S18.E36: Power Of Veto 12

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

The Power of Veto competition is held.

[JudyObscure]

I hate the way they all talk about Natalie just for playing the game.  Paul with his, "She had the audacity to come up here and talk to us."  Then Nicole acts like she's the new Saint Theresa of Big Brother.  Please. 

[Callaphera]

Oh, shut the fuck up, James. You're not playing for half a million dollars and you never have been. You're playing for AFP. You have been since you got in the door. Don't give lip service to it now.

That comp looked like a lot of fun. My feelings about the new MacGyver aside (which I've made known already), that was one of the better, more fun comps to watch. I would have loved to go through a course like that. The CBS promotion is always painful, though. 

[PaperTree]

After 18 long seasons of watching Big Brother, I have witnessed many, many delusional idiots.

James is now a finalist in the stupidest, most delusional idiot competition of all of BB.

Yes, moron James.  You voted out Victor and not Corey and now you are sucking up, pretending you think you might win.

That final DR is total BS.  He wants AFP, no way he could ever win.  

Man up tomorrow night.  When Julie announces the live vote, you should stand up and self-evict.

Walk out the door.  But no.  Chickenshit is your middle name,

Nat would be smart to walk the other way.

As the lesser of the evils. go Victor.  Paul and his smugness annoys the crap out of me, but only half as much as Nicorey's.

The VETO comp was cool.  More of this producers!

Bad Prediction:  James will somehow stumble into HOH tomorrow night.  Stupidity reigns.

ETA: If it gets Paul out; OK.

Edited September 8, 2016 by PaperTree

[Callaphera]

1 minute ago, PaperTree said:

As the lesser of the evils. go Victor.  Paul and his smugness annoys the crap out of me, but only half as much as Nicorey's.

Ugh. The smirk Nicole gets whenever the noms go her way or when Veto goes her way is annoying. Like, at least poker face it until you can get in a room alone or with your alliance. Then you can celebrate. And Corey tonight, looking like the pimp king with all the power, lounging shirtless in his bed all "I'm just sayin'." Gross.

[Artsda]

That was a fun veto comp to watch, even looked like they had a great time playing it.

Corey did a great time.

Glad Victor and Paul told James that Natalie threw him under the bus. Not throw your chances away for her, not worth it.

[Lamima]

Corey sure did go right into Veto comp and head right for the pipe on the wall without even looking around. And he just sailed through the entire thing as if...no, it can't be...like he kinda knew what to do.

[candall]

I thought this was a great episode.  The challenge was clever, fast and interesting.  There was betrayal, accusation, crying, hate-worthy smuginess, self-delusion and cluelessness.  There was some--not enough, but some--thought put into making the best move for future position.

 

Did I really hear James say Natalie would pull him off the block if she won the veto?!?  Oho, lol!  All of America could have mouthed the words along with her:  Well, James, it's your fault I'm here so it's only fair . . .

[Dilandau]

I would have loved to do that competition! I really like to play "escape the room" type video games. It would be interesting to try one out in real life.

[PaperTree]

One positive thing I will say for James (maybe the only thing):

He has never said anything about "taking the food out of his daughter's mouth"

[Wandering Snark]

So... I take back everything I said before about how well Nat was taking this, now she just can't let James go a minute without repeating over and over how this is all his fault and how she knew better. And then the whole 'Don't ever talk to me again if you work with Nicole and Corey after I go home' is just suuuuuch bullshit I can't believe it. I guess she's one of those 'I like people until they make their first mistake then I cut them off' people. The next bus is always on it's way I guess when you look like Natalie does. I thought she was sweet but turns out she's just jaded and callous. I hope she goes home as she's being a real bitch.

My other thought when the show started (with other summer fare wrapping up and all) was "Is this show over yet? Or even soon??" It seems interminable to me of late, I mean it's September for cryin out loud... enough already.

[partofme]

I really hated this edit and the way they thorough Nat under the bus with James as her poor little victim guaranteed to get AFP again.  Yuck.  Hate that Corey won veto.   Nicole is so smug and deserves to be taken down a few notches. 

Edited September 8, 2016 by partofme

[North of Eden]

Okay, before I get to the wheels coming off Jatalie I have to vent on CBS.

Tiffany Network you've got brass balls to pimp MCGYVER of all of your shows on BIG BROTHER....and that's because one can reasonably assume that many BB fans are also fans of the whole CBS reality trifecta which includes SURVIVOR and AMAZING RACE. Totally glossed over in the shameless promotion is that MCGYVER has taken  AMAZING RACE's spot reducing it to the first time in 15 years to one cycle this season...and that friends is the way (weigh?) station to CANCELLATION.

Now about Natalie...that was some low down Nina Myers end of season one 24 (spoilers if you are the last person never to have seen 24) s@%t right there. Revealing herself to really have been a villain all along. You could literally...and I mean literally hear James's heart breaking as his voice waivered when he said "That's a mean thing to say." I wouldn't have blamed him if he started crying. That was incredibly cruel and makes her feelings for him the whole time seem suspiciously shallow. You could tell when he was left sitting there alone on the floor he was realizing he had thrown his second chance away on someone who didn't deserve it. That is some of the saddest stuff I've seen on BIG BROTHER and that includes letting the contestant in Season 2 play out the game while her cousin perished in the World Trade Center collapse on 9/11.

As for the rest of the show I'm tired of Corey the grinning idiot. Astonishingly he really could actually win this game if he brings James over and they target smug and smugger and vote them out in the next two weeks.

Edited September 8, 2016 by North of Eden

[mojoween]

Did I miss something?  I could have sworn after Natalie talked to Victor and Paul that she then went to James and told him what she said, but then he acted blindsided later in both his talk with the two guys and in his DR's?

The veto comps are played on what, Saturdays?  Regardless, I would still be in that second room today trying to figure it out.  I am so not good at that kind of puzzle solving.

James's edict to plug MacGyver in his veto speech was the absolute WORST.

[PaperTree]

10 minutes ago, North of Eden said:

Okay, before I get to the wheels coming off Jatalie I have to vent on CBS.

Tiffany Network you've got brass balls to pimp MCGYVER of all of your shows on BIG BROTHER....and that's because one can reasonably assume that many BB fans are also fans of the whole CBS reality trifecta which includes SURVIVOR and AMAZING RACE. Totally glossed over in the shameless promotion is that MCGYVER has taken  AMAZING RACE's spot reducing it to the first time in 15 years to one cycle this season...and that friends is the way (weigh?) station to CANCELLATION.

Now about Natalie...that was some low down Nina Myers end of season one 24 (spoilers if you are the last person never to have seen 24) s@%t right there. Revealing herself to really have been a villain all along. You could literally...and I mean literally hear James's heart breaking as his voice waivered when he said "That's a mean thing to say." I wouldn't have blamed him if he started crying. That was incredibly cruel and makes her feelings for him the whole time seem suspiciously shallow. You could tell when he was left sitting there alone on the floor he was realizing he had thrown his second chance away on someone who didn't deserve it. That is some of the saddest stuff I've seen on BIG BROTHER and that includes letting the contestant in Season 2 play out the game while her cousin perished in the World Trade Center collapse on 9/11.

As for the rest of the show I'm tired of Corey the grinning idiot. Astonishingly he really could actually win this game if he brings James over and they target smug and smugger and vote them out in the next two weeks.

CBS. Yes.  

9/11. Seriously. Over. The. Top.

[North of Eden]

17 minutes ago, PaperTree said:

CBS. Yes.  

9/11. Seriously. Over. The. Top.

They seriously DOWN PLAYED  9/11 as best they could and everything that  was happening and just told I think her name was Monica that her cousin was just "missing" at the time....which could imply she was going to turn up. And there there was the whole akwardness when BB had to air the finale like an island amidst all the special coverage at the time....and I remember famously contestant Kent as he was going to put they key in the box  for determining the winner feeling obligated to say on the record during the live show that the "show pales in comparison to the tragedy that has befallen our nation" or something to that effect.

Edited September 8, 2016 by North of Eden

[woodscommaelle]

I would never, in a million years, have figured out that comp.  

[AndreaK1041]

What is it with these people and fruit? First Michelle gnaws on a whole kiwi, then Paul completely peels a banana and full palm grabs it in the middle to eat it?  Animals. 

I have no comment on the content of this episode. The season is too long and they are all starting to be assholes. 

[kathybgd]

Someone in production tweeted and strongly  hinted that Cory was told what to do by another contestant. (@kennaymart #BB18)

[Racj82]

2 hours ago, mojoween said:

Did I miss something?  I could have sworn after Natalie talked to Victor and Paul that she then went to James and told him what she said, but then he acted blindsided later in both his talk with the two guys and in his DR's?

The veto comps are played on what, Saturdays?  Regardless, I would still be in that second room today trying to figure it out.  I am so not good at that kind of puzzle solving.

James's edict to plug MacGyver in his veto speech was the absolute WORST.

She never said she mentioned James upstairs at all. She said she put her trust in the wrong people to James but that could just mean Nicole and Corey. She didn't tell him everything.

I really never believe the conspiracy theories about comps. Like, they are signed for a reality show to win money. They can't be forcefeeding winners through telling them what to do. There are legal rules against that. Have comps that favor other people? Sure. But, I don't believe for second Corey was told how to do anything.

James fucked up with some choices but no one forced Natalie to play James game so she can cry me a river. There's nothing to say that Corey could have been eliminated, got himself back in and did the same thing Victor is doing now. Win comps. You wont be in this position.

The smugness does not look good on Nicole. A lot of things don't though.

So basically, Natalie is so resentful of the fuck up James made, she wants to make sure that he fucks up his chances of winning if he stays as well. If they don't make final two together than she really doesn't care about him winning

James being heartbroken looked pretty damn genuine to me. Sucks to see no matter how much he screwed up in the game. He's not a bad guy. He's just made some bad choices.

[LADreamr]

45 minutes ago, kathybgd said:

Someone in production tweeted and strongly  hinted that Cory was told what to do by another contestant. (@kennaymart #BB18)

That's what I thought, watching it.  He went for the pole on the wall for the manhole before he even had a chance to identify the manhole or its significance.  I absolutely call bullshit on his turn. 

[candall]

6 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

James fucked up with some choices but no one forced Natalie to play James game so she can cry me a river.

Yeah, Natalie took a peek at "Life After Big Brother" and James isn't rocking her world as a consolation prize.  I think she's lashing out--not just because of that one vote that one time--but because she's suddenly having second thoughts about her whole season of "gameplay."  Such as it was.

[Ivana Tinkle]

Warning:  This post may have a lot of swears, because this episode pissed me the hell off.

1)  Nicole?  SHUT THE FUCK UP.  My God, her whining at the beginning sounded like a tea kettle going off.  Is your whine so high that you can't hear how annoying it is?

2)  Nicole - you do not have the necessary amount of brain cells to look down on Corey's intelligence.  He's more vacant than Antarctica, but he's won some mental comps.  And YOU, my little tea kettle, are a fucking dipshit.  Please see #1.

3)  Really with this edit?  And why does everyone always blow stories out of proportion?  

Natalie says:  It's fun being on the block with you James!

Paul says:  Natalie said she wished she could go on the block every week.  She said she loves being on the block.  She said the block is her best friend.  She said the block is going to be the maid of honor at her and James' wedding.  She said she wishes everybody loved the block as much as she did.  Can you believe her? 

Fuck you, show.  *slams door* (JK, I'll be back tomorrow) 

Edited September 8, 2016 by Ivana Tinkle

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, mojoween said:

James's edict to plug MacGyver in his veto speech was the absolute WORST.

I'm sure that was worth an extra $1K on James' stipend check, so I won't fault him.  :)

[Summerday]

5 hours ago, LADreamr said:

That's what I thought, watching it.  He went for the pole on the wall for the manhole before he even had a chance to identify the manhole or its significance.  I absolutely call bullshit on his turn. 

I completely agree, he didn't even look at the manhole or the pipes to see the shapes on the bottom, he just ran over and started unscrewing the correct one. What I don't understand is why BB didn't edit it so that it didn't look so rigged.

Also, I think it was production who told him what to do, not another houseguest. But if it was a houseguest, they should've shown it to us considering there are cameras everywhere and they're mic'd every second. The fact that they didn't is sketchy. Corey's turn looked so fake, it would only make sense to show Nicole or Vic telling him what to do so that their "gameshow" doesn't look shady AF. 

Edited September 8, 2016 by Summerday

[DAngelus]

7 hours ago, Callaphera said:

Oh, shut the fuck up, James. You're not playing for half a million dollars and you never have been. You're playing for AFP. You have been since you got in the door.

And isn't it so nice of BB/CBS to help out James's campaign by throwing Natalie under every bus running up and down Ventura Blvd by playing up the "sad James, Natalie isn't loyal, she's a bad showmance" edit and leaving out the slightly important information that 

Spoiler

James DOES have a Final Three with Nicole/Corey, and a Final Two with Nicole, and he's had them since very early in the game

which might change the audience's perceptions, just a bit?  Thanks, Grodner.  And by "thanks" I mean "fuck you", just to be clear.

I have no non-show information about who's going to be voted out, but I assume it's Natalie, for two basic reasons:

1) the men are sexist pigs, and

2) Nicole hates women and likes the idea of being alone in the house with her "boys".  Yep, she's Britney 2.0, if you swap the wonky eye for a pig nose.  

So, at the end of the day™, it wasn't Nicole who threw her game away for a showmance…it was Natalie.  Oh, well…it is what it is™.

(But still…grrrr.)

ETA (and pretty much OT):  Wait, what? 

Quote

Totally glossed over in the shameless promotion is that MCGYVER has taken  AMAZING RACE's spot reducing it to the first time in 15 years to one cycle this season

No TAR this fall?  I thought I'd just missed the promos.  That sucks. 

Three minor quibbles, though:

• The two-cycles-per-year format wasn't always established for Amazing Race;  in fact, IIRC, Season 4 didn't air for over a year after S3, so don't despair as yet.  It still has some basic benefits that would argue for keeping it on air.

• Also, I can't help but think it's a bit of karma for TAR 28's "Famewhores! Nothing but Internet Famewhores! Normal people? What's that?" garbage.  Maybe they'll go back to basics now, with their backs to the (Great) Wall.

• Regardless of what happens on that front, it's hardly MacGyver's fault.  Shows have to be judged on their own merits.  If too many of MacGyver co-star George Eads's back-in-day fans had been upset by the WB's cancellation of Savannah and refused to give its replacement a chance…well, then Buffy the Vampire Slayer might have been slain before its time.  And that would have "sucked beyond the telling", so…

But JMO.

Edited September 8, 2016 by DAngelus

[Sayla Vee]

Nicole asked Corey if he had help with the Veto comp and he said no.  She also said she didn't know what to do about the key until the DR told her it floated.

[JudyObscure]

9 hours ago, North of Eden said:

 

Now about Natalie...that was some low down Nina Myers end of season one 24 (spoilers if you are the last person never to have seen 24) s@%t right there. Revealing herself to really have been a villain all along. You could literally...and I mean literally hear James's heart breaking as his voice waivered when he said "That's a mean thing to say." I wouldn't have blamed him if he started crying. That was incredibly cruel and makes her feelings for him the whole time seem suspiciously shallow. You could tell when he was left sitting there alone on the floor he was realizing he had thrown his second chance away on someone who didn't deserve it.

 

I agree with James that it was a mean thing to say, but I don't think it indicates that she has been using him all along.  He had messed up their game (she thought) by trusting Nicorey and now he's talking about trusting them again?!    I thought she was threatening him in a "If you do that I'll kill you!" sort of way.  I thought it was anger in the moment and  her "not speaking ever again," wouldn't last through the first day.  James has said mean things to her and she's forgiven him almost instantly, so I think she's used to that sort of 'be mean now/say sorry later,' relationship.

It sure sounded to me like she repeated everything she had said to Paul and Victor right back to James and that James knew full well that in, "I trusted the wrong person," she meant James.  Who else?  I expected him to be hurt then, but he waited until Paul told him the same thing to react.  Why?  To play the sad, betrayed victim to Paul and Victor.

I think Natalie and James care about each other, but both of them want to win. Natalie is using her "I would have been loyal to you guys if James hadn't swayed me," argument and James is using the "Look how loyal I am to my ride or die partner," to sway them.  Look how fake his veto argument was with all the , I  would never throw Natalie under the bus." (not like she did me.)  Then he DR's that he came to win and that's all that matters.

James is using the best argument to Victor and Paul who hold Friendship as the highest virtue.  Add in the fact that Paul seems to truly hate women in a scary sort of way, and I feel pretty sure Natalie will go home tonight. 

[Lamima]

I wonder if these idiots all played the veto comp and couldn't figure it out...and blew up in the 1st or 2nd rooms...so they had to play again and were all given some hints. If just Nicole and Corey were...then that's BS. I would not be surprised.

[ghoulina]

This episode made me really sad. I have been a Jatalie fan from the beginning (as people, not necessarily players). I was one who thought this wasn't just a showmance, but something that might have legs outside the house. But now I'm beginning to think she played James. I'm feeling a bit played myself. It just seemed so cold when she told him that if he works with Nicole and Corey going forward to never talk to him again. What if she gets sent home and working with those two is better for his game than working with Paul and Victor? That was such a shitty thing to say, and it made me question their entire relationship, and the entire way I viewed Natalie herself. 

And I didn't even think it was THAT big of a deal when she told Victor and Paul that she made mistakes because she trusted James. Because she basically told James the same thing. So I didn't see it as really going behind his back. But for her to threaten him and make ultimatums, I just didn't like that at all. And it made me think that for all her talk about trusting in James and making moves based on him, she's really the one manipulating HIM. 

Ugh, I don't know. But it all just left a bad taste in my mouth. When Victor and Paul were telling him about their conversation with Natalie, he legit looked like he couldn't breathe; like he had just been hit by a ton of bricks. His game has been less than stellar this season, but on a personal level I really felt for him. 

I actually really enjoyed the Veto this week, but Nicole's stupidity makes me weep for the future of the human race. 

[ghoulina]

8 hours ago, Racj82 said:

James fucked up with some choices but no one forced Natalie to play James game so she can cry me a river.

Exactly! If she thought his decisions were so bad, she could have tried to talk him out of it or just gone another way entirely. No one was holding a gun to her head, and James is actually one of the more easy going houseguests. I think Nat liked using him as her shield, so she didn't have to be culpable. 

[Primetimer]

James starts out trying to be the hero, but will he end up feeling burned?

View the full article

[DAngelus]

From the recap:

Quote

James, dude, your game's over already, whether it's this week or next.

I wouldn't be too sure of that; assuming that Natalie is evicted, the next HoH is going to have three from the old "8-pack" (James, Nicole, Corey) playing, as opposed to only one from "La Revolucion" or whatever Jozea's group called themselves, way back when.

 Whether or not Natalie is correct in assuming that James has a longstanding agreement with "Nicorey" and that's why he wanted her to work with them, rather than staying loyal to her original allies (now calling themselves "The Sitting Ducks"), I think it's quite possible that Corey and Nicole, should one of them win HoH, might decide it would be best to use their game-long connection to James while they have the numbers in their favor, rather than cut him and end up in a "Final Four" where it's two against two.  And Nicole has the additional incentive of remembering that the Jury is going to be almost entirely consisting of newbies, and if she doesn't want to play Dan to (say) Corey's Ian, it might behoove her to be sitting next to another vet at the end.

And, of course, James might win HOH himself.  Or Veto, if Paul wins HoH and nominates James.  I give him a 50-65% chance of making it through next week, as a wild guess.

[Sara2009]

28 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Exactly! If she thought his decisions were so bad, she could have tried to talk him out of it or just gone another way entirely. No one was holding a gun to her head, and James is actually one of the more easy going houseguests. I think Nat liked using him as her shield, so she didn't have to be culpable. 

In fairness, the edit last night was REALLY wonky. It was a prime candidate for that Episodes vs. Feeds thread here.

[mojoween]

I don't even understand how James won AFP the first time, let alone how he could possibly win a second.

[laurakaye]

So let me get this straight...Corey goes into the first room of the MacGyver comp and immediately knows that he has to take down some random pipe when he hasn't even looked at the manhole cover...and yet, his brain short-circuits as he tries to figure out how to say the phrase "look who won the mental comp?"  I call BS.  He had to have been given instructions.  And that's crap.  Even Nicole doesn't think Corey could fight his way out of a paper bag.

I don't know what to think of Natalie, I tend to want to give her a pass on her behavior with James.  While it's true she didn't follow her instincts and try to side with Paul/Victor, she was ride-or-die with James, who has played this game before, and went along with his instincts instead.  However, if James did have a final deal with Nicole all along (which I suspect he does), and he never told Natalie, then she was taken along for James's ride, and probably realized that in a final four of Jatalie and Nicorey, Nat was going to be the one who was cut loose if/when it got to that point.

Further, I find James' behavior odd, as mentioned above.  Natalie told him exactly what she said to Paul/Victor.  But when Paul/Victor repeated her words to James, he acted like he'd just been blindsided.  Except...he wasn't.  Natalie had already come clean.  That's weird.

[ghoulina]

Even IF James had a "final three" with Nicole and Corey, do we really think - at this point - he'd cut Natalie lose before them? I don't. People make deals all the time and use them as far as they can get them. He might have been using a F3 with those two, with no intention of really choosing them over Natalie. I mean, why would he even agree to that genuinely when he knows Nicole and Corey would both pick each other him? 

Also, Natalie did not relay the convo with Vic/Paul word for word. She did give James the gist of it, but she did NOT mention his name specifically. She did not tell him that she told them she was wrong to trust HIM. She just told James something vague about "trusting the wrong people" - which could have easily been interpreted to mean Nicole and Corey. 

Again, I didn't think it was that big of a deal, since she has outright told James she shouldn't have gone along with what he wanted to do. BUT....given her whole "never talk to me again" moment, I think it made James question a lot of things. It's one thing to tell your ride-or-die that you're not happy with some decisions they made. It's another to go and use that to campaign against said person. James wouldn't campaign against Nat, but she clearly is. I'm not saying that's wrong, but I don't blame him for being hurt either. 

[Racj82]

45 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

So let me get this straight...Corey goes into the first room of the MacGyver comp and immediately knows that he has to take down some random pipe when he hasn't even looked at the manhole cover...and yet, his brain short-circuits as he tries to figure out how to say the phrase "look who won the mental comp?"  I call BS.  He had to have been given instructions.  And that's crap.  Even Nicole doesn't think Corey could fight his way out of a paper bag.

I don't know what to think of Natalie, I tend to want to give her a pass on her behavior with James.  While it's true she didn't follow her instincts and try to side with Paul/Victor, she was ride-or-die with James, who has played this game before, and went along with his instincts instead.  However, if James did have a final deal with Nicole all along (which I suspect he does), and he never told Natalie, then she was taken along for James's ride, and probably realized that in a final four of Jatalie and Nicorey, Nat was going to be the one who was cut loose if/when it got to that point.

Further, I find James' behavior odd, as mentioned above.  Natalie told him exactly what she said to Paul/Victor.  But when Paul/Victor repeated her words to James, he acted like he'd just been blindsided.  Except...he wasn't.  Natalie had already come clean.  That's weird.

Again, she didn't say she said anything about James to James. There seems to be a assumption that by her saying she put the trust in the right people, we'll of course James should have known she meant him. But, those words could easily be towards Nicole and Corey. Because they did trust their deal with them. James should have asked what she meant by that statement but that's his bad. 

[Sara2009]

13 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Even IF James had a "final three" with Nicole and Corey, do we really think - at this point - he'd cut Natalie lose before them? I don't. People make deals all the time and use them as far as they can get them. He might have been using a F3 with those two, with no intention of really choosing them over Natalie. I mean, why would he even agree to that genuinely when he knows Nicole and Corey would both pick each other him? 

Also, Natalie did not relay the convo with Vic/Paul word for word. She did give James the gist of it, but she did NOT mention his name specifically. She did not tell him that she told them she was wrong to trust HIM. She just told James something vague about "trusting the wrong people" - which could have easily been interpreted to mean Nicole and Corey. 

Again, I didn't think it was that big of a deal, since she has outright told James she shouldn't have gone along with what he wanted to do. BUT....given her whole "never talk to me again" moment, I think it made James question a lot of things. It's one thing to tell your ride-or-die that you're not happy with some decisions they made. It's another to go and use that to campaign against said person. James wouldn't campaign against Nat, but she clearly is. I'm not saying that's wrong, but I don't blame him for being hurt either. 

The problem is the many many things the editing monkeys neglected to show about Natalie's conversation with James if the Feeds thread is any indication. For starters, 

Spoiler

Natalie apologized immediately for her " Never talk to me again" comment. A lot of people also interpreted her comment about " betting on the wrong horse" to mean Nicole and Cory not James. Perhaps Victor and Paul came to the wrong conclusion. And this is just scratching the surface.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Sara2009

[simplyme]

51 minutes ago, Sara2009 said:

The problem is the many many things the editing monkeys neglected to show about Natalie's conversation with James if the Feeds thread is any indication. For starters, 

  Reveal hidden contents

Natalie apologized immediately for her " Never talk to me again" comment. A lot of people also interpreted her comment about " betting on the wrong horse" to mean Nicole and Cory not James. Perhaps Victor and Paul came to the wrong conclusion. And this is just scratching the surface.

*spanks the monkey*

Ahem. Sorry. That editing monkey just did a really bad job, and I... well, I have no taste.

[Seawolff]

I don't get a couple of things, and they both seem to be revolving around Natalie and her sour grapes.

1. How is it that James made a bad decision by keeping Cory instead of Victor? Why is it his fault that there was a twist that gave someone a chance to get back in the game and Victor happened to win it? I get that Natalie and Victor were aligned originally but it was smart to vote out a challenge monster like Victor.

2. Why is it that Nicole and Cory are disloyal? They had good relationships with Paul/Victor and James/Natalie and voted out Michelle, the only person there who was actively and loudly proclaiming her desire that Nicole be evacuated.

I mean, James and Natalie and Michelle never spoke with Nicole when she was hoh so technically they were assuming things. Not only that, but to assume that Nicole and Cory were against them has no merit since neither of them were on the block and both of them - and Cory had an equal chance to win HoH. So, really Natalie is sour grapes because her alliance didn't win hoh. It is my feeling that  it has been her attitude of paranoia and cluelessness that has betrayed her.

[LoneHaranguer]

2 hours ago, laurakaye said:

So let me get this straight...Corey goes into the first room of the MacGyver comp and immediately knows that he has to take down some random pipe when he hasn't even looked at the manhole cover...and yet, his brain short-circuits as he tries to figure out how to say the phrase "look who won the mental comp?"  I call BS.

It might have been the editing, but it's also possible what we saw was a re-enactment; the clock indicated that it took more time than it seemed. Corey probably won because the producers were lazy and he recognized the puzzles. I know I've seen the one with the floating key before, although I don't recall where, as well as a simpler variation of the first room.

[iMonrey]

There was something awfully phony about that Veto comp, and I don't mean just the fact that Corey managed to win it. The players who got "blown up" must have had to stop by the makeup department before retreating to the HoH room because there was nothing in that comp that would have blackened their faces (and I think Victor's shirt was even "torn" to make it look like he'd been in an explosion). We got stock footage of some building explosion then cut to the players entering the HoH room with blackened faces. How'd they get their faces blackened? They weren't actually in an explosion.

I don't really blame Natalie for saying "never speak to me again" if James works with Nicole and Corey, the very people who stabbed her in the back and are responsible for her eviction.

It certainly does benefit Nicole and Corey to keep James, because Natalie will definitely not work with them if she stays. But it does not benefit Paul who seems to be pushing equally hard to get rid of her, so he's as big an idiot as he claims that James is. In fact both Paul and Victor should find it very fishy that Nicole and Corey want to keep James over Natalie - that right there should clue them in something is afoot. Natalie's the most likely to help Paul and Victor going forward, not James.

[Wandering Snark]

I think it was Victol that in this episode after securing the veto (by dubious means) that said something like "Great now we can reach our goal in the 'Final Four' of really reaching the final four!" And I instantly replied 'No, your goal is to WIN the GAME not make a final four with your buddies. You dipshit!"  It made me think that they really have no plan for how to best maneuver themselves to the end after their "dreams" of reaching the final four come true. We've seen hints that Corey the Blonde Sleestack has thought that one out by nodding with that wierd look on his face to James, and you know that Nicole has seen this movie before and has some kind of thoughts on it. I feel that the "bros" are too caught up in their bro-ness to see the endgame coming when only one of them can win the money.

[laurakaye]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

There was something awfully phony about that Veto comp, and I don't mean just the fact that Corey managed to win it. The players who got "blown up" must have had to stop by the makeup department before retreating to the HoH room because there was nothing in that comp that would have blackened their faces (and I think Victor's shirt was even "torn" to make it look like he'd been in an explosion). We got stock footage of some building explosion then cut to the players entering the HoH room with blackened faces. How'd they get their faces blackened? They weren't actually in an explosion.

 

I  noticed that and thought, no wonder Corey and Paul were doing the comp in the dark...not only did production have to re-fill the water tank and re-stack the plutonium (or whatever), but also make-up and wardrobe had to drag the non-winners into a room, paint them with soot, and hack up their shirts with scissors.

[DAngelus]

6 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Even IF James had a "final three" with Nicole and Corey, do we really think - at this point - he'd cut Natalie lose before them? I don't.

Not necessarily the issue, though, IMO.  The question is not what James would do, but what Nicole and Corey would (and did) do.

Assuming that Natalie is correct about James's deals with Nicole (F2) and Nicorey (F3), this means James talked her into aligning with them (and turning her back on V/P) based on his knowledge that they would protect him over her, down the road.  He's set her up for this very vote, where no matter how Paul chooses to vote, Nicorey can make the choice between James and Natalie all on their own, two votes to Paul's one.  The show can include all the scenes that they want of Paul turning against Natalie, Paul urging the "Final Four" to evict Natalie, Paul being a misogynist pig, etc,…but ultimately Paul doesn't mean squat in this scenario.  It was always going to be Nicorey's choice whether to save James or Natalie.  A choice that may not really be much of a choice if they always had a secret deal with James.  And, since James didn't tell Natalie he had that deal in his back pocket, Natalie feels betrayed, since she thought she had a F2 with James.  Not so fast, apparently.

This follows a week where James gave Nicole a HoH that he could easily have won, and Nicole chose to evict Michelle (who would have gone after N/C) rather than break up V/P, who have set up this situation where Natalie's fate is in the hands of James's (alleged) secret allies.  And that followed a week where James refused to listen to Natalie about evicting Corey and instead insisted on voting out Victor, which fucked Natalie with her original allies, based on a deal he kept hidden from her.

So James double-crossed Natalie on one vote (costing her the loyalty of Victor/Paul) and handed over an HoH (costing Natalie Michelle), so that he could protect the two people he has a secret deal with, the same two people who are (apparently) now about to vote her out on the basis of that deal he didn't bother to tell Natalie about.  Yeah, I'd be pissed, too, and I'm not "in love" with James.

No matter how good the artfully-smudged "soot" makes him look in that picture on the recap.  (The low angle covering up his lack of height doesn't hurt, either, IMO.)

Edited September 8, 2016 by DAngelus

[EvilApplesauce]

Chiming in really late on this topic, but I just re-watched the conversation between Natalie, Victor and Paul in the HOH room. Natalie distinctly said "I trusted James and his judgement" - then the camera cut to James lying in bed. I just wonder where / why some are getting the idea that Natalie didn't actually call James out by name? She couldn't have been talking about Nicorey if she specifically said James. Paul is kind of a douche, but he's an honest douche and he recounted the conversation to Nicorey pretty much word for word. Just saying :)