S08.E19: Tomfoolery

[Yours Truly]

16 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Carole never said "butt fucking".  She said something like what they were doing is illegal in several states.  I'm sure that's what Carole was implying, but she didn't crudely label it.

Lu seems to know she cheated.  Her cast mates seem to know she cheated.  Jacques seems to know she cheated. Lu admitted at the reunion that she had to apologize to Jacques and work on their relationship.   Yet it's still argued that since it wasn't on camera, no one knows. This isn't premium cable, we are not going to see sex acts.  If you put a person on trial with this circumstantial evidence and the defendant doesn't deny the crime, a jury is going to find them guilty.  I don't understand the need to argue against it.  I can't stand the parsing - there's no proof of P in V, he was probably too drunk for an erection, she was too drunk as a fifty year old to interest a man ......  She cheated.  Period.  Lu is not denying it.  Why should anyone else?

It frustrates me because I feel it's crossing into LVP territory.  LVP only repeatedly brought up Eileen's affair because she magnanimously wanted to help her remove the stigma.   When Brandi slapped her, LVP went on at length that no one has ever laid a hand on her.  Wait - she was actually in an abusive relationship where she was physically harmed.   But it's not an inconsistency!  Lisa actually meant that when Brandi slapped her, no other female co-star had ever laid hands on her.  I don't like sacred cows.

And yes, Sonja talked about being bent over with her head in the bushes.  But I think she meant "doggy style".  

I've ran around trying to cover up the evidence of a crime that didn't happen before too because had my boyfriend at the time known I was anywhere in the proximity of the goings ons I was in the presence of I would have still been in serious trouble. Just being where I was was a no no and would have had serious consequences so yeah I get trying to get stories straight even if nothing to the level of cheating happened.

Why was I acting that way? Well because I was guilty. Guilty of being somewhere and doing things my boyfriend would not have liked or condoned and made clear did not want me doing. So it's possible to not cheat and still be guilty of something.

Just giving an example as to why some may be a bit reserved when it comes to that particular accusation.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Yours Truly

[lunastartron]

22 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Carole never said "butt fucking".  She said something like what they were doing is illegal in several states.  I'm sure that's what Carole was implying, but she didn't crudely label it.

Lu seems to know she cheated.  Her cast mates seem to know she cheated.  Jacques seems to know she cheated. Lu admitted at the reunion that she had to apologize to Jacques and work on their relationship.   Yet it's still argued that since it wasn't on camera, no one knows. This isn't premium cable, we are not going to see sex acts.  If you put a person on trial with this circumstantial evidence and the defendant doesn't deny the crime, a jury is going to find them guilty.  I don't understand the need to argue against it.  I can't stand the parsing - there's no proof of P in V, he was probably too drunk for an erection, she was too drunk as a fifty year old to interest a man ......  She cheated.  Period.  Lu is not denying it.  Why should anyone else?

It frustrates me because I feel it's crossing into LVP territory.  LVP only repeatedly brought up Eileen's affair because she magnanimously wanted to help her remove the stigma.   When Brandi slapped her, LVP went on at length that no one has ever laid a hand on her.  Wait - she was actually in an abusive relationship where she was physically harmed.   But it's not an inconsistency!  Lisa actually meant that when Brandi slapped her, no other female co-star had ever laid hands on her.  I don't like sacred cows.

And yes, Sonja talked about being bent over with her head in the bushes.  But I think she meant "doggy style".  

Carole definitely said "butt fucking" in one of her confessionals. I specifically recall this because I liked her for much of season 5 and cringed when she used the term on screen.

[motorcitymom65]

2 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

??

Lu has always seemed to managed to make her way with or without a man.  He HW special outlined that particular trait of hers.

No, Lu has said something else entirely.

Last year, when they were in T&C, she gave such a beautiful speech. It was their first dinner, when Beth asked her when she had last had really great sex. She talked about the great sex she had had a couple of days before. She said that she was the happiest she had ever been. She got weepy, and talked of the fact that for the first time in her life, she wasn't relying on a man. She said that a man had always taken care of her, and that for the first time, she needed no man to take care of her. She felt strong and independent in a way she never had before.  I had never loved her more, or maybe any HW, in that moment. She was beautiful, strong, and sexual. It has stood out to me all season, as she makes somewhat of a fool of herself over a man that is not worthy of her. The other thing that stood out to me when she was making that speech was how happy everyone else was for her. They were cheering her on, and genuinely seemed delighted to see Lu so happy. 

[Mondrianyone]

Maybe that was the lovely moment that later inspired Bethenny to call her a plastic fuck doll who fucks everyone.  Let's hear it for sex-positive pronouncements!  ;o)

[zoeysmom]

19 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Carole never said "butt fucking".  She said something like what they were doing is illegal in several states.  I'm sure that's what Carole was implying, but she didn't crudely label it.

Lu seems to know she cheated.  Her cast mates seem to know she cheated.  Jacques seems to know she cheated. Lu admitted at the reunion that she had to apologize to Jacques and work on their relationship.   Yet it's still argued that since it wasn't on camera, no one knows. This isn't premium cable, we are not going to see sex acts.  If you put a person on trial with this circumstantial evidence and the defendant doesn't deny the crime, a jury is going to find them guilty.  I don't understand the need to argue against it.  I can't stand the parsing - there's no proof of P in V, he was probably too drunk for an erection, she was too drunk as a fifty year old to interest a man ......  She cheated.  Period.  Lu is not denying it.  Why should anyone else?

It frustrates me because I feel it's crossing into LVP territory.  LVP only repeatedly brought up Eileen's affair because she magnanimously wanted to help her remove the stigma.   When Brandi slapped her, LVP went on at length that no one has ever laid a hand on her.  Wait - she was actually in an abusive relationship where she was physically harmed.   But it's not an inconsistency!  Lisa actually meant that when Brandi slapped her, no other female co-star had ever laid hands on her.  I don't like sacred cows.

And yes, Sonja talked about being bent over with her head in the bushes.  But I think she meant "doggy style".  

Carole said illegal in 37 states, and then said "butt fucking", obviously the fucking was beeped.   Carole has apologized and again used the offensive words and laughed. 

You don't have to have photos of the sex act but without them and neither party confirming the trial would go nowhere.  Luann has denied they had sex.  It doesn't matter if we think she did.  Last time I checked going home with someone is not a sex act.

I guess I defend her because if I were in a similar position and brought someone home and did not have sex with that someone I would not want others substituting their opinion for the facts. I have had a man spend the night and not have sex with him.  They have accused Luann of having sex at the Boutique. I noticed Carole, maybe a little tired of having some friend say something, wanted absolute proof on Tom, before it was presented to Luann-good for her.  Bethenny's friend claimed Tom at midnight made out with the woman for an hour, then she said it was for two hours.  I personally would believe the photo, but I question two people making out for two hours in a bar.  I really question someone watching for two hours unless they are being paid to be there-as in a bartender or wait staff.

I agree about bringing up Eileen's affair-it was fake and nosey and LVP did a bad job of weighing the entertainment value over Eileen and Vince's feelings.  LVP's statement about Brandi, I was laboring under the impression it was more of the disrespect moment than physical abuse and words do mean something.  LVP should have been more clear, but we saw the slap.

[RedheadZombie]

I'm torn on the Carole is late issue.  On the one hand, I hate chronically late people, especially when they don't bother to tell me they're running late. I have family members like that and I've learned to lie about when they should arrive, and to add an hour when they claim to be "leaving now".  

On the other hand (in this situation only) - If I have told friends to leave without me and start dinner without me, they choose to wait, then they bundle into the SUV, close the door on me then bleat "where is Carole?", I'm going to be pretty pissed when I alone take the heat for arriving late. 

Jules kinda sort of defended Carole in her TH, but it was really to snark on Beth. 

38 minutes ago, ryebread said:

All these theories are inventions.  I agree with Yours Truly on that.  It could have went down like how you say.  But I think Tom loving Lu is also an invention.  A huge one.  It doesn't matter if she's the first one he put a ring on.  You don't cheat on someone you "love" the day before your engagement party.  Especially when you know she's acting giddy and over the moon.  To cheat on her so publically is devastation and humiliation, certainly not love. 

The idea of anybody - male or female - engaged, married, single - in a bar, drunk off their ass making out with someone, kind of turns my stomach. I'm not even a Countess and that seems a little low rent - especially for the over 50 set.  

But if it were my fiancé the day before he flew to Florida for our engagement party?? No wonder Lu felt like she wanted to throw up.  Kudos to her if she can move past that.  My money says she doesn't and within 6 months some sympathetic guy with a luscious head full of hair will take his place on her arm.  I think Lu is going to show Tom a thing or two....

The theories ARE inventions.  I've learned two more since my last post on the subject.  1.  Tom was set up 2.  Bethenny hired an impersonator to appear to be Tom.  

If anyone is taking requests - how about the next theory be that Tom was kidnapped by aliens, a doppelgänger was left behind to commit amoral acts, and when Tom was returned, he experienced retrograde amnesia, therefore cannot properly explain what happened.

25 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

I thought that if Heather noticed the ring so did Luann imo. 

I think that info came from Kristen - at least on camera.  She stated the houseman told her.  Lu didn't seem a bit surprised.  She shrugged as if to say - who cares?  Not my problem.  With laughing back up by Sonja. 

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

It may not be anyone's right to demand the facts, but if that was in fact what happened I would be offering up those particular facts pretty damn quickly.

I would much rather people know we had a spat than think the man I was marrying had so little respect and regard for me that he sat in a bar openly tongue kissing some chick the night before our engagement party.

Except that Luann has never gone into details about her relationships, either to confirm or deny anything.

42 minutes ago, ryebread said:

All these theories are inventions.  I agree with Yours Truly on that.  It could have went down like how you say.  But I think Tom loving Lu is also an invention.  A huge one.  It doesn't matter if she's the first one he put a ring on.  You don't cheat on someone you "love" the day before your engagement party.  Especially when you know she's acting giddy and over the moon.  To cheat on her so publically is devastation and humiliation, certainly not love. 

The idea of anybody - male or female - engaged, married, single - in a bar, drunk off their ass making out with someone, kind of turns my stomach. I'm not even a Countess and that seems a little low rent - especially for the over 50 set.  

But if it were my fiancé the day before he flew to Florida for our engagement party?? No wonder Lu felt like she wanted to throw up.  Kudos to her if she can move past that.  My money says she doesn't and within 6 months some sympathetic guy with a luscious head full of hair will take his place on her arm.  I think Lu is going to show Tom a thing or two....

If they had had a fight/spat right before a "filmed" engagement party, it might go a long way in explaining her odd, OTT behavior before he showed up to the party.

As to "low rent" behavior, that is part and parcel of these HW shows no matter how old a HW/SO is. LOL

38 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

I think that she kissed a married dude on vacay and cavalierly declared that stuff happened.

But she wasn't kissing any of their men in T&C and she hasn't slept with any of them either.

29 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

I thought that if Heather noticed the ring so did Luann imo. 

Heather never saw Luann's hookup in T&C, the house manager told Kristen he was supposedly married. Luann brushed it off there but at the reunion she said she did know he was married and that they talked about their marriages and their divorces. So....maybe Luann assumed he was separated/divorcing his wife or she was just to drunk to care as she wasn't the one cheating, he was. Who knows? LOL

[zoeysmom]

10 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Except that Luann has never gone into details about her relationships, either to confirm or deny anything.

If they had had a fight/spat right before a "filmed" engagement party, it might go a long way in explaining her odd, OTT behavior before he showed up to the party.

As to "low rent" behavior, that is part and parcel of these HW shows no matter how old a HW/SO is. LOL

But she wasn't kissing any of their men in T&C and she hasn't slept with any of them either.

Heather never saw Luann's hookup in T&C, the house manager told Kristen he was supposedly married. Luann brushed it off there but at the reunion she said she did know he was married and that they talked about their marriages and their divorces. So....maybe Luann assumed he was separated/divorcing his wife or she was just to drunk to care as she wasn't the one cheating, he was. Who knows? LOL

In any event, it was a really dumb thing for Bethenny to bring up when she was sleeping with a married man. 

In RHOBH, you have the opposite problem, Brandi claiming she was "fucking" the 23 year old and him denying it to LVP, with the added insult, she was too drunk.  Come to think of it sounds a little Sonja-ish.

[Bronzedog]

I hate when people are late.  Hate it!  My brother and sil generally don't even leave home until the time they are supposed to be somewhere.  It's not unusual for them to be 4 hours late.  So, regarding them, I guess I won't be seeing you since obviously you think you're doing me a favor.  I don't mean occasionally being a little late, I mean being chronically late like Carole apparently is.  That's just 1). Thinking her time is more important than yours; 2).  Being passive aggressive and letting you know she's in control, and, 3). Total disrespect.  Completely on Bethenny's side there.

[straightshooter]

On 8/18/2016 at 6:37 AM, Pollock said:

Not all relashionships are binar. You don't have to believe in monogamy and some people don't. 

Lu should just say/admit that they are marrying for companionship (you enjoy each other presence in your life and want to make a commitment) with an understanding that both of them do whatever they want sexually as long as it's kept safe and private. Which in that case is an epic fail of course but hey, Tom's learning to be caught up in Bravo's web. I'm guessing he's already better at it. It's not well judge as far as couple relationships go but those people exist and when it's between consenting adults, it should be accepted and there's nothing to be ashamed of imho. LuAnn could be a factor in some revolution, who knows?! :)

After reading all your comments, I passed on the last episode, and I never did that, for any RH shows, ever. It's my drug. I think I'm out for this one too and maybe the one after, depending on what you'll say here. I'll come back for the reunion. It's just not fun anymore. Bethenny, whom I liked before (but I have never seen Ever After and all that...), really sucked the life out of it. I don't know. I liked the bitchiness of the previous seasons, the inane fights for bullshit reasons, but it got way too personal. Gorgas/Giudices level of personal and that shit was dark. We got from fighting because it's their job to "I'm trying to ruin your life". I don't care how much realness Beth wants, and as much as I agree I'd really like to see more of their real relationships with other people, the socialite life and all that, but trashing everybody, trying to burn lives and reputations to the ground, all the while you are applauded by the rest of the coven you're terrorizing? I don't know... I'm uneasy watching, not just moking them for their pretenses anymore. It sucks.

This was in response to part of my post, and I think my point was misunderstood.  I am not judging anyone's choice to have the type of relationship/marriage which best suits the needs of each partner.  To each his own, as far as I am concerned.  

I just feel that it appears that Lu is a walking contradiction when it comes to the terms by which she and Tom have chosen to handle theirs.   Judging by what little we've seen of her reaction when Bethenny tells her that she has news about Tom that she feels Lu needs to know, she was heartbroken by the simple fact that there was anything to tell at all.  The way we've seen it edited so far, without even knowing the details of Bethenny's super secret info, she was quite upset.  We later see her on the phone, speaking in a tone that suggests both hurt and anger, about the fact that Tom did this less than discreetly and made a fool out of her.   

This leads me to believe that quite possibly, Lu has agreed to terms of which she may not be in favor, but went along with them in order to keep Tom.  I question the motivation behind why she might do such a thing, if that is, in fact, what has happened.  

As much as she bugs me, I am sad for her.  My gut tells me that she is settling for something that could repeatedly be a source of pain for the sake of hanging on to this man.  How totally disrespectful of him to do what he did shortly after becoming engaged!  Maybe she agreed to it and thought she could handle it, but when push came to shove, she realized she couldn't?   I don't know, but the fact that she wasn't big on an "open relationship" with Alex tells me that it's probably not her thing.    I truly hope that it isn't desperation and an attempt to hang on to him no matter the cost.  If so, she sure is shortchanging herself.   

Another possibility is that she did not want these women knowing that they have an open relationship, knowing how she practically needed collars and leashes for Sonja and Ramona when they were in his presence.  I wouldn't put anything past either of them if they knew - it would be like open season..... 

[notnowimbusy]

I'm so over Bethenny.   She doesn't talk, she either lectures, or monologues.    I can only image when her daughter is 8 or 9, and forgets to turn in her homework.   (rapid fire) "What I had (insert name of any assistant) pack it in your backpack, all you had to do was take it out.  Didn't you look in there? How could you forget.  It was right there.  How could you miss it.  There's no excuse.  Now I have to have (insert name of assistant) call the school because you couldn't bother to look inside your backpack.  Why did we go to the trouble of putting it in there if you don't take it out"    

I don't believe that rapid fire mouth of hers turns off when she's around her daughter - it's too ingrained into her personality.  Just as quickly as she called Dorinda the village idiot, I'm sure there will be equally as sharp barbs aimed at her daughter.  

[JakeyJokes]

Quote

 

I am the Carole of my peer group. Always last to get there (Never diagnosed but I have ADD/OCD components to my personality). But I always tell my friends to meet me there, and it wasn't clear why Doris, Lu, and Jules were still with Carole. Bethenny in her TH's said that Carole is habitually late, and I think she had just reached her limit.

Also, being late to a dinner is more egregious than being late to meet your friends at the club.

[snarts]

To me, it boils down to this:  if you're not willing to put your relationships on camera for discussion, then you have no right to comment on others.  Both Bethenny & Ramona have clearly stated that they keep their dating lives off camera, yet they're both deeply critical/involved with the relationships of Luann & Dorinda.  That's bullshit.

Further, neither are well-meaning concerned friends.  They're both petty ass bitter bitches that hate to see other people happy.  

Finally...again, in my book, while putting your business out there for public consumption on a reality TV show earns you the right to comment on your co-stars shit, it's still bad form to judge other relationships.  It's truly up to the individuals involved.  They make up the rules, the boundaries, the dealer breakers,  People would be whole a lot happier if they expended their time & energy on finding their own version of a good relationship.

[zoeysmom]

Oh Sonja, ah yi yi, so what is up with you?  What men ever came between Sonja and Luann?  http://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/sonja-morgan-luann-de-lesseps-tom-drama-explained  I believe Luann wrote her off when Sonja went down the facialist make believe stories path.  I guess things never change, Sonja makes stuff up to create an aura about her.   Good news is Sonja is still mad at Tom.  Now he was her drinking buddy.  Since she has given up drinking, I guess there is no need for Tom anymore.

I have always wondered how Luann feels about all this.  I don't know how Luann gets when she is with a man because I don't see where Sonja plays a very vital role in anyone on the show's life.

Edited August 20, 2016 by zoeysmom

[WireWrap]

2 hours ago, straightshooter said:

This was in response to part of my post, and I think my point was misunderstood.  I am not judging anyone's choice to have the type of relationship/marriage which best suits the needs of each partner.  To each his own, as far as I am concerned.  

I just feel that it appears that Lu is a walking contradiction when it comes to the terms by which she and Tom have chosen to handle theirs.   Judging by what little we've seen of her reaction when Bethenny tells her that she has news about Tom that she feels Lu needs to know, she was heartbroken by the simple fact that there was anything to tell at all.  The way we've seen it edited so far, without even knowing the details of Bethenny's super secret info, she was quite upset.  We later see her on the phone, speaking in a tone that suggests both hurt and anger, about the fact that Tom did this less than discreetly and made a fool out of her.   

This leads me to believe that quite possibly, Lu has agreed to terms of which she may not be in favor, but went along with them in order to keep Tom.  I question the motivation behind why she might do such a thing, if that is, in fact, what has happened.  

As much as she bugs me, I am sad for her.  My gut tells me that she is settling for something that could repeatedly be a source of pain for the sake of hanging on to this man.  How totally disrespectful of him to do what he did shortly after becoming engaged!  Maybe she agreed to it and thought she could handle it, but when push came to shove, she realized she couldn't?   I don't know, but the fact that she wasn't big on an "open relationship" with Alex tells me that it's probably not her thing.    I truly hope that it isn't desperation and an attempt to hang on to him no matter the cost.  If so, she sure is shortchanging herself.   

Another possibility is that she did not want these women knowing that they have an open relationship, knowing how she practically needed collars and leashes for Sonja and Ramona when they were in his presence.  I wouldn't put anything past either of them if they knew - it would be like open season..... 

We only saw a snippet of that phone call and don't know what all she said to him as of yet and I really doubt that they will air the whole conversation. As for Bethenny's nasty TH comment, I put no stock in her telling the whole truth about Luann, Dorinda or Jules, I suspect she conveniently leaves out pertinent information that could/would change the entire scene.

Just 1 more thought. What Tom did to Luann, kissing/making out with another woman in a public place, is "Insult added to Injury", which may explain her anger of being publicly humiliated by not just him but of this all being filmed for the show!  Hurt= injury, Insult=public humiliation  

[Bebecat]

Somehow by default, I think Luann is my fav now. Saying this with great reluctance.

[sasha206]

3 hours ago, lunastartron said:

Carole definitely said "butt fucking" in one of her confessionals. I specifically recall this because I liked her for much of season 5 and cringed when she used the term on screen.

She did.  I remember thinking what an ass.  No pun intended.

[prettybird]

Hey producers, your panty lines are showing!

A couple of obvious shenanigans this ep:

The second group coming late to dinner was solely so the first group could talk about Lu. If they were all together, they couldn't discuss it and the big story wouldn't get very much air time. I suspect Beth and Carole at least were in on it. Their "fight" was staged as a bonus to dispel their cliquiness. 

The sandbar drama was another contrived situation. I do believe that Romona turned her nose up at the outing, but the second event was obviously pre planned since they mentioned the name like 12 times. (I still don't remember what it was though, ha!). Poor Doris was bent out of shape at half the girls ditching, but she didn't plan that event anymore than I did. She didn't have the slightest idea what (the) sandbar was. I think she may have thought it was a bar, with sand. 

The silmultaneous Tom phone calls? Really?

Lastly, Beth pulled out her best acting chops to pretend that she wasn't going to wait to the end of the episode, oops I mean trip, to tell Lu. That was all orchestrated in advance. I do believe that she wasn't counting on Lu's reaction. She was hoping for anger and outrage. I think she felt awful when she realized she was devastating Lu. 

[zoeysmom]

32 minutes ago, prettybird said:

Hey producers, your panty lines are showing!

A couple of obvious shenanigans this ep:

The second group coming late to dinner was solely so the first group could talk about Lu. If they were all together, they couldn't discuss it and the big story wouldn't get very much air time. I suspect Beth and Carole at least were in on it. Their "fight" was staged as a bonus to dispel their cliquiness. 

The sandbar drama was another contrived situation. I do believe that Romona turned her nose up at the outing, but the second event was obviously pre planned since they mentioned the name like 12 times. (I still don't remember what it was though, ha!). Poor Doris was bent out of shape at half the girls ditching, but she didn't plan that event anymore than I did. She didn't have the slightest idea what (the) sandbar was. I think she may have thought it was a bar, with sand. 

The silmultaneous Tom phone calls? Really?

Lastly, Beth pulled out her best acting chops to pretend that she wasn't going to wait to the end of the episode, oops I mean trip, to tell Lu. That was all orchestrated in advance. I do believe that she wasn't counting on Lu's reaction. She was hoping for anger and outrage. I think she felt awful when she realized she was devastating Lu. 

I call BS on that whole scenario.  It was 11:00 o'clock at night, Bethenny didn't leave a message and if she truly wanted to get ahold of him, she would have sent text him a text.

They wanted Luann to make as many happy comments as possible, and I am thoroughly convinced half of what we hear from Luann has been edited to appear as if every single conversation she has is about how happy she is.  Of course if you sum up the conversations for the last two and half episodes, there has been some comments about being late, the usual Ramona is being self-absorbed, dancing and Jules getting on stage and 30 seconds introducing Mr. Miami and his sad little car.  The rest of the conversations have been about Tom and Luann, Luann, or Tom.   

[zulualpha]

4 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Tom gave a statement that reflected your sentiment.  http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/luann-de-lesseps-fiance-relationship-issues-wedding-plans/  You and Tom have like minds.

I don't know if I would consider what Tom did as far as drunkenly making out in a bar as full on cheating.  As was stated upstream, a lot of men wouldn't.  I know men that don't think getting a blow job is cheating.  Luckily I'm not married to any of them but they sure exist.  The question really is what was Tom doing drinking to the point of being drunk in a bar when he's engaged.  At that point he's easy prey for a beautiful model who was also probably drunk and wanted to make out.  Who the hell knows?  Anyway it's not the crime of the century and Tom and Luann's business shouldn't have been broadcast on national tv with the clear intent of trying to humiliate Luann. I think that's a good part of the reason Luann is so upset next episode, she asked him what he did that Wednesday night at the Regency and he gave an acceptable (to her) explanation whatever it was and then Luann said yeah well thanks a lot because now my "friends" have made me look like an ass on national tv .

[sasha206]

41 minutes ago, prettybird said:

 

Lastly, Beth pulled out her best acting chops to pretend that she wasn't going to wait to the end of the episode, oops I mean trip, to tell Lu. That was all orchestrated in advance. I do believe that she wasn't counting on Lu's reaction. She was hoping for anger and outrage. I think she felt awful when she realized she was devastating Lu. 

I think she was still acting after Lu's reaction.  I don't buy for one minute she felt awful about that.  Of course, I think Lu was acting as well.  I think they all pretty much are acting this year with the exception of maybe Jules and Dorinda.  

[Bronzedog]

I completely agree that both Luanne and Bethenny were acting in that last scene.  1).  Luanne didn't look at any pictures and Bethenny never explained what she knew about Tom, and, 2).  Bethenny doesn't give a shit about Luanne and is not a particularly sensitive person.  She would NEVER be that upset over Luanne's reaction to what Luanne was never told in the first place.

[Knuckles]

1 hour ago, prettybird said:

I think she felt awful when she realized she was devastating Lu. 

I think she felt awful when she realized she was exposing herself as a heartless bitch, and that her storyline had just hit the toilet.

[zoeysmom]

21 minutes ago, zulualpha said:

I don't know if I would consider what Tom did as far as drunkenly making out in a bar as full on cheating.  As was stated upstream, a lot of men wouldn't.  I know men that don't think getting a blow job is cheating.  Luckily I'm not married to any of them but they sure exist.  The question really is what was Tom doing drinking to the point of being drunk in a bar when he's engaged.  At that point he's easy prey for a beautiful model who was also probably drunk and wanted to make out.  Who the hell knows?  Anyway it's not the crime of the century and Tom and Luann's business shouldn't have been broadcast on national tv with the clear intent of trying to humiliate Luann. I think that's a good part of the reason Luann is so upset next episode, she asked him what he did that Wednesday night at the Regency and he gave an acceptable (to her) explanation whatever it was and then Luann said yeah well thanks a lot because now my "friends" have made me look like an ass on national tv .

I always think Hugh Grant had the best response in the world to his arrest for public oral sex with  Divine Brown, when Jay Leno asked, "What the hell were you thinking?"  The pertinent part of his response, "I think you know in life what is a good thing to do and what is a bad thing to do, and I did a bad thing.  And there you have it."   

The David Letterman is pretty interesting at well: 

To make this all the more real Andy mentions Luann having dinner with Hugh (and two others) and Luann shared some tequila and kisses with Hugh.

[jumper sage]

4 hours ago, straightshooter said:

 We later see her on the phone, speaking in a tone that suggests both hurt and anger, about the fact that Tom did this less than discreetly and made a fool out of her.   

Ok so I did hear her say something like, "How could he be so stupid?"  You don't say that and not know.

4 hours ago, notnowimbusy said:

I'm so over Bethenny.   She doesn't talk, she either lectures, or monologues.    I can only image when her daughter is 8 or 9, and forgets to turn in her homework.   (rapid fire) "What I had (insert name of any assistant) pack it in your backpack, all you had to do was take it out.  Didn't you look in there? How could you forget.  It was right there.  How could you miss it.  There's no excuse.  Now I have to have (insert name of assistant) call the school because you couldn't bother to look inside your backpack.  Why did we go to the trouble of putting it in there if you don't take it out"    

 

OMG!  I am flashing back to my boy, who has a pretty high IQ and nearly flunked every.single.year.  He refused to turn in homework.  He would do it, polish it up, show everyone in the family, take it to school and NOT turn it in.  Why?  We would ask.  He told us it's an insult to be asked to see it.  [hand smacks head] 

I have to say we play a Dorinda drinking game.  We all agree that we know she is full on tilt when she starts waving her hands around.  We were all pretty drunk at the end of this episode.

Edited August 20, 2016 by jumper sage

[zoeysmom]

3 minutes ago, jumper sage said:

Ok so I did hear her say something like, "How could he be so stupid?"  You don't say that and not know.

OMG!  I am flashing back to my boy, who has a pretty high IQ and nearly flunked every.single.year.  He refused to turn in homework.  He would do it, polish it up, show everyone in the family, take it to school and NOT turn it in.  Why?  We would ask.  He told us it's an insult to be asked to see it.  [hand smacks head] 

I have to say we play a Dorinda drinking game.  We all agree that we know she is full on tilt when she starts waving her hands around.  We were all pretty drunk at the end of this episode.

Actually Ramona said the same thing when she found out about Tom-I think it is a pretty natural response to finding out someone to use an indelicate phrase, "stepped on their dick", it is not like the woman is going to say, "how could you be so unfeeling, so uncaring?", you pretty well lead with the obvious.

[ryebread]

4 hours ago, WireWrap said:

As to "low rent" behavior, that is part and parcel of these HW shows no matter how old a HW/SO is. LOL

To me, a couple of 17 year olds making out in public is stupid.  But a 50 year old man and a woman doing it, is just gross. And weird. And definitely low rent.

Being engaged to the singer of Money Can't Buy You Class, can't buy you class.

Carole listed several bars, besides the Regency, that she knew Tom frequented.  Nothing against people who go to bars often, but an engaged guy, that age, still running around getting drunk and swapping spit with someone who isn't his fiancé is just a dirt bag.  When I was young and hitting the bars in NYC, I knew this type.  This is possibly why I can't give him a break, here.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Chic. C'est la vie. C'est bon.  C'est bon.

What the F does that mean?

Sophisticated. That's life. It's good. It's good.

Is that correct? I took French in high school, a long time ago.  

[zoeysmom]

17 minutes ago, ryebread said:

To me, a couple of 17 year olds making out in public is stupid.  But a 50 year old man and a woman doing it, is just gross. And weird. And definitely low rent.

Being engaged to the singer of Money Can't Buy You Class, can't buy you class.

Carole listed several bars, besides the Regency, that she knew Tom frequented.  Nothing against people who go to bars often, but an engaged guy, that age, still running around getting drunk and swapping spit with someone who isn't his fiancé is just a dirt bag.  When I was young and hitting the bars in NYC, I knew this type.  This is possibly why I can't give him a break, here.

The aging lothario lounge lizards are alive and well in NYC, heck that is how he found Ramona.  How often do we see these women hit the clubs?  Ramona dance?  I applauded Dorinda for her comment to Ramona. . .it is getting old and tired.  Just as they say Luann's, I am happy, is tiring, I would think Ramona always (and she did it when she was married) always looking for a dance floor and acting stupid is getting old.  She has lapped 50 and is now 60.  Time to reel it in.  Either learn to dance or hang up your dancing shoes, hair extensions and macramé dresses. 

I hope Luann expresses your sentiment about Tom staying out of the bars. 

I agree by PDA, I can't imagine it went on for 1-2 hours, without coming up for air.  Totally low brow. 

[beaker73]

So when Bethenny was at lunch with Ramona and Sonja pretending to not know what she was going to do about MakeoutGate, did she say to them, "I know the girl and I know Lu"? Did I mishear? Not saying Tom was set up, but maybe that's how she got those pics.  The girl's friend or someone took them and the girl texted them to Beth? 

Just when I think I can't be anymore embarrassed for Ramona another episode airs and there she is acting the fool.  Another macramé dress? Dorinda's I'll fitting Pucci dress? Those low rent extensions? And, please, pretending to come home after staying out all night? No one was hittin' that the night before...

[BlackMamba]

Someone already mentioned this but yes the end of this episode smells like Bethenny got her text on the Tom pics from good buddy Andy Cohen! 

[breezy424]

Oh let's face it, the proclamations of Tom 'making out' for an hour and now two, came from Bethenny Frankel, the great exaggerator.  And she supposedly is getting this information from a source who refuses to publicly acknowledge it.   I take it all with a grain of salt.  Beth has two, maybe three pictures (her words) of this.  Remember this is the woman who had the WORST CHILDHOOD EVER, was bleeding from every part of her body, the worst divorce ever and was lost at sea even though the coast guard told the sailboat owner to call Tow Boat because they were fine. 

And next episode we have Beth questioning how Lu is supposed to react to her fiance's supposed cheating.  Like Beth has a masters in how someone is supposed to react to situations. 

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, ryebread said:

To me, a couple of 17 year olds making out in public is stupid.  But a 50 year old man and a woman doing it, is just gross. And weird. And definitely low rent.

Being engaged to the singer of Money Can't Buy You Class, can't buy you class.

Carole listed several bars, besides the Regency, that she knew Tom frequented.  Nothing against people who go to bars often, but an engaged guy, that age, still running around getting drunk and swapping spit with someone who isn't his fiancé is just a dirt bag.  When I was young and hitting the bars in NYC, I knew this type.  This is possibly why I can't give him a break, here.

I don't like PDA either, at any age, teens thru Sr.'s but it happens. Low rent, just like a 50 year old woman that likes to expose herself on the dance floor and kiss any/all that can't escape her grasp, like a woman that screams slut, whore and plastic F doll at another woman at a Christmas Party, like a woman that gets drunk and spits on anyone near her as she waves her arms around like a helicopter, like a woman that slides up to a very drunk man to pry embarrassing info about her frenemy then attacks the SO of someone she call a close friend, the list could go on. All these HWs show themselves to be "low rent" as do most of their SO's. And hey, at least they weren't having sex at the table in the middle of a bar/restaurant because that does happen in real life as well.

For me, I just can't go by what has been said about Tom/other woman so far because the only source we have is Bethenny and she is not reliable by a long shot. I will hear Luann's response/explanation and most likely the truth will fall somewhere in the middle.

As for Carole's bar list, does she know this first hand because she/Adam also frequent them or is she getting her info second/third hand from say.........her bf, Bethenny? Are these places just bars or are they restaurant/bars where they have/serve good food as well and where lots of business dinners take place or are they dives? IMO, there are still too many questions left unanswered about Tom overall and we really haven't gotten to see/know him from the few minutes he has appeared on the show.

[Knuckles]

I think it was a set-up by Bravo. They've been editing Lu so that all she says is "I'm so happy, I'm in love" and deleting anything else she might have said. And who better than Andy to hire some woman to tail Tom, wait till he has had a few drinks or more, and then plant herself on him? And of course he sent the pictures to his bestie, Bethy. Without his help, she has no story, except her fibroids, and how exciting is that. This is the Andy Cohen show, and being a dirt-bag is his m.o.

And who took the pictures, anyway? And sent them to Andy? Had to be someone he paid.

[MsDiva2007]

I question the timing of Bethenny's texting friend. These ladies are to old for this low class high school behavior. These women are so pressed because Lu is happy its killing them all. Lu and only Lu knows what she has with Tom. I believe Bethenny was expecting to blow Lu's relationship to hell and see her fall. Lu though is a survivor she took the hit and she is still standing. Ramona, Sonja and Carole I am sure are seething with fury that Lu is still with her man!

In regards to Bethenny having friends. Sure she does while they are convenient once they out live it they are done!

[zoeysmom]

3 hours ago, Knuckles said:

I think it was a set-up by Bravo. They've been editing Lu so that all she says is "I'm so happy, I'm in love" and deleting anything else she might have said. And who better than Andy to hire some woman to tail Tom, wait till he has had a few drinks or more, and then plant herself on him? And of course he sent the pictures to his bestie, Bethy. Without his help, she has no story, except her fibroids, and how exciting is that. This is the Andy Cohen show, and being a dirt-bag is his m.o.

And who took the pictures, anyway? And sent them to Andy? Had to be someone he paid.

Andy for the last month or so on his show has been telling every guest that the last three, then two episodes of RHONY were epic, and how great they were, blah, blah.  There were times he would show the clip and flat affect from the guests.  Not once did the soulless bastard ever say anything about how hurt and humiliated Luann was.  The guy needs to temper his enthusiasm for pain and humiliation instead of reward and encourage it. 

In RH speak whoever got the pictures and took out the stopwatch to time the kissing, making out session did come up short-do we know if Tom and Miss Magic Lips left together?   I don't think it is a private detective or anything following Tom, but I will say Tom and his favorite watering holes, not all the regulars who claim to be your friend are. 

4 hours ago, WireWrap said:

For me, I just can't go by what has been said about Tom/other woman so far because the only source we have is Bethenny and she is not reliable by a long shot. I will hear Luann's response/explanation and most likely the truth will fall somewhere in the middle.

As for Carole's bar list, does she know this first hand because she/Adam also frequent them or is she getting her info second/third hand from say.........her bf, Bethenny? Are these places just bars or are they restaurant/bars where they have/serve good food as well and where lots of business dinners take place or are they dives? IMO, there are still too many questions left unanswered about Tom overall and we really haven't gotten to see/know him from the few minutes he has appeared on the show.

Adam doesn't really drink and I can't see he and Carole frequenting the bars, that are hang outs for people his parents' age.  Sorry but I just don't see it.  The Regency where Tom was busted is close to Central Park and has two lounges  https://www.loewshotels.com/regency-hotel/dining/restaurant  I think the serve food in the lounge not in the lobby and breakfast too.  The one where he met Luann has a very nice restaurant, Luann frequents is a Jean-Georges restaurant,

[Diane Mars]

6 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Chic. C'est la vie. C'est bon.  C'est bon.

What the F does that mean?

Sophisticated. That's life. It's good. It's good.

Is that correct? I took French in high school, a long time ago.  

I'd more translate it as :

Wheeee ! That's life ! And that feels sooo good, sooo good !

("Chic", in French, is also an interjection full of happiness ! (= +/- Wheeeeee !). "C'est bon" means "that's good", like for something you're eating, you're correct, but it's also used in a sense of full accomplishment, quite an orgasmic one ;) )

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

11 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

The artist did a painting for Bethenny to give to Jason as a wedding present.  The monstrosity she has in her NYC apartment is also a Britto.  I find his work meh-loud like she is.  I think it is time she move on to a new artist.  I have met him and have a signed Absolut vodka bottle from him.  Years ago Absolut use to commission artists to paint their bottles as part of an ad campaign.  He is a successful commercial artist.

Is it true (if you know) as I read somewhere that  the pronunciation of Britto is Bree-oh not Brit-toe as Beth-hinny (ha) stated it? 

[njbchlover]

15 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

. 

The theories ARE inventions.  I've learned two more since my last post on the subject.  1.  Tom was set up 2.  Bethenny hired an impersonator to appear to be Tom.  

If anyone is taking requests - how about the next theory be that Tom was kidnapped by aliens, a doppelgänger was left behind to commit amoral acts, and when Tom was returned, he experienced retrograde amnesia, therefore cannot properly explain what happened.

 

Regarding all the Tom theories - my theory is that he was "roofied" - not enough to make him pass out, but just enough to make him behave irresponsibly and not remember it.   Just kidding here - I really think he was drunk and stupid, and someone just happened to catch a few photos.  Do I think there may have been some canoodling going on - yes.  Do I think he was having a full-on, high-school makeout session for two hours in the corner of the Regency bar - NO!!  I mean, come on - the guy may have been a hound, and he may have slept his way through every available female on the UES, but I don't think he's altogether stupid - plus, he presumably has an apartment (isn't it a penthouse?), or he has enough money to rent a room at the Regency - Why have a two hour makeout session in the bar when he could take a quick cab (or elevator) to somewhere more private, without prying eyes and cell phone cameras.

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

Is it true (if you know) as I read somewhere that  the pronunciation of Britto is Bree-oh not Brit-toe as Beth-hinny (ha) stated it? 

You would be correct, she mispronounced his name.  That's what friends are for.

[NewDigs]

1 hour ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

Is it true (if you know) as I read somewhere that  the pronunciation of Britto is Bree-oh not Brit-toe as Beth-hinny (ha) stated it? 

Here's how he pronounces it. More of a bree-toh. Like Cheeto. The intro seems long but he says his name almost as soon as he's in frame.

 

[sasha206]

19 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Carole never said "butt fucking".  She said something like what they were doing is illegal in several states.  I'm sure that's what Carole was implying, but she didn't crudely label it.

 

What she actually said was:

 

"I mean, I don’t wanna say butt fucking because that’s just so rude…"

[sasha206]

I don't believe that Tom and Luann are anything but a business relationship.  He gets fame from her -- he's been apparently craving that for a long time.  Perhaps Lu was the first somewhat respectable one his parents would be okay with him entering a relationship with.  Lu gets a storyline.  I love Lu but I just don't believe she's found soulmate in that guy.  

[film noire]

Always a good look when Bethenny gleefully cackles about hurt headed someone's way, and by her own hand.

[WireWrap]

12 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

I don't believe that Tom and Luann are anything but a business relationship.  He gets fame from her -- he's been apparently craving that for a long time.  Perhaps Lu was the first somewhat respectable one his parents would be okay with him entering a relationship with.  Lu gets a storyline.  I love Lu but I just don't believe she's found soulmate in that guy.  

Honest question here, How did you come to this conclusion, "He gets fame from her -- he's been apparently craving that for a long time"? He was a blip on the show it's first season, about 9 years ago, for less than a couple of minutes, if that. He has never been seen out with Sonja in the 10 years she claims she has been with him, let alone on camera with her. He went out on a few dates with Ramona but again, was never filmed "dating" her. Now at present, he has been on the show this season a handful of times, and has not even spoken all that much on camera. On top of all that, he hasn't tried to create drama (aka/fights/drunken behavior) on camera to keep the cameras focused on him, (ahem....John). So how does one come to the conclusion that he is seeking "fame" when he didn't go for it when dating/seeing/bonking Ramona/Sonja, and that "fame" is his main reason for being with Luann and not love?

[sasha206]

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

Honest question here, How did you come to this conclusion, "He gets fame from her -- he's been apparently craving that for a long time"? He was a blip on the show it's first season, about 9 years ago, for less than a couple of minutes, if that. He has never been seen out with Sonja in the 10 years she claims she has been with him, let alone on camera with her. He went out on a few dates with Ramona but again, was never filmed "dating" her. Now at present, he has been on the show this season a handful of times, and has not even spoken all that much on camera. On top of all that, he hasn't tried to create drama (aka/fights/drunken behavior) on camera to keep the cameras focused on him, (ahem....John). So how does one come to the conclusion that he is seeking "fame" when he didn't go for it when dating/seeing/bonking Ramona/Sonja, and that "fame" is his main reason for being with Luann and not love?

Well, admittedly I'm making that assumption because he's been on blips and dated Ramona and supposedly Sonja.  He's hanging around that circle if you are to believe Ramona and Sonja, which leads me to believe he's attracted to reality stars and finally was able to worm his way into episodes as a plot line.  I think Ramona is so bat shit crazy, that didn't work.  Sonja is a fuck he probably was embarrassed by so he knew that wouldn't work.  Moves onto Lu, who is attractive, smart, elegant, and probably parent-approved. 

If he's already cheating on her during their very short courtship, then I don't that it's for love.  Or he's not THAT in love.  He's not "we're soulmate" love.  I mean, most men in the early stages of a relationship when they are in love and want to get married manage to keep their dicks from wandering.  This is supposed to be their "can't get enough of each other" stage.  

Anyway, that's just my speculation.  It's he's in it for love, dude needs to get some therapy to find out why so early in the relationship he's playing tonsil hockey with another woman after one rocky patch.

Edited August 20, 2016 by sasha206

[WireWrap]

22 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Well, admittedly I'm making that assumption because he's been on blips and dated Ramona and supposedly Sonja.  He's hanging around that circle if you are to believe Ramona and Sonja, which leads me to believe he's attracted to reality stars and finally was able to worm his way into episodes as a plot line.  I think Ramona is so bat shit crazy, that didn't work.  Sonja is a fuck he probably was embarrassed by so he knew that wouldn't work.  Moves onto Lu, who is attractive, smart, elegant, and probably parent-approved. 

If he's already cheating on her during their very short courtship, then I don't that it's for love.  Or he's not THAT in love.  He's not "we're soulmate" love.  I mean, most men in the early stages of a relationship when they are in love and want to get married manage to keep their dicks from wandering.  This is supposed to be their "can't get enough of each other" stage.  

The UES is like a small town, and like small towns, they go to bars/restaurants close to home/where they/their friends live. He described meeting Luann as having an asteroid hitting him, I think he fell hard for Luann just as she did him.

As for him cheating, although I consider kissing/making out with another woman cheating, sadly, most guys (and some women) do not and no one, not even Bethenny, has said that he slept with or put his "dick in" any part of the other woman.

IMO, we just don't know enough about Tom/his real life/personality to judge him as a famewhore or to suggest he is only marrying Luann for her money and/or her fleeting fame.

I guess only time will tell what kind of man he is and his "motives" in marrying Luann, Oh, and visa versa! LOL

[Nanny pants]

Does anyone think Tom must be seriously reconsidering the wisdom in marrying LuAnn?  Jeez...the constant, unremitting scrutiny, the Sonya/Ramona bullshit, the wild speculation about everything in his life by total strangers.  This can't be expected and certainly not pleasant.  Good luck to him.

[zoeysmom]

31 minutes ago, Nanny pants said:

Does anyone think Tom must be seriously reconsidering the wisdom in marrying LuAnn?  Jeez...the constant, unremitting scrutiny, the Sonya/Ramona bullshit, the wild speculation about everything in his life by total strangers.  This can't be expected and certainly not pleasant.  Good luck to him.

I have thought the rough patch probably had to do with Bethenny immediately announcing, after they announced their engagement, that Tom had bedded two of Luann's cast mates.  This cheating moment comes on the heels of a lot of not so favorable publicity.  Add insult to injury that Sonja keeps claiming he was housewife shopping.  Makes me wonder if he was rethinking being with a public figure.  Not because he wanted to sneak around but because of the scrutiny.

On another note, the night Tom and Luann met, they were both with other people, I am wondering how the introduction was made.  Did Luann's date know Tom?  Did Tom recognize Luann, in a Cheers like moment that when she walked in people said, "Countess".  The whole hand taking thing-would that have been consistent with shaking hands, as when you first meet someone?  So many questions, so few answers. 

[zoeysmom]

Apparently all is good with the Countess, Tom and her kids: 

Luann's dress is from her collection.  Her son sure has grown into a handsome young man.