Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[lookeyloo]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

I think if Anna started a GoFundMe, she could raise some big bucks to start a new life. But she won’t. 

I am not an Anna fan, but, maybe in her head the world is very scary and unknown to her.  How would she even go about breaking into the mainstream world?  With no skills and 7 children facing a world that has been pushed as unsafe and ungodly.  It is like planting one of us down in a foreign country.  Even if we had money it would all still feel foreign, strange, scary.  She would not know who to trust.  We all say "come with us and we will guide you" but, she doesn't know us, trust us, I am guessing a lot of us would feel the same way in X country and strangers saying "I will help you".  Would we let them?  I would say she got herself into this predicament, but, I think she was groomed for it and convinced she wanted it.  It is a sad and confusing situation.  And, again, I am not her fan and not really defending her, because she does have those children to raise, but, am guessing she just doesn't have enough confidence, skill and resilience (and maybe desire) to break away.  Maybe not yet.

[Cinnabon]

35 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Has anyones YouTube algorithm been giving them video analysis of Josh Duggar and his crimes? I haven’t watched any because we have discussed things here in depth, but I was just wondering. 

No, but I don’t ever watch any of their videos because I don’t want to subsidize their exploitation of their kids. 

[Absolom]

2 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

I think if Anna started a GoFundMe, she could raise some big bucks to start a new life. But she won’t. 

I doubt she'd raise big bucks.  The fundies wouldn't support it because she'd be breaking free.  Some of the online anti-fundies would contribute, but overall she isn't really well known.  

[Scarlett45]

54 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

No, but I don’t ever watch any of their videos because I don’t want to subsidize their exploitation of their kids. 

I don’t quite follow your post.

How is an analysis of Josh and his crimes using info and footage publicly available assisting in the exploitation of children? By children do you mean the Duggar minor children and grandchildren? Sorry I’m being obtuse. 

[Scarlett45]

58 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

I am not an Anna fan, but, maybe in her head the world is very scary and unknown to her.  How would she even go about breaking into the mainstream world?  With no skills and 7 children facing a world that has been pushed as unsafe and ungodly.  It is like planting one of us down in a foreign country.  Even if we had money it would all still feel foreign, strange, scary.  She would not know who to trust.  We all say "come with us and we will guide you" but, she doesn't know us, trust us, I am guessing a lot of us would feel the same way in X country and strangers saying "I will help you".  Would we let them?  I would say she got herself into this predicament, but, I think she was groomed for it and convinced she wanted it.  It is a sad and confusing situation.  And, again, I am not her fan and not really defending her, because she does have those children to raise, but, am guessing she just doesn't have enough confidence, skill and resilience (and maybe desire) to break away.  Maybe not yet.

Realistically I wouldn’t expect Anna to “break away”, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she (in a world where she was the best version of herself) told JB/Michelle that she had done her part in the marriage, but Josh had broken all of his vows, was now a convicted felon and an embarrassment. In exchange for doing her part for the extended family and not spilling things to the media for money, she could be put on the Duggar LLC pay role as a caregiver/tutor etc, and she expected to be provided for- and when Josh got out he wasn’t to reside with her. 

That way she would have her own income, could save, and she would still have the support to get the kids raised and not disrupt their routine too much. 

[Cinnabon]

9 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don’t quite follow your post.

How is an analysis of Josh and his crimes using info and footage publicly available assisting in the exploitation of children? By children do you mean the Duggar minor children and grandchildren? Sorry I’m being obtuse. 

Sorry, I thought you were referring to the algorithm suggesting videos about Josh. I assume that people who frequently click on/watch Duggar and Duggar-adjacent videos  will see more of those suggestions. And yes, I’m referring to Jessa, Joy, Jill etc exploiting their kids for clicks/$$.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Scarlett45]

17 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Sorry, I thought you were referring to the algorithm suggesting videos about Josh. I assume that people who frequently click on/watch Duggar and Duggar-adjacent videos  will see more of those suggestions. And yes, I’m referring to Jessa, Joy, Jill etc exploiting their kids for clicks/$$.

Yes I was talking about the algorithm suggesting videos about Josh! Illuminati whose done ones on MLMs has one about Josh.

But no, I have never watched any of the Duggar YouTube channels (like Jill, Jessa etc)- that’s why I thought it was interesting that the algorithm was sending me analysis of Josh’s crimes. Of course I know the internet knows I come here but yes it was interesting to me and I wondered if the rest of the members here had experienced that. 
 

I watched an analysis of Mark Salling (gLee) and shared that in the gLee thread, so it makes sense I guess. 

[lookeyloo]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Realistically I wouldn’t expect Anna to “break away”, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she (in a world where she was the best version of herself) told JB/Michelle that she had done her part in the marriage, but Josh had broken all of his vows, was now a convicted felon and an embarrassment. In exchange for doing her part for the extended family and not spilling things to the media for money, she could be put on the Duggar LLC pay role as a caregiver/tutor etc, and she expected to be provided for- and when Josh got out he wasn’t to reside with her. 

That way she would have her own income, could save, and she would still have the support to get the kids raised and not disrupt their routine too much. 

That would be a possible scenario. But Anna would have to come around to that way of thinking. Meanwhile she is surrounded by people telling her something else. I think 

[Cinnabon]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes I was talking about the algorithm suggesting videos about Josh! Illuminati whose done ones in MLMs has one about Josh.

But no, I have never watched any of the Duggar YouTube channels (like Jill, Jessa etc)- that’s why I thought it was interesting that the algorithm was sending me analysis of Josh’s crimes. Of course I know the internet knows I come here but yes it was interesting to me and I wondered if the rest of the members here had experienced that. 
 

I watched an analysis of Mark Salling (gLee) and shared that in the gLee thread, so it makes sense I guess. 

That is odd! YouTube is spying on you, lol.

[emmawoodhouse]

33 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

That would be a possible scenario. But Anna would have to come around to that way of thinking. Meanwhile she is surrounded by people telling her something else. I think 

Agreed. Didn't Anna break her silence to post that we didn't know the whole story and that Smuggar was innocent? 

She's swimming in the deep end of the kool-aid pool.

[GeeGolly]

Anna, or anyone in her position really, doesn't have to look to far to find 'facts' that support her position. She could believe Josh is totally innocent and wrongly convicted, or she could believe Josh made a mistake and never even looked at his mistaken download and is paying an overly harsh price for his mistake. Having a Fundy mindset makes it even easier to get there.

I don't think Anna has any motivation to believe anything else - at least not yet. I do think there's a slight chance as time passes she might wake up and realize that Josh is guilty. Or even wake up to the fact that Josh, even if innocent, has disrespected her and their marriage enough times that he's not worth waiting for. I doubt it, but 5+ years is a long time to reflect on what scum the Felon truly is.

[Scarlett45]

10 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Agreed. Didn't Anna break her silence to post that we didn't know the whole story and that Smuggar was innocent? 

She's swimming in the deep end of the kool-aid pool.

Oh yes totally. But that doesn’t surprise me. My theory was that Anna doing a 180 wasn’t likely, but the most likely thing IF she ever wised up was making demands of JB to be supported, not wanting to live with Josh. 
 

Walking away from the Duggar family and living as an “independent woman” isn’t likely with SEVEN children. One child, maybe she would’ve reached out to a sibling (assuming she wanted to get away), but SEVEN? I don’t think so. 

[GeeGolly]

I think another thing that is different with Anna's mindset is her kids. Many of us think they should be protected from Josh, but it seems she doesn't feel the same way. I for one, was shocked the judge allowed the kids to be around him. So if you add that to Anna's big picture, she's not factoring in any need to protect her kids.

Just for the record, I don't think the Felon is a pedophile, but I still wouldn't him around kids.

[Albanyguy]

12 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I do think there's a slight chance as time passes she might wake up and realize that Josh is guilty. Or even wake up to the fact that Josh, even if innocent, has disrespected her and their marriage enough times that he's not worth waiting for. I doubt it, but 5+ years is a long time to reflect on what scum the Felon truly is.

I hope that's the case, but sadly, I think Anna's only long-range plan right now is to wait for Josh to get sprung from prison so she can get pregnant again the day he comes home. For her, the worst that can happen is that she'll have a longer gap than usual between kids.

I think she's still living in denial, clinging to the belief that Josh's conviction will be overturned on appeal or, failing that, he'll be given a very light sentence and be out in a few years. And I doubt if she realizes how different and difficult their life will be when he finally does come home.

 

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

I hope that's the case, but sadly, I think Anna's only long-range plan right now is to wait for Josh to get sprung from prison so she can get pregnant again the day he comes home. For her, the worst that can happen is that she'll have a longer gap than usual between kids.

I think she's still living in denial, clinging to the belief that Josh's conviction will be overturned on appeal or, failing that, he'll be given a very light sentence and be out in a few years. And I doubt if she realizes how different and difficult their life will be when he finally does come home.

 

I agree with this. 

[SusanM]

2 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

I hope that's the case, but sadly, I think Anna's only long-range plan right now is to wait for Josh to get sprung from prison so she can get pregnant again the day he comes home.

Yep.  I think Anna's favourite song going forward is going to be "Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Old Oak Tree".  Whether in her deepest, inner most heart she has actually entertained the notion that Josh not only might be guilty but also is irredeemable, is really a moot point.  Guilty or innocent she's not going anywhere.  She probably does think they'll just pick up where they left off.  

The wild card here isn't Anna, it's Josh.  After 5 (and hopefully more) years in a federal penitentiary he may be the one who says "enough, I don't want that life".  We shall see.

Edited April 10, 2022 by SusanM

[GeeGolly]

25 minutes ago, SusanM said:

Yep.  I think Anna's favourite song going forward is going to be "Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Old Oak Tree".  Whether in her deepest, inner most heart she has actually entertained the notion that Josh not only might be guilty but also is irredeemable, is really a moot point.  Guilty or innocent she's not going anywhere.  She probably does think they'll just pick up where they left off.  

The wild card here isn't Anna, it's Josh.  After 5 (and hopefully more) years in a federal penitentiary he may be the one who says "enough, I don't want that life".  We shall see.

But Anna does 'take the edge off' the Felon's sexual deviancies, so I think initially anyways, he'll fall back into her arms.

Then there will be that pesky money problem. He'll have none and will be essentially unemployable, so he'll need JB. I think JB will take Josh back if Anna leaves. But assuming Anna is still part of the Duggar circle, I don't think JB would take him back if Josh is planning to kick Anna to the curb. The optics would be very bad.

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

But Anna does 'take the edge off' the Felon's sexual deviancies, so I think initially anyways, he'll fall back into her arms.

Then there will be that pesky money problem. He'll have none and will be essentially unemployable, so he'll need JB. I think JB will take Josh back if Anna leaves. But assuming Anna is still part of the Duggar circle, I don't think JB would take him back if Josh is planning to kick Anna to the curb. The optics would be very bad.

That’s true. JB wouldn’t let Josh publicly abandon Anna when he gets out. Josh doesn’t have much of a backbone anyway- but after time in federal prison who knows. 
 

Josh is an awful human who thinks of no one but himself. However I think he does have somewhat typical affection towards Michelle. Being away from your family and community for several years isn’t going to be easy- even for a scum bag like Josh. I have no idea what he will do when he gets out. 
 

I have a friend who’s father went to prison for sex offenses against minors- he’s been out longer than he’s been in, and it’s been a pain point for the entire family (she has nothing to do with him). But yes I see Anna just counting the days until Josh is back home. “Counting On” has an entirely different meaning now. 

[emmawoodhouse]

No way Anna up and leaves. As noted above, she'll be all ready to make M8. Even if she's in her early 40's. Her mother has her last at 44, IIRC, and her sister Esther has had one or two in her 40's. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by emmawoodhouse

[Heathen]

On 4/9/2022 at 6:41 PM, Absolom said:

I doubt she'd raise big bucks.  The fundies wouldn't support it because she'd be breaking free.  Some of the online anti-fundies would contribute, but overall she isn't really well known.  

I think a lot of normal, non-fundie people would decline to donate in case the funds "accidentally" made their way to Smuggar and his defense. 

[Cinnabon]

Will MOTY MEShelle even show up to Josh’s sentencing?

[ozziemom]

31 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Will MOTY MEShelle even show up to Josh’s sentencing?

Since she didn’t go to the trial, probably won’t go to sentencing either. I wonder if Boob decided she wasn’t able to handle it or if she had a say in the decision.

[Cinnabon]

28 minutes ago, ozziemom said:

Since she didn’t go to the trial, probably won’t go to sentencing either. I wonder if Boob decided she wasn’t able to handle it or if she had a say in the decision.

Some MOTY, huh?

[Zella]

I honestly don't blame anyone in the family for not attending his court appearances.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Zella

[floridamom]

Josh will be a completely different person when his sentence is up and returns home, wherever that may be. I don't think Anna will be able to relate to him. She, IMO, will not be changed much as she will stay right where she is and rely on Jim Bob and his "team's" financial guidance/decisions. It will be Josh who has changed. We'll see how this plays out in time.

[Albanyguy]

9 hours ago, Zella said:

I honestly don't blame anyone in the family for not attending his court appearances.

I don't either. But I think Jim Bob will there and that he may bully one or two of the boys into going with him to provide a show of family solidarity.  What I really wonder is, will Anna be there? 

[Westiepeach]

1 hour ago, floridamom said:

Josh will be a completely different person when his sentence is up and returns home, wherever that may be. I don't think Anna will be able to relate to him. She, IMO, will not be changed much as she will stay right where she is and rely on Jim Bob and his "team's" financial guidance/decisions. It will be Josh who has changed. We'll see how this plays out in time.

I have been saying this all along. The FF that walks out of federal prison will definitely not be the same FF that walked in.

[LilJen]

16 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

I have been saying this all along. The FF that walks out of federal prison will definitely not be the same FF that walked in.

Nope. He might be even MORE insufferably smug….☹️

[ginger90]

It’s been discussed many times that the Duggars lack structure. This will be something that prison life will be full of. That’s what I believe will be a huge problem for Josh upon release.

Once sentenced (hopefully) he will have the initial adjustment from having been in county, and being transferred to federal prison.

Edited April 12, 2022 by ginger90

[crazy8s]

1 hour ago, Albanyguy said:

I don't either. But I think Jim Bob will there and that he may bully one or two of the boys into going with him to provide a show of family solidarity.  What I really wonder is, will Anna be there? 

Anna will most likely be there and putting my money on Hilaria to be sitting right next to her to be supportive and then get her pic taken with Anna walking out of the courthouse.

[jacourt]

I really dont think Michelle could handle being in court.  She would just melt into a puddle.

[GeeGolly]

Josh will definitely be a different person when he gets out, but one thing that won't change is his personality disorder. His deviant urges and tendencies will still be there. Prison has a way of giving inmates an unearned confidence in thinking they can control/regulate things like addiction and anomalous impulsive behaviors, when in reality they weren't regulating anything at all - they were locked up. So while prison can humble some folks it can also simultaneously make them cocky.

Personality disorders aren't curable and they're one of the hardest mental health issues to manage. Even with great, competent, consistent treatment, with client buy in, its a tough journey.

The Felon, Anna and the Duggars may think he will walk out a shiny new man, when in reality the part of Josh everyone wants 'fixed' will still be 'broken'.

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Josh will definitely be a different person when he gets out, but one thing that won't change is his personality disorder. His deviant urges and tendencies will still be there. Prison has a way of giving inmates an unearned confidence in thinking they can control/regulate things like addiction and anomalous impulsive behaviors, when in reality they weren't regulating anything at all - they were locked up. So while prison can humble some folks it can also simultaneously make them cocky.

Personality disorders aren't curable and they're one of the hardest mental health issues to manage. Even with great, competent, consistent treatment, with client buy in, its a tough journey.

The Felon, Anna and the Duggars may think he will walk out a shiny new man, when in reality the part of Josh everyone wants 'fixed' will still be 'broken'.

I wonder if he’ll get any kind of therapy or treatment while in prison. Our prisons should be more about rehabilitation than punishment, but they’re certainly not.  And as you said, personality disorders don’t really respond to treatment. 

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Cinnabon said:

I wonder if he’ll get any kind of therapy or treatment while in prison. Our prisons should be more about rehabilitation than punishment, but they’re certainly not.  And as you said, personality disorders don’t really respond to treatment. 

From what I've read, there's no real consistency across jails and prisons in regard to what kind of rehabilitative services they provide. And how successful any of the programs are is another thing all together. Recidivism rates have remained high over time, but in my opinion that has a lot to do with lack of post incarceration support.

[Zella]

5 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

I don't either. But I think Jim Bob will there and that he may bully one or two of the boys into going with him to provide a show of family solidarity.  What I really wonder is, will Anna be there? 

I would be shocked if Anna weren't there, considering her perfect attendance during the trial.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Zella

[Cinnabon]

15 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

From what I've read, there's no real consistency across jails and prisons in regard to what kind of rehabilitative services they provide. And how successful any of the programs are is another thing all together. Recidivism rates have remained high over time, but in my opinion that has a lot to do with lack of post incarceration support.

Yes, it costs taxpayers hundreds a day to house prisoners, but very little money is spent on post incarceration support and thus too many find themselves right back in prison before long. The system is broken. 

10 minutes ago, Zella said:

I would be shocked if Anna weren't there, considering her perfect attendance during the trial.

Don’t some family members usually in speak in support of the defendant at sentencing hearings?

[ginger90]

7 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Don’t some family members usually in speak in support of the defendant at sentencing hearings?

They can. It will be interesting to see if they go that route. It will also be interesting to see if the FF speaks.

[Rootbeer]

23 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

They can. It will be interesting to see if they go that route. It will also be interesting to see if the FF speaks.

If anyone speaks, I expect it will be Anna telling the court about what a marvelous father FF is, how he dotes on the children, how they need his presence, how much they love him.  In other words, lying through her teeth.

[ginger90]

1 minute ago, Rootbeer said:

If anyone speaks, I expect it will be Anna telling the court about what a marvelous father FF is, how he dotes on the children, how they need his presence, how much they love him.  In other words, lying through her teeth.

I agree with that.

I don’t see Josh speaking. The purpose for it would be to show remorse, apologize. That’s not happening, while an appeal is being attempted.

[merylinkid]

2 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

I wonder if he’ll get any kind of therapy or treatment while in prison. Our prisons should be more about rehabilitation than punishment, but they’re certainly not.  And as you said, personality disorders don’t really respond to treatment. 

For therapy to be effective, Josh has to want to change.   He has to want to change how he deals with life.   He was to put in the effort to make the changes and keep making them day after day, even if there are setbacks.

Now based on what we know of Josh, what do you think the odds of that happening are?

It could be the bestest therapy in the world and it will useless without Josh's active cooperation.    not just saying the right things to get whatever benefit that would bring.

[Cinnabon]

4 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

For therapy to be effective, Josh has to want to change.   He has to want to change how he deals with life.   He was to put in the effort to make the changes and keep making them day after day, even if there are setbacks.

Now based on what we know of Josh, what do you think the odds of that happening are?

It could be the bestest therapy in the world and it will useless without Josh's active cooperation.    not just saying the right things to get whatever benefit that would bring.

Oh, I absolutely agree about Josh. But there are millions of others who are able to engage, learn, and try to improve themselves. 

[yogi2014L]

Prison is going to permanently and perhaps catastrophically change Josh. It will be very interesting to see what happens to him upon his release. Assuming he serves 4-5 years- his children will be grown, they will not know him, and what they do know of him they probably aren't going to like ( at least the older ones)

I agree with the previous poster who said he could get out and realize he wants to leave Anna ( which I think is very , very likely) . I don't know if any amount of money Daddy Duggar dangles in front of him could keep him in his warehouse with the kids he doesn't want and a wife he doesn't love. Anna will not go anywhere unless she is forced to. GF is in her own prison too. 

 

[Cinnabon]

1 minute ago, yogi2014L said:

Prison is going to permanently and perhaps catastrophically change Josh. It will be very interesting to see what happens to him upon his release. Assuming he serves 4-5 years- his children will be grown, they will not know him, and what they do know of him they probably aren't going to like ( at least the older ones)

I agree with the previous poster who said he could get out and realize he wants to leave Anna ( which I think is very , very likely) . I don't know if any amount of money Daddy Duggar dangles in front of him could keep him in his warehouse with the kids he doesn't want and a wife he doesn't love. Anna will not go anywhere unless she is forced to. GF is in her own prison too. 

 

He might well be stuck when he gets out. As a country, we don’t provide any real support for post prison transition, and those with felonies on their records are hard pressed to find any work at all, much less work that pays enough to live on. And so those without family to support them end up desperate. 

[Nysha]

24 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

He might well be stuck when he gets out. As a country, we don’t provide any real support for post prison transition, and those with felonies on their records are hard pressed to find any work at all, much less work that pays enough to live on. And so those without family to support them end up desperate. 

I agree, even companies that hire felons generally won't hire sex offenders and few places will rent to one. I think FF with choose an unhappy life with Anna and the kids instead of being penniless and homeless.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Nysha

[Cinnabon]

3 minutes ago, Nysha said:

I agree, even companies that hire felons generally won't hire sex offenders and few places will rent to one. I think FF with choose an unhappy life with Anna and the kids instead of being penniless and homeless.

It’s unfortunate and a huge problem in this country. Felons can’t get jobs, and can’t get any financial assistance (because BAD), so they end up desperate and prey upon others just to survive, then end up incarcerated again and cost the taxpayers millions more than they would with any “welfare” program. And so it’s repeated over and over again. So yes, Josh will likely have to stay with mommy, daddy, and his wife and 7 kids, even if that makes him miserable. And he’s one of the lucky ones.

[emmawoodhouse]

6 hours ago, Zella said:

I would be shocked if Anna weren't there, considering her perfect attendance during the trial.

Except when they showed the CSAM material to the jury. 

[Cinnabon]

Just now, emmawoodhouse said:

Except when they showed the CSAM material to the jury. 

She conveniently left to “breast feed” and avoided hearing the details of what Josh down. Coward.

[GeeGolly]

To me, one comment made years ago about the number of kids and one shrug about news of the next kid doesn't paint the whole picture, so my take is a little different. I think Josh loves Anna and his kids. Accepting that his political dreams were over, I think he was happily settled into wholesaling cars and enjoyed his family. The problem now was/is his pesky personality disorder. His psychopathic tendencies were getting in the way.

If you look at his sexual deviances like alcoholism (its not the same, but indulge me), Josh managed life just fine when he wasn't "drinking". He was liked by most who met him, but when he went on a "bender" everything fell apart.

I don't think the Felon has any plans other than returning to the Duggar compound. I think that's where he is happy and where he thinks he belongs.

[emmawoodhouse]

Is he happy? I think he derives pleasure in manipulating people, including his stupidly gullible wife. He'll be at the mercy of Boob's purse strings. That won't make him happy, as with Boob, money is conditional. 

[GeeGolly]

Just now, emmawoodhouse said:

Is he happy? I think he derives pleasure in manipulating people, including his stupidly gullible wife. He'll be at the mercy of Boob's purse strings. That won't make him happy, as with Boob, money is conditional. 

The mercy of JB's purse strings or broke? He's lucky he has a choice.

And yes, for the most part I think the Felon is as happy as someone with his disorder can be.