Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[quarks]

5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Oh wow she mentioned Derick's posts. Did Derick have any remorse?

Nope. 

The full quote:

"Derick had been making comments on Twitter, speaking his mind about various topics and making a few enemies. It earned him a quiet conversation with Pops and a warning. 'Be careful,' he said. 'If you've got problems, come to me.'

Neither of us felt much like taking him up on his offer at first."

And indeed, instead of taking him up on his offer, a couple of paragraphs later, they sent Jim Bob a 27 page letter.

So it's not just that Derick's multiple issues on Twitter are reduced to "making a few enemies," rather than "harassing a teenager and garnering so much criticism/pushback that even Jim Bob felt the need to say something," but in context are presented as just part of the ongoing problems with Jim Bob.

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, AstridM said:

Jill’s book hit #2 on the NYT list - and hers are organic sales, NOT bulk sales as Jinger’s were. 

What category is that? I can't find Jill anywhere on the NYT bestsellers list.

[Ohiopirate02]

11 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

What category is that? I can't find Jill anywhere on the NYT bestsellers list.

Hardcover non-fiction.  It's also #2 on the combined print/ebook nonfiction list.

[SMama]

6 hours ago, AstridM said:

Jill’s book hit #2 on the NYT list - and hers are organic sales, NOT bulk sales as Jinger’s were. 

What do bulk sales entail?

I hope donkey face is aware of how well the book is selling. JB, you are a vile, misogynistic, pathological liar, abusive, vindictive asshole. And so many people are finally going to see you for the evil that you truly are. 

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, SMama said:

What do bulk sales entail?

People looking to get their book on the NYT bestseller list will find a bookstore that reports to the Times (sometimes done by cold calling bookstores) and order hundreds or even thousands of copies of said book through that bookstore before the book is released.  On release day, the sale goes through and the number of copies sold is reported to thr Times.  The book will then appear on the bestseller list for one week with a dagger next to it.  The dagger denotes the presence of bulk sales for all to see.  And then the book promptly falls off the bestseller list.  Also, those who made these bulk purchases (at full retail) are stuck with them.  

[Panopticon]

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Hardcover non-fiction.  It's also #2 on the combined print/ebook nonfiction list.

I'm surprised Jim Bob allowed that.

[oliviabenson]

Jim Bobs head is exploding and his blood pressure is through the roof right about now. 

[AstridM]

3 hours ago, SMama said:

What do bulk sales entail?

I hope donkey face is aware of how well the book is selling. JB, you are a vile, misogynistic, pathological liar, abusive, vindictive asshole. And so many people are finally going to see you for the evil that you truly are. 

The assumption is that Mcarthur/the church bought the bulk of Jinger’s books. 

[awaken]

4 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

People looking to get their book on the NYT bestseller list will find a bookstore that reports to the Times (sometimes done by cold calling bookstores) and order hundreds or even thousands of copies of said book through that bookstore before the book is released.  On release day, the sale goes through and the number of copies sold is reported to thr Times.  The book will then appear on the bestseller list for one week with a dagger next to it.  The dagger denotes the presence of bulk sales for all to see.  And then the book promptly falls off the bestseller list.  Also, those who made these bulk purchases (at full retail) are stuck with them.  

So jinger’s book had bulk sales?

[Salacious Kitty]

5 minutes ago, awaken said:

So jinger’s book had bulk sales?

Yes, it had the dagger on the best sellers list. 

[YupItsMe]

8 hours ago, quarks said:

Nope. 

The full quote:

"Derick had been making comments on Twitter, speaking his mind about various topics and making a few enemies. It earned him a quiet conversation with Pops and a warning. 'Be careful,' he said. 'If you've got problems, come to me.'

Neither of us felt much like taking him up on his offer at first."

And indeed, instead of taking him up on his offer, a couple of paragraphs later, they sent Jim Bob a 27 page letter.

So it's not just that Derick's multiple issues on Twitter are reduced to "making a few enemies," rather than "harassing a teenager and garnering so much criticism/pushback that even Jim Bob felt the need to say something," but in context are presented as just part of the ongoing problems with Jim Bob.

Jim Bob is on Twitter??

[Salacious Kitty]

28 minutes ago, YupItsMe said:

Jim Bob is on Twitter??

I don't think so, but his little foot soldier Jessa is. Or was at the time. I don't know if she uses it anymore.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Salacious Kitty

[quarks]

48 minutes ago, YupItsMe said:

Jim Bob is on Twitter??

Derick's tweets were public and could be viewed by anyone, including people without a Twitter account.

His harassment of a teenager also got quite a bit of tabloid and social media attention, so it's quite possible that someone saw that and contacted Jim Bob.

[Iguessnot]

On 9/16/2023 at 11:16 PM, CalicoKitty said:

I was surprised that Jill was quite clear that in IBLP, children were to be obedient to their parents for their entire lives, even after marriage.  This also applies the new spouse.  This organization really would appeal to little guys with big egos and the need for power.  The father has control over everything in their life.  Derick didn't see things the same way, which started some of the arguments.  This explains, to me anyway, the pushback that Jill received as opposed to Josh.  Josh was/is the "heir next in line" to run the family if something happened to JB.  

I was going to ask when IBLP was established, but it was later answered in this forum that this rule was Gothard's, which clears things up for me. Because that obedience thing can only be sustained a generation or two. Did Josh pledge obedience to Anna's Father? Do the other Duggar husbands pledge obedience to their father in laws? That foolishness is not going to last.

[Quilt Fairy]

Jill's book is also a bestseller on Audible. 

[Mindthinkr]

11 hours ago, AstridM said:

The assumption is that Mcarthur/the church bought the bulk of Jinger’s books. 

Guess what everyone is getting for Christmas 🤣

[SnapHappy]

So Jim Bob made money at the expense of his children, and they had no say in it. And that was VERY BAD. 

Now Jill & Derrick are making money with a book, at the expense of her siblings, some still minors and living at home. And they had no say in that.  So that is VERY GOOD?

I'm sure the humiliation and embarrassment that the younger ones at home, Jordyn, Jennifer, etc. are going through is worth it, as long as Jill & Derrick get their revenge on her parents.  And make the NY times list.  

Oh, and they MUST sell more books than Jinger.  That's HUGE.  

Was Jill raised in a horrible situation?  Absolutely.  Does she deserve compensation? You bet.  Was it worth losing most of her family by burning the whole motherfucker down?  Only she knows.  

 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, SnapHappy said:

I'm sure the humiliation and embarrassment that the younger ones at home, Jordyn, Jennifer, etc. are going through is worth it, as long as Jill & Derrick get their revenge on her parents.  And make the NY times list.

I doubt the younger ones know much about any of this, but I really don't think I remember Jill saying anything that would be embarrassing to them.  Jim Bob, yes. Michelle, yes. Josh, yes. But no one else - that I remember. There were a couple sections about some of her siblings visiting and pressuring her, but I felt based on the context that was Jessa/Jana/John David/ etc.

[dariafan]

3 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

Guess what everyone is getting for Christmas 🤣

Or what the reading is for a ladies class!

[Panopticon]

Jill basically didn’t mention the majority of her siblings absent the occasional name check. The named siblings who actually *do* things in the book are limited to Josh, Jessa, and maybe Jana/Jinger/John if you squint. All adults. All portrayed positively or neutrally with the obvious exception of Josh.

Jill mentioned in passing that Jenni was her buddy and she loved her. That’s it. That was public information anyway, and if it’s embarrassing to Jennifer she can lay it at her parents’ feet for making her a public figure.

I don’t think the younger girls should get veto power over Jill discussing their parents’ actions honestly.

[MaryAnneSpier]

2 hours ago, SnapHappy said:

So Jim Bob made money at the expense of his children, and they had no say in it. And that was VERY BAD. 

Now Jill & Derrick are making money with a book, at the expense of her siblings, some still minors and living at home. And they had no say in that.  So that is VERY GOOD?

I'm sure the humiliation and embarrassment that the younger ones at home, Jordyn, Jennifer, etc. are going through is worth it, as long as Jill & Derrick get their revenge on her parents.  And make the NY times list.  

Oh, and they MUST sell more books than Jinger.  That's HUGE.  

Was Jill raised in a horrible situation?  Absolutely.  Does she deserve compensation? You bet.  Was it worth losing most of her family by burning the whole motherfucker down?  Only she knows.  

 

I view it more as "Was JB's ego, greed, power-trip and selfishness  worth losing some of his family?" Jill's parents sold her and her siblings' childhood out in order to get fame and money without any visible qualms on their part, so I have no qualms whatsoever with Jill cashing in on the family name. As others have said, she barely mentioned siblings by name, so I don't see Jill's book release itself affecting the Duggar offspring. If there are repercussions, it's because of JB and Michelle and their past and current actions. 

[AstridM]

4 hours ago, SnapHappy said:

So Jim Bob made money at the expense of his children, and they had no say in it. And that was VERY BAD. 

Now Jill & Derrick are making money with a book, at the expense of her siblings, some still minors and living at home. And they had no say in that.  So that is VERY GOOD?

I'm sure the humiliation and embarrassment that the younger ones at home, Jordyn, Jennifer, etc. are going through is worth it, as long as Jill & Derrick get their revenge on her parents.  And make the NY times list.  

Oh, and they MUST sell more books than Jinger.  That's HUGE.  

Was Jill raised in a horrible situation?  Absolutely.  Does she deserve compensation? You bet.  Was it worth losing most of her family by burning the whole motherfucker down?  Only she knows.  

 

At the expense of her siblings? How? Jill was very careful to tell only her own story. And while obviously being proud of her own book sales, Jill has never compared her sales to Jinger’s. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by AstridM

[oliviabenson]

7 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

Guess what everyone is getting for Christmas 🤣

You get a book, you get a book!!! Yay! Are you excited?!

[lascuba]

On 9/21/2023 at 2:27 PM, quarks said:

Nope. 

The full quote:

"Derick had been making comments on Twitter, speaking his mind about various topics and making a few enemies. It earned him a quiet conversation with Pops and a warning. 'Be careful,' he said. 'If you've got problems, come to me.'

Neither of us felt much like taking him up on his offer at first."

And indeed, instead of taking him up on his offer, a couple of paragraphs later, they sent Jim Bob a 27 page letter.

So it's not just that Derick's multiple issues on Twitter are reduced to "making a few enemies," rather than "harassing a teenager and garnering so much criticism/pushback that even Jim Bob felt the need to say something," but in context are presented as just part of the ongoing problems with Jim Bob.

It seems everything that makes them look bad--including everything involving their "missionary work"--is reduced  while they play up their victimhood.

4 hours ago, deaja said:

I doubt the younger ones know much about any of this, but I really don't think I remember Jill saying anything that would be embarrassing to them.  Jim Bob, yes. Michelle, yes. Josh, yes. But no one else - that I remember. There were a couple sections about some of her siblings visiting and pressuring her, but I felt based on the context that was Jessa/Jana/John David/ etc.

From the excerpts I've read, the "joking" about Jana and Gothard's penchant for blonds gave me pause. For someone who's so incensed about the In Touch story that she name checks the local officials who released the report (even though they were clearly acting in good faith after receiving the FOIA request), it's kind of suspect to let loose with that implication.

[Salacious Kitty]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

It seems everything that makes them look bad--including everything involving their "missionary work"--is reduced  while they play up their victimhood.

From the excerpts I've read, the "joking" about Jana and Gothard's penchant for blonds gave me pause. For someone who's so incensed about the In Touch story that she name checks the local officials who released the report (even though they were clearly acting in good faith after receiving the FOIA request), it's kind of suspect to let loose with that implication.

I think Jill told that story to illustrate that they knew there was something off about Gothard, but Boobchelle chose to ignore it because Gothardism was keeping the kids under their control.

[lascuba]

1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I think Jill told that story to illustrate that they knew there was something off about Gothard, but Boobchelle chose to ignore it because Gothardism was keeping the kids under their control.

I don't think she was deliberately implying anything, but I know if my name was brought up that way in reference to Gothard's abuses, I'd be pissed, because the implication is definitely there. That was extremely careless of Jill...her intentions don't matter.

[SnapHappy]

Quote

Jill mentioned in passing that Jenni was her buddy and she loved her. That’s it. That was public information anyway, and if it’s embarrassing to Jennifer she can lay it at her parents’ feet for making her a public figure.

Of course, when Jenni's virginity goes up on the auction block in a couple of years, she won't have anything to worry about.  All family secrets are out there in print for her prospective buyer to read through.  Johanna's 17, so she may already be on deck. 

Though I don't imagine the remaining girls are going to be too popular since Jill's made it clear what a shit-show any potential bridegroom will be marrying into.  Who the fuck is going to want THAT?

But there's plenty of room in the TTH for Jenni, Johanna, Jordyn & Josie to keep Jana company for the rest of their lives. 

And of course everything is Jim Bob & Michelle's fault.  That's never been disputed.  It's just the fallout from Jill's dumpster fire is also hitting the innocent parties. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by SnapHappy

[ginger90]

27 minutes ago, SnapHappy said:

It's just the fallout from Jill's dumpster fire

Jill didn’t start the fire.

Makes me think of, We didn't start the fire 

No, we didn't light it, but we tried to fight it.

 

Or

The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire
We don't need no water, let the mother****** burn

Edited September 22, 2023 by ginger90

[crazy8s]

48 minutes ago, SnapHappy said:

Of course, when Jenni's virginity goes up on the auction block in a couple of years, she won't have anything to worry about.  All family secrets are out there in print for her prospective buyer to read through.  Johanna's 17, so she may already be on deck. 

Though I don't imagine the remaining girls are going to be too popular since Jill's made it clear what a shit-show any potential bridegroom will be marrying into.  Who the fuck is going to want THAT?

I am not so sure it will make any difference as far as arranging courtships/marriages for the younger girls. The circle of parents of any possible available spouses are like minded to JB and Meech.

Josh's past seems to have been common knowledge among their church families, the Big Sandy, IBLP and maybe the home schooling crowd. That didn't prevent courtships for any other duggar of courting age. How many have courted and married since the Josh scandels have been in the news?

I am going to speculate many of the parents of potential courtship partners will see absolutely zero things wrong with JB's actions because that is how they would act as well.

[mythoughtis]

It’s not as if the Duggar family has been living a quiet private life up until Jill decided to write a book.  Their odd ideas are forever immortalized on film.  Josh’s behavior is written all over the internet ( and the internet is forever).  Amy has been interviewed countless times. Jinger, Jeremy, James, Jessa and Joy post all sorts of stuff.  Jana tried to for a while. Jed ran for office. 

If the younger ones are scarred for life, it’s because of all that and JB and Michelle.  Jill’s book isn’t going to harm them.  Should all the  former fundies out there with blogs and podcasts go silent?  Maybe the Willis clan or the Brown piano group should have let their fathers continue  on and not called attention to their plights because the publicity might harm a different family member? 

Edited September 23, 2023 by mythoughtis

[MaryAnneSpier]

This viewpoint of tssk tssk-ing Jill for sharing her story is exactly why the cycle of abuse continues and why it's important for those who are strong enough to speak out against it to do so. One voice can empower other voices, so those who were abused can feel understood, can realize that what they went through is not common, and can seek help.

That's why I so heartily applaud Jill for releasing her book; yes she and Derick still have a ways to go in some of their beliefs and may never get there. But she's calling out abuse, manipulation, misogyny, religious legalism, etc. against the denomination she was brought up in and the parents who supported and followed it. My heart goes out to her. Those who imply Jill should have kept her trap shut are part of the problem and are why survivors keep silent as they watch others suffer through the same abuses they went through. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by MaryAnneSpier

[Future Cat Lady]

Jill and Jinger’s books are nothing compared to all the sex scandals.
Josh is the one who brought shame to the family.

Besides, in fundieland, Jill and Jinger are viewed as the bad ones not JB & M.

[MaryAnneSpier]

2 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

Jill and Jinger’s books are nothing compared to all the sex scandals.
Josh is the one who brought shame to the family.

Besides, in fundieland, Jill and Jinger are viewed as the bad ones not JB & M.

Yep, it's the females' fault for tempting males to sin. Then when Satan, working through the women, causes the males to stumble, it's up to the females to clean up the mess. Gah, this is why I just cannot bring myself to be part of any church at the moment. I used to be part of churches like this when I was growing up, and it's taken a very long time to process it all. 

[GeeGolly]

Every person has the right to tell their story. Its that simple, but really its also very complicated.

Just as many have speculated Jinger's book is really Jeremy and MacDaddy's, some speculate Jill's book is really Derick's. The thought is they went from one headship to another. That wouldn't be telling their story.

Any personal story 'worth reading' is going to have collateral damage - some known, but also some not known, possibly including the author. I doubt Jill's book is going to do individual damage to any of her siblings, but it is damaging to the family as a whole. And of course its damaging to JB, but Jill knew that. That's not a reason to keep quiet, but it is something to consider.

Timing also matters. There is a time during processing/growth when publicly telling your story can do more harm than good and there's a time when it can be right for some folks.

Considering the family's history and who they surround themselves with, its not unreasonable to think Jill may have some regrets in writing this book. But its also true that we have no idea where Jill is in processing any issues and where she is in regard to personal growth. Maybe this is her book and the timing is right. No matter what, I hope this book has empowered Jill and has had a positive impact on her healing.

[lascuba]

I don't think Jill has any moral obligation to consider how her siblings might feel about her book, as long as she sticks to her experiences. She also doesn't get to feel indignant or victimized if those siblings are upset with her for how her book affects them and the family structure. 

Jill has the right to say what she wants about her life, and everyone else has the right to analyze her statements and criticize where they see fit. From my perspective, as someone who watched the show from the first special and has talked about the family online for almost that long, some of the excerpts I've read don't hold water for me. 

1. Everything about their missionary "work." I know the vast majority of people don't care about everything wrong with missioncations and god-bothering poor people in other countries, but her complaints that TLC didn't allow them to harass people the way they wanted doesn't speak well of her at all. I'm supposed to sympathize about how scared she was with the gang violence? Yeah, no. 

2. Making light of Derick harassing a teenager online. This even more than the missionary stuff proves that she is still deeply fundie in all the worst ways. 

3. Calling out the county officials she sued by name. She really, really wants to paint a target in their back, and is further proof that it was her idea to accuse them if accepting bribes during the Megyn Kelly interview, and that she wasn't as reluctant to do that interview as she claims. Let's not forget the emails showing her going back and forth with Chad about all she wanted to say.

4. In light of #3, mentioning Jana in relation to Gothard is incredibly careless. 

There aren't enough baby steps in the world for those two. 

[Absolom]

I'm still upset about dragging Jana and Gothard into the book.  If there is a story to be told there, it isn't Jill's story.  If there's no story, then it was incredibly rude and careless given Gothard's reputation.  

[GeeGolly]

19 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I don't think Jill has any moral obligation to consider how her siblings might feel about her book, as long as she sticks to her experiences. She also doesn't get to feel indignant or victimized if those siblings are upset with her for how her book affects them and the family structure. 

Jill has the right to say what she wants about her life, and everyone else has the right to analyze her statements and criticize where they see fit. From my perspective, as someone who watched the show from the first special and has talked about the family online for almost that long, some of the excerpts I've read don't hold water for me. 

1. Everything about their missionary "work." I know the vast majority of people don't care about everything wrong with missioncations and god-bothering poor people in other countries, but her complaints that TLC didn't allow them to harass people the way they wanted doesn't speak well of her at all. I'm supposed to sympathize about how scared she was with the gang violence? Yeah, no. 

2. Making light of Derick harassing a teenager online. This even more than the missionary stuff proves that she is still deeply fundie in all the worst ways. 

3. Calling out the county officials she sued by name. She really, really wants to paint a target in their back, and is further proof that it was her idea to accuse them if accepting bribes during the Megyn Kelly interview, and that she wasn't as reluctant to do that interview as she claims. Let's not forget the emails showing her going back and forth with Chad about all she wanted to say.

4. In light of #3, mentioning Jana in relation to Gothard is incredibly careless. 

There aren't enough baby steps in the world for those two. 

1 minute ago, Absolom said:

I'm still upset about dragging Jana and Gothard into the book.  If there is a story to be told there, it isn't Jill's story.  If there's no story, then it was incredibly rude and careless given Gothard's reputation.  

After all of Derick's threats to write a book, the fact this book discusses mostly events that happened after the Dillard marriage and the excerpts like those above have me thinking this is more/all Derick's book than Jill's.

On SHP Derick said something like JB put Jill in the firing line. If this book is Derick's doing, he's doing the same.

 

[Panopticon]

While poor Jana is definitely collateral damage with respect to the Gothard issue, I think that Jill-- and for that matter, Jinger-- was basically in an impossible position with respect to Gothard and his wandering hands.

Jinger's book was about her religious journey away from Gothardism, which she now views as dangerous. Does she leave out the matter of Gothard's reputation, thereby opening herself to criticism that she really still supports that breed of damaging religion because she's silent on the matter? Or does she mention it and bring up the old rumors about Jana?

Jill's book was about the personal cost of having been part of the family that best advertised Gothardism, including the way she was sacrificed to protect her sexually abusive brother. Does she leave out the matter of Gothard's reputation, which so strongly underlines her thesis, or does she mention it and bring up old rumors about Jana?

Sometimes a part of a story is even more conspicuous by its absence than by its presence.

If Jill's story begins "my family was a public advertisement for this disgusting man's power trip," could she fail to explain why he was disgusting? If she explained why he was disgusting, could she fail to explain whether she and her sisters-- who were the public face of the entire movement for years-- were part of Gothard's infamous group of "girls," and if not, why not? If she left that out entirely, would that give rise to even more speculation?

It wouldn't be the first time. Plenty of public stories about Josh molesting four of his then-five sisters included speculation about the fifth. Why did he leave Jana alone? Was it because she was Gothard's girl?

Jill didn't spill any new information. That Jana was one of Gothard's favorites was out there. That Gothard sexually abused some but not all of his favorites was out there.

I agree that Jana's experience with Gothard is not Jill's story to tell. I agree that that passage in the book is not fair to Jana. I would fully understand Jana being furious with Jill over that passage. But I'm not entirely sure that Jill could have told her own story about seeing her own life as a Gothard foot soldier in a new light without that context.

 

[libgirl2]

Birthday  gift card..... I bought the book. 

[auntieminem]

The book is clearly written from Jill's POV and in her voice. It is her story about her trauma and struggles to become her own person. It really is not Derick's book though he is a big part of her story in his support of her.  I can see his involvement more so in the sections when they are dealing with money and contract issues. She is a self proclaimed people pleaser and her childhood was about being the best and most faithful child aka Sweet Jilly Muffin. Her story centers around her becoming aware and breaking away from IBLP and her father's control. Kudos to her ghost writer, he did a very good job. 

[GeeGolly]

9 minutes ago, auntieminem said:

The book is clearly written from Jill's POV and in her voice. It is her story about her trauma and struggles to become her own person. It really is not Derick's book though he is a big part of her story in his support of her.  I can see his involvement more so in the sections when they are dealing with money and contract issues. She is a self proclaimed people pleaser and her childhood was about being the best and most faithful child aka Sweet Jilly Muffin. Her story centers around her becoming aware and breaking away from IBLP and her father's control. Kudos to her ghost writer, he did a very good job. 

I understand the book was written to appear as Jill's story, but that doesn't mean it isn't really Derick's. Everything I've read about the book hits all the points Derick was discussing when he was promising to write a book. Jill likely agrees with Derick's opinions. They could have written the story together and used Jill as the author because it would sell more books.

As you said Jill is a self-proclaimed people pleaser. Maybe now she is pleasing Derick.

 

[lascuba]

52 minutes ago, Panopticon said:

While poor Jana is definitely collateral damage with respect to the Gothard issue, I think that Jill-- and for that matter, Jinger-- was basically in an impossible position with respect to Gothard and his wandering hands.

Jinger's book was about her religious journey away from Gothardism, which she now views as dangerous. Does she leave out the matter of Gothard's reputation, thereby opening herself to criticism that she really still supports that breed of damaging religion because she's silent on the matter? Or does she mention it and bring up the old rumors about Jana?

Jill's book was about the personal cost of having been part of the family that best advertised Gothardism, including the way she was sacrificed to protect her sexually abusive brother. Does she leave out the matter of Gothard's reputation, which so strongly underlines her thesis, or does she mention it and bring up old rumors about Jana?

Sometimes a part of a story is even more conspicuous by its absence than by its presence.

If Jill's story begins "my family was a public advertisement for this disgusting man's power trip," could she fail to explain why he was disgusting? If she explained why he was disgusting, could she fail to explain whether she and her sisters-- who were the public face of the entire movement for years-- were part of Gothard's infamous group of "girls," and if not, why not? If she left that out entirely, would that give rise to even more speculation?

It wouldn't be the first time. Plenty of public stories about Josh molesting four of his then-five sisters included speculation about the fifth. Why did he leave Jana alone? Was it because she was Gothard's girl?

Jill didn't spill any new information. That Jana was one of Gothard's favorites was out there. That Gothard sexually abused some but not all of his favorites was out there.

I agree that Jana's experience with Gothard is not Jill's story to tell. I agree that that passage in the book is not fair to Jana. I would fully understand Jana being furious with Jill over that passage. But I'm not entirely sure that Jill could have told her own story about seeing her own life as a Gothard foot soldier in a new light without that context.

 

Talking about Jana doesn't add any  context to what is supposed to be Jill's story. It would have been enough to talk about Gothard and his relationship to her family as a whole. 

It's blatantly hypocritical for Jill to go on about how the legal release of official police records was a grievous wrong done to her, but her implying that her sister was one of the victims of a notorious cult leader was just part of her story she has the right to tell. 

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, lascuba said:

Talking about Jana doesn't add any  context to what is supposed to be Jill's story. It would have been enough to talk about Gothard and his relationship to her family as a whole. 

It's blatantly hypocritical for Jill to go on about how the legal release of official police records was a grievous wrong done to her, but her implying that her sister was one of the victims of a notorious cult leader was just part of her story she has the right to tell. 

From the excerpts I've read it seems Jill showed more grace toward Anna and her right to privacy than she did Jana.

[Absolom]

If Jill and Derick could so seriously gloss over his tweets then Jana could have been left out.

[Panopticon]

2 minutes ago, Absolom said:

If Jill and Derick could so seriously gloss over his tweets then Jana could have been left out.

I genuinely don’t get how those topics are remotely comparable.

It’s a book about a family that operated under the rules of Gothardism and the negative fallout of that ministry. So it touched on Gothard’s behavior toward young women, how Jill was a victim of that same behavior from her brother, how Jill was used by her father to protect her brother, and how Gothard himself interacted with the family (including not “choosing” Jill and Jill later realizing how dangerous the situation was).

It’s not a book about Twitter wars or gender identity,  nor is it a book about Derick’s journey except as it pertains to his support of Jill and the complications that arose from having Duggars as in-laws. 

I get the argument that she could have left out the line about Gothard and Jana, although as I said above I do think that the line was important to Jill’s story. 

But I just don’t understand how Derick’s social media hijinks are as relevant to the story of Jill’s awakening as Gothard’s fixation on the Duggar sisters and the prevalence of abuse in his religion.

[Salacious Kitty]

Jill had to mention the tweets. As she noted, public opinion (including here) speculated that the tweets led to the Dillards being fired from CO. Jill told the true story that we didn't know, denouncing the rumors. 

[lascuba]

37 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I understand the book was written to appear as Jill's story, but that doesn't mean it isn't really Derick's. Everything I've read about the book hits all the points Derick was discussing when he was promising to write a book. Jill likely agrees with Derick's opinions. They could have written the story together and used Jill as the author because it would sell more books.

As you said Jill is a self-proclaimed people pleaser. Maybe now she is pleasing Derick.

 

It's funny to me - on multiple fronts - that if JB had only been nicer to Jill, kept treating her like the golden child, and paid for the expenses from Israel's birth, all of this could have been avoided.

4 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Jill had to mention the tweets. As she noted, public opinion (including here) speculated that the tweets led to the Dillards being fired from CO. Jill told the true story that we didn't know, denouncing the rumors. 

It seems like a fair bit of the book is responding to rumors and making themselves look better. People are now even justifying the shower rack incident. 

I never believed the rumors that they were fired from TLC over the tweets, because TLC made it a point to NOT say that Derick was fired, only that he hadn't been working for them for some time. But rumors spreading like the do, it does make sense that she would bring it up in the book. What doesn't make sense is her dismissal of the significance of Dericks social media behavior, when she's trying to give the impression that her beliefs are somehow better that IBLP when they really haven't changed at all. Nose rings and pants do not menu much.

[Absolom]

25 minutes ago, Panopticon said:

I genuinely don’t get how those topics are remotely comparable.

They can gloss over a serious problem on their side of the fence while laying out something about someone else that they could just as easily have left out.  

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, Panopticon said:

But I just don’t understand how Derick’s social media hijinks are as relevant to the story of Jill’s awakening as Gothard’s fixation on the Duggar sisters and the prevalence of abuse in his religion.

If the book was so focused on Gothard/IBLP then why mention Derick's gross SM behavior at all? And why address those rumors and leave the Jana rumors as still rumors?

I also have another question - did Jill align JB's disgusting behaviors with Gothard teachings? Because really JB seems to have been a money obsessed tightwad from the get go - pre-Gothard.

[Salacious Kitty]

The Gothard stuff has nothing to do with Derick's bad behavior. Two entirely different topics. 

Boob went to a Gothard seminar in high school, so the basis was there when he met and married Meech. Of course, Dr. Wheat told them that the pill causes miscarriages, which is when I think they were all in. Boob followed Jim Sammons' financial advice from early on in their marriage. I don't think there was a time in the marriage that wasn't tainted by Gothard in some form. They merely fell deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole, and they're still there.