S08.E23: Reunion Part 3

[RedheadZombie]

11 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 

I don't think anyone was suggesting that Lu and Beth's "brands of imperfections" are equal.  But your post did just illustrated the point I was trying to make perfectly.

Responding to the discussion about Luanne being a stealthy, phony liar with a point by point comparison emphasizing how much worse Bethenny is in those same respects suggests that how the two women stack up against each other in terms of "awfulness" is an important consideration.  But to me it isn't.  I think it's irrelevant.

It just feels like an attempt to clear Luann's name by smearing Bethenny's but it doesn't work.  Emphasizing that Bethenny is flawed doesn't do one thing to vitiate the criticism of the countess.  Arguing Bethenny's schemes and plots are waged with more effectiveness doesn't erase the fact that Luann is guilty of her own manipulations and machinations, however transparent or feckless they might have been.  The suggestion that Luann's lies are spontaneous and that makes them forgivable while Bethenny's better though-out misrepresentations are inexcusable is just giving Luann the benefit of a double standard (one could easily take every argument about how Luann's lies are okay because they pertain to her private life which she doesn't want used as show fodder and apply them to the lies Bethenny has been telling about her private life that she doesn't want used as show fodder).  The fact that Bethenny gets in people's face and uses horrible language is, I acknowledge, a lot uglier than the way Luann goes about inflicting her little jabs.  But it doesn't mean that people can't still find Luann's behavior objectionable. 

Shoegirl said it best a few pages back - I wish I could find her post.  To paraphrase, she compared discussion of these women here to the current political trend of people on TV responding to a question or criticism about "their" candidate with a barrage of attacks on the other candidate.  Ask where Candidate A's taxes are and all you hear in response is people shouting about Candidate B's missing emails. But those things are separate issues.  Just like Bethenny and Luann are separate housewives.  They don't cancel each other out, and the behavior of one doesn't trump the other and make discussion of it unreasonable.

heh, see what I did there?  "trump" hehe

I will show myself out now.

This season has had an ever increasing amount of "But Bethenny" in response to any and all criticism of Lu.  It must be difficult for those who strongly dislike both women.   New to me is that Bethenny is now that disgusting porn star that made those filthy videos, which sounds like something my grandmother would have said if she were alive.  I care little for Bethenny, but these counter arguments really ruin these threads for me.  They're just one step up from, "Your mama". 

So even though I don't like Beth, I can only take so much of this constant grind.  It's past Kim Richards level for me at this point.  And while trashing Beth, there seems to be the need to attack Guilty By Association Carole.  So there's always a horse/mule/teeth/chewing/up Beth's ass comment thrown in as an almost knee-jerk response.  Carole could be on camera for thirty seconds of pleasant smiling, and there would most likely still be these same comments.  It's like bitch eating crackers for some.

It reminds me of the Angelina Jolie versus Jennifer Anniston fan wars, but on a much smaller level, and much more one sided.

[glowbug]

I absolutely can't stand Ramona. I've disliked her from day one of season one and she's the main reason I stopped watching after season four (I couldn't take another episode of her and I hadn't really "liked" any of the housewives on this franchise since season two). I finally came back last year and my opinion of her hasn't changed. She is my least favorite New York Housewife and I don't get any sense of enjoyment from watching her. 

Edited September 20, 2016 by glowbug

[Jel]

I read MotorCityMom's use of the word "fantastic" as a hyperbolic (hey, this is a snark forum, so allowed) adjective used to represent the many wonderful qualities that Luann has suddenly acquired now that she's Team Anti-Bethenny.  

Just like the word "monster" is sometimes used here to describe the human being, Bethenny Frankel -- of course she isn't an actual, literal monster, but we get your point. 

[Yours Truly]

12 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

OK, I'll pull a Bethenny & ask anyone to find 1 comment which says Lu is "fantastic".  Good luck finding it.  Look, this ain't a hard one to explain -- I mean why the tide (here, at least) has mostly turned against Bethenny, and tipped far, far toward Lu.  Er, has Lu changed much?  I dare say not.  She's still a ridiculous & utterly pretentious phony-baloney snob.  And she's nasty as hell to boot.  But lately (and this season in particular, but probably for the last few seasons), we haven't seen much of her haughtiness that was so damn obnoxious in the past.  

And on the Bethenny side, all we see is her scary reign of terror -- the name-calling & rages & random, relentless nastiness to those who don't kiss up to her.  And that's puzzling -- who viewers would take to?  A scary, rage-filled, nasty, cruel, humorless Bethenny or a seemingly carefree. hot-to-trot Lu?  Shrugging hard, but I'll take Lu . . . for now anyway, rather than the currently monstrous Bethenny.  I'm not so thrilled with Lu, but I do like that she's got the courage to stand up to Bethenny.  It takes exceptional courage to stand up to her now.

BINGO!!!

[Otherkate]

11 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Everything but that. I guess that word isn't specific enough. People really like to pinpoint what exactly it is about Luann that they love. Almost as much as they enjoying particularizing the precise reasons they despise Bethenny. 

Where were you people when I needed help eviscerating Ramona a few years ago, that's what I want to know!  I could have used some help.

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't take you literally. I assumed you meant people saying lots of positive things about Lu to the point where it doesn't jive up with the general opinion of Lu over the years. Which has struck me as well. Speaking as someone who has always quite enjoyed Lu. 

8 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

This season has had an ever increasing amount of "But Bethenny" in response to any and all criticism of Lu.  It must be difficult for those who strongly dislike both women.   New to me is that Bethenny is now that disgusting porn star that made those filthy videos, which sounds like something my grandmother would have said if she were alive.  I care little for Bethenny, but these counter arguments really ruin these threads for me.  They're just one step up from, "Your mama". 

 

And yes. God, yes. 

[Yours Truly]

9 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

This season has had an ever increasing amount of "But Bethenny" in response to any and all criticism of Lu.  It must be difficult for those who strongly dislike both women.   New to me is that Bethenny is now that disgusting porn star that made those filthy videos, which sounds like something my grandmother would have said if she were alive.  I care little for Bethenny, but these counter arguments really ruin these threads for me.  They're just one step up from, "Your mama". 

So even though I don't like Beth, I can only take so much of this constant grind.  It's past Kim Richards level for me at this point.  And while trashing Beth, there seems to be the need to attack Guilty By Association Carole.  So there's always a horse/mule/teeth/chewing/up Beth's ass comment thrown in as an almost knee-jerk response.  Carole could be on camera for thirty seconds of pleasant smiling, and there would most likely still be these same comments.  It's like bitch eating crackers for some.

It reminds me of the Angelina Jolie versus Jennifer Anniston fan wars, but on a much smaller level, and much more one sided.

I think what's happening is that people are treating Beth's past as if Beth were addressing the information. The extended intensity Beth displayed when "calling out" Lu and her sexual prowess was rather disturbing to most. In that vein Beth's past is being addressed with the same amount of rudeness to highlight just how easy it is to have the same amount of dripping disdain when referring to her "checkered" past.

[izabella]

I'm one who used to loathe Luann during her attacks on Alex phase.  I liked Lu better when she got divorced, and then hated Ramona (more than I already did) when she kept lording her perfect marriage to the perfect Mario over Lu and the other women.  I genuinely liked Lu when Sonja told us Lu buys giant, economy sized bags of "potato ships" and Lu told her she was speaking in tongues and had lost her mind (I think Sonja is a vile defrauding piece of work, too).  I was back to disliking Lu in Turks until we discovered it was Ramona who put naked juice guy in the room next to Heather's and lied about it by pointing fingers at Luann.

But this season takes the cake.  I still don't "like" Luann.  However, the vitriol hurled at her by Bethy this season, and the casual way Bethy calls Lu a whore and uses that to justify calling her a whore and gunning for her all season, makes me put Lu way up here and Bethy way down there in my mind. 

I would not compare the vileness of the two except that Bethy has made it her mission to take down Luann since the beginning of the season for no reason.  The level of anger and vileness Bethy spewed at Lu forces me to make that comparison.  If she hadn't targeted her, I would probably still dislike Lu the way I do most of the rest of them.  Bethy turned Lu into a persecuted underdog, with an assist from Ramona and Sonja, and Carole's support.  I'm glad Lu mostly let it roll off her back and stood up to the mean girls.

Also, Bethy is ever increasingly vile NOW while the vileness of Lu was seasons ago so I can't get too bothered.  Plus, Lu buys giant bags of potato ships, y'all! 

[Jel]

3 minutes ago, izabella said:

I'm one who used to loathe Luann during her attacks on Alex phase.  I liked Lu better when she got divorced, and then hated Ramona (more than I already did) when she kept lording her perfect marriage to the perfect Mario over Lu and the other women.  I genuinely liked Lu when Sonja told us Lu buys giant, economy sized bags of "potato ships" and Lu told her she was speaking in tongues and had lost her mind (I think Sonja is a vile defrauding piece of work, too).  I was back to disliking Lu in Turks until we discovered it was Ramona who put naked juice guy in the room next to Heather's and lied about it by pointing fingers at Luann.

But this season takes the cake.  I still don't "like" Luann.  However, the vitriol hurled at her by Bethy this season, and the casual way Bethy calls Lu a whore and uses that to justify calling her a whore and gunning for her all season, makes me put Lu way up here and Bethy way down there in my mind. 

I would not compare the vileness of the two except that Bethy has made it her mission to take down Luann since the beginning of the season for no reason.  The level of anger and vileness Bethy spewed at Lu forces me to make that comparison.  If she hadn't targeted her, I would probably still dislike Lu the way I do most of the rest of them.  Bethy turned Lu into a persecuted underdog, with an assist from Ramona and Sonja, and Carole's support.  I'm glad Lu mostly let it roll off her back and stood up to the mean girls.

Also, Bethy is ever increasingly vile NOW while the vileness of Lu was seasons ago so I can't get too bothered.  Plus, Lu buys giant bags of potato ships, y'all! 

Dollars to donuts, Bethenny thinks she has a reason. (Not saying its justified, just saying Bethenny has an old axe to grind with Lu; it ain't coming out of nowhere.)

[Otherkate]

18 minutes ago, izabella said:

Plus, Lu buys giant bags of potato ships, y'all! 

Hah, I forgot about that! Lu > Countess

[WireWrap]

19 minutes ago, Jel said:

Dollars to donuts, Bethenny thinks she has a reason. (Not saying its justified, just saying Bethenny has an old axe to grind with Lu; it ain't coming out of nowhere.)

I'm not so sure of that. At the end of last season, after they came back from T&C, Bethenny was firmly in Luann's corner defending her. Telling Carole how wrong she/Heather were about Luann, that Luann had changed, she wasn't the "Countess" anymore, that she was so "open" about herself and that she really enjoyed/liked/cared about Luann. Bethenny defended Luann throughout the reunion last season, even to Carole.

Now, this season starts and Bethenny is going after both Sonja and Luann right out of the gate, big time. What is so different this season??? Well, it is the fact that Luann, Sonja and Ramona tried to get more money, a bigger paycheck this season, more along the lines of Bethenny's paycheck....that's it. Ramona settled  before filming began but Luann/Sonja didn't and for some reason that ticked Bethenny off big time. Seriously, it was/is none of Bethenny's business if any other HWs want to try and get a bigger paycheck, none, and she needs to get off her high horse about it.

[zoeysmom]

17 hours ago, Jel said:

I have a terrible memory for this show, but didn't she mean tweet Carole a lot about her boyfriend? Called Carole a pedophile or some such. That's pretty mean.

Then she did get in the middle of Ramona's Beth and Jill reunion scheme -- said a few things, didn't pass on some information (or something?). That's plotting.

She went out of her way season one to be The Countess, with the etiquette tips and the decorum and her wonderful marriage to the Couuuunt, when it wasn't wonderful.  She was "fake". Some people are bothered by that kind of dishonesty; I'm guessing Bethenny is one of those.

Jill was essentially "ambushed" (the episode was in fact titled "The Ambush) http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-3/the-ambush and when she wasn't prepared to talk to Bethenny, Luann escorted Jill out.  I would not call it plotting, more running interference.  It was Ramona and Bethenny that decided to set up a reunion ambush. Luann did though advise Jill not to go to St. John and surprise Bethenny with a visit.  Jill did it anyway with disastrous results.

I never really recall her saying her marriage was wonderful what I remembered most, was the Count seemed to be travelling on business a lot.  Luann wasn't too thrilled with him when he showed up late to the horse event and missed his daughter's ride.  It seems to me these RH take one of two approaches with their marriage, they are either seemingly happy and devoted, or they are on the brink of dissolution (Kristen).   For Luann when her marriage worked is was a great marriage, when it broke down, it was still a great marriage that didn't last.  Ramona faked the last couple of years with Mario, and I think she adopted the same philosophy - it was a great marriage and then it wasn't.

Bethenny wasn't a party to the de Lesseps marriage-why should she give a fig if they didn't choose to disclose publicly the uncoupling?  Bethenny went into her second marriage with a question mark and ended up spending longer to undo it than the actual marriage.  She put it out there warts and scars and I am not sure that is really all that special. 

When the show first started it was about moms and their children.  Bethenny didn't have children and a pretty dim prospect in a marriage with Jason C..  So I guess her relevance became tearing down the others' marriages and behavior.  By the second season Reunion, the others called her out for her snarky comments in her confessionals.   

I am always at a loss why etiquette and one's marital status are even causally related.  Etiquette has far more to so with making others feel comfortable than it does dating and marriage behavior.  For example, Bethenny called out Carole on her breach of etiquette with her continued tardiness.  She even went so far as to why it was a breach.  To me, Bethenny calling Carole out has nothing to do with the Dennis' marital status or when Bethenny started banging Dennis.  For some reason, Bethenny equates etiquette with marriage and dating behavior.

[ScoobieDoobs]

I know nothing of the Bethenny-does--porn stuff, but it is kinda delish, I mean if she screeched about Lu being a slut & a ho -- and she's got some porn in her past (whether soft, hard or whatever).  Let's see, I'm supposed to buy she's brutally honest & NOT a hypocrite, eh?  Mmmm, kay, Bethenny, just so I got that straight.

I don't get the comparisons to Angie & Jen.  Unless Lu & Bethenny have shared a scuzzy man fuckdoll & I missed that -- and it was discussed in this ep.

Wonder how long the show's couples are gonna last -- I mean Lu & Tom and Bethenny & Dennis.  I'm not exactly seeing everlasting love for any of 'em.

Curious if Moaner will finally chuck out those silly, ratty extensions & come back with a short 'do & tell everyone she looks like Cameron Diaz.  Oh Moaner.

Edited September 20, 2016 by ScoobieDoobs

[jinjer]

I think the comparisons between Luann and Bethenny only arose because Bethenny went after Luann hard this season. I was trying to figure out why Bethenny was so pissed at Luann to deserve such vitriol and looking at Luann's behavior, I didn't see anything other than, "I'm so in love; did I tell you I'm getting married?"  Bethenny at the last reunion said Luann was "the Cool Countess". They were in a good place.  So I think comparisons between their behavior as they were "rivals" is only natural. 

I think Luann got a lot of so-called praise on the boards after her special not for her how she lived her life but rather for what an amazing life she lived - she had a lot of incredible experiences -  pre-housewives.  (I think a lot of B's anger stems from the fact that Luann got her own special.) People also remarked that Luann is a "move on" type of person rather than a grudge holder. None of this type of language is gushing praise like "fantastic."  I think it's really accurate assessments of who Luann is - she can let Bethenny rip her to shreds and then say "I hope we can be friends again one day" or let Ramona rip Victoria and just move on.  It plays both ways on her character - some might see that as a fault. Some people would never want to move on with Ramona/Bethenny after stuff like that and rightly so IMO.   

ETA Ramona is horrible as a person.

Edited September 20, 2016 by jinjer

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

Jill was essentially "ambushed" (the episode was in fact titled "The Ambush) http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-3/the-ambush and when she wasn't prepared to talk to Bethenny, Luann escorted Jill out.  I would not call it plotting, more running interference.  It was Ramona and Bethenny that decided to set up a reunion ambush. Luann did though advise Jill not to go to St. John and surprise Bethenny with a visit.  Jill did it anyway with disastrous results.

I never really recall her saying her marriage was wonderful what I remembered most, was the Count seemed to be travelling on business a lot.  Luann wasn't too thrilled with him when he showed up late to the horse event and missed his daughter's ride.  It seems to me these RH take one of two approaches with their marriage, they are either seemingly happy and devoted, or they are on the brink of dissolution (Kristen).   For Luann when her marriage worked is was a great marriage, when it broke down, it was still a great marriage that didn't last.  Ramona faked the last couple of years with Mario, and I think she adopted the same philosophy - it was a great marriage and then it wasn't.

Bethenny wasn't a party to the de Lesseps marriage-why should she give a fig if they didn't choose to disclose publicly the uncoupling?  Bethenny went into her second marriage with a question mark and ended up spending longer to undo it than the actual marriage.  She put it out there warts and scars and I am not sure that is really all that special. 

When the show first started it was about moms and their children.  Bethenny didn't have children and a pretty dim prospect in a marriage with Jason C..  So I guess her relevance became tearing down the others' marriages and behavior.  By the second season Reunion, the others called her out for her snarky comments in her confessionals.   

I am always at a loss why etiquette and one's marital status are even causally related.  Etiquette has far more to so with making others feel comfortable than it does dating and marriage behavior.  For example, Bethenny called out Carole on her breach of etiquette with her continued tardiness.  She even went so far as to why it was a breach.  To me, Bethenny calling Carole out has nothing to do with the Dennis' marital status or when Bethenny started banging Dennis.  For some reason, Bethenny equates etiquette with marriage and dating behavior.

Yeah, I don't get this either.

Lu wrote a book on etiquette.

To be honest etiquette (and being a good hostess) is about making people around you comfortable in a SOCIAL setting or event. It's not about being this saintly person who only behaves in a perfect manor throughout their whole lives.  It was simple a guidebook. Kinda like an FAQ and she was using her own knowledge on the particulars of the subject to author it.

Beth turns this into the worse ever offense for anyone to commit and I never truly got the connection. It's such a stretch to tie Lu's personality fails to the audacity of writing an etiquette book. Which to a lot of people made a lot of sense considering the various social settings she has found herself in over the years. It's kinda like everyone saying Sonja should write a book on entertaining in the city or along those lines cause it goes with the theme of her life. Lu found herself in those sort of "stuffy" and "elite" situations so why not lend that experience to a book deal about how to get through a black tie, white glove evening or event? Cliff notes for the masses. No brainer. Business move and cool vanity project.

None of that has anything to do with Lu and her relationship faux pas. Lu and her relationship hiccups with other women on more personal notes. Lu and her ability as a mother or woman or sexually free person. Etiquette has it's very specific place in the big scheme of things. It's not some blanket distinction of who is worthy and who isn't.

It's insane.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Jel]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

Jill was essentially "ambushed" (the episode was in fact titled "The Ambush) http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-3/the-ambush and when she wasn't prepared to talk to Bethenny, Luann escorted Jill out.  I would not call it plotting, more running interference.  It was Ramona and Bethenny that decided to set up a reunion ambush. Luann did though advise Jill not to go to St. John and surprise Bethenny with a visit.  Jill did it anyway with disastrous results.

I never really recall her saying her marriage was wonderful what I remembered most, was the Count seemed to be travelling on business a lot.  Luann wasn't too thrilled with him when he showed up late to the horse event and missed his daughter's ride.  It seems to me these RH take one of two approaches with their marriage, they are either seemingly happy and devoted, or they are on the brink of dissolution (Kristen).   For Luann when her marriage worked is was a great marriage, when it broke down, it was still a great marriage that didn't last.  Ramona faked the last couple of years with Mario, and I think she adopted the same philosophy - it was a great marriage and then it wasn't.

Bethenny wasn't a party to the de Lesseps marriage-why should she give a fig if they didn't choose to disclose publicly the uncoupling?  Bethenny went into her second marriage with a question mark and ended up spending longer to undo it than the actual marriage.  She put it out there warts and scars and I am not sure that is really all that special. 

When the show first started it was about moms and their children.  Bethenny didn't have children and a pretty dim prospect in a marriage with Jason C..  So I guess her relevance became tearing down the others' marriages and behavior.  By the second season Reunion, the others called her out for her snarky comments in her confessionals.   

I am always at a loss why etiquette and one's marital status are even causally related.  Etiquette has far more to so with making others feel comfortable than it does dating and marriage behavior.  For example, Bethenny called out Carole on her breach of etiquette with her continued tardiness.  She even went so far as to why it was a breach.  To me, Bethenny calling Carole out has nothing to do with the Dennis' marital status or when Bethenny started banging Dennis.  For some reason, Bethenny equates etiquette with marriage and dating behavior.

Totally agree with you about what etiquette is; I'd say Beth's beef about the marriage/dating biz is related to decorum, vs. etiquette.   Bethenny (I'm guessing) was irked because Lu put lots of emphasis on how one should behave, but privately wasn't behaving like that. Perhaps Beth's idea of good manners is the old pearl clutching aunt. I'm not saying that is the correct interpretation, just speculating about what Bethy's take on it might be.  But if you are a proud "NO BS" person like Bethenny, that sort of private vs. public persona discrepancy comes off as dishonest, and I think that was part of the reason she didn't care much for Luann. Is it justified? I don't know.

The etiquette thing -- I vaguely remember Lu giving some tips on how one should behave, proper forms of address (bethenny and her "improper" driver introduction sticks out in my mind).  I liked Lu that early on that year because initially she seemed pretty big on not making people feel bad (great manners) -- esp. the Simon situation. (Not that I was a big Simon fan - jeez).  Then she started to lose me with the you should introduce me as Mrs. de Lesseps, to the driver, and the keep away re: Jill and Bethenny.

As I've said, my memory for this show is not great, but I do have a lingering feeling of annoyance at Lu for the way she handled the Bethenny/Jill ambush (what the hell, let's call it that :): she was way too involved, and it seemed to me that she had her own agenda. That seemed kinda schemy to me, but I get that YMMV.

I do agree with Bethenny that it's rude to (habitually) keep people waiting.  And I don't agree with the way she tells people it's rude. So, split the difference? 

[charming]

The problem I have with Bethenny being on the show and her relentless attacks on women she doesn't like is there isn't an even playing field. 

Ramona attacks John and Dorinda (rightly or wrongly) will ask her where Mario is? Oh right, he left you for another woman. Ramona attacks LuAnn and gets it right back. 

Bethenny attacks John and...crickets?  Bethenny attacks Jules over her eating disorder and...crickets. Bethenny attacks Luann over being a plastic fuckdoll..and crickets. They're afraid of her and the power she's been given and that does not make interesting television. It's just Bethenny screaming at whomever she's angry with that day and them cowering and praying that someone else is next.

She wants to drag John for trying to promote his business? She does the same. She wants to say LuAnn is desperate to get married and it's all for the show? Um, but Bethenny's Getting Married was just fine and completely organic? Bethenny wants to talk about Tom or John's character? Really? Bethenny dated a man who was kicked out of college for RAPE. Just let that sink in. Can you fucking imagine if "someone" texted Bethenny with this kind of information about a man one of the other women dated? Can you imagine Bethenny and Carole sitting around talking about Jules if she decided to put on Rio's pajamas and brag about how they fit her?

Let the other women defend themselves or give Bethenny her own show with her paid employees who have to put up with her shit.

[Ellee]

Bethenny and Andy fighting?

 

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/is-real-housewives-of-nyc-star-61315.aspx

[Mrs peel]

13 minutes ago, Ellee said:

Bethenny and Andy fighting?

 

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/is-real-housewives-of-nyc-star-61315.aspx

The idea that they are fighting is ridiculous, if so he wouldn't have had her, and she didn't need to appear, on WWHL.  And the idea that she didn't want to 'go there' on the question of drug use is even more laughable!  Sure, she didn't want to be involved in the "drama" - she was the major player in the drama!

I can believe she didn't want to be asked about Shields, but if she's going to call Lu a whore multiple times, she better be willing to discuss the married guy she's dating (especially when she's willing to appear in public with him, heck, does anyone think she isn't the one calling the paps and Page 6 to announce when they'll be out together???).  And since she seems to have had his daughter on speed-dial, she was prepared for that conversation.

[JakeyJokes]

I *do* believe the scuttlebutt that Bethenny did the Lu angle because she was promised the producer credit (and she dotted all her i's and crossed all her t's) and now Cohen is pulling a Lucy-with-the-football move on her.

[jaync]

Quote

Also, Bethy is ever increasingly vile NOW while the vileness of Lu was seasons ago so I can't get too bothered.

For real. The notion that if you disagreed with a HW in the past, then you must never be on their side, is puzzling. As is the finger-wagging over what and how others post.

Quote

Let the other women defend themselves or give Bethenny her own show with her paid employees who have to put up with her shit.

Pass the plate, please.

[SCS]

4 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

Yeah, I don't get this either.

Lu wrote a book on etiquette.

To be honest etiquette (and being a good hostess) is about making people around you comfortable in a SOCIAL setting or event. It's not about being this saintly person who only behaves in a perfect manor throughout their whole lives.  It was simple a guidebook. Kinda like an FAQ and she was using her own knowledge on the particulars of the subject to author it.

Beth turns this into the worse ever offense for anyone to commit and I never truly got the connection. It's such a stretch to tie Lu's personality fails to the audacity of writing an etiquette book. Which to a lot of people made a lot of sense considering the various social settings she has found herself in over the years. It's kinda like everyone saying Sonja should write a book on entertaining in the city or along those lines cause it goes with the theme of her life. Lu found herself in those sort of "stuffy" and "elite" situations so why not lend that experience to a book deal about how to get through a black tie, white glove evening or event? Cliff notes for the masses. No brainer. Business move and cool vanity project.

None of that has anything to do with Lu and her relationship faux pas. Lu and her relationship hiccups with other women on more personal notes. Lu and her ability as a mother or woman or sexually free person. Etiquette has it's very specific place in the big scheme of things. It's not some blanket distinction of who is worthy and who isn't.

It's insane.

 

Except that Lu on camera Lu has not done the first bolded ^^ and has done the second. Remember Morocco? Lu declared herself the hostess of the riad (with production's help, of course) and then spent much time bashing Alex, Ramona and, to a lesser degree, Sonja for various perceived infractions, eg, scolding them -- seriously, Countess? --for being late to dinner (even tho all 3 women claimed they hadn't been informed of the dine time.) Lu also mocked Alex's attire for the camel excursion; ironically, Alex is the only person who bothers to ask Lu if she's alright after the camel starts bucking. And once back in the US, Lu sneers at what she calls Alex's "Herman Munster shoes." Charming. 

Lu made it extremely clear she felt Alex was beneath her tho why I don't think has ever been explained. Perhaps your word choice of worthy is accurate -- until Alex left the show, Lu, IMO, felt Alex was unworthy. Not much etiquette to be proud of there, Countess.

Edited September 20, 2016 by steelcitysister
just 'cause

[zoeysmom]

3 hours ago, Jel said:

Totally agree with you about what etiquette is; I'd say Beth's beef about the marriage/dating biz is related to decorum, vs. etiquette.   Bethenny (I'm guessing) was irked because Lu put lots of emphasis on how one should behave, but privately wasn't behaving like that. Perhaps Beth's idea of good manners is the old pearl clutching aunt. I'm not saying that is the correct interpretation, just speculating about what Bethy's take on it might be.  But if you are a proud "NO BS" person like Bethenny, that sort of private vs. public persona discrepancy comes off as dishonest, and I think that was part of the reason she didn't care much for Luann. Is it justified? I don't know.

The etiquette thing -- I vaguely remember Lu giving some tips on how one should behave, proper forms of address (bethenny and her "improper" driver introduction sticks out in my mind).  I liked Lu that early on that year because initially she seemed pretty big on not making people feel bad (great manners) -- esp. the Simon situation. (Not that I was a big Simon fan - jeez).  Then she started to lose me with the you should introduce me as Mrs. de Lesseps, to the driver, and the keep away re: Jill and Bethenny.

As I've said, my memory for this show is not great, but I do have a lingering feeling of annoyance at Lu for the way she handled the Bethenny/Jill ambush (what the hell, let's call it that :): she was way too involved, and it seemed to me that she had her own agenda. That seemed kinda schemy to me, but I get that YMMV.

I do agree with Bethenny that it's rude to (habitually) keep people waiting.  And I don't agree with the way she tells people it's rude. So, split the difference? 

The irony with the first season, is Andy and Bethenny to a certain degree would turn to "Countess" and ask her an etiquette question during the Reunion.  Usually it was about Ramona's behavior.  It was until the last question when Andy asked where they were going from there, and Luann answered she been offered a book deal on class with the Countess, Bethenny got surly.  I am going to say because Bethenny worked hard to get a book deal for her first book and it just seemed to fall into Luann's lap.

Personally, far worse to me than some of the guy stuff Bethenny berates Luann about is Bethenny getting on tables and dancing, doing handstands in nice restaurants.   She did at her birthday last season and again in the Turks & Caicos. having said that I don't think it eliminates her from discussing tardiness of Carole.

Many, many people consider it bad form to spill your guts about your private life and personal interactions.  I would say in the reality TV genre, little good has come from bashing one's own family. Granted a couple of the Atlanta women were literally abandoned by their mothers but their goal seemed like getting answers rather than just bashing. I think we have all been in a social situation where a conversation is monopolized with TMI regarding a divorce or health issue.  I just never realized people have to be told to STFU and have obscenities screamed at them to recapture their privacy.  

[zoeysmom]

2 hours ago, Mrs peel said:

The idea that they are fighting is ridiculous, if so he wouldn't have had her, and she didn't need to appear, on WWHL.  And the idea that she didn't want to 'go there' on the question of drug use is even more laughable!  Sure, she didn't want to be involved in the "drama" - she was the major player in the drama!

I can believe she didn't want to be asked about Shields, but if she's going to call Lu a whore multiple times, she better be willing to discuss the married guy she's dating (especially when she's willing to appear in public with him, heck, does anyone think she isn't the one calling the paps and Page 6 to announce when they'll be out together???).  And since she seems to have had his daughter on speed-dial, she was prepared for that conversation.

Andy and Bethenny are both far too smart to have a disagreement.  Asking for a EP position on a show this is established might be brash but I am quite certain Bravo has other ways of mollifying her desire, if it exists for control of the show.  I tend to believe Bethenny when she said she has to check her work schedule to see if the show fits into her lifestyle next year.   The downside is what if Season 9 becomes another Season 6 or 7?  You can only resurrect a show so many times.  This week Andy gave an interview saying Dorinda saved this franchise and Shannon the RHOC.  I think the bigger issue for Bethenny is by the time the episodes airs she has moved on and the Reunion is an annual last check you have to write.

I have often wondered why we never see pictures of Jason and I think the answer is clear-Jason doesn't call or have his people call to report his presence to the media.   We don't see the rest of the cast unless it is in front of a step and repeat.  I cannot believe any news agency has the resourses to stalk Bethenny Frankel's movements.

[Jel]

23 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

The irony with the first season, is Andy and Bethenny to a certain degree would turn to "Countess" and ask her an etiquette question during the Reunion.  Usually it was about Ramona's behavior.  It was until the last question when Andy asked where they were going from there, and Luann answered she been offered a book deal on class with the Countess, Bethenny got surly.  I am going to say because Bethenny worked hard to get a book deal for her first book and it just seemed to fall into Luann's lap.

Personally, far worse to me than some of the guy stuff Bethenny berates Luann about is Bethenny getting on tables and dancing, doing handstands in nice restaurants.   She did at her birthday last season and again in the Turks & Caicos. having said that I don't think it eliminates her from discussing tardiness of Carole.

Many, many people consider it bad form to spill your guts about your private life and personal interactions.  I would say in the reality TV genre, little good has come from bashing one's own family. Granted a couple of the Atlanta women were literally abandoned by their mothers but their goal seemed like getting answers rather than just bashing. I think we have all been in a social situation where a conversation is monopolized with TMI regarding a divorce or health issue.  I just never realized people have to be told to STFU and have obscenities screamed at them to recapture their privacy.  

Agreed, and I might even be one of those people.  But then I am not on a reality show, and despite the minor detail that no one would ever want to see me on a reality show, I'd never be on one for that reason.  Is it or is it not supposed to be a show about their real lives? I think Beth thinks it is, (including dirty laundry) and others (Lu) think it's supposed to be a show about the more fabu elements of their lives, (no dirty laundry).  That's maybe part of her beef with Lu as well. (If you ask Jel, the viewer, do you want all their dirty laundry aired, my answer is hell to the yes!)

Also agree that Bethenny is rude and crass a lot of the time.

We are two for two, Zoeysmom!

Edited September 20, 2016 by Jel

[Celia Rubenstein]

29 minutes ago, steelcitysister said:

 

Except that Lu on camera Lu has not done the first bolded ^^ and has done the second. Remember Morocco? Lu declared herself the hostess of the riad (with production's help, of course) and then spent much time bashing Alex, Ramona and, to a lesser degree, Sonja for various perceived infractions, eg, scolding them -- seriously, Countess? --for being late to dinner (even tho all 3 women claimed they hadn't been informed of the dine time.) Lu also mocked Alex's attire for the camel excursion; ironically, Alex is the only person who bothers to ask Lu if she's alright after the camel starts bucking. And once back in the US, Lu sneers at what she calls Alex's "Herman Munster shoes." Charming. 

Lu made it extremely clear she felt Alex was beneath her tho why I don't think has ever been explained. Perhaps your word choice of worthy is accurate -- until Alex left the show, Lu, IMO, felt Alex was unworthy. Not much etiquette to be proud of there, Countess.

Lu was fine with Alex when she first met her and they sat there (rudely) speaking French in front of Jill (who doesn't speak French and was visibly annoyed).  A few minutes later it all changed when she learned Alex actually had a job.  It was like someone let a big smelly fart at the table.  Lu tried to hide her contempt but, alas, the Countess could not. A job?  l'horreur!  The countess does not drink beer from a bottle and she definitely does not rub elbows with the "working class."  I'm surprised she didn't demand Alex call her "Mrs. DesLesseps." 

Lu's treatment of Alex (and the rest of her "guests") in Morocco showed that not only can money not buy you class, neither can marrying an older man with a title and living in Europe for a dozen years trying to convince yourself you are something you're not.  

She needs to leave the etiquette advice to Miss Manners and Emily Post.  She has no clue what the concept even means.

[Otherkate]

3 hours ago, jaync said:

For real. The notion that if you disagreed with a HW in the past, then you must never be on their side, is puzzling. As is the finger-wagging over what and how others post.

Pass the plate, please.

I think I commented on this somewhere so just wanted to respond to this specifically. I don't think it's finger wagging, at least my comments were not meant to be. A few people raised the question of why people who don't hate Bethenny don't post more and I believe that's why people (like me) then commented on the mood of the board in general. As soon as one of these Housewife boards go vehemently in the direction of one cast member, to the point where no matter what else happens in the episode, no matter what else people try to post about, every response is still somehow about that one cast member, the board becomes really uninteresting. I've given up on a few boards for that reason already and would hate to give up on this one. Someone asked, so I'm responding. I enjoy all these dumb broads for different reasons. Some of these shows have gotten me through trying and rough times. Just the other day I was remembering how RHONJ got me through the terror of early breastfeeding and the memory made me smile. I like watching these chicks, even if I would never behave like any of them and some of them make me angry sometimes. 

Short version: I'm really just in it for the LOLs. I have enough problems without making these women my problem. 

Edited September 20, 2016 by Otherkate

[Mya Stone]

Pretty sure we have enoughBS to discuss without dragging the conversation to Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt, and Jennifer Aniston. Leave those names out of this. There are plenty of other places to discuss that Pandora's Box. 

[ElDosEquis]

59 minutes ago, Mya Stone said:

Pretty sure we have enoughBS to discuss without dragging the conversation to Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt, and Jennifer Aniston. Leave those names out of this. There are plenty of other places to discuss that Pandora's Box. 

Who?

[NewDigs]

20 hours ago, Jel said:

Agreed, and I might even be one of those people.  But then I am not on a reality show, and despite the minor detail that no one would ever want to see me on a reality show, I'd never be on one for that reason. Is it or is it not supposed to be a show about their real lives? I think Beth thinks it is, (including dirty laundry)  and others (Lu) think it's supposed to be a show about the more fabu elements of their lives, (no dirty laundry).  That's maybe part of her beef with Lu as well. (If you ask Jel, the viewer, do you want all their dirty laundry aired, my answer is hell to the yes!)

Also agree that Bethenny is rude and crass a lot of the time.

We are two for two, Zoeysmom!

Bold mine.

If Bethy believed it was also about her own dirty laundry I think the dynamics would be better balanced. 

Edited September 21, 2016 by NewDigs
N/m

[HunterHunted]

I wouldn't even call that film that Bethenny did as porn or even softcore porn. It's like a crappy Lifetime movie where Bethenny has one terrible sex scene where she shows her tits. There are almost certainly a ton more legitimate actresses who have showed more than Bethenny did in that Hollywood Hills film. Plus Camille Grammer showed waaaaaaaaaaaaay more in her Skinemax films. Hell, there's more nudity in a random episode of the Sopranos or Game of Thrones. People who call that movie porn have either never seen porn, have a blanket dislike for nudity in films and television, or dislike Bethenny so irrationally that they don't realize that award winning films like Black Swan, Blue is the Warmest Color, and Monster's Ball are like 100% more graphic in their sex scenes than Bethenny's Hollywood Hills movie.

[breezy424]

Here's the article ZM was talking about:

http://www.inquisitr.com/3520689/andy-cohen-says-shannon-beador-and-dorinda-medley-revitalized-real-housewives/

I don't know if Beth has signed on for the next season or not but Andy, IMO, threw a little shade at Beth when he asked on WWHL after the reunion, part three, if anyone noticed that Beth didn't participate in the group hug.  And now he's extolling Shannon and Dorinda.  Is it about contract negotiating and feeling the need to take Beth down a notch or is it actually feeling the need to take Beth down a notch given so much negative feedback from viewers?  Given his past behavior in regard to Bethenny Frankel, one would assume he would highlight her return.  That didn't happen.  He also wasn't as much up her ass as he had been last reunion.  He's still up there but not as high as last season.

I do think Andy has loved the addition of Shannon and Dorinda.  He loves that Lady Gaga loves Dorinda.  That's HUGE in Andy Cohen's world. 

I also think that Beth was all sorts of pissed about the reunion, during and after.  She may have some other small potato projects going on that are nothing in comparison to RHNY that enable to showcase herself.  I do believe she'll be back but with Dorinda, as well as Lu, showing they're willing to go up against her, she's not going to run the show.  At least I hope.

Hopefully, they'll bring in someone of Beth's age or older who is happily married, secure and confident.  I know many want to bring in a younger housewife but given who is there now, they need someone who can go up Beth and her couch. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Extolling Shannon & Dorinda?  Has he done this before?  Well, he should be thanking Shannon a bazillion times over -- cuz without her, OC would be in a sinkhole.  She has saved that show & is responsible for keeping it going.  But Dorinda?  OK, she contributes some to NY, but it's not the same.  All ya had to do was watch one ep this season to know NY has become The Bethenny Show.  If ratings are up (as they are), I'd think he'd attribute that to Bethenny.  Why make note of Dorinda?  To give Bethenny a dig?  I don't know what to make of this or these reports of them fighting, which I was ready to NOT believe.

You know, if he wanted her to join in on the group hug, then why didn't he wave her over to join in?  Was he too afraid of her?  Did he think she'd go into a screaming rage-filled fit or throw something at him or slug him?  Why make a dig about it (weeks after it was filmed) on WWHL?  I find it hard to believe he didn't notice she didn't join in  on the hug.  She was sitting there with a just-smelled-poop look on her mug.  Hard not to notice that.

I may want the Frankelstein monster gone, but I realize that ain't gonna happen, no matter how many of these unreliable sources say they're feuding.  They both need each other & are both too smart to overlook that.  Still, maybe they're not so palsy-walsy anymore & the needling of each other might be quite real.  Could be fun to watch that.  See, it's only a matter of time with Bethenny.  She destroys ALL relationships in her life.  That's who she is.  Yeah, there is that gal in Miami who is her childhood friend, but didn't she say she rarely sees or speaks to her?  I'm waiting for her to point her venom & death rays at Carole.  Won't be pretty when that happens.  But it WILL happen.  Just a matter of time.

[ScoobieDoobs]

6 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Lu was fine with Alex when she first met her and they sat there (rudely) speaking French in front of Jill (who doesn't speak French and was visibly annoyed).  A few minutes later it all changed when she learned Alex actually had a job.  It was like someone let a big smelly fart at the table.  Lu tried to hide her contempt but, alas, the Countess could not. A job?  l'horreur!  The countess does not drink beer from a bottle and she definitely does not rub elbows with the "working class."  I'm surprised she didn't demand Alex call her "Mrs. DesLesseps." 

Lu's treatment of Alex (and the rest of her "guests") in Morocco showed that not only can money not buy you class, neither can marrying an older man with a title and living in Europe for a dozen years trying to convince yourself you are something you're not.  

She needs to leave the etiquette advice to Miss Manners and Emily Post.  She has no clue what the concept even means.

Thanks, you've given a good reminder of why I thought Lu was such a disgusting character in the past.  But given that Bethenny has been kinda palsy-walsy with Lu on-and-off over the years, I'm not buying her explanation of her rage-filled screaming jags at Lu.  I mean, that it was built up over 8 years of anger & resentment.  Is her rage at Lu over trivial crap & nonsense?  Or is it producer-driven scripted bullshit?  Usually, I don't even wanna know about producer intervention or what is or isn't scripted -- except when what I'm seeing doesn't make sense or add up.  I'm just smellin' something funky goin' on with Ms. Brutally Honest -- er, and it ain't brutally honest, that's for sure.

[breezy424]

Is it all about Bethenny Starting Over?  Production and the PTB are certainly trying to spin it this way.  I'm not quite that sure.  The ratings are up but they're not what they were in earlier seasons.  Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. 

IMO, TPTB made a huge mistake by dropping a number of 'housewives' and the huge gap between seasons as a result of that decision. 

[Yours Truly]

15 hours ago, steelcitysister said:

 

Except that Lu on camera Lu has not done the first bolded ^^ and has done the second. Remember Morocco? Lu declared herself the hostess of the riad (with production's help, of course) and then spent much time bashing Alex, Ramona and, to a lesser degree, Sonja for various perceived infractions, eg, scolding them -- seriously, Countess? --for being late to dinner (even tho all 3 women claimed they hadn't been informed of the dine time.) Lu also mocked Alex's attire for the camel excursion; ironically, Alex is the only person who bothers to ask Lu if she's alright after the camel starts bucking. And once back in the US, Lu sneers at what she calls Alex's "Herman Munster shoes." Charming. 

Lu made it extremely clear she felt Alex was beneath her tho why I don't think has ever been explained. Perhaps your word choice of worthy is accurate -- until Alex left the show, Lu, IMO, felt Alex was unworthy. Not much etiquette to be proud of there, Countess.

Oy vey.....

In numerous posts the concept of Lu NOT being perfect or a saint has been thoroughly addressed. When examples need to be dug up from umpteen seasons/years ago.... I think that pretty much proves a point.

Alex seems to be a go to and to be honest I personally thought Alex deserved it cause she was mishandling her attempt "at having a voice". She had her own version of contempt seeping through regarding other people's issues. I'm not a fan of people inserting themselves to the point where they are trying to scold someone on behalf of someone else. If you are going to take a stance then do it in the first person and not as a mouthpiece. That in itself is a bullshit condescending move. So Alex wasn't faultless in all of that either.

Also Lu was right to scold them because they were being rude. It's not like they showed up on time and Lu started berating them for using the wrong fork.

My head hurts.

15 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

The irony with the first season, is Andy and Bethenny to a certain degree would turn to "Countess" and ask her an etiquette question during the Reunion.  Usually it was about Ramona's behavior.  It was until the last question when Andy asked where they were going from there, and Luann answered she been offered a book deal on class with the Countess, Bethenny got surly.  I am going to say because Bethenny worked hard to get a book deal for her first book and it just seemed to fall into Luann's lap.

Personally, far worse to me than some of the guy stuff Bethenny berates Luann about is Bethenny getting on tables and dancing, doing handstands in nice restaurants.   She did at her birthday last season and again in the Turks & Caicos. having said that I don't think it eliminates her from discussing tardiness of Carole.

Many, many people consider it bad form to spill your guts about your private life and personal interactions.  I would say in the reality TV genre, little good has come from bashing one's own family. Granted a couple of the Atlanta women were literally abandoned by their mothers but their goal seemed like getting answers rather than just bashing. I think we have all been in a social situation where a conversation is monopolized with TMI regarding a divorce or health issue.  I just never realized people have to be told to STFU and have obscenities screamed at them to recapture their privacy.  

Didn't Beth or Ramona do that to Lu just last season after Beth spazzed the fuck out two minutes after her fist scene on the show? The back and fort between Ramona and Beth regarding brunch the next day? Went to Lu and asked if it was proper to XYZ?  It's funny how they liked to have fun with it in a semi serious way but then want to act like it's only Lu who shoves it down people's throats...

Edited September 21, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Yours Truly]

15 hours ago, Jel said:

Agreed, and I might even be one of those people.  But then I am not on a reality show, and despite the minor detail that no one would ever want to see me on a reality show, I'd never be on one for that reason.  Is it or is it not supposed to be a show about their real lives? I think Beth thinks it is, (including dirty laundry) and others (Lu) think it's supposed to be a show about the more fabu elements of their lives, (no dirty laundry).  That's maybe part of her beef with Lu as well. (If you ask Jel, the viewer, do you want all their dirty laundry aired, my answer is hell to the yes!)

Also agree that Bethenny is rude and crass a lot of the time.

We are two for two, Zoeysmom!

But that's the conundrum. Beth has a pissy disclaimer about not liking when the cast isn't spilling their guts out meanwhile she has hidden....... well it's been expressed ad nauseum what she's hidden. Who is she to demand that others NOT regulate what they put front and center while she's photoshopping very real and specific details of her life? Also, who decides what MUST be shown and what isn't? A reality show captures what they capture. If there are cast members that are stealth at manuvering around the cameras and keeping a good amount of stuff from slipping into filming <cough> LVP <cough> then good on them. And if production decides that what the character brings to the table isn't worth (insert state fruit here) then they can cut them loose. But if what IS captured on film works and is enough to keep viewers interested then who the fuck is anyone else to complain about what THEY want to see exposed about their cast mates life??? 

If they are bringing enough interest with what they offer up to the cameras then that's all that matters. Reality TV isn't supposed to be about digging around behind the scenes and then exposing each other. It's supposed to be about the interactions, the fun, business, maybe some squabbles and the day to day.  If shit creeps out then so be it but if shit stays where ever it stays then I think it's some serious bullshit when cast members want to be outraged that a co worker was allowed to keep some private shit private.

9 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I wouldn't even call that film that Bethenny did as porn or even softcore porn. It's like a crappy Lifetime movie where Bethenny has one terrible sex scene where she shows her tits. There are almost certainly a ton more legitimate actresses who have showed more than Bethenny did in that Hollywood Hills film. Plus Camille Grammer showed waaaaaaaaaaaaay more in her Skinemax films. Hell, there's more nudity in a random episode of the Sopranos or Game of Thrones. People who call that movie porn have either never seen porn, have a blanket dislike for nudity in films and television, or dislike Bethenny so irrationally that they don't realize that award winning films like Black Swan, Blue is the Warmest Color, and Monster's Ball are like 100% more graphic in their sex scenes than Bethenny's Hollywood Hills movie.

The other option is that people are reacting in the same overly ridiculous way Beth did when siting Lu's love life and overall sexual prowess.

AKA

Sarcasm, hyperbole. Pearl clutching. That sort of thing.

Much ado about nothing.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Yours Truly

[zoeysmom]

16 hours ago, Jel said:

Agreed, and I might even be one of those people.  But then I am not on a reality show, and despite the minor detail that no one would ever want to see me on a reality show, I'd never be on one for that reason.  Is it or is it not supposed to be a show about their real lives? I think Beth thinks it is, (including dirty laundry) and others (Lu) think it's supposed to be a show about the more fabu elements of their lives, (no dirty laundry).  That's maybe part of her beef with Lu as well. (If you ask Jel, the viewer, do you want all their dirty laundry aired, my answer is hell to the yes!)

Also agree that Bethenny is rude and crass a lot of the time.

We are two for two, Zoeysmom!

To me, everyone should be coming with their best look forward.  Bethenny is the branding queen, she of all people knows the negative is remembered long after the positive.

I always use to feel for Sonja, in the beginning it was all about her lovely UES townhouse and she had parties and everyone attended and then be it production, or whomever felt the need to show the frayed rugs and slightly shabby curtains and of course Bravo's favorite dog crap in the back yard. I do think it is on Sonja if she chooses not to run the heat or air conditioning when she has guests-it can't possibly be that expensive for a few hours.  I think Sonja became so self conscious that by last season she did not want Heather et al, in her house to film.  I blame production for failure to get the limo on time and creating drama where none need be created, because she was tired of not only have her scabs shown but having them picked and oozing her blood.  Bethenny is still hammering the "Grey Gardens" aspect when it comes to Sonja and her abode and I do believe Sonja went a long ways in showing us the lovely upstairs apartment where Luann was given and her dining room.  Her feelings were hurt and she didn't want the ugly showing. Luann was gracious about her accommodations.

What it comes down to more than, "Would you want to know?" is "Would you want to be the person picking the scabs and humiliating someone else for entertainment purposes?".  I have always thought it entirely appropriate to call out Ramona for her repeated and incredible rudeness, Luann for her not listening, Sonja for her delusions of her business, Heather and Josh for their name dropping but it has now become set up the pins of these ladies lives and roll this monster bowling ball down the lane to knock someone over.  Even that doesn't seem to enough now it is not only knocking down but drawing and quartering them and then a brief off season to see if the pieces can be put back together.

[Yours Truly]

2 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

To me, everyone should be coming with their best look forward.  Bethenny is the branding queen, she of all people knows the negative is remembered long after the positive.

I always use to feel for Sonja, in the beginning it was all about her lovely UES townhouse and she had parties and everyone attended and then be it production, or whomever felt the need to show the frayed rugs and slightly shabby curtains and of course Bravo's favorite dog crap in the back yard. I do think it is on Sonja if she chooses not to run the heat or air conditioning when she has guests-it can't possibly be that expensive for a few hours.  I think Sonja became so self conscious that by last season she did not want Heather et al, in her house to film.  I blame production for failure to get the limo on time and creating drama where none need be created, because she was tired of not only have her scabs shown but having them picked and oozing her blood.  Bethenny is still hammering the "Grey Gardens" aspect when it comes to Sonja and her abode and I do believe Sonja went a long ways in showing us the lovely upstairs apartment where Luann was given and her dining room.  Her feelings were hurt and she didn't want the ugly showing. Luann was gracious about her accommodations.

What it comes down to more than, "Would you want to know?" is "Would you want to be the person picking the scabs and humiliating someone else for entertainment purposes?".  I have always thought it entirely appropriate to call out Ramona for her repeated and incredible rudeness, Luann for her not listening, Sonja for her delusions of her business, Heather and Josh for their name dropping but it has now become set up the pins of these ladies lives and roll this monster bowling ball down the lane to knock someone over.  Even that doesn't seem to enough now it is not only knocking down but drawing and quartering them and then a brief off season to see if the pieces can be put back together.

Yeah, I don't get the redefinition of "Reality TV".  At first there was this whole if you got skeletons don't go on reality tv cause it's bound to come out. Um ok. I could see that. Fine. But now it's like "Don't plan on coming on reality TV unless you DEFINITELY show us where the bodies are buried" Like huh, what? First it was more about "Dum Dum,  you stupid for taking the chance and now all you dirty laundry has been dumped in front of the cameras. You took the risk and it didn't turn out in your favor <shrug>". Now it's more like some huge outrage that people aren't purposely delivering that shit on a fucking platter as some sort of requirement. Um, no that wasn't the idea. Going on the show is taking a risk on certain aspects coming out, it's not some definite contract that says you HAVE TO bring all of your deep dark secrets to light and more importantly to your filming day... ANDDDD the disclaimer wasn't: "if ya don't not only will there be hell to pay but we're gonna fucking dig it up and plaster it all over the show anyway...." I don't believe that was a part of what these women signed up for.

But I guess the cast is supposed to be OK with this bait and switch set up?

Unbelievable.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Yours Truly

[WireWrap]

28 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Yeah, I don't get the redefinition of "Reality TV".  At first there was this whole if you got skeletons don't go on reality tv cause it's bound to come out. Um ok. I could see that. Fine. But now it's like "Don't plan on coming on reality TV unless you DEFINITELY show us where the bodies are buried" Like huh, what? First it was more about "Dum Dum,  you stupid for taking the chance and now all you dirty laundry has been dumped in front of the cameras. You took the risk and it didn't turn out in your favor <shrug>". Now it's more like some huge outrage that people aren't purposely delivering that shit on a fucking platter as some sort of requirement. Um, no that wasn't the idea. Going on the show is taking a risk on certain aspects coming out, it's not some definite contract that says you HAVE TO bring all of your deep dark secrets to light and more importantly to your filming day... ANDDDD the disclaimer wasn't: "if ya don't not only will there be hell to pay but we're gonna fucking dig it up and plaster it all over the show anyway...." I don't believe that was a part of what these women signed up for.

But I guess the cast is supposed to be OK with this bait and switch set up?

Unbelievable.

This seems to only apply to some but not all the HWs. I guess it depends if you are in Bethenny's good graces or not and if your not be prepared to have your life turned inside out for her pleasure. Oh, but never forget, these rules do not apply to her at all, no matter what she says/does/reveals about yours.

Hmmmm, then again, maybe this ^^^^ is why Bethenny is saying she may not return, she is afraid that the others are going to start fighting fire with fire. In other words, revealing all of her dirty laundry on camera for all to see like she has done to some of them.

[jinjer]

I have fallen out of like with Bethenny into almost total disgust, but I want to encourage those that still like her to keep posting. It keeps the board lively and makes me rethink some of my opinions and reminds me at times why I liked her to begin with.  But I have to be mindful when I post not to criticize the other posters who I disagree with. It's always ok to disagree but never ok to make it personal to the poster. I dislike the way Bethenny is acting, not any of you posters, so if I crossed that line, I apologize.

[jaync]

Quote

I don't think it's finger wagging, at least my comments were not meant to be. A few people raised the question of why people who don't hate Bethenny don't post more and I believe that's why people (like me) then commented on the mood of the board in general.

But why the need to take the temperature of the board in the first place? And, call it what you want, but referring to fellow posters (not that you did) as "haters", "relentless", and "having too much time on their hands" is still personally attacking them for their views, and how they choose to express them.

Quote

Yeah, there is that gal in Miami who is her childhood friend, but didn't she say she rarely sees or speaks to her? 

Is that the one Bethany met up with last season, who looked like she was in disguise? Even that scene seemed more like a session to fluff Bethany and take potshots at her ex, as opposed to it being an organic meeting between two old friends.

[WireWrap]

11 minutes ago, jaync said:

 

Is that the one Bethany met up with last season, who looked like she was in disguise? Even that scene seemed more like a session to fluff Bethany and take potshots at her ex, as opposed to it being an organic meeting between two old friends.

No, they are 2 different women but I do agree, they were used to try and make Bethenny sympathetic/less hard/cold. Last season it was about her meeting her ex stepfather to heal old wounds (that she did nothing more about) and this season it was to make it look like she had no other choice except to tell Luann about Tom's wandering lips/tongue. LOL

[SCS]

5 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

Oy vey.....

In numerous posts the concept of Lu NOT being perfect or a saint has been thoroughly addressed. When examples need to be dug up from umpteen seasons/years ago.... I think that pretty much proves a point.

 

Sainthood, in many cases, is highly overrated. And digging up examples from umpteen seasons ago clearly demonstrates that Lu was kind of, I don't know, a nasty piece of work in those umpteen seasons past. As of yet, she really hasn't shown anything that suggests said nastiness was an aberration, IMO.

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I'm not a fan of people inserting themselves to the point where they are trying to scold someone on behalf of someone else.

 

Isn't that what this and every other HWs franchise is about to a large degree  -- everyone being in everyone else's business? 

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Also Lu was right to scold them because they were being rude. It's not like they showed up on time and Lu started berating them for using the wrong fork.

 

But was Lu right? Alex, Ramona and Sonja all said they hadn't been informed of the start time for dinner. It's not like they were heading off to see a sold-out Broadway show and every minute was precious.  The look on Lu's face when Alex arrived -- it was like a headmistress ready to admonish a wayward student caught smoking in the academy garret. . It was not a flattering look. It -- dare I say it -- made Lu look old. Grim and old. 

 

Quote

My head hurts.

I hate it when that happens..

 

[WireWrap]

5 minutes ago, steelcitysister said:

Sainthood, in many cases, is highly overrated. And digging up examples from umpteen seasons ago clearly demonstrates that Lu was kind of, I don't know, a nasty piece of work in those umpteen seasons past. As of yet, she really hasn't shown anything that suggests said nastiness was an aberration, IMO.

 

 

Except that Bethenny was singing Luann's praises last season, the entire season including at the reunion! Now all of a sudden, Luann is "persona non grata" which make no sense unless......Bethenny just used Luann to get Heather last season and/or she hates Luann (and Sonja) tried to get a bigger paycheck this season. Either way, Bethenny's actions toward Luann come off as fake, bizarre and out of the blue IMO.

[SCS]

3 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Except that Bethenny was singing Luann's praises last season, the entire season including at the reunion! Now all of a sudden, Luann is "persona non grata" which make no sense unless......Bethenny just used Luann to get Heather last season and/or she hates Luann (and Sonja) tried to get a bigger paycheck this season. Either way, Bethenny's actions toward Luann come off as fake, bizarre and out of the blue IMO.

 

 

Whereas Lu's all-encompassing bitchitude in Morocco -- which is what my post you quoted was referencing -- was, I believe, fake genuine, bizarre not at all out of character and out of the blue  business as usual for NY's tiresome bought-'n-paid-for nobility.

[Ki-in]

I think some of Bethenny's hate came via Carole, I think she put her up to tearing into Luann because we all know Carole is weak, insipid , cowardly follower who can only be mean when she's at her keyboard, hiding being Bethenny or Heather. She never would have dared to call Luann a bitch to her face like she did at the reunion. Oh, but she is tough when she's on the stairs with a one legged woman who may have been batshit crazy but didn't deserve to be physically attacked in her own home especially when there is a very good possibility everything she was saying was true.  She is a pathetic waste.

[Yours Truly]

25 minutes ago, steelcitysister said:

Sainthood, in many cases, is highly overrated. And digging up examples from umpteen seasons ago clearly demonstrates that Lu was kind of, I don't know, a nasty piece of work in those umpteen seasons past. As of yet, she really hasn't shown anything that suggests said nastiness was an aberration, IMO.

Isn't that what this and every other HWs franchise is about to a large degree  -- everyone being in everyone else's business? 

 

But was Lu right? Alex, Ramona and Sonja all said they hadn't been informed of the start time for dinner. It's not like they were heading off to see a sold-out Broadway show and every minute was precious.  The look on Lu's face when Alex arrived -- it was like a headmistress ready to admonish a wayward student caught smoking in the academy garret. . It was not a flattering look. It -- dare I say it -- made Lu look old. Grim and old. 

 

I hate it when that happens..

 

It shows that Lu had conflicts with people.

Big whoop.

It shows that she too had her own missteps.

Big whoop.

Doesn't mean that her writing an etiquette book and then being a down low ho is somehow a measuring stick about the price of tea in China.

Beth likes to throw around that Lu wrote an etiquette but broke/breaks some of her own rules.

The book was meant as a reference using her own experiences as a guide. Not an auto-biography.

It's a silly go to that Beth likes to refer to.

Siting all of the times Lu was less than pleasant with another housewife (shocking that not everyone got along ALL of the time BTW) as an example of why Beth uses "the irony?" of Lu's authoring an etiquette book as a way to shame her however which way she chooses, to me amounts to...

well, the price of tea in China.

That's all.

[izabella]

Maybe if anyone had ever read Bethy's books, they'd find she also is not living up to what she says in the books.  But no one has read them so...lol.

[SCS]

14 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

It shows that Lu had conflicts with people.

 

It does that.

 

Quote

It shows that she too had her own missteps.

 

She did that.

 

Quote

 

Doesn't mean that her writing an etiquette book and then being a down low ho is somehow a measuring stick about the price of tea in China.

Beth likes to throw around that Lu wrote an etiquette but broke/breaks some of her own rules.

The book was meant as a reference using her own experiences as a guide. Not an auto-biography.

It's a silly go to that Beth likes to refer to.

Siting all of the times Lu was less than pleasant with another housewife (shocking that not everyone got along ALL of the time BTW) as an example of why Beth uses "the irony?" of Lu's authoring an etiquette book as a way to shame her however which way she chooses, to me amounts to...

well, the price of tea in China.

 

 

Well, I never mentioned Beth or the etiquette book or Lu being a down low ho or Chinese tea so I cannot respond. Pondering . . . 

[quaintirene]

22 hours ago, Jel said:

 Is it or is it not supposed to be a show about their real lives? I think Beth thinks it is, (including dirty laundry) and others (Lu) think it's supposed to be a show about the more fabu elements of their lives, (no dirty laundry).  That's maybe part of her beef with Lu as well. (If you ask Jel, the viewer, do you want all their dirty laundry aired, my answer is hell to the yes!)

Also agree that Bethenny is rude and crass a lot of the time.

 

Bingo!  I agree with everything you say!  I do think that LuAnn wants her interaction with the others limited to 'look at my fabulous ring!!!'.  And Bethenny is 'keeping it real'.  I don't think Bethenny likes LuAnn much and I suspect the feeling is mutual.  But LuAnn's somewhat murky history makes it difficult for her to keep the high ground and Bethenny is relentlessly tugging her back down anyway.  Whatever.  And I agree.  Dirty Laundry rules!