Dancing With The Stars Announces Season 23 Cast

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I have a sneaking suspicion the Perry haters are gonna be vexed for several more weeks than many are now prognosticating.

For me, Henner absolutely qualifies as a ringer.  To me, it's about having once learned to shape oneself and move as a dancer.  That's the biggest battle newbies face.  It will come back to her very quickly.  However, her advanced age definitely mitigates this advantage. 

The one I most want gone is ice, ice, baby.

[Dots And Stripes]

My sympathies to Mark and Tony fans. Kind of an odd move for those two to be out as Maks, Derek, and Cheryl come back. I see no purpose to Gleb, especially after he left Strictly to "spend more time with his family" and apparently his wife is doing shows in Australia this fall. His partner sounds like she has a lot of baggage. I hope she is up to the challenge emotionally. 

I would have liked to have seen Terra with Mark. His challenges have mostly been age and/or brattiness. It would have been cool to see what he could do with a different type of celebrity. I'll be interested in hearing Mark's version of events, although I always take the stories from the pros with a grain of salt. Very few admit it if it wasn't their choice.

The cast is a bit of a mess. I'm fine with Rick Perry being there for now. He'll probably last a few more weeks than he should, but as long as he doesn't outlast my favorite I won't care. I'm just happy to have Maks back. 

[gohawks]

Derek. Crap. Marilu is no Cloris. Maybe she is not a complete ringer because of her age but Durwood has  real dancer who is very fit. This not the challenge for The Joker many have been wanting. 

Edited August 31, 2016 by gohawks
Grammar

[mtlchick]

Quote

 I think a couple of shows on DIY network having to do with home building &/or renovation, & something more recently that involved the Amish, as I remember (I don't think that was on DIY network, but can't remember which cable channel it was on); I think he had to live as they do, or something similR. 

A mix of both.  It was Vanilla Ice Goes Amish on DIY he does live like they do (no power, etc) and learns how to build the Amish way.  He also does some renovations for some of the local home owners.  

[Uke]

3 hours ago, BW Manilowe said:

Just a couple of small things in reply:

1. Jewel & the rodeo guy (Ty Murray) divorced, I think, a couple of years ago now. It was publicized, but also kept kinda quiet.

2. Yeah, Vanilla Ice has done some other reality stuff. I think a couple of shows on DIY network having to do with home building &/or renovation, & something more recently that involved the Amish, as I remember (I don't think that was on DIY network, but can't remember which cable channel it was on); I think he had to live as they do, or something similar. He might've been in the casts of other shows, like Celebrity Rehab, etc., but I can't remember. The shows about home building/renovation I'm pretty positive about though; the Amish show I'm not quite as positive about.

Reply in Vanilla Ice's thread

[vavera4ka]

I wonder if the next level of "ringer-ness" is Dmitry from Project Runway...

you heard it here first. season 24!

lol

[PhD-Purgatory15]

If Derek/Marilu, Val/Laurie, and Lindsay/Calvin aren't the last 3 standing I'll be 90% floored. I'll reserve 10% just in case Calvin truly has two left feet or Lindsay can't coax enough performance wow factor out of him.....and in case Marilu physically breaks down somewhere along the way. I see zero scenarios (barring a catastrophic injury) where Laurie isn't in the finale.

The 4th to 7th place range is going to be interesting this season. Mostly because they are so many couples you can make legitimate arguments for why they'll flame out early on. I'd tend to think Maks gets Amber Rose that far....but she could be the personality type that doesn't connect w/ DWTS's voting audience (a la Redfoo) and they go much quicker than anyone expects. I'll say nostalgia and Artem's charming self (mercifully free of Mischa's anchor this season) gets Maureen into this range. Maybe James can add dance ability to his "bring the pretty" ability and Sharna makes it beyond halfway. She's not immune to a contestant w/ low buzz and low ability.....she went out second w/ Tavis Smiley just a few seasons ago. Witney/Ice Ice Baby might be the Peta/Tommy Chong of the season and surprise everyone by making to Top 5 or 6. Or he could go the way of Redfoo and be out in a flash. Gleb and Jana are solely dependent on how she comes across....and how she presents her participation in relation to the craziness that is her current personal life. I'll tentatively say 8th seems about right for her.

My assumption is Rick Perry will go first (hallelujah as I have no patience for a Trump surrogate ruining my Monday nights), followed by Babyface, then Terra Jole, and then maybe Lochte or Jake Austin in some order. Which we'll get us to the Top 8, and we can reset our expectations :-)

Edited August 31, 2016 by PhD-Purgatory15

[saylubee]

This is an interesting season where it's hard to pinpoint who is going to be the first out.  There's six celebs that you could make a decent case for -- Perry, Babyface, Jake, Ryan, Maureen, and James.  All of them depend on the attitude coming in.

As much as Perry seems like the obvious choice, if he came out the first night having decent chemistry with Emma and strong convictions about being happy to be there he could easily last a few rounds.  If he starts on political tangents or acts like he's too good for the show, he's out right away.

Babyface already looks so uncomfortable in the promo shots with Allison.  I know he's got a music project to promote, so this may not have  been his first choice for publicity.  Allison's not the strongest pro to help center a frazzled celeb.

Jake and Ryan have attitude problems and fairly small fanbases.  If they bring any negativity and unpracticed dancing to the floor, they just aren't going to get votes.

James could easily pull a Sean Avery.  I think he's the most likely to stick around for a few weeks though.

Maureen was signed before Marilu and I have to wonder how she feels about her "older actress" title kind of being pushed aside for the obvious older ringer.  I could see her deciding that she doesn't want to deal with the politics of being compared to Marilu and tanking the season early before risking injury.

[crossover]

If Laurie had Mark or Derek, she'd be the sure winner.  To me, she and Val don't look good together.  But she's a cutie and an olympian who has dance as part of her training.  So I say she's the favorite.

I have Marilu as a finalist because of all her dance training.  I know Marilu is older now but she looks like she's kept her body up.  I saw a vid of Debbie Allen (starred in Fame, dancer...) at a white house event.  She can still get that leg up.  She and Marilu are about the same age.  So I'm sure Marilu can do ballroom.

I have to ASSUME James is talented because TPTB put him with Sharna.  He must have dancing skills, a great fanbase, a winning personality, or some winning combination because Sharna usually gets celebs with whom she can win.  So I have him 3rd.

I have Rick Perry as the first out.  Rappers don't do well on this show.  Not the right demographic.  So I think Vanilla Ice will be an early out.  I think Amber will have the talent but DWTS isn't her demographic.   She'll have Maks but I still put her in the early out group.

Some depend on the chemistry with their partner and how they transmit via the screen.  For instance, I like Calvin but he seems to have a quiet personality.  Plus he and Lindsay will have a height problem.  Supposedly Maureen has a lot of dance in her background  She may be better than Marilu?   Babyface seems to have a quiet personality too.  Plus he's paired with Allison who's really not a ballroom dancer.  For some reason, I don't see Ryan as being very agile.  He'll probably last longer than he should because of his olympic status, Rio problem, and Cheryl as a partner.

Really have no clue on how Jake, Terra, or Jana will do.  They could be breakout stars, the show's darlings, or dreadful.

[smiley13]

9 hours ago, Dots And Stripes said:

My sympathies to Mark and Tony fans. Kind of an odd move for those two to be out as Maks, Derek, and Cheryl come back. I see no purpose to Gleb, especially after he left Strictly to "spend more time with his family" and apparently his wife is doing shows in Australia this fall. His partner sounds like she has a lot of baggage. I hope she is up to the challenge emotionally. 

I would have liked to have seen Terra with Mark. His challenges have mostly been age and/or brattiness. It would have been cool to see what he could do with a different type of celebrity. I'll be interested in hearing Mark's version of events, although I always take the stories from the pros with a grain of salt. Very few admit it if it wasn't their choice.T

Brattiness?  Who would you say was a brat?  I can not think of anyone.  Mark has had some younger partners, but they were sweethearts like Sadie and Willow.

[McManda]

42 minutes ago, smiley13 said:

Brattiness?  Who would you say was a brat?  I can not think of anyone.

Bristol Palin did not come off as a sweetheart. 

Edited August 31, 2016 by McManda

[Dots And Stripes]

40 minutes ago, smiley13 said:

Brattiness?  Who would you say was a brat?  I can not think of anyone.  Mark has had some younger partners, but they were sweethearts like Sadie and Willow.

Bristol and possibly Shannon, although she wasn't really there long enough to see. Overall I would say Mark has been light on real challenges. 

[STFUFrank]

5 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

Bristol and possibly Shannon, although she wasn't really there long enough to see. Overall I would say Mark has been light on real challenges. 

Let's not forget Kim Kardashian. She wasn't exactly Americas sweetheart and she was a challenge as well. 

[puppy breath]

Marilu Henner also has highly superior autobiographical memory - which means she can remember EVERY, SINGLE THING she's ever, seen/done/heard in her entire life.  Derek will show her a dance and she will remember it from the get go.   So, formal dance training or not, she seems to be a shoe in.   

[Dots And Stripes]

3 minutes ago, TotalHellion said:

Let's not forget Kim Kardashian. She wasn't exactly Americas sweetheart and she was a challenge as well. 

You're right! She fits the brat category but also goes to my point that we haven't really seen Mark with someone outside the box yet. I would have liked to have seen him with Terra.

[PhD-Purgatory15]

James doesn't seem to think he's got a whole lot of dance skill. He rated himself a -5 in an interview video on youtube's The Indy Channel. What's more concerning is that for the first two weeks of the season he's going to be juggling the final two races of the IndyCar season.

If you're not the most natural dancer....I worry how his divided loyalties (at least for the first two weeks) will affect his performance.

[simplyme]

8 hours ago, movement said:

I have to ASSUME James is talented because TPTB put him with Sharna.  He must have dancing skills, a great fanbase, a winning personality, or some winning combination because Sharna usually gets celebs with whom she can win.  So I have him 3rd.

I don't really understand the "Sharna always gets winners" theory. Sharna's previous partners that I recall have been Andy Dick, Keyshawn Johnson, Charlie White, Tavis Smiley, Noah Galloway, Nick Carter, and Antonio Brown. Andy Dick was bad. Keyshawn Johnson was god awful and arrogant. Tavis Smiley was bad. Noah Galloway was missing body parts and made the finals based on the patriotic vote and Sharna choreographing to his strengths. 

Her three best partners were Charlie, Nick, and Antonio, and Charlie was the best of the three of them but was never going to win that season. I dkn't think he even made the finals, did he? Nick was hyped but was a pretty poor actual dancer (which could have been predicted had anyone seen him actually "dance" before), and Antonio couldn't be bothered to put the effort in (and wasn't going to win vs. Nyle either).

One of the reasons I like Sharna is that I thought she handled Andy Dick well, and she put Keyshawn in his place. I thought she said the right things to Noah when he got frustrated, too. She's certainly had her share of bad dancers, so I'm not going to assume that Hinchcliffe is decent.

[truthaboutluv]

4 hours ago, TotalHellion said:

Let's not forget Kim Kardashian. She wasn't exactly Americas sweetheart and she was a challenge as well. 

Actually, Mark always had nothing but good things to say about Kim, calling her a sweetheart. Kim's issue was that she was stiff as a board and too self conscious to ever let go enough to really get into the dances.

[crossover]

2 hours ago, simplyme said:

I don't really understand the "Sharna always gets winners" theory. Sharna's previous partners that I recall have been Andy Dick, Keyshawn Johnson, Charlie White, Tavis Smiley, Noah Galloway, Nick Carter, and Antonio Brown. Andy Dick was bad. Keyshawn Johnson was god awful and arrogant. Tavis Smiley was bad. Noah Galloway was missing body parts and made the finals based on the patriotic vote and Sharna choreographing to his strengths. 

Her three best partners were Charlie, Nick, and Antonio, and Charlie was the best of the three of them but was never going to win that season. I dkn't think he even made the finals, did he? Nick was hyped but was a pretty poor actual dancer (which could have been predicted had anyone seen him actually "dance" before), and Antonio couldn't be bothered to put the effort in (and wasn't going to win vs. Nyle either).

 

I'm not saying all her partners were favorites to win, especially the first couple of seasons.  TPTB have to work them in first to see if they are worthy of investing with good celebs.  Even Derek got celebs who weren't expected to do well.  And, I'm not saying that James is good.  I was just playing the game of "who will".  For the last few seasons, Sharna has had descent partner runs.  So I thought she was a good bet to get another one.  But, James should have some dance skills, good fanbase, good peronality or just the "it" factor to move on.  Maybe you're right and Sharna won't be able to get him past the first 3 or 4 weeks.

I think Nick, for this show, was good enough to win during his season.  Charlie and Antonio's seasons were tougher but they should've done better.  Andy and Noah went further than they should have because of the "favorite" aspect of the game.  Tavis and Keyshawn couldn't dance nor were they popular with the DWTS faithful. 

Chemistry with your partner goes a long ways.  We'll see if Sharna has any with James.

[simplyme]

7 minutes ago, movement said:

I'm not saying all her partners were favorites to win, especially the first couple of seasons. 

Fair enough. :)

I didn't mean to pick on you. I've seen multiple people post that sentiment and wanted to point out that Sharna has had a mix of partners. (As to Nick being capable of winning his season, let's agree to disagree. For my money, the guy was pretty bad after years of dancing and didn't improve much while on the show. Obviously others disagree.)

I certainly don't think Sharna has had the bad assignments of poor Emma, who appears to be the female Tristan. I just don't think Sharna necessarily gets great ones all the time (and has had at least one, Andy Dick, that she got much farther than I expected).

Then again, it seems to be much harder to accurately gauge the male celebrities coming in than the females. Or maybe that's just me?

[kitcloudkicker]

9 minutes ago, simplyme said:

Then again, it seems to be much harder to accurately gauge the male celebrities coming in than the females. Or maybe that's just me?

Men can be "bad dancers, but it's so cute that he's trying and having a good time." (Which is why, if it turns out he can't dance, I have James pegged as a potential Ty Murray/Alek Skarlatos.) The women don't have that luxury, they have to be amazing dancers or nothing. 

[crossover]

15 minutes ago, simplyme said:

Then again, it seems to be much harder to accurately gauge the male celebrities coming in than the females. Or maybe that's just me?

Most of the voters are women.  They are harder on the female celebs than the male ones.  They want the female celebs to carry the routine (because that's a major part of ballroom) but they don't want them to have any kind of training--ringery.  If the male celeb has musicality, stage presence, and a humble personality, they can go far.  Execution becomes secondary.  So you really need to see how the men perform for a couple of weeks.  We can go by the woman's skills.

Edited August 31, 2016 by movement

[STFUFrank]

11 minutes ago, movement said:

Most of the voters are women.  They are harder on the female celebs than the male ones.  They want the female celebs to carry the routine (because that's a major part of ballroom) but they don't want them to have any kind of training--ringery.  If the male celeb has musicality, stage presence, and a humble personality, they can go far.  Execution becomes secondary.  So you really need to see how the men perform for a couple of weeks.  We can go by the woman's skills.

I'd say no experience would apply to the men as well. Mario Lopez, Joey Fatone, Corbin Bleu and I'm sure others were scrutinized for their dance experience. 

[boyznkatz]

I hate the idea of Golden Boy coming back, but come on, Marilu Henner is nearly the age of my mom (and I'm no spring chicken). I doubt she's that much of a ringer. Plus, she was relevant decades ago. I think Laurie Hernandez or even Lochte has more chance of winning. At least people know who they are, and they are in great shape.

Edited August 31, 2016 by boyznkatz

[sinkwriter]

Quote

I hate the idea of Golden Boy coming back, but come on, Marilu Henner is nearly the age of my mom (and I'm no spring chicken). I doubt she's that much of a ringer. Plus, she was relevant decades ago. I think Laurie Hernandez or even Lochte has more chance of winning.

For Marilu, it might come down to needing votes, but I still think she's got a potentially better chance of winning than Lochte, based on her skill level. Just because Lochte's in great shape, that doesn't mean he has any dance rhythm. There have been lots of athletes on this show who sucked at dance. We shall see!

[DancingD]

I watched Sharna and James do a FaceTime (I think) today and have to say that James is a charmer. Funny too. They're already getting along like gangbusters, and Sharna says he has potential. But maybe she's being generous, we shall see.

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

Quote

Vanilla Ice and Witney - Tempted to put this as a hot mess, but people are saying he was on another reality show and was humble and hardworking? Could be unexpectedly Tommy Chongish?

You may be on to something. I live in South Florida where he lives and he was on the local radio station and gave a very humbling interview, hoping not to get voted off right away. Of course he's going to pull the "Ice-Ice-Baby" moves at some point so the nostalgia factor may pull people in to vote for him. 

[Lewis]

57 minutes ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

You may be on to something. I live in South Florida where he lives and he was on the local radio station and gave a very humbling interview, hoping not to get voted off right away. Of course he's going to pull the "Ice-Ice-Baby" moves at some point so the nostalgia factor may pull people in to vote for him. 

Yeah he's a really down to earth guy (from the other shows I've seen him in). I just hope Witney is serious this year, and at least show that she cares for her partner and his journey on the show.

[friendperidot]

There are cast members I've never heard of, there usually are, I don't watch Disney, this is the only reality show I watch, I'm not a spring chicken, I'm part of the demographic that most networks are trying to ignore since we will be dead in the next 20-40 years! One thing I have learned on this show that some cast members I never heard of are quite fun and charming, Drew Lachay, (maybe spelled wrong, told ya, I never heard of him before), Kyle Massey, adorable, Zendaya, what a gorgeous young woman! Some people I disliked intensely - Andy Dick, I enjoyed him on the show, Bill Engval, was my least favorite of the Blue Collar Comedy, but so charming. Was never a big fan of Tommy Chong, and I'm from the 60s and would now like to see Cheech Marin on the show. Others, I disliked before the show and my opinion never changed, but I am not going to mention them here. Some people I liked before they came on the show, but disliked by the time they left.

So, the only things I know about Amber Rose is from the Fug Girls and she does like to show her body, but what a body it is! I will wait til I see her. I don't follow any kind of racing, so I have no opinion on the driver, or are there 2? Football, eh, quit following when I moved from my home town, KC to WDC and was informed I had to love the Washington Redskins, I informed the jerk who said it, that no, I didn't and still hate the 'skins and I quit football too, but I don't miss it. I do follow the Olympics, thought Laurie was gorgeous, adorable and I look forward to seeing her. Ryan, was a stupid jerk, but we'll see if he can help himself. Don't have cable any more, so I know nothing about Terra. Don't follow music, rap or country, so withholding judgement til I see. I think I did see a few minutes of the Amish home building show, no one stood out as a horrible person. Do follow politics, so I won't even go there.

I was never a big Brady Bunch fan, I was a little older when it came on, and busy, so I didn't watch or care, I know a little about Maureen McCormick's personal life, I wish her well. I loved Marilu Henner on Taxi and on Evening Shade and I'm older, so I'm really pulling for her.

[Emily-D]

It is fairly hard to choose a first out this season looking at all of them and the seven that have been mentioned as possibly in danger. I've got a very bad feeling that Rick Perry will pick up that republican vote that kept Bristol Palin in for all those weeks. Hopefully he's such a bad dancer that people don't have the heart to pick up the phone for him like Geraldo last season. Jake Austin looks throughly miserable and doesn't have a good rep. If he gets a bad early score I think he'll be gone straight away as I can't see anyone voting for him and Jenna. Babyface looks like he might struggle as well and having Allison as a pro won't help, his iconic music status won't save him if he can't dance as Chaka Khan proved. Vanilla Ice will pull out Ice Ice Baby in week 1 I reckon just to survive and grab some nostalgia votes. I can't see him lasting much further though as rappers don't really appeal to voters. Terra has a bad reputation from her LA show and is already playing up her difficulties in interviews so she could struggle for votes. I think Maureen will survive a few weeks though unless she's a TERRIBLE dancer. She's a huge nostalgic draw (probably even more so than Marilu) and her fanbase and Brady Bunch viewers fall perfectly into the DWTS demographic audience. Add that to people supporting Artem after his terrible time last season and I can see a lot of love for this couple providing they connect as a partnership and aren't a complete mess on the floor. They could last until about the time of switch up week. Amber Rose won't get many votes as time goes on with her history but having Maks will keep her around until halfway at least. I have absolutely no idea how Lochte will do, he could go early or come close to the final, it depends on many things. Jana I think will go just before the final like so many actresses before her. Laurie is 100% guaranteed to be in the final and I think Calvin and James are her biggest threats to winning. Marilu's success probably depends on how much stick she gets for her previous dance experience but she should make the final considering her memory, experience and Derek as a partner. 

[KLovestoShop]

When I saw the publicity photo with Amber and Maks, all I could see were her enormous boobs.  I really think those will get in the way in some of the dances.  

I'm surprised Laurie is doing the show because the Final Five are under contract to do a Gymnastics Tour. But when looking at the photos of the women's team posted on the ticket site, her picture is no longer included.  

[Uke]

23 hours ago, Uke said:

 

 

14 hours ago, Dots And Stripes said:

Bristol and possibly Shannon, although she wasn't really there long enough to see. Overall I would say Mark has been light on real challenges. 

Light of real challenges? IMO no partner of any season with any partner was more of a challenge than dealing with Bristol et. al  in her 1st season.  The stuff he had to deal with - and not just for himself but family members, his management, his admin, even some of his fans. It was serious stuff that went down.  But he pulled it off appearing cool, calm + collected on the show and most were none the wiser.  

But of the more ordinary challenges, I'd put Christina on that list.  What a pain in the neck she was.

[Victura]

1 hour ago, KLovestoShop said:

 

I'm surprised Laurie is doing the show because the Final Five are under contract to do a Gymnastics Tour. But when looking at the photos of the women's team posted on the ticket site, her picture is no longer included.  

The photo up on the site is of last year's Worlds team, which Laurie wasn't a part of since this is her first year at the senior level. Her coach has said she's doing both so maybe she'll just have an insane travel schedule.

Most of the tour dates are around the weekend anyway, so maybe it won't be that bad if she's a quick learner. It's also possible that she might not do every single tour date. 

[DancingD]

1 hour ago, Uke said:

 

Light of real challenges? IMO no partner of any season with any partner was more of a challenge than dealing with Bristol et. al  in her 1st season.  The stuff he had to deal with - and not just for himself but family members, his management, his admin, even some of his fans. It was serious stuff that went down.  But he pulled it off appearing cool, calm + collected on the show and most were none the wiser.  

But of the more ordinary challenges, I'd put Christina on that list.  What a pain in the neck she was.

Oh my. Do tell!

[kitcloudkicker]

(Vague) Statement from Mark on this season, seems to count out any last minute reveals

 

Derek commented on it, "Can't wait for people to hear where you're going!!" So it sounds positive. Interesting new things for Mark soon?

Edited September 1, 2016 by kitcloudkicker

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I thought Mark's body was breaking down at an alarming rate and that he was through as a dancer.  The note does nothing to diminish my suspicion.  

I do wish him well.

[smiley13]

Mark will be missed.  IMO he is the most innovative choreographer that the show has ever had.

[McManda]

Mark grew on me as he matured, but I think he started relying too much on themes and costumes. People complain about Derek hiding his partners' flaws with gimmicks and creative choreography, but Mark did too, starting back with Bristol and the gorilla costume. Everything started to have an intricate costume and set and theme and what I started to remember was that, not the dance itself. 

[Lewis]

2 hours ago, McManda said:

Mark grew on me as he matured, but I think he started relying too much on themes and costumes. People complain about Derek hiding his partners' flaws with gimmicks and creative choreography, but Mark did too, starting back with Bristol and the gorilla costume. Everything started to have an intricate costume and set and theme and what I started to remember was that, not the dance itself. 

I agree. We tend to criticize Len's comments at times, but he's right when he tells Mark (and Derek sometimes) that the concept overshadowed the actual dance. I think there's a difference between being creative in your choreography (and let's be honest, it's ballroom, there's only so much you can do) and just getting in outrageous costumes. 

That said, I actually will miss Mark's costumes lol

[lavenderblue]

I only became a regular viewer a few years ago so don't have those earlier season issues with him, but what I've appreciated about Mark's work is that actually, despite what stands out most in the memory for some, I always felt in the midst of the concept there was a concerted effort to integrate content; it struck me more as an effort to juice up traditional material for viewer (and his own) interest rather than just serving as smoke and mirrors, and it's the dancing when done well that's stuck with me. Paige had a fair number of lower-concept dances particularly given how well she could sell straightforward partner dance, but then even so did Candace, Sadie, and Alexa; Willow was a rather special case.

(And I think sometimes that was the detriment; if the real content wasn't executed as well by a given partner, it could disappear more easily -- Sadie and Paige's pasos are good contrasts here. Derek's fusion tactics probably do a better job at covering over flaws or actual physical limitations.)

[katha]

2 hours ago, lavenderblue said:

I only became a regular viewer a few years ago so don't have those earlier season issues with him, but what I've appreciated about Mark's work is that actually, despite what stands out most in the memory for some, I always felt in the midst of the concept there was a concerted effort to integrate content; it struck me more as an effort to juice up traditional material for viewer (and his own) interest rather than just serving as smoke and mirrors, and it's the dancing when done well that's stuck with me. Paige had a fair number of lower-concept dances particularly given how well she could sell straightforward partner dance, but then even so did Candace, Sadie, and Alexa; Willow was a rather special case.

(And I think sometimes that was the detriment; if the real content wasn't executed as well by a given partner, it could disappear more easily -- Sadie and Paige's pasos are good contrasts here. Derek's fusion tactics probably do a better job at covering over flaws or actual physical limitations.)

Yeah, I agree with that. Mark tended towards a lot of content, sometimes too much, and also a clear effort to present content in different, slightly twisted ways. Like, there's lots of samba in that Duck Dynasty samba, but the movement is a bit off-kilter and integrates those duck moves into everything. Where I think he overshot at times is that he had moments when he misjudged what a partner could handle: Like, I think Chelsea Kane would have been fine doing a traditional paso. But he got that dark techno music and wanted to do movements that reflected the music, so he did this ghoulish theme where he took traditional paso content and then made it bizzare and extreme. He could pull it off IMO (though he indulged his worst try-hard tendencies...), but it was beyond Chelsea. Same with Sadie's paso, he's brilliant in it and the movements carry the theme, but it wasn't the best showcase for Sadie. OTOH, often enough he also found something unique or interesting that a partner could do as a dancer or performer and played to that strength, perhaps moreso than some of the other pros.

ETA: It looks like Mark is heading to Broadway: http://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwtv/article/DWTS-Mark-Ballas-to-Join-Cast-of-Broadways-JERSEY-BOYS-201609011

Edited September 1, 2016 by katha

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 8/30/2016 at 7:47 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

For me, Henner absolutely qualifies as a ringer.  To me, it's about having once learned to shape oneself and move as a dancer.  That's the biggest battle newbies face.  It will come back to her very quickly.  However, her advanced age definitely mitigates this advantage.

I'll admit that I haven't kept up with what Madonna's been doing for the last few years, but it's my impression that she's still holding her own on the stage and she's 58--not that much younger than Marilu Henner.  Or maybe I'm just taking these "advanced age" comments a little personally.

[simplyme]

35 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I'll admit that I haven't kept up with what Madonna's been doing for the last few years, but it's my impression that she's still holding her own on the stage and she's 58--not that much younger than Marilu Henner.  Or maybe I'm just taking these "advanced age" comments a little personally.

Well, @StatisticalOutlier, it will be fascinating to see if Henner can drag one foot out of the grave to give us a good performance! It's a good thing she has Derek, who will be able to incorporate her walker seamlessly into the routines. Maybe she can even toss in some denture tricks! I'm sure wardrobe will make sure her outfit conceals her Depends.

Yes, the entire previous paragraph was a joke. Admittedly she isn't Shawn Johnson, but I've known some 64-year-olds who outdance, outwork, and outmove most 20-somethings. So I'm going to wait and see. :)

[iMonrey]

Quote

Men can be "bad dancers, but it's so cute that he's trying and having a good time." (Which is why, if it turns out he can't dance, I have James pegged as a potential Ty Murray/Alek Skarlatos.) The women don't have that luxury, they have to be amazing dancers or nothing. 

This is why the footballers bug me so much. They seem to be judged and voted for on the basis of the "novelty" of a big, strong, tough guy trying to dance. Like it's just so damn cute. I agree the women contestants are just expected to be able to dance, at least a little, because they're women. But the same also applies a lot of times to male actors and singers. It's the male athletes, particularly the footballers, that seem to get a pass just because of the idea of a footballer dancing is apparently so damn engaging.

[calipiano81]

4 hours ago, lavenderblue said:

I only became a regular viewer a few years ago so don't have those earlier season issues with him, but what I've appreciated about Mark's work is that actually, despite what stands out most in the memory for some, I always felt in the midst of the concept there was a concerted effort to integrate content; it struck me more as an effort to juice up traditional material for viewer (and his own) interest rather than just serving as smoke and mirrors, and it's the dancing when done well that's stuck with me. Paige had a fair number of lower-concept dances particularly given how well she could sell straightforward partner dance, but then even so did Candace, Sadie, and Alexa; Willow was a rather special case.

I agree with this so much. Putting aside his creativity, there is actually a lot of traditionalism in his dancing and choreography (he can't help it, given his ballroom-champion parents).

I think Mark is also greatly influenced by his musicality and his looking at a dance as a whole picture, which requires a lot of thoughtfulness and attention to detail. Take for instance, his AT with Paige. Yeah, there were a number of props and yeah, they played up the whole apartment sex storyline, but each prop/element had a specific purpose and each had to be incorporated with specific timing to enhance the music and connect the actual AT content. So yeah, it's easy to just remember the props and the theme, but a lot of work went in to tying it all together successfully.

That's great news for Mark, katha. Though I personally wish we knew whether it came after or before DWTS decided not to have him this season.

Edited September 1, 2016 by calipiano81

[katha]

6 minutes ago, calipiano81 said:

That's great news for Mark, katha. Though I personally wish we knew whether it came after or before DWTS decided not to have him this season.

 

I'm pretty sure that this was Mark's call, now that the Broadway news is out. You don't stumble into a leading role on Broadway. He's probably been auditioning and putting his name out there for months, he must have been in tests and negotiations for some time. He wouldn't find a part like that in the few days DWTS have announced its cast.

Tbh, no matter the circumstances, perhaps it's time for Mark to move on. He's been doing it forever, he had a great season with Paige, and it's pretty obvious that he still likes the dancing, teaching and choreographing, but is tired of all the scripted drama that comes with the show.

[calipiano81]

I know it would probably be good for Mark to move on, but dangit, I'm selfish and I hate change! :P LOL. I have been watching and voting on DWTS 18 seasons (9 years!) straight with Mark, and having a favorite always heightens your interest and investment. DWTS is now a completely different show for me.

Edited September 1, 2016 by calipiano81

[McManda]

47 minutes ago, calipiano81 said:

So yeah, it's easy to just remember the props and the theme, but a lot of work went in to tying it all together successfully.

I don't doubt third or think it's not an art, but in the end if all I remember is the theme and not the dance itself ... does that make it a good dance?

[Uke]

4 minutes ago, McManda said:

I don't doubt third or think it's not an art, but in the end if all I remember is the theme and not the dance itself ... does that make it a good dance?

For this show, yes, I do think that makes it a good dance - emphasis on "for this show".  Something in the whole experience of the dance, whether it was emotion, production, music, images of moving through the music, if something made you remember it and have some kind of emotion about it (other than I "hate" that person or dance style), then I think it was a success. Most of us are not experts at ballroom and don't have an eye for dance style requirements or the details of technique - I know I'm certainly not. (I dvr while I watch so I can replay to catch details.) There are so many standard, no frills dances on the show (a show meant to be watched by non-experts of dance), that when you see something that stands out and makes you feel something, that's a success.   (On the pro dance circuit, of course there would be different standards and likely a different answer to your question.)

[simplyme]

28 minutes ago, McManda said:

I don't doubt third or think it's not an art, but in the end if all I remember is the theme and not the dance itself ... does that make it a good dance?

If I'm not covering my eyes and praying for it to end, watching in horror to see if someone is frantically flailed to death (probably Alison), or stabbing myself in the leg with a pencil to stay awake, it certainly ain't bad. After that, we're getting technical!