Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[hathorlive]

2 minutes ago, cereality said:

And it's total BS that JB and Michelle aren't there today AND Anna leaves whenever CP is shown. WTF morons. Get your heads out of the sand. This isn't - oh he's a godly man who just got curious teehee who hasn't done that, I don't need to see the Playboy to see what he looked at. No morons you NEED to see what he looked at to understand the enormity of this, how gross it is, and how you are choosing to stay with and keep procreating with and ponder whether a guy like that who has done stuff to his sisters + continues to look at little kids could do the same to YOUR kids!? 

Taking bets that they show up tomorrow, since the "nasty bad stuff" is over.  

[all fall down]

I know recording devices aren't allowed so reporters/attendees are taking notes, but are trial transcripts generally released for federal trials. I know we've seen lots of the documents and I seem to recall a transcript of the bail/release hearing?

Just curious because I'm interested in actully eventually reading the testimony of those testifying, not just a summary. 

[Natalie68]

45 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

I was on a drug case jury where we came to a decision at 530, the judge had already promised to do a quick wedding for a couple, and we had to wait for him to get back to the court room.  Then they  spend an hour or so collecting people back to the room. I think it was around 7pm before we got back to the court room.  And we were all about to pass out.  The officers were very nice, pulling out granola bars and cookies for us. They didn't expect a verdict and didn't have dinner for us.

Thanks to all who are providing updates and explanations!  As I have said before, I don't think JB, Meechelle, Josh OR Anna should be allowed around minors.  Not one of them has a spec of sense of right and wrong.  I find them all disgusting.

I was just recently on a jury.  3 week civil trial about acute angle closure glaucoma.  The judge was very strict about breaks, lunch and when we would be dismissed.  Breaks at 10:15am and 3:15pm, lunch from 12-1:30 and we were dismissed everyday at 4:30.  LOVED that schedule!

[cereality]

2 minutes ago, christine falls said:

I know recording devices aren't allowed so reporters/attendees are taking notes, but are trial transcripts generally released for federal trials. I know we've seen lots of the documents and I seem to recall a transcript of the bail/release hearing?

Just curious because I'm interested in actully eventually reading the testimony of those testifying, not just a summary. 

There will be a transcript that'll be on Pacer (paid service for fed court lawyers); often news orgs like CNN buy them and post them.

As for - she can't know what's happening in court or her testimony is thrown out. Come on. I'm a litigator too and she can totally know from Derick whether her parents come to court, where they sit, what the set up of the courtroom is, where Derick will sit, which counsel is at counsel table and which sits in the first row, where Anna sits and whether she stays all day etc. I mean obviously she can't discuss her testimony with others in advance etc. and if it's found that she did that, it would be excluded. I mean she could even read the transcript of today's testimony if she wanted IF her defense counsel allowed it (though IDK that she has the education to be able to read a transcript like that and get it so they may say no bc why risk it). This isn't like her being like oh maybe I'll call Joy and ask - hey do you think I should say x?  

[lascuba]

27 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

That's pretty typical in my experience.  There are all sorts of breaks in the day and it is rare to put in a full day of work like you or I might expect.  I've been involved in trials where the judge also had criminal arraignments, meetings about other cases, various phone calls and assorted other stuff mixed in with the trial.  It wasn't unusual to start at 9 AM (seems pretty rare to start earlier), break at 10:30 or so for an hour for the judge to do arraignments and a bunch of prisoners brought in in chains.  Start again, go for an hour, break for an hour and a half for lunch.  15-30 minutes mid afternoon break and then finish for the day at 4:30.  Meanwhile, the attorneys have important phone calls and need a break or a witness is delayed or things go too fast and the next witness isn't there on time and so the day ends around 3 PM.

I would say at least 50% of the time at trial is wasted, from my experience. I had one trial that lasted 3 days, the jury came back in less than 15 minutes and the whole thing lasted less than 8 hours total.  The other would've taken 3 or 4 days in real time but stretched into 2 weeks.

The closest I got to a trial I was dismissed 2 weeks into jury selection. I couldn't believe how much time was spent on breaks. Morning breaks that were supposed to last 30 minutes lasted over an hour. Lunch hours would last at least an hour and half before we were even allowed back in to the courtroom, let alone actually get started from where we left off.  We would never finish for the day a minute later than 4 pm. I went into jury duty looking forward to being part of the trial process. By the time the prosecutor dismissed me I was considering working up the nerve to stand up and do something outrageous enough to get me tossed out.

[Zella]

I noticed nothing substantive has been added to the Sun live feed since they broke for lunch, and the time limit on that break has long expired. I'm wondering if they got in trouble and were told to shut that shit down. Or if the lunch break stretched really long.

Edited to add: they have recapped Bobye's testimony most recently but in a way that seems like they are only repeating Monday's info and not in a way that suggests this is new news.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Zella

[Ljohnson1987]

Remember this gem? 

 

[emmawoodhouse]

And that movie was about a husband addicted to porn. How ironic.

[libgirl2]

9 minutes ago, lascuba said:

The closest I got to a trial I was dismissed 2 weeks into jury selection. I couldn't believe how much time was spent on breaks. Morning breaks that were supposed to last 30 minutes lasted over an hour. Lunch hours would last at least an hour and half before we were even allowed back in to the courtroom, let alone actually get started from where we left off.  We would never finish for the day a minute later than 4 pm. I went into jury duty looking forward to being part of the trial process. By the time the prosecutor dismissed me I was considering working up the nerve to stand up and do something outrageous enough to get me tossed out.

I had to testify once. It was years ago when I worked at Kmart (look that oldie up). We had a former employee who had come in for her layaway that had been returned for non-payment. She was a frail looking woman with a cane but she nearly took out our two security guys (she did grab one by the balls). She almost hit several customers as well. She turned around and sued and I was a witness. She lost. About a year later one of the jury members saw me at my other job at a doctor's office and said my testimony was really good. When the lawyer asked me how this frail little old lady could hurt anyone, I told him "you didn't see her!!". 

It was kind of fun. Me and another layaway person got to go with the store manager and the other bigwigs. We had breakfast and hung out. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by libgirl2

[ElsieEm]

I have very very little sympathy for Anna in general, but I can't fault her for stepping out when the abuse images were shown. I was on a jury for a rape/murder case, and had to see a lot of things I'll never unsee. If I could have chosen to not view them I would have, but of course that's not the job. 

I don't think seeing them will wake her up re:Josh's true nature anyway, she's in too deep sadly. 

 

[coconspirator]

31 minutes ago, cereality said:

There will be a transcript that'll be on Pacer (paid service for fed court lawyers); often news orgs like CNN buy them and post them.

As for - she can't know what's happening in court or her testimony is thrown out. Come on. I'm a litigator too and she can totally know from Derick whether her parents come to court, where they sit, what the set up of the courtroom is, where Derick will sit, which counsel is at counsel table and which sits in the first row, where Anna sits and whether she stays all day etc. I mean obviously she can't discuss her testimony with others in advance etc. and if it's found that she did that, it would be excluded. I mean she could even read the transcript of today's testimony if she wanted IF her defense counsel allowed it (though IDK that she has the education to be able to read a transcript like that and get it so they may say no bc why risk it). This isn't like her being like oh maybe I'll call Joy and ask - hey do you think I should say x?  

Plus there is nothing being testified to today that is relevant to anything Jill will say.  She won’t be “tainted” if Derick tells her what the FBI did at the car lot because that’s not what she is testifying about as a witness. Now, if Derick is there when Bobbye Holt testifies that would be different-and I would assume it means Jill won’t be called.

[libgirl2]

3 minutes ago, ElsieEm said:

I have very very little sympathy for Anna in general, but I can't fault her for stepping out when the abuse images were shown. I was on a jury for a rape/murder case, and had to see a lot of things I'll never unsee. If I could have chosen to not view them I would have, but of course that's not the job. 

I don't think seeing them will wake her up re:Josh's true nature anyway, she's in too deep sadly. 

 

I agree that it would make no difference.

[GeeGolly]

Austin is at the trial too.

[Zella]

Just now, GeeGolly said:

Austin is at the trial too.

I think I jinxed myself when I commented on their lack of activity. As soon as I posted that, they started to deliver. LOL

Apparently Derick and Anna have been friendly with each other but Austin is not interacting with either of them. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Zella

[Ljohnson1987]

 Will he use the 'We're from Arkansas' bit for why he did this? Gag!

[hathorlive]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

I think I jinxed myself when I commented on their lack of activity. As soon as I posted that, they started to deliver. LOL

Me too.  I really  hope Austin is there to tell Joy what is really happening and what evidence the state has. I can't imagine that one of his victims thinks he is innocent.  I've always hope that Austin would switch over to human mode and knock Josh flat on his butt.

[GeeGolly]

Just now, hathorlive said:

Me too.  I really  hope Austin is there to tell Joy what is really happening and what evidence the state has. I can't imagine that one of his victims thinks he is innocent.  I've always hope that Austin would switch over to human mode and knock Josh flat on his butt.

I really hope Austin just says the images were really bad. Joy doesn't need to know the nitty gritty. She can just trust Austin on this.

[libgirl2]

4 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think I jinxed myself when I commented on their lack of activity. As soon as I posted that, they started to deliver. LOL

Apparently Derick and Anna have been friendly with each other but Austin is not interacting with either of them. 

I don't know what to make of Austin. He doesn't strike me as the friendliest guy to begin with. 

[hathorlive]

6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I really hope Austin just says the images were really bad. Joy doesn't need to know the nitty gritty. She can just trust Austin on this.

Of course not.  I just hope he tells her that the images were young children and their kids are never going to be near Uncle Josh again.  It's important that as many people in the family as possible can understand what was on his computer.  

[Churchhoney]

13 minutes ago, ElsieEm said:

 

I don't think seeing them will wake her up re:Josh's true nature anyway, she's in too deep sadly. 

 

You know, that may well be true. But, given the nature of these particular images, if she weren't changed to some degree by seeing them -- while knowing that they so excite her husband sexually that he risked prison to have them -- I don't believe she'd deserve to be called a human being any more........Either she was born as lacking in empathy and other human capacities as he apparently is, or she just froze those to death with super-Jesusness somewhere along the way. 

Especially because I believe she's just thinking now, "Oh, it's porn, like Playboy, only with younger girls." I don't believe she has any idea at all of what the images are. So if she has any humanity left in her, then the shock and surprise alone should wake her up at least a bit. 

So while I fear you may be right, I sure hope it isn't true that she wouldn't be moved at all. Because she has seven young kids to raise in what will be an increasingly difficult situation. To have those needy kids raised by a person with absolutely zero empathy and zero capacity to register true atrocities is horrifying. What kind of emotional or moral upbringing can she possibly give them if she's that dead and indifferent inside. 

Awful.  

[Zella]

9 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I don't know what to make of Austin. He doesn't strike me as the friendliest guy to begin with. 

Honestly, if he's not feeling very inclined to make nice with Anna right now, I don't blame him. 

[libgirl2]

I wonder if Austin wants to beat the crap our of smuggar. I know I would if that were my wife, not to mention he has little ones. He is also one of the few that isn't sucking the Duggar teat for a living. 

[Churchhoney]

3 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

  It's important that as many people in the family as possible can understand what was on his computer.  

Absolutely crucial. 

Criminal that JB and M don't have the balls to watch something this critical to their really understanding what's gone on with their son and what's at stake for their whole family in this.

They're supposed to be the fabulously wise elders, according to all the gushing Gothard shit. 

Not hardly. 

[Rootbeer]

 

10 minutes ago, Zella said:

Honestly, if he's not feeling very inclined to make nice with Anna right now, I don't blame him. 

I would imagine that seeing those images is a lot to process and perhaps Austin just wasn't in the mood for chatting with Anna or Derick at that point.  Everyone deals with things differently, Austin has known Josh since he was a kid, his wife is one of Josh' victims; I would imaging he might be at a loss for words and not really interested in small talk.

[Zella]

TBH I think it is chickenshit of Jim Bob, Michelle, and Anna to not be present to see what Josh was doing, but it's the only thing they've done that has any internal consistency. If they truly think he's not guilty, then in their minds, it's not about seeing what Josh has done--just seeing what others are trying to essentially frame him with. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Zella

[Ljohnson1987]

I'm sure Austin is only there to support Joy. He can't possibly be supporting Josh, right?

[Zella]

Just now, Rootbeer said:

 

I would imagine that seeing those images is a lot to process and perhaps Austin just wasn't in the mood for chatting with Anna or Derick at that point.  Everyone deals with things differently, Austin has known Josh since he was a kid, his wife is one of Josh' victims; I would imaging he might be at a loss for words and not really interested in small talk.

Yes. He also doesn't particularly strike me as a small talker in general. 

[Rootbeer]

1 minute ago, Ljohnson1987 said:

I'm sure Austin is only there to support Joy. He can't possibly be supporting Josh, right?

There's been no indication that Austin supports Josh in any way.  He hasn't made a statement of any sort, but his support for Joy seems solid from their social media.

[Snow Fairy]

Do you think any of Duggars and in-laws went to read all the reports? Would they be courious or just ignore it all?

[GeeGolly]

2 minutes ago, Ljohnson1987 said:

I'm sure Austin is only there to support Joy. He can't possibly be supporting Josh, right?

This is a hard question to answer. Everyone is assuming Joy hates Josh. In my experience treating adult survivors of child sex abuse this is not always the case. Many don't hate their abusers.

Maybe he's just there to get some facts and isn't there for or against Josh.

[hathorlive]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

This is a hard question to answer. Everyone is assuming Joy hates Josh. In my experience treating adult survivors of child sex abuse this is not always the case. Many don't hate their abusers.

Maybe he's just there to get some facts and isn't there for or against Josh.

That's a good reminder that we shouldn't (I shouldn't) paint everyone with the same brush. We truly don't know what the relationship of these people are. I'm sure its very complex.

[lilwhitelion]

Take with a grain of salt because it's Katie Joy reporting this, but she said Jim Holt will testify that Josh went to him to discuss how to install a Linux partition.

[Iguessnot]

Hah, the agent said Josh asked him whether the IP address was marked and whether it could be narrowed down to a device. So much for the defense implications the Josh was too uneducated and limited to Macs to pull off the hidden partition.

[GeeGolly]

Holy shit ...

 From the Sun

In a third audio clip of the interview with Josh Duggar and Homeland Security investigators, the investigators explained they were able to directly connect to an IP address that had child porn.

Josh then asked whether it was for transmitting or receiving it.

[Minivanessa]

4 minutes ago, lilwhitelion said:

Take with a grain of salt because it's Katie Joy reporting this, but she said Jim Holt will testify that Josh went to him to discuss how to install a Linux partition.

I think she's more full of crap than an abandoned portapotty.

[Ijustwantsomechips]

4 minutes ago, lilwhitelion said:

Take with a grain of salt because it's Katie Joy reporting this, but she said Jim Holt will testify that Josh went to him to discuss how to install a Linux partition.

Duh dun duuuuuuhnnnn!

[Zella]

Yeah Josh's initial questions don't sound like "Poor little dumb me and my GED can't handle all this computer machine talk."

I'm also dying at the HS guy noting that Tor wouldn't be super useful for the car business because the dark web isn't a great place to sell cars.

 

[hathorlive]

5 minutes ago, lilwhitelion said:

Take with a grain of salt because it's Katie Joy reporting this, but she said Jim Holt will testify that Josh went to him to discuss how to install a Linux partition.

Really? So that just shows that A) Josh knows what Linux is B) he felt the need to use that Linuxy thing when he's a "mac" user and C) that he had some need to install this partition for some reason.... How does this help the defense? If the prosecution doesn't show a YouTube list of videos on "how to install a Linux partition" I'm going to scream.

[quarks]

1 hour ago, christine falls said:

I know recording devices aren't allowed so reporters/attendees are taking notes, but are trial transcripts generally released for federal trials. I know we've seen lots of the documents and I seem to recall a transcript of the bail/release hearing?

Just curious because I'm interested in actully eventually reading the testimony of those testifying, not just a summary. 

The transcripts will eventually get released, though there may be a fee for reading them. Right now some of the documents associated with this trial are free to read, some aren't. 

Austin has more reason than most people to know just how selectively video and audio can be edited. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that he's just there to hear the trial for himself, and not through the filter of the news media.

[GeeGolly]

Thankfully Josh doesn't know how to feign innocence. He's his own worst enemy.

[Churchhoney]

23 minutes ago, Zella said:

 in their minds, it's not about seeing what Josh has done--just seeing what others are trying to essentially frame him with. 

If this were my kid, though, and I truly believed that that was a true or a strong possibility, I'd want to see the stuff in that case, too. I'd want to know, viscerally, how terrible a thing it was that my child might be falsely convicted of. I'd want to know exactly how big an outrage it was.....

Either way, I  think it's chickenshit, ... Either way, there's something very bad here that, one way or another, closely affects their son and the rest of their family.     Yet these people -- who are planning to join Jesus soon to literally battle all the demons of hell to win the universe for their Heavenly Father -- are afraid to even look at this one small stack of serious human evils. Even though these evils are a very large thing in the life of their favorite son.  

All I can conclude is that Jesus is assembling a Chickenshit Coward Army  ☹️

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Churchhoney

[quarks]

(catches up on the Sun's reporting)

Is it just me, or does Josh's claim that he needed "encrypted" stuff to sell used cars make the car lot seem even shadier?

 

[hathorlive]

37 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Holy shit ...

 From the Sun

In a third audio clip of the interview with Josh Duggar and Homeland Security investigators, the investigators explained they were able to directly connect to an IP address that had child porn.

Josh then asked whether it was for transmitting or receiving it.

Just when you think he can't get any more stupid, he exceeds our expectations.  He doesn't sound like a guy who is well versed in illegal stuff. Right??

Edited December 1, 2021 by hathorlive

[Iguessnot]

Yeh, he even said I'm not denying quilt, I'm just not going to incriminate myself.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Iguessnot

[irisheyes]

1 minute ago, hathorlive said:

Just when you think he can't get any more stupid, he exceeds our expectations.  He doesn't sound like a guy whose well versed in illegal stuff.

Well, the jails are filled with people who thought they were smarter than the cops. Josh will fit right in. 

[Minivanessa]

2 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

Really? So that just shows that A) Josh knows what Linux is B) he felt the need to use that Linuxy thing when he's a "mac" user and C) that he had some need to install this partition for some reason.... How does this help the defense? If the prosecution doesn't show a YouTube list of videos on "how to install a Linux partition" I'm going to scream.

AFAIK he wasn't on the prosecution's witness list, but Justin, the guy who did the "I Pray You Put This Journal Away" podcasts, knew Josh when they were both kids. He's younger than Josh; his family started attending JB's home church when they were in the little house by that church. He said in one podcast that the other kids had a bunch of cobbled-together PCs that were assembled from a bunch of old computers a local college was throwing out and JB hauled home. But JOSH had his own brand new iMac, and Justin talks about that and how the guys gathered round while Josh showed off his nice iMac. He also mentioned that Josh AS A TEENAGER talked about LInux partitions.

[lilwhitelion]

There was something Bobye Holt said Monday that I find so unbelievable.  I think it was the second visit she and Jim made to the Duggars.  Of course, they met with Michelle, Jim Bob and Josh in the master bedroom (who wouldn't?) and before Josh told them about what he did to Joy, Jim Holt had fallen asleep.  What the hell!  Maybe you should meet somewhere you can't lie your head down!

[Churchhoney]

4 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

Just when you think he can't get any more stupid, he exceeds our expectations.  He doesn't sound like a guy whose well versed in illegal stuff.

As usual, he's a really weird combination of knowledgeable and a complete ignoramus/idiot at the exact same time. 

[MsJamieDornan]

According to the Sun  

"Anna Duggar returned to the courtroom after lunch, according to the Sun reporter who attended the trial.

She and Derick Dillard sat together and seemed friendly, according to the reporter."

 

Austin Forsyth, the husband of Joy-Anna Duggar, was in the courtroom for the trial on Wednesday.

He sat in the last row and ignored Derick Dillard and Anna Duggar, who were also present, according to a Sun reporter who was at the trial today.

[quarks]

Sorry, I know this isn't the main point, but I'm just going to have to stay flabbergasted here.

What sort of person supposedly selling used cars tells federal agents that he needs encrypted material to sell the cars?

Like, I get that that agents were there investigating CSA material, and I get that encryption software is standard for online payments, but why the hell would you tell a federal agent that you had to use the dark web/Tor/encrypted material for your used cars? You do realize that sure makes it sound like that on top of everything else, you also might have been selling stolen cars or car parts?