S04.E09: In Sickness and In Health

[Drogo]

The three couples who met and married as strangers continue to navigate married life. Lillian tries to give Tom a memorable birthday; Derek and Heather reflect on their journey so far; Nick feels Sonia pushes him too far.

[Drogo]

This is an episode thread for discussing things that happened in this episode.  Many posters in the episode threads prefer to remain unspoiled re: social media posts, Unfiltered, Confessions, etc.   This is not a lot to ask, so please follow the rules.  

If you want to post any reference to something you heard outside of the actual episode, please take it to the appropriate thread.  

[WichitaStateShock]

Ugh can we stop focusing on Heather and Derek. 30 minutes in and its been half about them.

[Enero]

I think so far this is probably the worst episode of the season. The Derek/Heather scenes are a waste of air time and Sonia/Nick I'm just ready for the band aid to come off already. No matter what they say, they're not attracted to each other. Sonia is at least still trying to fake the funk by attempting to connect with the dogs but Nick is not even bothering to try anymore.  He's now even struggling to lie in his THs about how he wants the relationship to work. There is no marriage here. 

More proof that Nick is gay -"I've never lived with a significant other." LOL. Kind of a weird the way he stated that. I know everyone is different but it's been my experience when people use the word "significant other" with regards to a personal romantic relationship, they are referring to a same sex relationship.

Dr. P is full of sh*t. Why again does Heather need to write Derek a letter of appreciation for the good/nice times? The marriage was over by day two.  That's going to be a dam short letter. Also, did anyone else think that Derek's below the belt insults were way more cruel than the "alcoholic" comments that were included on the show? Heather seemed genuinely hurt when talking about his insults. On a shallow note, she looked really pretty in her interview with Dr. P.

Derek still wearing his wedding ring. <eye roll> He's really playing up this whole scorned "lover" thing. :\

Nick's dogs are cute but annoying, always jumping up on people, all over the bed and barking. Like someone said, they're just not well behaved at all.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Enero

[WichitaStateShock]

For F's sake we've had 3 heather derek segments to lily and what his face one segment. Wtf

[Straycat80]

WHY are they still focusing on Heather and Derek? He is still wearing his wedding ring because he's pretending to be hurt and embarrassed how this will look to his friends and family. And hey Derek's Mom watch the show and see how this wasn't all Heathers fault, he was at fault too. These letters to each other might be one whole paragraph tops! Stupid

[PityFree]

Letters? Gawd, Dr. Pepper, you are ridiculous. Way to make things drag out for Heather and Derrick. They said goodbye last time they saw each other. They had closure. They don't need more of it. THEY AREN'T GOING TO GET BACK TOGETHER! 

Face it Dr. P. You and the other experts shouldn't be trusted to pair up socks out of the dryer much less people.

[Paddywagon]

They need to add some fitting background music to Heather and Derek's THs.  Something that reflects the mood.  Like some Taylor Swift "We are never ever ever getting back together".

[Enero]

When Derek told his mom that Heather wanted a divorce, he looked like he was about to laugh. The whole scene came off as one of the most fake scenes I've ever seen on this show. 

Wow. Nick's comments about how he thought he was going to get into a MARRIAGE and not have to work, IMHO shows his naivety, immaturity and inexperience. You have to WORK at any relationship, whether that's marriage or with a boyfriend/girlfriend, whether you're matched by an expert or your own hand. Whether you're perfect for each other or not. Relationships take WORK.

[VioletNevermind]

Man.  I didn't think I could dislike Nick any more than I did last week.  What a whiny little bitch.  I don't care what Sonia did at any point along the way, she does not deserve the public ridicule that was just heaped upon her.  

Wow. 

[Empress1]

There was no point to those damn letters except as filler to run out Heather and Derek's filming clock. And everything about Heather’s body language says she’s completely over the whole experience and can’t wait until she’s no longer contractually obligated to talk about it.

Tom and Lily are cute. I’m liking Tom more. It was very sweet of Lily to put all that into motion for Tom’s birthday, and his brother (is there a big age difference between him and Tom? He looks a lot older) seems like a nice guy.

Nick's dogs in the bed first thing in the morning were annoying ME, and I’m not afraid of dogs. Stepping all over their faces and shit. Like Tara said in a previous recap, why isn’t anyone on Sonia’s side about these dogs? Even the trainer looked at her like, “Hmph, you’re just not trying,” when Sonia was talking about what she’d done with the dogs, and I was sitting there like, “But she invited you over to help her! She IS trying!” And the trainer could have mentioned some things Nick could do to get them to mind their manners. They’ve clearly had the run of the house for as long as he’s had them.

I was hopeful for Nick and Sonia initially because it did seem like the approach to build a friendship was a good one and that they were on the right path, but I was getting really mad on Sonia’s behalf watching her try to have a dinnertime conversation and seeing him not even respond to her– that’s just rude (assuming that dinner wasn’t edited). She was asking him questions about the dogs and he didn't respond to that either. Everyone says she’s not a good communicator and that’s pretty obvious, but damn, at least she’s TALKING. Grown folks don’t give the silent treatment. If he was busy, he could have said “Hey, gotta get this done, give me 15 minutes” or whatever.

Nick: “I think for me, alcohol always loosens the situation.” Me: “Oh no.” He was clearly drunk, and I hope he's not going to use that as an excuse later. And if he really thought he could enter into a marriage to a stranger and not have to work at it, he is painfully naive. (Sonia's "Boy, please" look after he said that was everything.) All relationships take work. I work at being a good coworker, friend, sister, daughter, and romantic partner. That's just life.

That fight was ugly. I felt so bad for her sitting there listening to Nick talk shit about her. Stay gone, Sonia! Cut your losses. Like I've said, I am not interested in being with anyone that I have to convince of my worth and attractiveness, and neither should she.

Spoiler

And it looks like this fight happened after they slept together (based on the preview)? Lord, what a mess.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Empress1
Added spoiler tag - better safe than sorry

[Straycat80]

Oh wow, they wanted Nick to 'open up' and boy did he ever! What a tool! Poor Sonia didn't deserve to be humiliated like that! He is not attracted to her, there, he said it, move on, bye! But of course the experts will try to get them to work it out so they aren't embarrassed that two of three couples they paired up tanked. 

I think Nick was being pushed to hard, he was drinking, Sonia and the producers were nagging at him to communicate and he snapped. Not making an excuse for him but what did he think was going to happen going on a show like this? 

I'm glad Tom and Lily seem to be making it work. 

[Marsupial]

Damn. Good for Sonia. Nick is a prime grade asshole. Not because he isn't attracted to Sonia, that's not something he can help. But his immature, dishonest way of expressing it is something he can help. And he chose not to.

I agree that Sonia has difficulty communicating what she wants and feels. I guess I empathize because she is EXACTLY how I was in relationships for many, many years -- unable to be forthright and assertive, trying very hard to communicate and using a lot of self-defensive, self-protective mechanisms, oh I see it al in her. And I agree that for those of us who have that problem, it's a big problem and it's up to us to fix it.

That said, we all communicate better when we're with someone who is patient and willing to help draw us out. Nick is impatient and he doesn't give a flying rat's ass about Sonia or, apparently, anyone but himself. HE is equally bad a communicator, at least Sonia was trying. He never put forth the slightest effort. Nick, you're an asshole.

I am SO GLAD Sonia walked out. Good for her. She may be soft and tremulous but she clearly has a lot of self-respect.

Meanwhile, Lily and Tom demonstrated the "work" that you do in a relationship to make it work. It's not drudgery, as Nick seems to believe. It's going out of your way to do nice things for your partner, just because you're not selfish and you occasionally think about what will make the other person happy. And the person receiving that attention shows gratitude and appreciation for what you do, and expresses it. That's the "work" you do, Nick. You act like a caring adult, not a selfish child.

Derek's mom: "She threw it all away!" LOL.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Marsupial
clarification

[nexxie]

Ha! Love how Sonia spoke to the dogs as she walked out the door!

[HZAnita]

1 minute ago, nexxie said:

Ha! Love how Sonia spoke to the dogs as she walked out the door!

Yeah! lol  And one of the dogs looked really sad to see her go, the way it tried to follow her out of the door.  I'm sure it was thinking, "Please don't leave me with the cold-hearted ear-puller, Mommy!"  

This is me after hearing Sonia's confession in the preview:

[Vinyasa]

FYI-I don't believe for one second Sonia is talking about Nick when she said "we had sex" to Pastor Cal. That was probably about a previous relationship. Don't lead us on again!

So Nick wants the experts to match him up and he never needs to put forth an ounce of effort. Ok then.

Sonia, keep on walking and go out for some drinks with Heather. There is a lot to laugh about! Really there is.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Vinyasa

[Marsupial]

Good point. Or maybe she's talking about...someone else on the show? Derek? LOL it sounds more believable than her and Nick getting it on.

[Lion18]

39 minutes ago, Enero said:

When Derek told his mom that Heather wanted a divorce, he looked like he was about to laugh. The whole scene came off as one of the most fake scenes I've ever seen on this show. 

Wow. Nick's comments about how he thought he was going to get into a MARRIAGE and not have to work, IMHO shows his naivety, immaturity and inexperience. You have to WORK at any relationship, whether that's marriage or with a boyfriend/girlfriend, whether you're matched by an expert or your own hand. Whether you're perfect for each other or not. Relationships take WORK.

Yes!  Even when there is intense attraction there is still work

he said he was attracted to her and then not. What's that?

[zxy556575]

Aw, Nick. If you can hang in there a while, this could be your bride of the future.

She's synthetic, so no effort required. Maybe a new hard drive every so often.

Edited September 21, 2016 by lordonia

[wovenloaf]

Yeah Nick's a clown. Not because he's not attracted to her or doesn't like her or doesn't want to have awkward emotional conversations every day - I understand all that. But that "marriage should require zero effort, ever!" rubbish, followed by that pointless temper tantrum. What a doofus. Get a grip. Does he plan on just calling it quits every time he gets in a mild disagreement with a significant other? No wonder he needs three "experts" to find a mate. And if half that crappy yellow cocktail makes him that much more of an asshole, there's another thing he ought to get a grip on.

In theory I understand that being told to "open up" every five seconds would be irritating, but dude is a robot with a shitty personality who volunteered to marry a stranger, so he gets no sympathy from me on that front. 

His refusal to stop those dogs from stomping all over her really is ridiculous too. I love dogs, but i don't like them crawling on me in bed as soon as I wake up, or all hyper around my face. Ugh. That would piss me off - I don't know how someone who is afraid of them could put up with it at all.

[WichitaStateShock]

That preview has me all messed up. 

No longer team Nick.

I actually adore Lily and Tom even if its kind of fake-ish or overdone for the cameras. 

Next week im going to mute derek and Heather's segments. I just cant with them.

[potatochips]

I doubt Sonia and Nick had sex but either way, she was smart to walk out the door. She was trying very hard to make it work. He was just being mean and hurtful. A real jerk. I hope she has the sense to stay far away from him. Aside from that, I can't stand watching him with those licking, s****** dogs.

[Enero]

20 minutes ago, Vinyasa said:

FYI-I don't believe for one second Sonia is talking about Nick when she said "we had sex" to Pastor Cal. That was probably about a previous relationship. Don't lead us on again!

 

No. I think they had sex. The producers just duped the viewers like they always do by creating the illusion that they'd not had sex by replaying their THs about how they hadn't had sex yet and wanted to get intimate.

They've done the same thing with Nick stating how "shy" he is and Sonia stating how much she fears dogs. It's all an illusion to perpetuate the narrative the producers have created for Sonia and Nick.

[BunnySlippers]

1 hour ago, Enero said:

Nick's dogs are cute but annoying, always jumping up on people, all over the bed and barking. Like someone said, they're just not well behaved at all.

I agree. I like dogs, but this would annoy me as well. What I don't understand, though, is this: where had the dogs been until they suddenly appeared and jumped on the bed in the morning? If they were free to roam, how come they stayed away and suddenly they decided to get onto the bed? I just doubt they were politely staying away until it was time to get up. I'm thinking the producer let them in for some drama.

47 minutes ago, Enero said:

When Derek told his mom that Heather wanted a divorce, he looked like he was about to laugh. The whole scene came off as one of the most fake scenes I've ever seen on this show. 

Wow. Nick's comments about how he thought he was going to get into a MARRIAGE and not have to work, IMHO shows his naivety, immaturity and inexperience. You have to WORK at any relationship, whether that's marriage or with a boyfriend/girlfriend, whether you're matched by an expert or your own hand. Whether you're perfect for each other or not. Relationships take WORK.

Derek seems to be most concerned about what everybody is going to think about his marriage being over so quickly. That's his biggest concern about the whole thing. I just find that a little strange. I think this kind of personality might be one reason why he kept going off on Heather: because he doesn't like to be challenged or to look bad in front of others. I think he's ultra sensitive to criticism and any hint of a slight against him, and that's why he kept attacking her about every little thing.

Yes, Nick is naive and immature, but also, lazy. He doesn't want to put any effort in. He expected the "experts" to do all the work for him. I don't know what world he lives in.

In a way, I understand a little better now why he said in the beginning that he found Sonia attractive and now suddenly he didn't. Apparently, he was more upset about those two times when Sonia had withdrawn after one of his weird statements than he'd let on. But that's on him! Did he communicate to her that he found those instances hurtful and negative? No, he didn't. He kept it bottled up until he exploded.

 

35 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Nick's dogs in the bed first thing in the morning were annoying ME, and I’m not afraid of dogs. Stepping all over their faces and shit. Like Tara said in a previous recap, why isn’t anyone on Sonia’s side about these dogs? Even the trainer looked at her like, “Hmph, you’re just not trying,” when Sonia was talking about what she’d done with the dogs, and I was sitting there like, “But she invited you over to help her! She IS trying!” And the trainer could have mentioned some things Nick could do to get them to mind their manners. They’ve clearly had the run of the house for as long as he’s had them.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

And it looks like this fight happened after they slept together (based on the preview)? Lord, what a mess.

I agree! It's a huge thing that she's been making all that effort with the dogs, and nobody seems to appreciate it. And yes, the dog trainer should have also trained Nick to set some boundaries for the dogs. But no, it was all about Sonia.

Just like it's always only about Heather and why she wanted a divorce, while poor Derek tried so hard! Why don't they ever ask Derek what his part was in that whole fiasco?

 

17 minutes ago, Vinyasa said:

FYI-I don't believe for one second Sonia is talking about Nick when she said "we had sex" to Pastor Cal. That was probably about a previous relationship. Don't lead us on again!

Huh, that's an interesting idea! Now I wonder... Too bad we'll have to wait (at least) a week to find out!

[Paddywagon]

Here's how I believe Nick REALLY thinks and interprets what Sonia says:

Sonia:  let's go to bed and do some heavy petting.
Nick interprets as:  Let's vigorously pet the dogs.  On the bed.

Sonia:  how would you rate our marriage on a scale of 1-10?
Nick thinks:  t-shirt sales are up since the show started so I'd give it an 8.

Sonia:  can you open up to me more?
Nick thinks:  this has nothing to do with t-shirts so, no.

Sonia:  Do you think I'm attractive?
Nick thinks:  mom told me it's a good idea to say yes, but no.

Sonia:  I like you.
Nick interprets as:  omg-iloveyou-iloveyou-and-i-want-to-make-10-babies-with-you-starting-now!!!!

Sonia:  you're in the doghouse.
Nick interprets as:  it's ok with Sonia if I go outside and play with the dogs.

So I think if Sonia slowed her roll and learned to communicate more effectively they might have a chance at working things out:

Sonia:  woof woof, woof woof woof
Nick:  got it babe!

To the MAFS experts, there ya go.  Call me anytime you need my expert help.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Paddywagon

[crgirl412]

There is something really wrong with Nick- besides the drunkenness.  There is more going on there than he is admitting- especially to himself.  Good for Sonia for leaving!!!

[Empress1]

18 minutes ago, Lion18 said:

Yes!  Even when there is intense attraction there is still work

he said he was attracted to her and then not. What's that?

People can definitely become less (or more) attractive to you as you get to know them. I can think of a number of men I've known that I was very attracted to initially and then I got to know them and thought "Yikes, never mind," sometimes in a very short window of time (e.g. a bad date). Whatever aspects of their personality that I objected to tainted their physical attractiveness for me.

Conversely, one of my best friends is married to a man who is unattractive, by any standard of conventional beauty. (My friend is attractive. They look mismatched enough that people give them looks on the street. And no, he isn't wealthy.) She wasn't interested in him at all at first but then they became friends and the friendship grew, and now they've been married for six years. She knows that he's objectively unattractive, but she is attracted TO him because of who he is as a person.

If Nick was initially attracted to Sonia and then her walking away from confrontation (the excuse he gave) was enough to turn him off, that's fine. He's within his rights. But it appears that he didn't tell her the extent to which that bothered him. That's on him. And he needs to find a way to express his feelings without being drunk and/or sounding like a petulant teenager. 

[Snarklepuss]

1 hour ago, Enero said:

Wow. Nick's comments about how he thought he was going to get into a MARRIAGE and not have to work, IMHO shows his naivety, immaturity and inexperience. You have to WORK at any relationship, whether that's marriage or with a boyfriend/girlfriend, whether you're matched by an expert or your own hand. Whether you're perfect for each other or not. Relationships take WORK.

I generally agree with you (I wish I could double like your prior post) but I think he was referring to basic attraction there, not just working at the relationship in general.  His problem is that he has tried to find her attractive but is not succeeding.  In that department I would agree that after 4 weeks if a basic physical attraction doesn't develop, there's not much you can do to force it to happen.  And feeling like the experts and Sonia are trying to force it out of you is probably a sure way to make sure it DOESN'T happen.  There are too many factors jinxing the natural evolution of his feelings here.  Even if there were a chance that his feelings might develop, when you feel like you're living in a fishbowl and under a microscope they're bound to vanish.   Not that I'm defending him, because I think he is very immature, naive and lacks experience.  Plus I don't think he's ready for a true commitment to anyone.  And I agree about him constantly referring to partners in a genderless sense as being more potential proof of gay-ness.  His not ever living with a partner and perhaps never having a true LTR tells me he has no clue how to work at making a relationship work even if he did have an attraction for Sonia.  Instead of owning up to that he makes Sonia feel to blame for it.  Asshole.  Mr. Snarkle is ballistic about him and he NEVER gets that way about anyone, especially the MEN!

 

34 minutes ago, Enero said:

No. I think they had sex. The producers just duped the viewers like they always do by creating the illusion that they'd not had sex by replaying their THs about how they hadn't had sex yet and wanted to get intimate.

They've done the same thing with Nick stating how "shy" he is and Sonia stating how much she fears dogs. It's all an illusion to perpetuate the narrative the producers have created for Sonia and Nick.

I agree, I'm left wondering just how representative of the truth anything we have seen this season (or any other) is.  If we have been totally duped by the show into thinking they haven't had sex and that Nick isn't into Sonia, and then at the very end of the season find out they're really in love or something I will be pissed off.  While we all know the editing monkeys have poetic license, going to this kind of degree to mess with the audience's heads is over the line IMO.  Based on past seasons I can't remember ever being duped about how intimate (or non-intimate) a couple has been.  If this is what they now are resorting to to increase the drama, just fuck this show already.  Plus, how does any of what we have seen add up to that they've had sex?  A guy who says flat out that he isn't even attracted to her and then suddenly we find out they've had sex?  WTF?  If the narrative can't even be consistent with itself, like I said before, just fuck this show already.

[Evil Queen]

5 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

If Nick was initially attracted to Sonia and then her walking away from confrontation (the excuse he gave) was enough to turn him off, that's fine. He's within his rights. But it appears that he didn't tell her the extent to which that bothered him. That's on him. And he needs to find a way to express his feelings without being drunk and/or sounding like a petulant teenager. 

I actually don't think he was ever attracted to her. He never once seemed to "show" it. What I mean by that is there never looked to be like there was something there at all and the tone in his voice when he would claim it didn't convince me he was telling the truth at all. I think it was all an act on his part and never once was he into her. Before I continue it hasn't aired in my part of the U.S. yet so I read all the comments as the time goes on....with that if he was using the excuse of her walking away that is pretty weak on his part considering he was saying crap in those moments that weren't even things being talked about or asked. I would have walked away in her position too so I could gather myself instead of saying something that would have come out sounding bad. He was doing things like that on purpose IMO. As someone else had mentioned in another thread he seems to take pleasure in those comments and has a smirk on his face during most those times. I wouldn't be surprised if he was doing these things to make sure the marriage failed (but that he also got that free advertising for his 8's shirts) and hoping she would get suckered into it and act out back so he could give better reasons than her walking away bs. 

[ChristmasJones]

Sonia surprised me with the comment she made to his dogs as she was leaving. But in a good way!!! #teamsonia

[Snarklepuss]

22 minutes ago, BunnySlippers said:

Just like it's always only about Heather and why she wanted a divorce, while poor Derek tried so hard! Why don't they ever ask Derek what his part was in that whole fiasco?

I know, don't get me started, Mr. Snarkle was practically cursing at the TV when Dr. Pepper was so sympathetic to Derek and said he did his best or something to that effect.  WTF?  I'm now getting the feeling that he really went OFF on Heather to a degree that the show didn't even allow us to see.  Name calling, insults, just WOW.  And then he gets off scot-free like he did absolutely nothing wrong and then is allowed to make it look like Heather was the one who didn't want to enter into the process.  Well, after being totally insulted at a time when a partner should be trying to make things work with you and give you a good impression who can blame her??  Watching that argument over again it was clear that she was bringing up a concern like she wanted to talk it out, not end in a name calling scene, which is what Derek turned it into.  She gave him the opportunity to work with her at that point as far as I can tell but he just ended up tearing his shirt with her.  Another insecure asshole.  I got the feeling when he met with his mother that the wheels in her head were turning like she's not really surprised.  She loves her son and supports him but I think she has seen him screw up a potentially good thing before.

[Gem 10]

Marriage is hard enough and lots of work when you love someone.  I can't imagine marriage at first sight.  Those "experts" show me nothing.  All the bloggers on this site could give better advice from what I read.  Tonight was a disaster.  

[Empress1]

1 minute ago, Evil Queen said:

I actually don't think he was ever attracted to her. He never once seemed to "show" it. What I mean by that is there never looked to be like there was something there at all and the tone in his voice when he would claim it didn't convince me he was telling the truth at all. I think it was all an act on his part and never once was he into her. Before I continue it hasn't aired in my part of the U.S. yet so I read all the comments as the time goes on....with that if he was using the excuse of her walking away that is pretty weak on his part considering he was saying crap in those moments that weren't even things being talked about or asked. I would have walked away in her position too so I could gather myself instead of saying something that would have come out sounding bad. He was doing things like that on purpose IMO. As someone else had mentioned in another thread he seems to take pleasure in those comments and has a smirk on his face during most those times. I wouldn't be surprised if he was doing these things to make sure the marriage failed (but that he also got that free advertising for his 8's shirts) and hoping she would get suckered into it and act out back so he could give better reasons than her walking away bs. 

He was. I didn't record the ep so I can't check, but he said something like "How do I know you're not just going to walk off?" and they showed the two clips of her doing that. She talked about how she wanted to move forward from that, and then when things got heated, he dismissed her (really nastily, IMO) and said he was going to bed and she called him on the fact that he was walking out on her, which he claimed to hate when she did it.

I found myself thinking that Sonia walking out was to Nick as David asking that girl for drinks was to Ashley - an escape hatch he can use to blame on the marriage failing. "I couldn't trust her to communicate with me!" Which is bullshit, because again, he gave no indication until now that her walking out bothered him that much, and also, Sonia really does seem to be taking the advice about improving her communications skills to heart - she's admitted that she's not a good communicator a bunch of times and is trying to speak up more. If he were into her, he'd take that into account. 

[Snarklepuss]

2 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I found myself thinking that Sonia walking out was to Nick as David asking that girl for drinks was to Ashley - an escape hatch he can use to blame on the marriage failing. "I couldn't trust her to communicate with me!" Which is bullshit, because again, he gave no indication until now that her walking out bothered him that much, and also, Sonia really does seem to be taking the advice about improving her communications skills to heart - she's admitted that she's not a good communicator a bunch of times and is trying to speak up more. If he were into her, he'd take that into account. 

I know, what gets me is that she was basically walking out because he said something directly or indirectly insulting or untrue about her, not because she didn't want to communicate.  She TRIED to communicate only he wasn't hearing her.  So you are right on the money that he is just using that as an escape hatch.  I can't stand it when the real communicator in the relationship gets the blame for "lack of communication".  If it weren't for Sonia they'd be sitting there silent all day long.  She is constantly trying to get blood from a stone, otherwise he wouldn't blow up about it.  So this BS about her being a "bad communicator" is ridiculous when she is heads and tails above him in communicating.  Is she supposed to miraculously make him want to communicate with her otherwise be blamed for not communicating well enough?  Meanwhile where are the "experts" when all this is going on?  No one takes Nick aside to discuss his destructive behavior?  Sonia is the only one who has to take responsibility for their failed communications?  This show is really pissing me off now.

[Evil Queen]

5 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

I know, don't get me started, Mr. Snarkle was practically cursing at the TV when Dr. Pepper was so sympathetic to Derek and said he did his best or something to that effect.  WTF?  I'm now getting the feeling that he really went OFF on Heather to a degree that the show didn't even allow us to see.  Name calling, insults, just WOW.  And then he gets off scot-free like he did absolutely nothing wrong and then is allowed to make it look like Heather was the one who didn't want to enter into the process.  Well, after being totally insulted at a time when a partner should be trying to make things work with you and give you a good impression who can blame her??  Watching that argument over again it was clear that she was bringing up a concern like she wanted to talk it out, not end in a name calling scene, which is what Derek turned it into.  She gave him the opportunity to work with her at that point as far as I can tell but he just ended up tearing his shirt with her.  Another insecure asshole.  I got the feeling when he met with his mother that the wheels in her head were turning like she's not really surprised.  She loves her son and supports him but I think she has seen him screw up a potentially good thing before.

What pisses me off reading this...that is the same crap we saw last season with Pepper and Sam's bs. Pepper just keeps showing more and more how much of a joke she is. 

4 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

He was. I didn't record the ep so I can't check, but he said something like "How do I know you're not just going to walk off?" and they showed the two clips of her doing that. She talked about how she wanted to move forward from that, and then when things got heated, he dismissed her (really nastily, IMO) and said he was going to bed and she called him on the fact that he was walking out on her, which he claimed to hate when she did it.

I found myself thinking that Sonia walking out was to Nick as David asking that girl for drinks was to Ashley - an escape hatch he can use to blame on the marriage failing. "I couldn't trust her to communicate with me!" Which is bullshit, because again, he gave no indication until now that her walking out bothered him that much, and also, Sonia really does seem to be taking the advice about improving her communications skills to heart - she's admitted that she's not a good communicator a bunch of times and is trying to speak up more. If he were into her, he'd take that into account. 

Thanks. I will watch it tomorrow since I dvr it but don't mind ready all the comments everyone has with what is going on before I see it. LOL Figures he would dismiss her in such a manner. Agree this is his "Ashley" excuse to use for a failed marriage. *rollseyes* He had plenty of chances to tell the "experts" he wasn't trusting her for that pathetic reason but instead his marriage is an "8" like it says on his shirts and he thinks she is "awesome". SMH

[PityFree]

Is Section 8 the name of Nick's company? Because if it is, that's possibly the dumbest name for a vacation rental company I've ever heard. Section 8 is also a government program that helps low-income people get housing. I've done marketing work for an organization that provided Section 8 housing in the past. Does Nick realize what Section 8 is? I doubt that brand association what Nick is going for with a vacation rental company.

[Blissfool]

3 minutes ago, PityFree said:

Is Section 8 the name of Nick's company? Because if it is, that's possibly the dumbest name for a vacation rental company I've ever heard. Section 8 is also a government program that helps low-income people get housing. I've done marketing work for an organization that provided Section 8 housing in the past. Does Nick realize what Section 8 is? I doubt that brand association what Nick is going for with a vacation rental company.

He's being ironic. The full name of his company is Section 8 Yacht Club.

[PityFree]

1 minute ago, Blissfool said:

He's being ironic. The full name of his company is Section 8 Yacht Club.

Oh. He's an idiot. 

[Snarklepuss]

5 minutes ago, PityFree said:

Is Section 8 the name of Nick's company? Because if it is, that's possibly the dumbest name for a vacation rental company I've ever heard. Section 8 is also a government program that helps low-income people get housing. I've done marketing work for an organization that provided Section 8 housing in the past. Does Nick realize what Section 8 is? I doubt that brand association what Nick is going for with a vacation rental company.

I've posted on this before but it's unclear to me whether Nick is referring to the government housing program or the military term for this (from Wikipedia):

Quote

Section 8 is a category of discharge from the United States military, used for a servicemember judged mentally unfit for service. It also came to mean any servicemember given such a discharge or behaving as if deserving such a discharge, as in the expression, "he's a Section 8".

When I was young we used to call someone "Section 8" if we wanted to basically call them crazy.  When I was in college a group of guys who used to go to root for the home team at games and paint themselves and act like idiots called themselves "Section 8".

[izabella]

1 hour ago, BunnySlippers said:

It's a huge thing that she's been making all that effort with the dogs, and nobody seems to appreciate it. And yes, the dog trainer should have also trained Nick to set some boundaries for the dogs. But no, it was all about Sonia.

I appreciated it!  I thought Sonja was amazing for someone who is afraid of dogs.  She was snuggling with Dax in her arms on the couch! 

I'm giving the trainer the benefit of the doubt at this point.  My guess is there was a lot more to that training session but the editors decided to cut most of it out to craft their story.

[ciaoformeow]

Bottom line for Nick - he's not attracted to her. Finally he is honest and we hear the truth. 

Bottom line for Sonia - she really did need to stop saying "open up" so generally and get specific. Ask probing questions during those moments where you feel like  there is more to learn during a convo. Also, pretty damn sure she's not afraid of dogs - just doesn't like them. 

It's a shame that just when Sonia has taken huge steps (dogs, communicating, not running away when she is emotional), Nick has a total break down. 

Beautiful moments

• When the producers break the wall and yell out "ALL relationships take work" . It was like they were just fed up with his nonsense and that was nice to see them interject. 
• Our preview clip where Sonia has her big "intimacy" reveal.  Makes Nick even more of an ass  because this whole time he was acting like it never happened by making comments about him not being able to take things to a physical level. I can't wait to learn the timing on that in relation to his behavior. 
• The matchmaker telling Nick "Marriage ain't for punks!" or something like that. Damnnn, I loved that! I want to see more of that pastor(?) on the screen shoveling out the real talk as much as possible, please! 

 

So sick of Heather and Derek. ENOUGH ALREADY!! But I almost feel like they are going to try one last shot, and this is why they won't stop updating us on them. 

Edited September 21, 2016 by lilsadone

[Cherrio]

3 hours ago, PityFree said:

Face it Dr. P. You and the other experts shouldn't be trusted to pair up socks out of the dryer much less people.

Best post of all time for anything having to do with Married at First Sight.

Nick was wasted and it seems like he is an honest mean drunk.  I was happy to see Sonia pack and leave.  

[Evil Queen]

5 minutes ago, lilsadone said:

Bottom line for Nick - he's not attracted to her. Finally he is honest and we hear the truth. 

Bottom line for Sonia - she really did need to stop saying "open up" so generally and get specific. Ask probing questions during those moments where you feel like  there is more to learn during a convo. Also, pretty damn sure she's not afraid of dogs - just doesn't like them. 

It's a shame that just when Sonia has taken huge steps (dogs, communicating, not running away when she is emotional), Nick has a total break down. 

 

The sad thing is editing could have made it look like all she was saying was open up when really she was asking him questions. We have no clue thanks to the bad editing. 

I will say that I am not terrified of dogs but I do have a bit of a fear of some. I am just cautious about certain ones or if I feel one isn't coming off friendly like. I have been bit by a German Shepard by mom had (and cared way more about) and this was when I was about 24. Yet I can handle being around some dogs better than others without feeling uncomfortable or scared. She might be that way about it. She saw something bad happen to her friend and it freaked her out. So it stuck with her and so she is fearful but its not so much that she is overly freaked out. Yet even if its a dog I can handle I do not want it jumping on me or licking me. 

[Racj82]

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

People can definitely become less (or more) attractive to you as you get to know them. I can think of a number of men I've known that I was very attracted to initially and then I got to know them and thought "Yikes, never mind," sometimes in a very short window of time (e.g. a bad date). Whatever aspects of their personality that I objected to tainted their physical attractiveness for me.

Conversely, one of my best friends is married to a man who is unattractive, by any standard of conventional beauty. (My friend is attractive. They look mismatched enough that people give them looks on the street. And no, he isn't wealthy.) She wasn't interested in him at all at first but then they became friends and the friendship grew, and now they've been married for six years. She knows that he's objectively unattractive, but she is attracted TO him because of who he is as a person.

If Nick was initially attracted to Sonia and then her walking away from confrontation (the excuse he gave) was enough to turn him off, that's fine. He's within his rights. But it appears that he didn't tell her the extent to which that bothered him. That's on him. And he needs to find a way to express his feelings without being drunk and/or sounding like a petulant teenager. 

Stuff like this is so bizarre to me. Technically it's a sweet story but all I'm seeing is dude being called ugly over and over again. Like damn.

But, anyways, there is reason why I say all this out of someone's league is bullshit. People like who they like. People are attracted to different things. Not everyone is super shallow. You can also be the most conventional beauty in the world but if your personality sucks than your looks will only get you so far. So, Nick's comment have merit but I don't think he was ever actually attracted to her in the first place to be honest. But, the way she communicated feelings made it worse.

Either way they were a terrible match. Good one matchmakers.

 

Eta: This love of bunk that Sonia is scared of dogs is bunk. As person who can't stand animals and is petrified of dogs I'm insulted. She was not and never has been. Uncomfortable? Yes. Scared? Barely

Edited September 21, 2016 by Racj82
The dogs

[holly4755]

I had boyfriends that were tall or cute and one that was short, and , truthfully, very strange looking, what they all had were minds that could discuss an idea with me so that we could get carried away talking all night, the thing I liked a lot about my ex was that we could also sit in complete silence for hours, I could read or what ever and he could work on his hobbies. 

First why is Derek being handled with kid gloves and Heather being thrown to the wolves - my theory is Heather would not play what ever games production wanted, she jsut wanted out. Derek played what ever role they game him. Now he could have needed the money more. I don't know.  JMHO

 

OK now I feel I have to defend Nick not that I feel a need to but - you know because the "people pleasers are evil" comment from a while ago. One thing I notice is that Sonia never shuts up. She always is chattering away in the clips. now some people need some quiet from time to time. Like me. If possible I do not have conversations before 10 am or late at night.  that could start making someone look less attractive to me.  So here you have a guy doing what he contracted to do and falling further and further from being attracted and some things are pointless to talk about, changing a talker into a relatively silent person is wrong and cruel to the talker if you could do it. 

So here is Nick drunk saying he did not want to talk about it now because he was going to say something he did not want to say. All he wants to do is go to bed, and production follows him and says the same old things they have been saying, you can hear it on the tape. he is in no shape to deal with it and after X amount of time blows up. I actually find that a very real and relatable thing. I was trying to do something at work and someone was assigned tome, I told them to sit down and do something , but would they do it , no. instead they kept following me around and talking to me, telling me things about like what they did last night, I was trying to meet a deadline and could not concentrate. I was polite the first few times, asking them to do what I had assigned, but then I threatened them with loss of job, I had work to do, leave me alone, apparently they did not think I could fire them and jsut kept on. And then I blew. I can not think of why someone would do that, but apparently they thought it was fine, I just fired them. I didn't want no, normally they were a good worker, but argh, that day. Just saying, you are watching something go down the drain, can't think of a way to stop it, and all the while people keep saying the exact same thing over and over. it is overwhelming, and you have to try and think what is the least worse thing to do. again, just one possibility.  and let that be a warning, don't piss off a people pleaser, ha ha. 

Edited September 21, 2016 by holly4755

[Vinyasa]

Quote

Our preview clip where Sonia has her big "intimacy" reveal.  Makes Nick even more of an ass  because this whole time he was acting like it never happened by making comments about him not being able to take things to a physical level. I can't wait to learn the timing on that in relation to his behavior. 

I'm still saying Sonia and Nick never had sex. FYI is just messing with us. I believe this is the conversation

 Pastor Cal: "Sonia,  what do you wish you could tell me that has happened in your marriage, but it has not?"

Sonia " We had sex"

[jamblastx]

Derek/Heather -   Seriously Ms. Pibb?  Letters to each other for the great day that had together?  If we were talking about a two year marriage, ok maybe...but a two week one that 90% a disaster?  And Derek...cut the shit.  Why are you wearing the wedding ring?  She HATED you from day two that she met you so what are you holding on to?  Oh that's right, you want to be perceived as the martyr of season 4...must be hard getting around with that giant cross on your back.  And you know what's more embarrassing than telling your mommy or co-workers that your reality show arranged marriage failed?  Covering it up only for them to witness your pathetic behavior when the show airs..

Nick/Sonia - As I have said, Sonia is like nails on the chalkboard to me HOWEVER, I felt horrible for her.  Nick is a grade A asshole.  At the point of the show they had two weeks left of filming, why not just make the best of it.  You don't have to insult this poor woman who has been nothing but kind to you and your dogs.  And BTW, marriage takes a LOT of work...if you came on this show (as I suspect a lot of these morons who would sign up for this) not to do the work and just be plunked in the perfect marriage with Ms. Right as if you were coming into a fully furnished home, then this was going to fail no matter what.  It's the same dumb ass mistake that Derek assumed "Hey we are a perfect match....some TV show and their experts said so...so I am going to blaze up immediately".  Snarklepuss made a good point that she thought Nick was referring to that the work should not be in the attraction, and I get that....but he didn't exactly say that in so many words as we are left to analyze his slurring outburst.  And lest we all think that this is a documentary, we have the off camera producer putting in their two cents...where she is exactly right but you are there to document these two and not to comment on them...leave that to us ;)  And finally Pastor Judgy McShout....well we now know that even if Sonia downplayed her fear of dogs in her application, it wouldn't have mattered anyway since this man of the cloth pretty much says that she should just get over it. 

Tom/Lily - Stupid white boy who can't pronounce Spanish and know exactly what a Quinceanera is...jeez guys, he's trying.  They could have been just being playful but....oh I had to write something since these two are BOOORRRRINGGGGG.  Hence the early bus non-issue.  Wake me up when one of the other train wrecks are on...

[Neurochick]

10 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

Oh wow, they wanted Nick to 'open up' and boy did he ever! What a tool! Poor Sonia didn't deserve to be humiliated like that! He is not attracted to her, there, he said it, move on, bye! But of course the experts will try to get them to work it out so they aren't embarrassed that two of three couples they paired up tanked. 

I think Nick was being pushed to hard, he was drinking, Sonia and the producers were nagging at him to communicate and he snapped. Not making an excuse for him but what did he think was going to happen going on a show like this? 

I'm glad Tom and Lily seem to be making it work. 

I agree with this.  I'm going to be by myself, but Sonia is exhausting.  If she were my friend, I'd dump her.  One thing I know is that you DO NOT try to discuss something important with someone when they have been drinking.  That had to be producer driver, I can't believe Sonia is that stupid.  And Holly4755 is right, Sonia NEVER shuts up.  I just want to tell her, shut up and enjoy the moment, stop trying to make Nick what you want him to be.

Sonia was right about one thing, Nick is a child. 

I contrasted them to Tom and Lily (who are NOT boring to me.  It's nice to see two people actually getting along).  Though I do NOT credit the experts for this pairing (it remains to be seen how long they last).  Sometimes two people meet, hit it off and it works, and they're together until one of them dies.  There are relationships like that, rare but they do happen, those are the couples that when one dies, the other dies soon after.  Tom and Lily could be that couple, it's not because of the experts, sometimes life just works like that.

I think that's what Nick wants.  I think Nick thought Sonia was attractive at first, but he's grown to dislike her, because of what he perceives as her nagging him.  But she isn't nagging him, the problem is that Nick doesn't want to make an effort.  He doesn't realize that sometimes relationships take effort, he thinks there should be NO work, that it should just happen.  That doesn't happen often. 

I think the reason people aren't totally sure about Tom and Lily is because many people on this board are older and have seen relationships like Tom and Lily, where it's all sex at first and then they crash and burn.  It remains to be seen what happens to them.

Derek and Heather:  Something more happened with them that we did not see.  But the way it's edited makes Heather look like a bitch.  I still think it's more to it than what we have seen.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Neurochick

[Drogo]

4 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I'm going to be by myself, but Sonia is exhausting. 

You're not by yourself.  Sonia's timing and ability to read the room are... not great. 

I don't like Nick any more than I like Sonia (and I sure don't know anyone who wants to marry him or someone like him) but when someone says "Say something other than _____" it's a good idea to rephrase or be more specific.  

Has Nick been open with Sonia about his anxiety issues he discussed pre-wedding?  I know a few people with anxiety/PTSD and having an unspecific demand placed on them in a room with cameras and at least 2 TLC employees and under the influence would probably be their definition of hell. 

Full disclosure:  I'm someone who would never open up/share my inner thoughts on command. 

[Empress1]

3 hours ago, holly4755 said:

OK now I feel I have to defend Nick not that I feel a need to but - you know because the "people pleasers are evil" comment from a while ago. One thing I notice is that Sonia never shuts up. She always is chattering away in the clips. now some people need some quiet from time to time. Like me. If possible I do not have conversations before 10 am or late at night.  that could start making someone look less attractive to me.  So here you have a guy doing what he contracted to do and falling further and further from being attracted and some things are pointless to talk about, changing a talker into a relatively silent person is wrong and cruel to the talker if you could do it. 

I need some quiet too - being able to sit in companionable silence is huge for me. (Although I don't think I could be with someone who couldn't/wouldn't have a conversation before 10 AM because that would mean that my hypothetical husband and I got ready for work in silence, which would feel really lonely for me. I like to talk about what we both have coming up for the day. I'm not a morning person, but I do like to do that.) My best friend and I are like that. But if someone is talking and I need quiet, I open my mouth and say that. Ever deal with an office chatterbox? Sometimes you need them to go away so you can get shit done, so you say "Chatterbox, I really gotta get this done. I'll talk to you later" and then you signal that you're finished talking and in work mode by closing your office door, putting on headphones, whatever. Sonia is indeed chatty, but a) she's making an effort to be a better communicator, which is feedback she's gotten from him, and b) if it's too much for him, there's nothing stopping him from saying "Hey, can you give me half an hour? I just need to decompress. Thanks." They don't know each others' habits and needs yet, so they have to state them outright. From what we saw he just completely shut her out, which is really rude. If he was hoping she'd get the hint ... well, she didn't, and when people don't take hints you have to tell them what you need.

3 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I think that's what Nick wants.  I think Nick thought Sonia was attractive at first, but he's grown to dislike her, because of what he perceives as her nagging him.  But she isn't nagging him, the problem is that Nick doesn't want to make an effort.  He doesn't realize that sometimes relationships take effort, he thinks there should be NO work, that it should just happen.  That doesn't happen often. 

 I would argue that it never happens, especially over the course of a long relationship. Even if you're totally simpatico with a person, at some point, life is going to beat you up. Someone is going to lose a job, get sick, parents will become elderly and pass away, if you have kids they're going to bring a set of challenges (all my friends' marriages went through rough patches when the first kid was born), etc. and it takes work to navigate those tough times with a person.