S04.E04: Honeymoons, Part 1

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Part 1 of 2. The couples go off on their honeymoons and Sonia misinterprets Nick's intentions; Tom and Lillian take their relationship to a new level; and Heather's concerns about Derek come to the surface.

[ExplainItAgain]

Tom and Lillian are getting along so well it's almost a little boring! I think this "materialistic" thing will probably be nothing.

Sonia needs to buck up - she's in danger of coming off as a basketcase.

Derek had a good point that they walked away and cooled off and when he came back she was saying the same things as before. But he ruined his argument by calling her an alcoholic. I would never date a smoker but Heather is so judgmental. I would also never consider someone who smokes to be lacking in morals or less classy than me.

Derek can probably quit smoking easier than Heather can remove that stick up her ass.

[Empress1]

So the smoking Derek is doing is totally weed, not cigarettes. It's obvious from their conversations, especially the way he likened it to her drinking. I'm in the "legalize it!" camp, although I don't smoke myself. While I don't have a problem with Derek (or anyone) smoking weed, assuming he can get his shit done and isn't driving high, I'm not sure I could be with someone who smokes weed every day. Heather seemed pretty done though, and she does come off as very judgmental - smoking doesn't mean you lack morals or class, damn.

I think Sonia and Nick have a real shot.  They're definitely my favorites. (I love that she brought a book on the honeymoon.) Nick seems like the sort of person who does small, snarky funny things and I dig that. There was something about their little ironing board breakfast setup that I thought was very cute. I think they're just taking their time to get to know each other and you can see them becoming gradually more comfortable with each other (and, I suspect, with being on camera). They also don't have unreasonable expectations. I think that's the point that Nick was trying to make when they got into that argument - I think they just misunderstood each other, which is to be expected since they don't yet know how the other communicates.

[Buggaboo35]

Did Derek know that heather didn't like smoking before the argument?

Even if he did, he has a point - what he does on vacation isn't indicative of what he's like when he's at home.  Don't most people relax a bit on vacations?  Smoke a bit more, drink a bit more, eat a bit more?

Heather could have brought up the fact that smoking bothers her instead of crucifying him for it.   

[Straycat80]

I've changed my mind about  Nick and Sonia. They do like each other. I didn't understand what she got so upset with what he said during their pillow talk. Taking things  slow(did he mean sex?). I wish Sonia would lay off the bright red lipstick, I think it makes her look older.

so Derek asked Heather if it was ok if he smoked and she said yes. I'm watching 'Unfiltered' right now.  I'm an ex-smoker, being around smokers doesn't bother me at all. But I understand other people not wanting to be with a smoker. I think these two are caught between a rock and a hard place. I don't see this ending well. Neither one fights fair. 

Tom and Lily went to Dunnes River Falls in Jamaica! Been there twice, so much fun! I wasn't surprised they had sex. They have chemistry. But we'll see what happens when she sees the bus. 

[WichitaStateShock]

Okay, so I now think it's weed and I can understand where she is coming from. However, Derek was trying to be rational and she couldn't comprise or let it go. 

 

Okay, I LOVE Nick and Sonia! They remind me of my husband and I. She is pretty loud and seems extroverted but really she is just really anxious as most over thinkers are. Her coping strategies include being more vocal and quirky (totally me). Nick is calm and funny when you least expect it. I think this marriage will be a success!

[cardigirl]

Seems like  Heather was filmed elsewhere and everyone else is in the same room as Jaimie, for the confessions part. 

Edited August 17, 2016 by cardigirl

[ralph]

Like Heather, I don't really like smoking and I don't really want a partner who smokes, UNLIKE Heather, I think I'd give Derek a little give because he had a point, he IS on vacation so he'd probably smoke less in his day to day life. Just like he said, she'd been drinking more than he had smoked, and of course people tend to drink more on vacation than they normally would. All she has to do is wait it out and see what he does when the honeymoon is over---if he doesn't smoke for then on or only rarely, you're good...if he smokes like a chimney, congratulations you were right, get rid of him. Just don't decide 5 days in that the experts matched you with a dud and that this relationship would never work.

UPDATE: Just got that some people think it was weed Derek was smoking, not cigarettes, which changes how I feel on the topic. I can kinda get Heather not budging on the issue. I wouldn't. I'm ok with cigarettes, but not marijuana, not even open to idea. But just in case it was cigarettes, the above statement still applies.

Watching Tom and Lily is like watching a happy scene in a movie that you just know is lasting too long and then the music changes to something sinister...everything is just too damn good and you're just waiting for something to fuck it up. And I'm tired of talking about it, but 99% sure it's gonna involve Tom's bus or the feelers he keeps throwing at Lily to see how she would feel about it.

Edited August 17, 2016 by ralph

[ralph]

2 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

I've changed my mind about  Nick and Sonia. They do like each other. I didn't understand what she got so upset with what he said during their pillow talk. Taking things  slow(did he mean sex?).

It was because at that point, she was pretty into him and all she said was that she really likes him....then he says, let's not rush things.

People would look at that and see it as Sonia overreacting, but in my opinion, it was NICK who was overreacting. All she said was that she liked him. Yeah, she could've let it go, but she just wanted to know what she said they he took so seriously that he had to shut her down like that. I mean come on, she was confused. I would be too (again, all she said was "I LIKE YOU") I think Nick might have some emotional issues or past relationship trauma that makes it hard for him to tell someone that he likes them after 5 days. He says it to camera all the time, but he's apparently uncomfortable with saying it to Sonia's face. Maybe it's because he's shy.

All she said was that she liked him and he pretty much gave her a "calm down you clingy bitch, it's been 5 days"

Edited August 17, 2016 by ralph

[ShowsILoveToHate]

19 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

I've changed my mind about  Nick and Sonia. They do like each other. I didn't understand what she got so upset with what he said during their pillow talk. Taking things  slow(did he mean sex?). I wish Sonia would lay off the bright red lipstick, I think it makes her look older.

so Derek asked Heather if it was ok if he smoked and she said yes. I'm watching 'Unfiltered' right now.  I'm an ex-smoker, being around smokers doesn't bother me at all. But I understand other people not wanting to be with a smoker. I think these two are caught between a rock and a hard place. I don't see this ending well. Neither one fights fair. 

Tom and Lily went to Dunnes River Falls in Jamaica! Been there twice, so much fun! I wasn't surprised they had sex. They have chemistry. But we'll see what happens when she sees the bus. 

I agree with what everyone has already posted.  Heather's talking heads don't indicate a good story for these 2.  I hate to say this, but her facial expressions, the negative ones, remind of that brunette from Season 3. (Forgot her name. LOL)

 

What's "Unfiltered"?  I know that Dr Pepper said that Heather had checked off "occasional smoker ok" on her list of traits that she wanted and/or didn't want in a mate.  She really should've checked off "Non-smokers only".   

It was fun watching Tom and Lily at Dunnes River Falls.  I recognized it immediately.  She seems like she has the potential to be able to accept that he lives in a bus; but what about him?  Does he have something against living somewhere else, for example, his wife's house?  He shouldn't really expect anything to be ok with just giving up their lifestyle and hop aboard the bus.  Sure he should keep his bus, but I hope he doesn't insist that they live there happily ever after....??

 

Nick and Sonia have real potential, but I get nervous watching them because they're doing so well, but one "false move" or word can throw a couple back a few steps, kind of like how their bedtime chat went.  I'm rooting for them.

[BunnySlippers]

15 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

I've changed my mind about  Nick and Sonia. They do like each other. I didn't understand what she got so upset with what he said during their pillow talk. Taking things  slow(did he mean sex?). I wish Sonia would lay off the bright red lipstick, I think it makes her look older.

I do think that Sonia misunderstood what Nick meant and overreacted a little, but I can also see her side: she'd just told him that she liked him, so after that to hear that he wanted to take it slow and he was fine with the way things were seemed as though he was saying that she was coming on to him too fast and too soon and he wasn't there yet. She's been very insecure about whether or not he likes her and whether or not he finds her attractive, so I think when she heard him say those things she immediately thought that her fears had just been proven right and he did not find her attractive.

I totally agree about the bright red lipstick.

I supported Heather before, but after this episode, not so much. She does have a stick up her butt. I understand that too much smoking bothers her, but if that's the case, she should have stipulated that she does not want any smoking around her, occasional or not. I can't stand any smoke around me, because I feel like I can't breathe with it in the air, but I know that, so I would not say I was okay with even just some occasional smoking.

Derek could have handled things a little better (he got pretty defensive and confrontational about the issue), but at least he extended a hand and tried to discuss the situation with Heather. Heather, on the other hand, just kept harping about the smoking, so I understand Derek's frustration with her. And she totally ignored his point that apparently she'd been drinking all day, every day.

I like Nick, and I think he and Sonia will make a good pair, they just have to learn to communicate a little better so they will both know what exactly the other person means when they say this or that and what it is that bothers them.

I'm not a big fan of Tom, but I have to admit that he seems intelligent and he is treating Lilly very nicely so far. I think it's a little immature, though, that he keeps trying to go around the bus issue, instead of just telling her outright about it. I'm very curious what her reaction will be when she finds out about it.

[Straycat80]

Waaaaaaait! So Derek is possibly smoking weed? I just assumed it was cigarettes. In that case, if it's true, I don't blame Heather, I would not be with someone who smokes weed.

[absolutelyido]

Could Heather try any harder to find fault with Derek? I can kind of understand his smoking bothering her, but she also is annoyed that he likes gambling (the horror!). I would say that the majority of men I know enjoy gambling, so if that is a deal breaker for her I think she is ruling out a huge portion of the male population. However, for the men I know, their gambling is limited to fantasy football, an occasional lottery ticket, and a couple of trips to a casino a year so it's not a problem. I would be willing to bet (gambler that I am) that Derek is similar. I would also be willing to bet that Heather hasn't even asked Derek how much he gambles, she just marked a check against him when they passed a casino and said he enjoyed gambling. Oh, and she has also determined that he is not tidy enough for her. You can just tell by how she was riding her bike ahead of him that she doesn't even really want to be around him. There is no salvaging that relationship.

Tom & Lily seem like too much too fast to me.  I'm not convinced they will work out. I think Nick & Sonia will slowly but surely get there.

[Empress1]

5 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

Waaaaaaait! So Derek is possibly smoking weed? I just assumed it was cigarettes. In that case, if it's true, I don't blame Heather, I would not be with someone who smokes weed.

I don't know Derek personally, read spoilers, or follow any of these folks on social media so I don't know for sure that he smokes weed, but I definitely think that's it. The way he compared it to drinking and the fact that no one has used the word "cigarette" are huge clues. Heather hasn't said "You've smoked half a pack a day!" or anything like that; it's just "smoking."

[Racj82]

I really don't understand all the weed talk. Nothing I've seen indicates this. He brought up her drinking because it's one vice for another. Not because of anything else, imo. He's smoking because he's on his vacation having a good time and I'm sure that's why she's drinking. That's the other relation. 

[Aethera]

Reminder: Keep the episode threads to episode talk only, please! If someone confirmed something on social media, or is talking about something there, but it doesn't occur in the episode, it belongs in the Spoiler & Social Media thread, instead.

[Lola16]

Derek and his smoking is Tom and his bus. Both want their significant other to be flexible, make compromises, discuss it out but neither is willing to budge.

Derek and Heather are a horrible match. She's not ready for a relationship, hasn't worked on herself, doesn't change her approach etc. His approach is to out talk, over talk, and half listen.  Both snipe and lash out.  They're like that couple that stays together for the kids but spreads their miserableness to all around.

Nick and Sonia are promising.  Nick still sucks at communication and ability to read the room (Sonia). Sonia is too emotional. But they don't give off a crash and burn vibe like the others.

[lebleutv]

In my opinion, it appears to be "weed" that they are referring to in this episode. There is no indication that it is cigarettes. No mention of "packs" or "cigarettes." Smoking weed is likely more common than smoking cigarettes among 20-40 crowd. The way it is being discussed by Heather and Derek indicates to me that it is weed. The way he got defensive about it and called her an alcoholic says to me that it is weed. Smoking cigarettes is so unpopular/uncool now that most young folks would respond that they are trying to quit.

Before today's episode, I thought Heather was uptight and rude. However, I see her point now. I think Derek is a sweet lovable guy. I am not morally opposed to weed, but could not picture myself married to someone who consumes it because it is just not part of my life. Considering that it is illegal in most states, a drug dealer is involved in most instances, and there is an implicit shady element to the practice that I am just not comfortable with. Therefore, I do not fault Heather for feeling the same way. I think his "vacation mode" argument is B.S. They are not on a vacation to get away from the daily grind. He got married on a TV show with a stranger and sent on a "honeymoon" where he has one shot at presenting himself to her as he is. Obviously, smoking weed is a big part of his life. His reaction was also a bit childish. Why is he surprised that she is offended by his illegal activity?

Edited August 17, 2016 by lebleutv

[zxy556575]

Jeeze, Nick. If the behavior we've seen is him feeling comfortable, I'd hate to know what he finds awkward. I don't blame Sonia for being upset after she told him she "really really" liked him and he refused to reciprocate. That's pretty cold and another instance of the attitude he displayed on their wedding day when he was unable to tell her she looked pretty. God forbid he say something nice to his wife's face.

Several of the participants have mentioned that they "hope" this or that happens or something goes well in the future. To me that indicates they haven't gone into this believing the marriages will be binding. Which of course they aren't, but the mindset of "I can always divorce" is quite detrimental to eventual success. In arranged marriages, love and affection sometimes don't develop for many months.

Heather and her "this is not what I expected" comment also indicate to me how unrealistic she was beforehand. Nope, marriage is not a fairy tale, Heather, and some people are messy.

Edited August 17, 2016 by lordonia

[ctbabe]

14 minutes ago, lebleutv said:

In my opinion, it appears to be "weed" that they are referring to in this episode. There is no indication that it is cigarettes. No mention of "packs" or "cigarettes." Smoking weed is likely more common than smoking cigarettes among 20-40 crowd. The way it is being discussed by Heather and Derek indicates to me that it is weed. The way he got defensive about it and called her an alcoholic says to me that it is weed. Smoking cigarettes is so unpopular/uncool now that most young folks would respond that they are trying to quit.

Before today's episode, I thought Heather was uptight and rude. However, I see her point now. I think Derek is a sweet lovable guy. I am not morally opposed to weed, but could not picture myself married to someone who consumes it because it is just not part of my life. Considering that it is illegal in most states, a drug dealer is involved in most instances, and there is an implicit shady element to the practice that I am just not comfortable with. Therefore, I do not fault Heather for feeling the same way. I think his "vacation mode" argument is B.S. They are not on a vacation to get away from the daily grind. He got married on a TV show with a stranger and sent on a "honeymoon" where he has one shot at presenting himself to her as he is. Obviously, smoking weed is a big part of his life. His reaction was also a bit childish. Why is he surprised that she is offended by his illegal activity?

He was surprised because he asked for her permission before smoking. She actually gave him permission so if she changed her mind, she should have told him privately. 

[izabella]

Tom is doing more damage by not telling Lily that he lives on a bus than he would by telling her.  The way he's talking around it is leading him to explain his philosophy and he's coming across as thinking he's superior to people who aren't, ahem, "minimalist."  It's one thing to say, "I live my life focused on things I love to do rather than on possessions," and it's another to say, "I'm a minimalist, unlike all those materialistic people out there."  He described himself in a way that made it clear he thinks this makes him better than other people, which makes him sound defensive. 

If Tom were secure in his choices, he wouldn't be too insecure to tell his bride about his home, The Bus., and he wouldn't have to put other people down in the process of describing himself.

Edited August 17, 2016 by izabella

[lebleutv]

1 minute ago, ctbabe said:

He was surprised because he asked for her permission before smoking. She actually gave him permission so if she changed her mind, she should have told him privately. 

Any answer other than "yes" would have meant that she is controlling him from the get go. Also, asking for permission to smoke one time does not translate to smoking on a daily basis (aka addiction).

I just find it hard to believe that he expected no flack for smoking from his WIFE! He should not expect privacy on the matter either, he signed up for a reality show.

[ctbabe]

21 hours ago, lebleutv said:

Any answer other than "yes" would have meant that she is controlling him from the get go. Also, asking for permission to smoke one time does not translate to smoking on a daily basis (aka addiction).

I just find it hard to believe that he expected no flack for smoking from his WIFE! He should not expect privacy on the matter either, he signed up for a reality show.

I would have said NO that I wasn't comfortable with it. There is no use starting the marriage with lies.

Edited August 18, 2016 by ctbabe
Typo

[ralph]

After thinking on it more, I'm definitely sure Derek was smoking weed and not cigarettes because Heather made it a point to say she wanted to talk to him about it "in private", considering how it's just the two of them on this trip, she probably meant when they weren't filming. Also, if it were cigarettes, I'd think it'd be no problem airing it on TV---but what ever Derek is smoking isn't being aired and the word "cigarette" or any cigarette related words like "pack" aren't being used. Other terminology and words when they're talking about it doesn't fit. Heather used the phrase "occasional use". No one uses the word "use" in reference to smoking cigarettes like "occasional use" of tobacco, but commonly use it when talking about harder drugs like marijuana. He said he can't smoke at work---you can smoke cigarettes on most jobs, I mean it'd probably be frowned upon or discouraged with certain companies, but people step outside on their breaks, smoke a cigarette and come back like it's not problem. He also defended it with "people believe it's no worse than drinking"...well no one in their right mind within the last few decades, has ever said that smoking cigarettes is no worse than drinking. I'm sure everyone by now knows the negative effects of tobacco, even the people who smoke admit it---however, that's a common defense for marijuana.

Edited August 18, 2016 by ralph

[lebleutv]

Tom & Lilian - I don't really like Tom. I get the sense that he is a drifter who will put others down as "materialistic" for wanting basic things in life like a normal job, home and car.  Unless the bus drama is all for the show, I don't like how he has gone so far with Lilian but has neglected to tell her about the bus. The fact that he keeps waiting to tell her tells me that this bus is very important in his life (perhaps more important than his wife).

I also don't understand how the experts could have matched these two considering the huge cultural differences. A latina realtor from Miami will not understand the free-spirit surfer lifestyle. She might go for it now because she is only 24 and madly in love with her hot new surfer husband, but she obviously values her family and culture (i.e. pearls at the wedding). If this were just dating, it wouldn't matter. The issue is that they are now MARRIED and in it for the long haul. Even if she gives in for now, I'm sure she will want more traditional things down the road. Immigrants from poor countries simply do not understand the bohemian/free spirit lifestyle that is more prevalent in industrialized countries. Her family is going to label him a loser as soon as they know about the bus.

Edited August 17, 2016 by lebleutv

[psychoticstate]

My ex was a smoker and he hid it from me until after we married.  When I discussed it with  him and was pretty upset about it, as I had told him I did not want to be with a smoker, I never said "cigarettes" or "packs," it was always "smoking" but it was cigarettes.  So I don't know whether Derek is smoking Marlboros or weed but I think Heather really attacked him and the comments about morals and being classy were really uncalled for.  She seems to have been trying to find something about him to find fault with since their wedding day.  By the same token, neither of them were handling this conflict very well.  I would be very surprised if Derek and Heather make it through the honeymoon. 

I like Sonia and Nick and I understand both sides of the pillow talk misunderstanding.  I do get why he was saying this is day 5, not day 30, and I think it's a smart thought although maybe not the best thing to voice to Sonia.  I get that Sonia would take it as a rejection or rebuff, especially after she had just told him she liked him.  But I wish she could have seen his comment as his way of saying that he doesn't want to rush and potentially ruin the great relationship they are building.

Tom and Lilly are really cute.  I hope they make it; they seem ideally suited.  The fact they consummated the marriage fairly quickly worries me though.  It usually doesn't bode well on this show.

[lebleutv]

6 minutes ago, ralph said:

After thinking on it more, I'm definitely sure Derek was smoking weed and not cigarettes because Heather made it a point to say she wanted to talk to him about it "in private", considering how it's just the two of them on this trip, she probably meant when they weren't filming. Also, if it were cigarettes, I'd think it'd be no problem airing it on TV---but what ever Derek is smoking isn't being aired and the word "cigarette" or any cigarette related words like "pack" aren't being used. He said he can't smoke at work---you can smoke cigarettes on most jobs, I mean it'd probably be frowned upon or discouraged with certain companies, but people step outside on their breaks, smoke a cigarette and come back like it's not problem. He also defended it with "people believe it's no worse than drinking"...well no one in their right mind within this decade, has ever said that smoking cigarettes is no worse than drinking. I'm sure everyone by now knows the negative effects of tobacco, even the people who smoke admit it---however, that's a common defense for marijuana.

BINGO! No one in their right mind would say smoking is no worse than drinking, unless they are referring to marijuana. The producers and cameramen are there for the drama. If cigarettes were involved, they would have made sure to get him on camera doing it. As you said, people smoke at work all the time. They just do it during their breaks outside.

[Squirrely]

I'm 100% in favor of legalization and have zero issues with weed, but I'd be pretty annoyed in Heather's shoes as well. Of course if it wasn't this it'd be something else, but starting out every day with your new husband high would not be fun. I was pretty annoyed by her until I realized it wasn't cigarettes they were taking about. 

[HZAnita]

Heather/Derek - Yeah, I'm finally on the weed train.  If he has actually been smoking weed EVERY DAY in front of his brand new wife who knows absolutely nothing about him, not to mention a film crew, he may actually have a real problem (Heather's mind: "STRIKE ONE!").  On the flip-side, Heather;s protective walls seem more impenetrable than Fort Knox.  She needs to be able to deal with issues instead of avoiding them and letting them build up until she explodes (or walks away as she said she's done when she's dating). The smoking thing?  I get it.  But where the heck did the "he gambles" crap come from?  Because he mentioned a casino on the ride to the hotel?  They haven't shown him gambling. Has he been gambling while he's smoking and it's off-camera (Heather;s mind: "STRIKE TWO!!")??  Also, "he's messier than me."  Huh...? (Sorry, Derek, "STRIKE THREE!!")  And the bike ride!  So...uncomfortable and tense.  Just get these two a divorce already. 

Tom/Lillian - I like them fine and I know they have been building up the whole bus issue.  But the most disturbing part of their story last night? The (seemingly) uncomfortably long, close-up, butt-rubbing scene. I really did not need to see that (or so much of it).

Nick/Sonia - I can't help it.  I totally love them.  Like others have said, these two remind me of myself and my husband.  I don't think Nick meant anything negative during their pillow talk, but he is completely socially awkward.  I did like how he gave her some space, came back, and apologized.  And I liked how Sonia allowed that she may have overreacted.  I think they have memorized that Love Languages book, because Nick mentioned that their "languages are different" in several different contexts. lol  I really enjoy watching their slow development versus the Tom&Lillian (Tilly?) insta-attraction and the slow-motion train wreck that is Heather/Derek (Hek? aka the child-friendly word for the netherworld).  Anyway, I hope Nick and Sonia make it.

Can we discuss Unfiltered here?

[Snarklepuss]

In Heather's defense, she was actually OK with "occasional" weed smoking (and I do believe it's weed as others have pointed out), so she was being fully consistent in giving Derek the "OK" to smoke.  But there's a BIG difference between smoking an occasional joint and smoking more than once EVERY DAY.  If it is true that Derek is smoking that much and more than usual he should have known he would be making an incorrect impression and SAID SOMETHING ABOUT IT himself.  I don't see where the responsibility for portraying himself accurately his her responsibility.  I think it is his, so he's the one who should have been concerned about how he was coming off.  The fact that he was not is very telling in a bad way, IMHO.  I don't think she should have been expected on day 3 or 5 to tell him to stop smoking.  The damage was already done, the impression made.  Telling him not to do it is futile.  Besides, I call BS on his saying his smoking was "occasional".  That's a BS question that people would want to fudge not to nix their chances of being matched with someone.  Anyway, Mr. Snarkle said that any guy who wears a baseball cap backwards is a total asshole.  I'm not a guy and really have no opinion on that but I can actually see where he's coming from.

[Snarklepuss]

 I also thought it was lame of Derek to make comparisons between Heather drinking a few pina coladas and weed smoking (which it's obvious it was because no one would compare drinking with cigarettes).  First of all, drinking is LEGAL, so it's not a fair comparison.  IMO Heather has a right to be upset about it by virtue of it being illegal alone.  Plus she's fully exposing herself on NATIONAL TV.  How would it look to her employers and family if she were just la-de-da about the whole thing?  She is smart to anticipate that it wouldn't be a secret to the rest of the world.  Derek is a total asshole for not realizing what kind of position he is putting her in.

[HZAnita]

Neither Heather nor Derek know how to argue fairly.  The fact that she was like, "because I'm classy and have morals?" implying that he was neither of those.  Then he felt it necessary to pull her down from her "high horse" by bringing up the drinking.  They are only listening to themselves, not each other.  They weren't discussing the issues, they were focusing on the other person's "faults." </Dr. Pepper>

[Pepper Mostly]

9 hours ago, BunnySlippers said:

I supported Heather before, but after this episode, not so much. She does have a stick up her butt. I understand that too much smoking bothers her, but if that's the case, she should have stipulated that she does not want any smoking around her, occasional or not. I can't stand any smoke around me, because I feel like I can't breathe with it in the air, but I know that, so I would not say I was okay with even just some occasional smoking.

Derek could have handled things a little better (he got pretty defensive and confrontational about the issue), but at least he extended a hand and tried to discuss the situation with Heather. Heather, on the other hand, just kept harping about the smoking, so I understand Derek's frustration with her. And she totally ignored his point that apparently she'd been drinking all day, every day.

 

 

Derek did go on the defensive but I can't fault him too much. He's been so positive and happy, he's delighted with Heather, he's thrilled to be married, he cuts her all kinds of slack when she's critical. Then she blindsides him--and before you can say "always pass your joint to the right" she's casting aspersions on his morality and "class". I think he was really hurt. She came off as judgmental and unbending. That would really rub me the wrong way. She is a very unpleasant person.  So sour.

9 hours ago, absolutelyido said:

Could Heather try any harder to find fault with Derek? I can kind of understand his smoking bothering her, but she also is annoyed that he likes gambling (the horror!). I would say that the majority of men I know enjoy gambling, so if that is a deal breaker for her I think she is ruling out a huge portion of the male population. However, for the men I know, their gambling is limited to fantasy football, an occasional lottery ticket, and a couple of trips to a casino a year so it's not a problem. I would be willing to bet (gambler that I am) that Derek is similar. I would also be willing to bet that Heather hasn't even asked Derek how much he gambles, she just marked a check against him when they passed a casino and said he enjoyed gambling. Oh, and she has also determined that he is not tidy enough for her. You can just tell by how she was riding her bike ahead of him that she doesn't even really want to be around him. There is no salvaging that relationship.

 

That was my take also. She's already decided that Derek is a slob, a gambler, and a druggie. I hope that the thing she learns from this experiment is that she should never, ever get married. No one will ever be good enough for her. Did you see how she was hanging off the edge of the bed in the opening scene? I would have laughed but I felt so bad for Derek. I think he's sweet. I'm Woodstock generation and have no issues whatsoever with pot, though I don't partake myself. I know many people who smoke, do it regularly, live normal productive lives and are pillars of the community. Shrug. Different strokes. Heather shouldn't have lied.

[ctbabe]

2 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Derek did go on the defensive but I can't fault him too much. He's been so positive and happy, he's delighted with Heather, he's thrilled to be married, he cuts her all kinds of slack when she's critical. Then she blindsides him--and before you can say "always pass your joint to the right" she's casting aspersions on his morality and "class". I think he was really hurt. She came off as judgmental and unbending. That would really rub me the wrong way. She is a very unpleasant person.  So sour.

That was my take also. She's already decided that Derek is a slob, a gambler, and a druggie. I hope that the thing she learns from this experiment is that she should never, ever get married. No one will ever be good enough for her. Did you see how she was hanging off the edge of the bed in the opening scene? I would have laughed but I felt so bad for Derek. I think he's sweet. I'm Woodstock generation and have no issues whatsoever with pot, though I don't partake myself. I know many people who smoke, do it regularly, live normal productive lives and are pillars of the community. Shrug. Different strokes. Heather shouldn't have lied.

I LOVE YOU... Great Analysis 

[jamblastx]

For the most part I was quite bored by the episode and was multi-tasking by using my maximalist, materialistic iPad....until those last 20 minutes.  Anyway, for what it's worth:

Derek McSquint/Blonde Ashley - Oofah...where to begin with these two.  Just go directly to divorce, do not pass Go, do not collect $200.  They both have valid points but have zero idea how to discuss them rationally.  Heather is clearly nitpicky and looks for excuses to bail and judges and tailors a self fulfilling prophecy of failure with Derek.  An offhand comment 'Oh look they have a Casino' does not make Derek a gambler....nor does him being messier than her make him a slob.  And of course the smoking....whether or not its tobacco or pot, she does have a point that with her being a non-smoker, it does not make a great first impression.  But rather than coming off as judgmental, why not constructively discuss it?  And he should not come off so half cocked and at least acknowledge that it is an issue for her and at least cut down on his smoking at least around her.  Now if it is pot, well hmm I can see why she would be a little more concerned that he is more than an occasional smoker.  He would have had to either bring the pot with him which is very risky and very illegal when crossing borders or get it there which is not something you can buy at the hotel convenience store.  For the record, I don't smoke either and I do not judge people that do.

Tom Stubblebus the Minimalist/Lillian -  Tom....shut the f*** up with your 'minimalist' BS.  YOU are the materialistic one since you put your 'lifestyle' and that stupid bus above your relationships and then use that as an excuse why they are 'wrong' and 'materialists'.  If it's all about not being materialistic and being a 'minimalist' then why not live in a small modest house/apartment/RV and not this tour bus that you state you always wanted to do since you were a kid?  And shave or let your beard grow out!

Nick Poker Face/Sonja? - I know that they are the forum's sweethearts? But I find them so dull?  Sonja needs to lighten up?  But I really don't care either way?  However I can see these two actually work?

Edited August 17, 2016 by jamblastx
misspelling

[Higgins]

I would prefer a weed smoker to a drinker any day.

[Primetimer]

And more not-quite-burning questions sparked by 'Honeymoons, Part 1'!

View the full article

[Vinyasa]

I'm not even sure what to make of these couples. I'm already bored and could fast forward to the end.  Hopefully it will get better!

I do know I'm over the matching "wifey/hubby" shirts.

[Vinyasa]

Quote

After thinking on it more, I'm definitely sure Derek was smoking weed and not cigarettes because Heather made it a point to say she wanted to talk to him about it "in private", considering how it's just the two of them on this trip, she probably meant when they weren't filming. Also, if it were cigarettes, I'd think it'd be no problem airing it on TV---but what ever Derek is smoking isn't being aired and the word "cigarette" or any cigarette related words like "pack" aren't being used.

I believe you're right about what Derek is smoking and not showing it on TV.

 Can anyone remember back when Doug smoked? Didn't they show him smoking a cigarette outside?

[humbleopinion]

Heather has shown herself to be a brittle, my-way-or-the-highway, Miss/Mrs. Prissy High Horse.

When she used the word "irked" I wanted to flip the table(on Derek's behalf , of course).

Wishing Derek would just rip off his battery pack/microphone and say enough of this shit and demand another hotel room or bunk with the M@FS crew.

Derek, of course should go down to the concierge and rebook all those stupid couples' excursions for a time separate from Heather and thoroughly enjoy his zipline outing as lit as he can get.

Be the first First Sighter to walk away from the cameras 5 days into this trainwreck, Derek.

Hopefully, M@FS will dump the toker/boozer couple and bring in another couple for a quickie wedding, yada, yada, yada, send them on a weekend honeymoon in the Poconos with the giant heart or champagne glass tub and get them caught up with the other 2 couples ready to house hunt.

M@FS Producers-Do not put us through the Sam/Neil ringer again with Derek/Heather.

Edited August 17, 2016 by humbleopinion
smore nonsense

[SaucyMommy]

I just finished watching the episode online. Initially was really rooting for Lilian and Tom - but the quickness of the attraction and how much they like each other - makes me feel like it will implode with the same intensity. I wish they would actually talk more and kiss less. I'm kind of grossed out watching them constantly grope each other.

I thought that Nick and Sonia were odd at first but they are really growing on me. I think they actually stand a good shot. My husband is really shy like Nick - and it took him a long time to really open up. He still after 7.5 years together struggles with it - so if she can be patient with him - which I think her extroverted self can - it should work. I thought the fight was rather much to do about nothing.

I really wanted to say this was all on Heather. I do think she is being nit picky, and I agree with Derek that she will never find the perfect person. I agree with her that it's a really poor impression to smoke so much with someone - and even if you are in "vacation mode" you are still on vacation with a stranger. He could have maybe dialed it back - HOWEVER if she said initially she was fine with it and he asked - then you can't really fault him. Either way - they weren't fighting about the topic they were fighting at each other. And I don't see this ending well.

[Pepper Mostly]

1 hour ago, ctbabe said:

I LOVE YOU... Great Analysis 

Aw, back at ya, @ctbabe.

One thing I've learned in life? Anyone who brags about having "class", does not. Heather, dear, you are not Princess Grace. Get over yourself.

[SaucyMommy]

3 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Aw, back at ya, @ctbabe.

One thing I've learned in life? Anyone who brags about having "class", does not. Heather, dear, you are not Princess Grace. Get over yourself.

I agree with this very much. i thought her response to Derek was super low "class" and passive aggressive. I don't like her but I don't necessarily think she's totally wrong in this argument.

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Higgins said:

I would prefer a weed smoker to a drinker any day.

For sure with these two as examples.  I'd prefer smoking every day smiley, friendly, enjoy the beautiful scenery while bike-riding Derek, over drinking every day, sour, uptight, can't crack a smile even once Heather.

[henrysmom]

Just finished watching the episode online.  I am a little nervous about Tom and Lily.  As others have said, they were really hot, really fast and might explode just as quickly.  But I have hopes for them.  They are just so adorable together.

I was kind of dismayed at the "pillow talk" exercise.  I thought to myself "that is just going to make them miserable if the question leads to a fight".  But then a question led to a fight with Sonia and Nick and, who would have believed it on this show, but they talked to each other like mature adults and got through it to a little more understanding.  I really have high hopes for these two.

Derek and Heather.  Yeah, they're done.    They will never be able to fight fair because she doesn't want to listen.  During the balcony scene it was all "me, me, me" and everything about Derek was wrong.  The best thing I can say about them is that they aren't the disaster Ashley and David were because David, poor soul, was <so> committed to the marriage.  I don't think Derek is going to be as hurt when this ends as David was.

[Madame Crabanda]

Can anyone explain to me Derek's creepy tattoo of a naked headless woman squatting on a skull with flowers coming out of her decapitated neck? That would bother me more than the smoking.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Madame Crabanda

[Wings]

11 hours ago, ShowsILoveToHate said:

What's "Unfiltered"?  I know that Dr Pepper said that Heather had checked off "occasional smoker ok" on her list of traits that she wanted and/or didn't want in a mate.  She really should've checked off "Non-smokers only".   

Foolish mistake on her part.  Occasional is subjective.  I doubt I will ever warm to her.  Why am I being so delicate?  I hate her!  

1 hour ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Derek did go on the defensive but I can't fault him too much. He's been so positive and happy, he's delighted with Heather, he's thrilled to be married, he cuts her all kinds of slack when she's critical. Then she blindsides him--and before you can say "always pass your joint to the right" she's casting aspersions on his morality and "class". I think he was really hurt. She came off as judgmental and unbending. T

Hysterical!  Thank you. 

[BeatrixK]

9 hours ago, ralph said:

After thinking on it more, I'm definitely sure Derek was smoking weed and not cigarettes because Heather made it a point to say she wanted to talk to him about it "in private", considering how it's just the two of them on this trip, she probably meant when they weren't filming. Also, if it were cigarettes, I'd think it'd be no problem airing it on TV---but what ever Derek is smoking isn't being aired and the word "cigarette" or any cigarette related words like "pack" aren't being used. Other terminology and words when they're talking about it doesn't fit. Heather used the phrase "occasional use". No one uses the word "use" in reference to smoking cigarettes like "occasional use" of tobacco, but commonly use it when talking about harder drugs like marijuana. He said he can't smoke at work---you can smoke cigarettes on most jobs, I mean it'd probably be frowned upon or discouraged with certain companies, but people step outside on their breaks, smoke a cigarette and come back like it's not problem. He also defended it with "people believe it's no worse than drinking"...well no one in their right mind within this decade, has ever said that smoking cigarettes is no worse than drinking. I'm sure everyone by now knows the negative effects of tobacco, even the people who smoke admit it---however, that's a common defense for marijuana.

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding!

 

Yeah -- Derek totally smokes weed -- and, given where they are...he didn't have to carry it on the plane...he likely got hit up by a local 5 minutes after they got out of the van at the hotel.  His 'smoking behavior' as described on the show fits a pot smoker.  Cigarette smoker...not so much.

[henrysmom]

Quote

Derek's creepy tattoo of a naked headless woman squatting on a skull with flowers coming out of her decapitated neck? 

Dear lord...really?  I am so glad I didn't look too closely at his tattoos.  Not that I want to be a Heather but I really don't get tattoos, and this just sounds disturbing.  Hopefully somebody can explain it--maybe it is from mythology or something?

[Neurochick]

So much to say about this episode.

Derek and Heather:  First, I could care less about weed.  An MD friend once told me nicotine was the most dangerous drug known to man because you can die so many different ways because of it, and the second most dangerous was alcohol and SURPRISE, they're both legal and make a shit load of money for big business.  If weed were made by Pfizer it would probably be legal too.

Now, that said I think both Heather and Derek have a point.  Derek was like, "we're on vacation, I'm smoking because I'm on vacation," which makes sense to me.  I've been on many cruises and people drink alcohol a LOT more on cruises than they do IRL I'm sure.  Heather was like, "I don't know you Derek, you're a STRANGER (that word again)."  What she meant was she doesn't know how Derek really is when he's not on vacation.  Now, Heather probably said she didn't mind someone smoking weed occasionally, because she's probably done it a few times, maybe on holidays or something, so she couldn't say, "no smoking at all." 

I think Sonia is very self aware.  She realized that she overreacted to what Nick said, which was why she needed time alone, to think about what happened.  Sonia is a social worker, she probably always has to look for the meaning behind what people are saying; for instance, people will tell a social worker, "Everything's fine in this family."  But their body language might tell a different story, so Sonia is probably used to looking for hidden meaning in things.  But then, she realized she overreacted and it was all good.  Good for Sonia, and good for Nick for leaving her alone for awhile.

Tom and Lily are cute, but I have a funny feeling they might crash and burn; they also might have had sex too early.  When Lily got upset when Tom said something about people being materialistic, I was like, "and that's why you don't sleep with a guy unless you know a little more about him."  Tom didn't say Lily was materialistic, but she took offense, and that offense was probably taken because she doesn't know him that well.