Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Almost 3000]

What about husbands adore their wives

Well there is the admonishment that husbands should treat their wives as Christ treated his church (or something like that) so that does challenge the husband to a high standard of behavior toward their spouse.

[BitterApple]

As an experiment I tried doing the googly-eyed zombie look with Mr. Bitter Apple while we were watching football today. His response was "what the hell are you doing?" I guess I need to work on my technique...

[Barb23]

As an experiment I tried doing the googly-eyed zombie look with Mr. Bitter Apple while we were watching football today. His response was "what the hell are you doing?" I guess I need to work on my technique...

That cracked me up. My husband would have been the same way. Maybe we need to go to those classes Absolom referenced.

.

[mbutterfly]

Probably with a little wine to share Absolom's class would be quite entertaining. 

[3girlsforus]

As an experiment I tried doing the googly-eyed zombie look with Mr. Bitter Apple while we were watching football today. His response was "what the hell are you doing?" I guess I need to work on my technique...

OMG!!! I tried this experiment yesterday too!! My husband said the exact same thing!!

[GEML]

Technically, the husband loving the wife as Christ loves the church means Josh's standard to loving and caring for Anna should be even HIGHER than hers for him. Interesting, isn't if, how in Gothard world that doesn't actually happen? It's the young women who are taught adoration, but men are taught authority. There's a lot more about sacrifice in Jesus' love to His church than there is about authority - at least in the Bible that I've read.

Edited December 29, 2014 by GEML

[bigskygirl]

The date picture from Josh's instagram page.    http://instagram.com/p/xKyhVxuWKH/?modal=true

 

Josh having his pregnant wife in the back. Michelle was probably hoping to sit next to Ben since she has the secret hots for him.  Heading back to my prayer closet.

[Almost 3000]

Technically, the husband loving the wife as Christ loves the church means Josh's standard to loving and caring for Anna should be even HIGHER than hers for him. Interesting, isn't if, how in Gothard world that doesn't actually happen? It's the young women who are taught adoration, but men are taught authority. There's a lot more about sacrifice in Jesus' love to His church than there is about authority - at least in the Bible that I've read.

Thanks for clarifying my poor attempt to suggest how Gothard men should treat their wives. That's why I love reading here. I learn new things and in this case was reminded of what I've forgotten of my parochial school education!

[BitterApple]

I understand that pregnancy isn't a disease, but come on Duggars, that was pretty crappy to make Jill and Anna climb into the back row of a Suburban. It's a good thing Joshie and Boob weren't on the Titanic. They would have been pushing all those poor women and children aside to score a seat on the lifeboats. SMH.

[Mrsjumbo]

Does anyone else notice that when Anna and Josh are being filmed together, she looks at him as though the sun rises and sets with him. Absolute adoration is in her eyes. That's pretty impressive (or is it?) after 3 kids and 6 years of marriage.

Sometimes when she looks at him like that, she looks certifiably insane. Her eyes get all buggy & weird.

[MarysWetBar]

I understand that pregnancy isn't a disease, but come on Duggars, that was pretty crappy to make Jill and Anna climb into the back row of a Suburban. It's a good thing Joshie and Boob weren't on the Titanic. They would have been pushing all those poor women and children aside to score a seat on the lifeboats. SMH.

Those two fat lazy inconsiderate f***s could never get into the back of anything. Edited December 30, 2014 by MarysWetBar

[Barb23]

Make room for me then cus i couldn't take my eyes off Smuggars moobs in that episode he ran the marathon in. The swaying, the jiggling, the bouncing... I was transfixed.

There's also his Baby bump we noticed in the Christmas picture/video when the whole family was singing.

[floridamom]

You noticed Josh's baby bump? Remember, "WE'RE expecting". Although his bump is from fast food restaurants and bad food in general.

A thought here on Josh's 1998 motor home purchase. Is anyone of the impression that the purchase of that vehicle was aided by the FRC? After all, the guy travels for work to various speaking engagements and he simply can't leave Anna ALONE with 3.3 kids to take care of? He also can't leave her alone without an accountability partner to watch over her for maybe she will succumb to a music store in the mall and listen to something other than hymns or classical music, maybe turn a TV on and actually WATCH a non religious program. She also is a totally (sorry for that word) inexperienced child-like adult who may be incapable of spending some nights alone at home with the kids..can't always count on one of the J'slaves to jet over there and help baby sit HER.

[Micks Picks]

I've never heard of any business taking that into consideration.  I wouldn't.  Marry an adult.  If you married an immature kid to have more kids with, tough luck.

[GEML]

I honestly can't imagine a DC lobbying arm OFA think tank doing that.

[cmr2014]

I can't imagine any business doing that. If there was some particular business reason to own a motor home (like a political campaign), I think the business would buy one that wasn't 16 years old and on it's last legs.

 

I think that the Duggars have a very unusual set of priorities when it comes to money-- JB spent $250,000 on a political campaign while his family was stuffed into a tiny house and eating groceries bought by church members. In all fairness, lots of people -- even those who are barely scraping by -- spend lots of money on things that seem frivolous (to me). My guess is that someone in the cult wanted to unload that motor home and offered JB a good deal. He either gave it to Josh or convinced Josh that it would be a good investment (for all those trips back to Arkansas).

[Darknight]

I can't imagine any business doing that. If there was some particular business reason to own a motor home (like a political campaign), I think the business would buy one that wasn't 16 years old and on it's last legs.

I think that the Duggars have a very unusual set of priorities when it comes to money-- JB spent $250,000 on a political campaign while his family was stuffed into a tiny house and eating groceries bought by church members. In all fairness, lots of people -- even those who are barely scraping by -- spend lots of money on things that seem frivolous (to me). My guess is that someone in the cult wanted to unload that motor home and offered JB a good deal. He either gave it to Josh or convinced Josh that it would be a good investment (for all those trips back to Arkansas).

That food could've gone to another family in need. Selfish parents

[NausetGirl]

That food could've gone to another family in need. Selfish parents

 

Selfish - and unbelievably lazy.

[Fuzzysox]

When is M#4 due?

[Ljohnson1987]

M4 is due in June. 

[floridamom]

Re: Josh wanting HIS kids to at least attend college that was posted on another thread, here's my response to that.

I think Josh will have some opposition from Anna on that one. She seems to be stuck on the "old ways" and doesn't want to vary from Michelle at all in those things. She might have better fashion sense with Mac than Meechelle does with her girls, but I think that's the only difference that I really notice. When it comes down to it, Josh married the "little woman" from the old country. I believe that he wants to move forward and accomplish some things, but Anna really doesn't. This is just my opinion so far from what I have observed on TV and the stupid things Anna says about "more babies".

[PityFree]

He should sit Anna on a blanket on the floor. Every time she objects to things like kindergarten, college, birth control, etc. Josh should hit her hand with a wooden spoon.

[Barb23]

Re: Josh wanting HIS kids to at least attend college that was posted on another thread, here's my response to that.

I think Josh will have some opposition from Anna on that one. She seems to be stuck on the "old ways" and doesn't want to vary from Michelle at all in those things. She might have better fashion sense with Mac than Meechelle does with her girls, but I think that's the only difference that I really notice. When it comes down to it, Josh married the "little woman" from the old country. I believe that he wants to move forward and accomplish some things, but Anna really doesn't. This is just my opinion so far from what I have observed on TV and the stupid things Anna says about "more babies".

Good point. I can definitely see Anna not wanting the kiddos to go to college, especially Mac. She's already "training" (I hate that word when used with children) Mac in the woman ways of taking care of the house & family. At least Josh has plenty of time to convince her.

[bigskygirl]

When did he say he wanted his kids to attend college. Anna is not the one to blame if Josh has not move forward and accomplish things. He is the one who can get it done. No one pointed a gun to his head to get married and have four children.

[BitterApple]

You know what's funny is I could see Josh using Anna and the kids as a crutch for why he can't go to college. Remember the wisdom teeth episode? Josh had to reschedule because he had fluids too close to surgery. He wasted no time blaming Anna for the screw-up.

[superguard9]

 

No one pointed a gun to his head to get married and have four children.

Maybe not a literal gun, but as the first born in a family obsessed with having as many kids as possible I'm sure there was pressure on Josh. That's not to say he's not responsible for his actions (or lack thereof). Any hints or ideas of Josh working for what he wants (remember when he wanted to be a lawyer when he was younger?) faded the longer the Duggars were on TV and he saw how easy it was to get something for nothing. Add in a cute girl who worships him and why think about the rest. Too bad reality in the form of children and not living at home had to rear its ugly head </sarcasm>

[BitterApple]

It's interesting how Boob and Michelle pressured Josh to marry young, but they haven't done the same with JD and Joseph.

[BuddyMom]

My guess is Josh was exhibiting age-appropriate sexual desire and needed to get married quickly to righteously fulfill that need. Anna was at the right place at the right time. JD and Joseph seem a little more dull, almost asexual. Or they are fulfilling their needs on the side.

[Wellfleet]

It's interesting how Boob and Michelle pressured Josh to marry young, but they haven't done the same with JD and Joseph.

 

True enough, but then - how could they? Apparently no one's interested in JD or Joseph. LOL.

[DoctorWhovian]

True enough, but then - how could they? Apparently no one's interested in JD or Joseph. LOL.

 

 

I don't know about Joseph but would you be interested in JD? He just does not come across well.

[cereality]

I mean JD doesn't even come off well in the fundie world when there are guys who look like Chad Paine, and Lawson Bates out there; they may be similarly indoctrinated and uneducated, yet they have some personality and humor to them. Meanwhile JD is a dork who seems to be stuck at age 12. I mean what 24 yr old man -- fundie or not -- will brag about being the "chief car trasher" -- I put sardines in Chad's getaway car, hardy har har. And on top of that, he's pasty and middle aged looking like his older brother.

 

I think with Josh they wanted him married off quick because he was starting to show an obvious interest in women and sexual desire. They did not need him doing something that would embarrass the whole family as they have to think about the fact that they have 18 other kids to marry off and it'll be harder to arrange marriages if the family's stock falls; they didn't need him in another "sin in the camp" situation or even just picking up a girl at Sonic like Zach because then would respectable fundie families want to marry the Duggar girls? Same thing with Jessa -- she seems like she would have found some way to hook up with someone, even if it was just a TLC camera guy -- so better to get her married off to the first 19 yr old uneducated fundie boy who came calling. With JD, Joseph, Jana -- that risk isn't there, as they all seem more reserved.

 

I know the girls never go anywhere alone and that's probably true of the boys too, but if you're JD and Joseph -- after a hard day of handy man work for daddy -- do they ever hit the local sports bar for a burger? I don't understand how those two aren't out there talking to girls around town; they're quasi celebrities in a small town -- I don't imagine that if they hung out outside the home, it would be that hard to attract a conservative Christian girl who found them acceptable and wanted TLC fame so agreed to marry in. I mean esp for Joseph -- he's not even bad looking. And how can Mama and Daddy say no -- I mean if it's ok for their BFF's oldest son to meet a girl at Sonic, how is it not ok for them?

[Betweenyouandme]

I think the difference would be that Sonic doesn't serve alcohol.

We've seen them get doughnuts at a drive through. Maybe a new cashier will be wide eyed and bushy tailed.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Betweenyouandme

[BitterApple]

cereality, good points. The sad thing is, Josh expressing attraction and sexual desire for women is perfectly normal, but in Duggarland it'll get you sentenced to the Prayer Closet for life. I mean, what 19 year-old guy isn't a ball of raging hormones? I also agree that if Boob hadn't given Jessa the ok to marry Bin she would have ran off and married anyways or hooked up with someone else. Boob seems to want to marry his live wires off fairly quickly.

[cereality]

In that family -- and likely in any family that size -- the squeaky wheel gets the grease. In case of weddings, that means Josh and Jessa because they were the most likely to embarrass the family or somehow marry outside the fundie fold. As for Jill, I don't think she was a squeaky wheel  -- she 100% drank the kool aid and I doubt they worried about her running off to do something they didn't approve of, so in reward of such devotion -- when a college educated boy came calling, he got Jill's number rather than Jana's -- given that she has expressed displeasure with her life in ways that have required re-programming.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think the issue with JD is JD himself -- not his parents or lifestyle. I mean he has some outside exposure from being a constable. I'm still not convinced it is a real job, but I suspect he has to stop by an office on a semi-regular basis -- an office full of men his age and older. In small conservative places, which NW Arkansas is, a lot of relationships/marriages happen by set up - esp for those who don't marry a high school sweetheart. I find it hard to believe that none of the other constable's sisters or nieces or daughters has ever stopped by for 10 min to drop off a plate of cookies or to pick up an extra set of house keys or whatever it may be. If he was marginally more fit and had some kind of a personality that would be acceptable for a 24 yr old, I could see a small town, conservative NW Arkansas girl getting really impressed by the fact that her bro/father/uncle works with a DUGGAR -- you know the ones who've been on TV for 10 yrs -- and would want to get to know him better and boom -- 3 months later she'd be wearing his ring. It seems like JD is planning on working through the parent arrangement process, as  he has said that his dad keeps trying to "hook him up with girls and one day he'll probably say yes." That's unlike Josh -- who I think saw/met Anna first at some conference and then convinced his parents that the Lord said she was the one; Chad -- saw/met Erin at a dance and then convinced his parents to invite the Bates family over to get to know her more; Zach - Sonic; Ben - convinced his family to go to the home church so he could meet Jessa; etc. Seems like in that culture, guys are making the moves, just not JD.

[GEML]

I think Derick was given Jill's "number" because of the interest in missions. For all we know, Jana was asked first and said no, and Jana is too much of a lady to ever tell.

Anna actually had some college - I'm sure it's Gothard approved online unaccredited type stuff, but she supposedly did four years after graduating with a GED at 16. She studied child development and education to prepare for homeschooling, and I do think it shows. Josh will find a way to get a real college education for his own children, and Anna will likely back him up. They're living in the DMV now! ;)

[bigskygirl]

 Re: Jim Bob having control over Josh. Imo, JB still has control over Josh. Josh parrots what he has been taught by his parents at an early age. He is helping JB build God's Army and spread his religious and political views to the heathen masses. I would love to know if Josh really truly believes what he tries to sell to others over and over again or he was brainwashed by his parents to the point of no return. Josh also believes he is something special (another trait he learned from his father.) I think the pressure to be the golden Duggar son is catching up to him. He cannot stand up to Anna about how many children he wants. The panic look on his face during the baby number four announcement should have been a big wake up call to him. JB may be jealous of his son going to D.C. but as long as Josh toes the line about pushing JB's views, JB will be pulling Josh's strings for a long time.

[Darknight]

JD and the boys simply aren't as attractive as the girls. And with JD being 25 now, I won't be surprised if he's doing something on the side like going out alone or meeting girls

[Barb23]

"Going out ALONE". Hey, I won't tell & good for him if he is.

[MarysWetBar]

I don't know about Joseph but would you be interested in JD? He just does not come across well.

JD reminds me an awful lot of the character Billy Bob played in Sling Blade.

[Wellfleet]

In that family -- and likely in any family that size -- the squeaky wheel gets the grease. In case of weddings, that means Josh and Jessa because they were the most likely to embarrass the family or somehow marry outside the fundie fold. As for Jill, I don't think she was a squeaky wheel  -- she 100% drank the kool aid and I doubt they worried about her running off to do something they didn't approve of, so in reward of such devotion -- when a college educated boy came calling, he got Jill's number rather than Jana's -- given that she has expressed displeasure with her life in ways that have required re-programming.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think the issue with JD is JD himself -- not his parents or lifestyle. I mean he has some outside exposure from being a constable. I'm still not convinced it is a real job, but I suspect he has to stop by an office on a semi-regular basis -- an office full of men his age and older. In small conservative places, which NW Arkansas is, a lot of relationships/marriages happen by set up - esp for those who don't marry a high school sweetheart. I find it hard to believe that none of the other constable's sisters or nieces or daughters has ever stopped by for 10 min to drop off a plate of cookies or to pick up an extra set of house keys or whatever it may be. If he was marginally more fit and had some kind of a personality that would be acceptable for a 24 yr old, I could see a small town, conservative NW Arkansas girl getting really impressed by the fact that her bro/father/uncle works with a DUGGAR -- you know the ones who've been on TV for 10 yrs -- and would want to get to know him better and boom -- 3 months later she'd be wearing his ring. It seems like JD is planning on working through the parent arrangement process, as  he has said that his dad keeps trying to "hook him up with girls and one day he'll probably say yes." That's unlike Josh -- who I think saw/met Anna first at some conference and then convinced his parents that the Lord said she was the one; Chad -- saw/met Erin at a dance and then convinced his parents to invite the Bates family over to get to know her more; Zach - Sonic; Ben - convinced his family to go to the home church so he could meet Jessa; etc. Seems like in that culture, guys are making the moves, just not JD.

 

Seems odd to me that some people think Boob is shopping around for brides for his sons.  In fundie land, are fathers actually supposed to find wives for their sons too? I thought it was Daddy's job to find husbands for the daughters only. Someone please correct me if I'm misinterpreting this.

[GEML]

You're right. John David and Joseph should be getting a "feeling" when they pray about who they should marry. Then they contact the father if the daughter is willing.

When the Bates' son had a courtship fall apart there was talk about him turning to JD. Which made me wonder if perhaps JD had expressed interest in someone and been shot down. This is probably my prejudice showing, but JD shows little empathy on the show, so I was surprised that he showed some then. So I wondered where it came from. And JD strikes me as someone who once burned wouldn't try again quickly.

[cereality]

I thought the same thing. Why would Zach reach out to JD for support if JD had never been in any kind of courting relationship/conversation ever -- what would JD possibly have told him? In that case, Josh would've been a better choice. My bet is that JD asked a fundie dad for permission to court and permission was denied -- maybe bc the dad didn't want it or likely the daughter didn't want to even consider JD so it was easier to have dad say no. Or maybe JD got to the beginnings of a "get to know you" period and then the girl broke it off, which would lead him to have the same feelings as Zach. Though if that's the case, I'm shocked that Josh isn't "encouraging" JD -- or making fun of him knowing Josh's arrogance -- to get back on the horse bc he'll never "become" a man until he finds a girl and he'll fall way behind on the kid race.

[graefin]

JD reminds me an awful lot of the character Billy Bob played in Sling Blade.

He reminds me a lot of the Cletus character on the Simpsons.

[trimthatfat]

Seems odd to me that some people think Boob is shopping around for brides for his sons.  In fundie land, are fathers actually supposed to find wives for their sons too? I thought it was Daddy's job to find husbands for the daughters only. Someone please correct me if I'm misinterpreting this.

That's how I understood it, too. I didn't think fathers were to find wives for the sons.

Edited January 21, 2015 by trimthatfat

[GEML]

I wouldn't be surprised if Josh and JB don't tease John David mercilessly about his pitiful state - I'm sorry, "encourage" him the way Jim Bob did on the rock climbing/zip line episode. But mercifully the show gives us very little of it. Also, Josh seems to genuinely care about his siblings, in some ways he can be more mature towards them than his parents are capable.

[Barb23]

Seems odd to me that some people think Boob is shopping around for brides for his sons.  In fundie land, are fathers actually supposed to find wives for their sons too? I thought it was Daddy's job to find husbands for the daughters only. Someone please correct me if I'm misinterpreting this.

I think it's because they are TV "stars". Hasn't Boob said something on the show about JD & Joe being available & send letters to him if they are interested? Even if Boob didn't say it, I'm sure they still receive tons of mail showing interest in both the girls & guys.

[Wellfleet]

I wouldn't be surprised if Josh and JB don't tease John David mercilessly about his pitiful state - I'm sorry, "encourage" him the way Jim Bob did on the rock climbing/zip line episode. But mercifully the show gives us very little of it. Also, Josh seems to genuinely care about his siblings, in some ways he can be more mature towards them than his parents are capable.

 

Agree - at times Josh DOES seem more mature than his parents. But then, both Boob and Mechelle are totally stuck at age 15-16. So it's not saying an awful lot about Josh.

[GEML]

Let's keep in mind that John David would never think of courting a girl without "counsel" from his father.

I'd like to think he would, but alas, I'm sure he wouldn't.

Edited January 21, 2015 by GEML

[trimthatfat]

I have no doubt JB would counsel his sons - I just don't quite believe he'd be as integral in finding a wife for his sons as he would be in finding husbands for his daughters. Like, from what I remember, JB and Michelle were none too sad when Josh got married whereas with Jill, JB was quite emotional.

[GEML]

The only reason I think it would be more than just normal Fundy control freak "counsel" is there is the TV show and some real money to consider. That's just not the same as Gothard family with 15 kids living in middle of Michigan and trying to make the best of things on Dad's job as owner of a moving company, where he "employs" all six of his sons and two sons in law.