S01.E05: Smoke and Mirrors

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Elizabeth rejects protocol by appointing Philip to coordinate her coronation, but his ideas create conflict. The Duke of Windsor returns to London.

 

[SeanC]

One gets the sense that the Duke of Windsor would have a highly quotable Twitter feed if he was alive today.  Really great writing choice to bring him into discussions around the coronation, as well, since it's logical he'd be so conflicted about the whole process.  He can mock the formalities, but at the same time, all the meaning people have imbued in them has power even with him.  It's the road he didn't take.

The opening with the Duke and Duchess somewhat ineptly trying to give the magazine reporter what she's interested in (such as the Duke's hilariously lame fashion advice), as well as all the discussion about changes Philip wants to make for the coronation, both hit at the same point:  the gradual transformation of the monarchy into modern celebrities.

Also, in respect of the coronation, it's interesting to see all the talk about the ecclesiastical elements.  One suspects that this whole part is going to be altered significantly whenever they next hold one of these (I believe Charles has already indicated some thoughts in that regard).  Also, a minor moment I liked, the Archbishop of Canterbury's awkwardness about dabbing oil on the Queen's upper chest.

Five episodes in, there's been surprisingly little of the Queen Mother.  I suspect that's in part because Morgan wants to focus the familial advice segments on George VI and Queen Mary, both of whom die fairly quickly, whereas the Queen Mum is going to hang around for another half-century.

George VI needed help moving under the weight of the coronation regalia, in real life.

[Bama]

"Shall we fuck?" is the most British come-on I've ever heard.

[zxy556575]

10 hours ago, Bama said:

"Shall we fuck?" is the most British come-on I've ever heard.

I can only imagine so much time was devoted to the snitty tantrums and selfish venality of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor because letters and other source material was available. Otherwise he was kind of an ancillary figure to Elizabeth as queen (although by many accounts she really did blame him for her father's early death). I think the show intended him to be shown as petulant and delusional, but I found it a bit tiresome to watch.

[Arynm]

the Duke of Windsor had a very high opinion of himself didn't he. He has a lot of nerve thinking they are greedy and grasping, when he is the one sponging off the relatives. I actually thought Cookie was a cute nickname until he explained why they called her that. I looked it up and his measly 10,000 pound allowance is about 1 million pounds today. Poor thing!! However could they manage on such a pittance?

I do find some consolation in the fact that letters found relatively recently show that Wallis wasn't nearly as fond of him as he was of her, she mostly looked at the marriage as a job,and a tiring babysitting type job at that. I think David did the entire world a favor when he abdicated, even though I agree with the ladies in that he most likely hastened the death of George VI. Poor man

[zxy556575]

I was glad to see that Elizabeth made Philip kneel to her. I'll accept the karmic deductions for my pettiness.

Elizabeth either needs to (1) stop making hasty promises she can't keep, or (2) stop letting others talk her out of following through.

[millk]

The Coronation is one of my most favourite historical events.  I have it on super 8, vhs and DVD and have watched it many times.  The real Elizabeth was transcendent on the day. (Clair Foy is beautiful but reminds me of Reese Witherspoon and it takes me out of it) 

[SeanC]

6 hours ago, Arynm said:

the Duke of Windsor had a very high opinion of himself didn't he. He has a lot of nerve thinking they are greedy and grasping, when he is the one sponging off the relatives.

While it's never terribly flattering to be worrying about money while living as he does, I would say he's on solid enough ground when he says that if the family wants him to forego commercial opportunities (which they did; nobody at Buckingham Palace wanted a former sovereign shilling for Coca Cola), trying to weasel out of paying his allowance is unfair.

[VCRTracking]

It was the Queen Mother's grief that was motivating her. She would always blame him for her husband's relatively short life. I'm not going to blame it all on the job though when King George VI was smoking constantly.

Phillip looks bad in this episode but as his grandsons William and Harry noted in the "Elizabeth at 90" documentary when they were watching color film of the coronation, he actually looked more nervous rather than seething with resentment.

Edited November 5, 2016 by VCRTracking

[dubbel zout]

On 11/4/2016 at 5:34 PM, SeanC said:

It's the road he didn't take.

The scenes of him hosting a coronation party and alternating mocking and being enthralled by the ritual were so well done. And the scene of him playing the bagpipes with tears running down his face was very affecting. He's an exasperating figure for a lot of reasons, but I can't help feel a bit sorry for him there. It had to be hard to see the road not taken.

19 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

It was the Queen Mother's grief that was motivating her. She would always blame him for her husband's relatively short life. I'm not going to blame it all on the job though when King George VI was smoking constantly.

Seriously. 

[PRgal]

I'm LOL-ing at Philip's attitude on being second after the Queen - his mini-tantrum about being asked to redecorate Clarence House.  My response?  SO WHAT??? :P

[Archery]

21 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

It was the Queen Mother's grief that was motivating her. She would always blame him for her husband's relatively short life. I'm not going to blame it all on the job though when King George VI was smoking constantly.

Being thrust into the job had more to do with it than one might think. George VI had that infamous stammer, and felt incredible pressure to control it, especially once he became king and regularly communicated with the realm by radio. Part of the therapy was smoking, to relax the throat muscles (see The King's Speech). So whether it was the all-consuming stress of leading the country in the run up to Hitler and through the horror of daily bombings in WWII, or the pressure to overcome a weakness that would never have mattered for a spare, yes, having to ascend unexpectedly to the throne killed him.  He was only 56 years old.

[VCRTracking]

As bad as I feel for Bertie, he ended up being the better man for the job by far for the times. I was moved by royal secretary Tommy Lascalles saying he was a "hero" to the Duke of Windsor's face and the archbishop agreeing. That was just a great scene all around.

Edited November 6, 2016 by VCRTracking

[Lillybee]

Had the Duke of Windsor not resigned, I wonder how WWII would have played out since he was very pro-Nazi.

[dubbel zout]

I think some of the duke's public gestures toward the Germans were a way to stick it to his brother. He could be extremely petty about perceived slights and snubs. This is not to say his views weren't dangerous.

The Nazis fed his ego and obliquely encouraged him to set up a rival court to George's. This and other things were what led the British government to send him packing to the Bahamas as governor general.

Edited November 7, 2016 by dubbel zout

[tennisgurl]

All things considered, it seems like it was for the best that Bertie took over the throne from the Duke of Windsor for everyone but poor Bertie. Maybe the job wasn't the only thing that killed him, but it couldn't have helped his health at all. And despite the fact that he was a shy stutterer who never seemed to really want the spotlight, he is still fondly remembered as a really solid king and decent person. Whereas David, the party boy with the ego twice the size of the UK, is mostly remembered as a Nazi loving dickhead. Its like the scene where Tommy and the arch bishop call Bertie a hero, and David practically flinched. This was an interesting episode for him. I still think the guy is an asshole, but he seemed more human this episode. I actually felt for him when he was alone playing his bagpipes.  

[Calamity Jane]

I've only known two people who played the bagpipes, but they both walked constantly while doing so.  The dad of a friend of mine played marching around and around the dining table, and the other guy practiced behind a hedge at university, so you just saw the top part of the pipes going around the bell tower. Is this the "normal" way to play when not in performance?  I wondered if Windsor might have been more likely to be walking while playing.  It was a moving moment and made me feel a bit for the guy, despite how much I loathe him in general.  One can't help wondering how the Blitz would have gone with him as king instead of George VI.  He was a sympathizer (wasn't the mother too?), but I'm sure the angle of possibly getting back the crown increased those feelings.  If he had already been on the throne, how would he have behaved?  Fascinating to think about.  

[Primetimer]

Elizabeth feels the full weight of her duty in S01.E05. Also Philip finally does something right.

View the full article

[Daisy]

Phillip is coming across as a big fat baby.  If I'm supposed to feel sorry for David - I don't.  Honestly - I think the country benefited a lot by David meeting Wallis. (I'm surprised there isnt/hasn't been a movie (recently) about that. like most times we just focus on Bertie's side of the story, but nothing how those two fell in love, and how he actually gave up the throne. (then whined about it for the rest of his life it seems)...well i think i just answered my question ;)

[Bec]

If you go on the Windsor episode thread, people mentioned a lot of movies and shows about David and Wallis that I had no idea existed.

Hee, I think David is a petulant child, too. I pretty much roll my eyes every time he starts in again about how he has the best love ever and no one else has any better love, dammit! But the actor is killing it, his inner conflict is so fascinating. The way his face changes when no one is looking, just excellent work. It was almost kind of hilarious, at the Coronation TV party, when someone was like "you gave up the chance to be a god" and he started to say "I have something greater..." but then couldn't quite finish the sentence. I like to imagine even he was throwing up in his mouth a little at that point.

I like how the actress who plays Wallis played it, too. She plays it like she's humoring him. Not like a woman who is actually in love. I would imagine having him keep harping on all the time about how his family disrespects her and how they wouldn't give her a royal highness title is far more annoying to her than anything his family does. He's not trying to rub it in her face, but that's the effect it ends up having when nobody else is going on and on about it but him.

Case in point: instead of letting that reporter mistakenly calling her "royal highness" pass without comment, he just had to prolong her humiliation by going on a whole spiel about it being a sore point.

[Daisy]

Right. And she's like. (sigh) ..... "For love.." I could imagine their arguments. "If you say you gave everything for love one more time...." 

[GaT]

1 hour ago, Bec said:

I like how the actress who plays Wallis played it, too. She plays it like she's humoring him. Not like a woman who is actually in love. I would imagine having him keep harping on all the time about how his family disrespects her and how they wouldn't give her a royal highness title is far more annoying to her than anything his family does. He's not trying to rub it in her face, but that's the effect it ends up having when nobody else is going on and on about it but him.

I think that's what their real life relationship was like, he was very dependent on her & she was the dominant partner.

[dubbel zout]

There's a theory that Wallis was kind of trapped into marrying the duke, in that their relationship got to the point where they had to marry or break up, and the duke was so besotted with her that everyone was genuinely afraid of what he might do if the marriage didn't happen.

See That Woman, by Anne Sebba, for more.

[Clanstarling]

On 11/11/2016 at 10:24 PM, Bec said:

If you go on the Windsor episode thread, people mentioned a lot of movies and shows about David and Wallis that I had no idea existed.

Hee, I think David is a petulant child, too. I pretty much roll my eyes every time he starts in again about how he has the best love ever and no one else has any better love, dammit! But the actor is killing it, his inner conflict is so fascinating. The way his face changes when no one is looking, just excellent work. It was almost kind of hilarious, at the Coronation TV party, when someone was like "you gave up the chance to be a god" and he started to say "I have something greater..." but then couldn't quite finish the sentence. I like to imagine even he was throwing up in his mouth a little at that point.

I like how the actress who plays Wallis played it, too. She plays it like she's humoring him. Not like a woman who is actually in love. I would imagine having him keep harping on all the time about how his family disrespects her and how they wouldn't give her a royal highness title is far more annoying to her than anything his family does. He's not trying to rub it in her face, but that's the effect it ends up having when nobody else is going on and on about it but him.

Case in point: instead of letting that reporter mistakenly calling her "royal highness" pass without comment, he just had to prolong her humiliation by going on a whole spiel about it being a sore point.

Agreed. I think he's one of the more interesting characters, because despite being a resentful and pissy little whiner, he's also conflicted by his choices and you can almost (almost being the operative word) sympathize. I don't know a lot about what went down when he abdicated, but what little I remember is that Wallis was the predominate excuse, but not the whole story. I think, though may be wrong, that his was not the "path not taken" but the "path blocked by the powers that be" and then spun into his fairy tale of love. Those of you who know more, let me know if this is an incorrect perception.

Also, regarding the Queen Mum's hatred of him, I think blaming him for George's death is a big part of it, but I have a feeling she would have pretty much hated him from the get-go, given his penchant for nasty nicknames and general demeanor.

I find Phillip tiresome. It's not like say, Queen Mum, who married a man who was unlikely to be crowned, and then Edward abdicated. He knew from the get-go, and actively pursued Elizabeth when she was very young. If it bothers your ego to walk a few steps behind, or kneel to your Queen, then don't marry the woman who would be Queen.

On a side note -there's a hysterical headline on one of the rags in the checkout counter this week - about Prince Charles staging a coup, kicking the Queen out of England and "stripping William and Kate of their powers." My thought was, "what powers?"

[PRgal]

5 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

 

I find Phillip tiresome. It's not like say, Queen Mum, who married a man who was unlikely to be crowned, and then Edward abdicated. He knew from the get-go, and actively pursued Elizabeth when she was very young. If it bothers your ego to walk a few steps behind, or kneel to your Queen, then don't marry the woman who would be Queen.

 

Yeah but Philip assumed he had a few years to just be a husband to Elizabeth and do more "normal 20-something couple stuff" before Elizabeth becomes queen.  Elizabeth thought that was the case too.  It's just that she was more prepared. 

[Daisy]

26 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Yeah but Philip assumed he had a few years to just be a husband to Elizabeth and do more "normal 20-something couple stuff" before Elizabeth becomes queen.  Elizabeth thought that was the case too.  It's just that she was more prepared. 

But would that have really changed his attitude? 20 something Queen Elizabeth or 40 Something Queen Elizabeth, he still has to bow a knee, and walk behind her and i find that's what's ticking him off. the fact they aren't/can't be equal (anymore) and i'm thinking what exactly did you think was gonna happen?

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

Yeah but Philip assumed he had a few years to just be a husband to Elizabeth and do more "normal 20-something couple stuff" before Elizabeth becomes queen.  Elizabeth thought that was the case too.  It's just that she was more prepared. 

It seems to me that his idea of "normal" was being the dominant spouse - which to be fair would have been the norm in the 50's - but which, however, would not be the norm, ever, upon marrying a woman who would be Queen. In terms of royalty, she was his superior long before they married.

My take is that he's not grousing about spending time with her, about going on vacation, or having a roll in the hay when they want. He's grousing about her doing her job ("queening" - how condescending is that?), and about his being expected to kneel to his sovereign (who happens to be his wife, which, again, is something he knew from the get-go).

He's kind of the opposite of Edward - he married up (which created a lot of controversy) and is grousing about his rather sweet lot, and Edward married down (also controversial) and is grousing about his reduced, but still pretty decent, lot. But both are pretty whiny about the results of decisions they made themselves.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Clanstarling

[PRgal]

47 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

It seems to me that his idea of "normal" was being the dominant spouse - which to be fair would have been the norm in the 50's - but which, however, would not be the norm, ever, upon marrying a woman who would be Queen. In terms of royalty, she was his superior long before they married.

My take is that he's not grousing about spending time with her, about going on vacation, or having a roll in the hay when they want. He's grousing about her doing her job ("queening" - how condescending is that?), and about his being expected to kneel to his sovereign (who happens to be his wife, which, again, is something he knew from the get-go).

He's kind of the opposite of Edward - he married up (which created a lot of controversy) and is grousing about his rather sweet lot, and Edward married down (also controversial) and is grousing about his reduced, but still pretty decent, lot. But both are pretty whiny about the results of decisions they made themselves.

Any guy who married Elizabeth would have married up.

[dubbel zout]

15 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Any guy who married Elizabeth would have married up.

Yep. She couldn't marry a foreign crown prince for constitutional reasons, so there was no other choice.

[Clanstarling]

5 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Any guy who married Elizabeth would have married up.

True enough. And I would expect any guy who did to be aware and accepting of his role.

[ProudMary]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

It seems to me that his idea of "normal" was being the dominant spouse - which to be fair would have been the norm in the 50's - but which, however, would not be the norm, ever, upon marrying a woman who would be Queen. In terms of royalty, she was his superior long before they married.

My take is that he's not grousing about spending time with her, about going on vacation, or having a roll in the hay when they want. He's grousing about her doing her job ("queening" - how condescending is that?), and about his being expected to kneel to his sovereign (who happens to be his wife, which, again, is something he knew from the get-go).

He's kind of the opposite of Edward - he married up (which created a lot of controversy) and is grousing about his rather sweet lot, and Edward married down (also controversial) and is grousing about his reduced, but still pretty decent, lot. But both are pretty whiny about the results of decisions they made themselves.

@Clanstarling  I'm not specifically directing this at you in expectation of an answer, but quoting your post seemed the easiest way to bring up my question.  
Is it always customary at a coronation for the spouse of the monarch to be required to kneel before them?  Why would everyone present in the Abbey not be required to kneel before the King/Queen at that point?  Perhaps that is the case but it did not appear to be shown.  Did Queen Elizabeth (the Queen Mother) have to kneel before George VI at his coronation or is this something that is reserved only for husbands to do at the feet of their Queen wife to show their subservience to a female monarch?  (Bad grammar but I think you'll get my gist.)

[MissLucas]

17 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

Is it always customary at a coronation for the spouse of the monarch to be required to kneel before them?  Why would everyone present in the Abbey not be required to kneel before the King/Queen at that point?  Perhaps that is the case but it did not appear to be shown.  Did Queen Elizabeth (the Queen Mother) have to kneel before George VI at his coronation or is this something that is reserved only for husbands to do at the feet of their Queen wife to show their subservience to a female monarch?  (Bad grammar but I think you'll get my gist.)

Different situation as Elizabeth was anointed and crowned to become Queen consort that day. Footage from the coronation of George VI shows the first (non clergy) person to kneel before him was the Duke of Gloucester (as first prince royal) followed by the Duke of Kent (followed by various peers). Then Elisabeth gets anointed and crowned as Queen consort. As she walks to her throne  she does a curtsy in front of the king.

[Clanstarling]

26 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Different situation as Elizabeth was anointed and crowned to become Queen consort that day. Footage from the coronation of George VI shows the first (non clergy) person to kneel before him was the Duke of Gloucester (as first prince royal) followed by the Duke of Kent (followed by various peers). Then Elisabeth gets anointed and crowned as Queen consort. As she walks to her throne  she does a curtsy in front of the king.

That is illuminating, thank you.

@ProudMary, I'm not sure, it seemed to me that it was the expected protocol. Their marriage adds a bit of a twist to it, but from what I understand and have read, it is expected for men to kneel before and swear fealty to their monarchs.  Despite the reign of assorted queens, traditional rituals I've read about seem to require the male aristocracy to make a show of their subservience and faithfulness.

For a woman, I'm guessing a curtsy would perform the same function as kneeling. Again, I'm no expert, but I wouldn't expect largely male oriented regal traditions to require women to swear fealty as they wouldn't be considered a particular threat to the monarch (however wrong that has been proven time and again).

[MissLucas]

First of all - I've never read anything about Philip throwing a hissy fit about having to kneel in front of his wife before 'The Crown' came along. As certain disputes between the two have become public knowledge over the decades I venture to say that this bit is fictional.

And even if he had to kneel Philip received special treatment because he was paying homage before any of the royal princes and peers (some of whom sure were thinking they should have had precedence).  I wonder if there's a precedent. Victoria and Mary was already queens when they married and I could not find out how things were handled when Anne was crowned. No need to go further back as Matilda was never crowned.

[Clanstarling]

22 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

First of all - I've never read anything about Philip throwing a hissy fit about having to kneel in front of his wife before 'The Crown' came along. As certain disputes between the two have become public knowledge over the decades I venture to say that this bit is fictional.

And even if he had to kneel Philip received special treatment because he was paying homage before any of the royal princes and peers (some of whom sure were thinking they should have had precedence).  I wonder if there's a precedent. Victoria and Mary was already queens when they married and I could not find out how things were handled when Anne was crowned. No need to go further back as Matilda was never crowned.

Yes, it is hard to navigate between what's real and what's fictionalized in this show. My complaints are with the Phillip as portrayed - I haven't a clue what the real man is like.

[WatchrTina]

Quote

Why would everyone present in the Abbey not be required to kneel before the King/Queen at that point?  Perhaps that is the case but it did not appear to be shown.

I read the Wikipedia article on the coronation of QEII and yes, all of the peers "bent the knee" during the ceremony.

Quote

With the benediction read, Elizabeth moved to the throne and the Archbishop of Canterbury and all the Bishops offered to her their fealty, after which, while the choir sang, the peers of the United Kingdom—led by the royal peers: the Queen's husband; Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester; and Prince Edward, Duke of Kent—each proceeded, in order of precedence, to pay their personal homage and allegiance to Elizabeth. When the last baron had completed this task, the assembly shouted "God save Queen Elizabeth. Long live Queen Elizabeth. May the Queen live for ever!"

[roamyn]

I thought Phillip made some absolutely valud points regarding bringing in the coronation ceremony to the "people".

But QEII was right that Phillip was kneeling before the crown not his wife.  The crown is always alive.  Its representation passes automatically from person to person.

But it still must've been hard for such a prideful man.  Even though he had the honor of kneeling and showing his fealty before the Duke of Kent (was her uncle Gloucester still alive, yet?), Princess Margaret and the other Dukes of the realm, who by rights have precedence over the DoE at that time.

Edited November 17, 2016 by roamyn

[Badger]

Yes, he was still alive.  He didn't die until 1974 

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, roamyn said:

But it still must've been hard for such a prideful man.

Suck it up, buttercup. You knew who you were marrying.

[Jolie]

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Suck it up, buttercup. You knew who you were marrying.

I think in this case, it's a bit like having kids. You really don't know what you're in for until you're living it. 

Outside of the kneeling bit which smacks of made-for-TV drama,  I have some sympathy for Phillip because men at that time weren't brought up to be equal let alone subservient to a woman. Must be hard to distinguish wife from queen sometimes. Actually, I now have a lot more sympathy for everyone in the royal family. I would hate to be told how act, what to think, and what to do on a daily basis. I'm not sure the job is worth the perks. :)

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, Jolie said:

I think in this case, it's a bit like having kids. You really don't know what you're in for until you're living it. 

I agree with this up to a point. The loss of privacy and the way the job takes over can't be anticipated. But Philip feeling pissy because he can't read the documents in Elizabeth's red boxes and he's subordinate to the sovereign? No sympathy.

[ciprus]

The whole composition of the coronation was beautiful. I can't get over how well done this show is in therms of editing and framing the important scenes in the most effective way.

Philip is annoying much of the time. The he is almost seething with bitterness at times. It makes me feel sorry for QE, she is stuck between Churchill and the crown pulling one way and Philip the other. I hope she works up some more authority towards both of them soon enough!

The portrayal of David isn't exactly flattering either, he is shown to be extremely two-faced. And I do not get the feeling that he has the love story of all time with Wallis as he tells himself and everyone else. It's like he's telling himself he did it for love and it was worth it, but was it? I do think him abdicating from the throne was for the greater good though, Excellent acting, either way.

[Athena]

On 2016-11-13 at 10:03 AM, Clanstarling said:

Agreed. I think he's one of the more interesting characters, because despite being a resentful and pissy little whiner, he's also conflicted by his choices and you can almost (almost being the operative word) sympathize. I don't know a lot about what went down when he abdicated, but what little I remember is that Wallis was the predominate excuse, but not the whole story. I think, though may be wrong, that his was not the "path not taken" but the "path blocked by the powers that be" and then spun into his fairy tale of love. Those of you who know more, let me know if this is an incorrect perception.

The actor is good in the role and his tears at the end moved me momentarily.

I will say that based on some of my research (and I haven't read whole books on it, but more secondary resources), Edward was controversial. In a few instances, this made him a good "populist" King and figure. It's why many people adored him. On the other hand, he also seemed selfish, obstinate, and unwilling to compromise with the establishment. Wallis was one example. He was vocal and opposed sanctions against Italy after they invaded Ethiopia. Wallis's connection and David's sympathies to the Nazis were another big issue. As King, David was too much David and not enough King Edward VIII. It is hard to balance that role because the Crown is not one individual, but David could not continue to be who he was. He also seemed not keen on the idea of actually being the Crown - which to be fair is not easy - so he probably did think that by abdicating, he'd get a good allowance and life without having to do the "job". This is a man who also got what he wanted up until one certain point. Then he basically griped about how he didn't get Wallis and the Crown for the rest of his life.

I do believe the whole love thing or what David considers his great love for Wallis. I think she was more indifferent and realized that she couldn't cast him off like her other husbands. I think they cared about each other, but they loved an indolent and shallow life. Reading his letters and what he said doesn't make me sympathize with the man though. 

[Eyes High]

On 11/6/2016 at 3:54 PM, VCRTracking said:

As bad as I feel for Bertie, he ended up being the better man for the job by far for the times. I was moved by royal secretary Tommy Lascalles saying he was a "hero" to the Duke of Windsor's face and the archbishop agreeing. That was just a great scene all around.

 

On 11/7/2016 at 5:24 PM, tennisgurl said:

Its like the scene where Tommy and the arch bishop call Bertie a hero, and David practically flinched.

Pip Torrens really steals the show as icy, terrifying pillar of rectitude Tommy Lascelles. A Twitter poster described his Tommy as a great portrait of "upright masculine bitchiness," and I think that sounds exactly right. I loved his complete and utter lack of patience for Edward's weakness and self-pity. This was incredible:

Edward: Surely, the sophistication of a society can be measured by its tolerance and its ability to forgive.

Tommy: Its weakness, too. Sometimes, lines just need to be drawn.

Edward: You know, Tommy, you're an embarrassment to the institution you serve and to the country that institution serves in turn.

Tommy: And I will take a lecture on national embarrassment from many people, sir, but not from you.

A lot of the dialogue in this series has not been particularly elegant or inspiring, with the exception of Edward's superlatively eloquent way of expressing himself ("pusillanimity" is a great word), but the Queen Mother's line about Edward--"He's like mercury; he'll slip through the tiniest crack"--was really, really great.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Eyes High

[VCRTracking]

Apparently Tommy didn't have that high regard for Edward VIII even before the abdication. From an article about a biographical book about Lascalles:
 

Quote

 

"Tommy's bête noir was the Prince of Wales, later King Edward VIII and ultimately Duke of Windsor. "He is the most attractive man I have ever met," Tommy declared on appointment to his household in 1921. Disillusionment was swift. "I have wasted the best years of my life," he said after resigning in 1929, outraged by the Prince's neglect of duty and loose morals.

Half a century later, when I was writing a biography of George V, I asked Lascelles what he remembered of the King, who had summoned him back to royal service in 1935. He said: "The King gave me an MVO for looking after his son. It was the hardest-earned medal I ever had." From a man who had won a Military Cross on the Western Front, that was indeed a savage epitaph on the Prince.

He wrote no less bitterly of Mrs Simpson in his retrospect of the Abdication crisis printed in the present volume: "The vast majority of the King's subjects… would not tolerate their Monarch taking as his wife, and their Queen, a shop-soiled American, with two living husbands and a voice like a rusty saw."

 

[JustaPerson]

Damn, Tommy! Harsh. Can't say I'm surprised ofc. Edward was quite handsome in those days too so I agree with pretty much everything lol. I was on the fence about liking Tommy until that scene with Edward. I was like "Yaas Tommy! Drag him!!!1!" Okay, not quite that millennial-esque but still. 

[Clanstarling]

Looks like the writers nailed his manner of speech and attitude.

[dubbel zout]

You don't mess with a mustache like that. 

[Eyes High]

4 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Looks like the writers nailed his manner of speech and attitude.

I love that he was apparently as magnificently contemptuous towards Edward in real life as he was on the show. 

Edited December 2, 2016 by Eyes High

[CeeBeeGee]

On 11/5/2016 at 6:03 PM, VCRTracking said:

Phillip looks bad in this episode but as his grandsons William and Harry noted in the "Elizabeth at 90" documentary when they were watching color film of the coronation, he actually looked more nervous rather than seething with resentment.

I actually didn't see him as seething, he looked as though he was more in awe than anything.

On 11/6/2016 at 3:54 PM, VCRTracking said:

As bad as I feel for Bertie, he ended up being the better man for the job by far for the times. I was moved by royal secretary Tommy Lascalles saying he was a "hero" to the Duke of Windsor's face and the archbishop agreeing. That was just a great scene all around.

God, yes. David would've been a disaster. The sad thing is, he actually had some ability--he had some interesting ideas when he was younger. But I think being young, rich and good-looking kind of corrupted him. Nothing was really a challenge and he turned into this aristocratic lout. But his father called it, predicted the whole thing--he said if he became King, he would ruin it in a year, and that he (George V) prayed that "nothing stand between Bertie and Lilibet and the throne."