The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy

[GEML]

I don't get it. The Fundy families I know can cook. They cook because they HAVE to. They are large families that need to eat, and cooking, REAL cooking, is the cheapest and easiest way to feed them.

[Nysha]

It depends on what is being made. Rice, beans, and bread are cheaper to make at home, but I can buy canned spaghetti sauce on sale for 75 cents a can along with large bag of spaghetti noodles for $1.50, combine that with 4/$1.00 canned veggies and fruit and I've made a meal for 6 for under $3.

[GEML]

I've actually never argued that real cooking means only fresh ingredients. Canned food can definitely be part of real cooking, and canning is almost always part of historically feeding a large family.

[louannems]

We only had 7 in our family and we were always cooking up large batches of food and bakery items. I've seen the huge pots hhanging in the Duggar's industrial kitchen, but they never seem to cook. An egg here and there and kids fending for themselves on instant expensive oatmeal packets and white bread balogna sandwiches and how often have we seen a sit down meal with the whole family. I realized they rarely eat real food when the oldest girls acted like they had never cut or touched raw meat in the Dinner Theater episode. And recently they made pizza using tiny packets of pre shredded cheese and the tiniest bag of flour I have ever seen. Again, these were staple items bought in large bags at our modest sized home.

[GeeGolly]

I was thinking that I'm guilty of lazy meals on occasion (cereal for dinner, cold pizza for breakfast, etc), however if cameras were around I would make an effort to display our healthy side. Then I realized either there is no healthy eating to be shown or those film shots were shown on purpose either by the Duggars or the film crew.

[kalamac]

I also go the lazy meal route a couple of times a week, when I get home from work tired, and just can't be bothered to have anything but toast or nachos for dinner, but I do make an effort most nights, and I would think that with all their free time, and considering Jana went to Weight Watchers for a while which would have taught her a bit about nutrition, and given her some recipes, there'd be more of an effort on the part of the Duggars to make some decent food.

[ChocolateAddict]

When I watched the 16 Kids and Moving In special, it surprised me how proud they were of the kitchen equipment that we have never seen them use. Especially the commercial dishwasher which Mechelle was crowing can "wash a whole tray of dishes in 3mins!" and they clearly haven't used given the amount of paper plates they go through. 

Occasionally they have shown them cooking, like when Jill made bread rolls and it was a massive deal.  But the fact that they constantly seem to eat processed crap off paper plates is, IMO, another example of Mechelle's poor parenting.  With so many girls (because the boys obviously wouldn't be cooking), it wouldn't be that difficult to make a large scale healthy meal once a day.  If they went to a farmer's market once a week they could get boxes of fresh fruit and vegetables which, in the long run, would be cheaper than relying on instant food.  Ditto with meat, I know families that buy 50kg in one go because it is much, much cheaper and freeze it.  If they focused less on "buy used and save the difference" and looked at "buy in bulk and eat healthy", they would be much better off.  

[NEGirl]

I have been grossed out by the Duggar's "meals" since they were first shown being cooked on tv. JB has enought money to give all his children a healthy breakfast, lunch and dinner. There is no excuse other than being cheap and lazy for the crap they serve/eat.  JB, J'Chelle and Josh probablyall have HBP and high cholst. due to their diet.  I am sure we all know people with much less money who sacrifice to make sure their kids eat healthy meals. I came from a big family and we had healthy, home cooked meals every night.  We all snark on Ben, but at least it appears he was raised eating healthy meals based on the food he cooks and Jessa posts on her FB page. If I had to eat at that house I would starve. Small wonder when they show the younger kids like Jackson diving into fruit when it's served(for the camera).

Edited June 29, 2015 by NEGirl

[kandinski]

I remember a while ago,lots of rumours online that Michelle never did any cooking,then as if by magic a few episodes later she is seen cooking that one egg in a pan!

[Churchhoney]

I also go the lazy meal route a couple of times a week, when I get home from work tired, and just can't be bothered to have anything but toast or nachos for dinner, but I do make an effort most nights, and I would think that with all their free time, and considering Jana went to Weight Watchers for a while which would have taught her a bit about nutrition, and given her some recipes, there'd be more of an effort on the part of the Duggars to make some decent food.

 

I think nachos made with a goodly helping of black beans -- from two or three industrial-sized cans -- and a nice load of tomatoes and peppers could be a solid step up from a lot of what I hear the Duggars eat. Nutritious, tasty and still easy enough to be done in hurry by people with jobs, schools to go to and so on.

 

Which brings up the usual questions: Why are they so uncreative about everything, including dinner? And what the heck do they all do with their time?

[lookeyloo]

Good question, Churchhoney - what exactly do they do all day?  The older boys might work for JB on his "house flipping" business, but haven't they said it is "too hot" to play outside?  Probably what they mean is that people with cameras are at their property.  They stay up late, sleep late, but what goes on in between?  Homefoolin' can't take that long.  They don't read much, no TV, we don't see many toys unless they don't appear when filming is taking place.  They just seem to laze about, run through the house, and...what else?  Or is there more going on we don't see, based on Jana's statement I read on here that they were only filmed 2-3 hours a day 2-3 times a week.  A mystery for sure.

[riverblue22]

I think they do have toys but they are in the playroom.  I have seen the playroom on tours but they never film there.  I imagine it is a complete mess full of a pile of broken toys and scooters.  There are probably baby dolls and toy kitchens for the girls to play with and imagine their futures.  I think they spend the days roaming around and playing with their siblings.  At least they get exercise and they aren't  like so many kids today planted in front of a video game.

[GEML]

I think the older girls and Michelle just sit around talking. I think Michelle enjoys having adult daughters who dote on her, and none of them do a lot of work. There is probably some kind of meal prepared for Jim Bob, but everyone else pretty much fends for him/herself.

[kokapetl]

They clearly spend a ton of time on Pinterest,

[CofCinci]

They spend a lot of time maintaining their countenance or whatever 18th century term they use for tanning, hair, and makeup. They spend at least an hour a day on those curls.

[kokapetl]

They spend a lot of time maintaining their countenance or whatever 18th century term they use for tanning, hair, and makeup. They spend at least an hour a day on those curls.

This made me picture Ingrid Thulin being dressed by the servant in Cries and Whispers. Michelle clearly didn't cut herself. Edited June 29, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Fuzzysox]

I keep asking where Jinger is??? Did they secretly marry her off or did she finally run away? Answers I need answers!

[Sew Sumi]

I guess I'll drop this here. Looks like Deanna Duggar Jordan was yet another victim of abuse who ended up MARRYING her abuser. These people! 

 

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/amy-duggar-mom-deanna-jordan-restraining-order-against-husband-terry-jordan/

[GEML]

I'm never sure what to make of situations like these. There may have been details such as drugs or alcohol involved that explain the marriage years later, for instance. Or even a good, old fashioned conversion.

But it does seem to add another small piece to a domestic world that Jim Bob saw as being one of fearful men who were out of control. You can see him wanting to be the big cheese, but just not cut out for it. In steps the Gothard lifestyle - and there you are.

[GeeGolly]

I am not really on board with digging up people's pasts just because they are on TV.

[Flowers]

I am not really on board with digging up people's pasts just because they are on TV.

Didn't Amy mention this herself?

[kokapetl]

I'm never sure what to make of situations like these. There may have been details such as drugs or alcohol involved that explain the marriage years later, for instance. Or even a good, old fashioned conversion.

But it does seem to add another small piece to a domestic world that Jim Bob saw as being one of fearful men who were out of control. You can see him wanting to be the big cheese, but just not cut out for it. In steps the Gothard lifestyle - and there you are.

I'd like to think that Terry is not innately like that. A threat in 1992, and a previous one in 1988 at Amy's birth (her paternity is uncertain), plenty of average people say stupid things in the heat of anger, and there's been no reported violence ever or anything since '92. Amy turned out out well adjusted, if camera seeking, and Deanna and Terry eventually married. Edited July 2, 2015 by Kokapetl

[GEML]

I Strongly dislike labeling someone for something in their past when there is no evidence that they are that now, and it is not the people they once harmed coming forth with the information to give such a label.

[Sew Sumi]

By the same token, we should all just look the other way at what Josh did. Sorry, I can't do that. 

[kokapetl]

By the same token, we should all just look the other way at what Josh did. Sorry, I can't do that.

Sexual abuse tends to be committed by family members, not by strangers in sketchy vans. When it occurs it shouldn't be ignored, but harsh life ruining punishment to family members is an incentive to ignore it. 4/5 of Josh's victims were his siblings, and they seem to value the integrity of their family over retribution that would destroy their family.

[GEML]

In every single post of mine, you will see that I say Josh sexually assaulted or molested his sisters.

That is not the same as saying Josh IS something. One is a verb, the other is a noun. It's a subtle difference, but one I take seriously, with all people who do seem to have made big changes in their lives.

[GeeGolly]

In every single post of mine, you will see that I say Josh sexually assaulted or molested his sisters.

That is not the same as saying Josh IS something. One is a verb, the other is a noun. It's a subtle difference, but one I take seriously, with all people who do seem to have made big changes in their lives.

It is one I take seriously too. No parent of a child with Autism wants their child referred to as Autistic.  (that is just another example, I KNOW Josh did something and a child w/Autism DID NOT)

 

Please see post below before the attack.

Edited July 3, 2015 by GeeGolly

[GeeGolly]

We are all a sum of many parts, both good & bad.  Josh effed up in a very egregious way. There is no evidence however that this behavior continued. And I think it is unfair, even to Josh, to label him.

 

Also, I'm sure DCF has been in close contact with Josh's family. There is no way they are going to allow his children to be around him if there is any risk. And there should be no way we would know if they are investigating, if DCF is doing their job properly.

Edited July 3, 2015 by GeeGolly

[GEML]

GeeGolly - my feelings come out of close contact with special needs as well. And also working with young offenders (some as young as Josh) that I know really did turn their lives around. It doesn't minimize what they did, or, in the cases or special needs, the conditions that shape lives, but I personally don't want to be thought of as only one aspect of my own life (even the GOOD things!) let alone something awful I did long ago, or something I struggle with, or something that sets me apart from other people in a way that others may not always see as positive. (Recognizing that not all people with special needs see it, themselves, as a negative.)

[GeeGolly]

GeeGolly - my feelings come out of close contact with special needs as well. And also working with young offenders (some as young as Josh) that I know really did turn their lives around. It doesn't minimize what they did, or, in the cases or special needs, the conditions that shape lives, but I personally don't want to be thought of as only one aspect of my own life (even the GOOD things!) let alone something awful I did long ago, or something I struggle with, or something that sets me apart from other people in a way that others may not always see as positive. (Recognizing that not all people with special needs see it, themselves, as a negative.)

Couldn't have said it better.  :)

[Ilovemylabs]

I agree with GEML and GeeGolly.  What Josh did at age 14 was egregious (and legally criminal I guess) but I personally do believe that he is not that same person.  For all I disagree with him and think he WAS a little smug, I believe he is a changed person and a loving husband and father.  I also would hate to be judged only by some of the things I did as a younger person.  Those acts are not the sum total of the person I am today.  And speaking from personal experience with one of my own kids, I know for a fact that change is possible. 

[Darknight]

Some people don't change. Rape, murder and molestation are the worse things you can do. Society doesn't easily forgive child molesters. Even in prison that's the bottom of the barrel. Can people change? Yes. But it's hard for me to feel bad for Josh when he tried to take other people's rights away. Or used his children as a political move. I don't know if he changed. The only thing I feel sorry for is being born to shitty parents in a shitty cult.

[fliptopbox]

Since when is it offensive to call a spade a spade?

[FakeJoshDuggar]

We are all a sum of many parts, both good & bad. Josh effed up in a very egregious way. There is no evidence however that this behavior continued. And I think it is unfair, even to Josh, to label him.

Also, I'm sure DCF has been in close contact with Josh's family. There is no way they are going to allow his children to be around him if there is any risk. And there should be no way we would know if they are investigating, if DCF is doing their job properly.

Those are some serious rose colored glasses. The difference between a child molester and your straw man of a child who is on the Autism spectrum is that one is a choice and the other is not.

At 14 and 15, Josh knew damn well what he was doing was wrong. According to the original DHS report, Josh was physically disciplined (which means Jim Bob probably beat the shit out of him... and what do we expect coming from people who hit infants?) Yet Josh still chose to touch his sisters until he got down to his five year old sister. There's nothing "curious" about a kindergarten aged child's genitalia.

Also, unless there is a valid tip saying that Josh has molested one of his children, there's no basis for DHS to intervene. Because of his parent's conspiratorial felonious attempts to hide Josh's crimes, that's the reason he's not registered as a sex offender, which he should have been since he admitted to the molestation years after.

People with children need to know that they have subjected their children, during various events and even privately, to Josh Duggar, Child Molester™. Predators like Josh don't just change because they helped remodel a building for a few months. They don't change when the only counseling they received was from another person accused of sexual misconduct with underage girls.

Edited July 4, 2015 by FakeJoshDuggar

[FakeJoshDuggar]

I agree with GEML and GeeGolly. What Josh did at age 14 was egregious (and legally criminal I guess) but I personally do believe that he is not that same person. For all I disagree with him and think he WAS a little smug, I believe he is a changed person and a loving husband and father. I also would hate to be judged only by some of the things I did as a younger person. Those acts are not the sum total of the person I am today. And speaking from personal experience with one of my own kids, I know for a fact that change is possible.

Criminals are judged all the time by things they did in their youth. Have you no idea how many people sit in jail cells sentenced for life based on crimes that happened when they were fifteen? They are murderers, rapists, and worse. So according to this logic if a fifteen year old kills someone, doesn't get caught, and goes on to have a family, society should just cut them some slack when their crimes come to light?

Sometimes what you do defines who you are. In this case, Josh Duggar, Child Molester™ stood upon hundreds of podiums and announced that LBGT men and women were child abusers based on their sexual identity. All while painting the LGBT community with the same brush, he himself was a child abuser.

So (at least for me) until the day he dies, no matter what good deeds he does, he will be a child molester. If for no other reason that his victims still have to live with the abuse.

Edited July 4, 2015 by FakeJoshDuggar

[GeeGolly]

Those are some serious rose colored glasses. The difference between a child molester and your straw man of a child who is on the Autism spectrum is that one is a choice and the other is not.

At 14 and 15, Josh knew damn well what he was doing was wrong. According to the original DHS report, Josh was physically disciplined (which means Jim Bob probably beat the shit out of him... and what do we expect coming from people who hit infants?) Yet Josh still chose to touch his sisters until he got down to his five year old sister. There's nothing "curious" about a kindergarten aged child's genitalia.

Also, unless there is a valid tip saying that Josh has molested one of his children, there's no basis for DHS to intervene. Because of his parent's conspiratorial felonious attempts to hide Josh's crimes, that's the reason he's not registered as a sex offender, which he should have been since he admitted to the molestation years after.

People with children need to know that they have subjected their children, during various events and even privately, to Josh Duggar, Child Molester™. Predators like Josh don't just change because they helped remodel a building for a few months. They don't change when the only counseling they received was from another person accused of sexual misconduct with underage girls.

I clearly stated the difference between my examples. And nope, no rose colored glasses. I am a Clinician and work with folks of all walks of life. People change all the time and I see it through my reality colored glasses all the time. Josh would most likely be investigated now, tips don't have to be called in, the publicity alone would warrant a visit with the family (although I would think a number of Duggar haters would have called DCF anyway). And there is also no guarantee that Josh would have had to register as a sex offender. These are my speculations based of years of experience of working with, like I stated above, folks of all walks of life. 

[Farmfam]

I agree with GEML and GeeGolly, while understanding and respecting the opposing point of view (FakeJoshDuggar).

What he did, criminally wrong, at 14 is a fact. Years later, he is shown to be a good father and husband and not a danger to his children or siblings. Again, that's a (presented) fact. Until I hear otherwise that the behavior is continuing I must think he is a changed person today.

I equate this to a cheater in a relationship. An adult can make a choice to be unfaithful. However, that isn't always the end of the original relationship. Reconciliation can happen, and when that occurs, 15 years later I wouldn't call that person a cheater anymore. In the past, yes, but they have moved past it.

[DangerousMinds]

I think it may have gone either way with Josh; he could still have molester tendencies, or not. But since he was never properly evaluated or received appropriate counseling as a teen, we'll likely never know.

[JoanArc]

Addicts that have been clean for decades are still addicts, molesters that stopped actively molesting are still molesters. The opposing arguments are all dolled up versions of the crap leg humpers spew - he was just 14, Jesus fixed it, we all make mistakes, it was dealt with, we should forgive, etc. Study molestation - if it's escalating it rarely ends on it's own, and Josh NEVER got credible treatment. It's nice to look to the good side of people, and to want to forgive, and to assume someone had some kind of religious transformation. Then shit gets real.

 

Honestly, Josh Duggar, Child Molester™ shouldn't EVER be left alone around children, even if he's a changed man. I believe a reformed, insightful, humble, conciliatory ex-molester would agree to those terms. it's just necessary.

[Aethera]

This is the Other Duggars thread, so this conversation is completely off-topic.  It also seems to have run its course, and in fact, we've had it several times. We have no proof Josh is still molesting anyone, and no proof he is not. We're not going to solve this question without further disclosures.

 

I understand the semantics argument being made, but I don't think we're going to get anywhere continuing. People are allowed to be angry with him now whether he's reformed himself or not, and are allowed to believe he's a bad person. People are also allowed to forgive him and believe that he's a good person. Let's agree to disagree, please!

[Absolom]

I am not really on board with digging up people's pasts just because they are on TV.

It goes along with being a public figure.  Before someone becomes one, they should think of what is likely to come out.  They can't be "news" only in the present.  Reporting just doesn't work that way.  I know many people who never read articles about movie or TV stars because details of their private lives might ruin enjoyment of watching movies or TV shows.  The Duggars didn't seem to give much thought to what information they might not want published or were arrogant enough to think Jim Bob could control the media. 

 

I would have sympathy with Deanna and her family for this coming out, but she and Amy have been on the show and actively sought a show for herself, grandma, and Amy.  If you want to keep your life private, you don't go out and seek a TV show.  Reporters and viewers will look into your history.  It's part of the territory that Deanna and company deliberately sought out. 

Edited July 6, 2015 by Absolom

[FakeJoshDuggar]

Want to know why In Touch Weekly doesn't have a picture of my face on its cover and why no one gives a sh*t about what I do? Cause I'm not on television. I don't stand on lofty pedestals and hold my life up as an example to the masses. That's why people care. That's why it's news.

[Joe Jitsu913]

So I guess Amy's Bio father isn't Terry Jordan.

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/amy-duggar-terry-jordan-not-real-father/

[kokapetl]

So I guess Amy's Bio father isn't Terry Jordan.

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/amy-duggar-terry-jordan-not-real-father/

Someone also ticked a box stating that the respondent and the minor (who the petition was filed on behalf of) 'are parent and child'.

The Daily Mail had an article about Amy's paternity being uncertain, it was published before shit hit the fan with Josh.

Now I want to see Amy's birth certificate. I'm an Amy birther.

[zenme]

Well, I guess we know why we've only very rarely seen Terry Jordan. The all-forgiving Jimbo and Michelle probably despise him. Also explains why Deanna and St. Michelle never seem particularly close. I guess they're not wholesome enough.

[GEML]

Michelle isn't close to anyone.

And I have to admit, I'm not at all interested in this story. I don't think Amy or anyone in her family has ever tried to be self-righteous or judgmental about anyone else, unlike Jim Bob and Michelle, so I'm really not sure what there is to be gained in digging it up.

[kokapetl]

Michelle isn't close to anyone.

And I have to admit, I'm not at all interested in this story. I don't think Amy or anyone in her family has ever tried to be self-righteous or judgmental about anyone else, unlike Jim Bob and Michelle, so I'm really not sure what there is to be gained in digging it up.

I agree. Terry and Deanna have a well adjusted, happy, camera seeking daughter, and maladjusted, camera seeking, judgmental inlaws, but they are neither camera seeking or judgmental preachy types themselves. Edited July 6, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Bella]

This is another caution against trying to tease out the identity of the fifth victim and/or the person who is considering filing a complaint against Josh. This includes the "it could have been X" line of discussion.

 

The way things have gone, we're likely to learn that eventually. But in the mean time, it is unfair to speculate about who may or may not have been involved.

 

If you have any questions, PM a mod (or two, since we're all in and out of here due to summer, work commitments, etc.).

 

Thanks!

[Sew Sumi]

So I guess Amy's Bio father isn't Terry Jordan.

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/amy-duggar-terry-jordan-not-real-father/

I could see her lying here, especially since this was a time when their relationship was especially volatile. Famy has recognized him as her father for as long as she's had a voice on the show and/or social media. I guess we have to petition them to go on Maury so we can find out once and for all. 

[Ljohnson1987]

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/duggar-std-scandal-jim-bob-brother-terry-jordan-accused-infecting-woman-herpes-lawsuit/?utm_source=Star&utm_medium=AMIPartner&utm_campaign=JULY

 

Wow. Terry Jordan gave someone herpes.