S03.E10: The After Show

[Leigh3]

As a mental health therapist I agree Jill is suffering anxiety, possibly extreme anxiety. In her whole life she has never been alone. Never without one of her tribe with her. Except for moments, she has always been on the family compound.  Now she is left with Izzy in a country she sees as scary and dangerous. Derrick goes off to do...who knows what he does, but he is away from the house. I can see her spending all of her time Derrick is away locked in her safe room with the baby. Sitting there just waiting for something horrible to happen. And knowing it WILL happen eventually.  Her freak out anxiety is through the roof and maybe she is having panic attacks. If you are on edge, like she is, the sound of breaking glass of a falling shower rack ..in her mind took her to "guns...danger...we're going to die". Even after she sees it is ok her panic is so high she can't feel safe. I can see it being an episode where Derrick has to throw water on her or shake her to get her to bring her back to reality. Yes Jill needs help. There are somethings that need more than to "pray it away" 

[Whyyouneedaname]

My son was engaged a couple of years ago, married this past summer, he goes to her dad to ask her hand in marriage after dating ah somewhere along the time frame of 4 years. He was so nervous and I would try to encourage him telling him, "you've known him forever," and what not, any way when he came home afterwards I ask him how it went he said "he just shook my hand and said "just take care of her"" those 5 words spoken from her dad was plenty. JB is such a douche. 

[Whyyouneedaname]

on a lighter note, they are ALL on board, from the producer to Jessa, at making fun of Ben. So Ben you wanna spit some bars, then Derick says "you gonna make a rap album" & they are all trying to keep it together & not laugh. 

[Leigh3]

12 minutes ago, DOBABYR said:

Funniest moments of the show last night:

1. Jill & Derrick groping each other excessively on the couch then the random salsa move Derrick did to kiss Jill

2. Jana attempting to crack a joke about wearing flip flops in the forest while Joy sat there totally blanked out missing the joke but Jana continued to stare at her

3. The look on Jinger's face when the interviewer asked about how soon they would start a family... then, the look got even better when Jessa states you'll be expecting by the end of the year

4. The fact that the show was referred to as an  after show with at least 3 more episodes to air

5. When Derrick was blabbing on and onnnnn about a simple question of what do you think about Jinger and Jeremy's courtship...Jeremy is behind him but poor Derrick is still so serious giving his long speech.

6. The competition between Jessa and Jill of who can show their toddler more affection in 5 seconds when the little ones came out and they acted like it had been a week since they saw their kids instead of 5 minutes 

7. Them showing the guys getting makeup done...awkward

8. The camera shots of all their odd facial expressions...was that editing or real time reactions??

The camera shots of their reactions or side shots looked so awkward. Everyone seemed uncomfortable and Jill looked to be suffering. A lot of rolling of the eyes. In one shot Jeremy looked miserable.  Never noticed this editing before.

Here is what I came away with

Ben- In over his head. Has no idea how he is going to support his wife and growingfamily                                                                                      

Jessa- Is still the queen. At least she seems to like Ben(wasn't sure for awhile there), maybe not respect. I think she is having twins which would double crush Jill.

Jill- Needs a mental health assessment STAT.  Please, please get help before you get pregnant.

Derrick- Doesn't look healthy. If you are going to be a missionary...do something for the people besides bible study. Dig a well for clean water, bring in medicines...DO SOMETHING!

Jinger- Young lust...sigh

Jeremy- Better carb load before the wedding night

Jana- Start your decorating business girl. Show big daddy you have worth even when not married and pushing babies out every 18 months. YOU GO GIRL!

Joy-Please do something besides interning under Jana as "mom pro tem". Go read a book.

[Marigold]

I noticed that too.

Ben is the butt of many jokes. He handled it well but I wonder if inside, he was getting pissed. 

22 minutes ago, Leigh3 said:

As a mental health therapist I agree Jill is suffering anxiety, possibly extreme anxiety. In her whole life she has never been alone. Never without one of her tribe with her. Except for moments, she has always been on the family compound.  Now she is left with Izzy in a country she sees as scary and dangerous. Derrick goes off to do...who knows what he does, but he is away from the house. I can see her spending all of her time Derrick is away locked in her safe room with the baby. Sitting there just waiting for something horrible to happen. And knowing it WILL happen eventually.  Her freak out anxiety is through the roof and maybe she is having panic attacks. If you are on edge, like she is, the sound of breaking glass of a falling shower rack ..in her mind took her to "guns...danger...we're going to die". Even after she sees it is ok her panic is so high she can't feel safe. I can see it being an episode where Derrick has to throw water on her or shake her to get her to bring her back to reality. Yes Jill needs help. There are somethings that need more than to "pray it away" 

What do you think about her tears just talking about the shower rack? 

And thanks for posting your thoughts!

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

2 hours ago, SuzyLee said:

He said that sticking to the courtship rules would ensure that the "marriage bed" would not be "defiled."  *vomit*

I just threw up in my mouth a little. Ick.

6 minutes ago, Leigh3 said:

Jeremy- Better carb load before the wedding night

Bahahahaha! 

[Leigh3]

2 minutes ago, Marigold said:

I noticed that too.

Ben is the butt of many jokes. He handled it well but I wonder if inside, he was getting pissed. 

What do you think about her tears just talking about the shower rack? 

And thanks for posting your thoughts!

The fear she felt when the shower rack fell is real. She went into panic mode and she most likely feels this panic when discussing or thinking about the shower rack incident. Realizing it was only a shower rack doesn't diminish her reaction of panic and fear. We would laugh and say oh that was just the rack haha, but Jill lives in a fear state expecting something to happen.  I think she has PTSD. Please Derrick do not take her back to that country.

[cdp73]

If Bin had any balls, he would have handed the questionnaire back to JB and told him "I already f'd your daughter, now take this and do the same to yourself."

[sheshark]

I have had a shower curtain and rod (don't own a rack, too expensive) FALL on my HEAD!  It hurt, for, like, a MINUTE!  But talking about it helps.  Thank you.

[Marigold]

Jessa saw that Jill was a bit over the top when crying about the shower rack and tried to save her by talking about the gunfire she heard. 

Poor Jill.  She is not well and her husband just wants to be important as a missionary and doesn't give a crap about Jill.  What a fucked up marriage. 

Jim Bob should've had a question pertaining to that. 

[cdp73]

6 minutes ago, Marigold said:

Jessa saw that Jill was a bit over the top when crying about the shower rack and tried to save her by talking about the gunfire she heard. 

Poor Jill.  She is not well and her husband just wants to be important as a missionary and doesn't give a crap about Jill.  What a fucked up marriage. 

Jim Bob should've had a question pertaining to that. 

My guess is that he did.  I'm thinking the question was along the lines of "do you consider yourself more important than your wife and put your needs/wants/desires above hers since she is an inferior female?"

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, luvmylabs said:

OH MY GOD.   I am left speechless!

"388. Do you celebrate Holiday’s?"

Apparently nobody's asked any of them whether they know the difference between the simple plural and the singular possessive.

[laurakaye]

7 minutes ago, cdp73 said:

My guess is that he did.  I'm thinking the question was along the lines of "do you consider yourself more important than your wife and put your needs/wants/desires above hers since she is an inferior female?"

"And for the record, your answer should be either "YES," "ABSOLUTELY," or "FIST BUMP, MR D!!"

[DangerousMinds]

3 hours ago, Barb23 said:

I know she was joking but thought Jana's comment about they would have been better off wearing flip flops than boots during the survival training was another jab at the internetters.  Except it took a minute for Joy to catch on which ruined the sarcasm. 

Why did Jill need to email home for prayers for help when she had to realize the falling shower rack was what made the noise when she went into the bathroom, their safe room?  She also mentioned a lot she needs her man around for protection, whether it be from bugs or villains. 

Babe mentioned something about the marital bed at the end. I rewound twice but still couldn't understand what he said. Anyone remember? 

Why is the bathroom their "safe" room? And Jill, learn to fucking kill your own bugs and protect your own damn self.

[Churchhoney]

47 minutes ago, cdp73 said:

If Bin had any balls, he would have handed the questionnaire back to JB and told him "I already f'd your daughter, now take this and do the same to yourself."

Yeah, but then he probably would've remained a virgin for quite some time. And he really really really didn't want that. lol

3 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Why is the bathroom their "safe" room? And Jill, learn to fucking kill your own bugs and protect your own damn self.

Possibly because it's a bit of an earthquake zone?

[toodles]

The hubris of the Duggars astounds me.  You say you are a missionary because you have the heart for it.  What if you're wrong?

Derrick and Bin don't need to go anywhere to be a servant of God.  Need is right under their noses.  Find a local minister and apprentice.  Shadow them as they serve their congregation.  Go with them to soup kitchens, hospital visits, nursing homes and write their sermons.  Do it without tv cameras, People magazine, interpretive dance, rap songs or appendage wives.  I know learning a profession from the bottom up is not the Duggar way, but it's the right way.  Learn from people who really walk the walk and talk the talk.

Jilly Muffin obviously has some problems.  But you are still upset about a falling shower rod?  Here is what's really scary.  Hungry kids and an empty cupboard. No love offerings in sight. A sick baby and you need to take him to the free clinic.  But you need to take a day off work and you will lose a day's pay.  The landlord raises your rent and you're barely making ends meet as it is.

Real life will intrude in to their little Duggar bubble in many different ways.  I know they learned no coping skills, but that won't fly much longer.  Their bubble is springing leaks and it's going to burst in a really ugly way one of these days.

Edited October 26, 2016 by toodles

[DangerousMinds]

2 hours ago, riverblue22 said:

I think I figured out what happened in Jill's story.  She heard the crash of the shower rack.  I take that to be one of those things you hang up in the shower to hold your shampoo, etc.  It wasn't the shower curtain or the shower rod.  She ran into the "safe" bathroom and began sending scary messages to the fam.  Maybe she didn't yet know what caused the noise because the shower curtain hid the rack from view. It probably wasn't until our hero Derick came home and checked out everything that they discovered the source of the noise.  It's the kind of story you laugh about afterwards, but Jill is too terrified to get to that point.  It will probably take her 10 years back in Arkansas before she can do that.

I had the impression that Jill was still nursing Izzy, or had been recently.  Maybe that has kept her from getting pregnant.

Boob may have met his match with Jeremy.  Jinge may be the first to really get out.  Jeremy would make a good youth pastor--maybe he won't be stuck in Laredo in that tiny church forever.

Not with those anti-masturbation sermons, he wouldn't. JMO.

[Sew Sumi]

9 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

So does anybody know why this week's fest was called "After Show"?   After what? After a string of other nothing shows? At most, shouldn't it have been called maybe "The Antepenultimate Show"?

And why were they in Tennessee?

Like me, I think TLC thought they would have a wedding to air here, but that didn't happen, and they were contracted for 10 episodes. Given Jessa's 17 1/2 week timetable, this was filmed two months ago,  so TLC had the wedding date and decided to extend this season to shoehorn it in in a couple weeks (or three...the language they used was ambiguous). 

And we thought we were done with them for a while. WRONG!!!!

As for why Tennessee? Who knows?

Edited October 26, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[riverblue22]

I'm thinking about missionaries who have been invited to speak at the churches I have attended.  The women missionaries were sturdy, independent women, not shrinking, terrified girls like Jill.  Basically, she doesn't have the courage to be a missionary.  Derek married the wrong kind of girl if this is the life he wants to live.  Jill could never even handle being a preacher's wife at Jeremy's church.

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, Leigh3 said:

The fear she felt when the shower rack fell is real. She went into panic mode and she most likely feels this panic when discussing or thinking about the shower rack incident. Realizing it was only a shower rack doesn't diminish her reaction of panic and fear. We would laugh and say oh that was just the rack haha, but Jill lives in a fear state expecting something to happen.  I think she has PTSD. Please Derrick do not take her back to that country.

I'm not sure the country is really the issue. I think Jill needs to work through her feelings and learn to become more independent, not scared every time she is alone. Simple going back to being on her home turf and constantly surrounded by family members is not going to help her with this.

[Whyyouneedaname]

Does Derrick think this is the only way to keep JB out of their every day lives? If they were to move back his only option would be to live near them, not that it would be but is that what Jill has expressed that she wants to be near the compound.

[lulu69]

Let's be honest, the Dills moved all the way to CA and still had family flying in every other week to visit. No distance is far enough from Duggarville.

[lianau]

17 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

It's possible this is it. Absurdity upon absurdity. Jizm Bob (and maybe Bill Gothard) pretending that he believes in some kind of self-reflection. When all it is is another weapon of power to intimidate people with. You'd truly have to be nuts to be willing to fill this out for a chance at a Duggar.

http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2013/06/the-pre-courtship-questionnaire/comment-page-2/

23. Would you be willing to die for Christ? If you’re not dying daily, how can you be so sure you would then?

Huh?? Is this The Walking Dead now ? Groundhog Day ?

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, toodles said:

The hubris of the Duggars astounds me.  You say you are a missionary because you have the heart for it.  What if you're wrong?

Hey, you don't need to have a heart for children to have 19 of them!

I think their version of "belief" means grabbing on to some ideas that somebody else cooked up and called the key to eternal life and holding onto those ideas like crazy, regardless of whether they resonate with you or make sense in the world, or whatever. Their whole focus seems to be to ignore both the realities within them and the realities without. For some reason -- fear? -- they all seem programmed never to look inside to try to find out what they're really about. And they also reject any knowledge about the world -- more fear? wish to set themselves above it? I dunno -- so they don't have any real-world knowledge to test ideas against either.  They run their lives according to these received ideas they've got. And unfortunately the ideas they've received are inappropriate to them and pretty nutso.

Ironic that people so disdainful of the brain (and probably so dumb as well) would run their lives based on abstract ideas. But I think that's what they do. Empty ideas that they believe slavishly and act on, maybe because they crave authority or something?

It's a helluva way to run your life. But that seems to be becoming clear now as so many Duggar boats are running aground on various shoals of reality. But boatpeople just keep clinging to their wrongheaded ideas regardless, looks like.

[Absolom]

Ratings: 1.123 M viewers and a .33 rating.

[sometimesy]

48 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

I'm not sure the country is really the issue. I think Jill needs to work through her feelings and learn to become more independent, not scared every time she is alone. Simple going back to being on her home turf and constantly surrounded by family members is not going to help her with this.

 

34 minutes ago, Whyyouneedaname said:

Does Derrick think this is the only way to keep JB out of their every day lives? If they were to move back his only option would be to live near them, not that it would be but is that what Jill has expressed that she wants to be near the compound.

 

12 minutes ago, lulu69 said:

Let's be honest, the Dills moved all the way to CA and still had family flying in every other week to visit. No distance is far enough from Duggarville.

Surprised how many people find Derelict insensitive. He is right, his family comes first. Moving his damaged goods back to the TTH is a threat to HIS children. The system that damaged Jill is not the place to seek refuge. Get away, get her some real counselling, stop the faux mission and find another 9-5 job. She is frightened of everything because her parents are horrible humans and she refuses to grow up. Not just on her parents, she must take some responsibility. Jill's real issue seems to be being the adult in a house alone. He couldn't go to work at Walmart without her driving there for lunch and he can't leave the mission house because she is afraid. Yes, there is real danger for Americans in Central America, but it is compounded by tv appearances. She wants more kids, fine, have them, but be prepared to raise them without calling in the child army. Boarding schools sometimes prohibit children from contacting their families for the first bit to help them adjust and get over homesickness, the Duggs did not leave Jill alone enough to adjust. They need to stay away, not be there more. imo of course. I also think that she is passively aggressively using these episodes to direct Derelict whether she is aware of it or not.

[PradaKitty]

I found it interesting that both Derrick and Jeremy referred to Jim Bob as "Jim Bob", but Ben referred to him as "Mr. Duggar".

[Clemgo3165]

8 hours ago, laurakaye said:

 

In addition to wanting to rescue Jana and JD, I can also now add Jill to that list.

I don't think she was crying over the shower rod at all.  She seems "off."  She is suffering, and it saddens me to no end that not only will she likely never receive treatment, but she probably cannot even admit to herself that something is wrong...something she cannot pray away.  She grew up with a father that did not protect her from her brother.  She moved to CA with a husband who is gone frequently and therefore cannot protect her and her baby.  I think she is terrified of going back, but has no source of reference to talk to Derrick about it and let him know that she is fearful.  In her mind, she might think that this life is what she knowingly signed up for, and even if it scares her every single day to be in CA, she has to continue to follow her headship because she knows no other way.

Having had postpartum depression myself, I see many signs in Jill that I am familiar with.  Her smile is false, her eyes are dull, she cries very easily.  She's made of glass right now.  Izzy might be getting older, but untreated depression doesn't just go away.  And as infuriating as this family is, it angers me to see her clearly hurting and the only one who gives her a modicum of support is Derrick.  She clearly loves him.  The problem is, she'll follow him anywhere, even if it's not good for her.

Really, I just despise Jim Bob and Michelle for parading their kids on television with the hook of, "look how many kids we have!  Lalalala we are such a big family and Michelle's womb is made of steel!"  What it's turned into is, "look at how many damaged kids we have because we subjected them to dangerous situations and have stunted them emotionally, mentally and creatively for the rest of their lives!"

We're looking at brainwashed robots, not children.  JB and Michelle are horrible.

That's what i see too and I figure she's been brainwashed to the extent that she feels that praying is the way to deal with any depression problems, that and putting on a good countenance. I think she believes that there's probably a sin problem since she has everything she's been told she ever wanted. Problem is that she's fragile from the Josh information getting out, probably has a bit of post-partum depression, and while she wants to be a missionary, she's finding being away from all that she knows and alone with a baby and a new-ish husband in a foreign country to be lonely and difficult. 

Derick seems to care very much about her, but I'm not sure that he isn't just as brainwashed in terms to seeking help for her mental health.

Joy was the one that was distressing to me in the bit I saw last night. All the light and spark is gone from her. She isn't/isn't allowed to continue her education and is resigned to hanging out at the house until some guy comes to scoop her up so she can get started making babies. I don't know if she's really dumb or just playing dumb, but she's obviously not happy with the limited choices that have been handed to her.

[Sew Sumi]

Interesting how Derick used God as an "out" to stay in the States. Truth be told, I agree that they should never return; even a week-long missioncation could trigger Jill at this point. She's even more fragile than any of us realized in recent clips when you could tell *something* was wrong. 

Pregnancy is about the only excuse I think Derick sees as legitimate enough to not make his attempted foray into the life of a missionary to not be a failure. As others have pointed out, all the signs were there that this might not be a good idea for Jill, but she did her Good Christian Wifely Duty and followed him on his dream. I think it's time for Derick to get his head out of the clouds and look at Jill for who she really is, and I'm afraid he may be tempted to return to Danger America if there's no pregnancy in the next month. I give this timeframe because of the early December missioncations (one of which the Duggars have gone on for years). They're pretty much expected there, but if Jill turns up pregnant, Derick can at least fulfill that part of his work and leave Jill in the States. I think it would be one time that she wouldn't mind the separation. But after that, he needs to cut the cord and find some missionary work closer to home. And he could say that's how God led him. It's a win-win for him. 

[Marigold]

Jill is CRYING about her missionary situation, obviously frightened, he even acknowledges that it is dangerous and he just keeps on doing it!!!!

If a spouse/partner sees the other in emotional or physical distress, you do something!!! Not Derick.  He puts his arm around his sobbing wife and has plans to return. hello? 

I'm sorry but that is really sick. That is one fucked up marriage. 

Yes, Jill has a host of problems (for numerous reasons) but that is a marriage/relationship.  When one person falls, the other helps them up.  You don't kick them when they are down. 

I'm so disappointed with Derick. He is so self involved with his little missionary fantasy and martyr complex.

We got a glimpse of him when he hit his sled into the cat and laughed. Cruel to the cat and I see it as very cruel to insist on doing missionary work in CA when clearly it is upsetting his wife.  

Derick can do missionary work in the USA, but guys, that does not work for his martyr complex.  Derick needs to be in a super dangerous place so everyone can look at him and be all impressed with what a courageous Christian he is. He needs to feel that he is important.  In reality, Derick is only doing what is good for Derick because any fool can see that this is NOT a good place for Jill and consequently, Izzy suffers when Jill is all messed up.  

I just added Derick to my scummy Duggar list, right after Jim Bob and Josh. 

[Sew Sumi]

If Derick wants to save some brown people living in a culture of violence, he can head up to the South Side of Chicago. Except I think that he thinks he gets more Jesus Brownie Points by "saving" people who don't speak his first language. 

I understand WHY he had to deflect the question about returning to Danger America: give the leghumpers the Jesusy reasoning they want. I wish he would have been an adult and leveled with the viewers. I am curious what plans they have between them if something actually happens to him. Return to her family? What else could it be? It took me two seconds to figure that out. But he emphatically said that those plans were "between them," and he wouldn't divulge them. 

Edited October 26, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[lookeyloo]

I posted upthread that when Derrick asked Jill what her goals for the coming year were, she said "the same as yours".  so, being as unenlightened as he appears to be, and maybe she keeps telling him she will go back, he is too dense to read between the lines and listen to what she is not saying and how she is behaving.  She of course, has no skills to say to him "I am afraid to be alone.  We can't go back", etc. etc.  Maybe he is flattered by the clinging vine.  So much pathology.

[Marigold]

2 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

If Derick wants to save some brown people living in a culture of violence, he can head up to the South Side of Chicago. Except I think that he thinks he gets more Jesus Brownie Points by "saving" people who don't speak his first language. 

 

Of course.

But Derick is not just any old missionary serving in the USA!!!!   He is a DANGEROUS area with PEOPLE OF COLOR and he is speaking SPANISH.   He is such a brave Christian that he is risking his life to spread the gospel. 

That gives you so many fundy points in their world, I can't even tell you! 

Derick is one bad ass missionary!  He is the most bad ass missionary I have ever seen.  Did you know that he is suffering for Christ?! Daily!!!! He suffers for Christ daily.  What are YOU doing for Christ? Yeah, that's what I thought.  nothing, compared to Derick the Bad Ass Missionary.  Derick is a hard core missionary.  I wish my faith was a strong as his. 

[Sew Sumi]

Haha, I addressed all of those points, including the language issue. Trying to learn a second language (I doubt he preached in it) makes him a SOOOOPER SPESHUL SNOWFLAKE in Fundieland. 

[Churchhoney]

They all married fantasies. Everybody does, to an extent, of course. But the fantasies here have way less relationship to reality than they usually do. The disjoint is so extreme in the Duggar marriages that nobody can get their minds around it. Hey, I filled out a 50-page questionnaire on this! We must be perfectly matched! We'll just have to push it a little harder!

And then on top of that, they all had big fantasy visions of what their futures would be like -- much more fantastic and unreal than most people have at their ages. So reality is crashing into those visions, too, adding another huge problem none of them knows how to cope with.

What a mess.

And hooray for courtship! And hooray for thinking that you're God's chosen people so you're totes blessed and your completely unreality-based visions of your futures are totes blessed too! And hooray for believing that you can pray it all away! Since those fervent beliefs caused all these disasters. .... And yet I doubt anybody's even got the guts to question any of those things at this point. All they can do is feel lost and confused and keep on doing the wrong stuff.

And they get to do it on television. I think that would make me feel much worse. But who knows how it affects the Duggars?

What a mess.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Marigold]

9 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

I posted upthread that when Derrick asked Jill what her goals for the coming year were, she said "the same as yours".  so, being as unenlightened as he appears to be, and maybe she keeps telling him she will go back, he is too dense to read between the lines and listen to what she is not saying and how she is behaving.  She of course, has no skills to say to him "I am afraid to be alone.  We can't go back", etc. etc.  Maybe he is flattered by the clinging vine.  So much pathology.

I agree with that.  He is really stupid and dense. He might not get it and Jill cannot express herself and might not even really realize she has an opinion. 

But the crying?  Like, doesn't that tip Derick off that Jill is unhappy?  Tears = sadness or fear.  The viewers don't even know Jill and we are aware she is miserable.  

At some point, when your spouse sobs often, don't you think "hey, something is wrong here. Maybe things aren't going as well as I though? My wife is always crying"  Not Derick!  He just keeps on thinking about Derick and how admired he is by everyone! Jill is crying?  huh? well she said she is happy so I will ignore the crying.  Look at me! Look at me!   

[Annb67]

2 hours ago, lianau said:

23. Would you be willing to die for Christ? If you’re not dying daily, how can you be so sure you would then?

Huh?? Is this The Walking Dead now ? Groundhog Day ?

What....the....hell? Guys this cult shit. Like Jim Jones stuff. I always thought it was weird, kooky and damaging, but THIS?! 

[Tabbygirl521]

21 hours ago, tabloidlover said:

PTSD from a shower rack????    Are these people for friggin real????

I am going to give Jill the benefit of the doubt here. I went through a couple of very challenging years that did not even involve any kind of danger or violence. I still got very, very jumpy at times. My sister has been in this mode too at times - very, very easily startled from having been amped up to deal with life stresses. 

 If Jill and Derrick were on edge due to hearing frequent gunfire, I can easily imagine a loud nearby crash scaring them badly. Jill seems very fragile and Derick seems concerned and attentive about her. I feel that they experienced, or were very close to, something legimitately frightening. 

[GeeGolly]

There are so many explanations and non-explanations for Jill's reaction for the shower fixture incident of 2016. Like other posters have said, most of us have been scared or startled by a noise, and then laughed about it later. She may be scared, hyper alert and experience anticipatory anxiety when in CA, but crying about a non-incident days or months later is not a typical response for anyone, even someone with an anxiety disorder or PTSD. I think it is more likely that they are not sharing the details of a significant event, and Jill recalled this event when telling the bathroom story. Other than that, Jill's tearful presentation while sharing what would be a comical story for most folks, is very atypical. 

[Fuzzysox]

19 hours ago, tabloidlover said:

She was still so visibly shaken months later and this is after she knows the cause was a shower rack falling????  Something is not right with Jill and she seriously needs to see a professional STAT.

I'm starting to think that there is something wrong with Derick and if he is sick she will be left alone. Her fundie perfect wedding/dream will be just a distant dream if indeed something happened to Derick. Where would her place in the world be then? Her whole self-image is being the perfect fundie daughter now wife and mother. SMH I don't know how else to think about her mental state after what we witnessed. Yes, I'm taking PPD into the mix. Girl needs some medical intervention, not being left alone to pray away her problems.

[Churchhoney]

39 minutes ago, Fuzzysox said:

I'm starting to think that there is something wrong with Derick and if he is sick she will be left alone. Her fundie perfect wedding/dream will be just a distant dream if indeed something happened to Derick. Where would her place in the world be then? Her whole self-image is being the perfect fundie daughter now wife and mother. SMH I don't know how else to think about her mental state after what we witnessed. Yes, I'm taking PPD into the mix. Girl needs some medical intervention, not being left alone to pray away her problems.

Unfortunately, all the Duggar lifestyle/philosophy does for offspring is let them fall into trouble. Big trouble. Of numerous kinds Does nothing at all to help them get out of it. .... Unless praying harder and ignoring things help.

And don't bother the patriarch and matriarch with your issues. The matriarch needs to make a Starbucks run. And the patriarch needs you to cook him up a big mess of bacon and eggs.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Absolom]

Unfortunately I think something as trivial as a shower device falling could send Jill around the bend.  She was the one who who was terrified of having her wisdom teeth taken out and was clinging to Jim Bob.  I remember Erin Bates (I think it was) falling apart over a thunder storm and maybe a tornado watch.  The Gothardites tend to foster the falling apart near hysterical behavior in some of their daughters.  I don't think Jill has changed much since the wisdom teeth incident.  She is not sturdy emotionally and never has been.  The regular stress of power and water outages, isolation, and even regularly hearing of problems in the country even if she hasn't experienced them could overwhelm someone so fragile.  She had trouble living in a house a relatively short drive from her parents.

[bigskygirl]

I find it interesting Derick mentioned isolation when it comes to what they were supposedly doing in Central America. Jill was isolated from the real world long before Derick came into the picture. Jill was allowed only to be around her kind of people. She was clinging to Derick big time while he was working at Wally World. He should have saw the writing on the wall before he went into courtship with Jill. It was interesting to see Jill and Derick together with the other couples because they both seem very uncomfortable and not happy to be there. I also watched their reaction to Izzy coming into the room with Ben and Jessa's reaction to Spurge coming into the room. Spurge was getting the love and Izzy was an after thought to Jill and Derick. I also thought it was interesting when Jessa mention the fact Izzy does not like to share things with Spurge, and Derick was saying they were working on it. Imo, I am not seeing a happy marriage and family.

[MarysWetBar]

3 hours ago, Clemgo3165 said:

That's what i see too and I figure she's been brainwashed to the extent that she feels that praying is the way to deal with any depression problems, that and putting on a good countenance. I think she believes that there's probably a sin problem since she has everything she's been told she ever wanted. Problem is that she's fragile from the Josh information getting out, probably has a bit of post-partum depression, and while she wants to be a missionary, she's finding being away from all that she knows and alone with a baby and a new-ish husband in a foreign country to be lonely and difficult. 

Derick seems to care very much about her, but I'm not sure that he isn't just as brainwashed in terms to seeking help for her mental health.

Joy was the one that was distressing to me in the bit I saw last night. All the light and spark is gone from her. She isn't/isn't allowed to continue her education and is resigned to hanging out at the house until some guy comes to scoop her up so she can get started making babies. I don't know if she's really dumb or just playing dumb, but she's obviously not happy with the limited choices that have been handed to her.

 

 

3 hours ago, Clemgo3165 said:

That's what i see too and I figure she's been brainwashed to the extent that she feels that praying is the way to deal with any depression problems, that and putting on a good countenance. I think she believes that there's probably a sin problem since she has everything she's been told she ever wanted. Problem is that she's fragile from the Josh information getting out, probably has a bit of post-partum depression, and while she wants to be a missionary, she's finding being away from all that she knows and alone with a baby and a new-ish husband in a foreign country to be lonely and difficult. 

Derick seems to care very much about her, but I'm not sure that he isn't just as brainwashed in terms to seeking help for her mental health.

Joy was the one that was distressing to me in the bit I saw last night. All the light and spark is gone from her. She isn't/isn't allowed to continue her education and is resigned to hanging out at the house until some guy comes to scoop her up so she can get started making babies. I don't know if she's really dumb or just playing dumb, but she's obviously not happy with the limited choices that have been handed to her.

I think there is more going on with Joy besides being one point above a total illiterate. Kinda surprised she hasn't been sent to Alert, to be honest.

I get the Josiah vibe from her. 

Edited October 27, 2016 by MarysWetBar

[riverblue22]

Maybe Jilly Muffin should have been the stay-at-home daughter taking care of the parents.  Isn't she Boob's favorite?  This adulthood stuff seems pretty overwhelming for her.

[Annb67]

3 hours ago, PradaKitty said:

I found it interesting that both Derrick and Jeremy referred to Jim Bob as "Jim Bob", but Ben referred to him as "Mr. Duggar".

Because Ben is his unemployed loser Bitch

[MarysWetBar]

We are seeing the result of the way these kids were raised. I would bet none of the others would be any better than Jill. Jessa is smug because she lives so close to home and nothing has changed other than the 3 minutes of dicking she gets daily. Nothing.

Wait until nervous raccoon moves to Laredo. She'll fall right apart too. 

They should just marry their fucking brothers and be done with it.

God forbid Derrick wants to move to danger America or Dim Bin wants to mix and mingle at the diversity cafe.

Their parents ruined these kids.

They aren't even fit for other fundies, obviously.

So sad.

[Annb67]

36 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Unfortunately I think something as trivial as a shower device falling could send Jill around the bend.  She was the one who who was terrified of having her wisdom teeth taken out and was clinging to Jim Bob.  I remember Erin Bates (I think it was) falling apart over a thunder storm and maybe a tornado watch.  The Gothardites tend to foster the falling apart near hysterical behavior in some of their daughters.  I don't think Jill has changed much since the wisdom teeth incident.  She is not sturdy emotionally and never has been.  The regular stress of power and water outages, isolation, and even regularly hearing of problems in the country even if she hasn't experienced them could overwhelm someone so fragile.  She had trouble living in a house a relatively short drive from her parents.

That whole wisdom teeth scenario was freaking BIZARRE I have never seen something like that in her age group and I'm a nurse. God forbid if something serious were to happen, and she's a midwife?? 

[lulu69]

4 hours ago, lianau said:

23. Would you be willing to die for Christ? If you’re not dying daily, how can you be so sure you would then?

Huh?? Is this The Walking Dead now ? Groundhog Day ?

In a manner of speaking, Jill is dying daily, emotionally. Maybe this is why she's so reluctant to tell Derick 'no' to CA. She would be saying 'no' to Christ's plan for them.

Edited October 27, 2016 by lulu69
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[cereality]

I don't mean to give Derick the benefit of the doubt, but I feel like there's a very real possibility that he's overwhelmed with Jill and doesn't know what to do -- so he ignores the situation, prays about it, and convinces himself that the Lord is putting them thru this "test."

Here's a guy with ZERO game. He wasn't able to attract a girlfriend despite going to a big state u in the south and hanging out with the football team, cheerleaders, and band his entire 4 yrs there. He needs an arranged marriage. He likely believes -- if I get an arranged marriage to the type of girl with the same values as me, whose family approves, and we are both committed to the marriage -- it will work and we will grow to love each other; I'm from an Asian culture where there are still (some) arranged marriages and this is the rationale -- that with enough common values, faith and family blessings, you grow to love a partner picked by your family. So ok -- he gets Jill.

Little does he realize though -- he's getting a girl (not a woman) with an 8th grade education at best; with no friends except her sisters; with no hobbies or interests of her own - though I guess midwifery and birthing might count; with no joy or happiness in her life; with no exposure to the world - even TV or foods like hummus; who had been molested by her brother; and with the view that the husband is the headship and she will do whatever he says. So he marries her, realizes how she's more like a 12 yr old -- does what he can to expose her to Nepali food; football; his friends etc. to show her regular life. His lifelong goal has been to be a missionary and he likely shared those with her when they were courting and she talked a big game about how much she LOVED her 4 days in Nepal and would LOVE TO live abroad and convert the heathens. So he takes her word for it, seeks out a mission and only after he gets there he realizes she's scared TO DEATH by everything probably since she doesn't go to Walmart without her sisters and now has to navigate life many hours away from them.

Yet if he asks her, I bet you she -- thru her tears -- says no, no it's fine, this is where the Lord wants us. Only reason I think this is bc he directly asked her, what are your goals for next yr and without missing a beat she says -- the same as yours, what are yours. Um -- ok -- well my goal is to continue a mission, is that ok; um -- totally. Any "normal" woman -- even a fundie -- would have said (off camera), look I know this is your passion and I've dealt with it for almost a yr, but I'm not enjoying it and my goal is to be back in the US fulltime. And then husband and wife would discuss it, compromise -- maybe they decide to do it for x more yrs and that's it; maybe they decide back to the US, but the husband goes back a few times a yr for mission trips, or whatever other compromise. But with him being overwhelmed by so many things re her emotional state and having zero intuition about women + her forcing herself to say she wants whatever her headship wants -- I can kind of see how they ended up this way . . . .