Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[madpsych78]

On 2/8/2023 at 10:48 AM, libgirl2 said:

It is hard to say, the whole nature vs. nurture argument. Maybe he would have regardless of his upbringing. Somehow I think it is a great possibility he would have anyway. 

My gut is saying that Josh would have probably had those same curiosities about younger girls. The difference is that in a "normal" family his parents would have sought help with a licensed mental health professional rather than within their cult. The cult essentially positively reinforced Josh's behavior.

[GeeGolly]

The way I see it, Josh molesting his sisters were crimes of opportunities and not a thing for young girls. His next step was hypersexuality with Anna and then reaching out to other adults for even more sex, up until he got caught. Throughout all this Josh was frequently visiting porn sites. After Ashley Madison it seems it was all porn up until he got caught committing his last crime. He likely needed to view more and more deviant sex to meet his sexual 'needs'.

I also think Josh was born fucked up. While he certainly received worse professional treatment and consequences after the molestations than some, I'm going to guess (through my experience as a therapist) he received better 'professional' treatment and punishment than most. I think his family environment may have steered Josh's deviancy for pleasure toward sex, but I think if he was born into another family he may have ended up a serial killer. Under the best family circumstances I still think he would have been in and out of trouble and in and out of treatment for his entire life.

While nurture has a huge impact, nature does too. Molesters, serial killers and the like usually have very typical, law abiding siblings, so it seems logical genetics is at play, much like (though very, very different) having only one kid with diabetes. 

[libgirl2]

6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

The way I see it, Josh molesting his sisters were crimes of opportunities and not a thing for young girls. His next step was hypersexuality with Anna and then reaching out to other adults for even more sex, up until he got caught. Throughout all this Josh was frequently visiting porn sites. After Ashley Madison it seems it was all porn up until he got caught committing his last crime. He likely needed to view more and more deviant sex to meet his sexual 'needs'.

I also think Josh was born fucked up. While he certainly received worse professional treatment and consequences after the molestations than some, I'm going to guess (through my experience as a therapist) he received better 'professional' treatment and punishment than most. I think his family environment may have steered Josh's deviancy for pleasure toward sex, but I think if he was born into another family he may have ended up a serial killer. Under the best family circumstances I still think he would have been in and out of trouble and in and out of treatment for his entire life.

While nurture has a huge impact, nature does too. Molesters, serial killers and the like usually have very typical, law abiding siblings, so it seems logical genetics is at play, much like (though very, very different) having only one kid with diabetes. 

Yes, I watch ID and many times you will see a person who is on there talking about their sibling who is a criminal while they have led a fairly ordinary life themselves. 

[SMama]

15 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

The way I see it, Josh molesting his sisters were crimes of opportunities and not a thing for young girls. His next step was hypersexuality with Anna and then reaching out to other adults for even more sex, up until he got caught. Throughout all this Josh was frequently visiting porn sites. After Ashley Madison it seems it was all porn up until he got caught committing his last crime. He likely needed to view more and more deviant sex to meet his sexual 'needs'.

I also think Josh was born fucked up. While he certainly received worse professional treatment and consequences after the molestations than some, I'm going to guess (through my experience as a therapist) he received better 'professional' treatment and punishment than most. I think his family environment may have steered Josh's deviancy for pleasure toward sex, but I think if he was born into another family he may have ended up a serial killer. Under the best family circumstances I still think he would have been in and out of trouble and in and out of treatment for his entire life.

While nurture has a huge impact, nature does too. Molesters, serial killers and the like usually have very typical, law abiding siblings, so it seems logical genetics is at play, much like (though very, very different) having only one kid with diabetes. 

This does not bode well for the FF post incarceration.

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

This does not bode well for the FF post incarceration.

Totally agree. He seemed to make it 5ish years in between AM and the CSA without getting caught, but when he comes out of prison he will have a lot more eyes on him due to the conditions of his release. I don't think he'll make it a year without getting caught accessing legal porn or some other more deviant porn. Or maybe doing something worse.

Anna doesn't get it, her husband was a sick and disgusting person when he went into jail and he'll be a sick and disgusting person when he gets out.

[Gemma Violet]

Anna will not be happy if this is true:

WOACB says she's heard from more than one source that Josh was put in a special housing unit a week and a half ago because he was caught with a phone.  He could face up to an additional year in prison and also lose any earned time off for good behavior.  Also, not good news for his appeal. 

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Gemma Violet

[Absolom]

Several of us predicted he wouldn't be able to go too long without trying to get around the system one way or another.  If it's true, he'll have different rules for visiting, too.

[Gemma Violet]

If this turns out to be true, either he got the phone from another inmate or someone smuggled it to him during a visit.  I'm assuming if they find out who did it, they will press charges.  

[Scarlett45]

I think Josh is a sadist and a creep, a vile awful human being. I don’t think if he had been born into a “typical” family anyone would’ve gotten him mental health treatment, I think he would’ve been “that guy” who wouldn’t take “no” for an answer and had a “reputation” for expecting favors after a date, and putting drugs in women’s drinks without their consent and proclaiming it was a “misunderstanding”. If his parents caught onto anything there would’ve been 1. Blaming it on “fast girls”, 2. Apologies and payouts when the count started adding up, 3. Pretending they didn’t know anything once he was adult and sticking their heads in the sand.

I do think his siblings wouldn’t have been surprised in the least although none of them would’ve been his victims, but they would’ve known and shaken their head when it became public what he had done.

[Gemma Violet]

WOACB gave some additional info in her comment section.  She said that Josh was found by guards on his phone in his cell out in the open--not trying to hide it.  She said it's more likely that a guard sold the phone to Josh rather than someone smuggled it.  In the Special Housing Unit, Josh will now be locked up 23 hours a day, have two showers per week, no visitors, and one phone call a month.  It could be weeks or months before he is moved back to the general population.

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Gemma Violet

[Salacious Kitty]

If true, this may wake Anna up. Unless she says the guard framed him. 🙄

[merylinkid]

Well we know he wasn't calling Anna so what was he doing with the phone?  And of course he would be blatant about it.  He still hasn't figured out the Rules apply to him too.

 

I have never believed he followed all the rules of his pretrial release.  Just no one reported any violations.

[Bethany]

7 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

I have never believed he followed all the rules of his pretrial release.  Just no one reported any violations.

There was no way in this world that the poor woman Mrs Reber? where he was housed would ever have reported any wrong doing on his part.  No way.  I remember thinking at the time that the judge either didn't understand how things work in the Duggar universe or else didn't particularly care.  Thankfully the judge Josh got for his actual trial wasn't about to let Jim Bob Duggar rule the roost.

[quarks]

I think Josh's appeal is based just on the legal arguments made by his attorneys, not by his behavior in prison. 

But if he does win his appeal, his case will just be sent back to the lower courts to be retried - or dismissed if prosecutors decide it's not worth going through the whole trial again. If he is retried, the prosecutors and the judge might take questionable prison behavior into account.

[js9548]

11 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Well we know he wasn't calling Anna so what was he doing with the phone?  And of course he would be blatant about it.  He still hasn't figured out the Rules apply to him too.

 

I doubt he would be using it to call anyone. Possibly for the internet use?

[ginger90]

There have been many instances of inmates live streaming, and posting selfies on their Facebook accounts, and getting caught.
 

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by ginger90

[merylinkid]

1 hour ago, js9548 said:

I doubt he would be using it to call anyone. Possibly for the internet use?

That;s what I am afraid of consdiering what he is in for.

[ginger90]

I’d be interested in knowing what is found on the cell phone, if this is indeed true.

[SMama]

If this is true the FF won’t make it long after he is released. He’s just going to violate parole or reoffend.

Edited February 11, 2023 by SMama

[quarks]

Even if it's not true, I think he will reoffend. 

[merylinkid]

If he keeps breaking the law in jail, he might not get out.   He might just keep getting new sentences added on.   I really don't think ANY of the Duggars are good at long term thinking and actions/consequences.

[libgirl2]

I don't know if I trust the source, but it is believable. 

[Albanyguy]

4 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I don't know if I trust the source, but it is believable. 

I usually take WOACB with a grain of salt the size of Mount Everest, but I'm willing to believe this one. The details are plausible and it certainly fits everything we know abour Josh's character.

[ginger90]

Who gave the cell to FF? Hmmmm, someone else will be charged for that too.

 

[dariafan]

He still hasn’t learned the rules do actually apply to him 

[Gemma Violet]

4 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Who gave the cell to FF? Hmmmm, someone else will be charged for that too.

 

Apparently, it's a common thing in prisons for unscrupulous guards to sell phones to prisoners for sky high prices.  If this is what happened, Josh must have had some extra chump change in his account to be able to afford it.

Since prisoners are presumably searched after visitors leave, it's unlikely that a visitor was able to smuggle it to him.  (Unless a guard was bribed to skip the post-visitation search.)

[Scarlett45]

43 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

Apparently, it's a common thing in prisons for unscrupulous guards to sell phones to prisoners for sky high prices.  If this is what happened, Josh must have had some extra chump change in his account to be able to afford it.

Since prisoners are presumably searched after visitors leave, it's unlikely that a visitor was able to smuggle it to him.  (Unless a guard was bribed to skip the post-visitation search.)

I can imagine a phone is super valuable in prison- more valuable than weapons or drugs. I’m not surprised if this is true at all. 

[beckie]

Is it possible Anna brought it and he convinced her to do it somehow? Phone calls to/from jail are pretty expensive.

[GeeGolly]

I want the story to be true, but I just don't see how Miss Balls could have so many eyes and ears on the FF all the time, whether her "source" is an inmate or guard. 

 

[Natalie68]

On 2/10/2023 at 6:06 PM, Gemma Violet said:

WOACB gave some additional info in her comment section.  She said that Josh was found by guards on his phone in his cell out in the open--not trying to hide it.  She said it's more likely that a guard sold the phone to Josh rather than someone smuggled it.  In the Special Housing Unit, Josh will now be locked up 23 hours a day, have two showers per week, no visitors, and one phone call a month.  It could be weeks or months before he is moved back to the general population.

 

I couldn't decide whether to laugh or clap!

[ChristmasCandy]

All of us have to remember that FF is the fundie crown 👑 prince and the rules don't apply to him.

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, ChristmasCandy said:

All of us have to remember that FF is the fundie crown 👑 prince and the rules don't apply to him.

The thing is FF knows the rules do apply to him. He was sent away for 6 months the first time. Sent away for 3 - 6(?) the second time and sent away for 12 years the third time. One characteristic of Antisocial Personality Disorder is lack of self-control and impulsivity - like having contraband in prison - rules be damned.

[ChristmasCandy]

5 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

The thing is FF knows the rules do apply to him. He was sent away for 6 months the first time. Sent away for 3 - 6(?) the second time and sent away for 12 years the third time. One characteristic of Antisocial Personality Disorder is lack of self-control and impulsivity - like having contraband in prison - rules be damned.

Sent away where? the first time was construction second time was Jesus Jail and the third time was where he should of been in the first place real jail.

[Salacious Kitty]

3 minutes ago, ChristmasCandy said:

Sent away where? the first time was construction second time was Jesus Jail and the third time was where he should of been in the first place real jail.

Right. I believe the construction place was 3 months. Six months in Jesus Jail. Now 12 years, if not more (presuming the cell phone story is true).

[GeeGolly]

5 minutes ago, ChristmasCandy said:

Sent away where? the first time was construction second time was Jesus Jail and the third time was where he should of been in the first place real jail.

While I think most agree with you, jail was never a realistic possibility the first time. The second time he committed no crime and the third time he did commit a crime and is in jail.

[AstridM]

1 minute ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Right. I believe the construction place was 3 months. Six months in Jesus Jail. Now 12 years, if not more (presuming the cell phone story is true).

Jesus jail was technically his own choice. He wasn’t mandated to be there and was free to leave at any time.

[Salacious Kitty]

2 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Jesus jail was technically his own choice. He wasn’t mandated to be there and was free to leave at any time.

Was it his choice? JB was connected with the church or the program, don't remember which (it's been almost 8 yet). I really think JB forced the issue regarding Jesus Jail. 

And I think FF was stuck, whether he liked it or not. He already knew how to breeze through a religious program. He grew up spitting bible verses and knew the platitudes. Piece of cake for him. 

[GeeGolly]

I believe Josh was sent away the first time from March to July 2003, so 5 months.

[ChristmasCandy]

16 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

While I think most agree with you, jail was never a realistic possibility the first time. The second time he committed no crime and the third time he did commit a crime and is in jail.

If his parents did the correct thing and reported what he did to his sister's he could've done juice jail time.

[Salacious Kitty]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

I believe Josh was sent away the first time from March to July 2003, so 5 months.

I stand corrected. I remembered March, but thought it was 90 days. 

[AstridM]

30 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Was it his choice? JB was connected with the church or the program, don't remember which (it's been almost 8 yet). I really think JB forced the issue regarding Jesus Jail. 

And I think FF was stuck, whether he liked it or not. He already knew how to breeze through a religious program. He grew up spitting bible verses and knew the platitudes. Piece of cake for him. 

That’s why I said “technically.” He was an adult and could have chosen otherwise, if he had wanted to.  He was just a coward who didn’t dare object to Boob’s demands.

[ChristmasCandy]

24 minutes ago, ChristmasCandy said:

If his parents did the correct thing and reported what he did to his sister's he could've done juice jail time.

Juvenile jail 

[madpsych78]

17 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

The thing is FF knows the rules do apply to him. He was sent away for 6 months the first time. Sent away for 3 - 6(?) the second time and sent away for 12 years the third time. One characteristic of Antisocial Personality Disorder is lack of self-control and impulsivity - like having contraband in prison - rules be damned.

He knows the rules apply to him, but that "third" time being sent away is really his first time in federal prison. Different set of rules than Jesus Jail.

[GeeGolly]

Just now, madpsych78 said:

He knows the rules apply to him, but that "third" time being sent away is really his first time in federal prison. Different set of rules than Jesus Jail.

Absolutely! And his time in Jesus Jail wasn't for a crime, it was for an indiscretion.

Criminals are always betting on not getting caught. Recidivism rates vary depending on a lot of factors, but the chances of committing more crimes is pretty high.  

Unfortunately Josh is not all that unusual. He's a criminal who commits crimes.

[Heathen]

It's not a matter of knowing whether the rules apply to him. It's that he never thought he'd get caught. Not even Smuggar would commit a crime or break a prison rule if he knew he'd get caught. Most criminals and rule-breakers have the same thought process, or lack thereof. 

I think Smuggar is likely to reoffend. 

[SMama]

Just now, Heathen said:

I think Smuggar is likely to reoffend. 

When he does and is incarcerated, it may be the best gift for his siblings. Those who seek the spotlight will be asked about him and that is their choice. Those who want anonymity will be able to remain under the radar without FF as a constant reminder and distraction. 

[BetyBee]

Smuggar's sentence getting longer as he re-offends, is a gift to Anna too. I hope one of these days, she gets a clue and moves on with her life. No reason for her to be incarcerated at the warehome.

[SMama]

37 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

No reason for her to be incarcerated at the warehome.

Worse, rumor is she is back at the TTH. If true, it has to dawn on her that dormitory living is it for the next nine years. She’ll be 40-42 and still treated like a child.

[libgirl2]

Radar online is reporting he is in solitary. I don't know how credible they are though. 

https://radaronline.com/p/josh-duggar-solitary-confinement-phone-in-prison/

[lookeyloo]

They did show her in a space behind a curtain when I think Meredith was a baby and daddy was in Jesus Jail.  That is extremely private,doncha think.