Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Iguessnot]

8 hours ago, merylinkid said:

It says Josh didn't interact with her much.   I can see Anna sitting there babbling away about how God put this rock in their path so their marriage can be stronger and did he read the books she sent, blah, blah, blah and him doing ANYTHING but listening to her.   

We don't know how true this story is, but if Anna was doing all that talking and trying to engage Josh, I'm sure that would have been noted.

[Ljohnson1987]

Anna may be getting used to what her reality is. I hope she never interacts with Josh in prison. Why is she seeing him anyway? Move on, Anna! Don't subject your kids to the monster that you married. 

[jcbrown]

6 hours ago, SMama said:

I’m going straight to hell for this but the thought of holier than thou, judgmental, prissy Anna getting a pat down makes me smile. 

Please save me a seat in your handbasket.

[Mindthinkr]

14 hours ago, Ljohnson1987 said:

Anna may be getting used to what her reality is. I hope she never interacts with Josh in prison. Why is she seeing him anyway? Move on, Anna! Don't subject your kids to the monster that you married. 

It might be that TTH expects her to continue to be his wife (in outward appearances) and allow his children to see him as part of the agreement on living in the big house. 

16 hours ago, AstridM said:

There is no hell, so you’re good. 🙂

I’m going to the Rainbow Bridge to be reunited with all my animals 🐾

[libgirl2]

45 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

It might be that TTH expects her to continue to be his wife (in outward appearances) and allow his children to see him as part of the agreement on living in the big house. 

I’m going to the Rainbow Bridge to be reunited with all my animals 🐾

My late father in law loved animals and they loved him. He had two rescue greyhounds with Monty being the favorite. The last thing he said was he did was the dog's name. That made me believe that when we pass, our pet or pets are there to help us pass over to the other side. They are the first "faces" we see. 

Back to Anna, it is possible that there is pressure from the family (including her parents) to go see him, but I honestly don't think that is the case. She is standing by her man all on her own. 

[AstridM]

4 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

It might be that TTH expects her to continue to be his wife (in outward appearances) and allow his children to see him as part of the agreement on living in the big house.  🐾

If she refused, would JB actually kick Anna and 7 kids out? I doubt it.

[Salacious Kitty]

29 minutes ago, AstridM said:

If she refused, would JB actually kick Anna and 7 kids out? I doubt it.

It would be horrible optics for an already despised man to kick out his grandchildren. Not to mention Anna having to support herself. Who knows how much land she has left to sell?

[merylinkid]

11 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

It might be that TTH expects her to continue to be his wife (in outward appearances) and allow his children to see him as part of the agreement on living in the big house. 

I’m going to the Rainbow Bridge to be reunited with all my animals 🐾

I doubt one of the rules is that Anna has to let Josh see the kids.  Before he went away he wasn't that interested in the kids, I highly doubt that he has suddenly discovered the joys of fstherhood in prison. Now could Head Idiot be requiring Anna to make it look like Josh cares?  Yes.  But thats different than be required to let him see the kuds.  

[beckie]

I can see him raising a ruckus when he gets out, that he was allowed to see his children and be in their presence while locked up, and it not being fair that he can't do it when out. Even if he doesn't want to, I can see him doing it. 

I hope Anna comes to her senses long before his time is up and stops going. Or at very least stops taking the kids. I was completely creeped out when I read that he held the baby the whole visit.

Edited January 15, 2023 by beckie
Spelling is important

[CrazyInAlabama]

I'm sure when FF gets out, even with restrictions, he'll move back to the compound, and be daddy's favorite son as always.  

Edited January 15, 2023 by CrazyInAlabama

[Snow Fairy]

If daddy will still be alive. Anything can happen

[SMama]

If the unthinkable happens while FF is incarcerated the crown Prince will most likely be JD. I wonder how the remaining 18 would treat FF in a post JB world.

[Salacious Kitty]

24 minutes ago, SMama said:

If the unthinkable happens while FF is incarcerated the crown Prince will most likely be JD. I wonder how the remaining 18 would treat FF in a post JB world.

FF was a Mama's boy. JB's money would go to her, and she could easily bankroll FF's post-prison life if she wanted to. JD couldn't do anything about it, aside from inwardly fume.

[GeeGolly]

JB&M are younger than at least a third of us posters, so thinking of either of them near death due to age, makes me chuckle.

Its a given someone will be bankrolling the FF upon release because any money he has will go the balance of the fines he owes. Although the judge did make it sound as if J&A were flush.

Since the FF is basically unemployable I'm sure JB, M or JD, if that's the case, will create a job for him so he'll have steady income. None of the Duggars want the M&Ms to suffer.

[SMama]

6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

JB&M are younger than at least a third of us posters, so thinking of either of them near death due to age, makes me chuckle.

Its a given someone will be bankrolling the FF upon release because any money he has will go the balance of the fines he owes. Although the judge did make it sound as if J&A were flush.

Since the FF is basically unemployable I'm sure JB, M or JD, if that's the case, will create a job for him so he'll have steady income. None of the Duggars want the M&Ms to suffer.

That is why I said unthinkable because they are relatively young and in seemingly good health. 

I’m sure no one wants the Ms to suffer but there are ways to take care of Anna and the kids while completely leaving the FF out of the financial loop.

If they create a job for FF, wouldn’t that money be garnished to cover his fines?

[GeeGolly]

4 minutes ago, SMama said:

That is why I said unthinkable because they are relatively young and in seemingly good health. 

I’m sure no one wants the Ms to suffer but there are ways to take care of Anna and the kids while completely leaving the FF out of the financial loop.

If they create a job for FF, wouldn’t that money be garnished to cover his fines?

The judge said it would not be a hardship for Josh to pay his fines, so I think the fines will be paid off upon his release.

I'm not sure any of the Duggars want their brother/son/husband/dad to be homeless and broke, so I don't think they would want to keep him out of the financial loop.

[awaken]

5 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I'm sure when FF gets out, even with restrictions, he'll move back to the compound, and be daddy's favorite son as always.  

Agree, I have no doubt they’ll go right back into the same roles as before. 

[Zella]

3 hours ago, SMama said:

the crown Prince will most likely be JD.

I think Jed! is the new anointed one. 

[Salacious Kitty]

5 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think Jed! is the new anointed one. 

I agree. He's doing everything his father did, including running a junker lot and breeding like rabbits.

[Zella]

1 minute ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I agree. He's doing everything his father did, including running a junker lot and breeding like rabbits.

Yeah for whatever reason, it seems like JD, Joe, and Josiah were all found wanting and have been skipped as the Fundie Prince Who Was Promised. 

[MaryAnneSpier]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

Yeah for whatever reason, it seems like JD, Joe, and Josiah were all found wanting and have been skipped as the Fundie Prince Who Was Promised. 

I wonder why JD isn't the new favored male. He's the next oldest after Josh and followed in the family expectations. Maybe because he courted/dated Abbie without his daddy's blessing before announcing they were engaged...? That's all I can think of. 

[Salacious Kitty]

Joe is also following in his father's footsteps in many ways, but he's too introverted to be the heir apparent. Jed! inherited his father's brash personality.

[Zella]

12 minutes ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

I wonder why JD isn't the new favored male. He's the next oldest after Josh and followed in the family expectations. Maybe because he courted/dated Abbie without his daddy's blessing before announcing they were engaged...? That's all I can think of. 

I think JD is actually disinterested in it, and my guess is Joe is too. 

Just now, Salacious Kitty said:

Jed! inherited his father's brash personality.

Yes I think this is key. JD and Joe both both seem to be more introverted--or at least less interested in attention for the sake of attention. Once upon a time, Josiah was outgoing and probably had a natural theater kid energy that may have made him better at this than either Josh or Jed!, but that's clearly been wrung out of him. So, I think you have to skip from Josh to Jed! to get someone who's at least interested enough in it and deluded enough to think he's good at it. 

[BetyBee]

How interesting to think of the family dynamic when Josh returns. That could inspire a book that I would read! But I don't think anyone in the family would write anything that didn't describe a perfect Christian family.

[SMama]

58 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

How interesting to think of the family dynamic when Josh returns. That could inspire a book that I would read! But I don't think anyone in the family would write anything that didn't describe a perfect Christian family.

Give Jill time and she may surprise you.  She has provided glimpses of her not perfect family.  

[crazy8s]

By the time Josh gets out Jed! may also be cast aside and we may find Michael or Marcus being the new heir apparent.

[GeeGolly]

Talk about the heir and the spare, JD has never lived up to JB's expectations. He was quiet, a bit awkward and immature and the not so handsome duckling of the bunch of sons. JD came into his own as the FF was falling from grace, but by then neither JB or JD liked each other all that much. Poor Joe has tics and Josiah had a public 'reputation' so Jed! was it.

[crazy8s]

I do find it interesting JB formed a new llc listed under a law firm about 2 weeks before Josh was arrested.

Not Travis story. This firm claims they specializes in estate planning. "ensuring your wishes and goals are carried out properly after your passing."

So far Shiloh Properties llc has bought every piece of land surrounding Jed!'s car lot from the JB and Meech trust. The car lot and the house Jed! and Katie live in are still owned by the JB and meech trust.

 

 

[Salacious Kitty]

19 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

I do find it interesting JB formed a new llc listed under a law firm about 2 weeks before Josh was arrested.

Not Travis story. This firm claims they specializes in estate planning. "ensuring your wishes and goals are carried out properly after your passing."

So far Shiloh Properties llc has bought every piece of land surrounding Jed!'s car lot from the JB and Meech trust. The car lot and the house Jed! and Katie live in are still owned by the JB and meech trust.

 

 

Whose trust is Shiloh Properties? I assume JB since he went to Shiloh Christian School. 

[crazy8s]

13 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Whose trust is Shiloh Properties? I assume JB since he went to Shiloh Christian School. 

yes JB is Shiloh properties

 

[jcbrown]

23 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Joe is also following in his father's footsteps in many ways, but he's too introverted to be the heir apparent. Jed! inherited his father's brash personality.

So Jed! is also an asshole? Never mind, I know the answer.

23 hours ago, Zella said:

I think JD is actually disinterested in it, and my guess is Joe is too. 

Yes I think this is key. JD and Joe both both seem to be more introverted--or at least less interested in attention for the sake of attention. Once upon a time, Josiah was outgoing and probably had a natural theater kid energy that may have made him better at this than either Josh or Jed!, but that's clearly been wrung out of him. So, I think you have to skip from Josh to Jed! to get someone who's at least interested enough in it and deluded enough to think he's good at it. 

Agreed. Also, free Josiah. Though I don't think he knows he needs freeing.

[FizzyPuff]

Katie WOACB said that a guy came to visit Josh in prison and kissed him on the lips when he greeted him (take that with a pinch of salt if you will) apparently they were both very flirty with each other. I’m not sure if I believe this but it does sound shocking. I wonder if Anna would leave Josh if she thought he was gay? 
18:30 Is when she starts talking about this: 

 

[libgirl2]

51 minutes ago, FizzyPuff said:

Katie WOACB said that a guy came to visit Josh in prison and kissed him on the lips when he greeted him (take that with a pinch of salt if you will) apparently they were both very flirty with each other. I’m not sure if I believe this but it does sound shocking. I wonder if Anna would leave Josh if she thought he was gay? 
18:30 Is when she starts talking about this: 

 

I don't think I believe that but with FF anything is possible. 

[SMama]

1 minute ago, libgirl2 said:

I don't think I believe that but with FF anything is possible. 

I’m with you but must admit that the tale getting out there will probably make JB furious because he no longer controls the narrative. I’m all in on anything that makes JB and Michelle uncomfortable, helpless, ashamed. It’s a small price to pay for how they screwed up 19 kids. 

[mimionthebeach]

On 1/16/2023 at 9:01 AM, GeeGolly said:

Talk about the heir and the spare, JD has never lived up to JB's expectations. He was quiet, a bit awkward and immature and the not so handsome duckling of the bunch of sons. JD came into his own as the FF was falling from grace, but by then neither JB or JD liked each other all that much. Poor Joe has tics and Josiah had a public 'reputation' so Jed! was it.

Joe also has "problematic" in-laws, to whom he had proved very generous. No way JB wasn't any party of his empire to fall into Caldwell hands. 

[Salacious Kitty]

3 hours ago, mimionthebeach said:

Joe also has "problematic" in-laws, to whom he had proved very generous. No way JB wasn't any party of his empire to fall into Caldwell hands. 

The Caldwells were spotted at the Duggar Fall Festival (or whatever the hell they call it). It appears that the patriarchs have set aside their differences.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Salacious Kitty

[ginger90]

Government submits new citation refuting Duggar claim in appeal:

 

https://www.nwahomepage.com/josh-duggar-trial/government-submits-new-citation-refuting-duggar-claim-in-appeal/

[ChristmasCandy]

His lawyers will keep appealing his sentence even when he gets released from prison.

[Stevie Nicks]

I'm surprised that Jim Blob is still bankrolling lawyers for the FF. I would have thought that he would have given up and just let him do his sentence. 

[dariafan]

On 1/15/2023 at 6:43 PM, GeeGolly said:

JB&M are younger than at least a third of us posters, so thinking of either of them near death due to age, makes me chuckle.

Its a given someone will be bankrolling the FF upon release because any money he has will go the balance of the fines he owes. Although the judge did make it sound as if J&A were flush.

Since the FF is basically unemployable I'm sure JB, M or JD, if that's the case, will create a job for him so he'll have steady income. None of the Duggars want the M&Ms to suffer.

They just seem So much older than they are.  Plus all that sodium in their diet doesn’t help 

[quarks]

On 1/26/2023 at 12:04 PM, Stevie Nicks said:

I'm surprised that Jim Blob is still bankrolling lawyers for the FF. I would have thought that he would have given up and just let him do his sentence. 

It's possible - not likely - but possible - that Anna and Josh are funding this by liquidating whatever real estate properties they have left. My sense was that they paid for at least some if not all of the original defense, and it's possible that they had some remaining assets left. 

It's also possible that Josh, Anna and JB are financing at least part of this by asking other families for donations, saying that this is part of fighting for the Lord against false persecution. As per the feds, Josh was saying this during the investigation/after his arrest, and seems to have convinced at least Anna and the neighbors who wrote those not overly convincing letters on his behalf to the judge. So a few people may have been convinced to hand over some money. I mean, these are the same people that thought it was a good idea to send people to Ukraine in the middle of a war to deliver medical supplies (in theory) without any plan of how to get those medical supplies to Poland, much less Ukraine. Common sense does not seem to be one of their big things. 

And given that, it's at least possible that JB feels he has to continue supporting this appeal to maintain whatever standing he may have left in his religious community. Otherwise, he isn't fighting the false persecutions led by Satan.

All that said, I think from a purely financial viewpoint, this is only benefitting the lawyers. 

[Scarlett45]

@quarks I can also believe JB is financing this defense because of love/affection for his first born son. A parent paying for the best legal defense they can afford, when their child has been charged with a crime and faces prison time is pretty typical parental behavior IMO. 

[quarks]

16 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

@quarks I can also believe JB is financing this defense because of love/affection for his first born son. A parent paying for the best legal defense they can afford, when their child has been charged with a crime and faces prison time is pretty typical parental behavior IMO. 

Fair enough. My own dislike of Josh is so strong that I tend to forget that others - particularly his parents - may not see him the same way I do.

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, quarks said:

Fair enough. My own dislike of Josh is so strong that I tend to forget that others - particularly his parents - may not see him the same way I do.

Josh is a vile awful human. I can believe JB doesn’t like him much (he’s been nothing but an embarrassment for years), but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t love him or won’t take care of him. Many parents try until the very end, even if their kid is a POS.

I could see many parents (not just a JB type) paying the lawyers even if they believed their child was guilty. Lionel Dahmer stood by Jeffrey even though he never denied his guilt or claimed he was innocent. 

[Albanyguy]

13 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Josh is a vile awful human. I can believe JB doesn’t like him much (he’s been nothing but an embarrassment for years), but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t love him or won’t take care of him. Many parents try until the very end, even if their kid is a POS.

I could see many parents (not just a JB type) paying the lawyers even if they believed their child was guilty. Lionel Dahmer stood by Jeffrey even though he never denied his guilt or claimed he was innocent. 

Yes, and even if Jim Bob was ready to throw in the towel on Josh, I can’t believe Michelle would allow it. If it were possible for me to feel sorry for Michelle (which it isn’t), this would be the moment. Josh is one of the few kids she actually loves and the thought of him being in prison must be reducing her to an emotional wreck. I’ll bet she’s in a constant state of sobbing and rehashing the past, relieved only by heavy medication. Discontinuing the appeals process would be admitting that Josh won’t be coming home anytime soon and, more importantly, that he will never be “vindicated” by having his conviction reversed. That might just snap the last remaining threads of her sanity.

[Ljohnson1987]

Smugs has no chance to win his appeal. Boob and Michelle should leave and cleave him. He deserves to rot right where he is. 

[Scarlett45]

36 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

Yes, and even if Jim Bob was ready to throw in the towel on Josh, I can’t believe Michelle would allow it. If it were possible for me to feel sorry for Michelle (which it isn’t), this would be the moment. Josh is one of the few kids she actually loves and the thought of him being in prison must be reducing her to an emotional wreck. I’ll bet she’s in a constant state of sobbing and rehashing the past, relieved only by heavy medication. Discontinuing the appeals process would be admitting that Josh won’t be coming home anytime soon and, more importantly, that he will never be “vindicated” by having his conviction reversed. That might just snap the last remaining threads of her sanity.

Yes I agree with you. I do also think Josh has a typical amount of affection for Michelle as his mother (she may be the only person he actually loves in a genuine way). I blame JB and Michelle for a lot, but I don’t blame them for paying their son’s lawyers, most parents I know would do the same. Especially since it’s not as if these legal bills are taking food out of the mouths the minor kids. 

[SMama]

51 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

 

Especially since it’s not as if these legal bills are taking food out of the mouths the minor kids. 

But it’s depleting the money available to the now adult siblings (except Jill) who worked hard, if not even harder for that money. It should not be pissed away on just the FF. JB and Michelle made that money on the backs of their minor kids. By themselves or with only 6 kids TLC would have never looked their way. 

[AstridM]

4 minutes ago, SMama said:

But it’s depleting the money available to the now adult siblings (except Jill) who worked hard, if not even harder for that money. It should not be pissed away on just the FF. JB and Michelle made that money on the backs of their minor kids. By themselves or with only 6 kids TLC would have never looked their way. 

I get your point, but at this point most of their kids are adults who need to start relying on themselves to make livings and support their own growing families. 

[SMama]

20 minutes ago, AstridM said:

I get your point, but at this point most of their kids are adults who need to start relying on themselves to make livings and support their own growing families. 

I agree, once they are given their fair share of the money they made. 😉

Let’s not forget that JB will be supporting Anna and the innocent M’s forever, long after he is gone. Anna will never seek employment, and the FF will be unemployable once he serves his time. Too many resources funneled to just one of the 19. 
 

You are a much better person than me. 😂