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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

maraleia

By maraleia
in Counting On

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Laura Holt

Laura Holt

2 hours ago, Meow Mix said:

Given what we have seen of her over the years and how fundies operate within their churches, I think she knows he did something wrong.  Fundie churches are big on saying that stuff should be handled within the church rather than bringing in law enforcement. 

They also have a tendency to at least pretend that they believe all sins are equal.  So if Josh would go to Jesus jail for viewing regular porn why would he be treated any differently for child porn?  To someone like Anna they wouldn't even be pretending, to her it's all the same.  

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hoosier80
hoosier80

New show title: 10 to 20 Years and Counting 

MargeGunderson
MargeGunderson

Someone on Reddit just described Josh’s face as a glistening glazed ham. I am considering divorcing my husband and marrying that poster. 

doodlebug
doodlebug

Well, for many of us, it's the difference between 'imperfect' and 'non-PC' and being a criminal.  Josh is a child molester and his parents actively intervened in his situation to avoid him being punis

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Stevie Nicks

Stevie Nicks

5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

All this discussion about the FF's lawyers makes me think what the Duggars have 'taught' us.

Wouldn't this all be God's will? Weren't the Duggars made to walk through this season of life in His timing?

Why hire lawyers at all?

They probably believe that God is testing their faith or some shit. 

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Salacious Kitty

Salacious Kitty

4 minutes ago, Laura Holt said:

They also have a tendency to at least pretend that they believe all sins are equal.  So if Josh would go to Jesus jail for viewing regular porn why would he be treated any differently for child porn?  To someone like Anna they wouldn't even be pretending, to her it's all the same.  

Unfortunately for FF, that's not how the law works. If he hadn't been publicly caught, but caught nonetheless somehow, I bet he would have gone to Jesus Jail again. Not that it worked the first time. 🙄

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merylinkid

merylinkid

34 minutes ago, Laura Holt said:

They also have a tendency to at least pretend that they believe all sins are equal.  So if Josh would go to Jesus jail for viewing regular porn why would he be treated any differently for child porn?  To someone like Anna they wouldn't even be pretending, to her it's all the same.  

Worse, having a beer or allowing the 7-11 down the street to sell beer is as bad as what FF did in their world.   Which is why the "punishment" does nothing.  He would get the same punishment if he said a bad word.   

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Meow Mix

Meow Mix

21 hours ago, Laura Holt said:

They also have a tendency to at least pretend that they believe all sins are equal.  So if Josh would go to Jesus jail for viewing regular porn why would he be treated any differently for child porn?  To someone like Anna they wouldn't even be pretending, to her it's all the same.  

I remember Jessa in her statement implied this.  She equated what the felon was looking at to legal adult porn, which it is not.

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xwordfanatik

xwordfanatik

This thinking of "all sins are equal" really pisses me off.  Is this more IBLP bullshit?  

4 hours ago, Meow Mix said:

I remember Jessa in her statement implied this.  She equated what the felon was looking at to legal adult porn, which it is not.

This is beyond fucked up!  😡  I would never forgive J-Inmate for what he's done.  

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CalicoKitty

CalicoKitty

1 hour ago, xwordfanatik said:

This thinking of "all sins are equal" really pisses me off.  Is this more IBLP bullshit?  

This is beyond fucked up!  😡  I would never forgive J-Inmate for what he's done.  

But I thought watching porn was very, very wrong.  Don't they have Covenant Eyes for this very purpose?  Wasn't it in the wedding vows that some wife would make sure to monitor her new husband's phone?  So if watching porn is so, so horrible, and "all sins are equal", shouldn't they be horrified with J'inmate?  Maybe all sins are equal for everyone EXCEPT the first-born son.

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P-Fat

P-Fat

7 hours ago, xwordfanatik said:

This thinking of "all sins are equal" really pisses me off.  Is this more IBLP bullshit?  

This is beyond fucked up!  😡  I would never forgive J-Inmate for what he's done.  

Nah my ex-husband was in a different fundie cult and they said the same thing. I used to make him mad when I would question it. Excuses were made, goal posts were moved, and that's one of the reasons he is now an "ex"!

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Notabug

Notabug

(edited)
On 8/13/2023 at 5:21 PM, CalicoKitty said:

But I thought watching porn was very, very wrong.  Don't they have Covenant Eyes for this very purpose?  Wasn't it in the wedding vows that some wife would make sure to monitor her new husband's phone?  So if watching porn is so, so horrible, and "all sins are equal", shouldn't they be horrified with J'inmate?  Maybe all sins are equal for everyone EXCEPT the first-born son.

The whole cult is focused on the sinner.  All sins are equally bad in the eyes of their lord.  There is no consideration given to those who might've been hurt by the sin.  As a matter of fact, there is a fair amount of victim blaming which is why the Duggar girls ended up sleeping in their clothes in a locked bedroom at night.  And why they couldn't let a boy see their collarbones or knees.  They were given the message that they were also sinners for having tempted the men to sin.

So, being involved with CSAM is no worse than stealing a candy bar from the 7-11.  A little kid forced to perform sex acts is no different than an adult who chooses to perform those same acts voluntarily.  They're both leading men to sin.  It's a very sick way of thinking about right and wrong.

You will also notice that, in almost all cases, it is the male sinner who gets cut the slack while it is the women and children who are really at fault for leading them astray.

Edited by Notabug
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Minivanessa

Minivanessa

11 hours ago, P-Fat said:

Nah my ex-husband was in a different fundie cult and they said the same thing.

That's always been my understanding about the prevalence of the "all sins are equal" idea - it's pretty widespread. We know - although we've had to kind of piece it all together from different sources over the years - that when J'inmate was a teenager, he molested five very young girls ("Case 1") and at least a year or two later it was discovered that he also had watched (adult) porn on a computer ("Case 2"). In both cases, as I understand it, he was brought before the church elders. I think that in Case 2 he may have also been brought before the entire church, as the podcaster named Justin described witnessing as a kid in that church. 

For Case 1 - J'inmate was sent to work on the ATI's Little Rock building/remodeling project. And had a stern "talking-to" from a law enforcement officer - who these days is serving a long prison sentence for possessing CSAM. 

For Case 2 - J'inmate's head was shaved and he was sent to spend a hot Arkansas summer digging out an irrigation pond. Living out in fairly isolated conditions doing literally filthy work. (And brought back to Tontitown as required when TLC's crews were there shooting footage, of course). 

That ^^ is my understanding of what happened, based on information made available over the years online, and I don't offer it as absolute truth. Corrections welcomed, but I'm going with it as truthful until reliably corrected.

So the message is:

  1. Molest children: go hammer some nails for awhile and chat with a friendly cop. Amy said she was told that J'inmate was just away from home helping people build houses.
  2. Look at adult porn: undergo a shaming before the church congregation with a shaved head, then spend a sweltering summer shoveling mud and sh*t out on an isolated farm, living alone in a shack with your meals brought to you. 

Not to drag this conversation way off topic, but I will say this. I watch a lot of true crime on TV. The deets of the cases tend to drift into and out of my mind, but offhand without any searching I can name at least three cases where religious folk murdered their spouses [themselves or had someone else do it] to be free to live happily ever after with their side piece. These were (nominal) Christians of the conservative-to-fundie flavor. Of course those perps were not good people no matter what doctrines they espoused, but the "I've already sinned by committing adultery so what's another one like murder?" idea no doubt fed into their evil acts. In fact, one of them actually used that idea, among others, in persuading his mistress to kill his wife. (Brian Hood, whose mistress Jennifer Reali shot his wife Dianne Hood to death, Colorado Springs, 1990). 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

9 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

They may intellectually k ow there's a difference, but spiritually, they believe all ain is the same. And spiritual belief grumps the secular world in their narrow views.

Yea, I agree, but again the sins are the same in regard to God's forgiveness.

A kid teasing a sibling is different than a kid hitting their sibling and/or pushing their sibling into on coming traffic. God will forgive them equally for these sins if they repent, but the parent, even the Fundy parent, will punish each sin differently.

Gemma Violet

Gemma Violet

Take this with a block of salt, but today I heard on a Youtube video by a Duggar vlogger (not WOACB) that a cellmate in the prison (who has contacted her with reliable info in the past) told her Anna and Josh are no longer together.  She says that Josh allegedly told him "My wife is done with me.  That is her New Year's resolution.  She is not happy with me."  The guy also said Josh does not read the bible although his nickname is Bible Boy.  Like I said, block of salt.  It would be great if true, though.

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Albanyguy

Albanyguy

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30 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

Take this with a block of salt, but today I heard on a Youtube video by a Duggar vlogger (not WOACB) that a cellmate in the prison (who has contacted her with reliable info in the past) told her Anna and Josh are no longer together.  She says that Josh allegedly told him "My wife is done with me.  That is her New Year's resolution.  She is not happy with me."  The guy also said Josh does not read the bible although his nickname is Bible Boy.  Like I said, block of salt.  It would be great if true, though.

The only thing I believe about that is that his prison nickname is “Bible Boy” 

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merylinkid

merylinkid

8 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Was just reading with the same thoughts. If anything, he's done with Anna. 

He's been done with her for a while.

But Anna was hanging in there through the appeal, at least.   Also hasn't she been spotted at the prison in 2023?    if it was a New Year's resolution, she blew it.

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BetyBee

BetyBee

9 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

Take this with a block of salt, but today I heard on a Youtube video by a Duggar vlogger (not WOACB) that a cellmate in the prison (who has contacted her with reliable info in the past) told her Anna and Josh are no longer together.  She says that Josh allegedly told him "My wife is done with me.  That is her New Year's resolution.  She is not happy with me."  The guy also said Josh does not read the bible although his nickname is Bible Boy.  Like I said, block of salt.  It would be great if true, though.

I would like to believe that Anna has come to her senses, but she's a hard core believer in all things Gothard. I do believe Pest has been done with her for some time. What would it even mean if she was done with him, since she still lives with his parents? Her life sucks and her children are doomed. 

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Minivanessa

Minivanessa

7 hours ago, SMama said:

Child Sexual Abuse Material

I should have worded my post more clearly. I know what CSAM means. I was asking what the OP was referring to, and did get an answer. (Because that post had followed mine, I wondered if there was some rumor that J'inmate's porn viewing as a teen, was other than adult porn. It turns out that reference was to another post which had used the older and now outdated term for that material, not to my post at all.)

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SMama

SMama

47 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I should have worded my post more clearly. I know what CSAM means. I was asking what the OP was referring to, and did get an answer. (Because that post had followed mine, I wondered if there was some rumor that J'inmate's porn viewing as a teen, was other than adult porn. It turns out that reference was to another post which had used the older and now outdated term for that material, not to my post at all.)

Sorry

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Future Cat Lady

Future Cat Lady

3 hours ago, BetyBee said:

I would like to believe that Anna has come to her senses, but she's a hard core believer in all things Gothard. I do believe Pest has been done with her for some time. What would it even mean if she was done with him, since she still lives with his parents? Her life sucks and her children are doomed. 

If she divorces him, she loses the Duggar's support. She would also loose part of her own family's support. Even, if she has a few siblings that would like to help her, they can't take her and her seven kids. She doesn't own a house or have any job experience  and I don't think she has that much money in her name.

It would take a lot of courage and determination for Anna to leave everything to start a new life on her own. Even if she was done with him, she's stuck.

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Salacious Kitty

Salacious Kitty

1 minute ago, satrunrose said:

It could be that Anna is done in the sense of not visiting, not sending money, not telling everybody he's #blessed to minister to all the real criminals and not hinting that we don't know "the whole story", not necessarily that's she's going to divorce him (at least not now).

As I understand it, FF couldn't have any calls, visitors, or commissary for 6 months, dating back to March. So no, Anna can't visit or send money even if she wants to. 

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Gemma Violet

Gemma Violet

Even if she didn't want to visit him, she'd still probably bring the kids to see him since they probably want to visit him (that is, when he's again allowed to have visitors.)

That being said, yeah, as much as I'd want her to be through with him and hope the vlogger is right, she's got no other options if she wants a roof over her head.

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DXD526

DXD526

As out there as it sounds, Anna's situation reminds me of on The Sopranos, when Carmela finally had enough of Tony's running around, and decided she wanted a divorce. When she went looking for a lawyer, she found no one would take her case. Once they found out who she wanted a divorce from, they were all, no thanks, I'd rather live. So she was forced to stay and make the best of it. 

Like Carmela, what Anna might want and what she can realistically have, are two different things. 

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Minivanessa

Minivanessa

If J'inmate hasn't been able to visit with Anna since March, he'll probably be glad to see her when she can visit again. That said, I don't think that he's on board with the idea that he's called to save souls for Jesus while he's a guest of the federal government - although his father and his wife, among others, may fervently believe that's the case. And no doubt he's continued to talk the party line as he has all his life (I think he's a liar, hypocrite, and manipulator, and I doubt he believes in anything beyond gratifying his own wants and needs although being in prison certainly limits the scope of possibilities in that regard).

Assuming he retains his visiting privileges, I think Anna will visit him every. single. chance she can take, and constantly write to him, and I'm sure she'll spout a lot of Jesus talk at him. I wonder if he'll ever get pushed to his limits of tolerance and stop going along with all that, or just say whatever it takes to keep her sweet.

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Salacious Kitty

Salacious Kitty

He can parrot the party line in his sleep. There's no way that Anna could tell that he was lying about downloading CSAM, what assurances does she have that he's sincere about anything? Well, aside from his desire to get out of prison. 

But the bottom line is, Anna can't read her own spouse, AND she remains blind to his actions. She deserves everything coming her way. The thought that she thinks she has a loving husband is laughable. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

Anna and Josh really don't have anyone but each other. Sure they have JB&M and Pecan and Prissy, but everyone beyond that has pulled away to some degree, or completely. Anna can't even go to a funeral without being gawked at by her own cousin-in-law. 

The day they were married Anna carried/pulled their luggage to the honeymoon suite. The day the FF sealed his fate by downloading CSAM, he was lying to Anna saying he couldn't go to Home Depot with her because "he had customers".  This is what her marriage has been for over a decade. She knows nothing else.

Most (but not all) folks would have woken up after their spouse was arrested and divorced their ass. But most didn't spend their life in a cult. I thought after a year or two without Josh she'd wake up, but really waking up has no benefit at all to her. Her world, and the kids' world fell apart once and will fall apart again the minute she wakes up to reality. It appears to me she is in self preservation mode, both emotionally and logistically.

Josh on the other hand is a sick man and will forever be one. I believe he thinks he loves Anna and I believe he thinks he has faith in God. Scum like Josh lie to themselves as much as they lie to others.

At this point I think its going to take the FF being released and reoffending for either one of them to come close to reality.

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Most (but not all) folks would have woken up after their spouse was arrested and divorced their ass. But most didn't spend their life in a cult. I thought after a year or two without Josh she'd wake up, but really waking up has no benefit at all to her. Her world, and the kids' world fell apart once and will fall apart again the minute she wakes up to reality. It appears to me she is in self preservation mode, both emotionally and logistically.

 

I don’t think Anna will ever wake up. I’ve mentioned here before my friend who’s mom is in a similar situation (we are actually hanging out today). My friend’s father sexually assaulted her as a child, went to prison for a contact crime on an unrelated minor (she says the best time in her family was when her father was in prison). He got out and her mother took him back and lives in her own version of denial to this day. (25yrs later!) Now my friend’s mom has cancer and the other siblings want to help but they don’t want to be anywhere near their father or give him money, and they are still married and live together. 
 

11 hours ago, DXD526 said:

Like Carmela, what Anna might want and what she can realistically have, are two different things.

I don’t think she wants to leave. I think if she wanted an “in house separation” JB would oblige her. Meaning they stay married but she gets financially supported and Josh has to stay in a separate residence, she calls the shots. I think it’s emotionally easier for her to live in this denial rather than admit who her husband is. 

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merylinkid

merylinkid

10 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

But the bottom line is, Anna can't read her own spouse, AND she remains blind to his actions.

This right there scares the hell out of me.   When he gets out, he will go right back to lying to her and she will never realize it.   She won't take precautions around her kids/grandkids.   She certainly would never report any parole violations.   She will be complicit in him remaining a danger to others.

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Meow Mix

Meow Mix

I also don't believe Anna had some New Years resolution to no longer visit the felon.  She was posting sometime last year about marking I think 15 years since she said 'Yes!' and going to visit her 'bestie'.  This woman lives on the koolaid.  I do wonder what the years ahead will bring as the older kids start to leave the nest and people's attention and support starts to wane.  10 years is a long time.

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