Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[wanderwoman]

I feel a bit uncomfortable talking about Jill and Derrick's sex life, but they opened the door, so here goes.

Does their religion allow women to, er, "accomodate" their husbands in ways other than traditional sex.

Totally. Remember, anyone can make him a sammich, but only Jill can play with Pete's flesh Pistol. I read through the manual Jim Bob handed Josh and it covered oral in the most awkward, clinical way possible.

[Jusagirlintheworld]

Totally. Remember, anyone can make him a sammich, but only Jill can play with Pete's flesh Pistol. I read through the manual Jim Bob handed Josh and it covered oral in the most awkward, clinical way possible.

OMG. I am laughing so hard at the "Pete's flesh Pistol." So, did the weird manual say oral is ok? I don't even know what the book was. I wasn't watching back then. I would be the oral master if I weren't allowed to use birth control. Anytime my hubby asked for my "sandwich," I would offer him that alternative.

[wanderwoman]

OMG. I am laughing so hard at the "Pete's flesh Pistol." So, did the weird manual say oral is ok? I don't even know what the book was. I wasn't watching back then. I would be the oral master if I weren't allowed to use birth control. Anytime my hubby asked for my "sandwich," I would offer him that alternative.

The manual covered "alternative", but "enjoyable" activities that could be done in addition to straight baby-makin'. Like I said, it's very clinical with the descriptions and, iirc, had no pics or drawings of the "alternatives". Frankly, I'm not shocked that they allow BJ's and, in this case, mutual pistol whipping (evil grin)- I don't think any patriarchal culture is going to eliminate something that gives the GUY pleasure. Lol. And, maybe Derek likes to munch Jilly's muffin? (I'm going to hell.)

Edited May 17, 2015 by wanderwoman

[TaxNerd]

It's my impression that any kind of sex which can't result in conception is probably taboo.

No, I'm pretty sure they have sex during pregnancy, and after menopause.

I really don't think Cathy has any business speaking to her son about birth control, family planning, etc. The time for that was before/during the engagement. Jill was upfront about her idea for a family, now that is between Jill and Derick. I could not image my mother in law thinking she has an obligation to talk to my husband about those family decisions, post marriage. That ship has sailed.

[Fuzzysox]

The manual covered "alternative", but "enjoyable" activities that could be done in addition to straight baby-makin'. Like I said, it's very clinical with the descriptions and, iirc, had no pics or drawings of the "alternatives". Frankly, I'm not shocked that they allow BJ's and, in this case, mutual pistol whipping (evil grin)- I don't think any patriarchal culture is going to eliminate something that gives the GUY pleasure. Lol. And, maybe Derek likes to munch Jilly's muffin? (I'm going to hell.)

EYE BLEACH STAT

[becca3891]

 

They can't afford 20 children no matter how many People magazine covers they land. Adoption isn't cheap. It's hard to imagine that TLC, currently binging on "super-sized families" will continue featuring those families for the next twenty years. derickdillard's salary at Wal Mart isn't going to keep a family of 22 in iPhones and frumpwear.

I know adoption isn't cheap, but older sibling groups from poor countries are much more affordable than white babies in the US. You're right that TLC is going to cut them off at some point, but we can't underestimate that whatever ghost written crap they come up with shoots to the bestseller list. There's no telling the royalties the J slaves earn from their book, and now Jill and Jessa will probably "write" with the help of a ghost writer an account of their courtships. I think there will be Very Special Episodes for many years to come, even when the regular episodes get canceled, because TLC knows people love the Duggars. So I think they might make it work. Not saying I want them to! But don't forget they're currently living rent/mortgage free and saving up Derick's salary as well as their show/book earnings. I bet they're very comfortable and could easily afford to adopt many.

[truthtalk2014]

Totally. Remember, anyone can make him a sammich, but only Jill can play with Pete's flesh Pistol. I read through the manual Jim Bob handed Josh and it covered oral in the most awkward, clinical way possible.

OMG!  My biggest laugh of the day!  Pete's flesh Pistol!  Priceless.  He needs a shirt that says that and a down arrow.

[JenCarroll]

Totally. Remember, anyone can make him a sammich, but only Jill can play with Pete's flesh Pistol. I read through the manual Jim Bob handed Josh and it covered oral in the most awkward, clinical way possible.

Oh god, now I need the brain bleach. Who had it last? Pass it over here, please?

[JoanArc]

 

I know adoption isn't cheap, but older sibling groups from poor countries are much more affordable than white babies in the US.

Jill's personality mixed with kid/s who could potentially have RAD? Now THAT'S a show I'd watch.

[Jusagirlintheworld]

Jill's personality mixed with kid/s who could potentially have RAD? Now THAT'S a show I'd watch.

Foster adoption is free. My bet is that they go that route.

[GEML]

Alternatives are generally discouraged, as it gives too much opportunity to veer off from concentrating on your partner and fantasize about someone else, even accidentally. That's also why face to face positions are encouraged.

But ultimately, most people feel that intimacy in marriage is best decided by the couple. And no one but the couple need know. Unless there are problems, then you should go back to basics to, again, concentrate on the partner. Most of the books really are as awkward as they can possibly be, but most know that a good sex life between a couple is a better bet than a not so great one. And that's not always easy when you've had it drilled in your head sex is a terrible thing except in marriage, where it's perfect. Except when it isn't.

And as a writer, I'd be VERY surprised if any of them are getting royalties from their books. They probably got a reasonable advance, but I doubt they have earned out yet. They likely do get decent speaking fees though. Those can add up pretty quickly if they really wanted to pursue that and could go on for years after the show is over. With electronic publishing, their book will almost certainly never be out of print, so they can always call it a book signing and themselves authors and take hefty tax write offs as individual small businesses, as well.

[cmr2014]

 

I can see them deciding to adopt quite a few children, because you know she wants to hit that number 20.

 

I don't think this will happen for a lot of reasons.

 

As others have mentioned, it's expensive, and while I'm sure Derick makes a reasonable salary for a new hire, I don't think that they are on the road to riches. 

 

I also think that Derick and Jill have very different ideas of what a big family means. I think that Derick is thinking of family dinners, Little League games, and children's art hanging on the refrigerator-- warm family images that he wants for himself for whatever reason. While I think that Jill is more maternal than her mother or sisters, she is ultimately in a child creation contest. I think that these fundamental views will clash long before there is any adoption.

 

International adoptions are drying up pretty quickly. Countries are tightening their restriction and some have completely closed their doors to US adoption. After the high-profile deaths of a number of children adopted by evangelicals who used the Pearl's "How to Train Up a Child" book, I think that the fact that they are evangelicals who are associated with this book, could raise red flags with agencies.

 

Gothard used to have at least one orphanage (in Russia), but I think it has been closed down. If he has others, they may expect that they have access to a reliable pipeline of adoptable children. It that's the case, then they really could adopt their way into the poorhouse pretty quickly.

[Jusagirlintheworld]

. Most of the books really are as awkward as they can possibly be, but most know that a good sex life between a couple is a better bet than a not so great one. And that's not always easy when you've had it drilled in your head sex is a terrible thing except in marriage, where it's perfect. Except when it isn't. ll.

I didn't think about that. It would be difficult to instantly start delighting in sex after marriage when it had been so condemned before marriage. I would have a hard time changing gears.

On the flip side, it would be disappointing if the first foray into married sex was just so-so after being told it was something so extraordinary. These teachings seem to build up expectations.

Do Gothard girls have trouble with this? I would.

[Fuzzysox]

No birthday celebration for Jill? 

[JoanArc]

 

Those can add up pretty quickly if they really wanted to pursue that and could go on for years after the show is over.

'19 awkward adults' won't be a big crowd draw.

[Absolom]

I see Jill having a second c-section with the next pregnancy and then having a limited number of pregnancies being pushed for that reason.  I can see Derick understanding that and finding some loopholes in Jill's and Jim Bob's Gothard philosophies.  

[Ljohnson1987]

I wonder if the Dr who delivered Iz is for VBACs. Some aren't.

[JenCarroll]

I wonder if the Dr who delivered Iz is for VBACs. Some aren't.

Well, according to Dr. Muffy herself, she told him to stitch her up real good (fortunate that Jill was alert about that, because otherwise he might have just done a half-assed job of it) and he promised her she could have a vaginal delivery next time. It's highly unlikely that any doctor would make such a promise, but he probably did say it wasn't out of the question.

[NikSac]

That is interesting about the C section scar. So much I didn't know! I actually feel a little sorry for Jill because it has to be a bitter pill to swallow, knowing that pregnancy and delivery are always going to be shrouded in higher risk concern and maybe complications, and her dream of 20 perfect pregnancies is already out the window. It's all she's ever dreamed of. I can see them deciding to adopt quite a few children, because you know she wants to hit that number 20.

 

I don't watch the show enough to know - has she ever said she wants 20 kids or has dreamed of it, etc.?  Or is that just speculation? 

[Sew Sumi]

Well, she never said it outright, but both of them have said that they are doing nothing to prevent pregnancy. Before the c-section, with her seemingly super fertility to conceive as she did, that could extrapolate out to 15-20 kids. Mechelle had 12 VBACs; let's see how many Jill can pump out before her uterus cries Uncle. 

 

I just hope they are heeding doctor's orders about when to resume sexual relations, as well as actively trying for another Blessing. Of course, those warnings never stopped her mother from having several kids 13 months apart; I frankly see Jill going in that direction, blithely thinking that bad things happen to other people, and that her faith will protect her from harm. 

[becca3891]

 

I don't watch the show enough to know - has she ever said she wants 20 kids or has dreamed of it, etc.?  Or is that just speculation?

No, the party line is only "We're trusting god with the size of our family." However, it's obvious from their obsessive pregnancy test taking and many other reasons that they aren't just trusting god, they are actively trying to have as many as possible. Anna worriedly said, about her latest pregnancy, that it was the longest age gap between children that they'd had and it clearly had been troubling her. And Michelle has made many similar remarks.

[GEML]

I didn't think about that. It would be difficult to instantly start delighting in sex after marriage when it had been so condemned before marriage. I would have a hard time changing gears.

On the flip side, it would be disappointing if the first foray into married sex was just so-so after being told it was something so extraordinary. These teachings seem to build up expectations.

Do Gothard girls have trouble with this? I would.

There's a lot of chatter about sex that takes place that parents don't know about. Young marrieds are pretty honest with the soon to be married. Cameras aside, everyone pretty much knows how things go down (or not) and it's a race, not a sprint.

But there are some who really do never get over it, or never get better at it, etc. And those stories do tend to stand out.

Edited May 18, 2015 by GEML

[Darknight]

Foster adoption is free. My bet is that they go that route.

Ha. Yeah right. Foster parenting is difficult. You're dealing with kids that experience trauma abuse and neglect. Then it takes a while to adopt. On top of that the foster care system recognizes the birth family relationship. So even if a child is with you for two years if a family member comes forward that family member will get custody. Unless it's an older legally freed child. But let's be for real the Dillards are going to want babies if they go the adoption route. Babies in foster care are in high demand just like private adoption and most aren't legally freed. I can't see Jilly Muffin actually having empathy for a child whose been sexually abuse or neglected. Gothard puts the blame on the victim if they're abuse. And there's no homeschooling foster kids.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Darknight

[BitterApple]

I can't see Jill fostering. I think she has a good heart but is too immature and uneducated to meet the needs of children who have suffered lifelong abuse. Traumatized children need more than lollipops and soccer balls to overcome their pasts.

[Literata]

And there's no homeschooling foster kids.

 

Maybe each state is different, but our newspaper just published a story about a woman in northern Iowa who is homeschooling the children she fosters.

 

 

I also think that Derick and Jill have very different ideas of what a big family means. I think that Derick is thinking of family dinners, Little League games, and children's art hanging on the refrigerator-- warm family images that he wants for himself for whatever reason. While I think that Jill is more maternal than her mother or sisters, she is ultimately in a child creation contest. I think that these fundamental views will clash long before there is any adoption.

 

This is an excellent point. One of the reasons I do really like Derick is that he does seem to be the real deal in terms of wanting a genuinely warm, loving marriage and family. He may be awkward, but it's evident from seeing Cathy and Dan that the family is and has been functional and close. I hope some of this rubs off on Jill -- but in the end, you are what you are. She's a Duggar, and the desire to drive up the numbers to populate Gothard's army is all she's ever known.

[poopchute]

No, I'm pretty sure they have sex during pregnancy, and after menopause.

 

 

I hope they are allowed to have sex during pregnancy.  Otherwise, Derick and Jill have had sex for like one week of their marriage and that's it?! 

[GEML]

I don't know of any Fundy group that specifically prohibits sex during marriage. Again, sex isn't, in Protestantism, solely about procreation. Even in quiverful homes. It's something that keeps a marriage together and is given wide latitude behind closed doors.

[Morgalisa]

 

I don't know of any Fundy group that specifically prohibits sex during marriage.

According to memoir that I have read about the FLDS, some sects believe it is for procreation only.  Of course, they have multiple wives, so the men are okay with that.  And the wives they take are younger and younger so they don't have to deal with the issue of menopause.

[McManda]

I feel so skeevy, but I googled "Before the Wedding Night" for fun. (I was bored.) My library doesn't have a copy, but they're able to get another books by Ed Wheat ("Intended for Pleasure" specifically) and I almost want to request it out of sheer curiosity. I can only imagine it's a fun (/sarcasm) read. This old thread talks about some of his techniques and advice and all I can think is ... how can someone be so unaware of their own body? I get being a virgin and waiting until marriage for sex, but it's more than that. This is basic anatomy. I cannot imagine being so uninformed.

 

Also, for what it's worth, oral is apparently allowed, so ... maybe Jill won't be pregnant tomorrow?

 

(Annnnd... this is where I go to hell.)

[JoanArc]

So do we know that Jill read the book the excludes the clitoris? Poor Jill.

[CofCinci]

So do we know that Jill read the book the excludes the clitoris? Poor Jill.

And with her questionable midwife training, she might not even know the clitoris exists.

[GEML]

I wasn't considering the FLDS in my survey, I'll admit. But I've also read several memoirs there that talk about how favorite wives have sex during pregnancy because it's used as punishment and favoritism.

I doubt Jill only got one book, with a wedding that size. And several on the Christian market do indeed mention the clitoris and what to do with it.

[becca3891]

 

So do we know that Jill read the book the excludes the clitoris? Poor Jill.

To be fair to Ed Wheat, the author of the book Boob gave Josh, the clitoris and its need for stimulation is discussed.

[Jynnan tonnix]

And with her questionable midwife training, she might not even know the clitoris exists.

I'd think that the average person would tend to stumble across it, as it were, somewhere in their adolescence, in the shower or what have you, even if they didn't know what it was called. But maybe that's just me...and let's just say that once you discover it, it's quite difficult not to keep exploring...

[JennyMominFL]

According to tonights episode Jill and Derrick had an accidental full frontal hug. hey were just going in for the side hug, but they each went in the wrong way. 

[kandinski]

I know Jessa seems the least popular daughter,however I cant stand jill there is just something off about her.Not just the fact she is birth mare in a cult.

Its all in the eyes....she has very cruel eyes.

 

And didnt she say people in a poor country without homes were that way for being "godless"

[alt0233]

In the previews for next season they showed Derick and Jill sharing some "big news" but didn't say what it was. Any ideas? My first thought was moving or going to do a long-term mission or something, but if something like that has already been recorded, how much lead time can there be? It'd have to come out soon, right?

[CarolMK]

Was the last episode of talking with the Duggars only done a couple of weeks ago? Because Jill says there that Israel is only one month old. If there is an announcement of Jill and Derrick relocating (maybe due to his Wal Mart job), that'd be great for the two of them. It would be really hard on her buddy group though. 

Some have noticed that Jill seems a bit detached from her baby. If so, that really is too bad. It took me a little while, but I remember falling head over heels with my baby boy (who's now 21) so much that by the time I was set to return to work 8 weeks later, my job had gotten phased out and I was actually really relieved. Although maybe if Jill is detached, it's because she learned it from Michelle.

[lottiedottie]

According to tonights episode Jill and Derrick had an accidental full frontal hug. hey were just going in for the side hug, but they each went in the wrong way. 

For a minute they probably thought she was pregnant from that full frontal hug.

[Fuzzysox]

Was the last episode of talking with the Duggars only done a couple of weeks ago? Because Jill says there that Israel is only one month old. If there is an announcement of Jill and Derrick relocating (maybe due to his Wal Mart job), that'd be great for the two of them. It would be really hard on her buddy group though. 

Some have noticed that Jill seems a bit detached from her baby. If so, that really is too bad. It took me a little while, but I remember falling head over heels with my baby boy (who's now 21) so much that by the time I was set to return to work 8 weeks later, my job had gotten phased out and I was actually really relieved. Although maybe if Jill is detached, it's because she learned it from Michelle.

I heard that too last night.

 

Knowing them like we do I'm surprised that they haven't been all over FB, Twitter and Instagram with whatever news it's gonna be.

[GEML]

Several people have commented how detached Jill seems from her new baby. I didn't see the latest episode, so I can't comment on it, but I did post that I was concerned that Jill had several red flags for post partum.

And I'm not someone who thinks women in this world get pregnant because of "baby fever". I think it's because they are often treated better during pregnancy than during any other time. And let's face it - even in the secular world, everyone is excited about a baby and throws parties and then the baby actually comes and for too many women there's just this strange silence. Everyone else goes back to their ordinary lives but you, as the mother have gone through this enormous experience and suddenly it's just you and this baby who has needs that you feel are constant and maybe can't meet.

Even the Duggar girls didn't care for newborns. Jill may be feeling a real shock of isolation that she, coming from a loud and boisterous family, REALLY wasn't ready for.

[JenCarroll]

Generally agreed, although I actually do think Anna has Baby Fever.

[GEML]

Anna actually enjoys babies and young children. And doesn't seem to fear isolation, but is comfortable in her own skin. Anna and Josh are very fortunate in that regard.

That said, a truly difficult pregnancy or physical set back could make life for them very difficult very quickly.

[BitterApple]

Jill spent her whole life watching Michelle being fawned over even though she was dumping childcare duties on her older daughters. Her definition of motherhood is very skewed. I think Jill expected a lot more fanfare from her family and is a little disappointed that it's faded so fast.

I also want to add that I think the J'slaves were friends more out of necessity than desire. I mean, Jana had a straight up bitch face when she had to go to the hospital at midnight for Jill's C-section. Jinger didn't even bother stepping inside the house when she picked up the Littles from their sleepover and Jessa is great for posting Instagram pics but we all know she won't help out in any practical way. Jill is most definitely feeling isolated.

Edited May 21, 2015 by BitterApple

[Mountainair]

Derrick posted on Instagram today (I've noticed all the Duggar social media accounts have been quiet lately) a picture of Jim Bob holding Izzy for the first time. First of all, that baby looked to be about five months old, secondly, this is the first time he's held his grandson? Don't they live right down the street?

[Clemgo3165]

Didn't he hold Iz when they did the drive by of the TTH on the way home from the hospital?

[GEML]

Then when Anna was having her children, she was the only one. (Aside the one brief overlap with Michelle) Jill has to share with Anna and now Jessa, and here come Marjorie...

[kandinski]

The weirdness just goes on and on...probably Jim Bob was waiting for the cameras to be on before he went near her.

 

As for Dullrick I get the feeling he was desperate to become part of the Duggars c list circus.I mean who would message Jim Bob to be a prayer partner?

[GEML]

Someone who genuinely was lonely and admired them as a boisterous family. And someone who knew Jim Bob had the means to offer him financial support.

[JoanArc]

 

Someone who genuinely was lonely and admired them as a boisterous family. And someone who knew Jim Bob had the means to offer him financial support.

Totally agree. And someone who swallowed their perfectly polished image and propaganda hook, line, and sinker. It was very easy to be handed the perfect life.