S04.E14: Till Death Do Us Part

[Gem 10]

35 minutes ago, film noire said:

I wouldn't bet on Nick being a good provider -- men like Nick (withholding, immature, and emotionally abusive when upset) don't suddenly turn generous with money -- they usually use is as a weapon/means of control. And Nick thinking relationships should just happen without needing work is such a red flag as to what he'd be willing to give out, imo -- whether it be financial support or (as you say) emotional validation.

I think the best part of the season finale is this part of the recap:

"... we're almost done hearing all the euphemisms everyone uses for Nick's outburst at Sonia five episodes ago. "Sonia's frustrated in some parts of her marriage." You mean the part where her husband told her he didn't like her? "Sonia's learning how to forgive probably like she's never had to before." True: before, she never had a TV production force her to continue spending time with someone who told her he didn't like her. Sonia was "so emotionally taken aback by everything." "Everything" is a very concise way of describing "that time I told her I didn't like her," NICK. Sonia doesn't owe Nick anything like the kind of consideration she's given TO SOMEONE WHO TOLD HER HE DIDN'T LIKE HER. "But they're legally married!" Fuck off, "experts": you don't have to spend time with people who tell you to your face that they don't like you, I don't care how married you are."

Amen.  

YES !  Couldn't have said it better.

[gonecrackers]

4 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Lily is hooked on somethin' somethin', and I don't mean Tom's bus. 

I like clocks, too, and have little Waterford and Wedgwood ones, plus a cute "Peanuts" alarm clock. But for that moment, I think Nick had the right idea.

The clock: http://www.uberbazaar.com/clocks/table-clock-with-white-intricate-design-roman-numerals

Good thing for Tom's bus maintenance that there exist materialists who own yachts. Heh.

I love our cuckoo clock :). 

I don't like that the clock is metal; wood would be much nicer, but that's my personal taste.

[BunnySlippers]

5 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Good thing for Tom's bus maintenance that there exist materialists who own yachts. Heh.

 

LOL, that's an excellent point. Also, I think that clock is ugly and I'm surprised he bought something like that. The design on the face doesn't look very minimalist to me. ;)

[izabella]

15 minutes ago, BunnySlippers said:

LOL, that's an excellent point. Also, I think that clock is ugly and I'm surprised he bought something like that. The design on the face doesn't look very minimalist to me. ;)

It looks like a clock someone's grandma has on her mantel.  Maybe he didn't buy it, but found it during a reno of grandma's yacht interior.

[BunnySlippers]

37 minutes ago, izabella said:

It looks like a clock someone's grandma has on her mantel.  Maybe he didn't buy it, but found it during a reno of grandma's yacht interior.

LOL! I think I can imagine that. :D

[Miss Chevious]

I agree the gift Nick gave Sonia was pretty cheesy. A very thin chain with no pendant. He could have done a lot better, especially for someone who is putting up with all his BS. Sonia's gifts to him cracked me up. Passive-aggressive, anyone? I can't believe she told the world he manscapes.

As for Sonia/Nick deciding to stay married, it was unexpected for me as it was not what I thought would happen. I thought for sure she's not going to want to stay with someone who isn't into her and shows more signs of affection to his dogs than he does his wife. All his talk about friendship first is baloney too. Glaciers move faster than he ever will. They don't make a good couple and I hope she has the good sense to bolt after the show is over.

As for Lily/Tom, I'm not too sure they're going to make it in the long run either. For all their lovey-doveyness now, it's going to wear thin when she wants kids and he doesn't. He's already said they would put a crimp in his lifestyle. Lily is good sport who's put up with a lot, dirty feet, no A/C in the bus, etc. but I think this issue will be a dealbreaker.

[gonecrackers]

This 'decision day' seemed even more disjointed than the others. I was wondering if they all met beforehand, had the decision already on the table, then there was some direction given as to how to present it so as to mislead a bit. However, no one involved is a good enough actor to  pull that off, so then there was some really choppy editing taking out pieces of conversation & splicing here & there.

As for the gifts, especially the clock, Lily is really the only one needing to be happy with it, & even if she didn't like it she did seem to appreciate the thought behind it. However, I do think it's a good point about it being an odd gift choice from someone who has constantly espoused the minimalist lifestyle. My guess is he thinks a clock is at least useful.

Edited October 28, 2016 by gonecrackers

[Jellybeans]

When I saw the clock, I thought he was indicating their relationship had a time limit on it LOL.

[watch2much]

After watching this episode and the "experts" advice, I have even more respect for Heather deciding to protect herself and to get out as soon as possible.  They are trying to convince these couples to stay with people that would have been weeded out early in a normal dating process.  They were supposed to have been matched based on some compatibility, but what that was is not apparent...just their differences.

[Kiss my mutt]

On 10/26/2016 at 11:16 AM, Drogo said:

My comment was more that he didn't have to earn any of his wife's love/affection because she just gave it to him.  (Note: this isn't just about how quickly they had sex though that's part of it.)  It may sound antiquated but in my life I had to work for her love, I had to show her I deserved her.  And many moons later I still know I'm lucky to have her and I know that she could be gone tomorrow if I don't keep on appreciating her.  Maybe it's me.  When I cook a meal myself it tastes better than if I go to a restaurant and a plate is put in front of me.  I'd rather save up and buy a car than have one given to me.

It's nothing to do with Lily's hair or her body or society's definition of traditional beauty; I've known 10's who I didn't want to even kiss and 4's that took over my dreams.  Lily is a beautiful girl, but the only value you have in life is the value you assign to yourself. 

Moreover, I just don't see any shared priorities between the two.  My beloved and I come from very different backgrounds and we have different primary and secondary "love languages" - but we also share many of the same values and wants.  We both wanted our own family, we both work very hard, we both stand up vehemently for things we believe in and defend people who can't defend themselves, we both want to be appreciated.  I love and respect the things about her that aren't true about me and vice versa, I don't just tolerate or avoid them as Tom and Lily seem to be doing with their differences.

That said, I also think "major lifestyle differences" are not easy to compromise, and they were a terrible match on the part of The Experts.  

Okay, I just swooned a little bit for you and your wife. :)

[gonecrackers]

2 hours ago, Jellybeans said:

When I saw the clock, I thought he was indicating their relationship had a time limit on it LOL.

Oh, uh, wow... who knows with Tom eh? LOL

2 hours ago, watch2much said:

After watching this episode and the "experts" advice, I have even more respect for Heather deciding to protect herself and to get out as soon as possible.  They are trying to convince these couples to stay with people that would have been weeded out early in a normal dating process.  They were supposed to have been matched based on some compatibility, but what that was is not apparent...just their differences.

Yes I agree. And that's why Heather got such a heavy bitch edit; she wasn't playing.

[Passthepopcorn]

18 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

I'm actually not offended by the clock.  I think the meaning is sweet.  There is an interview on People's magazine's online site and Lilly says this:  We did a gift exchange and Tom gave me a clock representing “time” — the time we have to get to know each other and grow together.  Tom said:  I decided to get Lilly a clock because from the beginning I’ve always said all we have is time. And looking back, it was time well spent. She really appreciated the metaphor.

That sounds like they've split up. Would he say that if they were still together?

I didn't think much of the clock, since the gifts were supposed to be small gifts. Lily gave him a handmade craft. All in all, I thought the gift exchange was unnecessary and they were told to do it. 

By the way, when people end up in divorce in this show and then say "I don't regret it", "I'm glad I did it", I find it hard to believe. Yes, I'm sure they've learned things about themselves, had some good times, etc. But they go through a whole wedding with their entire family and friends, on TV and then get the "divorced" title for nothing. Nothing meaning they spent only a few weeks with their spouse, who they barely got to know. In some cases, they didn't even get intimate and now they are divorced. Tough task to explain that to their next partner. Sounds pretty regrettable if you ask me.

[Passthepopcorn]

4 hours ago, Miss Chevious said:

 All his talk about friendship first is baloney too.

The constant "build a friendship" talk would have turn me off too. I understand that this is a peculiar situation and  I agree they shouldn't jump to sex immediately (or jump to marriage for that matter, but well, peculiar situation).

But, if  I'm interested in someone in a romantic way I'm not looking for friendship. I'm looking to get to know him, to be close to him. I don't expect him to be looking for friendship either. I actually expect him to dread being put in a friend category. Friend is something else, friend is my brother. 

Now, he will end up being a friend as part of being my partner. The whole thing: my husband, my lover, my companion. My best friend even. But that is not what we were aiming at. 

Yep, it kind of bothered me. Friends, for what? Are you interested or not?

Edited October 28, 2016 by Passthepopcorn

[psychoticstate]

30 minutes ago, Passthepopcorn said:

That sounds like they've split up. Would he say that if they were still together?

I didn't think much of the clock, since the gifts were supposed to be small gifts. Lily gave him a handmade craft. All in all, I thought the gift exchange was unnecessary and they were told to do it. 

By the way, when people end up in divorce in this show and then say "I don't regret it", "I'm glad I did it", I find it hard to believe. Yes, I'm sure they've learned things about themselves, had some good times, etc. But they go through a whole wedding with their entire family and friends, on TV and then get the "divorced" title for nothing. Nothing meaning they spent only a few weeks with their spouse, who they barely got to know. In some cases, they didn't even get intimate and now they are divorced. Tough task to explain that to their next partner. Sounds pretty regrettable if you ask me.

Hmmm, I'm wondering if he meant the six weeks was time well spent but they haven't broken up?  No idea really. 

The gift exchange really wasn't necessary.  I thought the idea/future board made more sense. 

I'm with you, Popcorn, that there has to be some regret if this MAFS thing doesn't work.  It's one thing to meet someone, get to know them, get married and then it doesn't work.  Maybe you can say you have no regrets if you entered the relationship with an open heart, tried, your child(ren) was/were a result, etc. but explaining your first marriage away as ending after a few days (Derek and Heather) or six or so weeks (the others) would be surprising and maybe even a deal breaker for some people.  Of course I always wonder what a 24 year old is doing on this show.  How many possible avenues could you have exhausted to find a partner at that age?  And why do you want so badly to be married at that age?  (And this isn't directed just at Lilly; anyone under 30 I give the side eye to)

[Empress1]

Heather totally regrets this, you can tell, and I don't blame her. As I said elsewhere in this thread, if this hadn't been on TV I bet she wouldn't even tell people she'd done it or been married.

[Passthepopcorn]

13 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Heather totally regrets this, you can tell, and I don't blame her. As I said elsewhere in this thread, if this hadn't been on TV I bet she wouldn't even tell people she'd done it or been married.

Agree. It has to suck. On top of everything it is public.

[Passthepopcorn]

22 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

I'm with you, Popcorn, that there has to be some regret if this MAFS thing doesn't work.  It's one thing to meet someone, get to know them, get married and then it doesn't work.  Maybe you can say you have no regrets if you entered the relationship with an open heart, tried, your child(ren) was/were a result, etc. but explaining your first marriage away as ending after a few days (Derek and Heather) or six or so weeks (the others) would be surprising and maybe even a deal breaker for some people.  

Exactly. Those are real relationships. They loved each other, they chose each other, they built something. It didn't work, but at least it is valid. It happens. People will understand, many will relate. Their new partner won't judge their judgment as much as if you said "I married in a reality tv show, was married for x weeks". Ouch.

[LennieBriscoe]

There was a young woman named Heather,

Whose marriage went under the weather!

Husband Derek kept smoking;

She would drink (was he toking?).

So she skedaddled, Hell-bent for leather!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There was a young surfer named Tom,

Whose bus life he thought was the bomb!

Lilly's job caused some tension:

Though she paid Tom attention,

He needed it ALL, said his Mom!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Airbnb entered Nick,

For whom Sonia "experts" did pick.

Nick's emotions didn't stir;

He'd smooch dogs but not her!

He opined, "Not attractive!" The.....creep!

[MsPH]

13 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Lily is hooked on somethin' somethin', and I don't mean Tom's bus. 

I like clocks, too, and have little Waterford and Wedgwood ones, plus a cute "Peanuts" alarm clock. But for that moment, I think Nick had the right idea.

The clock: http://www.uberbazaar.com/clocks/table-clock-with-white-intricate-design-roman-numerals

Good thing for Tom's bus maintenance that there exist materialists who own yachts. Heh.

 

Wow, who knew an ugly fake old clock could be so expensive.

[KateHearts]

On 10/26/2016 at 8:01 PM, Paddywagon said:

Tom's found a career where he can make good money with enough to save and still have all the freedom he wants.  He doesn't have to wait for retirement, he can travel and go wherever he wants.  

There was no suggestion throughout the entire season that he ever really went to work.  Then again, if he wants to live a life hanging out in a half-finished bus in his bare feet, going to surf (because you know, the ocean is his blood), then I guess he doesn't need much to finance that lifestyle.

[Evil Queen]

2 hours ago, KateHearts said:

There was no suggestion throughout the entire season that he ever really went to work.  Then again, if he wants to live a life hanging out in a half-finished bus in his bare feet, going to surf (because you know, the ocean is his blood), then I guess he doesn't need much to finance that lifestyle.

I take it he works enough to pay for his spot in the mobile home/rv park he puts his bus in and to survive basically. Considering how he had said his income was different each year I took it as he works sort of like some in construction do. His could be under a certain boss/company but he only works as the jobs come in so he could have free time to do whatever he wants many days until a job comes in or that he works a few days a week doing it...or it could be a set schedule of 5 days 8 hrs or less days but I take it from his income difference each year being that he works as jobs come. My husband worked in construction for many years doing it as a 5 day a week/8 hrs a day job and before that he had done it when the jobs came both under a boss/company situation. For someone like Tom he made enough to eat, have a spot to keep the bus, and keep himself up with surfboards as needed. LOL Nothing wrong with it at all but just not a good mix with someone like Lily at all. Yet if that bus could have a different bed put in, the a/c working at all times and agreed to live in a house/apartment but take the bus out on their shared days off or vacations here and there it might be a different store. It will just depend on if he can deal with not being the center of her world all the time because she does have a more demanding career. As for it not being on the show in some way, there could be reasons for it...not enough jobs during the time or it just wasn't allowed for him to be filmed doing it...which is probably the case. 

Edited October 29, 2016 by Evil Queen

[Blissfool]

On 10/27/2016 at 6:36 PM, Gem 10 said:

I know I'm being "pickey", but after watching the last episode for the second time, I noticed what Lily was wearing to the breakfast with Nick & Sonia.  Her top had a "v" all the way down to her navel and her girls and red bra were practically in Nicks face who was sitting right across from her.  I'm sure all the guys loved it, but not too classy for. A breakfast.  More like for sitting at a bar.

I noticed it immediately and thought Lily wanted to be THE sexy female and make the other husband  (Nick) wish he had been matched with her.

I couldn't believe Nick and Sonia wore those corny tshirts.

On 10/27/2016 at 6:55 PM, psychoticstate said:

I'm actually not offended by the clock.  I think the meaning is sweet.  There is an interview on People's magazine's online site and Lilly says this:  We did a gift exchange and Tom gave me a clock representing “time” — the time we have to get to know each other and grow together.  Tom said:  I decided to get Lilly a clock because from the beginning I’ve always said all we have is time. And looking back, it was time well spent. She really appreciated the metaphor.

Didn't one of the wives give her husband a watch with a similar note on their wedding day?

12 hours ago, Miss Chevious said:

 I can't believe she told the world he manscapes.

Of course he does. I think we all already knew that deep down inside.

[lazylou]

Did anyone besides me feel surprised that the tease for the reunion show makes a point that Nick is not wearing his ring?  I would be amazed if those two are still together at the six month mark...but I am surprised  that the preview lets the cat out of the bag.  Maybe that means they are still together, who knows.

Actually, though, the show makes a big deal out of the fact this is a "real" marriage and the couples will have to go through a legal divorce...so why not make the producers happy and opt to stay together at the six week mark...especially when you are not living together anyway.  

One other thing...does anyone besides me find that Jamie's interviews are a good addition to the show?

[Empress1]

9 hours ago, Blissfool said:

Of course he [manscapes] I think we all already knew that deep down inside.

Is that even something dudes keep secret anymore? A metrosexual man isn't novel these days, especially in Miami. I like a man who puts some work into his appearance; we have that in common. Although it's odd to me that Nick clearly takes care of himself (grooming, he has a gym body) but dresses so casually.

[bichonblitz]

So how long do we have to wait before we find out if these couples are still together? I'm sure their contract states when they are allowed to start posting on social media.... 

[Stillhoping]

Pepper said in beginning both Nick And Tom  were doing well financially...she did NOT say that about Derek.  Google FtLauderdale boat show...Miami boat show...

Nick is doing ok too...his houses are in a good area.

Derek sleeps on a mattress on the floor rental apt...and i bet he is atelemarketer or some sort of salesman.   

I have a theory that Nick really became even colder to Sonia when he learned of her student loans etc debt and her salary.  My other theory is that Sonia might have problems meeting guys ...noble helping profession yes but not one were u meet a lot of eligible guys.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Stillhoping

[bichonblitz]

1 hour ago, Stillhoping said:

I still do not understand why some think Tom is broke. Yacht biz is pretty specialized and can be lucrative. I posted before...he stated on instagram he is a licenced yacht. Marine broker also and told someone there call him he can sell any vessel on the multilust. There are tons of people here w real estate license but u have to know boats to sell them.

My husband was a yacht broker here in Florida before retiring and while you can make money, you have to want to work your ass off.  I don't see Tom doing that. It's a lot like real estate. Showing yachts (often on weekends) and answering your email and phone all the time if you are going to be successful. Didn't Tom say he doesn't respond after 6pm? You get what you put in and it's strictly commission, no benefits and no health insurance. It's all on you as an independent contractor. Lily understands that. Don't think the same goes for Tom. 

Edited October 29, 2016 by bichonblitz

[Kira53]

On 10/25/2016 at 11:59 PM, Gem 10 said:

I just don't get it.  Nick tells Sonia to her face that he's not attracted to her and just doesn't like her.  How could she move back and then stay married to him?  He's very weird.  Kissing them dogs every minute .. Letting them sleep in the bed.  Then Lily and Tom.   I know she cares for him, but not wanting kids from her is a big deal, at least to me .. And then that stuff that he wants to live life NOW and go on the bus a lot and not change his lifestyle is also asking too much.  Is she afraid she won't find another guy if she ends it with Tom.  It's not. Like she's old .. She's still in her middle twenties.  I think both girls are desperate.

I suppose that I were one of them I would try to just ride it out for a few more weeks since I am already married.  If I was dating i wouldn't continue the relationship.  The divorce can't be granted before 6 months anyway, so I'd think that I might as well try for a few more weeks.  I mean 6 weeks to try to develop a relationship is a very short time, especially if you you have to remain married to them for 6 months anyway. Don't want to have any regrets and you have to bear the impact of divorce and admitting that you married on a TV show anyway so you might as well continue to try on your own terms.  I'd let NIck try to romance me and not move in.  

[LazyToaster]

The whole dramatic Decision Day was such melodramatic crap.  The "experts" kept saying things like - Do You Want To Stay Married -OR- Do You Want To Get A Divorce.  The pronouncement sounded like life or death - they may as well of said - Do You Want To Live Happily Ever After -OR- Do You Want To Die A Slow And Painful Death.  Freaking crazy talk.  First of all - whatever they decide can be undecided in 50 years or tomorrow - nothing is signed in blood no matter how solemn they make the moment.  It made them all look ridiculous IMHO. 

Another thing that bothered me (of course, what didn't - ha!) is that Nick seemed really nervous that Sonia would say divorce and I couldn't help but think he was sincere.  But, then when she said she wanted to stay married - I do think he was pleased and relieved - and yet, even for the Introvert Nick - why wouldn't that be a moment to show some type of affection - take her hand, give her a hug, squeeze her shoulder, good lord man - kiss your wife why don't you?  My family doctor shows me more affection (he's a great shoulder patter and hand squeezer) than Nick does to Sonia - you know, his WIFE?

[Snarklepuss]

7 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

My husband was a yacht broker here in Florida before retiring and while you can make money, you have to want to work your ass off.  I don't see Tom doing that. It's a lot like real estate. Showing yachts (often on weekends) and answering your email and phone all the time if you are going to be successful. Didn't Tom say he doesn't respond after 6pm? You get what you put in and it's strictly commission, no benefits and no health insurance. It's all on you as an independent contractor. Lily understands that. Don't think the same goes for Tom. 

What bothered me is that Tom made it sound like he was more available for the relationship than Lilly because he makes time for it, when we all know his relative availability is because he likes to have fun first, while work is second, or even third.

1 hour ago, LazyToaster said:

The whole dramatic Decision Day was such melodramatic crap.  The "experts" kept saying things like - Do You Want To Stay Married -OR- Do You Want To Get A Divorce.  The pronouncement sounded like life or death - they may as well of said - Do You Want To Live Happily Ever After -OR- Do You Want To Die A Slow And Painful Death.  Freaking crazy talk.  First of all - whatever they decide can be undecided in 50 years or tomorrow - nothing is signed in blood no matter how solemn they make the moment.  It made them all look ridiculous IMHO.

Not to mention the loud OTT melodramatic music, constant rehashing and repetition.  It was worse than a South American soap opera.  If not for having DVR'ed it and thus able to fast forward, I would have wanted to throw a shoe through my TV screen, it was THAT bad.

[Vinyasa]

I just watched the part when Tom/Lily and Sonia/Nick meet for the first time at the restaurant.

Lily is wearing a diamond ring in addition to the wedding ring. She is left handed and it was really noticeable when she had the fork in her hand.

Did anyone else notice?

[Jellybeans]

1 hour ago, Vinyasa said:

I just watched the part when Tom/Lily and Sonia/Nick meet for the first time at the restaurant.

Lily is wearing a diamond ring in addition to the wedding ring. She is left handed and it was really noticeable when she had the fork in her hand.

Did anyone else notice?

No, her bra/boobs kept distracting me.  I am not surprised though.  Thanks!

[cn0te]

I noticed Lily's ring as well and I have hopes for this couple, the experts took time and matched them. But, Tom must realize that if he's married it can't be all about HIM and "his things" aka the bus, although Lily seems opened to him keeping is around. Nick seriously creeps me tf out! Is it just me? Sonia seems like too nice of a person to be matched with such and awkward guy who seems to have no feelings or emotions. Also, Dr. Pepper needs to pick the experts next, I did not enjoy the replacements.

Edited October 31, 2016 by cn0te

[Jellybeans]

Nick does not creep me out but Tom does.  We are all different.

[amola]

Nick doesn't creep me out at all.  I think he can be sweet.  Neither does Tom but he does seem very judgie mcjudgeball BUT thinks he's laid back.  That's a trait that drives me nuts in others.  

Edited October 31, 2016 by amola
Should not type on my phone!

[Evil Queen]

2 hours ago, cn0te said:

I noticed Lily's ring as well and I have hopes for this couple, the experts took time and matched them. But, Tom must realize that if he's married it can't be all about HIM and "his things" aka the bus, although Lily seems opened to him keeping is around. Nick seriously creeps me tf out! Is it just me? Sonia seems like too nice of a person to be matched with such and awkward guy who seems to have no feelings or emotions. Also, Dr. Pepper needs to pick the experts next, I did not enjoy the replacements.

Pepper needs to go IMO. She is horrible and always has been. As well as someone that shouldn't be telling others at all to stick a marriage out when she didn't do the same. Nick doesn't creep me out but he is not at all what he is trying to claim. I do not think he should have been matched with Sonia...let alone been on the show. He has serious issues with drinking and how to deal with many issues when it comes to relationships and others. 

[Jellybeans]

48 minutes ago, amola said:

Nick doesn't creep me out at all.  I think he can be sweet.  Neither does Tom but he does seem very judgie mcjudgeball BUT thinks he's laid back.  That's a trait that drives me nuts in others.  

I should clarify... Tom creeps me out because he is judgemental.  For a free spirit he seems to have a lot of rules.

[Evil Queen]

1 hour ago, Jellybeans said:

I should clarify... Tom creeps me out because he is judgemental.  For a free spirit he seems to have a lot of rules.

I don't think he is as free a spirit as he tries to claim. With how he judges others for not thinking his way or doing things his way that was a sign to me he isn't much of one. I don't see him as creepy though but just an ass half the time or more for that kind of attitude. 

[Gem 10]

On October 26, 2016 at 11:31 PM, Passthepopcorn said:

Random thoughts...

I realized why I end up watching this show. Even though sometimes it is torture and I wonder why I'm watching.

1- Human relations and behavior are fascinating. Who would do this kind o thing? How do they navigate this and that? How so many of us watch the same situations and people and end up with such different opinions and perceptions.

2- Ultimately, I want to see these participants succeed, find a good partner.  I find my heart racing a little bit at wedding times and at decision times. As if I knew these people. I tend to cheer for them. Even when lots of this show is massively manipulated and you don't know what is real and what is not, I don't think people come to this show to get divorced. I wish they would let things develop more organically. It would be more interesting. But well, I play along.

3- The chance to discuss these things here. For that, thank you everybody!

Next time is Chicago. An hour from home. I'll probably be watching...

[Gem 10]

Just watched for the THIRD time believe it or not.   Nick and Sonia I won't even talk about because they are a sham.  He didn't like her, and the next week he did a 180.  Now he cares for her.  What bullshit.  The decision scene with Tom and Lily .. Was she going for the academy award with the sad face and hesitation?  I didn't like when he said his nieces and nephews were a lot of work.  Really?  I guess babies and toddlers would really cramp his style, the selfish creep.   LIly swam in the water with sharks to please him.   I wouldn't.  What if he asked her to bungee jump off a bridge?  She would probably do that too.  Everything he wants .. She gives him.    I doubt this will last.  I don't care how many clocks he gives her.

[gonecrackers]

My concern for Lily is she has said she gives a lot in relationships which is obvious, but Tom does seem like a taker. That will drain her. The best thing she can probably do is start setting reasonable limits & see what he does with that. She'll see where things may really be going that way.

[Adeejay]

For couples that were going to stay married, they appeared gloomy and downcast. They seemed more like hostages reading ransom notes than newlyweds. Something about this whole thing doesn't ring true. 

[Evil Queen]

13 hours ago, Adeejay said:

For couples that were going to stay married, they appeared gloomy and downcast. They seemed more like hostages reading ransom notes than newlyweds. Something about this whole thing doesn't ring true. 

I agree with you. The editing job on this didn't help either. It was so all over the place with what was tossed in and parts of conversations that were not finished. Then the parts of them saying something and it being more like a TH sort of thing or just over a scene with the person not saying anything but just looking. I guess at this point that is one thing the show does stay consistent with.....bad editing and bullying by the "experts". 

 

14 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Just watched for the THIRD time believe it or not.   Nick and Sonia I won't even talk about because they are a sham.  He didn't like her, and the next week he did a 180.  Now he cares for her.  What bullshit.  The decision scene with Tom and Lily .. Was she going for the academy award with the sad face and hesitation?  I didn't like when he said his nieces and nephews were a lot of work.  Really?  I guess babies and toddlers would really cramp his style, the selfish creep.   LIly swam in the water with sharks to please him.   I wouldn't.  What if he asked her to bungee jump off a bridge?  She would probably do that too.  Everything he wants .. She gives him.    I doubt this will last.  I don't care how many clocks he gives her.

Wow I barely got through the 1st and only time I watched it. LOL Agree on the Nick and Sonia. It was a joke in the end IMO and she lacks self respect for moving back that last night and saying she wants to keep going. Guy has to many issues and it will always be a walking on eggshells game with that guy and his drinking. 

I wish we could have seen what else was said by Tom on the kids besides they were a lot of work. Is it that way because maybe there is a lack of parenting on his siblings end so he sees that and they come off that way? Or was it something else, like their ages or whatever. I do think he is pretty selfish in many ways. I didn't like the whole bus vs Lily thing. Which I hated even more that overlay of her saying enough of the bus because it wasn't needed. I do think she needs to set some of those limits like gonecrackers was saying and if he can be less selfish and judgy that maybe they might have a chance. I am not sure though on long term or even 5 yrs but it will just depend on how they learn to compromise. Which he did mention that and putting the bus in storage and working on it as he could. So he seems willing at least and I can imagine her willing to go on trips in that thing probably helps. I will say that at least they reacted in a way at the end of finding out their decisions as one would expect and not like the other 2 did. 

When they all meet....omg its not cute the hubby/wifey shirts. I don't know if Tom and Lily were judging Nick and Sonia but more so wondering about why they aren't as affectionate or what....as Lily had said how their story had gone. I can see being curious about it. It came off more like you had one couple at the table with 2 friends sitting there...not 2 married couples. 

[izabella]

9 minutes ago, Evil Queen said:

I wish we could have seen what else was said by Tom on the kids besides they were a lot of work. Is it that way because maybe there is a lack of parenting on his siblings end so he sees that and they come off that way? Or was it something else, like their ages or whatever. I do think he is pretty selfish in many ways.

To be fair, raising kids IS a LOT of work under the best of circumstances.  Kids require constant attention and any bus-and-surfing-lifestyle dreams have to take a back seat.  Oh, and that back seat?  Will need an expensive car seat in it, as well as other expensive things over a lifetime.  None of this sounds like something our Tom would be ready to sign up for. 

It's far less selfish of Tom to be honest about not wanting to raise kids than to stay with Lily without telling her the truth.  It's also far less selfish of Tom not to have kids since he doesn't want to raise kids, than to have them and dump them on Lily while he surfs.

Edited November 1, 2016 by izabella

[Evil Queen]

6 hours ago, izabella said:

To be fair, raising kids IS a LOT of work under the best of circumstances.  Kids require constant attention and any bus-and-surfing-lifestyle dreams have to take a back seat.  Oh, and that back seat?  Will need an expensive car seat in it, as well as other expensive things over a lifetime.  None of this sounds like something our Tom would be ready to sign up for. 

It's far less selfish of Tom to be honest about not wanting to raise kids than to stay with Lily without telling her the truth.  It's also far less selfish of Tom not to have kids since he doesn't want to raise kids, than to have them and dump them on Lily while he surfs.

I have 3 kids and have been through it all. Sure they can be work but it also depends on the parents too. When I see kids that are not parented at all to me those kids end up coming off as WAY more work than any parent would want to deal with but once you look at the reason its another story but its why I said it could be a reason for the comment. Yet I think more was said than we got too from that whole conversation that would have not come off a certain way to some. I think he wants to skip past the whole baby/toddler phase is what it is and it just doesn't work that way. He seemed fine when they watched Lily's niece. He had fun with her. So you can see he is ok around kids and able to play and do whatever. He had talked about adopting. Which it seemed Lily was fine with...as long as she had one of their own first. So its not like he doesn't want kids at all or to raise them. I don't remember ever hearing him say he never wanted to do those things. Neither wanted them right now either. What I recall is him wanting kids sooner than she would have too in one of their talks. Yet if he didn't want kids at all there is no way they would have worked and that would have been one of the most screwed up things to do in matching them or anyone. I don't think things like the bus and surfing would have to take so much of a backseat either. Obvously he couldn't do it always but it doesn't mean no more at all. Maybe less of sure but even then depending on the child's age they can tag along as well and learn to surf. I don't think he would dump her with the kids though...if they do have any ever but more so spending the time together out at the beach, teaching their kid(s) to love the water and sand. The bus, if ever fixed up completely, would be great for weekend trips or longer for them. Not everyone gets those chances to travel even if it was in that manner. Honestly when it comes to expenses for kids, one does not need the most costly of all items out there or every item there is either.. I sure didn't with any of mine. That to me is a big waste of money when you spend more on the items than you should/or need and I never will understand that. Yet that is just how I am and I am not a big spender at all. I bought what was safe and brands I liked and trusted. Which was always on the more affordable side of things for us. 

[gonecrackers]

Tom not wanting kids is not an issue as long as it's a mutual decision for them. I do think she should know where he stands now but it's true people can change their minds. Older, adopted kids typically come with issues, so bypassing the infant/toddler stage doesn't mean no work - & can he say 'teenager'? lol

If it happens he better be in it for the long haul, no matter what, just like marriage.

Edited November 1, 2016 by gonecrackers

[LennieBriscoe]

Before this all ends, and we await yet another season of crazy couples, I want to say, echoing "Coach" in "Hoosiers":

I love you guys.

[Marsupial]

Everybody here has stated my own thoughts so clearly there is no need to elaborate, but I really want to see what happens at the reunion.

I am sad for Sonia that she decided to stick it out with Nick, there is zero love there and she really did make herself look desperate. Nick reminds me of the character of whom Zhivago said, "He has a rare gift for making people  unhappy--particularly women."

I have liked Tom and Lily from day one and continued to do so, and am glad they stayed together. I think they have a real chance.

Quote

 I did enjoy seeing Sonia and Nick and Lily and Tom meeting.  Finally!  MAFS really should do this with all the couples.

Agreed! Although it also really highlighted how jarringly different the two relationships are. I think Tom and Lily were a little stunned at how detached the other two seemed from each other. Not the lack of physical affection but the emotional distance. When Sonia made that comment about Nick wanting to be handed the perfect partner, it was very telling, like an SOS signal.

Quote

Before this all ends, and we await yet another season of crazy couples, I want to say, echoing "Coach" in "Hoosiers":

I love you guys.

Yes! A hundred times yes, watching these shows is like watching WWE, it would not be nearly as fun without the commentary!

[Stillhoping]

Yay...glad to see more Tom and Lilly fans!

I think much of the drama we see has been producer driven.When pushed by producers Tom may have said things that people found "judgy" but drunken Nick went into that unforgetable rant.

[LennieBriscoe]

Re-watching the episode: Any child of Tom and Lily will have the most amazing eyelashes!

Edited November 2, 2016 by LennieBriscoe