Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Fosca]

It's possible that the 5th victim didn't sue before because 1. When she was underage her parents/church wouldn't let her, and 2. By the time she was old enough and/or secure enough to sue, she didn't think anyone would believe her--without the police report (which she probably thought didn't exist or had been destroyed) would anyone have believed her?

[kokapetl]

It's possible that the 5th victim didn't sue before because 1. When she was underage her parents/church wouldn't let her, and 2. By the time she was old enough and/or secure enough to sue, she didn't think anyone would believe her--without the police report (which she probably thought didn't exist or had been destroyed) would anyone have believed her?

The Babysitter was an adult at the time of her police interview in 2006, and she only discovered she had been assaulted when the contrite Duggars told her in 2002/2003.

[NikSac]

How did they explain to the babysitter that the girls' bedroom door was to remain locked???

 

I thought they incorporated the locking bedroom door in the TTH but the molestations happened in the previous house?  If that's the case, there was no locked bedroom door when the babysitter molestation happened.

[zenme]

So the babysitter was also unaware someone had been fondling her while she slept?  Was this what the Duggars say happened, or is it the actual truth?  I dunno.  I still find it very hard to believe that not one of the girls (except for the girl in his lap), felt Josh's hands. 

[HundFan]

Dear Santa (I know I'm early, but I've been good and this is really important),

Please let the rumored lawsuit by Josh Duggar's fifth victim proceed. Please let the Duggars' hubris lead them to "buy used and save the difference" when lawyering up, and give them inept counsel who secretly abhor them and bungle their defense (though not to the extent an appeal or mistrial could occur). Please give the victim a crack shot feminist legal team that wears pants and graduated from the Ivy League. Please make some of these women lesbians who just married their wives in Arkansas. Please make sure the Duggars know this.

 

During depositions and testimony, please let the victim's lawyers use big words and withering questions to scare the shit out of Josh and his molester-enabling parents. Please give Josh, MEchelle and Boob overactive bladders, cotton mouth and flop sweat during questioning - and please let the court reporter so note in the legal record. Please keep Josh on his stress-relieving junk food diet and make his "court clothes" waistband so tight it pinches whenever he sits. Finally, please give Josh's fifth victim a sympathetic judge and anything and everything that eases her gelatinous molester-caused pain even a tiny bit, including but not limited to the following: (1) a huge cash settlement from the Duggars, (2) public Duggar admissions of guilt, and (3) personal apologies from each of the three Duggars, prepared in isolation without PR team input in the presence of a court-appointed proctor who will also supervise the hand delivery of said apologies to Josh's fifth victim.  

Hoping For The Best Since I've Been Good,

Not A Duggar Fan

PS: I know I'm asking a lot, but I promise I won't bother you again 'til next year. I'm thinking maybe then you could free one of the J-slaves? Just tossing out the idea. Thanks again!

 

ETA: "Gelatinous molester" came from another poster. Sorry I can't recall who said it - but I loved it so I told whomever it was that term should be his name of record henceforth.

Edited July 4, 2015 by HundFan

[kokapetl]

So the babysitter was also unaware someone had been fondling her while she slept? Was this what the Duggars say happened, or is it the actual truth? I dunno. I still find it very hard to believe that not one of the girls (except for the girl in his lap), felt Josh's hands.

In her 2006 police interview, the non Duggar victim said although she remembered spending the night at the Duggars, she did not remember any assault.

[Flowers]

In her 2006 police interview, the non Duggar victim said although she remembered spending the night at the Duggars, she did not remember any assault.

Maybe all the media buzz, seeing certain pics of him or the home or the family, or something else, has triggered her memory.

I hope for the same things as in the Dear Santa post above.

[zenme]

In her 2006 police interview, the non Duggar victim said although she remembered spending the night at the Duggars, she did not remember any assault.

 

Wow.  Well, all I can say is that Josh missed his calling.  For all his stealth he could have been a ninja, or with hands like that he could have been a surgeon.

[kokapetl]

Wow. Well, all I can say is that Josh missed his calling. For all his stealth he could have been a ninja, or with hands like that he could have been a surgeon.

Not that I think Jessa knew what the word meant, Josh actually was sly.

How about Josh Duggar, Cat Burglar? No not lithe enough.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Dianaofthehunt]

HundFan, your list is mine; exactly!

[What In The]

About the victim suing Josh, when mommy superior Kourtney Kardashian had some pics stolen from her of a sexual experience with her High School bf, they were able to press charges because she was a minor at the time of the incident. Not sure if she can but if she can sue Josh on the same premis then good for her. I want Justice for her more than for the Kardashian hoe bags.

[Sew Sumi]

Maybe all the media buzz, seeing certain pics of him or the home or the family, or something else, has triggered her memory.

I hope for the same things as in the Dear Santa post above.

She may well still have been under the jurisdiction of her fundie parents, and been coached as to what to say. Just a thought. 

 

Josh Duggar, fox in the henhouse. 

[What In The]

ETA, Kourt sued as an adult years later.

[zenme]

Josh Duggar, fox in the henhouse.

 

Is that the new thread title?

[Cherrio]

So the babysitter was also unaware someone had been fondling her while she slept?  Was this what the Duggars say happened, or is it the actual truth?  I dunno.  I still find it very hard to believe that not one of the girls (except for the girl in his lap), felt Josh's hands. 

 

       Are children being drugged?  The Druggars?     I don't believe a word of what they say.

[Joe Jitsu913]

That's assuming they had a mortgage. If not, I don't think he had to have homeowner's insurance at all. (I'm not 100% sure on that, but I think that's the case)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Duggars rented that house? If so, they wouldn't have homeowners insurance.

If they owned the house without a mortgage, they are not required to have homeowners insurance. Although it's a wise investment, we all know Jim Bob is cheap and he wouldn't have ponied up the cash.

[NikSac]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Duggars rented that house? If so, they wouldn't have homeowners insurance.

If they owned the house without a mortgage, they are not required to have homeowners insurance. Although it's a wise investment, we all know Jim Bob is cheap and he wouldn't have ponied up the cash.

 

Good question, I don't know on that house whether it was a rental, owned, or mortgaged. Hopefully someone who knows more Duggar real-estate history can help.

[Sew Sumi]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Duggars rented that house? If so, they wouldn't have homeowners insurance.

If they owned the house without a mortgage, they are not required to have homeowners insurance. Although it's a wise investment, we all know Jim Bob is cheap and he wouldn't have ponied up the cash.

The abuse all occurred at the Johnson Rd. house, which they moved out of into the "rent house." So yes, they owned it. Whether they owned it in the clear is anyone's best guess, but I think they must have. They did Sammons' debt seminar not long after they met Dr. Wheat (the ":Pill causes miscarriage" and fundie sex book author). So, they've "purposed" to be debt-free since the early/mid-90's. I remember Jinger saying she was born in that house, so that was 12/93. Hard to say if they still carried a mortgage as late as 2002/3. I would wager that they didn't. Who knows what kind of insurance they had on that house, if any at all?

Edited July 3, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[Vermicious Knid]

Please give the victim a crack shot feminist legal team that wears pants and graduated from the Ivy League.

 

 

Please be Gloria Allred :)

[Fuzzysox]

Please be Gloria Allred :)

I think your probably right she loves cases that allow her to famewhore the situation but I haven't seen her around in awhile, is she still taking cases?

[mbutterfly]

The Babysitter was an adult at the time of her police interview in 2006, and she only discovered she had been assaulted when the contrite Duggars told her in 2002/2003.

How do we know when she knew she had been assaulted? I didn't think she had spoken. 

Added to say: I am not trusting what she said in what seems to have been a pretty controlled interview. Honestly I don't believe it is possible she didn't know it or slept through it. 

Edited July 3, 2015 by mbutterfly

[NikSac]

Thought this might be a good refresher: http://imgur.com/a/zqPMi#30

 

This is the police report page related to the babysitter. The interview was in 2006, and on this page the person says it happened when she was asleep. She knew about it because her parents got a call 3.5-4 years ago from JB and Michelle telling her parents what had happened (which would put her assault at around 2002-2003). She was on the asleep on the living room couch and remembers spending the night there, but not the assault.

 

I swore there was something about a blanket too, but I'm not finding it again (and it's a lot of pages to dig through), so hopefully that answers the main questions.

[Morgalisa]

Fuzzy, Gloria Allred is representing several of the Cosby accusers.

[Loves2Dance]

Thought this might be a good refresher: http://imgur.com/a/zqPMi#30

 

This is the police report page related to the babysitter. The interview was in 2006, and on this page the person says it happened when she was asleep. She knew about it because her parents got a call 3.5-4 years ago from JB and Michelle telling her parents what had happened (which would put her assault at around 2002-2003). She was on the asleep on the living room couch and remembers spending the night there, but not the assault.

 

I swore there was something about a blanket too, but I'm not finding it again (and it's a lot of pages to dig through), so hopefully that answers the main questions.

 

 

Pretty sure it was Jill who remembers Josh trying to steal her blanket one night. And it partially woke her up. 

[purplemonkey]

Re: insurance, as a wealthy person, JB probably has umbrella liability insurance. Not sure if that would help Josh at all. I am not a lawyer.

[SmallTownMom]

Our local paper has an interesting story this morning.  Seems a 27-year-old young man made some "mistakes".  He broke into 2 Amish houses and fondled girls in their sleep.  For this he will serve 4-8 years in jail, have no contact with the victims or their families, and must register as a sex offender under Megan's law.

 

Sounds a little harsh compared to someone who gets a stern lecture, does some construction work as counseling, and is allowed to live with his victims.

[ariel]

Please be Gloria Allred :)

Or her daughter Attorney Lisa Bloom.

[TomServo]

I swore there was something about a blanket too, but I'm not finding it again (and it's a lot of pages to dig through), so hopefully that answers the main questions.

 

I believe that part is near the beginning and is part of Jim Bob and Michelle's initial interview and was not about the babysitter.  They told the police that one of the girls kinda sorta remembered halfway waking up one time when Josh took her blanket off, but that she didn't remember if anything else happened.

[Joe Jitsu913]

Re: insurance, as a wealthy person, JB probably has umbrella liability insurance. Not sure if that would help Josh at all. I am not a lawyer.

Umbrella liability insurance is used only after the existing policy limits are exhausted. Assuming his primary policy will pay anything at all. At the time of the molestation, I would bet Jim Bob didn't have any umbrella insurance.

Even if they have umbrella insurance now, it would depend if his current policy would cover this incident or any lawsuit or not. If not, then there is no coverage and Jim Bob would have to pay out of his own pocket.

[Ljohnson1987]

I'm surprised Smugs and Smugette haven't announced M4's name yet.

 

Lisa Bloom would be a beast representing this victim,

[duggarshow]

Our local paper has an interesting story this morning.  Seems a 27-year-old young man made some "mistakes".  He broke into 2 Amish houses and fondled girls in their sleep.  For this he will serve 4-8 years in jail, have no contact with the victims or their families, and must register as a sex offender under Megan's law.

 

Sounds a little harsh compared to someone who gets a stern lecture, does some construction work as counseling, and is allowed to live with his victims.

 

Not a parallel comparison at all. 

[Julia]

Not a parallel comparison at all. 

 

No, it isn't. Their parents didn't implicitly consent.

[duggarshow]

No, it isn't. Their parents didn't implicitly consent.

Josh wasn't an almost thirty year old adult, either.

[SmallTownMom]

Thank you, Julia! I saw a lot of similarities.

 

  I know the B & E part is worse. Andthe man was 27, not 14 or 15.

 

It was much handier for Josh because he lived there.  And was allowed to continue rather than being charged. 

 

I was merely comparing perverts.

Edited July 3, 2015 by bigskygirl
Taking a dig at another poster

[PinkSprinkles]

In her 2006 police interview, the non Duggar victim said although she remembered spending the night at the Duggars, she did not remember any assault.

 

This could be another unnamed, undisclosed victim filing the lawsuit. We have no way of knowing if it is indeed the "babysitter" from the report. It's just assumed to be based that we know there were at least five victims. That doesn't mean there were only five victims. 

[kokapetl]

Please be Gloria Allred :)

Gloria Allred would be nice, but she tends to trot out her clients to the media to cry on camera, and Gloria seems to need corroborating witnesses too. Any potential plaintiff in this instance needs better than that. Edited July 3, 2015 by Kokapetl

[GEML]

If this does go to court, I'd like an attorney who is exceptional, but doesn't need to make it about him/her. Which means we probably have never heard the name. I want justice, not a fireworks display. That's what the 4th is for!

[SpottedCoachDog]

I thought I read that what set the woman off and is making her consider filing suit was the Kelly interviews and the fact that the Duggars are being so dismissive about the gravity of the crime. If this is her only form of recourse, I hope she takes them to the poorhouse.

I'm reminded of this quote from Rachel on "Friends"..., "Hey, just so you know: It is not that common, it doesn't happen to every guy and it is a big deal!!!"

[xtwheeler]

Current PLUP (personal liability umbrella policy) insurance should not provide a defense or settlement in this case. The insurance, if any, at the home where the molestation happened or at least during that period would usually apply. Most insurance policies are not "claims made" policies that defend you now no matter if they insured you during the incident.

I once represented a young man who upon his age of majority was able to sue not only his abuser but the a user's wife for "aiding and abetting" the crime. In that case the insurance policies at the time of the act/omission covered it.

Lots of statutes of limitations either don't start running until the victim is of ago, or may be tolled for various reasons, including the victim not knowing about the crime, not understanding it, even things like if the perpetrator was out of the jurisdiction. We won't know until the suit is filed how it may shake out.

[TaxNerd]

Joan River's daughter has spoken out quite a bit about suing her mother's doctor not for money, but because unfortunately that is the only way to get answers and the truth of what really happened. I think the fifth victim may sue for that reason.

I find it interesting that they can't plead the fifth because they can't incriminate themselves. However, I forsee lots of the old standby, "I don't remember/recall".

[What In The]

Anna is probably plotzing in her pants right now.

[Loves2Dance]

Something that I was thinking about tonight---when it comes to this fifth victim, we know she told the police a similar story as the Duggar daughter's (sleeping, didn't remember, over the clothes)...etc, etc. What kind of a scandal would ensue if that were a lie? Maybe she wants the truth to come out and it's not about the money? She likely could have been coached and her parents basically told they were getting Josh help and they didn't want to ruin his future; I could see how that one gets manipulated. All of this stuff coming out now could very easily exposed cover-up lies told to them back in the day. 

 

I think JB is gonna wanna settle out of court; I think Josh will too, I hope the victim refuses. 

[GEML]

As has been pointed out, we don't KNOW this is even the fifth victim in the police report. And I agree, the police report is only a report, not "truth." We don't KNOW anything, really.

[judecarlo]

The reality show focuses on the life of the Duggar family who are devout Independent Baptists,[1] and frequently discusses values of purity, modesty, and faith in God.

[louannems]

I have always felt that the whole family was lying about the whole "It's no big deal, we don't remember, it's over the clothing,we didn't know, he was sly, etc. It went on for a fairly long period of time; I just don't believe that things didn't escalate and victims don't remember. I also never believed that Joshie ran to mom and pops and cried and repented after each criminal episode. [snip] I just can't believe what the Duggars are saying.

Edited July 4, 2015 by bigskygirl
No proof of incestuous actions by Josh

[GEML]

I could honestly see one of the victims feeling that way. But all four? No.

[Flowers]

I have always felt that the whole family was lying about the whole "It's no big deal, we don't remember, it's over the clothing,we didn't know, he was sly, etc. It went on for a fairly long period of time; I just don't believe that things didn't escalate and victims don't remember. I also never believed that Joshie ran to mom and pops and cried and repented after each criminal episode. [snip] I just can't believe what the Duggars are saying.

This.

What 14 year old boy runs to his parents with the news he touched his sisters' private parts??

[kandinski]

Its rubbish,they had to paint a fuzzy sugar coated image of a poor upset,crying boy confused and bewildered at what he had just done.

 

Now do you think Josh would have done that or slunk out of the bedroom got in his bed and gone back to sleep,ready to do it the next night?

[Ljohnson1987]

Why isn't Anna more concerned about Smugs touching their daughters? She should be.

[CofCinci]

Why isn't Anna more concerned about Smugs touching their daughters? She should be.

I doubt she has slept a single night through since learning the truth about her husband. She's probably replayed every time he changed a diaper or gave the kids a bath. Right now she can use pregnancy to avoid sexual intimacy, but what happens in a few months. Every time he touches her, she will feel sick just thinking about what her husband has done.