The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy

[Vaysh]

For someone who supposedly loves his kids, Boob is fantastically inept at actually taking care of them. He doesn't teach them, he doesn't feed them and after almost three decades of being a parent, he can't even brush their hair effectively. Compared to every dad I know, Jim Boob appears incredibly detached from his kids' daily lives.

 

What exactly is it that Jim Bob does for a living beyond TLC? I've never managed to figure that one out. Like, what does he do all day that stops him from learning how to brush his kids' hair or cook them a few meals once in a while? I've read that he makes money off of some rents and this mystical cell phone tower I keep hearing about, but does he actually work in any way?

[3girlsforus]

I was thinking the same thing. There are a lot of complaint here, and rightly so, that Michele seems to do very little with her days but I also wonder what Jim Bob does. How does he spend his time? How is he patterning responsible manhood to his sons or do they just see him sitting around being catered to by the women all day? 

Edited April 4, 2015 by 3girlsforus

[roamyn]

For someone who supposedly loves his kids, Boob is fantastically inept at actually taking care of them. He doesn't teach them, he doesn't feed them and after almost three decades of being a parent, he can't even brush their hair effectively. Compared to every dad I know, Jim Boob appears incredibly detached from his kids' daily lives.

What exactly is it that Jim Bob does for a living beyond TLC? I've never managed to figure that one out. Like, what does he do all day that stops him from learning how to brush his kids' hair or cook them a few meals once in a while? I've read that he makes money off of some rents and this mystical cell phone tower I keep hearing about, but does he actually work in any way?

I would have to disagree w/this.

We've seen numerous times that JB is spending with the younger girls: coloring, craft projects. And going with the howlers and older kids in outside activities.

He may be alot of scum, but he clearly spends more time with the kids than Meechelle does.

And JB owns alot of property. He rents some out. There's much more to owning property than collecting rent & repairs.

[Wellfleet]

I would have to disagree w/this.

We've seen numerous times that JB is spending with the younger girls: coloring, craft projects. And going with the howlers and older kids in outside activities.

He may be alot of scum, but he clearly spends more time with the kids than Meechelle does.

And JB owns alot of property. He rents some out. There's much more to owning property than collecting rent & repairs.

 

What more is involved? I'm not trying to be snippy - I'm truly wondering. My SIL's mom has owned and rented about a dozen properties at last count - both residential and commercial. Some with buildings on the land, and some just acreage. In the 25 years I've known her she speaks only about collecting rent, dealing with tenants, repairs and maintenance. I think she meets once a month with her lawyer and her accountant, separately. I'm trying to think of what else would need doing.

[GEML]

I think Jim Bob owns a fairly sizable amount of rentable properties now, and the older boys do maintenance and such, but I do think he likely worked pretty hard to get them up and running. We've seen that he buys properties in pretty rundown condition and refurbishes them. That's not easy to do.

But right now I imagine he and Michelle spend a lot of time working with the TLC team. This isn't just a bunch of people coming in and filming. These are small crafted vignettes of their lives planned in advance. That takes a lot of time. And as we've seen from watching JB on the campaign trail, he also seems to need to to write out and practice his lines for the speaking parts and THs.

[Sew Sumi]

(Taking to the JB and M thread)

[Vaysh]

 

    I would have to disagree w/this.

 

    We've seen numerous times that JB is spending with the younger girls: coloring, craft projects. And going with the howlers and older kids in outside activities.

 

    He may be alot of scum, but he clearly spends more time with the kids than Meechelle does.

 

Well, that's not exactly hard now is it? ;)

 

But all those things you mention are... play stuff. Not actually taking care of his kids. I guess I'm just used to dads being more involved in their children's daily lives. As in making them breakfast, dressing them, fixing their hair, helping with homework et cetera AS WELL AS playing with them and doing crafts projects. With JB we only ever see the fun things and occasional outings and whenever he tries to "babysit" as they so appallingly put it, he flounders with simple things like making a ponytail or cooking a simple meal, which tells me that these are not things he's used to doing.

 

Like many, I think the younger Duggar kids view Jim Bob and Michelle more like grandparents and their sisters like their true parents.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Vaysh

[GEML]

There was one very telling comment, I thought, when Michelle said that Jim Bob didn't have any hobbies, his hobby was his kids. I think that is dead on. He doesn't have the attention span to keep to a hobby (or even one child) but doing all sorts of fun things with his kids is his hobby.

[JoanArc]

He'll be 11 next month. 2 grades behind?

 

[3girlsforus]

Wow - he's only in the 4th grade???? That would be a violation of homeschooling laws in VA. Without documented cause (severe learning issues, developmental problems etc) kids must be registered as a typical grade for their age. That still gives a wide span. For example turning 11 this late in the year would make it ok for him to be going into 5th or 6th but definitely not 4th. 

[msblossom]

Remember, Jackson and Math don't like each other...

[3girlsforus]

My youngest (12 this summer) and math don't like each other either. It gives me fits and I can't tell you how much time I've spent worrying and crying over it. She has ADD and her learning issues from that all manifest themselves in the math arena. Abstract thinking and word problems are not her friend. But we solider on. We work diligently and we are making progress. She's officially a 6th grader this year and is above grade level in most things but math she's still working mid 6th grade and that's a major improvement. If she was in public school I would have kept from starting school so she'd be in 5th. She's currently on the young side for her grade but that would have made her on the older side. Because we homeschool I can keep working with her and allow her maturing to grow. 

 

But if she was 2 grades behind to the point where I was calling her 2 grade behind, we would be doing something serious about it. 

[Vaysh]

When do American kids start first grade? At six? Five? I read the post above and thought, well that's not too bad, but then I realised that while we start school the year we turn seven the American system is a bit different. Could it be that he started school a year later because he wasn't mature enough? He always hangs out with his younger sisters rather than his older brothers which may have, not exactly stunted him, but kept him a little immature for his age, especially since he never had access to pre-school.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Vaysh

[3girlsforus]

Americans in general start Kindergarten at age 5 while being allowed to wait as long as to age 6 if they have later birthdays. It's done by state. In VA where I live the cut off for school is turn 5 by Sept 30. The majority of kids will start therefore kids who are 10 years old and turning 11 would be currently finishing 5th grade. However, Jackson's birthday is the end of May so it's closer to the cut off than those kids born in the winter. Some parents choose to wait to start school for these later birthdays. That is allowed. So he would be turning 6 the year he starts K and would be finishing 4th grade now. That would be the lowest grade he would be allowed to be in for his age. But this says he's just starting 4th grade and is therefore finishing 3rd grade. That is well below the appropriate grade for his age.

[GEML]

3girls - I hear you. My son and writing at that age (sixth grade) were just not happening. He went to public school, but was in special education, and had a teacher who basically was teaching him one on one, and then there was me working with him at home. I didn't know if we'd ever make it, but he did turn the corner and went on to do really well in writing. It's the individual attention that makes that happen. A lot of individual attention.

And no, doing flash cards with his sister mom isn't going to make that happen.

Edited April 5, 2015 by GEML

[JoanArc]

For reference - James is further behind than Jackson, but 2 years older! Funny we never hear of any j'kids ABOVE grade level in anything. Just because they stop education at 16 doesn't mean everyone's so damn advanced. In school I was bad at math, too. Mostly from poor teaching, I actually got good at it later in life, but I was far ahead in reading and writing (12 grade level in 8th grade).

 

I'm sure they'll just cook up a some false indignation and crocodile tears about a 'learning disability' they're working hard to overcome, and that'll be the end of it.

 

Please media, pick up on the education. For the kid's sake!

[pinguina]

Wow!  Eleven and starting fourth grade??   When I saw him with flashcards (stuff my third graders have been working on consistently all year - some are finishing their "twelves" and starting division facts) , he seemed a little older but by over two years? - some of  my students are 8 going on 9, others just turned 9.  

When I saw this I couldn't help but wonder "What about reading level?  Science units?  Social Studies units? Writing skills?" (My third graders are working on three paragraph opinions, narratives, and explanatory writing.)  

I've known some people who do not value formal education but their children are still learning through explicit experiences, specific lessons (using money at the store, measuring things, etc), indirect lessons.  This family seems to not care about any type of learning (let's not count their learning from professionals) - what will happen when they are no longer on television? If they lose their property?  If the "head" of the house dies? What will they all do?  How will they support themselves?

[Joe Jitsu913]

Wow! Eleven and starting fourth grade?? When I saw him with flashcards (stuff my third graders have been working on consistently all year - some are finishing their "twelves" and starting division facts) , he seemed a little older but by over two years? - some of my students are 8 going on 9, others just turned 9.

When I saw this I couldn't help but wonder "What about reading level? Science units? Social Studies units? Writing skills?" (My third graders are working on three paragraph opinions, narratives, and explanatory writing.)

I've known some people who do not value formal education but their children are still learning through explicit experiences, specific lessons (using money at the store, measuring things, etc), indirect lessons. This family seems to not care about any type of learning (let's not count their learning from professionals) - what will happen when they are no longer on television? If they lose their property? If the "head" of the house dies? What will they all do? How will they support themselves?

The Lord will provide.

[3girlsforus]

It's a little confusing to me why they don't try to cover that a little more. The thing with homeschooling is that you teach the child where they are and don't need to focus on grade level. This is usually considered a huge plus. Advanced kids can study ahead and kids who struggle with a subject, like my daughter with math, can work how she needs to without being held back in other subjects. But you don't usually adjust the grade you call your child based on their school work. I have a 15 year old who is doing Calculus, Advanced Chemistry and three classes at a university. But I still call her a sophomore, not a senior or college student which would be more in line with her work level. Just like I don't need to downgrade my 11 year old because her math is on the lower end of grade level. If Jackson is struggling with just math I would expect them to continue to call him his appropriate grade while continuing to work to improve the math. But the fact that they are openly calling him just starting 4th grade makes me think he's behind in all areas. 

 

He's doing online schooling. Is that correct? I can guarantee that is not going to work if he's struggling. I used a computer based math program for 1 1/2 years with my daughter (not the one I believe the Duggars are using). It was good for her because it engaged her, held her interest, was kind of fun - basically it made something she considered beyond torturous, tolerable and gave her some self-esteem and confidence about math which was absolutely crucial to making progress and being able to move to a more traditional math program. HOWEVER... the key to it not only being fun and giving her confidence etc but also to make sure she was learning the concepts was that I had to sit next to her at all times. I had to watch how they worked the problems, re-explain the lessons when she didn't quite understand, give her tips and above all keep her focused. I can't count how many times a day I say 'focus' - and not just with math. You can not just sit an elementary student in front of a computer and say 'go for it'. 

 

I'm starting to get irritated... Have I mentioned before how annoyed it makes me that the Duggars are a national face for homeschooling?? These people are an embarrassment to dedicated homeschoolers. 

[msblossom]

It's a little confusing to me why they don't try to cover that a little more. The thing with homeschooling is that you teach the child where they are and don't need to focus on grade level. This is usually considered a huge plus. Advanced kids can study ahead and kids who struggle with a subject, like my daughter with math, can work how she needs to without being held back in other subjects. But you don't usually adjust the grade you call your child based on their school work. I have a 15 year old who is doing Calculus, Advanced Chemistry and three classes at a university. But I still call her a sophomore, not a senior or college student which would be more in line with her work level. Just like I don't need to downgrade my 11 year old because her math is on the lower end of grade level. If Jackson is struggling with just math I would expect them to continue to call him his appropriate grade while continuing to work to improve the math. But the fact that they are openly calling him just starting 4th grade makes me think he's behind in all areas. 

 

He's doing online schooling. Is that correct? I can guarantee that is not going to work if he's struggling. I used a computer based math program for 1 1/2 years with my daughter (not the one I believe the Duggars are using). It was good for her because it engaged her, held her interest, was kind of fun - basically it made something she considered beyond torturous, tolerable and gave her some self-esteem and confidence about math which was absolutely crucial to making progress and being able to move to a more traditional math program. HOWEVER... the key to it not only being fun and giving her confidence etc but also to make sure she was learning the concepts was that I had to sit next to her at all times. I had to watch how they worked the problems, re-explain the lessons when she didn't quite understand, give her tips and above all keep her focused. I can't count how many times a day I say 'focus' - and not just with math. You can not just sit an elementary student in front of a computer and say 'go for it'.

 

I'm starting to get irritated... Have I mentioned before how annoyed it makes me that the Duggars are a national face for homeschooling?? These people are an embarrassment to dedicated homeschoolers.

Yes, all the kids are doing online learning. The program they use is called SOS. I'm not familiar with it. The problem is, no one is teaching the kids as far as I can tell, by the looks of it they are plopped down in front of a computer and they are are expected to work the curriculum self-paced. They showed this on the All About Jessa episode 2 weeks ago. Jessa is the one in charge of their homeschooling. It was Michelle's job before that and then Josie came along and Jessa had been picking up the slack while Michelle spent most of her time at the hospital with Josie. When things got back to normal Michelle permanently made it Jessa's job bc she said she did a great job at keeping after her siblings and making sure they were doing their work. I don't think Jessa did much teaching; it was more like she was monitoring her siblings. I think Jessa got the job bc she was organized and bc she was the only Duggar sibling who was assertive enough with her brothers and sisters to make sure they weren't goofing off.

This is what I meant earlier in another thread when we were discussing the kid's education or lack thereof. Michelle is neglecting her kids by not being the one to ensure they are getting at least a satisfactory level of education. And then she remarks that she doesn't know who will be able to take over and fill Jessa's shoes with homeschooling the kids!! How about YOU do it, since you are the PARENT.

[Mrsjumbo]

Well, that's not exactly hard now is it? ;)

But all those things you mention are... play stuff. Not actually taking care of his kids. I guess I'm just used to dads being more involved in their children's daily lives. As in making them breakfast, dressing them, fixing their hair, helping with homework et cetera AS WELL AS playing with them and doing crafts projects. With JB we only ever see the fun things and occasional outings and whenever he tries to "babysit" as they so appallingly put it, he flounders with simple things like making a ponytail or cooking a simple meal, which tells me that these are not things he's used to doing.

Like many, I think the younger Duggar kids view Jim Bob and Michelle more like grandparents and their sisters like their true parents.

Honestly? Did your dad do all that with you? Because my dad didn't do any of it. He supported the family by working. There was not much interaction besides talking with us at the dinner table.

I don't know many dads who cook dinner, do homework & dress their kids regularly either. Maybe it's a generational thing (I'm in my early 50's).

[msblossom]

Yeah, both parents are more hands on with raising their kids now, Mrsjumbo; not just the mom.

[Darknight]

Yes, all the kids are doing online learning. The program they use is called SOS. I'm not familiar with it. The problem is, no one is teaching the kids as far as I can tell, by the looks of it they are plopped down in front of a computer and they are are expected to work the curriculum self-paced. They showed this on the All About Jessa episode 2 weeks ago. Jessa is the one in charge of their homeschooling. It was Michelle's job before that and then Josie came along and Jessa had been picking up the slack while Michelle spent most of her time at the hospital with Josie. When things got back to normal Michelle permanently made it Jessa's job bc she said she did a great job at keeping after her siblings and making sure they were doing their work. I don't think Jessa did much teaching; it was more like she was monitoring her siblings. I think Jessa got the job bc she was organized and bc she was the only Duggar sibling who was assertive enough with her brothers and sisters to make sure they weren't goofing off.

This is what I meant earlier in another thread when we were discussing the kid's education or lack thereof. Michelle is neglecting her kids by not being the one to ensure they are getting at least a satisfactory level of education. And then she remarks that she doesn't know who will be able to take over and fill Jessa's shoes with homeschooling the kids!! How about YOU do it, since you are the PARENT.

Here's the thing with online school. My daughter takes classes online, she still has to complete work off the computer. So if the kids are just sitting at a computer all day they're not actually learning anything. And from what I saw the kids just keep answering questions until they get it right. That's not school. That's being lazy.

[andromeda331]

I don't know many dads who cook dinner, do homework & dress their kids regularly either. Maybe it's a generational thing (I'm in my early 50's).

 

It might be it also might depend on the schedules if both parents worked out of the house. My mom went to work really early in the morning so it was up to my dad to get the kids up,dressed, fed and off to school while Mom got off in the afternoon took care of homework and dinner.

[cmr2014]

Their excuse for all of their shoddy parenting is always, "we have to do it this way, because we have so man kids!" Which, of course begs the question, "well, why have so many kids?"

 

Meanwhile JB and J'chelle get what they want: money, attention, sex (at least JB wants sex), a big house (paid for by TLC), travel, etc. What do the kids get? No education, no friends, and no normal parental affection.

 

I'm sure that there are plenty of kids in the US who have it worse than the Duggar kids, but I doubt that their parents specifically planned to bring kids into those situations.

[Vaysh]

Honestly? Did your dad do all that with you? Because my dad didn't do any of it. He supported the family by working. There was not much interaction besides talking with us at the dinner table.

 

I don't know many dads who cook dinner, do homework & dress their kids regularly either. Maybe it's a generational thing (I'm in my early 50's).

 

I was born in the late 1970's and yes my dad did all those things (well not the crafts thing; he's a hobby painter so he showed me how to paint with oil colours instead. I think he regretted that somewhat after having to launder X amount of paint stained t-shirts ;) ). He worked full-time as well so as you say it's probably a generational thing. I'd say the dads of today are even more hands on because the younger generation of parents are more likely to share their parental leave equally after birth.

[flyingdi]

I was born in the late 60s and my dad did almost everything with us except cook.  If my dad was in charge of cooking you had 3 choices-hot dogs, grilled cheese or pizza delivery.

[Seashell Lover]

I was born in the late 50's and my father did everything a mom would do.As play cook help with homework go to teachers meetings etc. My mom all she did was lay around and watch tv and really never care for us.

[Ilovemylabs]

Honestly? Did your dad do all that with you? Because my dad didn't do any of it. He supported the family by working. There was not much interaction besides talking with us at the dinner table.

I don't know many dads who cook dinner, do homework & dress their kids regularly either. Maybe it's a generational thing (I'm in my early 50's).

Mrs. Jumbo, I am older than you and my dad, too, was not very active in my life as a child.  He worked hard starting his own business and had to work 18 hour days for a long time.  Still, when we went on vacation he made sure to pay attention to me and my sister.  I never doubted his love for us and my mom told us how hard he worked to put food on the table.  I think if we had been boys he may have been different (throwing balls, talking sports, etc.) but in the 50's that was not done very much with girls.  Still, I had a good childhood looking back.  We were poor at first but I never was aware of that.  My mom told me she used to buy enough meat to make a hamburger for my dad's dinner and the three of us would have pancakes or french toast.  I just thought my mom was a great cook!!

[Readalot]

Have the Duggars ever mentioned annual well visits? Immunizations? If so who took the kids before the J'Slaves could drive? I was reading these comments and thinking how for our oldest (now 17) for the first year or so my husband took her to every one of her checkups including those that had immunizations. Unfortunately we both worked but he worked 12 hours 4 days on / 3 days off so he could spend time with her (I worked part time when he was off). We both cooked cleaned shopped laundry, truly partnered in everything. For our second daughter he had an average work schedule and it bothered him for years that he could not have the same experience with DD2. And speaking of well visits our daughters from age two always had to draw pictures, letters, numbers, whatever was age appropriate. The dr actually saves these documents for yearly comparison. I bet that would be too progressive for the Duggars, to actually care if your child is developing within normal ranges. Ugh!

[msblossom]

Here's the thing with online school. My daughter takes classes online, she still has to complete work off the computer. So if the kids are just sitting at a computer all day they're not actually learning anything. And from what I saw the kids just keep answering questions until they get it right. That's not school. That's being lazy.

Yes, Darknight, that's what I saw too. Unless there is actually some work, guidance and instruction being done when they are offline -- I suspect it is very little. And Jessa is very pragmatic and impatient; I can't see her trying to explain and teach concepts of learning to her siblings very well without making them feel inferior. She might be fine with one or two of the kids, but there must be around 8 that she was responsible for. It seems Jill would have been better suited for this, and I'm sure she helped out, and probably Jana and Jinger as well -- but it wasn't their primary duty like it was Jessa's.

[GEML]

Between growing up in Appalachia, the old-style Catholic Rust belt and among fundamentalists, very large families are not all that much of a shock to me. I didn't know one of 19, but I knew some of 14 or 15. So their "we have to do it this way" is simply justification for their own choices. The Duggars are free to make their choices, but plenty of other large families "do things a little differently" - from the Duggars and they "made it all work."

[3girlsforus]

I agree. I should have been more clear. Online education has a definite place for everyone. Even our public schools are requiring even student take at least one online class. Colleges are using them extensively so the high schools are seeing the need for students to be exposed to that way of learning prior to getting to college. But they require work off the computer. For younger kids they require guidance to make sure they are actually learning the information provided. 

 

I don't blame Jessa for being impatient and exasperated with the schooling. IT IS NOT HER JOB!! It isn't Jana or Jinger's job either. It's Michele's job. And she isn't doing it. Homeschooling can be a group affair with older and younger learning together. But we are talking about something like 'hey I'm helping this child with a math problem and you have a few minutes. Can you read this with your sister?' Or  I've turned it around the other way before and told the older one.. ok you have done your dissection and say you understand the anatomy of the cow's heart, show it to your little sister and explain all parts of it so she understands. Great way to have the student show they really do understand the material. but you do NOT turn the responsibility of educating your children over to other children. It's just wrong. It short-changes the kids who are supposed to be learning and robs the kids who are supposed teaching from doing their own thing - which I guess it part of the point.

[Barb23]

From what we have seen on TV, the kids are barely sitting in their seats at the computers, yet alone doing any work. Are the on line home school computer programs geared to certain grades? Like K-5 or high school. What about the one they use, SOS?

[alt0233]

I have an 18 month old and I have a few parent friends where the father hardly ever changes their toddler's diaper, hasn't ever been left alone with the child/children, and basically only play with their kids and hand them over whenever they become a bit difficult. My husband works full time, I work part time, and my husband changes almost as many diapers as I do, and absolutely takes care if him so that I can leave and do things on my own.

That said, in all these cases the mother is full time stay at home, and the father works full time outside of the home (and in some cases travels a lot or is military.) JB is home often enough that he should be doing some caretaking - there really isn't an excuse in his case.

[Seashell Lover]

My grandsons are in kindergarten and 5th grade and their school which is a public school required them to have a Mac Book pro for school as all their lessons and books are online.

[msblossom]

No, it's not Jessa's responsibilty to make sure that her siblings get at least a satisfactory education, that falls to JB and Michelle. That's what is upsetting bc the kids are, from my vantage point, getting a very sub-par education. It would be one thing if Jessa's passion was teaching. But for all we know, according to Michelle, her skill is organization, and that may or may not be a passion.

I guess a family that size operates a little differently bc out of necessity they have to make it work and I don't know how I would feel if I lived in that world. Jessa took on that role nearly entering adulthood. Ok, let's not get it twisted, she wasn't really an adult, but she was 18 or nearly so. And she did so bc of the premature birth of Josie and all that entailed. I don't blame Jessa. I do think once Michelle was back home she should have taken the role of educating her children back because although she wasn't stellar she was more hands on and did a better job. Not to mention that, most importantly, it was HER JOB!!

[JenCarroll]

Did she do a better job? Hard to know, honestly. I was watching one of the oldest specials, where they actually showed the SOTDRT, and MEchelle had all the kids, every child old enough to sit, all at the table together while she purported to teach them about bankruptcy law. (Which, it turns out, doesn't mean you go to a bank.) Bankruptcy law, which makes absolutely no sense unless you've already had basic civics, math, and at least some basic economics. Even home economics. The lesson was not appropriate any child there, but what struck me was, she's giving the same lesson to her 16 year old and her 6 year old. How does that work, exactly? What also struck me was, she only had to pretend she understood the topic herself for about a minute to get it filmed, and she wasn't able to.

Of course, that was probably not representative of what their school days looked like when they weren't being filmed, so it's hard to draw any conclusions.

[Wellfleet]

Have the Duggars ever mentioned annual well visits? Immunizations? If so who took the kids before the J'Slaves could drive? I was reading these comments and thinking how for our oldest (now 17) for the first year or so my husband took her to every one of her checkups including those that had immunizations. Unfortunately we both worked but he worked 12 hours 4 days on / 3 days off so he could spend time with her (I worked part time when he was off). We both cooked cleaned shopped laundry, truly partnered in everything. For our second daughter he had an average work schedule and it bothered him for years that he could not have the same experience with DD2. And speaking of well visits our daughters from age two always had to draw pictures, letters, numbers, whatever was age appropriate. The dr actually saves these documents for yearly comparison. I bet that would be too progressive for the Duggars, to actually care if your child is developing within normal ranges. Ugh!

 

Never heard of MDs asking kids to do drawings, numbers etc at yearly "wellness" checkups but - brilliant idea! Very smart, progressive approach. I could see this possibly alerting the doctor to a problem very early on. You were lucky to have such a great MD. This is EXACTLY the type of person who should be working in medicine.

[GEML]

I think that Michelle did a better job in that the older children seem reasonably educated - not well educated, but functionally educated, and the younger ones do not.

[pinguina]

I think the older ones seem to be functionally literate.  The younger ones?   

This is really a hot topic for me because I truly believe children should be literate. They should be able to read literature or informational text and come away with some kind of opinion, connection, new information, or just simple enjoyment about what they read.  They should be able to write a clear paragraph to fit the occasion or task with correct grammar and punctuation and clearly express their thoughts verbally.  Oh, how it bothers me to hear them say, "Me and __..."  "Can I..."  " It went good".

Jessa was a task master, just checking that everyone was doing what they were supposed to be doing, Their mother should have been involved in lessons, assessments, and progress (yeah, right)

[3girlsforus]

Never heard of MDs asking kids to do drawings, numbers etc at yearly "wellness" checkups but - brilliant idea! Very smart, progressive approach. I could see this possibly alerting the doctor to a problem very early on. You were lucky to have such a great MD. This is EXACTLY the type of person who should be working in medicine.

This would bother me a lot. Doctors can be narrow-minded and there are plenty out there that would use this as a tool to harass parents they don't approve of. I had a pediatrician once as my then 7 year old to tell him who George Washington Carver was. She didn't know. She went on to tell him about all the Egyptian and Greece history we had learned that year. Some of which it was clear he didn't know. But he told me I should pay more attention to appropriate development because kids her age should know who George Washington Carver it.

[Readalot]

This would bother me a lot. Doctors can be narrow-minded and there are plenty out there that would use this as a tool to harass parents they don't approve of. I had a pediatrician once as my then 7 year old to tell him who George Washington Carver was. She didn't know. She went on to tell him about all the Egyptian and Greece history we had learned that year. Some of which it was clear he didn't know. But he told me I should pay more attention to appropriate development because kids her age should know who George Washington Carver it.

yeah that is ridiculous. It's been more of "draw a picture of a flower" later of "draw you and your family" "write numbers starting at 1", "write the alphabet starting at A", very basic about two tasks a year. They give the child the task to do while waiting for the appointment. For both daughters the dr would compliment whatever the output was. To this date he has not voiced any concerns so that's good. And it is fun to look back on previous year's drawings.

[Wellfleet]

This would bother me a lot. Doctors can be narrow-minded and there are plenty out there that would use this as a tool to harass parents they don't approve of. I had a pediatrician once as my then 7 year old to tell him who George Washington Carver was. She didn't know. She went on to tell him about all the Egyptian and Greece history we had learned that year. Some of which it was clear he didn't know. But he told me I should pay more attention to appropriate development because kids her age should know who George Washington Carver it.

 

Without a doubt, your pediatrician was behaving inappropriately. If this had happened to me and my child, this doctor would have been reported to the regional medical society the same day.

[3girlsforus]

He's definitely not my pediatrician anymore. I made the mistake of seeing someone in the practice I hadn't seen before. Never made that mistake again. It's one of those situations of the bad egg ruining it for the majority of decent people. While I like the idea of doctors having ways of checking to see for delays as Readalot outlined (my actual pediatrician does things like she indicated) it's the jerks like the one I encountered that makes me wary of having it become a general policy. 

[GEML]

To be honest, I have exceptionally healthy children, and I don't do yearly check ups except when they need immunizations or the school requires them, so I'm betting the Duggars don't either. My son never saw a pediatrician for five years because he was never sick. And to be honest, I'm very progressive, but I think taking people who aren't sick to see doctors drives up the cost of healthcare for all of us, and makes it harder in many areas, where there aren't enough doctors, for sick people to get appointments, so I'm not excited about annual visits at all.

[Mrsjumbo]

I agree, my older 2 do not go for yearly checkups. They are never sick & have had all of their immunizations. I take them every few years as a precautionary thing.

My littlest one- he has autism & I do take him every year. One time he was about 4 yrs old, I took him in for a rash. We had to see a different ped. This ped took one look at ds3, who was quietly coloring, & said "I've seen kids like this before, they rarely get much better as they get older". As usual when I am shocked I was speechless. This was the first time that ped had ever seen my DS, how DARE he say he was never going to progress- btw he is now speaking in sentences & reading.

Getting off my soapbox now.

[McManda]

If they see a doctor regularly (and by regularly I mean once every year or two, but in reality as long as they have a PCP) in this day and age, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for one of the kids to have been diagnosed with ADD or ADHD. Would Michelle and Jim Bob allow their kids to be medicated? I'm not sure if I know how they feel about stimulant drugs like Ritalin or Adderall or something along those lines.

 

I don't advocate medicating kids (I think ADD and ADHD are over-diagnosed and that legitimate cases should be diagnosed by a mental health doctor, not your PCP who sees you maybe one time a year), but could it be possible that some of the more behind kids actually have learning disorders? Not that Jim Bob or Michelle would think to take them to a psychiatrist to find out, but still.

[GEML]

I do think they have some learning issues, but I'll be honest, I'm of a mixed opinion of how I feel about fifteen minutes with a pediatrician about these issues. My son is also on the spectrum and I also have had some things said to me and to him by people who had no clue about who he was as a person, or what we were doing or anything but spouted off some gibberish. I'm sorry, but that's not my idea of "progressive" medicine practice. That's going to alienate and scare off as many parents as it informs.

And let's face it - the Duggars aren't stupid about their children's challenges. They might be in denial about them. They might be too lazy to do anything about them. But you know they have been informed by plenty of people over the years about their children. That they choose not to make changes to their methods is a pretty good indication that information and access isn't the same as a parent who sits down with her children every day and works with them one on one and is their advocate.

[Jellybeans]

I remember going to a "doctor" as a young child and he told my mom I should go to the deaf school. I piped up and said "what is a deaf school, is it for doctors?" cuz at that young age I was reading all the Cherry Ames books and wanted to be a doctor.

The "doctor"stared at me for a lonnng time when I asked if stethoscopes had volume control. (they do now, there's a deaf doctor in Houston who used an interpreter while in medical school)

Besides, I became deaf on antibiotics.