S23.E11: Week 8

[tessaforever]

1 hour ago, Shades of Red said:

I really enjoyed Val and Laurie's dance.  He may come across as "old school" but maybe that's due to Laurie's age and that helps make some of these dances age appropriate vs creepy older guy with a young underage girl?  We know in ballroom that kids of all ages dance all the dances so it's not a case of someone younger never dancing a particular dance.    I personally like more traditional.  The waltz wasn't full traditional, but it had the feel of more traditional vs all the mucking about and weird steps some of the dances have.  YMMV.

Poor Marilu.  I feel terrible for her.  The dance was well choreographed but she seemed so stiff and nervous that it made watching it very uncomfortable.   At times Derek seemed to be putting her into the position/place he needed her to be instead of her participating in the dance.  Almost as if she was a mannequin.  Derek really does have that passive/aggressive thing down, and it's not pleasant for anyone to deal with someone like that, let alone having to deal with it on national television.

Regarding Val and Laurie, I was glad that they did at least have part of it in hold. 

The Previously TV recap (I almost said TWoP lol) noted only one mistake in Derek and Marilu's dance but I saw at least 4 major missteps (and I'm not usually attuned to that stuff). They also just looked SO uncomfortable together!

[Padma]

18 hours ago, mtlchick said:

I never think I've seen any pro so emotional as Val was tonight.  Good thing the dance was worth it, it was that stunning.

At least Marilu LOOKED great, but the dance was a big mess.  

 

Val couldn't have been more adorable there--made me think of a hs girl's perfect boyfriend or big brother--he just seemed so young and vulnerable in the moment. I think he really does love Laurie like a big brother or is feeling "nesting instincts" now that Maks is a father-to-be. I think he'll be an amazing uncle, but he seems ready for commitment.

I think he was very moved by the innocence--Laurie's innocence and the sweet innocence of the dance  and its wistful feeling of lost childhood innocence. Very sweet and a lovely dance. I was glad they got tens.

Marilu and Derek seem to barely be able to stand each other now. I think it makes sense, in a way. They're both perfectionists and expect to succeed at things they put a lot of effort into.  Marilu always tries to have good manners in the critiques but you can see she's frustrated that she just can't ever nail it. I think she blames Derek a bit, too, as a teacher because he can't find a way to help her. And he seems completely frustrated probably for the same reason--she has a lot of skills, works very hard and is a perfectionist, but no matter what he tries, she just can't nail it (and the Halloween dance was one of the worst, dance-wise AND choreography-wise).

I would have rather seen Jana and Gleb go over Ryan who has grown on me and continues to improve. Gleb should be someone you want to keep seeing because of his looks but actually...no.  Everytime he dances his choreography reminds me how much I miss Mark.

[sinkwriter]

Quote

Not every woman wants to date, say, "Maks", but EVERY girl wants a "Val" for big brother.

I prefer Val, and definitely not for a brother. *waggles eyebrows* 

[SophiaPehawkins]

7 hours ago, Padma said:

I think he was very moved by the innocence--Laurie's innocence and the sweet innocence of the dance  and its wistful feeling of lost childhood innocence. Very sweet and a lovely dance. I was glad they got tens.

You put into words what I've been thinking about since last night. It's weird because I had this conversation with my sister not too long ago. That moment when the innocence is gone. I think he sees a lot of potential (beyond dancing) and sweetness in Laurie and he does feel a sense of responsibility to mentor her. I can see why Val teared up, because it's what made me cry. There was something magical about it all.

Edited November 2, 2016 by SophiaPehawkins

[vavera4ka]

31 minutes ago, sinkwriter said:

I prefer Val, and definitely not for a brother. *waggles eyebrows* 

Artem or bust! lol

[majormama]

I've never seen Beetlejuice, so I have no frame of reference for Terra and Sasha's theme. Thought it was a telling staging decision that they showed her struggling to get onto the table in rehearsal, and then we didn't see her climb onto the table. The camera showed the troupe dancers at that point. Also wondered who drew the short straw to be the Asparagus Hand. That totally would have been Sasha's role in previous seasons! 

Loved Calvin and Lindsey's dance! The skeleton costumes were interesting, and the choreography was great.

I'm so over Jana and Gleb. I couldn't even really enjoy this dance, even though it was the least offensive, most likable one they've done.

Ryan really grew on me this season. I expected to hate him, but he came off as a lovable idiot. Kind of wish he'd stayed another week (or two!) over Marilu and/or Jana. 

Laurie's dance really suited her. She's a great dancer. I just can't bring myself to vote for her, though. I find both Calvin and James more interesting.

James and Jenna sure brought the Joker/Harley story to life through dance. My one complaint is that, with Suicide Squad out this summer, the story is told from the perspective of, and with the focus on, Harley, when from the standpoint of the competition, James should be the focus. He wasn't even in the dance for the first few measures. Usually if someone has a solo, it's the star not the pro. But other than that, wow, it was great!

The Dance-Offs:

Laurie and Val had half a dance danced twice. I definitely recognized the moves the second time around, including a lift, shame, shame. Calvin and Lindsey had sync issues, though, in a few places.

Gleb and Jana, just ew. He's running his hands over her body and taking off his shirt. I've said it too many times before, but less is more. He just skeeves me out. I preferred Terra and Sasha just for that.

Ryan and Cheryl seemed to be having a blast just clubbing it up, while Derek was talking Marilu through the whole thing. What happened with Cheryl at the end, did she fall into the audience? That just seemed to make them laugh and enjoy themselves even more.

[majormama]

12 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Poor James got the worst song of all time for a VW.  Those lyrics (You don't own me!) are about conflict - perfect for a Paso.   And this in the week he had a brand spanking new partner.  Incredible incongruence, costumes most definitely included, and so unfortunate.   30 was a ridiculous score.   Then again, more than a few folks in social media called them getting immunity due to Sharna's injury.  Uh huh.

I get what you're saying, but for a Joker/Harley inspired VW, You Don't Own Me is actually perfect. They've got this codependent, abusive relationship going on where she insists he doesn't own her, but he kind of totally does. That was very well played out in this dance. It wasn't a traditional VW, it's more disturbing than romantic, but again, that's the story. I thought it was spot on.

[3jt]

I just re-watched a couple of the dances with the sound off, and I must say that I absolutely LOVED James' dance! He looked like he was leading the whole time. It just seemed really powerful to me. I absolutely adore Laurie & Val. She may not be the best dancer that ever danced, but I love her attitude. Maybe that is why I like James, Calvin and Laurie the most this season- all three are working hard to learn to dance, but are having fun too. Marilu and Derrick make me anxious- it's no fun. And I don't like the Gleb Janna BS especially because he's married. I do like Terra and Sasha- again, because it just seems like within all the work, there is some fun going on. This is also all just conjecture since I am basing my opinion on edited television :O)

[scenicbyway]

The frustrating thing about Marilu and Derek is that she is good enough to win, especially with Derek as her partner.  I thought it was pretty interesting that in the rehearsal footage, he called her "The Queen."  He's completely placating her while trying to be professional.  I think she's just all in her head which is unfortunate because she in great shape for someone even half her age.  Perhaps this is why she hasn't been a prolific actress?

I like Laurie, but Val is right, they had stopped progressing.  It's almost like dancing wasn't holding her attention any long.

James is adorable and a wonderful dancer, I feel bad that Sharna is basically out for the season.  If he wins, I wonder if she'll get the credit or the fill in?

I'm loving Terra and Sasha too, it's awesome they way they don't really dance down or up to each other, they are on the same level, which has to be hard with the height difference.

Jenna and Gleb can leave next.  She seems nice, but I'm over his dances.

[peach]

Terra:  I hate the movie Beetlejuice, and I also don't care about Terra much, so..it was fine.

Laurie:  I thought it was sweet, and I liked the choreography, but it didn't smack me in the feels like it did so many.  I enjoyed it, though.

Marilu:  I loved the choreography, but they are SO uncomfortable to watch either behind the scenes or on the stage.  I don't know who's really the cause of their bitter awkwardness, but it's like being trapped at a dinner party with a couple who obviously just had a fight.  Also, I think maybe he did push her in that that team future dance, perhaps impulsively and somewhat involuntarily just because he's holding in his anger.

Calvin:  I love Calvin and Lindsay, and it was good, but I thought their costumes sort of took away from what was happening.  I agree he got overscored, but since they've underscored him repeatedly, IMO, I don't mind.

Ryan:  He brought some sexy persona this time, and I kind of forgot it was Ryan sometimes.  He's not that good, but he tries and doesn't bring a lot of stupid drama, and he's nice to look at, so I wished he would have stayed longer than Marilu, or even Jana or Terra, who are better but don't interest me.

Jana:  Whatever.  FF half of it.

James:  It broke my heart a little that Sharna could only watch, but I thought James was great, and I loved the whole theme for a Halloween dance.  I thought Jenna could certainly climb up off of him after it was over, and during comments.  Geez, girl.  He's not yours.  lol  Hoping Sharna makes it back by the end.

I didn't watch the dance offs.

[peach]

7 hours ago, tessaforever said:

 When Derek, the ultimate perfectionist, says in rehearsal "Oh, it doesn't matter if you do it that way or not" he's given up trying to get a good performance out of his celeb. The look on his face throughout the evening - and Marilu's nervousness - spoke volumes.

I interpreted that as a big FU.  Like, this is how you do it, "but what do I know?"  Or, you're going to do whatever you want, so it doesn't matter.  I really can't wait for them to be over.

[smiley13]

I am glad after seeing that ugly costume that I have no idea what this Harley person is supposed to be.  And for me the only Joker is from the good ole Adam West Batman.   And what does Batman have to do with Halloween?

[Kira53]

20 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

You're right, she needs to leave. Actually, she should have left weeks ago. She is not the dancer she thinks she is or has made the public think she is for years.  I'm guessing Derek fans are keeping her there.

She has beautiful legs but I usually find myself FF through her dances.  I just get bored.  I don't know why.  I usually love Derrick's choreography but maybe he needs a younger dancer more capable of speed.  She seems very slow.  I'm in her age group so believe that it is age related.  I too would have rather have watched Ryan next week.  

[crowceilidh]

I feel really sorry for Marilu.  Her perfectionism is hard to live with, but she's having to deal with publically not doing as well as everyone (I suspect including her) thought she would and having the world watch Derek treat her like crap.  I think there's every possibility that Derek is treating her like crap because he'd rather be working on his show than on DWTS at this point.  All of the pros know how to lose.

I thought she looked fantastic for the first time in that dance, but what a lot of errors.  You'd think an actress would be better at covering mistakes, but the errors she makes are often quite difficult to recover from.  I feel that's at least partly on Derek.  

I have come around to kind of liking Derek after all these years, but he's being such an ass to her (what person of that age can do the lifts she's been doing?) all the time that he's making her look nervous and needy.  Maybe she is that effed up -- I've certainly never seen her so out of control ever before -- but maybe she's not.  It's hard to tell, when Derek is being such a jerk.

Edited November 2, 2016 by crowceilidh

[iMonrey]

Quote

The Previously TV recap (I almost said TWoP lol) noted only one mistake in Derek and Marilu's dance but I saw at least 4 major missteps (and I'm not usually attuned to that stuff). 

I noticed two, and the routine started out with Marilu in a chair, with two troupe members on either side of her, and all three were doing some sort of arm movements and Marilu's differed from the troupe's. Now, that might have been an intentional part of the choreography, but the trouble is after last week when she was so out of sync with Derek in the Charleston, it probably wasn't a good idea to deliberately incorporate an element that was out of unison with the troupe. 

Quote

I'm loving Terra and Sasha too, it's awesome they way they don't really dance down or up to each other, they are on the same level, which has to be hard with the height difference.

I have mad respect for how well Terra has done, and she and Sasha dance in hold quite well considering the height difference. It's much better than I ever expected. However, last night it became obvious the judges were starting to telegraph her exit. We've gotten to the part of the season where they start to say, essentially "you won't be in the finals, time to go home now, thanks for playing."

Edited November 1, 2016 by iMonrey

[smiley13]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I have mad respect for how well Terra has done, and she and Sasha dance in hold quite well considering the height difference. It's much better than I ever expected. However, last night it became obvious the judges were starting to telegraph her exit. We've gotten to the part of the season where they start to say, essentially "you won't be in the finals, time to go home now, thanks for playing."

Sasha was all hunched over last night though when they were dancing in the dance-off.  It just looked bad IMO.

[Fostersmom]

Just now, smiley13 said:

Sasha was all hunched over last night though when they were dancing in the dance-off.  It just looked bad IMO.

It looked even worse when he just picked her up and starting twirling in circles. I kept waiting for her to hurl. 

[RemoteControl88]

10 minutes ago, Fostersmom said:

It looked even worse when he just picked her up and starting twirling in circles. I kept waiting for her to hurl. 

That was all strategy on Sasha's part. That spin took up half the dance lol.  But it wasn't even an elegant spin. It was so awkward.

[PBGamer89]

I can't figure out for the life of me why the show keeps acting like James is a dance god and everything he does is gold, not to mention dancing last 2 weeks in a row.

My only guess would be to finally get Sharna a win because in no way is he remotely close to being the best male celebrity ever.

If he wins, it will be because the show was desperate to have Sharna finally win. If the show treated Laurie the way they treat him, I don't think he'd be as far ahead as he is. By knocking her down recent weeks, while propping him up, and then making it look like Laurie had immunity only to have him get it at the very end, is yet another way to put the spotlight on him.

I don't know why the show can't organically let the season happen without trying to prevent someone from doing well or overdoing it with others to make them seem better than they are.

Edited November 2, 2016 by PBGamer89

[peach]

3 hours ago, smiley13 said:

I am glad after seeing that ugly costume that I have no idea what this Harley person is supposed to be.  And for me the only Joker is from the good ole Adam West Batman.   And what does Batman have to do with Halloween?

She was Harley Quinn, who is the Joker's psychiatrist turned lover after he drove her insane.  So that's kind of horrifying.  And their particular portrayal is from the recent movie Suicide Squad.  The comic book version looks more like a harlequinn, but this is straight out of the movie.

 

[suebee12]

Quote

I can't figure out for the life of me why the show keeps acting like James is a dance god and everything he does is gold, not to mention dancing last 2 weeks in a row.

I am no expert on dancing but I do know what I like, and I like James! I cannot take my eyes off of him while he is dancing. To me he is mesmerizing. He is whatever character that Sharna casts him as. I came into this season rooting for Derek(sorry Derek haters) but that quickly went away when Marilu wasn't what I had expected and James appeared and took my breath away. I loved him last week and didn't think he could top that when this week happened. I didn't even know who he was supposed to be but right away, I knew he was evil but such a fun evil. He seems as though he is a great guy and will go along with all of the make-up and costuming and characterizations. What fun! What was also amazing with last weeks dance was the way he kept up with the pros at the beginning of the dance and I didn't notice this until I rewatched the dance because the first time around, all I saw was James. I really wish Sharna could have danced last night but heck, I hardly noticed Jenna so who knows if I would have noticed Sharna either!!!!

[CraftyHazel]

46 minutes ago, suebee12 said:

I am no expert on dancing but I do know what I like, and I like James! I cannot take my eyes off of him while he is dancing. To me he is mesmerizing. He is whatever character that Sharna casts him as. I came into this season rooting for Derek(sorry Derek haters) but that quickly went away when Marilu wasn't what I had expected and James appeared and took my breath away. I loved him last week and didn't think he could top that when this week happened. I didn't even know who he was supposed to be but right away, I knew he was evil but such a fun evil. He seems as though he is a great guy and will go along with all of the make-up and costuming and characterizations. What fun! What was also amazing with last weeks dance was the way he kept up with the pros at the beginning of the dance and I didn't notice this until I rewatched the dance because the first time around, all I saw was James. I really wish Sharna could have danced last night but heck, I hardly noticed Jenna so who knows if I would have noticed Sharna either!!!!

This...except I tuned in for Laurie Hernandez and fell for James.  I think he does a beautiful job of bringing each character fully to life, and I always think he looks great doing it!  Everyone has their own favorites...James is mine.

[MsJamieDornan]

7 hours ago, scenicbyway said:

The frustrating thing about Marilu and Derek is that she is good enough to win,

I dont think she is. Much too slow and not as good as I thought. JMO ( or she thought )

[FilmTVGeek80]

1 hour ago, PBGamer89 said:

I can't figure out for the life of me why the show keeps acting like James is a dance god and everything he does is gold, not to mention dancing last 2 weeks in a row.

My only guess would be to finally get Sharna a win because in no way is he remotely close to being the best male celebrity ever.

If he wins, it will be because the show was desperate to have Sharna finally win. If the show treated Laurie the way they treat him, I don't think he'd be as far ahead as he is. By knocking her down recent weeks, while propping him up, and then making it look like Laurie had immunity only to have him get it at the very end, is yet another way to put the spotlight on him.

I don't know why the show can't organically let the season happen without trying to prevent someone from doing well or overdoing it with others to make them seem better than they are.

 

They're probably acting like he's an amazing dancer because he is one. And not just an amazing dancer, but just an all-around amazing performer. Like Julieanne and Carrie-Ann have said, if he wanted to after this is over he could get acting work because he's IMO one of the best non-actor performers this show has had. He just embodies the spirit of each dance and the character Sharna has given him perfectly. I would say Laurie is pretty good at that aspect too, especially since her face is so expressive, but I think James has her beat in that category. It probably doesn't help that Laurie's dances haven't really included a diverse array of characters for her to perform.

If he wins, it'll be because just like with every season and every winner there was something about him that connected with the majority of the audience/voters. I think Laurie fans should actually be pretty grateful the show toned down the tongue baths they were giving Laurie at the beginning of the competition. That could have backfired on her since a lot people were - and some still are - grumbling about how she had this in the bag from the beginning.

Also, they didn't make it look like Laurie won immunity. It was actually the exact opposite. Plenty of people at home could have just assumed she had immunity once she got the perfect score, but Tom was clear to say, especially when Calvin also got a perfect score, that if anyone else got a perfect score that the tiebreaker would be the dancers' cumulative scores for the season. So, no, they didn't pretend like Laurie had immunity only to snatch it away from her.

[PBGamer89]

10 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

They're probably acting like he's an amazing dancer because he is one. And not just an amazing dancer, but just an all-around amazing performer. Like Julieanne and Carrie-Ann have said, if he wanted to after this is over he could get acting work because he's IMO one of the best non-actor performers this show has had. He just embodies the spirit of each dance and the character Sharna has given him perfectly. I would say Laurie is pretty good at that aspect too, especially since her face is so expressive, but I think James has her beat in that category. It probably doesn't help that Laurie's dances haven't really included a diverse array of characters for her to perform.

If he wins, it'll be because just like with every season and every winner there was something about him that connected with the majority of the audience/voters. I think Laurie fans should actually be pretty grateful the show toned down the tongue baths they were giving Laurie at the beginning of the competition. That could have backfired on her since a lot people were - and some still are - grumbling about how she had this in the bag from the beginning.

Also, they didn't make it look like Laurie won immunity. It was actually the exact opposite. Plenty of people at home could have just assumed she had immunity once she got the perfect score, but Tom was clear to say, especially when Calvin also got a perfect score, that if anyone else got a perfect score that the tiebreaker would be the dancers' cumulative scores for the season. So, no, they didn't pretend like Laurie had immunity only to snatch it away from her.

 

Let me rephrase that final part. After a few weeks of them underscoring and being overly critical of Laurie's dances, the weeks she finally has a good comeback with a perfect score and a memorable dance and then it felt like that moment got "stolen" from her with Sharna's injury/James' perfect score.

I'm not worried that Laurie no longer will win, but it's more that it feels like the judges suddenly shifted all focus from Laurie to James. He hasn't gotten less than a 9 since Week 3, not to mention the hyperbole comments he's gotten like "you're unbeatable/you're the best male dancer ever on the show", and now two back to back times dancing last. Where's the backlash for that. Insert Laurie in those parts (no 8 since week 3, hyperbole comments, back to back dancing last) and the masses would be screaming "it's fixed".

Just hate the double standard of women celebs in general getting backlash for everything (dancing well, being sexy, being bubbly, etc), but men get away with everything.

Edited November 2, 2016 by PBGamer89

[Mondayeve]

Quote

I am no expert on dancing but I do know what I like, and I like James! I cannot take my eyes off of him while he is dancing. To me he is mesmerizing.

I agree with Suebee.  We like who we like and the reasons are not always understood. 

I came into this season planning to just be a casual viewer like I am most seasons.  I have not voted in years.  I watch and really am not engaged but happy for whoever wins and the final is always a good watch.

This year Laurie looked so good on paper that I thought no one could touch her and she would be a slam dunk.  I would be happy for her if she won.  She is sweet and talented and dances beautifully.  I am not feeling her though and especially not feeling her with Val, hard to explain but there is no spark, nothing that makes me want to dial the number.  They could promote Laurie to the heavens and have her go last every week, it wouldn't matter to me if I wasn't feeling it.

Having no idea who James when I watched him take his first steps in that beautiful foxtrot I knew I was once again invested in my little dance show.  Totally unexpected and such a pleasant surprise.  Now I am engaged because I find him engaging and the team magic that he and have Sharna created is enjoyable to watch.  You get the feeling that he immerses himself in this whole strange dance experience and part of why his roll in packages are as much fun as the dances themselves.

To me James is the journey contestant (along with Calvin) and that is why the show loves them.  I don't think it is just because of the pro needing a win.  The pro earns the win by getting that celeb to the final generating more interest each passing week.  My instincts tell me the producers closely observe who is getting the buzz and the interest and do highlight those celebs the best they can.  That may be unfair but it is T.V and ratings and viewer interest dictates. 

James and Calvin have helped to make it a competition that I honestly did not think would even be there.

I am sure it was unfair that James danced last but the producers knew that suicide dance had to close the show.  It just had to.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Mondayeve

[FilmTVGeek80]

5 minutes ago, PBGamer89 said:

 

Let me rephrase that final part. After a few weeks of them underscoring and being overly critical of Laurie's dances, the weeks she finally has a good comeback with a perfect score and a memorable dance and then it felt like that moment got "stolen" from her with Sharna's injury/James' perfect score.

I'm not worried that Laurie no longer will win, but it's more that it feels like the judges suddenly shifted all focus from Laurie to James. He hasn't gotten less than a 9 since Week 3, not to mention the hyperbole comments he's gotten like "you're unbeatable/you're the best male dancer ever on the show", and now two back to back times dancing last. Where's the backlash for that. Insert Laurie in those parts (no 8 since week 3, hyperbole comments, back to back dancing last) and the masses would be screaming "it's fixed".

Just hate the double standard of women celebs in general getting backlash for everything (dancing well, being sexy, being bubbly, etc), but men get away with everything.

2

Do you think Sharna injured herself on purpose and then had to sit out a week (which IMO was clearly killing her) just to steal the spotlight from Laurie? Yeah, she didn't end up winning "immunity" but she still got her "comeback" performance be praised to the high heaven and got the three points from the dance off to put her within two points of James.

And I'm not getting into some battle of the sexes type thing. Men on this show do not get away with everything. I know you were here on the forums last season and Nyle got crucified by plenty of people for the "hyperbole" comments from the judges. I think you're making James dancing last two weeks in a row a way bigger deal than it is. So, I don't see any need for backlash over that. People have complained about the "best male ever" comments, etc. I think Laurie probably would have gotten more crucified, not because she's a woman, but because people were poised to dislike her getting overly praised since she came in here as the early favorite. A lot of people tend to not react very well to the obvious front runners. Like I said before as a Laurie fan, you should feel relieved that they're not overly praising her and she's not getting a lot of hate for it. The show is clearly setting her up for some fake comeback crap, so that's why they've been "knocking her down" (I don't really agree they've been that harsh) not because she's a girl and James is a guy. I'm sure the judges will be right back on schedule praising Laurie to the heavens from now on.

I think James (and Calvin) have come by their popularity and judges' comments honestly. Tom mentioned it a few weeks ago, and based on the comments here I believe it, that when people came up to him to talk about the show that people kept saying what pleasant surprises James and Calvin have been. They've both got such amazing personalities and really came out of left field with great dancing and those are things that will take you incredibly far in this competition. This show is, above all else, a reality entertainment program. I don't think the producers were interested in having the story all season be Laurie the frontrunner leaving everyone else in the dust. I think that would have bored a lot of people - I know it would have bored me. But James and Calvin being competitive make it much more interesting. Also, I just don't think Laurie really is that much better a dancer than James or Calvin. I think if, like a lot of people are speculating, the final three is James/Laurie/Calvin it will be one of the most well-matched final threes in a long time. All three IMO are great dancers, have great personalities, attitudes, and work ethics, and are a joy to watch. If Laurie wins I won't be as pissed as when someone like Bindi won, but at this point, I would much rather see James win.  I like him as a person just a little bit more and his dances have been far more memorable. 

[Mondayeve]

Also I saw an interview with Julieanne and she admitted she spoke the wrong words and should have said "one of the best" and not the best.   I sensed she was embarrassed by her comment and regretted it.  She got tons of backlash and criticism for that comment, rightly so.  It is subjective who is the best celeb dancer or even pro dancer because if you asked 10 people you would most likely not get the same answer. 

[FilmTVGeek80]

34 minutes ago, Mondayeve said:

You get the feeling that he immerses himself in this whole strange dance experience and part of why his roll in packages are as much fun as the dances themselves.

THIS absolutely! There was one week I was pressed for time and didn't watch any of the rehearsal packages, EXCEPT for James because his personality and sense of humor are so fun that it makes even those sometimes cheesy bits of the show entertaining.

[PBGamer89]

26 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Do you think Sharna injured herself on purpose and then had to sit out a week (which IMO was clearly killing her) just to steal the spotlight from Laurie? Yeah, she didn't end up winning "immunity" but she still got her "comeback" performance be praised to the high heaven and got the three points from the dance off to put her within two points of James.

That's not what i'm saying. If the show really wanted this "comeback" arc for her. She would've gotten immunity along with the perfect score to illustrate the "Laurie is back" angle.

But yes, it will always be a battle of the sexes thing. Look from seasons 2-5 that men kept winning over better dancing females to the point where the show HAD to do season 6 with Kristi and a bunch of mediocre male celebs just to get a women to win again. Look at last season. Nyle, while a good dancer, won over superior Paige who, IMO, is one of the best female celebs to ever be on the show, yet she got trumped by a contestant who won because he was a good dancer for being deaf, which is not what Nyle wanted to portray but his deafness was shoved down our throats constantly. His final freestyle which was called "the best dance ever" by Carrie Ann sealed the deal.

It's very, very seldomly that a woman celeb wins without some kind of TPTB manipulation. Look at the times the scores on the final had to be so far in the woman's favor (Brooke, Nicole, Kristi) come to mind of instances where it was made impossible for others point wise to catch up. But look how many times a man overtook a female celeb in the final without being in first place or tied for first with a woman (Helio, Donny, Donald, Nyle).

I think Bindi, Shawn, Rumer, Meryl, and Amber won in the finals without the need to overscore them or underscore others to ensure it.

Edited November 2, 2016 by PBGamer89

[Mondayeve]

PBGamer89.  You give the TPTB and the judges too much power.  People vote for their favorites.   And yes a lot of times it is a male celeb especially a male celeb who would never enter a dance studio on his own own power because that generates more fascination than a perky female who you know just loves to dance and is totally comfortable with it.   But as you pointed out they also vote for women.  I think a lot of voting comes down if you like the couple and how the pro and celeb work together and then it doesn't matter whether the celeb is male or female.  They are voting for the couple...their favorite couple - the couple that captures their interest.  IMO a good male pro can help a female celeb immensely, look at all the times Derek's partner has won.

[katha]

There is a sexist slant to DWTS, has always been. It's miraculously always the good female dancers who get booted early because they are somehow "not connecting". It's always the women contestants "not connecting". And being a charming male covers a multitude of sins. That's the way it's always been, that's how it's always going to be.

That said, I don't think the show is doing anything nefarious this season. Yeah, James gets all that hyperbole, but it's hyperbole that's thrown out every season as well. Next year someone will be "best ever" again. I think with Laurie it's also a thing where people regularly forget that the gymnasts on this show weren't ever actually all that invincible and showed limitations connected to their training when it came to dancing. She's really good and getting better, but IMO she's displaying some of the same ticks that Shawn and Nastia had (I think Aly was a notch worse than those three). And I love Laurie, she's my fave this season. But the show isn't treating her badly.

They give her nice packages. They score her perhaps on a different scale than the others, but she doesn't get mean criticism usually. They also accomplished two things with the rather stricter scores in the last few weeks: They probably cut out a lot of backlash for her. If she'd been constantly top of the leaderboard various social media would now be drowning in "Ugh! I'm sick of her, she shouldn't be even on anyway. So unfair!" (She's a female ringer and she doesn't have a sentimental angle like Bindi, cynical as that sounds, to mitigate any of that). And they gave her a (fake) story arc. Some sort of narrative where she "struggles" and then "makes a comeback". They've done that countless times before as well. Otherwise it would be just her dancing well and being happy. Which is certainly enough for me, but the DWTS soap opera gods need to be placated at all times. (-;

I don't think TPTB have it in for Laurie at all. I think that they feel comfortable planning these long-term scripts with her (and it was obvious a few weeks ago that this was a script) because she has no problem with votes and they want to give her narrative to keep her "interesting" (at least what they think of as interesting).

Edited November 2, 2016 by katha

[PBGamer89]

I appreciate good dancing and 90% of the time thats the female celebs and I guess i'm just a little over and annoyed with the "charismatic" male celebs winning over better females.

Paige VanZant was a perfect example of someone who started good, but immensely improved in her emotional connection and performance aspect, someone with amazing technique who had memorable dance upon memorable dance with a likeable and rootable personality. It's just a shame she was in the same season as Nyle.

After a season where a likable but inferior male celeb won over the obviously better female, I was ready for a season where the best dancer won again, and I found myself irritated that yet another "charming, good but not great" male celeb could overtake that yet again.

Edited November 2, 2016 by PBGamer89

[PBGamer89]

katha, you bring up a good point about the women going so quickly usually. Part of how I found the beginning of this season so different with the men getting picked off first.

The shocker elimination 9 times out of 10 is usually female celeb. (Sabrina, Lil Kim, Brandy, Christina Milian, Elizabeth Berkley, Nastia, Alexa) all come to mind as times when it was not predicted for them to go home, yet how many times has the men been in the "shocker" slot? I can really only think of Charlie White, Apolo in All Stars, Cody Simpson, as some of the only times people were surprised at a male going home.

[MsTree]

11 hours ago, Padma said:

Marilu and Derek seem to barely be able to stand each other now. I think it makes sense, in a way. They're both perfectionists and expect to succeed at things they put a lot of effort into.  Marilu always tries to have good manners in the critiques but you can see she's frustrated that she just can't ever nail it. I think she blames Derek a bit, too, as a teacher because he can't find a way to help her. And he seems completely frustrated probably for the same reason--she has a lot of skills, works very hard and is a perfectionist, but no matter what he tries, she just can't nail it

For some reason, I think that Marilu would be doing a LOT better if she had a pro like Tony Dovolani. Let's face it, if he can put up with Kate Gosselin and all the other bad dancers, he would certainly have the patience to teach Marilu without getting too frustrated.

[calipiano81]

59 minutes ago, MsTree said:

For some reason, I think that Marilu would be doing a LOT better if she had a pro like Tony Dovolani. Let's face it, if he can put up with Kate Gosselin and all the other bad dancers, he would certainly have the patience to teach Marilu without getting too frustrated.

I have much respect for Tony, as I do for all of the pros. However, I was glad that our two older female contestants this season were able to be paired with different male pros this time around. Tony's style of teaching and choreography is considerate, but most of his partners' (even the younger ones) dancing ended up being too careful, safe, and often non-impactful. I feel that both Maureen and Marilu danced more full-out and executed more ambitious content than if either of them had been paired with Tony.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I just want to say how awesome this thread has been.  Many (myself included) have great passion around this ep, and everyone has made great points agreeing and disagreeing, without being disagreeable.  So much wisdom and DWTS knowledge has been shared.  It's all pretty much been on point for this ep, too.  Not a lot of veering away.

Thank you to all.

[Michel]

So reading over all of these comments, I am the only one who likes Jana & Gleb?  Or at least likes Jana and tolerates Gleb?  I think they have a fine partnership.  And I think the overly "sexy" chemistry between them is a story the judges are selling more than they are.  And for all the fawning over Laurie, Calvin, and especially James being done here, I think Jana's proven to be just as good of a dancer as they are.  I just don't get why she doesn't get the same credit as they do.  It should say something that they are the only four with at least one perfect score each.

[lavenderblue]

I was someone who, once seeing her dance, was invested enough in Paige's success last season to actually vote for her each week. I've never taken issue with the idea of a "ringer" or been likely to pull for the total amateur over the celeb with a more ingrained dance ability. I've had unpopular faves like Nastia and Alexa. And yet, I'm also finding myself rooting for James first, after believing at season's start that I'd be surely pulling for Laurie. The difference for me, personally, from last season is that James is a better dancer than Nyle, and I think based on what she's been able to show, Laurie is not yet as strong as Paige. For me it's a closer contest between the leading female and male, and come to that crossroads, I'm really just enjoying Sharna's work for James more than Val's for Laurie; I think James is far exceeding his projected potential based on prior experience, and showing tremendous performance range and decent enough dance range, while I often feel that Laurie could probably do more than she's shown across the board, but has been held back by schedule/maturity/standard gymnast limitations/etc. It adds up to my routinely appreciating James's routines while sometimes being disappointed in Laurie's, and that's an issue that's got nothing to do with sexism or being easily impressed by men who try to dance.

As far as the episode goes, I do think they each had the strongest dances of the night technically, but Val's VW for me was nice, appropriate, but not something that will stick with me. In theory I like that Val is a traditionalist; in execution I'm waiting to see if he with Laurie can live up to some of his strongest past efforts.

Edited November 2, 2016 by lavenderblue

[Zoeey]

Regarding Laurie v James, I think they're the classic technical v performer.

Laurie has one of the best postures and footwork I've seen of any contestants, her hands and lines bother me sometimes but not as much now. She has a feel good story with her success at the Olympics and is just a lovely, bubbly girl. It's just, most of her dances are lovely and bubbly too and when they're not it's just serious face.

We had a gymnast win a few years back, Louis Smith. Situation nearly identical, had success in the London Olympics and was one of the best technical dancers we ever had. The only difference was that he was stuck on serious face for pretty much everything.

James is the performer. Technical wise he's still way behind Laurie (and I've already mentioned that I've hated the hyperbole from the judges) but give him the story of the dance and he'll be the character you need. He's got an unusual feel good story, nearly dying and all, and he's a naturally charismatic person.

What we need now is something that puts them in the opposite side of the balance and outside their comfort zones.

For James, that's easy: give him an Argentine Tango, no props, no troupe and proper music or something at least with the right beat.

For Laurie, it's more down to the music. See that Viennese Waltz? I wished they used a more somber version of Pure Imagination and, instantly, instead of Charlie she was the one of the children that failed. Val's still Willy Wonka and Laurie's character is now trying to redeem herself, much like the dance was going to be in her story arch. She's not being bubbly but she can't just be serious face. 

As for Jana being overlooked, honestly, if Laurie and James weren't there, it'd probably be a straight fight between her and Calvin. Both of them a lot more central of the technical v performer scale . I would of loved to of seen Jana with Artem because she's very similar to Kara Tointon that he won Strictly with so I think he could of done a lot more with her than Gleb has done.

[boyznkatz]

10 hours ago, PBGamer89 said:

I can't figure out for the life of me why the show keeps acting like James is a dance god and everything he does is gold, not to mention dancing last 2 weeks in a row.

My only guess would be to finally get Sharna a win because in no way is he remotely close to being the best male celebrity ever.

If he wins, it will be because the show was desperate to have Sharna finally win. If the show treated Laurie the way they treat him, I don't think he'd be as far ahead as he is. By knocking her down recent weeks, while propping him up, and then making it look like Laurie had immunity only to have him get it at the very end, is yet another way to put the spotlight on him.

I don't know why the show can't organically let the season happen without trying to prevent someone from doing well or overdoing it with others to make them seem better than they are.

Yeah, I am so over James and the show trying to make him happen. He is good, but not great, and although he seems nice, he isn't all that interesting. Maybe he is in talks with ESPN to be on one of their shows, who knows. Laurie deserves to win IMO but I'm not sure she will. As much as Calvin is getting pimped as well, I don't think he will win. I don't see why Jana is getting ignored. She is a good dancer and should at least get some mention.

As for Sharna, she's no Peta or Cheryl. I wonder why she keeps getting so many chances when people like Lindsay were sent back to the troupe after getting one chance.

Edited November 2, 2016 by boyznkatz

[boyznkatz]

4 hours ago, Michel said:

So reading over all of these comments, I am the only one who likes Jana & Gleb?  Or at least likes Jana and tolerates Gleb?  I think they have a fine partnership.  And I think the overly "sexy" chemistry between them is a story the judges are selling more than they are.  And for all the fawning over Laurie, Calvin, and especially James being done here, I think Jana's proven to be just as good of a dancer as they are.  I just don't get why she doesn't get the same credit as they do.  It should say something that they are the only four with at least one perfect score each.

You aren't the only one. Jana is as good as James and Calvin. Why isn't she getting any recognition? I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN is courting one of the athletes for one of their shows, while Jana is of no use to them. I guess I'm in the minority, but Gleb kicks ass. I don't know about his personal issues, but he is a great dancer. As enjoyable as Calvin is to watch, he doesn't deserve the same scores as Laurie, and neither does anyone else. James, Calvin and Jana should be getting 9s while Laurie gets 10s. If they beat her by the popular vote so be it, but it's a joke to rate her lower than them!

Edited November 2, 2016 by boyznkatz

[CraftyHazel]

Some of this is also as simple as this: women watch the show, women call in to vote, and women are attracted to a charming, attractive man who can dance.  

I have watched exactly two full seasons of this show, so I am no expert on anything DWTS-related.  (I watched for Janel Parrish because PLL, and hated that she was dumped before Little Miss Duck Dynasty...I only came back for Laurie Hernandez, and she isn't even my favorite now.)  But I watched AI for years, and The Voice, too, and I noticed that most of the time, my voting skewed towards largely men.  And this despite any backstories or manipulation on the part of TPTB. I simply tend to prefer the male voices in singing.

We like who and what we like based on our own tastes, preferences, and experiences.  Not all of us are easily manipulated by a sexist agenda or a tear-jerky storyline.  Am I impressed that James dances as well as he does despite his injuries and near-death experience 18 months ago?  Hell, yeah!  But I wouldn't be voting for him if he was a bad dancer, or had a sour expression or attitude.  I would never have voted for Donny Osmond  (despite having liked some of his performances on YT), because I think he's a misogynistic, sexist, homophobic pig, despite the fact that he was my childhood crush and is a very good-looking man.

In short, a lot of things factor into our decisions of who to vote for, and for me, the storyline the show presents for the contestants, or the pro with whom they are partnered, is the least of it.

[majormama]

I have now gone back to watch James' dance 7 or 8 times. It's definitely cracked my top 10 best ever. I do think James is the best dancer this season. Dance is more than just technique, it's also performance. Different people will give different weight to technique vs performance, and that's fine. There's no right or wrong here. I would not be upset if Laurie won, because she could also definitely be argued to be the best dancer. While I think Calvin is a long shot because his technique is a little too low even for someone who weights performance high, I would also accept that outcome.

As for Jana, I do think she's a good dancer. She has good technique and good performance ability. But I don't enjoy watching her because of the over the top sexiness. The showmance couple usually goes far but doesn't win, and this one is extra gross because they're both married (Jana is still just separated, right?). And I don't think you can argue that the show is playing up the showmance, *because* they are both married, they just play up their "chemistry". We've already discussed subtle vs in your face, natural vs forced sexiness. I guess this would go in the performance category, but it's less about good vs bad and more about personal taste. It appeals to some people, but turns off others, which again isn't right or wrong. It's just more polarizing, which makes it less likely she could sneak in for the win. 

IMO the "shocking" elimination is less about the one that just misses the final and more about the one that stays instead. Brandy was a shocking elimination because it meant Bristol stayed. I don't know that it would be that shocking for Jana to come in fourth, unless it was Marilu (and arguably Terra) who stayed in her place. It won't be that shocking if it's Calvin in third.

[katha]

4 hours ago, Zoeey said:

Regarding Laurie v James, I think they're the classic technical v performer.

Laurie has one of the best postures and footwork I've seen of any contestants, her hands and lines bother me sometimes but not as much now. She has a feel good story with her success at the Olympics and is just a lovely, bubbly girl. It's just, most of her dances are lovely and bubbly too and when they're not it's just serious face.

We had a gymnast win a few years back, Louis Smith. Situation nearly identical, had success in the London Olympics and was one of the best technical dancers we ever had. The only difference was that he was stuck on serious face for pretty much everything.

James is the performer. Technical wise he's still way behind Laurie (and I've already mentioned that I've hated the hyperbole from the judges) but give him the story of the dance and he'll be the character you need. He's got an unusual feel good story, nearly dying and all, and he's a naturally charismatic person.

Thank you for putting it like that! It probably does come down to exactly this. And whatever you prefer in your dancing, or where your focus is as a viewer, will determine whom you enjoy the most. We're also now at a point of the season where opinions are pretty locked in and few will change their minds (at least that's been my observation throughout the years). Since it is so subjective and driven by taste. And I'd like to concur with the poster who commented on how enjoyable this discussion has been. It's been really interesting and respectful, and though there are great differences in opinions here it didn't drift into "anyone who doesn't think exactly like me is a terrible person!" territory as it easily could have.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Dancing With The Stars Gets Fierce And Ferocious

Halloween brings out the best in some couples, even if that may not be enough to keep them around for another week.

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

It's very, very seldomly that a woman celeb wins without some kind of TPTB manipulation. Look at the times the scores on the final had to be so far in the woman's favor (Brooke, Nicole, Kristi) come to mind of instances where it was made impossible for others point wise to catch up. But look how many times a man overtook a female celeb in the final without being in first place or tied for first with a woman (Helio, Donny, Donald, Nyle).

But at the same time you can argue how many times have female ringers won versus male ringers? Nicole, Meryl, Kristi all won while Corbin didn't, Mario Lopez didn't, etc. And it is hard to see this sexist agenda when female winners outnumber male winners. 

Quote

IMO a good male pro can help a female celeb immensely, look at all the times Derek's partner has won.

And this. If there was this huge slant against female celebrities, Derek would not be the most successful Pro on this show and with a whopping six wins. 

Quote

PBGamer89.  You give the TPTB and the judges too much power.  People vote for their favorites. 

Yup, round and round it goes. Any show that puts the power in the hands of viewers, you get these debates. As I've said before, it's like the chicken and the egg. Are the producers picking a favorite and pushing them with manipulation and positive edits, etc. or do the producers know who the viewers are responding to and are adjusting to where the votes are. We will never know for sure and people will continue to see conspiracy and unfairness when their favorite isn't the one getting the supposed tongue baths.

As I said when many were spinning conspiracies about Bindi (and some are still insistent of some mythical reality show/project TPTB planned for her that fell through and that's why she was pimped to the win), anyone can twist and see a conspiracy in anything when they're not happy with how things are going on these shows. I saw it plenty with American Idol - the judges threw this contestant under the bus, the order they performed, their song clearance, etc. Hell, as I said, some have tried to spin conspiracies regarding Survivor. 

The fact is, if you think viewers are a bunch of clueless, mindless drones who are easily malleable and easy to manipulate by some positive judges' comments and high scores, then yeah, you're going to believe that the producers are manipulating the show to who they want to win. But if you accept that some people will always respond to contestants differently, then you see the show as a merely an ballroom entertainment show where sure the producers like drama and feel-good stories and all that because it makes for an entertaining show. 

Look at the debate about Bindi and Nick. I continue to read online about how robbed Nick and Sharna were that season and how pimped Bindi was and as someone who watched that season, what I remember of Nick's dancing was how uneven and inconsistent it was many times throughout the season. And yet there are many who firmly believe he was robbed and deserved to win that season. When it comes to shows like these, you will never get a consensus of opinions and that's always going to lead to conspiracy and favoring this or that one and pimping and overscoring, etc. 

Quote

There is a sexist slant to DWTS, has always been. It's miraculously always the good female dancers who get booted early because they are somehow "not connecting". It's always the women contestants "not connecting". And being a charming male covers a multitude of sins. That's the way it's always been, that's how it's always going to be.

But is that coming from the show and producers or the viewers who watch? Also, Jake T. Austin was the first one booted this season and I saw plenty of comments about him being creepy and people not connecting with him. And there have been many early male boots. One of the most shocking first week boots in the show's history was David Hasselhof. Yes, his dancing wasn't great but many expected just on name recognition, he would have outlasted at least one other person for a week. And same with RedFoo being the first one out in his season. 

Quote

And I think the overly "sexy" chemistry between them is a story the judges are selling more than they are.

It was Gleb's decision to incorporate a bed and then a full shower in his and Jana's Argentine Tango. How are the judges the one selling the chemistry? Gleb knows exactly what he's doing because I think that's just his aesthetic. I remember when he joined Val for his and Zendaya's trio and Val had to tell him a move he was suggesting was too sexy because Zendaya was 16. It is telling that Val can be shirtless so much and people like him just fine for the most part and yet I see so many comments by people saying they feel skeeved out by Gleb. 

Quote

Some of this is also as simple as this: women watch the show, women call in to vote, and women are attracted to a charming, attractive man who can dance.  

Yup, that's my friend who has watched the show since the beginning like me. She is completely honest about it. That she gravitates to the attractive guys. The only times she's voted for a female is when there was some showmance she fell for, e.g. she loved Kelly and Val.

Quote

We like who and what we like based on our own tastes, preferences, and experiences. 

Basically. And that's why when you ask viewers to vote for winners, you're going to get disagreements like these because everyone likes who they like for their own reason. And that's the crux of it because who are any of us to say that a person's opinion is wrong. Like other posters, I truly have not been wowed by Laurie's dancing. So I don't see some huge conspiracy against her and believe me I've never been easily charmed by a nice smile and personality from some guy so that's not why I like James and Calvin. The fact is I have found this season in general lackluster and the only two people who have managed to hold my attention a little are James and Calvin.

Edited November 2, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[Mondayeve]

I am hoping for the Laurie/Calvin/James final.  May the best freestyle win because it is always about that freestyle.

I am interested to see what the pros cook up for their celebs.  I think any of them could win it and that is what will make this final interesting.  I think we will see athleticism , technique and performance in spades and have 3 unique and hopefully exciting freestyles. 

I feel the producers want ratings more than anything and really don't care who wins as long as we tune in.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Mondayeve

[DollEyes]

  Re this week's episode, my three faves were Calvin, Laurie & James. Calvin & Linsay's Quickstep was hilarious. It had both content and concept nailed down. Laurie & Val's Viennese Waltz was beautiful. There was a purity and an innocence to it that was very moving to me; James & Jenna's Viennese Waltz, otoh, was not only the exact opposite of innocent, it was the sexiest VW I've ever seen.  Regarding why I like James, it all boils down to that first dance. When it comes to this show, sometimes when I see someone dance for the first time, I know that they're gonna win, or at least make the finals. I knew it when I first saw Gilles Marini, I knew when I first saw Amber Riley, I knew it when I first saw Nyle DiMarco & I knew it when I first saw James. Laurie's dances have impressed me, but I didn't expect James to do the same.  Like Nyle before him, James has proven to be a very pleasant surprise, week after week. 

  Terra & Marilu were definitely my bottom 2 for the week. Terra & Sasha's Cha-Cha wasn't that great, but it was still better than Derek & Marilu's AT, plus Terra & Sasha actually seem to like each other, unlike Derek & Marilu. As for Jana & Gleb a Little Shop Of Horrors-based routine without Audrey II is a snooze. 

Best of all, Ryan was finally eliminated! My long national nightmare is over!

Edited November 2, 2016 by DollEyes

[Mondayeve]

For me one one of the wins that I was completely shocked by was Shawn over Gilles.  I remember all the message boards were abuzz that year with women absolutely  swooning over Gilles and I thought man, he is taking this thing.  I obviously had pegged that one wrong.  I remember thinking so much for the handsome male great dancer celeb a lock for the win.  I also felt that way about Mario L., thought sure he had it sewed up.