S06.E11: Surprise Surprise!

[kitkat343]

If you look to the righthand corner of this picture of Dr. Drew with Amber, you can see a copy machine.  Do you think there is some kind of subliminal message from MTV about how these people keep having the same problems over and over by having all their therapy take place at kinkos?  Cofcinci I need your profession opinion about why therapy keeps happening at kinkos!

[imjagain]

The potty thing didn't bother me.  Withmy two oldest children  we moved the potty chair around the house in the beginning .  Cleaned it constantly and no I didn't plop it next to the couch if we had company .  However,  as I was home all day alone with the little ones I'd make it as easy for them .  The beginning of potty training is constant  rushing to that little potty. Of course as the children got used to going in potty and begun to be aware that they had to go,  it was moved and stay in bathroom .  Luckily my 2 children learned pretty quickly so the potty chair wasn't a problem for long. 

My third child of course was a whole other story because of his developmental  delay .  

[FawnLeibowitz]

Quote

I don't know if this Thermos-drinking is a trend, but I've seen several of my friends' facebook posts with photos from vacations, all of them sporting one of those chrome Thermos containers.  And I know my friends enough to know that it ain't coffee they're drinking.

Another Yeti lover here - that's the only thing I use to drink anything, because it keeps drinks so cold and doesn't leak. So I carry that around all day, take it to work, etc. and it's usually just filled with water. I agree Maci loves her beer, but she may just feel the same way I do about the Yeti and use it exclusively.
 

[GreatKazu]

Quote

Also, not okay with Amber's victim shaming. I'm sure all those women were manipulated and smitten with him, while being taken advantage of, just like Amber is now. It's only a matter of time. Amber has had more red flags than any woman I know, and she doesn't care. I'm looking forward to when this all crumbles. 

Amber is starting to sound just like Matt. He has been shaming those women from day one when all of this information about him came out.

I am beginning to wonder if Matt's arm goes up her ass and makes her speak, just like a ventriloquist and their dummy. That may explain why he is always sitting next to her on the couch.

[bethster2000]

1 hour ago, FawnLeibowitz said:

Another Yeti lover here

Yeah, it's kind of amazing.  I drink water all day, every day, and I want to know where the Yeti has been all of my life.  Highly recommended.

On topic: Tyler sucks.

[lezlers]

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 11:37 AM, poopchute said:

I don't know that the 40 year olds I know are amazing, they just look normal.  But 40.  I'm 35 and all of these girls look older than I do.  And rougher.  And I don't have the money for expensive clothes, makeup, hair, personal training like they all do.  Not saying they use those things but they have the money to look good if they wanted to.  Instead they are hideous.  What will they look like when they are actually 40?

Really?  I'm 38 and definitely look older than all these girls.  Some of them look pretty rough, but I don't think any of them look like they're in their 40s.  Shoot, if you think these girls look like they're in their forties then the average 40 year old probably looks like a senior citizen.  ;)

[Emmierose]

Debra and Farrah face timing at the end of this episode is disturbing.  Debra is disturbing.  Farrah is disturbing.  They seriously, seriously, seriously live in their own heads.  The Debra of the 16 and Pregnant episode has been replaced by Farrah's Stepford mother.  It's creepy as shit.  Debra just smiles and looks crazy and agrees with Farrah and speaks in cliches.   And the fired employee's comment of, "And the 25 year old who owns a yogurt shop..." clearly got under Farrah's skin.  Because Farrah may have food service experience but doesn't have the people skills to be a business owner or someone's boss.  She has the money and the ambition (I'll give her that) but not the skill and being a condescending bitch doesn't equal skill. 

I am thinking that at this point the producers and editors are trying to make it clear how trashy Catelynn really is at this point.  That shot of her hopping out of the mini van while arriving at Butch's "party" with the ciggie hanging out of her face was classic.  Screaming her head off at her kid, "NOVALEE!!! NOVALEE!!!" while Tyler was talking was just obnoxious.  It appears that Cate has settled into her trashy role as a loud, aggressive dimwit quite well which is unfortunate, she definitely seemed sharper, brighter, and even poised in her 16 and Pregnant episode and the earliest season of Teen Mom.  Now she just comes across as loud, kinda dumb, and grabby.  

[SPLAIN]

Does anyone know for sure if there is a new episode tonight? My guide doesn't show one, however, this article  mentions a new episode airs tonight:

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/catelynn-lowell-cries-after-being-denied-visit-with-daughter-w447474

[Marisagf]

Did anyone post this article?  It's a behind-the-scenes piece with the show producers.

http://www.mtv.com/news/2936956/teen-mom-producer-roundtable-inside-story/

[poopchute]

8 minutes ago, Marisagf said:

Did anyone post this article?  It's a behind-the-scenes piece with the show producers.

http://www.mtv.com/news/2936956/teen-mom-producer-roundtable-inside-story/

Nothing has changed!!

Quote

And the only thing she had was a blue Gatorade and a can of mandarin oranges soaked in sugar.

[Spencer Hastings]

A few years ago my friend met this much older guy at work.  Right off the bat, I knew something was off.  It wasn't his age or the serial killer glasses, but more his incessant need to say the perfect thing all the time.  He just gave me the creeps. After they've been together for a few months and have moved in together, here comes Woman #1 with a kid, trying to warn my friend about this guy.  He dismisses her as a lunatic, the kid isn't his, she won't let him see the kid, blah, blah, blah.  Fast forward a month or two later and here comes Woman #2.  She has TWO kids with him and it's the same song and dance.  Poor him, she won't let him see the kids.  My friend is shaming these women left and right, saying they're psycho and terrible mothers for keeping this wonderful man from his kids. At this point I'm ripping my hair out because I can see what's coming.  Five years later, she's a single mom, dude hasn't been seen in as many years, and she wishes she'd listened to these women.  This is Amber's future.  Matt might be this same guy, honestly.

[Chris Knight]

6 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

Does anyone know for sure if there is a new episode tonight? My guide doesn't show one, however, this article  mentions a new episode airs tonight:

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/catelynn-lowell-cries-after-being-denied-visit-with-daughter-w447474

I don't think there was a new episode tonight.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

7 hours ago, Marisagf said:

Did anyone post this article?  It's a behind-the-scenes piece with the show producers.

http://www.mtv.com/news/2936956/teen-mom-producer-roundtable-inside-story/

This quote from one of the producers about Ryan stuck out at me:

"MALONE: He’s going to kill me for saying this, but Ryan is probably the most stressful part, when I was producing. I love the kid madly; I consider him a close, personal friend. He’s like my little brother. But he can be stressful because he doesn’t care and doesn’t show up. Tracking him down can take days. He has no bad intentions -- he’s in his own world."

interesting.....

[WhosThatGirl]

2 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

This quote from one of the producers about Ryan stuck out at me:

"MALONE: He’s going to kill me for saying this, but Ryan is probably the most stressful part, when I was producing. I love the kid madly; I consider him a close, personal friend. He’s like my little brother. But he can be stressful because he doesn’t care and doesn’t show up. Tracking him down can take days. He has no bad intentions -- he’s in his own world."

interesting.....

That article is interesting. The producers definitely echo my sentiments about the cast. That Maci and Ryan despite the situation were the best out of the four; they had the most supportive families. And to this day, they still do.

 And also that Farrah and Debra were handling the pregnancy news in such different ways. I think Debra really thought Farrah would give up the baby for adoption. 

I personally wish they would stop with the breaking the fourth wall now. It was interesting in the first season of OG but now like I have said and many others have said, it at times is getting a little uncomfortable. Watching the cast members (expection being Maci and all the people in her parts of the show) have no boundaries when it comes to production is really uncomfortable to me. Yes these producers may feel for these people but the line feels awkward at times and blurred and yeah, I wish it would be done.

[DangerousMinds]

7 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

This quote from one of the producers about Ryan stuck out at me:

"MALONE: He’s going to kill me for saying this, but Ryan is probably the most stressful part, when I was producing. I love the kid madly; I consider him a close, personal friend. He’s like my little brother. But he can be stressful because he doesn’t care and doesn’t show up. Tracking him down can take days. He has no bad intentions -- he’s in his own world."

interesting.....

If only the rest of us could get away with this behavior and still be paid by our employers . . . 

[CofCinci]

With the producer's word choice of "kid", "little brother", "in his own world" -- I'm starting believe he has some intellectual or cognitive issues.

[lezlers]

16 hours ago, Spencer Hastings said:

A few years ago my friend met this much older guy at work.  Right off the bat, I knew something was off.  It wasn't his age or the serial killer glasses, but more his incessant need to say the perfect thing all the time.  He just gave me the creeps. After they've been together for a few months and have moved in together, here comes Woman #1 with a kid, trying to warn my friend about this guy.  He dismisses her as a lunatic, the kid isn't his, she won't let him see the kid, blah, blah, blah.  Fast forward a month or two later and here comes Woman #2.  She has TWO kids with him and it's the same song and dance.  Poor him, she won't let him see the kids.  My friend is shaming these women left and right, saying they're psycho and terrible mothers for keeping this wonderful man from his kids. At this point I'm ripping my hair out because I can see what's coming.  Five years later, she's a single mom, dude hasn't been seen in as many years, and she wishes she'd listened to these women.  This is Amber's future.  Matt might be this same guy, honestly.

I work regularly in what I call "dead beat dad court" (although it should be deadbeatparent court since we have an alarming number of women in there too.)  Anywhoo, there is no shortage of these women in there.  Smug, usually pregnant, standing next to their man enthusiastically nodding while he slams the mother of his children (that he's not paying any money or else they wouldn't be there.)  It takes every last ounce of self restraint not to pull them aside and say "listen sweetheart, be smug all you want now.  I guaranfuckingtee you will be here one year from now."  It makes me crazy. They're so damn blind.

Edited November 1, 2016 by lezlers

[AmyFarrahFowler]

Am I the only one who is sick of MTV taking credit for the decline in teen pregnancy? In what world are they convincing these kids when none of the participating players live a typical situation? These kids never have to worry about putting off a light bill because the baby needs diapers or finding a good reliable daycare that doesn't charge up the wazoo and take everything you make. MTV is as delusional as these girls are.

[leighroda]

19 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

That article is interesting. The producers definitely echo my sentiments about the cast. That Maci and Ryan despite the situation were the best out of the four; they had the most supportive families. And to this day, they still do.

 And also that Farrah and Debra were handling the pregnancy news in such different ways. I think Debra really thought Farrah would give up the baby for adoption. 

I personally wish they would stop with the breaking the fourth wall now. It was interesting in the first season of OG but now like I have said and many others have said, it at times is getting a little uncomfortable. Watching the cast members (expection being Maci and all the people in her parts of the show) have no boundaries when it comes to production is really uncomfortable to me. Yes these producers may feel for these people but the line feels awkward at times and blurred and yeah, I wish it would be done.

I agree with the 4th wall, I don't really mind them breaking it sometimes, but I've noticed especially with Matt and Amber, Matt just talks to the producer the whole time.  That being said I do prefer the producer being thrown in to ask about whatever topic they want them to talk about, instead of having to have a random "friend" do it.

[CofCinci]

9 hours ago, AmyFarrahFowler said:

Am I the only one who is sick of MTV taking credit for the decline in teen pregnancy? In what world are they convincing these kids when none of the participating players live a typical situation? These kids never have to worry about putting off a light bill because the baby needs diapers or finding a good reliable daycare that doesn't charge up the wazoo and take everything you make. MTV is as delusional as these girls are.

Seriously delusional.  They're trying to justify this trash as the greater good.  The teen birth rate has steadily declined before these Teen Moms were even born.  http://www.hhs.gov/ash/oah/adolescent-health-topics/reproductive-health/teen-pregnancy/trends.html

The claim comes from this one paper http://www.nber.org/papers/w19795

Edited November 2, 2016 by CofCinci

[Uncle JUICE]

9 hours ago, AmyFarrahFowler said:

Am I the only one who is sick of MTV taking credit for the decline in teen pregnancy? In what world are they convincing these kids when none of the participating players live a typical situation? These kids never have to worry about putting off a light bill because the baby needs diapers or finding a good reliable daycare that doesn't charge up the wazoo and take everything you make. MTV is as delusional as these girls are.

Hell no, you're not ! This assertion is completely baseless and even more, it can in no way be verified. What, are there people walking around asking people "why didn't you get pregnant as a teen" and getting the answer "teen mom steered me straight!" No. It's bunk.

[pakalolo]

On 10/29/2016 at 1:42 PM, jacksgirl said:

Since Maci and Taylor are so boring, I spend their scenes counting if there is a TTM product placement in each one. Yep, multiple is a few scenes. Between the fug shirts and the cups, every scene. I am surprised that they don't put a logo on the kids toys.

I'm waiting for Maci to get one of those "gator" pockets tattooed on to her chest.

[GreatKazu]

I'd want to see Maci get a pocket stitched to her bare chest.

[GreatKazu]

5 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Hell no, you're not ! This assertion is completely baseless and even more, it can in no way be verified. What, are there people walking around asking people "why didn't you get pregnant as a teen" and getting the answer "teen mom steered me straight!" No. It's bunk.

Thank you. MTV is not responsible for this whatsoever.

Over the years, access to birth control has been one factor. The use of condoms is also another factor. In our state, birth control laws have been passed that now allow girls to get birth control over the counter without going to a doctor first. I know some parents who have taken their daughters to have hormonal birth control implanted in their arms. There are various reasons for the low birth rate by teen mothers.

[Marisagf]

8 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

I'd want to see Maci get a pocket stitched to her bare chest.

I said that would probably happen!

[teapot]

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2016 at 4:57 PM, Marisagf said:

Did anyone post this article?  It's a behind-the-scenes piece with the show producers.

http://www.mtv.com/news/2936956/teen-mom-producer-roundtable-inside-story/

"It could be as simple as Catelynn wanting to go shopping for an outfit for Nova."  I'm sorry, are we watching the same show??????????????

[WhosThatGirl]

24 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

Thank you. MTV is not responsible for this whatsoever.

Over the years, access to birth control has been one factor. The use of condoms is also another factor. In our state, birth control laws have been passed that now allow girls to get birth control over the counter without going to a doctor first. I know some parents who have taken their daughters to have hormonal birth control implanted in their arms. There are various reasons for the low birth rate by teen mothers.

Yeah this show saying they helped make pregnancy decline.. psh. There was one show that actually did show what it was like to take care of kids, and it came out I believe right before 16 and pregnant, it was called the baby borrowers and these 18 year olds had to watch babies for like four daya. (The parents of the babies were nearby in case something actually did happen). Also Dr.panda hosted the reunion of this show too, but I enjoyed the show.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Dear MTV,

Correlation does not equal causation.  You can have a seat with this whole "our show has helped teen pregnancy rates decline" nonsense.

KTHANKBYE,

MyPeopleAreNordic

[heatherchandler]

On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 0:01 PM, jumper sage said:

I just hope she has stopped hitting as a punishment.  I can't forget the bowling party with Bently and her friends and him being so young would not talk with her friends.  She took him into the bathroom and hit him.  I think her boyfriend/husband has been good for her.  The constant beer drinking is worrisome.

Can I just say I am on team Butch!  He has made the most progress of all of these people.  Driving on a suspended license is wrong but for him:  No drugs?  Not drunk?  Progress.

I don't remember this bowling party.  She took him to the bathroom and hit him??  Wow.

I am also hopeful for Butch.  It is so hard to change, harder than most people think.  Especially so late in life. 

 

On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 2:33 PM, qtpye said:

Sadly, Amber probably has daddy issues, so Matt is going to stick around for a long time (until the money runs out).  Then he is going to write a tell all book airing all of Amber's dirty laundry as a last resort money grab.

And I am going to read it!

 

On ‎10‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 5:05 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

 

I hope Kiana filed for unemployment and Farrah represented herself at the hearing.  I can see her going on and on about how terrible Kiana was from day one, never did anything right, etc.  Kiana says, "I tried, but I got almost no training, and nothing I did was ever good enough for her."  Farrah:  "I provided perfect training but you never caught on."

Judgment for Kiana.  Chargeback for Froco.

 

I hope she does file!  Just curious, how much of Kiana's unemployment would Froco be responsible for?  Is this something Farrah would be paying into, like insurance, just in case?  Or is it like Kiana is still on the payroll for a short time after being fired?

 

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 1:37 PM, poopchute said:

I don't know that the 40 year olds I know are amazing, they just look normal.  But 40.  I'm 35 and all of these girls look older than I do.  And rougher.  And I don't have the money for expensive clothes, makeup, hair, personal training like they all do.  Not saying they use those things but they have the money to look good if they wanted to.  Instead they are hideous.  What will they look like when they are actually 40?

 

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2016 at 0:07 PM, lezlers said:

Really?  I'm 38 and definitely look older than all these girls.  Some of them look pretty rough, but I don't think any of them look like they're in their 40s.  Shoot, if you think these girls look like they're in their forties then the average 40 year old probably looks like a senior citizen.  ;)

I am 40 and I honestly think Amber looks like my contemporary.  Maybe older.  Catelyn has a young face, but she carries herself like a 40 year old.

Macy looks young, but Kail from TM2 looks to be around 38 or 40 to my eyes. 

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2016 at 3:23 PM, SPLAIN said:

Does anyone know for sure if there is a new episode tonight? My guide doesn't show one, however, this article  mentions a new episode airs tonight:

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/catelynn-lowell-cries-after-being-denied-visit-with-daughter-w447474

I am so confused, this article mentions that this scene was from Monday's (10/31) episode.  Maybe it will be on next Monday?

This is the saddest part from the article:

A sympathetic Dawn then pulls out a set of documents, which show that Lowell and Baltierra had both signed away their rights to “ongoing face-to-face” visits. What the agreement is, instead, is that Lowell and Baltierra, as birth parents, can request to see Carly, but ultimately it's up to Carly’s adoptive parents to say yes or no.

Lowell tears up at this realization. “It’s just f‑‑king frustrating because I was 16 years old when I made this f‑‑king decision,” she finally says.

You know what - I honestly feel for Cate.  She is right, she made this agreement when she was 16.  She didn't think she would have to beg to get to see Carly.  I am sure she was led to believe that if she gave up the baby, she would be able to see her whenever she wanted.  I am absolutely sure she was under that impression.  I don't understand how the signature of a 16 year old is legal.  From what I understand, your signature is not legal until you are 18.  Lawyers, what kind of legal recourse does she have?

[StatisticalOutlier]

32 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

I hope she does file!  Just curious, how much of Kiana's unemployment would Froco be responsible for?  Is this something Farrah would be paying into, like insurance, just in case?  Or is it like Kiana is still on the payroll for a short time after being fired?

Our side of the agency never got into the numbers, but Froco pays unemployment insurance taxes, and if there's a chargeback, the taxes go up. 

[DangerousMinds]

She has no fucking legal recourse. She is not Carly's parent, FFS!

[ginger90]

How long could she have been employed by Farrah ? Isn't there a minimum before one can file for unemployment?

[mamadrama]

36 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

She has no fucking legal recourse. She is not Carly's parent, FFS!

Right; I was under the under the impression that those docs were basically just showing goodwill. Her suing for more visitation would be as crazy as me trying to get visitation rights of the kid next door. On the other hand, @heatherchandler might have been referring to Bethany, In that case, Cate might be able to sue them for false representation or something. Would not help her with B & T but might make her feel good. Of course, the backlash on B&T would be how they cosigned the docs, knowing that poor, naieve teenagers probably did not understand. T and C minions would have a field day.

[heatherchandler]

1 hour ago, mamadrama said:

Right; I was under the under the impression that those docs were basically just showing goodwill. Her suing for more visitation would be as crazy as me trying to get visitation rights of the kid next door. On the other hand, @heatherchandler might have been referring to Bethany, In that case, Cate might be able to sue them for false representation or something. Would not help her with B & T but might make her feel good. Of course, the backlash on B&T would be how they cosigned the docs, knowing that poor, naieve teenagers probably did not understand. T and C minions would have a field day.

 

2 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

She has no fucking legal recourse. She is not Carly's parent, FFS!

 

Yes, I am wondering how Bethany gets away with making false promises to birth parents, especially at such a young age.  They are showing Cate documents to prove that she has no rights to see Carly, yet at the time of the adoption, she must have believed that she would be able to see her, and keep in touch.  I am also wondering how her 16 year old signature is legal.  A 16 year old is not able to make decisions like that.  She trusted that she would still be able to see Carly as she was growing up.

I personally think open adoption is a terrible idea, sometimes there are promises made and not in the best faith; but I am sure that it is the only way to get some young mothers to give up their babies.  I have a friend who adopted a little girl and she is dealing with a similar situation but from the other end.  We were discussing the fact that when the birth mother is pregnant, she holds all the cards.  The adoptive parents will agree to anything, they want the baby.  THEN, once the baby is officially adopted, the adoptive parents are holding all of the cards.  They don't have to follow through with anything, especially if the documents say that it is at their discretion.  A 16 year old (uneducated) girl may not even understand what "discretion" means. 

I am aware that the baby is no longer Catelyn's, and it is not like she is trying to get Carly back.  BUT - who was looking out for Cate when she was about to give up her baby?  Certainly not her mother.  And not Dawn!  She didn't have anyone to explain the situation to her.  Dawn has to show her something she signed - she obviously didn't realize what she was signing back then.  My question is - what is her legal recourse to that?  How is her 16 year old signature legal?

Edited November 2, 2016 by heatherchandler

[Snarky McSnarky]

Nevermind.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Snarky McSnarky

[Trace]

I am against this open adoption thing.  Both parties must move on, otherwise it's this open festering wound.  At some point, the adoptive parents will cut off communication which will hurt the biological parents way more than the child.  Being a parent means MUCH more than giving birth.  It involves being there when the child is sick or scared - walking the floors with them when they are sick, or reassuring them when they are scared that nothing will hurt them on your watch. Tyler and Cate need to move on.  They have their own child now and they need to let Carly's parents PARENT her. 

[GreatKazu]

Quote

My question is - what is her legal recourse to that?  How is her 16 year old signature legal?

Signing adoption documents differs from minors signing contracts or other sorts of documents such as signing a car loan. I am only generally speaking here, as we all know laws vary from state to state. In most states, minors can consent to give their baby away for adoption. The age for consent for minors in many states is fourteen, while some states allow consent to be given by parents as young as twelve or ten. Whatever the laws for adoption are in the state where this took place, that is what matters.

I have mentioned before, when these places, like Bethany, deal with minors, they should provide an attorney to the minor, at no cost, so they are at least aware of what it is they are signing and help them to understand what is happening and to let them know what their rights are in their state.

Until I see proof, I will never be convinced Cate was NEVER told that B&T can cut her visitations at any time in the future. Cate just didn't realize what a douchebag boyfriend she had at the time and didn't foresee the future where he would be upset at any boundaries being set up by B&T. Cate didn't do herself any favors either by having this attitude that she did B&T a favor and now they owe her for life.

Edited November 2, 2016 by GreatKazu

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, heatherchandler said:

 

 

Yes, I am wondering how Bethany gets away with making false promises to birth parents, especially at such a young age.  They are showing Cate documents to prove that she has no rights to see Carly, yet at the time of the adoption, she must have believed that she would be able to see her, and keep in touch.  I am also wondering how her 16 year old signature is legal.  A 16 year old is not able to make decisions like that.  She trusted that she would still be able to see Carly as she was growing up.

I personally think open adoption is a terrible idea, sometimes there are promises made and not in the best faith; but I am sure that it is the only way to get some young mothers to give up their babies.  I have a friend who adopted a little girl and she is dealing with a similar situation but from the other end.  We were discussing the fact that when the birth mother is pregnant, she holds all the cards.  The adoptive parents will agree to anything, they want the baby.  THEN, once the baby is officially adopted, the adoptive parents are holding all of the cards.  They don't have to follow through with anything, especially if the documents say that it is at their discretion.  A 16 year old (uneducated) girl may not even understand what "discretion" means. 

I am aware that the baby is no longer Catelyn's, and it is not like she is trying to get Carly back.  BUT - who was looking out for Cate when she was about to give up her baby?  Certainly not her mother.  And not Dawn!  She didn't have anyone to explain the situation to her.  Dawn has to show her something she signed - she obviously didn't realize what she was signing back then.  My question is - what is her legal recourse to that?  How is her 16 year old signature legal?

16 year olds are able to get pregnant, thus able to make their own decisions about those pregnancies. They don't need any adult's consent to make decisions about their own reproductive health, be it keeping the baby, terminating the pregnancy (in some states circumventing parental consent requires getting a judicial bypass, but it can and is done all the time), or choosing to give that child up for adoption.

[heatherchandler]

18 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

16 year olds are able to get pregnant, thus able to make their own decisions about those pregnancies. They don't need any adult's consent to make decisions about their own reproductive health, be it keeping the baby, terminating the pregnancy (in some states circumventing parental consent requires getting a judicial bypass, but it can and is done all the time), or choosing to give that child up for adoption.

A 12 or 13 year old can get pregnant.  Can they make legal, binding decisions that will impact the rest of their lives?  Should they?

A 16 year old's signature is not legal.  There are ways around it for various procedures or for adoption, yes.  In this case, Catelyn has expressed a lack of understanding pertaining to the document Dawn has presented to her.  She signed it, but clearly (judging by the video) did not know what she was signing.  Was she misled? Lied to?  Was everything spelled out but Catelynn lacked the ability to grasp it?  I don't know, but I want to know how a 16 year old's signature is deemed "legal" and binding.

Edited November 2, 2016 by heatherchandler

[heatherchandler]

27 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

 

I have mentioned before, when these places, like Bethany, deal with minors, they should provide an attorney to the minor, at no cost, so they are at least aware of what it is they are signing and help them to understand what is happening and to let them know what their rights are in their state.

Until I see proof, I will never be convinced Cate was NEVER told that B&T can cut her visitations at any time in the future. Cate just didn't realize what a douchebag boyfriend she had at the time and didn't foresee the future where he would be upset at any boundaries being set up by B&T. Cate didn't do herself any favors either by having this attitude that she did B&T a favor and now they owe her for life.

YES to your whole post.  There should have been an advocate to Catelynn.  Someone looking out for her, explaining things to her truthfully.

I agree, I don't believe she had all the facts, or understood them when she signed away ever being able to see Carly.  It's clear in her reaction to seeing that she did!

I didn't know if the documents presented by Dawn were the adoption papers or some other agreement spelling out the details of the open adoption. 

[jumper sage]

5 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I don't remember this bowling party.  She took him to the bathroom and hit him??  Wow.

Her friends were trying to talk to him, everyone was drinking.  He was little.  She basically said something like he embarrassed her in front of her friends and took him into the women's stall and it sounded like she pulled down his pants and was spanking him hard.  The whole thing was horrible.  It was all about her and he was just an ornament that would not conform to an adult situation.

[Trace]

I was 16 years old in the 70's. Way before the World Wide Web or any of the vast information available to teens today.  I knew what having unprotected sex meant.  I didn't do it nor did many of my peers. (Sure we had sex but there was this thing called the PILL). I remember only one of my classmates getting pregnant in high school.  What the hell is wrong with kids these days?  There is NO excuse for this ignorance!

[CofCinci]

If I remember correctly, April wouldn't sign the papers -- so that meant they couldn't do the adoption in the actual hospital.  They had to go outside on the sidewalk to sign/transfer Carly.

[mamadrama]

3 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

 

 

I personally think open adoption is a terrible idea, sometimes there are promises made and not in the best faith; but I am sure that it is the only way to get some young mothers to give up their babies.  I have a friend who adopted a little girl and she is dealing with a similar situation but from the other end.  We were discussing the fact that when the birth mother is pregnant, she holds all the cards.  The adoptive parents will agree to anything, they want the baby.  THEN, once the baby is officially adopted, the adoptive parents are holding all of the cards.  They don't have to follow through with anything, especially if the documents say that it is at their discretion.  A 16 year old (uneducated) girl may not even understand what "discretion" means. 

 

I am going to address this, along with @GreatKazu's comment below.

2 hours ago, Trace said:

I am against this open adoption thing.  Both parties must move on, otherwise it's this open festering wound.  At some point, the adoptive parents will cut off communication which will hurt the biological parents way more than the child. 

This show has changed my views on a lot of things...Seeing the occasional photo as the child is growing up-okay. Keeping up with milestones via pictures or whatever-okay. Giving the child pertinent medical and ancestral information about their birth parents when they need it-okay. Giving the child contact information for their birth parents when they turn 18-okay. Having the birth parents be active parts of the child's life as they grow up? NOT okay. To me, when it's the kind of open adoption C&T seem to want, it's like the birth parents get their cake and eat it too. They still get to be an active part of their child's life without having to do any of the "hard" part; they still get to act like they are parents without actually being parents. And that is not okay.

1 hour ago, GreatKazu said:

Signing adoption documents differs from minors signing contracts or other sorts of documents such as signing a car loan. I am only generally speaking here, as we all know laws vary from state to state. In most states, minors can consent to give their baby away for adoption. The age for consent for minors in many states is fourteen, while some states allow consent to be given by parents as young as twelve or ten. Whatever the laws for adoption are in the state where this took place, that is what matters.

I have mentioned before, when these places, like Bethany, deal with minors, they should provide an attorney to the minor, at no cost, so they are at least aware of what it is they are signing and help them to understand what is happening and to let them know what their rights are in their state.

Until I see proof, I will never be convinced Cate was NEVER told that B&T can cut her visitations at any time in the future. Cate just didn't realize what a douchebag boyfriend she had at the time and didn't foresee the future where he would be upset at any boundaries being set up by B&T. Cate didn't do herself any favors either by having this attitude that she did B&T a favor and now they owe her for life.

You know what I think? I think they really might HAVE explained everything. I think C&T probably understood what they were doing at the time. (As much as they COULD understand.) However, I think they thought that they would move on with their lives, go to college or whatever, and it wouldn't matter. But then the TV show continued, Carly was their storyline and thus their moneymaker, and it blew up to become something crazy. This unhealthy push to talk about Carly, see Carly, make Carly a point of their story, etc. has put them in a place where it probably feels impossible for them to get out of. Maybe Cate and Tyler didn't originally feel the way they do now but, over time. producers, fans, and the media has pushed Carly on them so much that they now feel obligated to include her in their lives in an extremely unhealthy way. And that push to include her has now turned internal. (Does that make sense? Perhaps the original push was external but now they can't tell the difference between their "story arc" and what they're truly feeling.) Either way, it's time to cut both cords-with Carly AND B&T.

[mamadrama]

6 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I don't remember this bowling party.  She took him to the bathroom and hit him??  Wow.

 

Yes, she took him into the bathroom and spanked him. It was a big deal at the time. I am not actually against spanking. However, in this situation it actually made me sick to my stomach. And that takes a lot. I feel that I am a lot more loosey goosey than some on here (I see nothing wrong with Nova running around mostly naked, I am totally cool with the occasional mac & cheese with a side of mac & cheese, etc.) But in this situation Maci had zero excuses. It just made me sad.

 

http://www.wetpaint.com/maci-bookout-spanking-bentley-firm-believer-1393119/

[poopchute]

1 hour ago, heatherchandler said:

A 12 or 13 year old can get pregnant.  Can they make legal, binding decisions that will impact the rest of their lives?  Should they?

A 16 year old's signature is not legal.  There are ways around it for various procedures or for adoption, yes.  In this case, Catelyn has expressed a lack of understanding pertaining to the document Dawn has presented to her.  She signed it, but clearly (judging by the video) did not know what she was signing.  Was she misled? Lied to?  Was everything spelled out but Catelynn lacked the ability to grasp it?  I don't know, but I want to know how a 16 year old's signature is deemed "legal" and binding.

What did she not understand about it?  Seems pretty straightforward with no confusing language or big legal words that regular people don't understand.  I could see not understanding certain legal terminology but this doesn't seem to have that at all.  

[WhosThatGirl]

The Maci spanking scene was not an episode of TM. It was her Being Maci special. And I firmly believe Macis Being special was essentially meant to be a series. Her special aired years before all the other Being Specials came out and hers has no producer 4th wall action. 

[ginger90]

"You know what I think? I think they really might HAVE explained everything. I think C&T probably understood what they were doing at the time. (As much as they COULD understand.) However, I think they thought that they would move on with their lives, go to college or whatever, and it wouldn't matter. But then the TV show continued, Carly was their storyline and thus their moneymaker, and it blew up to become something crazy. This unhealthy push to talk about Carly, see Carly, make Carly a point of their story, etc. has put them in a place where it probably feels impossible for them to get out of. Maybe Cate and Tyler didn't originally feel the way they do now but, over time. producers, fans, and the media has pushed Carly on them so much that they now feel obligated to include her in their lives in an extremely unhealthy way. And that push to include her has now turned internal. (Does that make sense? Perhaps the original push was external but now they can't tell the difference between their "story arc" and what they're truly feeling.) Either way, it's time to cut both cords-with Carly AND B&T."

Indeed to this. There is so much going on that is very unhealthy to all involved.

Edited November 3, 2016 by ginger90

[CofCinci]

Catelynn and Tyler were shown in the 16&P episode sharing that they thought Carly could end up spending summers with them and would come to be with them when she turned 18.  They were dumb, poor kids who were exploited.

[kitkat343]

Quote

You know what - I honestly feel for Cate.  She is right, she made this agreement when she was 16.  She didn't think she would have to beg to get to see Carly.  I am sure she was led to believe that if she gave up the baby, she would be able to see her whenever she wanted.  I am absolutely sure she was under that impression.  I don't understand how the signature of a 16 year old is legal.  From what I understand, your signature is not legal until you are 18.  Lawyers, what kind of legal recourse does she have?

Her age doesn't matter since legally you cannot force an adoptive parent to maintain contact with the birth parents. 

Quote

 However, I think they thought that they would move on with their lives, go to college or whatever, and it wouldn't matter. But then the TV show continued, Carly was their storyline and thus their moneymaker, and it blew up to become something crazy. This unhealthy push to talk about Carly, see Carly, make Carly a point of their story, etc. has put them in a place where it probably feels impossible for them to get out of. Maybe Cate and Tyler didn't originally feel the way they do now but, over time. producers, fans, and the media has pushed Carly on them so much that they now feel obligated to include her in their lives in an extremely unhealthy way.

 

The fans/show are certainly a factor in their obsession.  The other big factor is that they haven't actually done anything with their lives.  If they had any interest in raising Nova, had jobs, volunteer work or hobbies, they would be able to move on with their lives.  But they sit around the house all day and their lives revolve around eating junk food and social media (and I assume watching tv while they aren't being filmed).  People living like that need an excuse for why their life is a mess since they don't want to do the work required to fix it. 

Edited November 3, 2016 by kitkat343