The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy

[Guest]

What I've been told by people who register for things (being single I've never had the pleasure) is that after the fact, you can get a big discount on item not purchased on your registry (like those big ticket items). So it's basically a way to give it to yourself on sale. Plus you can return duplicates of things and get gift cards to help you buy them. So, they may not be expecting people to actually buy the crazy expensive vacuum, but know they want it and don't want to pay full price. Never thought I'd defend her, but here we are.

 

Now the quantities of things....that just doesn't make any sense...

 

It's also fairly common (at least around here) for groups to go in on gifts together.  This happened to me with my registry and I've done it with several friends for other showers.

[GEML]

It's virtually unheard of to be baptized more than once. And it's generally accepted to be baptized anywhere from 8-12, depending on the child.

The Duggar testimonies have become interesting recently. They prided themselves for so long on their very young children being "saved" but first there was Jinger and now Josh. There is a tradition in holiness movements for a "second baptism" of the Holy Spirit, but the Duggars language doesn't indicate this, although Jinger's interview with Ben seems to indicate she might be moving in this direction, actually. This might be a result of her involvement in street ministry, and she may actually be reading (I know, but her testimony is so different from everything they have said previously....it's not Gothard at all) that I wonder who she's been talking too. Having had some experience with the denomination they worshiped with in Little Rock, it could have come from there. Just speculating.

But now there is Josh. And he's thrown it all for a curve. They want to say he wasn't "saved" but that's a hard line to take if you're an Independent Baptist. He could "backslide" but they didn't take that line. They may be undergoing a big shift in theology here.

[JoanArc]

 

It's virtually unheard of to be baptized more than once. And it's generally accepted to be baptized anywhere from 8-12, depending on the child.

I did some more googling. They're lots of places the Duggars admit to rebaptizng. It makes perfect sense - it's a mind game designed to make you unsure of your salvation. Be good, or God-Bob will take away your get out of hell card.

[Cherrio]

I did some more googling. They're lots of places the Duggars admit to rebaptizng. It makes perfect sense - it's a mind game designed to make you unsure of your salvation. Be good, or God-Bob will take away your get out of hell card.

For the Duggars it stops being unheard of when it can become an episode or two.     

      I noticed in one of the pictures a boy is wearing a "Duggar Studio" t -shirt.     Except, there is a typo. It should say Duggar Stupido.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Cherrio

[Churchhoney]

It's virtually unheard of to be baptized more than once. And it's generally accepted to be baptized anywhere from 8-12,

 

Remember the river Jordan in Israel? Who knows what went on in homecurch, but I find it nearly impossible any of the kids make it to their teens without being baptized.

 

I think there were more kids int he river than just this pic:

 

 

EDIT: from the duggar family blog : The Duggars then head to the Jordan River, where Jim Bob, Grandma, and eight of the kids are re-baptized. Amy is baptized for the first time and is thrilled to have her Uncle Jim Bob do the honors.

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, now I'm really confused. According to this, 8 kids were being rebaptized already in Israel. And the pictured ones look youngish, so it's not beyond the realm of possibility that Jason and/or Jed were among them.... But in any case, we've got at least eight kid rebaptisms previously, and now either two more -- or one or two who've now had at least 3 baptisms.

   

And yet that's a rare phenomenon? Does any other group do this? If there were a theological shift going on, would it be to any known theology or just to "the Word according to Jim Bob"?

   

Maybe Jim Bob has "baptism" confused with "grandstanding"? Especially since it always seems to be accompanied by a photo op?

[CofCinci]

So basically every time you fuck up you can just go get rebaptized and you've got a blank slate?

[kokapetl]

I thought baptists only baptise as adults. I have memories of attending a baptist church, and the people being baptised were all octogenarians, and it took place in a hot tub.

[Quof]

So basically every time you fuck up you can just go get rebaptized and you've got a blank slate?

 

Small voice >> Rather like the Catholic confession? <<

[NEGirl]

What is the white robe coverup for - they are getting wet anyway? Is that what a person wears when being baptized? If not, I can't see how that would keep them dry. Just curious.......

[Churchhoney]

What is the white robe coverup for - they are getting wet anyway? Is that what a person wears when being baptized? If not, I can't see how that would keep them dry. Just curious.......

 

A lot of people do wear those. White robes go for confirmation, too, in a lot of churches that do that.

 

In JIm Bob's mind, though,  I suspect it also makes for a better photo op. Otherwise it looks too much like the Duggars don't have the sense to come in out of the rain. Oh, wait ....

[Readalot]

I thought baptists only baptise as adults. I have memories of attending a baptist church, and the people being baptised were all octogenarians, and it took place in a hot tub.

Jehovah's Witnesses will usually baptize starting the early teens if you were born into the religion. Although I remember an eight year old in my congregation getting baptized. All my friends did before we turned 18, except for me. I never got baptized. Left my family after HS and went to college.

[GeeGolly]

Did anyone watch Jeopardy tonight? I was in another room, but I believe I heard re-baptism and Mennonites. Or maybe I just have Duggar-forum on the brain.

[mimionthebeach]

A lot of people do wear those. White robes go for confirmation, too, in a lot of churches that do that.

In JIm Bob's mind, though, I suspect it also makes for a better photo op. Otherwise it looks too much like the Duggars don't have the sense to come in out of the rain. Oh, wait ....

Otherwise, they're just wearing their normal swimming clothes.

[GeeGolly]

Otherwise, they're just wearing their normal swimming clothes.

Normal swimming clothes. ;)

[Happyfatchick]

On baptism (she Tiptoes into the water...) it is absolutely not uncommon to be baptized more than once, in a Baptist church setting. Baptists (all of us) push salvation at ridiculous ages (sometimes as young as 4). For a family that regularly attends church, I'm estimating the average age for a child to be "saved" and baptized is around 8. Even at 8, when you go regularly and have it pounded into your head over and over how you need to "have a daily walk with the Lord" and other oft quoted sentiments, it is a little traumatizing to get a little older and be subjected (and sometimes capitulate) to temptations. It's not uncommon at all for a Baptist child to come to an awareness that they aren't living up to what they agreed to, and have a moment of remorse and repentance. They either a) make a commitment to renew their "daily walk with God" and choose to be rebaptised as a symbol of their renewed faith. Or b) they say...(as apparently Josh did) "you know what? I was too young to understand what I was doing the first time. THIS time, I really, really accept the Lord, I'm really going to turn my life over to Him", and choose to be rebaptised. I myself was baptized twice, as were many of my friends. (Three or four times gets a little squidgy, but I absolutely understand how twice can happen).

I guess it's difficult to understand if you weren't raised there, and I apologize for the mud. It's just all about free will, and a decision to follow Christ. (And a whole lot of guilt).

I'm sort of assuming (not having seen the epi) that the Jordan River thing was, for most of them, just a dunking so they can add it to their resumes. Just something to say you did. Sort of like the baby dedication service J/D participated in with Izzy. For Baptists, that service isn't about protecting the baby, or making him "special to God". The purpose of that service is for the PARENTS to commit to raise him/her in a Godly manner. (And there's always a spot for the church body to voice their willingness to help raise that child to follow God as well). Like baptism, it's not binding, just something to say you did. It FWII, It doesn't make you any more or less clean to be baptized. It's a SYMBOLIC gesture that you have been forgiven for your sins (dead to sin, and reborn a new man). Baptism isn't (for BAPTISTS, oddly enough) meant to be a "cleansing", it's merely a public display that you have accepted Christ. There's no litmus test to prove the validity of your acceptance, and baptism and salvation are two completely separate events (again, speaking strictly of baptists).

I am also not a religion major or a scholar of any kind, this is strictly real-life experience for me.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I would have liked to have seen the bridesmaid dresses she would have selected if she had the TLC wedding budget. Certainly the dresses would have been better than the fashion abortions Jessa and Jill picked out.

On the upside, we don't have to sit through the moment of the wedding episode where Amy signs a special song to her groom. Praise Jesus.

LMAO at "fashion abortion." I'm going to try to work that phrase into conversations, CofCinci!

[DangerousMinds]

I thought baptists only baptise as adults. I have memories of attending a baptist church, and the people being baptised were all octogenarians, and it took place in a hot tub.

You may be thinking of the Playboy mansion.:)

[Micks Picks]

Sew Sumi, Aug 6, that was my anniversary too.  

I don't really care for gifts. My sister, who I don't like, gives me bunches of kitchen towels and shit like that.  Now why do you think I don't have it?  Well, could it possibly be I don't use them?  And moving around this year she eagle eyes every time I land at the next place and produces even more of them.  I mean that's why God made paper towels and dishwashers.  She must have given me 20 kitchen towels this year.  I think I'm going to have to say something.  If I don't have doo-dads like that, get a clue, I don't want them.   Or maybe she is cleaning out her supply.  

 

 

 

Edited because I thought this didn't post at all since the computer lost network and then it repeated itself 4 times..sheesh

Edited July 31, 2015 by Micks Picks

[GEML]

Hmmmm....the only people I know who were recaptured were those who were baptized as infants in a church that did that, and then needed to be baptized as part of their public statement of faith as an older person. If you grew up in the church, that might be as young as 8, but it's been awhile, I think, since that's been the general practice.

There are a few cases where someone's life has gone so dreadfully awry that a rebaptism might be in order - but it's been rare in my personal experience. A full blown prodigal son, so to speak. Maybe you could make the case that Josh experienced this. Technically, that would have qualified.

But the other Duggar children? All of them? Might as well have said they were baptized as infants (using infant, the word, in its fullest sense) and it meant as much. Because if EVERYONE is double (or triple) dunked, I think it ceases to have meaning. (My opinion only) and borders on pathetic. But then, it's JB doing the dunking, and we all know he's not even a minister. So it's only a show. A show for them. A show for us. But those poor children obviously have NO church or theology to fall back on, for all of the rules they have to follow.

[Churchhoney]

On baptism (she Tiptoes into the water...) it is absolutely not uncommon to be baptized more than once, in a Baptist church setting. Baptists (all of us) push salvation at ridiculous ages (sometimes as young as 4). For a family that regularly attends church, I'm estimating the average age for a child to be "saved" and baptized is around 8. Even at 8, when you go regularly and have it pounded into your head over and over how you need to "have a daily walk with the Lord" and other oft quoted sentiments, it is a little traumatizing to get a little older and be subjected (and sometimes capitulate) to temptations. It's not uncommon at all for a Baptist child to come to an awareness that they aren't living up to what they agreed to, and have a moment of remorse and repentance. They either a) make a commitment to renew their "daily walk with God" and choose to be rebaptised as a symbol of their renewed faith. Or b) they say...(as apparently Josh did) "you know what? I was too young to understand what I was doing the first time. THIS time, I really, really accept the Lord, I'm really going to turn my life over to Him", and choose to be rebaptised. I myself was baptized twice, as were many of my friends. (Three or four times gets a little squidgy, but I absolutely understand how twice can happen).

I guess it's difficult to understand if you weren't raised there, and I apologize for the mud. It's just all about free will, and a decision to follow Christ. (And a whole lot of guilt).

I'm sort of assuming (not having seen the epi) that the Jordan River thing was, for most of them, just a dunking so they can add it to their resumes. Just something to say you did. Sort of like the baby dedication service J/D participated in with Izzy. For Baptists, that service isn't about protecting the baby, or making him "special to God". The purpose of that service is for the PARENTS to commit to raise him/her in a Godly manner. (And there's always a spot for the church body to voice their willingness to help raise that child to follow God as well). Like baptism, it's not binding, just something to say you did. It FWII, It doesn't make you any more or less clean to be baptized. It's a SYMBOLIC gesture that you have been forgiven for your sins (dead to sin, and reborn a new man). Baptism isn't (for BAPTISTS, oddly enough) meant to be a "cleansing", it's merely a public display that you have accepted Christ. There's no litmus test to prove the validity of your acceptance, and baptism and salvation are two completely separate events (again, speaking strictly of baptists).

I am also not a religion major or a scholar of any kind, this is strictly real-life experience for me.

 

Thanks! It's great to hear the various descriptions of how these things operate in real life.  (and this one makes me thrilled that I was in one of the infant-baptism, coupla years of classes then confirmation around 12 denominations; I was confused enough without this "maybe you should get baptized again" option...)

[Churchhoney]

But then, it's JB doing the dunking, and we all know he's not even a minister. So it's only a show. A show for them. A show for us. But those poor children obviously have NO church or theology to fall back on, for all of the rules they have to follow.

 

So ... no education, no job training, no wisdom or true affection imparted by close adults in their lives, no general knowledge, no solid experience of the wider world, no real friends outside the family and no church or theology either. Nice. I wonder if I'll ever stumble across anything that makes me feel these kids have not been horribly deprived and misserved. They were born to be props in photo ops. Apparently.

[GEML]

Ben's family certainly has theology. And it did sound, to me, that Jinger was talking in ways that sounded like a holiness theology (which would also gel with her desire to be in a city - many holiness movements have roots among the urban poor). So I do think they are getting a chance to talk to people who have what we as Christians would call "vision."

But you know the verse "he without a vision perishes". It might behoove the Duggars to take heed.

[jazzpno]

Okay, I don't follow these folks enough to know the personalities involved, but I'm not offended by Amy's registry. It seems in line with most 30-somethings that I'm familiar with (crystal decanters notwithstanding). She has surprisingly good taste compared to her wealthier cousins, and Dillard's is a good "middle of the road" type of store.

That said, she clearly doesn't adhere to the Duggar motto of buying used.

[Churchhoney]

Ben's family certainly has theology. And it did sound, to me, that Jinger was talking in ways that sounded like a holiness theology (which would also gel with her desire to be in a city - many holiness movements have roots among the urban poor). So I do think they are getting a chance to talk to people who have what we as Christians would call "vision."

But you know the verse "he without a vision perishes". It might behoove the Duggars to take heed.

 

Yes, Ben's family has given him quite a different background, I think. They do embrace a particular theology and they encouraged some external education. Before he came to Duggarland he tried a couple of actual real-world jobs, and as a teen he even met up with people outside his family to play sports. His parents also seemed to encourage actual friendship between him and his sisters, even as they passed puberty. I wonder whether he knows how different the Duggs' experience has been and whether it will eventually bother him, if it's the Duggar principles that start to shape his life and his young family's.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Churchhoney

[jazzpno]

 

I guess it's difficult to understand if you weren't raised there, and I apologize for the mud. It's just all about free will, and a decision to follow Christ. (And a whole lot of guilt).

...and fear. As I recall growing up in the Baptist church, there was a whole lot of "gotta get saved or you're going to HELL!" rhetoric being thrown around in Sunday School. At that time (late 60's, early 70's) there was a lot more focus on hellfire and brimstone and not nearly enough about God's love.

 

 

I am also not a religion major or a scholar of any kind, this is strictly real-life experience for me.

Yet you managed to communicate my Baptist upbringing perfectly. You've earned an honorary degree.

[sometimesy]

Wonder where that other twin is. The basketball one. Hope he isn't at Alert for masturbating or working in construction for being defrauded somehow.

[Catlyn]

I knock the Duggars for a lot of things, but, if I was super religious and went to Israel, I too, would want to be baptized in the river Jordan even if I was baptized in my church at home. It's a special place with special meaning. I'm surprised that only 8 wanted in. Of course, if it was Jim Bob doing the officiating, I would be scared he would mess up and drown me. He isn't the brightest Jim Bulb.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited because what I said wasn't so important that it needed to be bolded.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Catlyn

[GEML]

Well, I'm super religious, but my Baptism meant something to me, and I wouldn't want to be rebaptized anywhere.

When I was a child, it was not uncommon to have vials of water from the Jordan River as a special keepsake.

We also, as children, regularly played "baptism" when we went swimming. (Which we sometimes had to sneak off to do, depending on who we were with.)

[Skittl1321]

  

      I noticed in one of the pictures a boy is wearing a "Duggar Studio" t -shirt.     Except, there is a typo. It should say Duggar Stupido.

 

Why would Jim Bob make the shirts in Spanish?

 

 

Do people who aren't soap opera characters really use decanters? Can you picture Amy using a decanter?

Amy - no. Although if she drinks, maybe.W

We use a decanter because it helps open up red wines.

 

 

Well, I'm super religious, but my Baptism meant something to me, and I wouldn't want to be rebaptized anywhere.

I agree. I was baptised as an infant. I went to a new church for awhile that basically told me it didn't "count" and I'd have to have it redone. I told them that I thought it "counted" just fine and I wouldn't rebaptise, then stopped going to that church.  (Edit: This was not at baptist church.)

Edited August 2, 2015 by Skittl1321

[Sew Sumi]

Apparently Jason and Jed were baptized on Monday. I guess they keep rebaptizing until it sticks.

 

That Duggar Studios tee shirt lends super duper klass to the proceedings. I guess they need more money so all of the Howlers can have one. *eyeroll*

[Churchhoney]

Why Jim Bob make the shirts in Spanish?

 

 

He was planning a visit to Sweden. Olla.

[Sew Sumi]

Did anyone watch Jeopardy tonight? I was in another room, but I believe I heard re-baptism and Mennonites. Or maybe I just have Duggar-forum on the brain.

Yes, the answer to the rebaptism question was the Anabaptists. There was an entire religion category, but I forget how the Mennonites factored into it. 

[Sew Sumi]

Wonder where that other twin is. The basketball one. Hope he isn't at Alert for masturbating or working in construction for being defrauded somehow.

Actually, he IS at ALERT. I forget the training program, but alas, he is there. 

[Happyfatchick]

I agree. I was baptised as an infant. I went to a new church for awhile that basically told me it didn't "count" and I'd have to have it redone. I told them that I thought it "counted" just fine and I wouldn't rebaptise, then stopped going to that church.

I've been involved with a whole BUNCH of Baptist churches over time, and most of them encourage you to be re-baptized if you come in from another (even Protestant) faith when you join. baptist to Baptist is fine, but changing denominations gets you Baptised. It's not pushed as much as it was in the more strict churches I attended as a youngster, but is still a fairly common practice. Apparently, if you're sprinkled as a Methodist, you don't get wet enough.

For a short (but thoroughly enjoyable) time, I attended a Congressional Methodist church. Upon joining, I asked the minister what type of baptism they practiced. He said with a smirk, "we dunk 'em".

[GEML]

I was a member of a Baptist church (not Southern Baptist, but close, and in the South) that did not require us to be re-baptized. This included my son, who had been baptized as an infant.

It can really vary by congregation.

Edited July 31, 2015 by GEML

[Flowers]

I'm just remembering this, after having just read something about "which Duggar will be courting next." On the season 1 Bates finale (I think) there was a part where most of the Bates were asked, semi-separately (TH sessions) if a Duggar-Bates wedding would be in the future. This was filmed before the Josh news came out.

Most of them have what I interpreted as knowing looks and said things along the lines of "yes" and "definitely."

Now I'm wondering who that would've been. Enough time has passed that we'd have now started seeing pics on Instagram or elsewhere. "Oh isn't that Jinger out with Nathan / Joe out with Tori, in that photo" kind of thing.

[CofCinci]

Actually, he IS at ALERT. I forget the training program, but alas, he is there.

Wonder what he did to be sent away?

[Flowers]

(I was using the names as examples, not specifying that the actual kids named would be a potential couple.)

[Ljohnson1987]

Happy Birthday Jennifer! So sorry that your sister-mom fled the country, and can't spend your special day with you. Hope your parents remember you today.

[truthtalk2014]

For the Duggars it stops being unheard of when it can become an episode or two.     

      I noticed in one of the pictures a boy is wearing a "Duggar Studio" t -shirt.     Except, there is a typo. It should say Duggar Stupido.

I want to ask them if they have any used ones for sale.  All their preaching about going to Goodwill and buying used and they try and have their "fans" buy an overpriced new shirt that they probably purchased for $1 from China.

 

Oh wait, you are supporting more awesome videos such as this one.  LMAO

 

[Defrauder]

Happy Birthday Jennifer! So sorry that your sister-mom fled the country, and can't spend your special day with you. Hope your parents remember you today.

Jennifer has parents?

[Westiepeach]

Jennifer has parents?

You now owe me a new keyboard!

[kokapetl]

Jennifer has parents?

A foster parent, yes.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Churchhoney]

Jennifer has parents?

 

Somebody gave her a birthday party. I may be missing something, but I don't see any Duggar-related adults in the photos, though. Not even Sierra. (How did that happen?)

 

https://www.facebook.com/duggarfamilyofficial

 

The oldest person I recognize is Josiah. With no Marjorie visible, by the by.

 

https://www.facebook.com/duggarfamilyofficial/photos/pb.510067475793573.-2207520000.1438549646./692071257593193/?type=1&theater

[BitterApple]

Funny they describe Jenny as loving and fun, when to me she's always come off as more of a studious introvert. I'm guessing they use the same catch phrases with each child though, so I shouldn't be surprised they totally mischaracterized their daughter.

I'm glad Jenny got a party at least and she is certainly one gorgeous girl.

Edited August 2, 2015 by BitterApple

[RazzleberryPie]

Funny they describe Jenny as loving and fun, when to me she's always come off as more of a studious introvert. I'm guessing they use the same catch phrases with each child though, so I shouldn't be surprised they totally mischaracterized their daughter.

I'm glad Jenny got a party at least and she is certainly one gorgeous girl.

Jenny is the prettiest one out of the whole bunch, in my opinion. I agree that she does seem intelligent and introverted, and very aware of her environment. Isn't she the one that seems to have zero interest in babydolls and diapering, etc.? That doesn't mean she isn't loving and fun, but that's not the first thing I'd think of to describe her.

 

Honestly, JimBob and Michelle don't have a clue as to most of their kids' personalities, and they're just going to spew off whatever wisdom book character traits they think makes it sound like they're successful parents. They're going to describe the girls as sweet, caring, fun, obedient, and the boys as adventurous, protective, strong, handy, etc. 

[kokapetl]

Funny they describe Jenny as loving and fun, when to me she's always come off as more of a studious introvert. I'm guessing they use the same catch phrases with each child though, so I shouldn't be surprised they totally mischaracterized their daughter.

I'm glad Jenny got a party at least and she is certainly one gorgeous girl.

Once she's grown up, Jenny will make Jessa look like Jill. It's nice to see her (sort of) smiling at her party

Usually she's so serious looking.

I like Jackson's irrepressible nature.

[Vaysh]

I rather worry about Jordyn these days; I wonder what is going on with her. In every single picture or video I've seen of her lately she looks so troubled. Forced grin, frowny eyebrows, stuttery talk, unkempt hair. She just looks miserable, in every sense of the word. Was Jessa really the only one who gave a shit about the poor kid? And now that Jessa's gone, everyone's ignoring Jordyn? I'm not even a kid person but seriously I'd grab that girl up and adopt her if I could.

[kokapetl]

I rather worry about Jordyn these days; I wonder what is going on with her. In every single picture or video I've seen of her lately she looks so troubled. Forced grin, frowny eyebrows, stuttery talk, unkempt hair. She just looks miserable, in every sense of the word. Was Jessa really the only one who gave a shit about the poor kid? And now that Jessa's gone, everyone's ignoring Jordyn? I'm not even a kid person but seriously I'd grab that girl up and adopt her if I could.

I don't think Jessa really gave a shit.

With the show over, and with Michelle's reproductive organs having given up the ghost, I think Michelle's gonna fixate on Josie and smother her with attention, which frees up Jana to give Jordyn some decent attention.

[Churchhoney]

Was Jessa really the only one who gave a shit about the poor kid? And now that Jessa's gone, everyone's ignoring Jordyn?

 

She really does look like a waif. Poor little thing.

 

Photo evidence has long suggested that Jessa's been over at the house and otherwise hanging out with the fam a lot even in her wedded bliss. Seems as if she could have gone right on giving Jordyn attention. Jill hung in there with her buddy group, at least until she went off to be an expat. Of course, it's ridiculous that they have to do this for their siblings, when those kids have parents. Too bad the parents had 19 damn kids, making most of them effectively orphans.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Churchhoney