had happened. Mainly because of the flashbacks being so tightly linked with the events of the present. Or maybe because I finally have to accept that there are multiple timelines occurring and not just simple flashbacks.

The main event that is doing my head in, is Dolores arriving to her abandoned home apparently alone, then flashbacking to the dancing time than flashforwarding to William which may or may not be in the present or the past, based upon the church.

If we take the path that Alone Dolores is retracing her steps in the Present storyline, from a story point of view that means she flashbacked very very far to Standard Flashback storyline, but then when she went to commit suicide she only flashforwarded to a moment still in the past Plot Twist Flashback Storyline. And then like Maeve, I stopped working cause my brain exploded with the confusion/realization of multiple timelines confirmed perhaps.

Thandie still has me spellbound with her performance. Though I will say I don't want Maeve all the time.

I liked the link of Maeve with MiB but in truth I still don't care about MiB's plot. And I had no idea that the damsel of the week was the original greeter fro William, until I came into this forum, so thanks people for that assist. I did let out a little 'Oh my God you killed Teddy, you bastard' cause I had forgotten that Teddy's loop is to face death everyday LOL

I'm hoping everything is revealed timeline wise by the end of the Season, not everything answered but a clarification on how many timelines there are and who is in which one. I am worried that with 2 episodes left I won't get that closer, and I'm not sure I can wait until 2018 for concrete clarification. Everything else I can wait for, but these timelines I need answers now.

[dgpolo]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Speaking of Wyatt's men, are they supposed to be Minotaurs?

That would be interesting, seeing as how the Minotaur lived in a labyrinth.

[DarkRaichu]

2 minutes ago, dgpolo said:

That would be interesting, seeing as how the Minotaur lived in a labyrinth.

Lol how did I not make that connection? +20 hearts for you

[dgpolo]

On 11/21/2016 at 8:54 AM, jojozigs said:

I do have the beginnings of a theory re: Maeve, I think she is purposely trying to get decommissioned by causing a ruckus in Sweetwater and going off loop/story with killing people and influencing/changing the other hosts behaviors.. She wants to get put in cold storage with the other decommissioned hosts and they become her army since she does have admin rights after all. (Perhaps the explosive charges in the spinal cords are deactivated once they get put in storage?)

I love this! I couldn't figure out how supersmart Maeve got so dumb in this episode. I kept thinking why are you doing that (changing the story, telling the bots to shoot each other etc.) their going to come to get you. But if that's what she was -trying- to do then it makes a lot more sense!

Also that was a very telling look between her and Hector?

Edited November 23, 2016 by dgpolo
get the name right

[Gobi]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Still really confused as to what is ultimately going on.  The William / Man in Black theory might still hold true.  But it doesn't settle me with fully, because didn't we see her remembering the old Man in Black after she had set off on her journey with William?  I could have sworn we saw her remembering that scene at least once.  If William and Dolores are supposed to be in the 30 years ago timeline, when the park was new, then how come she is remembering something that wouldn't have happened for years?  Also, in her flashback, she sees her hometown as it was when she lived there.  It must have been when the park was first opening because all of the hosts were getting dance lessons.  In the William/Dolores timeline we see the burned out church.  In the Teddy/Man in Black timeline, we also see the burned out church.  So is the park even older than 30 years?

I do admit that the host who greeted William when he first arrived and offered him clothes and what not being the same girl that Teddy and MIB run across, and MIB recognising her, does give a point in favour of the two timelines.

But it's all still so confusing to me.  Only two episodes left, hope they make the most in giving us some real answers.

The timeline for the church/town is a bit confusing:

The town is the original Westworld area, where the hosts were trained.

The massacre (by Arnold?) occurs.

The church/town is burned and buried.

For most of the present, it remains buried, but we were told in this episode that Ford had rebuilt it for his new storyline.

In this episode, if we accept the multiple timelines theories, Dolores saw it as it was originally, as it was when she visited it with William (buried), then after it was rebuilt (note that in her first view of the rebuilt town, there were no hosts present; the hosts appeared when she remembered the massacre).

[paigow]

32 minutes ago, dgpolo said:

That would be interesting, seeing as how the Minotaur lived in a labyrinth.

Flashback: "Your Highness" [Natalie Portman & James Franco] --> Best Minotaur sight gag ever! 

Edited November 21, 2016 by paigow

[waterytart]

16 hours ago, Goatherd said:

Another thing we got confirmation of is that Maeve is an "original" -- she was present for pre-park dance instructions. It seemed obvious from her skills that she's an Arnold Series 1, but it's nice to have her age affirmed.

I thought that all the original models were mechanical, but Maeve definitely isn't. Or did I miss something?

[Gobi]

10 minutes ago, waterytart said:

I thought that all the original models were mechanical, but Maeve definitely isn't. Or did I miss something?

The originals were mechanical, but they have been upgraded to largely biological models.

[waterytart]

1 minute ago, Gobi said:

The originals were mechanical, but they have been upgraded to largely biological models.

I did miss something. Thank you!

[arc]

13 minutes ago, Gobi said:

The originals were mechanical, but they have been upgraded to largely biological models.

Y'know, I thought so, and Stubbs said as much when he said Dolores had been rebuilt so much she's practically brand new. But then again, Ford said something about how the original models were, if anything, more graceful than the new ones. Presumably more expensive, though. I suppose given what hosts are subjected to by guests, those elegant mechanics would have been busted to hell by now.

[feverfew]

1 hour ago, arc said:

Y'know, I thought so, and Stubbs said as much when he said Dolores had been rebuilt so much she's practically brand new. But then again, Ford said something about how the original models were, if anything, more graceful than the new ones. Presumably more expensive, though. I suppose given what hosts are subjected to by guests, those elegant mechanics would have been busted to hell by now.

Perhaps Ford meant the original models' coding? As in their coding (by Arnold) were more gracefully done?

[mascan42]

It's starting to look less and less like William and the MiB are the same person. We already know Ford's storyline takes place at the same time as the MiB's. And we just saw the buried town in William's storyline that Ford is getting ready to dig up in his. So either the town was buried very early in the park's existence, or the two storylines are concurrent.

[dr pepper]

This week on "Is This a Loop? Nope, A Frayed Knot", Dolores speaks for us all when she asks, plaintively "*When* are we?".

[Gobi]

9 minutes ago, mascan42 said:

It's starting to look less and less like William and the MiB are the same person. We already know Ford's storyline takes place at the same time as the MiB's. And we just saw the buried town in William's storyline that Ford is getting ready to dig up in his. So either the town was buried very early in the park's existence, or the two storylines are concurrent.

The town has been rebuilt. From the scene between Charlotte and Sizemore:

Charlotte: "He [Ford] dug up some old town on the fringes of the park..."

[dr pepper]

It appears that the two time periods theory is sort of right, but mostly wrong. Robots gets reassigned a lot more quickly then we had thought so their flashbacks are only measured in months. Ed Harris has been coming for 30 years, but he only became the Man in Black recently.

[dr pepper]

That is, assuming he really has been coming for 30 years. Because, it appears that he too may just be operating on a fictitious backstory.

It is now time to let go of the question of who turns out to really be a robot and start asking who *couldn't* possibly be a robot. And Ford is no longer in the No column. For all his certainties we see that the Arnold level of programming doesn't just go deeper than he can access, he seems incapable of speculating about it.