Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[CandyCaneTree]

I want JillR to make the announcement about the baby and try to make it all about herself. 

[Guest]

Please take the Jill Rodriguez talk to the Sweet Fellowship thread. Unless she actually does post about Josh and Anna (or they about her), it doesn’t belong in this thread. 
 

Thanks.

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

This got me thinking. If there are people that say that, they were just looking and no one was harmed, how do they justify that the people making those pictures and videos are really harming children?

How can you say that you just watched the abuse happen,but it is ok because you were just watching and not doing anything?

Because you never actually let a rational thought enter your mind? After all, trusting your own brain instead of trusting what Idiots Jim Bob and Meeechelle Duggar told you to memorize is to rebel against God, who gave us brains only to trick us into following "reason" [Satan Satan Satan Alert!] instead of The Correct Jesus. 

These are not people who think. 

[Tdoc72]

4 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I know they consider all sins equal (which is stupid), but there is no difference between adult and child SEXUAL ABUSE in their world? That's sick.

And they think I deserve to go to Hell b/c I am pro-choice even though I’ve never had an abortion.  

[Temperance]

M7 is supposedly here. A recent statement made by the Duggars said they have 22 grandchildren. 

John David + Abbie 1

Jill  + Derick 2

Jessa + Ben 4

Jinger + Jeremy 2

Joe  + Kendra 3

Josiah + Lauren 1

Joy + Austin 2

This adds up to 15 leaving 7 of the kids belonging to Josh and Anna. I can understand why they didn't announce the birth of M7 at this time. My guess is her name is Michelle.

[CandyCaneTree]

I think that the 7th kid will be announced on the 1st day of the trial. 

[awaken]

Where was the recent statement they made about the grandchildren?

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, awaken said:

Where was the recent statement they made about the grandchildren?

I don't think there was a statement. I think someone reported a couple days ago that on the Duggar Fam Official the number of grandbabies had recently been changed to 22 in the copy there. 

[Churchhoney]

35 minutes ago, SMama said:

 

There've been a couple of number questions, recently. JB mentioned that they've raised 20 children, and some people didn't know what that meant. He was counting Tyler, but if somebody didn't remember about Tyler it seemed odd. 

Then the grandbaby-count change was separate, and on Duggar Official. It had been 21 but then went up to 22 -- but without any explanation or discussion. That would be little Mayhem, or Misery, or Miasma, or Melancholia. So it's on Dugg Off that the she's silently mentioned. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Churchhoney

[SMama]

They keep official counts of their grandkids? 🤦🏽‍♀️

[Jeanne222]

17 hours ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

Oh! Sorry…I didn’t know there was a Jill Rodrigues. No wonder “JillRod” threw me for a loop. Thanks for the clarification. Carry on!

I'd like the Jill Rodriguez group to have their own spot!  I get so confused with them punched with Duggers and Bates!

[Churchhoney]

59 minutes ago, SMama said:

They keep official counts of their grandkids? 🤦🏽‍♀️

Well, that's one of the facts they state about themselves. .... And to them it's clearly one of the most important facts in the world!      It's the fact that's raising them higher and higher on the golden thrones of heaven because they're pumping more and more soldiers for the correct Jesus. I think we know that's the most important thing in the world to them. Long ago they pinned their eternal worth on how many little JB-and-M DNA morsels will be running around the planet 1, 2, 3, 4, and generations ahead. (And Josh is the biggest contributor, by far, so I would guess that counts for something.) 

We know how much they love the book of Genesis .... And I'm sure they see themselves in what God said to Abraham  -- "And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;"

I think they take this one as applying to them, too -- but in today's version it's God eventually giving all of the United States to their offspring in recognition of the Duggs' service to God by building his people -- "Then God appeared to Abraham and said, 'I will give this land to your offspring.'"

I think we tend to overlook the way they see themselves in the Bible and in religious prophecies. But when they're talking about numbers of babies and grandbabies, I think they're talking about exactly this. ... 

They don't say it openly because they know that the heathens they're gunning for would be alarmed and try harder to stop them-- but to me the numbers they use are meant to alert others with the same belief that they're building God's kingdom in this country in a serious way and they're proud of it in ways it's hard to fathom if you haven't bought into that kind of a mythology. 

This is one of the reasons these people should never ever ever ever ever ever ever have been given an "entertaining" tv show. (aside from the fact that nobody should be allowed to pimp their minor children out to tv because it's by definition nonconsensual). Their aims are serious and, in my opinion, dangerous. And their "entertaining" show has won people to their cause, made them into heroes to many, while other people who aren't in on the language see them as just harmless fun and "snark." 

Documentaries are one thing. "Reality tv" where people with dangerous delusions are portrayed as cute, funny and harmless is something else again, in my opinion. 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

29 Days and Counting.

 

[iwantcookies]

Maderall or Mashton was born on a birthing toilet... Josh was chewing on a sandwich and did not even bother to say hiii.

 

Anna is now in her warehouse planning her daily trips to visit Joshua at the Rebers. 

[quarks]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

They keep official counts of their grandkids? 🤦🏽‍♀️

Answering in the JB and Michelle thread.

[Rootbeer]

54 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

Maderall or Mashton was born on a birthing toilet... Josh was chewing on a sandwich and did not even bother to say hiii.

 

Anna is now in her warehouse planning her daily trips to visit Joshua at the Rebers. 

And Joshua is bummed because she had a girl and the rule is no sandwich making for 80 days.  He will be wearing prison garb long before then.

[Churchhoney]

30 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

And Joshua is bummed because she had a girl and the rule is no sandwich making for 80 days.  He will be wearing prison garb long before then.

Maybe there's a special clause with a loophole for men on the verge of martyrdom. 

[BigBingerBro]

7 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

Maderall or Mashton was born on a birthing toilet... Josh was chewing on a sandwich and did not even bother to say hiii.

I immediately envisioned Ms Reber sideyeing him while he's chewing away

[GeeGolly]

When Anna "announced" Meredith's birth after Scandal #2, she casually posted a picture of Facetiming with Jill during the birth, three weeks after the fact.

I don't think there's any Duggar willing to take one for the team this time around. No congratulatory posts and no 'candid' "baby fix" pics.

[Nysha]

9 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I'd like the Jill Rodriguez group to have their own spot!  I get so confused with them punched with Duggers and Bates!

The Rodriguez family has never had a TV and weren't regulars on the Duggar show so they probably won't ever get their own thread. I'm not actually sure they were ever on, but they were around for Jill & Jessa's wedding.

[ginger90]

 

A refresher:

[GeeGolly]

5 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

 

A refresher:

And then, IIRC, Ashley Madison came out a couple of months after these statements.

[SMama]

Not a word of those statements were written by them. As a young teen 🙄.  IIRC JB took Volderjosh to confess (to another pedophile) after the statue of limitations had run out. Also, his sisters had no choice but to forgive him. Fuck you Duggars, sanctimonious trash.

Edited November 3, 2021 by SMama

[merylinkid]

Translation:   It's all good because we all came closer to God due to our son being a pedophile.

[skatelady]

"I want to say thank you to those who took time over a decade ago to help Josh in a time of crisis. Your investment changed his life from going down the wrong path to doing what is right. If it weren't for your help, I would not be here as his wife - celebrating 6 1/2 years of marriage to a man who knows how to be a gentleman and treat a girl right. Thank you to all of you who tirelessly work with children in crisis, you are changing lives and I am forever grateful to all of you."

Well, THAT didn't age well. 

[MargeGunderson]

1 minute ago, skatelady said:

"I want to say thank you to those who took time over a decade ago to help Josh in a time of crisis. Your investment changed his life from going down the wrong path to doing what is right. If it weren't for your help, I would not be here as his wife - celebrating 6 1/2 years of marriage to a man who knows how to be a gentleman and treat a girl right. Thank you to all of you who tirelessly work with children in crisis, you are changing lives and I am forever grateful to all of you."

Well, THAT didn't age well. 

Yeah, I wonder what excuse they will use for Josh this time. They can’t use he was young or Satan’s fortress, so what will it be?

[Westiepeach]

56 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

Yeah, I wonder what excuse they will use for Josh this time. They can’t use he was young or Satan’s fortress, so what will it be?

It’s ALWAYS Satan’s fault, although even Satan doesn’t want to take responsibility for this latest sh!tstorm. 

[SMama]

1 hour ago, skatelady said:

"Thank you to all of you who tirelessly work with children in crisis, you are changing lives and I am forever grateful to all of you."

 

I’m sorry to be heartless but Volderjosh wasn’t a child in crisis, his victims were. Nah, I’m not sorry.

[BigBingerBro]

COUNTING ON EVIDENCE Josh Duggar faces new blow as government demands to keep his desktop computer in child pornography case before trial

[quarks]

Motions in limine were due today. Reddit has the links. 

From the government:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xmlicy3nxwu4nsf/GOVERNMENT’S MOTION IN LIMINE CONCERNING TRADEMARK INSCRIPTIONS.pdf?dl=0

Prosecutors want to admit the "made in China" images on the outside of Josh's computer as evidence.

Not sure why this matters, but, ok, I guess? 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/060y4zx26csmp8r/GOVERNMENT’S MOTION IN LIMINE TO ADMIT PRIOR STATEMENTS MADE BY DEFENDANT.pdf?dl=0

This one I do get. Prosecutors want to admit Josh's 2015 statements, and specifically Josh's confession that he had an addiction to internet porn, as evidence.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ms63wx0k1o8j6d6/GOVERNMENT’S MOTION IN LIMINE TO EXCLUDE THIRD PARTY GUILT EVIDENCE.pdf?dl=0

Prosecutors want to throw out the testimony of Witnesses 1, 2, and 3 and any attempts by the defense to claim that any of these three people could have downloaded the CSA. As per prosecutors, during the time of the alleged crime, Witness 1 was at a Walmart (I'm assuming they can prove this with receipts/Walmart security footage); Witness 2 was in jail; and Witness 3 hadn't started working at the car lot and didn't have access to the computer/passwords. 

Also, turns out that two of Josh's attorneys actually represented Witness 2 (Joshua Williams) for the crime he was in jail for AND, after the raid on the car lot, Josh Duggar helped Witness 3 get a job at another Duggar car lot. 

Based on all this, the government says that the defense shouldn't be using any of these witnesses to demonstrate that other people could have downloaded the CSA. 

And:

"The Government is likewise aware that the defendant has made statements to potential witnesses that his current legal situation arose because he placed too much trust in felons and ex-convicts."

Moving on:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nqmfmw2htdwvo84/GOVERNMENT’S NOTICE PURSUANT TO FEDERAL RULE OF EVIDENCE 414 AND MOTION IN LIMINE TO ADMIT EVIDEN.pdf?dl=0

The government wants to tell the jury that Josh molested his sisters.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by quarks

[jcbrown]

2 hours ago, quarks said:

This one I do get. Prosecutes want to admit Josh's 2015 statements, and specifically Josh's confession that he had an addiction to internet porn, as evidence.

Prosecutors want to throw out the testimony of Witnesses 1, 2, and 3 and any attempts by the defense to claim that any of these three people could have downloaded the CSA. As per prosecutors, during the time of the alleged crime, Witness 1 was at a Walmart (I'm assuming they can prove this with receipts/Walmart security footage); Witness 2 was in jail; and Witness 3 hadn't started working at the car lot and didn't have access to the computer/passwords. 

Also, turns out that two of Josh's attorneys actually represented Witness 2 (Joshua Williams) for the crime he was in jail for AND, after the raid on the car lot, Josh Duggar helped Witness 3 get a job at another Duggar car lot. 

Based on all this, the government says that the defense shouldn't be using any of these witnesses to demonstrate that other people could have downloaded the CSA. 

The government wants to tell the jury that Josh molested his sisters.

These don't bode well for Smuggar, surely? When does the court decide whether to admit these items, does anyone know?

[quarks]

3 minutes ago, jcbrown said:

These don't bode well for Smuggar, surely? When does the court decide whether to admit these items, does anyone know?

Apparently the defense has until November 10th to respond, and then the court will make a decision.

[emmawoodhouse]

Can the court wait until the pre-trial on the 18th to rule, or will it be before then?

[quarks]

4 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Can the court wait until the pre-trial on the 18th to rule, or will it be before then?

I don't know.

[GeeGolly]

Whatever the ruling is, this is the kind of info the Duggars want out there. This will be their excuse if Josh is found guilty. Josh, doing his Godly duty by offering ex-cons work, got thrown under the bus.

Also I assume all of these motions give hope to using them on appeal if they're denied.

[quarks]

6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Whatever the ruling is, this is the kind of info the Duggars want out there. This will be their excuse if Josh is found guilty. Josh, doing his Godly duty by offering ex-cons work, got thrown under the bus.

Also I assume all of these motions give hope to using them on appeal if they're denied.

Well, for me, at least, these motions mostly serve as a reminder that this is not the first time Josh has faced similar allegations.

[hathorlive]

4 hours ago, BigBingerBro said:

COUNTING ON EVIDENCE Josh Duggar faces new blow as government demands to keep his desktop computer in child pornography case before trial

This is not news.  We never EVER return evidence that contains CP.  If a judge demands we return it, the computer or phone is wiped before being returned.  LE always keeps the evidence until the case is tried, any appeal is resolved and the judge says the evidence can be returned/wiped or destroyed. 

[hathorlive]

31 minutes ago, quarks said:

Well, for me, at least, these motions mostly serve as a reminder that this is not the first time Josh has faced similar allegations.

I've always said that if the court allowed the jury to consider Josh molested his sisters, Josh was screwed.  Josh is officially screwed.  I'm proud that the prosecutors went there.  THIS is why you take the plea deal.  Smuggar is so screwed.

[Quilt Fairy]

It's going to be interesting to see how the government proves Josh's molestation of his sisters, presuming it's allowed in.  Are they going to subpoena Jim Bob, Michelle, Jill, Jessa, the senior members of the congregation?  

I hope there's some way we get to hear the testimony from this trial. 

[quarks]

The defense also has in limine motions, also up on Reddit.  

The link Reddit has to the first one goes to the wrong motion, which apparently was about treating any evidence from the car lot records as corporate records, not Josh Duggar records.

With the others:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7g88t9hn1qcuc8g/DEFENDANT’S MOTION IN LIMINE TO EXCLUDE IMPROPER OPINION TESTIMONY.pdf?dl=0

This one is basically asking the court to say that witnesses can't give their opinions about the CSA - specifically, whether or not any of it is the "worst ever."

https://www.dropbox.com/s/avoztgz0v9vv8ep/DEFENDANT’S MOTION IN LIMINE TO EXCLUDE EVIDENCE OF ALLEGATIONS CONCERNING ADULTERY OR A PRIOR SO-CALLED “ADDICTION” TO ADULT PORNOGRAPHY.pdf?dl=0

This is the defense arguing that the prosecution shouldn't be allowed to bring up the 2015 Ashley Madison stuff, saying that it's irrelevant. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cnyh9n8rvyc0iyw/DEFENDANT’S MOTION IN LIMINE TO EXCLUDE EVIDENCE OF JUVENILE ALLEGATIONS.pdf?dl=0

And this is the defense arguing that reports of Josh molesting his younger sisters shouldn't be mentioned in this trial, because: a) the only reason anyone knows anything about this is because this was illegally leaked to a tabloid. (To be fair, Josh's sisters are making the same argument in a separate lawsuit.), b) Josh was never charged with a crime (true); c) that was all back when he was a teenager and he is now in his 30s (also true); and d) he's currently being accused of a computer crime, and he didn't molest his sisters with a computer, which....ok, I guess that's true. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d2sbvw6vhnej4au/DEFENDANT’S MOTION IN LIMINE TO SEQUESTER WITNESSES PURSUANT TO FEDERAL RULE OF EVIDENCE 615.pdf?dl=0

This seems like a pretty standard request, arguing that witnesses shouldn't be allowed to listen to the court proceedings or talk to each other about the trial during the trial, and asking that witnesses be kept in separate rooms.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9iuzpkdf6dh1ars/DEFENDANT’S MOTION IN LIMINE TO EXCLUDE ANY REFERENCE TO DEFENDANT’S STATED DECISION DECLINING TO ANSWER CERTAIN QUESTIONS POSED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT.pdf?dl=0

This is the defense still trying to get at least some of Josh's very damning initial statements to law enforcement tossed out.

[quarks]

25 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

It's going to be interesting to see how the government proves Josh's molestation of his sisters, presuming it's allowed in.  Are they going to subpoena Jim Bob, Michelle, Jill, Jessa, the senior members of the congregation?  

I hope there's some way we get to hear the testimony from this trial. 

Since this doesn't involve any national security issues, the full court transcripts should be released at some point. And I expect that at least a couple of media outlets will send a reporter or two to cover the trial in person.

[Zella]

8 hours ago, quarks said:

Prosecutors want to throw out the testimony of Witnesses 1, 2, and 3 and any attempts by the defense to claim that any of these three people could have downloaded the CSA. As per prosecutors, during the time of the alleged crime, Witness 1 was at a Walmart (I'm assuming they can prove this with receipts/Walmart security footage); Witness 2 was in jail; and Witness 3 hadn't started working at the car lot and didn't have access to the computer/passwords. 

Also, turns out that two of Josh's attorneys actually represented Witness 2 (Joshua Williams) for the crime he was in jail for AND, after the raid on the car lot, Josh Duggar helped Witness 3 get a job at another Duggar car lot. 

Based on all this, the government says that the defense shouldn't be using any of these witnesses to demonstrate that other people could have downloaded the CSA. 

It took me a minute to put two and two together, but his lawyers chose to blame a guy who was not only in jail at the time of Josh's crime but also who they were representing at the time he was in jail. So, yeah, if anyone should have known what his alibi was it would have been the lawyers who have them both in common. I'm assuming that is Story and company and not the fancy St. Louis guy. 

[quarks]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

It took me a minute to put two and two together, but his lawyers chose to blame a guy who was not only in jail at the time of Josh's crime but also who they were representing at the time he was in jail. So, yeah, if anyone should have known what his alibi was it would have been the lawyers who have them both in common. I'm assuming that is Story and company and not the fancy St. Louis guy. 

Yeah. I don't know which attorney was responsible for this, but it's not a great look, even leaving aside the questionable ethics of blaming a former client for the alleged crimes of your current client.

[Zella]

Just now, quarks said:

even leaving aside the questionable ethics of blaming a former client for the alleged crimes of your current client.

LOL yeah nothing about it makes me want to rush out and hire them.

[merylinkid]

5 hours ago, quarks said:

Yeah. I don't know which attorney was responsible for this, but it's not a great look, even leaving aside the questionable ethics of blaming a former client for the alleged crimes of your current client.

It's not even in the realm of questionable -- it's a flat out NO.   You still owe a duty to your former client.   You can't throw them under a bus to save a new client.  Even if you have evidence that the former client really is the guilty party, you can't do it.   In this case, they KNOW the guy they are throwing under the bus could NOT have done it.     Just ugh.   I hope they are making enough money from Josh to support themselves the rest of their lives because they are risking their licenses here.

Not sure how the Ashley Madison scandal is really relevant.   It's not a crime (well okay in maryland, adultery is still a crime but only so it can be a grounds for a divorce without waiting an entire freaking year and its only a misdemeanor with a $10 fine) to cheat on  your wife.   Also presumably he was trying to hook up with adults, so it would have no bearing on whether he likes to see kids abused.   

As for the prosecution's experts not being able to give opinions on the child abuse such as "the worst ever" that's fine.   I'm sure the jury doesn't care whether its the worst out there or not.   They will see it and decide it is terrible all on their own.

[SMama]

IIRC Josh admitted to (or blamed) a porn addiction in his three times edited AM statement. 

[GeeGolly]

21 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

It's not even in the realm of questionable -- it's a flat out NO.   You still owe a duty to your former client.   You can't throw them under a bus to save a new client.  Even if you have evidence that the former client really is the guilty party, you can't do it.   In this case, they KNOW the guy they are throwing under the bus could NOT have done it.     Just ugh.   I hope they are making enough money from Josh to support themselves the rest of their lives because they are risking their licenses here.

Not sure how the Ashley Madison scandal is really relevant.   It's not a crime (well okay in maryland, adultery is still a crime but only so it can be a grounds for a divorce without waiting an entire freaking year and its only a misdemeanor with a $10 fine) to cheat on  your wife.   Also presumably he was trying to hook up with adults, so it would have no bearing on whether he likes to see kids abused.   

As for the prosecution's experts not being able to give opinions on the child abuse such as "the worst ever" that's fine.   I'm sure the jury doesn't care whether its the worst out there or not.   They will see it and decide it is terrible all on their own.

I think they might want to include the statement Josh made during the Ashley Madison scandal.

[GeeGolly]

10 hours ago, quarks said:

Well, for me, at least, these motions mostly serve as a reminder that this is not the first time Josh has faced similar allegations.

The Duggars will ignore those facts.  They'll focus on the fact that there are 3 witnesses who could be the guilty ones.

 

[hathorlive]

9 hours ago, quarks said:

The defense also has in limine motions, also up on Reddit.  

The link Reddit has to the first one goes to the wrong motion, which apparently was about treating any evidence from the car lot records as corporate records, not Josh Duggar records.

With the others:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7g88t9hn1qcuc8g/DEFENDANT’S MOTION IN LIMINE TO EXCLUDE IMPROPER OPINION TESTIMONY.pdf?dl=0

This one is basically asking the court to say that witnesses can't give their opinions about the CSA - specifically, whether or not any of it is the "worst ever."

https://www.dropbox.com/s/avoztgz0v9vv8ep/DEFENDANT’S MOTION IN LIMINE TO EXCLUDE EVIDENCE OF ALLEGATIONS CONCERNING ADULTERY OR A PRIOR SO-CALLED “ADDICTION” TO ADULT PORNOGRAPHY.pdf?dl=0

This is the defense arguing that the prosecution shouldn't be allowed to bring up the 2015 Ashley Madison stuff, saying that it's irrelevant. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cnyh9n8rvyc0iyw/DEFENDANT’S MOTION IN LIMINE TO EXCLUDE EVIDENCE OF JUVENILE ALLEGATIONS.pdf?dl=0

And this is the defense arguing that reports of Josh molesting his younger sisters shouldn't be mentioned in this trial, because: a) the only reason anyone knows anything about this is because this was illegally leaked to a tabloid. (To be fair, Josh's sisters are making the same argument in a separate lawsuit.), b) Josh was never charged with a crime (true); c) that was all back when he was a teenager and he is now in his 30s (also true); and d) he's currently being accused of a computer crime, and he didn't molest his sisters with a computer, which....ok, I guess that's true. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d2sbvw6vhnej4au/DEFENDANT’S MOTION IN LIMINE TO SEQUESTER WITNESSES PURSUANT TO FEDERAL RULE OF EVIDENCE 615.pdf?dl=0

This seems like a pretty standard request, arguing that witnesses shouldn't be allowed to listen to the court proceedings or talk to each other about the trial during the trial, and asking that witnesses be kept in separate rooms.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9iuzpkdf6dh1ars/DEFENDANT’S MOTION IN LIMINE TO EXCLUDE ANY REFERENCE TO DEFENDANT’S STATED DECISION DECLINING TO ANSWER CERTAIN QUESTIONS POSED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT.pdf?dl=0

This is the defense still trying to get at least some of Josh's very damning initial statements to law enforcement tossed out.

So, if the forensic people are noted as expert witnesses, then they can in fact, give their opinions.  That's the difference between an "expert" witness and a "fact" witness.  The fact witness can say that they found 5 videos and 300 photos of images.  And that they submitted the images to NCMEC, who determined they were CP.  An expert witness can say they found 5 videos and 300 images of CP (based on their experience and training) and that the video is one of the worst that the witness has ever viewed.  It will be hard to get around the this IF the witnesses are determined to be experts.

Ashley Madison is meh for me.  It shows he likes porn, has no moral boundaries, doesn't really live his "Christian" faith, and that he lies.  But it's not a big issue for the case.

As for the sister's abuse, It's only public knowledge because the Duggar's went on TV for fame and glory.  And it's the truth.  And Josh admitted to molesting them.  And it was sexual abuse and it goes directly to the crime at hand, sexualization of minors.  The reason CP is punished is because viewing it makes you more likely to go out and hurt a real child.  Josh STARTED by hurting real children.  He escalated BEFORE he possessed child porn, which means he's even more of a danger to his own kids and any children around him. Even if it's not allowed in, the Jury members will know what he did.  There's too much information out there about what Josh did and one of 12 jury members is bound to either know or have a family member who knows.

I think the business' records can only be considered corporate if Josh filed incorporation papers.  And knowing how the Duggars do things, I'm pretty sure he didn't do it. That still doesn't negate the images found on the computer.  We seize people work machines every week.

[ginger90]

4 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

The reason CP is punished is because viewing it makes you more likely to go out and hurt a real child.  

I would hope it’s because children are being exploited and harmed, physically and mentally.