S01.E02: The Assassination Of Abraham Lincoln

[Chaos Theory]

3 hours ago, Canada said:

I like the idea of this show, but the reality is that it's not really working.  The premise is that this team was put together to capture Flynn.  However, if they were successful, there's no TV show anymore.  So the continuation of the series hangs on them failing each week to catch Flynn.  They were also told not to change history, yet each week they also fail miserably with that task.  You would think, after their first episode adventures that Lucy of all people would realise the importance of not screwing with history (i.e. the disappearance of her sister) and yet she still attempted to change history in the Lincoln storyline.  These people don't seem very smart, considering they're tasked with saving the world as they know it.

Not necessarily and it's easier said then done. There are several mysteries already touched upon and catching Flynn could simply end one and start another.  Is Flynn right and someone else is messing with time?  Who is this other group that keeps getting mentioned (but whose name I keep forgetting).  As for messing with time themselves it's easier to say you wouldn't do it when have no option to actually do it but find yourself sitting next to Lincoln on assination day and you might just do something...because it's Lincoln god damn it.  Or you happen to be on a train with Hitler a couple years befor WW2 you might just make sure he doesn't get off even though you know the consequences might be worse.  No one knows for sure what they would do that is what makes the conversation so interesting.

[snarktini]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

Who is this other group that keeps getting mentioned (but whose name I keep forgetting)

I think it's Rittenhouse

[KaveDweller]

5 hours ago, BooBear said:

Coming to the ABC's TGIT next year, a Shonda Rimes production "Network Spy" 

I would watch the hell out of that show.

[shapeshifter]

18 hours ago, Canada said:

I like the idea of this show, but the reality is that it's not really working.  The premise is that this team was put together to capture Flynn.  However, if they were successful, there's no TV show anymore.  So the continuation of the series hangs on them failing each week to catch Flynn.  They were also told not to change history, yet each week they also fail miserably with that task.  You would think, after their first episode adventures that Lucy of all people would realise the importance of not screwing with history (i.e. the disappearance of her sister) and yet she still attempted to change history in the Lincoln storyline.  These people don't seem very smart, considering they're tasked with saving the world as they know it.

Maybe the time changes will change Flynn's perspective of whatever evil mission he is on, and he'll become a mole in the evil doers organization (Rittenhouse?). That could fill up a season or three.

[withanaich]

I think it's hilarious that people can't remember "Rittenhouse." Maybe it is in fact a very odd name and it just stuck in my mind because I'm from Philly. (I even wondered if the writers are also from this area and that's how they came up with it.)

Anyway, I think initially we were supposed to think that Rittenhouse is evil (which is why everyone's lying about it to Lucy) but then again, when the show started we were supposed to think Flynn was completely evil and now that's up in the air. I think time (ha) will tell, and maybe once we find out what's what, time travel will make things shift once again. The good guys will turn out to be shady and the bad guys will turn out to have noble reasons for the seemingly bad things they're doing. I think there are a lot of directions this show could go in, even if the current mysteries seem to get wrapped up at some point.

[Clanstarling]

2 minutes ago, withanaich said:

The good guys will turn out to be shady

I agree. I think they've laid the groundwork for that (in my opinion). I've only seen Black Elon Musk in one other show, and his character was sketchy that show, so I'm inclined to be suspicious of anything he says. On top of that, he's forcing Rufus to do something Rufus feels is wrong. I don't know why, but I automatically trust Rufus.

[dubbel zout]

23 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I don't know why, but I automatically trust Rufus.

Because Rufus is awesome. He's the best part of the show, IMO, and Malcolm Barrett is being criminally underused.

[withanaich]

Quote

I've only seen Black Elon Musk in one other show, and his character was sketchy that show, so I'm inclined to be suspicious of anything he says.

Holy Wayne? Heh. I first saw Paterson Joseph in Survivors and I have a thing about sort of glomming onto actors with interesting names, but yeah. Ebony Elon is so shady. I think we can all agree on that. 

[Clanstarling]

37 minutes ago, withanaich said:

Holy Wayne?

Yep. I've only seen one other thing he's been in - The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency - I can't say I actually remember his character on the show (Idris Elba, on the other hand...).

Ebony Elon is a much better nickname.

[iMonrey]

I recognize Patterson Joseph from You, Me and the Apocalypse.

Quote

 I think he is Lucy's father in another timeline, 

I think he's her son from the future. That would explain why he doesn't want to tell her exactly what's going on; if she knows too much it might prevent her from actually having him.

On the other hand, if we take him at his word, Flynn is trying to "save" the future, presumably from Rittenhouse. So I think the theory already posited here that Rittenhouse invented time travel and somehow changed history, and that Flynn is trying to "fix" it, is possible. In fact Rittenhouse may only exist in the future, so whatever they've done may not yet be apparent to Lucy & Co. 

[LoneHaranguer]

On 10/11/2016 at 7:00 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Time travelers never remember the changed history its a.....trope?  I guess you'd call it. It even makes sense because you are the one doing the traveling and history doesn't change for you instead it is changing around you because of you.

There was a rebooted Outer Limits episode that had a time traveler who remembered all of the versions of history and it was getting stressful on her. The new Frequency series has adopted the same premise with its way of altering the past, but it's too soon to tell how that's going to affect the main character.

On 10/11/2016 at 7:37 PM, dargosmydaddy said:

That said, I  really like the chemistry all three leads have with one another, and I'm a sucker for the period settings and costumes.

I liked that the soldiers were able to spot that Rufus' uniform was a fake and accused him of dressing up to pick up girls. The show was able to inject some levity and save a few bucks on costuming.

[dubbel zout]

12 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I recognize Patterson Joseph from You, Me and the Apocalypse.

That's where I recognize him from. Thank you, iMonrey.

[Moose135]

19 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I recognize Patterson Joseph from You, Me and the Apocalypse.

I knew he was familiar when he first appeared, and it took me a few minutes to figure out why.  That's the only thing I remember seeing him in.

[Hanahope]

So will future episodes involve changes to minor details in history, such as the Lincoln assassination (where the identity of the killer was different, but Booth still got the blame and a mysterious woman got a school named after her for saving Grant), or more medium ones like the Hindenburg (where some people lived that should have died)?  I don't quite get why Lucy was so upset on the Lincoln one, the changes were very minor and really didn't affect anyone.

Interesting about Lucy's father not being her dad.   But really, you have to expect that her mother must have told her something in the 'revised' history, since Lucy wasn't told whether or not her mother married anyone else, so she was kindof taking a huge chance in confronting her mother at the party.  I'm sure its going to be some huge reveal as to who her father really is.  Frankly, I also wouldn't be surprised if Lucy's eventual help to Flynn ends up being important as to (a) whether Lucy is ever born and/or (b) whether she gets her sister back and/or (c) her finding out that Flynn is her yet to be conceived son.

So I think its pretty obvious that Flynn comes from the future, since he has this diary or manifesto that Lucy will eventually write.  If that's the case, how did he come back in time?  Did he find the magic ball from Continuum?  And what's so bad about the future that he needs to rewrite history?  At least with Continuum, we sortof saw some of the bad things that Liber8 was trying to prevent.

This episode is a good example.  How do we know that a not-assassinated Lincoln wouldn't have been significantly better than reconstruction Johnson?  Different, sure, but why would you assume it would be worse?  The leads are just comfortable in what they know.

[morriss]

Lucky for Lucy she finds her way home after each mission.  History has been altered, but she still lives in same house....lol

[dubbel zout]

I'd love it if she walked in the door and the current owners were all, "WTF? Get out before we call the police!"

[iMonrey]

Quote

 I don't quite get why Lucy was so upset on the Lincoln one, the changes were very minor and really didn't affect anyone.

Probably because she knows the changes she caused in 1937 wiped out the existence of her sister, so even if the changes she made in 1865 didn't directly affect her, they may have wiped out somebody else's sister out there somewhere.

Quote

So I think its pretty obvious that Flynn comes from the future, since he has this diary or manifesto that Lucy will eventually write.  If that's the case, how did he come back in time?

Time travel may be more prevalent in the future. I could also speculate that in the future Flynn worked for Rittenhouse, who invented and controls time travel, and perhaps was the stooge they used to send back in time and mess up history. That's how he knew where to find the time machine in 2016.

There was something of an obvious paradox in this episode when Agent Christopher was trying to rush Lucy & Co. by saying "Flynn may alter our reality at any moment." Well, the problem is . . . none of them would ever realize it. Each time Lucy, Wyatt and Rufus return to present day, they find an alternate reality where nobody there is aware of the fact that history has changed. To them, it's their established history. So, how would any of them even know if Flynn alters history in some monumental way? They will either a.) shift into an alternate reality that, to them, has always been that way or b.) remain in the current timeline wherein nothing changes, while only Flynn and company will access the new alternate timeline they created when they return to 2016.

[dubbel zout]

11 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

There was something of an obvious paradox in this episode when Agent Christopher was trying to rush Lucy & Co. by saying "Flynn may alter our reality at any moment." Well, the problem is . . . none of them would ever realize it. Each time Lucy, Wyatt and Rufus return to present day, they find an alternate reality where nobody there is aware of the fact that history has changed. To them, it's their established history.

And the group doesn't know what has been changed until it gets back to the present day and asks.

[tankgirl73]

The initial premise of a show only has to be what starts it off. It doesn't mean the formula has to remain exactly the same throughout the course of a series. Agents of SHIELD has completely changed each season, for instance. So just because Flynn is the 'bad guy' in the initial setup, doesn't mean the show is over if/when that changes.

 

6 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

There was something of an obvious paradox in this episode when Agent Christopher was trying to rush Lucy & Co. by saying "Flynn may alter our reality at any moment." Well, the problem is . . . none of them would ever realize it. Each time Lucy, Wyatt and Rufus return to present day, they find an alternate reality where nobody there is aware of the fact that history has changed.

I think this whole exchange demonstrates a particular 'rule' for time travel that the show is using. Cemented by the fact that when Lucy came back to present day, it was a day later (thus her going home to the party). Usually when we think of time travel, and past events affecting the future, we assume "it's always been the new way" and their days or weeks or months in the past have no time value in the present -- you can travel back in time, spend months there, and return to the same instant you left. That's how Doctor Who works, for instance.  (Doctor Who also allows multiple iterations of the same person in the same point in time, unlike Timeless).

And on the surface, that makes intuitive sense. Time that they're spending in 1800 happened in 1800... it's not happening now. So the whole "hurry up before he changes something" seems silly... if he changed something, he's already changed it, and the effects already exist and from their perspective always have.

So I think their version of time travel still has the travellers "tethered" to their present. If you think of the timeline as a long rope, folding back on itself, the time machine connect the two 'strands' (the past and present) and allowed the travellers to hop from one to the other. Imagine them lined up like two parallel lines with a loop over top. While they progress forward in time in the past timestream, it's still connected to the present timestream in the same parallel way.  When they've spent a week in one timestream and then return to the present, they will hop directly over into the point which is a week later than their departure. In a sense, the time they're spending in the past is still passing "now". The time machine itself creates this tether.

If this way of looking at it is correct, then it's likely that they can only do round trips -- you can travel to another time, and then back to where you started. Travelling to a different time would twist the timestream irresolvably. Maybe. But so far that's what they've done -- even Flynn has always returned to the present after each trip. Why doesn't he go directly to another time to try something else right away? Maybe he has to.

[blueray]

31 minutes ago, morriss said:

Lucky for Lucy she finds her way home after each mission.  History has been altered, but she still lives in same house....lol

I feel like the days are numbered for that. I do hope that they start showing the changes in the other two's lives as well. Because it can't just be hers that is messed up. There probably will be one that ends with Wyatt's wife being alive and him not wanting to go back in case he loses her, which of course for whatever reason results in him losing her again.

It was a risk for her to do it at the party, but she could have asked her in private about him. Either way it is a hard thing to do, as she doesn't know what this version of her already "knows".

[Hanahope]

27 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Probably because she knows the changes she caused in 1937 wiped out the existence of her sister, so even if the changes she made in 1865 didn't directly affect her, they may have wiped out somebody else's sister out there somewhere.

I'm not sure how.  No one lived that shouldn't have, no one died that didn't before.  

[Clanstarling]

39 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I'm not sure how.  No one lived that shouldn't have, no one died that didn't before.  

But one black family may have moved north based on Rufus' recommendation - which could have altered which children (if any) were conceived, which children (if any) lived or died and when. Lincoln's son Robert was present at the assassination, which he wasn't before, and could have influenced him to run for president - something people wanted him to do, but he never did. So there are many ways to alter history without killing or saving the primary historical figures.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Clanstarling

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, Hanahope said:

...So I think its pretty obvious that Flynn comes from the future, since he has this diary or manifesto that Lucy will eventually write.  If that's the case, how did he come back in time?  Did he find the magic ball from Continuum?  And what's so bad about the future that he needs to rewrite history?  At least with Continuum, we sortof saw some of the bad things that Liber8 was trying to prevent....

—Unless maybe Flynn is from the present and has just been to the future — or did they say that the time machine can't take them to the future? 

[legaleagle53]

39 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

—Unless maybe Flynn is from the present and has just been to the future — or did they say that the time machine can't take them to the future? 

As far as I know, they haven't said so.  It's just that the writers are so excited about the endless possibilities regarding historical events that for now, travel into the future isn't even on their radar.

[sjohnson]

Scientists would want to go to the future. Historians want to go to the past, and megalomaniacs who want to rewrite history. The very first time machine story had the traveler going forward in time. Most scifi shows and movies want to avoid the future though because they don't want the expense in money and thought to create a plausible future. 

[ChromaKelly]

22 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I'm not sure how.  No one lived that shouldn't have, no one died that didn't before.  

Didn't the man that jumped in front of the bullet intended for VP Johnson die? (not sure)

I feel like taking 21st century weapons into the past is a huge problem. I know the show briefly addressed it last episode, but someone's going to leave a gun behind and accelerate the pace of weapon development.
I do have to turn my mind off and not think too much about things to enjoy this show. I'll just go with whatever time travel rules they are putting down. I do hope the stumbling for names thing stops. It was cute the first time, but come on. 

[Wryly]

I still don't buy Prettyboy as a soldier or a grieving husband. He's just too pretty. Given their casting decision, I think they should rewrite Wyatt as a struggling actor. He's had a job on a soap opera, a menswear catalog, and an Axe body spray commercial. He's with the time travelers because he can... act. Like a... past person. Yeah. He's constantly trying to coach the other two in the ways of acting, which he refers to as "The Process," always with a dramatic hand gesture. Before they get in the time machine, he always meditates in costume, does yoga stretches to limber the body as if for a stage performance, ululates to exercise the vocal cords, and says some vaguely in-character phrases over and over to himself ("I would DIE to preserve the Union. I would die to PRESERVE the Union. I -- would -- DIE -- ").

Don't give him a dead wife in his past. But maybe one day while surfing, he lost his surfer buddy, Chad -- also a struggling model/actor -- to a tiger shark. At one point, Lucy has the power to make all tiger sharks extinct, but chooses not to because it would have unforeseeable consequences on marine life and therefore human history. Wyatt never forgives her insensitivity to shark-on-surfer violence, and the episode ends on his forlorn cry of "Chaaaaaaaaaaaad!"

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, Wryly said:

Don't give him a dead wife in his past. But maybe one day while surfing, he lost his surfer buddy, Chad -- also a struggling model/actor -- to a tiger shark. At one point, Lucy has the power to make all tiger sharks extinct, but chooses not to because it would have unforeseeable consequences on marine life and therefore human history. Wyatt never forgives her insensitivity to shark-on-surfer violence, and the episode ends on his forlorn cry of "Chaaaaaaaaaaaad!"

I think you forgot to take your meds!  :)

[Wryly]

1 minute ago, Netfoot said:

I think you forgot to take your meds!  :)

What? Too emotionally intense? I understand. Chad -- cut down in his prime... I grieve, too. No, no. Don't weep. Shh.

[Camera One]

I'm still interested in the show.  The three mains have good chemistry.  Granted, I was a little annoyed at the two guys for ganging up on Lucy about saving Abraham Lincoln, as if she was just a cold person for not agreeing to do it.  

So far, it's a little depressing in that both events involved people dying and they weren't supposed to do anything to stop it.  I do like the balance of drama, adventure and humor on this show so far.  

It makes no sense why Lucy would still look the same genetically, or even be the same person if her father was different in this timeline.  This put a bit of a dent in my curiosity about why her sister is erased from existence.  I'm also not too intrigued by the bigger mythology of Riddenhouse or what Flynn is trying to do.  Reminds me of the pointless and boring Rambaldi stuff from "Alias".

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, Camera One said:

It makes no sense why Lucy would still look the same genetically, or even be the same person if her father was different in this timeline.

My take on this is that the man she thought was her father, was never her father from the start. That her mom either had an affair with her father, or had a previous relationship neither she, nor her sister's father, ever mentioned.

[methodwriter85]

Quote

But one black family may have moved north based on Rufus' recommendation - which could have altered which children (if any) were conceived, which children (if any) lived or died and when. Lincoln's son Robert was present at the assassination, which he wasn't before, and could have influenced him to run for president - something people wanted him to do, but he never did. So there are many ways to alter history without killing or saving the primary historical figures.

I didn't get the feeling that the guy was actually going to follow Rufus's recommendation and move north. He's probably going to happily get his 40 acres and a mule, without an idea of the horrors of sharecropping.

As for Robert, maybe seeing his father get shot inspires him to NEVER run for president. I do wonder if they did change him, somehow...I always thought Robert was interesting purely because he's the only one of Lincoln's 4 sons to get to grow up and get married and have kids...because of him, Abe's direct family tree line doesn't die out until 1985. (Yeah, no, I'm not counting that very doubtful "relative".)

I think it's an interesting choice that the travelers don't get to "remember" the new history, like in Back to the Future. It's also going to be interesting to see how Lucy figures how (and if) she can bring her sister back to existence.

My guess is that Lucy's mother, after she got married to her husband, got bored/unhappy with the marriage and wound up having an affair with an "old flame", which results in Lucy. The affair stops (maybe as the result of the pregnancy?) and seven years later, they have their one child together, Amy. Maybe in this timeline, Lucy winds up marrying the affair guy when they conceive Lucy, because she's no longer married to Lucy's non-bio father.

Edited October 16, 2016 by methodwriter85

[KaveDweller]

44 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

As for Robert, maybe seeing his father get shot inspires him to NEVER run for president. I do wonder if they did change him, somehow...I always thought Robert was interesting purely because he's the only one of Lincoln's 4 sons to get to grow up and get married and have kids...because of him, Abe's direct family tree line doesn't die out until 1985. (Yeah, no, I'm not counting that very doubtful "relative".)

Robert was probably also impacted by meeting this woman he asked out, watched her try and save his father, and then disappear. I'm sure he met many woman over the years, but I think he'd remember this one.

[legaleagle53]

32 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Robert was probably also impacted by meeting this woman he asked out, watched her try and save his father, and then disappear. I'm sure he met many woman over the years, but I think he'd remember this one.

Clearly, "Juliet Shakesman" made enough of an impression that somebody named a high school after her, even if no one had ever heard of her before that night at Ford's Theater and she vanished like Cinderella after the ball afterwards.  So just imagine the impression she made on Robert himself.

One of the things I'm enjoying about this show is seeing the characters' reactions to actually being in past eras and interacting with the locals.  I mean, just this episode alone, we had Lucy's somewhat starstruck reactions to meeting President Lincoln, his son Robert, and Ulysses S. Grant in the flesh.  And Rufus' first interaction with the black soldier who wanted Rufus to tell the stories of the black men who had served with the Union was also a priceless moment for me.  I could feel Rufus' state of emotion as he realized that these weren't just meaningless names that he might have read in a history book -- these were real people who had had real lives and experiences.  Think for a moment how you yourself would feel once that realization hit you.

[possibilities]

On 10/14/2016 at 3:52 PM, dubbel zout said:

I'd love it if she walked in the door and the current owners were all, "WTF? Get out before we call the police!"

Yes, and then she could go live with Rufus, and he can confide in her about taping things and being under the thumb of Rittenhouse due to the debt to Shady Dude.

The way they always split up Rufus and Wyatt/Lucy during missions, is limiting the opportunities for Lucy/Rufus bonding, and leaving all the intrateam chemistry to develop between Lucy and Wyatt's Manpain, and I would much rather see her bond with Rufus, and the three of them ally with each other against Shady Dude.

[Camera One]

The way they always split up Rufus and Wyatt/Lucy during missions, is limiting the opportunities for Lucy/Rufus bonding, and leaving all the intrateam chemistry to develop between Lucy and Wyatt's Manpain, and I would much rather see her bond with Rufus, and the three of them ally with each other against Shady Dude.

It's only the second episode, so hopefully, that's in the plans for an upcoming episode.  This episode provided Wyatt and Rufus with some bonding time, which was also necessary.

When the doctor at the end asked how Wyatt was getting home and he said he'd call a cab, I thought his wife would walk in or he'd call his wife on the phone or something.

[legaleagle53]

5 minutes ago, Camera One said:

 

It's only the second episode, so hopefully, that's in the plans for an upcoming episode.  This episode provided Wyatt and Rufus with some bonding time, which was also necessary.

When the doctor at the end asked how Wyatt was getting home and he said he'd call a cab, I thought his wife would walk in or he'd call his wife on the phone or something.

Even if the trip to 1865 had somehow wiped out Wyatt's wife's death (for which Wyatt blames himself, and I am looking forward to getting the backstory on that at some point), he would have no more idea that she was alive in this timeline than Lucy did that her mother was hale and hearty and her sister had been wiped from existence until after she got home from their trip to 1937.  Like Lucy, he would still remember (and believe until proven otherwise) that she was dead.

[Camera One]

6 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Even if the trip to 1865 had somehow wiped out Wyatt's wife's death (for which Wyatt blames himself, and I am looking forward to getting the backstory on that at some point), he would have no more idea that she was alive in this timeline than Lucy did that her mother was hale and hearty and her sister had been wiped from existence until after she got home from their trip to 1937.  Like Lucy, he would still remember (and believe until proven otherwise) that she was dead.

I thought he might have been lying at the start of the episode when Lucy asked them if anything in their lives changed.  That the change with the Hindenburg in 1937 actually did bring his wife back and he was keeping it a secret.

[legaleagle53]

17 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I thought he might have been lying at the start of the episode when Lucy asked them if anything in their lives changed.  That the change with the Hindenburg in 1937 actually did bring his wife back and he was keeping it a secret.

Then his role in the argument that he, Lucy, and Rufus had over whether to save Lincoln would have been pointless, since one of the things he asked her point-blank was why it was OK for her to try to restore the timeline that had her sister in it but it was wrong for him to want to change the timeline in a way that would save his wife.  It would make no sense for him to make that argument if he already knew she was alive, since Lucy's point was that playing God with the timeline as Flynn was trying to do -- even for a good reason -- could have potentially disastrous consequences, if not for them personally, then for everyone else around them, and because of the rules of time travel, there would be no way to fix it once the damage had been done.  

If Wyatt knew that the timeline had already been altered to undo his wife's death, there'd be no reason for him to argue in favor of altering it further, unless he was actually trying to justify wanting to preserve the change.  If that were the case, the logical argument would be in favor of maintaining the changed timeline (which would have required him to admit that it had been changed so that his wife was really alive), not changing it further.

Edited October 17, 2016 by legaleagle53

[Camera One]

I was only voicing my in-the-moment speculation that his wife would walk in/call in that weird "I'll call a taxi" scene, which didn't feel necessary.  Clearly, his wife didn't show up and wasn't mentioned, so I don't think she's alive.

[methodwriter85]

7 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Clearly, "Juliet Shakesman" made enough of an impression that somebody named a high school after her, even if no one had ever heard of her before that night at Ford's Theater and she vanished like Cinderella after the ball afterwards.  So just imagine the impression she made on Robert himself.

I wonder if Robert himself campaigned for that school, although I'm not sure why someone who spent his life between D.C. and Vermont would want the school in New Jersey.

My thought about that moment at the end is that Matt Lanter is really considering changing history, and he was thinking to himself, "I do this, I can have a family again, someone to care about me."

Quote

The way they always split up Rufus and Wyatt/Lucy during missions, is limiting the opportunities for Lucy/Rufus bonding, and leaving all the intrateam chemistry to develop between Lucy and Wyatt's Manpain, and I would much rather see her bond with Rufus, and the three of them ally with each other against Shady Dude.

All I know is that shipping wars absolutely destroyed Sleepy Hollow, and I just want all of these people to be friends. Maybe some flirtation, but I just don't want to go through shipping wars on yet another scifi-show.

[legaleagle53]

7 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

I wonder if Robert himself campaigned for that school, although I'm not sure why someone who spent his life between D.C. and Vermont would want the school in New Jersey.

My thought about that moment at the end is that Matt Lanter is really considering changing history, and he was thinking to himself, "I do this, I can have a family again, someone to care about me."

All I know is that shipping wars absolutely destroyed Sleepy Hollow, and I just want all of these people to be friends. Maybe some flirtation, but I just don't want to go through shipping wars on yet another scifi-show.

I agree.  I don't think it should be at all hard to accept that Lucy can bond with Wyatt and Rufus on a strictly platonic, professional level.  After all, Lucy's got enough on her plate right now emotionally, Wyatt clearly has issues that he needs to work through (his drinking tipped me off right away that he's been trying to deal with his grief and guilt by drowning them instead of owning them and facing them), and Rufus, for reasons that have not yet been revealed, is some sort of mole who's been tasked with keeping tabs on Lucy and Wyatt during their missions.  Romantically shipping any combination of them would not only be ridiculous, it'd be pointless.

[green]

On 10/15/2016 at 8:04 PM, Wryly said:

I still don't buy Prettyboy as a soldier or a grieving husband. He's just too pretty. Given their casting decision, I think they should rewrite Wyatt as a struggling actor. He's had a job on a soap opera, a menswear catalog, and an Axe body spray commercial. He's with the time travelers because he can... act. Like a... past person. Yeah. He's constantly trying to coach the other two in the ways of acting, which he refers to as "The Process," always with a dramatic hand gesture. Before they get in the time machine, he always meditates in costume, does yoga stretches to limber the body as if for a stage performance, ululates to exercise the vocal cords, and says some vaguely in-character phrases over and over to himself ("I would DIE to preserve the Union. I would die to PRESERVE the Union. I -- would -- DIE -- ").

Don't give him a dead wife in his past. But maybe one day while surfing, he lost his surfer buddy, Chad -- also a struggling model/actor -- to a tiger shark. At one point, Lucy has the power to make all tiger sharks extinct, but chooses not to because it would have unforeseeable consequences on marine life and therefore human history. Wyatt never forgives her insensitivity to shark-on-surfer violence, and the episode ends on his forlorn cry of "Chaaaaaaaaaaaad!"

Brilliant.  Loved every word of your post!  This so is the soldier boy actor.  No one on earth would believe this actor's character was in the army let alone Delta Force.  So I am so happy you actually found him the one and only part he could play in this show, heh.

When the most improbable thing about a time travel show is the inability of an actor to play a simple part in said show you got major problems. Let them return to the present in an episode only to find out history has changed for him and he never joined the army but followed his passion as a model/surfer dude instead.  Then let him join Chad in a watery grave.

[bros402]

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

Yes, and then she could go live with Rufus, and he can confide in her about taping things and being under the thumb of Rittenhouse due to the debt to Shady Dude.

The way they always split up Rufus and Wyatt/Lucy during missions, is limiting the opportunities for Lucy/Rufus bonding, and leaving all the intrateam chemistry to develop between Lucy and Wyatt's Manpain, and I would much rather see her bond with Rufus, and the three of them ally with each other against Shady Dude.

The thing is, depending on the time period and location, Lucy/Rufus could be dangerous for him. Unless, of course, they plan out stores in advance.

[Clanstarling]

8 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

All I know is that shipping wars absolutely destroyed Sleepy Hollow, and I just want all of these people to be friends. Maybe some flirtation, but I just don't want to go through shipping wars on yet another scifi-show.

Amen.

[iMonrey]

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I still don't buy Prettyboy as a soldier or a grieving husband. He's just too pretty. Given their casting decision, I think they should rewrite Wyatt as a struggling actor. He's had a job on a soap opera, a menswear catalog, and an Axe body spray commercial. He's with the time travelers because he can... act. Like a... past person.

I have to agree with you on this because I spent the first two episodes wondering where I've seen this guy before, and finally got around to looking him up on IMDB. Turns out . . . I have never seen him in anything before. However, he looks like someone I've surely seen in something. Which makes him generically handsome - just as you described. Someone who jumped out of a soap opera or an Axe body spray commercial. 

[proserpina65]

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On completely shallow note, if Matt Lantner is going to be shirtless every week he needs to work out.

I thought he looked just fine shirtless.

[blackwing]

I really enjoyed this episode.  I'm a sucker for anything historical, and I loved seeing 1865 and the sets and the costumes.

Time travel always convolutes things of course, but I'm confused as to the research that the Middle Eastern (?) tech girl did for Lucy.  She said that Lucy's father married the granddaughter of a survivor of the Hindenburg.  In the now-current timeline, Lucy's sister Amy doesn't exist because father and Susannah Thompson never married.  The part I'm not getting is that the father was her father before she jumped into the timestream, and now that history has been altered and he married someone else, he's no longer her father?  If he was no longer her father, then her appearance should have changed.

The explanation on this was a bit of a fail.  They should have just said that in the changed timeline, her father and Susannah Thompson had an affair which resulted in Lucy.  But since it never happened again, there was no Amy.

Are we going to get to see how Wyatt and Rufus' lives change?  Now Lucy has a fiance.  I would like to see Wyatt go home and find his pregnant wife there.

On 10/13/2016 at 3:03 PM, TVHappy9463 said:

if Matt Lantner is going to be shirtless every week he needs to work out. 

I would agree his body looks very doughy.  I'm always surprised when actors who make their money on their looks and body and are asked to take their shirts off every week don't seem like they are bothering to hire a personal trainer.

[shapeshifter]

16 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

...I wonder if Robert himself campaigned for that school, although I'm not sure why someone who spent his life between D.C. and Vermont would want the school in New Jersey....

It would be interesting if Lucy eventually does talk to her mother through the ham radio and shares the Lincoln experience with her mom, who then does some historical archives/diaries/letters research and lobbies for the school to be named after Lucy's alias. 

[Lugal]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

The part I'm not getting is that the father was her father before she jumped into the timestream, and now that history has been altered and he married someone else, he's no longer her father?  If he was no longer her father, then her appearance should have changed.

The explanation was he never was her father, which is why she still exists at all.  It seems to be a painful fact for her mother since she did not want to talk about it.  Lucy would never known if it weren't for the fact that she continues to exist in the new timeline.